Wow, that was unbelievable, it looked cheap from the outside, but when you opened it up it was a whole new world of crap! It reminds me of that quality product from Amstrad, and Lord Sugar got a night hood for his service to the music industry! Good job as always.
A short hint. The two red transport lockings have to be removed, so the sub chassis can swing. You can also remove those screws to take the chassis out of the housing without loosing the screws on the bottom. By the way this record player is still sold. Since a short time by a new Company called Rekkord, but till last year by Dual and Thorens. It is built by Fehrenbacher since the early 90s I think and several Companys sold this model. There is a little model range from the 415 to 455. They are not so bad when you compare them to other models sold in these times. But they are far away from the "Steidinger" Duals, constructed, when Dual was in the hands of family Steidinger. Another hint. Never adjust the motor speed on these little DC-Motors with a non isolated screw driver, because if you touch the adjusting screw and the motor housing in the same time while the power is on, this could damage the motor electronic.
Had a Thorens TD170 in for repair the other day, same machine but a different name on the front. Couldn't believe how bad it was. For whatever reason the auto start and return didn't work, nothing looked damaged or missing but the tone arm just didn't want to move by itself. Didn't proceed further, wasn't worth spending time on.
I have a thorens td165 and it is built like a brick sh1thouse. The problem I have is these giant 15" woofers tend to move alot of air which creates a feedback problem when any volume given.
I happen to be the ?proud? owner of one of these turntables as of yesterday. If anyone is having trouble with the tonearm cueing not working, what I found on mine is that the metal pivot piece that is directly moved by the cueing lever on the top of the unit needs to be removed and the angled piece closest to the front of the turntable needs to be further bent slightly upwards so that it makes better contact with the little plastic cueing lever. The metal piece is (surprise, surprise) very soft and easy to bend so I suspect after many uses it bends too far down and the cueing lever does not make good enough contact with it.
Your opening words The Crossly of Dual made me laugh. I laughed a second time when you opened it up. It looks like Germany is making crap now. The only redeeming feature is it probably doesn't track at 10 grams. I brought out my old reference books from when I was in the trade. It does not list Turntables or Decks. Instead they call the motor units.
You should have retrofitted with the single crystal oxygen free graphene clad conductor RCAs made by Ben-Dover Audio Labs. The staging will be all shot to hell and sweet spot shifted from center to center-right without them.
@@12voltvids It is the nature of an extensive product lineup to also cover the basic entry level and not only the needs of audiophiles. Would you also complain about a Ford not having a champagne cooler while a Bugatti has?
@@12voltvids - That one puzzles me. Is it just that one piece that's made in Germany, or all the rest of it...? But regardless, you can pick just about *any* part of the (first) world even, and find a factory making cheap stuff. Europe / Germany, why not....? It's happening even just right now... We keep pointing at China, only because that's where most of the stuff comes from these days, but just the same thing has been happening everywhere else for many decades already. We are just not as aware of that.
@@750kv8 everyone points at China for making crap and i the you something. They make some of the best electronics you can find. That high tech hand held computer you are likely reading this on, sometimes called a smartphone was likely made in china. Sure they make cheap shit too but they make very high tech devices. Remember they too have sent a rover to mars too. Only the second country to do this.
It gets worse - Thorens sells a few models in it's range which are badge-engineered Dual turntables. The most expensive of which is nearly £1000 and looks very similar to yours. The end is nigh !!
Indeed, for example Thorens TD190-2 looks very similar. Cheet metal chassi and plastic subplatter and platter looks identical. It costs about 480 to 600$ 😢
I'm a bit confused about this video. You say the speed adjustment screw did nothing, but after you attempted to adjust it, the platter ran faster. What gives? Is it possible the adjustment screw did work?
I don't buy the "it must have run slow before because it had sat around unused for years".🤔 That just doesn't happen.🤪 Another technician here remarked that careless use of an all-metal screwdriver to adjust the speed trim pots could create a short-circuit for the motor's internal electronics.😬 OTOH, I wouldn't trust a speed app for a DUMBphone when it would have been alot smarter, quicker, easier AND more accurate to use a strobe disc with a neon or florescent bulb. Remember: DIGITAL SUCKS.🤗 And compared to the technological sophistication of a Rega or Pro-Ject Debut-series TT, the Dual is light-years more complicated, sophisticated, & much better built considering the vastly greater number of precision parts!🧐 Further, whining about the plastic subplatter is just Dave's ignorance about how most Turdtables are made today. All but the very top Regas & Pro-Ject models ALSO use plastic subplatters. Heck, for ≈$450, Rega's entry-level RP(OS)-1 not only has a plastic subplatter, but a plastic platter on top of it as well!🤮 Although I think they may have recently replaced the plastic platter with a 🪵wooden🪵
Well what can you say about that turntable. Probably nothing repeatable on here. Must be so embarrassing for anyone that had any connections with Dual in the past. Nice vid as always.
I've seen (and repaired) several Duals with failed connections to the moulded phono plugs. I usually cut them off and replace with better quality plugs.
The pots on that motor do adjust speeds, very finely, but you need to adjust it with the full weight of the platter in place... Not easy, but it can be done..it sounds like it's on max speed now. I would mark the position of the adjustments on the motor to the bottom of the casework and drill two holes and mark them 33/45. Button it up, then adjust the speeds under load, (playing a familiar L.P. ),,,You're a gent having a go at this for free BTW.
You think this sucks-hold onto your hat! I've seen a couple Thorens, yes THORENS turntables as of late that look almost identical to this...........smdh.......
They are pretty much identical - The Dual badge was removed for a Thorens one and perhaps a couple of tweaks were made at Thorens request. The new Thorens TD-402 Direct Drive is based upon another turntable from China with a couple of Thorens-style knobs added on,
At a certain point, DUAL stopped making products that lived up to their name and instead relied on being able to sell inferior products, through their good name. Unfortunately, they are not alone in this.
Both Dual & Thorens hit rock bottom in harmony with the popularity of Vinyl records. But now that vinyl is back in black, the new products are actually quite good. Period. Too bad that they're priced accordingly as well, & are otherwise indistinguishable from Pro-Ject in terms of sound & build quality.
"For the American market; in 2001, [Chinese] TCL Holdings ... purchased the Dual ... brand, and [sold] its own products [as Dual]. In 2002, [Korean] Namsung Electronics ... [bought the rights the brand] in the Americas and [sells] lower-priced consumer electronics under the Dual marque. [By 1994], Dual was ... split off into Dual Phono GmbH, i.e. the Dual line of turntables, which were acquired by the German company Alfred Fehrenbacher GmbH, which has continued to produce them in the Black Forest town of St. Georgen. Dual turntables Made in Germany are manufactured on the same traditional product line. They are easy to identify with the manufacturing code beginning with CS xxx." --Wikipedia.
At least the base and tone arm appear to be metal. Crosley would have done all that in plastic too. Jokes aside though, this is the thing you get when a previously great name in audio/hifi gets sold to a holding company and just gets dumped on any rubbish product. How do you find the RPM app with accuracy? I found on my Google Pixel 6 (in 2022) that it was inaccurate, sometimes upto 5% off.
At least it's got a pressed metal chassis... 😛 Subplatter is just a big plastic pulley, but I guess the actual platter makes up for it, somewhat... Would be great if companies won't be run by bloody accountants.
@@12voltvids I have a Thorens that is nearly the same. If I remember correctly, those red plastic sliders on the chassis screws are for shipping and need to be removed.
Hi Dave ! What fun your having!! At least your friend's mom will be happy! She might even bake some chocolate chip cookies for you! Lol 😆 Great video, however, thanks 😊
@@12voltvids Sorry, Dave, I know what you're going through on those glorified record players! The wood base is probably made of that fiberboard/particle board material! Anyway, I appreciate all of your videos, looking forward to seeing another one soon! Give the cats some snuggles ! Catch you later !
G'day fella, gotta say it is an insult to Dual. I had a Dual 1019 and it never gave me any grief. But that unit in my opinion is an insult to the Dual brand
And I've got a Dual 701. If anyone put it or the 1019 (or a 1229, or a CS731Q...) back on the market today they wouldn't sell it for less than $10,000 otherwise they wouldn't turn any profit on it, either. For the $500 or so dollars the CS 430 cost(s), it's a heroic design effort for the money & FAR more sophisticated than any other turntables anywhere near its price... unfortunately. At least it doesn't have defective tonearms like the latest Sony budget PO💩 has, nor a screwed-on Audio-Drechnica AT-3600 in a tonearm with a FIXED counterweight, nor Bluetooth 💩, or USB💩, or has a 4" platter & runs on 4 "C" batteries & is called "The Soundburger🍔"...🤮🙄
I use B&O automatic and it has no speed adjustment and no speed visual control. Even when I play record and at the same time clean from dust with micro-felt which should without control slow down the speed it responds and readjusts speed as required .Taking back and speed is steady. It reacts also to needle touch - takes piece of second to adjust plate speed after needle touches ( with it's 1 gram weight ) Exceptional brand works already almost 30 years
@Iain Ogara: if I may, try eBay. There are plenty of vintage Dual turntables available, though some belt drives will need a new belt, and some will need a new “steuerpimpel” which is unique to Dual. If this sounds bad, try Alfred Fehrenbacher. They’re making new TTs that rival the old Duals in quality.
Well it is a small DC motor so there's not going to be much if any magnetic field radiating from that motor. In the days of an AC induction motor yes it needs to be as far away as possible from the pickup but these small DC motors that are completely shielded they're not going to cause any problems.
@@12voltvids I would be willing to bet that if you removed the belt from the turntable, put the platter back on it and picked up the tone arm (to turn the motor on) and manually brought it over to the platter, with the volume turned up on the amplifier, I suspect you would hear some hum or buzz, probably buzz. Even if the motor is a brushless type, which I doubt, I will bet it's not shielded. a metal case by itself does not constitute shielding, It would have to have some Mu metal or something similar inside of it or wrapped around it, and in a turntable this cheap you *know* it won't be shielded. It has also been my experience that Dual tone arm wands are rarely properly grounded because the bearing assembly uses a ton of plastic and any grounding of the armwand is typically accomplished by electrically connecting it to one of the phono cartridge audio-ground pins, which also often cinnects the metal body of the cartridge to the audio ground. Any hum fields that enter the tone arm wand end up modulating at least one channel's audio ground. Pretty much the 1st thing I do when servicing any turntable is check with an ohmmeter that all metal parts of the turntable are electrically connected to the groundwire, and that none of the audio grounds from the phono cartridge are connected to the metal parts or ground wire. This can make a very big difference in lowering hum, buzz and noise. Proper grounding also helps drain static electricity and makes it less likely to jump into the audio signal and cause popping through the speakers.
Even here in Germany, Dual have a certain “reputation”. Pre-1990 they made some okay mid/low-range stuff but they went bankrupt and the naming rights were bought by another company who rebadge cheap Chinesium. That mechanism is used by a number of manufacturers www.mediamarkt.de/de/search.html?query=plattenspieler&t=1623651260527&user_input=Platte&query_from_suggest=true
Actually, Dual had its prime during the 70s. They made some pretty good cassette decks, reel-to-reel machines and turntables. Also, their amps weren't that bad either.
Yep, likely this is the motor unit is from Hanpen, which got the design from Japan when they sold off their designs when many of the turntable manufacturers quit making tables 30-35 years ago. I had a low end Kenwood semi auto, but the design was completely different that this unit here, the motor, looking to be similar, servo driven, but had a frequency driven speed change, had the motor at 9:00. Decent unit when made in 1985, but it was not a fine table by any means back then.
@@johnhpalmer6098 Hanpin can do quality as well. Most of their Super OEMs are really decent decks, like the Pioneer PLX-1000, the Reloop RP-7000 and the Audio Technica LP140. But Hanpin can do cheap and crappy as well. Also, the highly-acclaimed Fluance decks are made in China as well.
@@svenschwingel8632 Yep, and why I don't find them all that special, even though they are decently made, just not in Canada as they may be trying to get people to believe, but really OEMed and from Asia.
buy vintage equipment - don't buy new stuff. i had a technics single-play turntable from the 80s that would kick the crap out of this chinesium piece of junk. if i had spent a few more bucks, i could have gotten the one with the pitch control.
@@12voltvids Is it too hard to understand that you're not dealing with a top of the line product here? Your unsubstantial rant is embarrassing and says a lot more about you than about the turntable or this "german engineering" which evidently seems to be half of your dictionary.
@@PzAufklLehrBtl3 it was certainly sold at dual prices. And no I am not a fan of German engineering due to experience and expense of their shitty cars.
@@12voltvids I am lucky enough to own a Thorens TD 150 Mark 2 made in 1972 and it works well and looks really good. It's nice when you find something that's built to last.
@@12voltvids "made in germany, inspired by chinese slave labor." if we ever randomly meet, i'll buy you a large canadian beverage of your choice, whether it be a litre, a hectare, a metric shit ton, or however you measure liquids in the great white north. you're a good man. i've learned a lot from you. many thanks - the world is a better place because you are in it.
Plastic subplatters are nothing new for "Dual"; they were using 'em decades ago for some models. There are other, much better, budget-audiophile, manual turntables that use plastic subplatters, such as Rega and Systemdek, but those are more ridgid and have better bearings and heavy glass outer platters.
Plus, they often (they being Rega and Systemdeck) will have used phenolic resin instead of some cheaper plastic too. Speaking of, I own the Rega P6, it's got an all machined aluminum sub platter.
My $4000 Michell Gyrodec uses a wall-wart. My Thorens TD-320 (≈$1000 30yrs. ago) uses a wall-wart. Neither of these 2 turntables are pieces of junk, not by ANY stretch of the imagination. Both use very high quality Papst AC motors. And I'm sure that there are plenty more high-quality turntables that all run on low voltages at current draws very well accomodated by a humble wall-wart. Removing a source of undesirable EMI & low-level vibration from anywhere near the turntable chassis is alot smarter than stuffing it inside the turntable chassis.
@@12voltvids You might be unpleasantly surprised... Too many folks have this completely misguided notion that the loss of frequency response & overall sensitivity to volume that occurs with age or "misfortune" results in the inability to discern sound quality. Nothing could be further from the truth! And to suggest that someone loses their ability to discern pitch (speed errors) because of hearing loss is just plain stupid, frankly... When you're 100 years old, if you live that long, you'll still very much be able to tell when that car, train, or aeroplane is moving either towards
@@joerosen5464 here is someone in denial about age related hearing loss. Just why do you think the first generation CDs sounded so bad? The master engineers were all old and couldn't hear the difference. Just like all those idiots that thing vinyl sounds better. I'm the first to admit that my hearing isn't as good now as it was when i was 15. It's still good but nothing like it used to be.
Doesn't it have an AC synchronous motor? The motor speed is dependent on the accuracy of your 60Hz line frequency which can vary throughout the day but average 60Hz over a 24 hour period, but the variation is tiny. I suspect your problem is the "RPM meter" app. which we don't know which sensor they're using and how the measurement is made, but likely it's an approximation at best.
@@Saab95AeroEstate anything that oscillates as this belt is clearly doing will be transmitted through to the platter and be picked up by the pickup. You clearly have never used a turntable. You can also get feedback from the speakers resonating through the cover and into the base.
@@12voltvids The oscillating will show as flutter (uneven speed). You will have rumble if you use a new belt and a direct drive TT. No, never owned a TT (just for 20 years). And I've been working in the HiFi business for 25+ years. Oh, and everybody else will agree with me. 😆
@@Saab95AeroEstate Negative. The flapping belt will cause noise not much flutter. Turntables suffer more from wow then flutter due to the slow rotation speed and inertia of the platter. That fluttering belt will cause vibration on the platter which will appear as rumble. Rim (idler) have the highest rumble and direct drive the lowest.
A true professional uses a strobe disc & fluorescent lamp or neon bulb. Phone Apps are for sissies. NOTHING Digital works properly from one second to the next, & free vapourware from the Google Play Store is everything it says on the tin...
Really awful quality. Most German companies were bought up by Chines ones and are now producing garbage in the name of reputable brands. One of them is AEG.
I have seen quite a few things that had the crossley name, all were utter crap!!. It's like Grundig, Once a good quality company untill they were bankrupt. Then some Asshole bought just the name and stuck it on every bit of crap made :-( What an insult to a respected name. :-(
@Taco My dad had a 71 and when i was driving it when I was 16 in 79 it started accelerating by itself. I had to ride the brakes all the way home as i had no idea what was going on other than then I tried to push that damper closed it was still running at a very high rate. The car consumed constant engine oil from the time the car had 50000 miles on it. 2 quarts of engine oil with every tank of diesel. He had an older one before and it has a built in smoke screen too.
@@12voltvids I've only owned one German car in my life, & that was enough to get any further urges out of my system. It was a 1987 BMW 5-speed 535i. A VERY nice car! ...too drive. To own, not so much. The engine was unburstable. It ran very nicely on 87 RON. It had lousy fuel economy for its engine & the vehicle size, never mind its very good but hardly exceptional 180hp & a 5-speed manual gearbox. Then again, it also had a lousy EPA rated economy; which it met with German precision: 22mpg HWY. The handling was amazing! Too bad the grip wasn't, although oversteering it with the throttle was very precise & lots of fun. Doing a 270° spin at 25mph on an icy road without a hint of warning, despite winter tires on all 4 corners, not so much. Also, it had a 🤬 steering box instead of rack & pinion, & there was ALWAYS some play in it!🙄 It was both luxurious & sporty, very comfortable & quite quick. But not fast...It had an absolutely brilliant climate control setup with 3 sliders. One for defrost, one for the vents, & another for the floor. Loved it!...until the stupid crappy Bosch module failed & left me to freeze in winter until I coughed up the $1500 to replace the little tin box. The car felt "tight" & extremely well put together. It was. And its corrosion resistance was excellent as well. Good steel! And the trim looked great, too. Until it fell off. The doors, the dash, & soon enough I had big ugly self-tapping screws holding the entire interior together! This on a car that cost as much as a Corvette??? But THE WORST were the electricals! Good grief but I could NEVER get all the headlights working at the same time, the high beams & turn signal switch fell apart in my hands one day, one or another brake light was always going out (& it wasn't the bulbs!), & you couldn't bump start it when the battery was weak, unlike every single other manual gearbox car I ever owned. Thank you, Bosch Motronic fuel injection! I couldn't rely on it as a daily driver, & after a few years got tired of chasing down the daily intermittent electrical fault. So I got rid of it at the point where it was spending as much time in my garage as it did at the Dealer's. What's the German word for "Jaguar"?🤔
What a pile of c**p, and here is me thinking their normal record decks were c**p! That really is low quality! My mother bought a cheap rubbish stereo (just to play records, no interest in hi-fi or stereo) and it had a better quality turntable that that and it was mode of horrible white plastic. At least it had a metal turntable below the rubber mat!!!!
Are you blind? Perhaps you need stronger glasses. It has made in Germany stamped all over it. The Chinese are a proud bunch. They would never stamp made in Germany on their products no more than the Germans would stamp made in china on their stuff.
@@ashbashbaby2 keep telling yourself that. Have you owned one of their shitty cars lately? A buddy used to believe in MB till it just about bankrupted him keeping it running. Bought a jokeswagon and is regretting that one too.
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A Dual in name only...the end of another fine company.
Today a 'true' Dual would be made by the German company Alfred Fehrenbacher GmbH.
DUAL is since 1993 (last German Manufacturing closed) Chinese stuff. Only the Name stands for Quality.
Dual went bankrupt in 1982
Wow, that was unbelievable, it looked cheap from the outside, but when you opened it up it was a whole new world of crap! It reminds me of that quality product from Amstrad, and Lord Sugar got a night hood for his service to the music industry! Good job as always.
A short hint. The two red transport lockings have to be removed, so the sub chassis can swing. You can also remove those screws to take the chassis out of the housing without loosing the screws on the bottom. By the way this record player is still sold. Since a short time by a new Company called Rekkord, but till last year by Dual and Thorens. It is built by Fehrenbacher since the early 90s I think and several Companys sold this model. There is a little model range from the 415 to 455. They are not so bad when you compare them to other models sold in these times. But they are far away from the "Steidinger" Duals, constructed, when Dual was in the hands of family Steidinger.
Another hint. Never adjust the motor speed on these little DC-Motors with a non isolated screw driver, because if you touch the adjusting screw and the motor housing in the same time while the power is on, this could damage the motor electronic.
Wish I read your comments before I started messing with mine :)
the founders of dual back in the 60s must be turning in there graves at the quality of this product
Had a Thorens TD170 in for repair the other day, same machine but a different name on the front. Couldn't believe how bad it was.
For whatever reason the auto start and return didn't work, nothing looked damaged or missing but the tone arm just didn't want to move by itself. Didn't proceed further, wasn't worth spending time on.
I have a thorens td165 and it is built like a brick sh1thouse. The problem I have is these giant 15" woofers tend to move alot of air which creates a feedback problem when any volume given.
@@12voltvids I have a cute little Thorens TD-150 mk 2 with the Kugel arm and I love it.
And I thought my rare Scott PS-76 was bad, it blows this out of the ocean.
Dual has been using that design since the mid 1980s on more budget oriented tables. I service a lot of them and they are reliable and sound good.
I wouldn't say that they're not reliable not at all they just look cheap
@@12voltvids Well, they're definitely not a 1225...
Sound good, 😂😢😅
"It doesn't hum anymore". It must have just remembered the words.
lmao
One thing it's got on crosley is I didn't see any hot glue lol
I actually bought one of those new in 1989, thought it was crap. Took it back and paid the extra for a Dual 505-3.
I happen to be the ?proud? owner of one of these turntables as of yesterday.
If anyone is having trouble with the tonearm cueing not working, what I found on mine is that the metal pivot piece that is directly moved by the cueing lever on the top of the unit needs to be removed and the angled piece closest to the front of the turntable needs to be further bent slightly upwards so that it makes better contact with the little plastic cueing lever.
The metal piece is (surprise, surprise) very soft and easy to bend so I suspect after many uses it bends too far down and the cueing lever does not make good enough contact with it.
Your opening words The Crossly of Dual made me laugh. I laughed a second time when you opened it up.
It looks like Germany is making crap now.
The only redeeming feature is it probably doesn't track at 10 grams.
I brought out my old reference books from when I was in the trade.
It does not list Turntables or Decks. Instead they call the motor units.
You should have retrofitted with the single crystal oxygen free graphene clad conductor RCAs made by Ben-Dover Audio Labs. The staging will be all shot to hell and sweet spot shifted from center to center-right without them.
I'd buy that for a dollar.
Hi,, ☺️☺️ watching right now sir, thnx for sharing.. 👍👍
It looks like a classic case of brand name misuse. You see this a lot these days. Old prestigious brand names being used on cheap Chinese crap.
Says made in Germany on it, not made in china.
@@12voltvids It is the nature of an extensive product lineup to also cover the basic entry level and not only the needs of audiophiles. Would you also complain about a Ford not having a champagne cooler while a Bugatti has?
@@12voltvids - That one puzzles me. Is it just that one piece that's made in Germany, or all the rest of it...? But regardless, you can pick just about *any* part of the (first) world even, and find a factory making cheap stuff. Europe / Germany, why not....? It's happening even just right now...
We keep pointing at China, only because that's where most of the stuff comes from these days, but just the same thing has been happening everywhere else for many decades already. We are just not as aware of that.
@@750kv8 everyone points at China for making crap and i the you something. They make some of the best electronics you can find. That high tech hand held computer you are likely reading this on, sometimes called a smartphone was likely made in china. Sure they make cheap shit too but they make very high tech devices. Remember they too have sent a rover to mars too. Only the second country to do this.
@@12voltvids - Third as the Soviets did that before as well (Lunokhod program). But yea.
Sadly I don't have any handheld device.
It gets worse - Thorens sells a few models in it's range which are badge-engineered Dual turntables. The most expensive of which is nearly £1000 and looks very similar to yours. The end is nigh !!
Indeed, for example Thorens TD190-2 looks very similar. Cheet metal chassi and plastic subplatter and platter looks identical. It costs about 480 to 600$ 😢
I'm a bit confused about this video. You say the speed adjustment screw did nothing, but after you attempted to adjust it, the platter ran faster. What gives? Is it possible the adjustment screw did work?
I don't buy the "it must have run slow before because it had sat around unused for years".🤔 That just doesn't happen.🤪
Another technician here remarked that careless use of an all-metal screwdriver to adjust the speed trim pots could create a short-circuit for the motor's internal electronics.😬
OTOH, I wouldn't trust a speed app for a DUMBphone when it would have been alot smarter, quicker, easier AND more accurate to use a strobe disc with a neon or florescent bulb.
Remember: DIGITAL SUCKS.🤗
And compared to the technological sophistication of a Rega or Pro-Ject Debut-series TT, the Dual is light-years more complicated, sophisticated, & much better built considering the vastly greater number of precision parts!🧐
Further, whining about the plastic subplatter is just Dave's ignorance about how most Turdtables are made today. All but the very top Regas & Pro-Ject models ALSO use plastic subplatters. Heck, for ≈$450, Rega's entry-level RP(OS)-1 not only has a plastic subplatter, but a plastic platter on top of it as well!🤮
Although I think they may have recently replaced the plastic platter with a 🪵wooden🪵
Auto-return? It should be Auto-returned to the store or online dealer from whence it came.....
Well what can you say about that turntable. Probably nothing repeatable on here. Must be so embarrassing for anyone that had any connections with Dual in the past. Nice vid as always.
I've got a Techniques SL-1200MK2 that I internally grounded (no ground wire now) and it has zero humm.
Don't try using it with a balanced-mode phono preamp!😬
@@joerosen5464 And why is that?
why would a loss of ground in your cable result in an AC hum, instead of a loss of the entire signal?
EMF entering the non shielded signal path at the point where the braided ground that surrounds it has failed.
You do lose the entire signal! That's why all you hear is HUMMMMMM as the positive lead(s) act as a very nice EMF antenna 📡.
I've seen (and repaired) several Duals with failed connections to the moulded phono plugs. I usually cut them off and replace with better quality plugs.
The pots on that motor do adjust speeds, very finely, but you need to adjust it with the full weight of the platter in place... Not easy, but it can be done..it sounds like it's on max speed now. I would mark the position of the adjustments on the motor to the bottom of the casework and drill two holes and mark them 33/45. Button it up, then adjust the speeds under load, (playing a familiar L.P. ),,,You're a gent having a go at this for free BTW.
It belongs to a 90 year old. I doubt she will notice the slight speed error
@@12voltvids It might make them feel younger. Hahaha 😂. 💜
@@JD-lk7im Or like they own a Rega. Especially with the White Belt "upgrade"!🐌💨
You think this sucks-hold onto your hat! I've seen a couple Thorens, yes THORENS turntables as of late that look almost identical to this...........smdh.......
They are pretty much identical - The Dual badge was removed for a Thorens one and perhaps a couple of tweaks were made at Thorens request. The new Thorens TD-402 Direct Drive is based upon another turntable from China with a couple of Thorens-style knobs added on,
Oh and dave the shipping locks are still in place! Did you notice!
yup, the two red plastic things.
At a certain point, DUAL stopped making products that lived up to their name and instead relied on being able to sell inferior products, through their good name. Unfortunately, they are not alone in this.
Most of the "classic" hifi brand names from the 70s and 80s are now owned by low-grade wun-hung-lo box-shifters :(
Both Dual & Thorens hit rock bottom in harmony with the popularity of Vinyl records. But now that vinyl is back in black, the new products are actually quite good. Period.
Too bad that they're priced accordingly as well, & are otherwise indistinguishable from Pro-Ject in terms of sound & build quality.
Wow, Dual in name only.
Nice bit of "Focus."
Camera was in Focus too.
"For the American market; in 2001, [Chinese] TCL Holdings ... purchased the Dual ... brand, and [sold] its own products [as Dual]. In 2002, [Korean] Namsung Electronics ... [bought the rights the brand] in the Americas and [sells] lower-priced consumer electronics under the Dual marque.
[By 1994], Dual was ... split off into Dual Phono GmbH, i.e. the Dual line of turntables, which were acquired by the German company Alfred Fehrenbacher GmbH, which has continued to produce them in the Black Forest town of St. Georgen. Dual turntables Made in Germany are manufactured on the same traditional product line. They are easy to identify with the manufacturing code beginning with CS xxx." --Wikipedia.
Not all German things are that brilliant like some of their cars that they manufacture just don't seem to last like they used to.
LOL at least they give you a THICK piece of particle board. None of that hollow 3/8". Unless that is 3/8"...
At least the base and tone arm appear to be metal. Crosley would have done all that in plastic too.
Jokes aside though, this is the thing you get when a previously great name in audio/hifi gets sold to a holding company and just gets dumped on any rubbish product.
How do you find the RPM app with accuracy? I found on my Google Pixel 6 (in 2022) that it was inaccurate, sometimes upto 5% off.
Yep, If "Crosley" made turn tables 20 - 25 years ago, I reckon it would look just like this.
At least it's got a pressed metal chassis... 😛
Subplatter is just a big plastic pulley, but I guess the actual platter makes up for it, somewhat...
Would be great if companies won't be run by bloody accountants.
It is a shame that Dual went to hell with that junk. Its the way of the times Dave
The latest & current products are MUCH better. Therefore, they're also MUCH more expensive.
There's no such thing as a free lunch...
I'm pretty sure that's a rebadged Thorens.
I thought that looked familiar.
A fair number of Thorens present range are built by Dual - expensive crap !!
@@12voltvids I have a Thorens that is nearly the same. If I remember correctly, those red plastic sliders on the chassis screws are for shipping and need to be removed.
Hi Dave ! What fun your having!! At least your friend's mom will be happy! She might even bake some chocolate chip cookies for you! Lol 😆 Great video, however, thanks 😊
Fun? Nevermind..
@@12voltvids Sorry, Dave, I know what you're going through on those glorified record players! The wood base is probably made of that fiberboard/particle board material! Anyway, I appreciate all of your videos, looking forward to seeing another one soon! Give the cats some snuggles ! Catch you later !
@@b.powell3480Glorified cardboard
A heroic effort for a crappy turntable.
G'day fella, gotta say it is an insult to Dual. I had a Dual 1019 and it never gave me any grief. But that unit in my opinion is an insult to the Dual brand
Quite the opposite, it is an insult *from* the Dual brand.
And I've got a Dual 701. If anyone put it or the 1019 (or a 1229, or a CS731Q...) back on the market today they wouldn't sell it for less than $10,000 otherwise they wouldn't turn any profit on it, either.
For the $500 or so dollars the CS 430 cost(s), it's a heroic design effort for the money & FAR more sophisticated than any other turntables anywhere near its price... unfortunately.
At least it doesn't have defective tonearms like the latest Sony budget PO💩 has, nor a screwed-on Audio-Drechnica AT-3600 in a tonearm with a FIXED counterweight, nor Bluetooth 💩, or USB💩, or has a 4" platter & runs on 4 "C" batteries & is called "The Soundburger🍔"...🤮🙄
Maybe Bryan (aka Radiotvphononut) deserves it.
"German Engineering"? Which German, Colonel Klink?
No, engineered by Sargeant Schultz, who knows "Nossing, Nossing"....
If you ask me, any turntable with no user speed calibration- unless it has stellar quartz controlled speed- is not worth buying.
I use B&O automatic and it has no speed adjustment and no speed visual control. Even when I play record and at the same time clean from dust with micro-felt which should without control slow down the speed it responds and readjusts speed as required .Taking back and speed is steady. It reacts also to needle touch - takes piece of second to adjust plate speed after needle touches ( with it's 1 gram weight ) Exceptional brand works already almost 30 years
@@Mikexception And there's a cheap Matsushita 12VDC motor in it, too!🤣🤣🤣
@@joerosen5464 . I never have seen such in east gear - thanks for clarification. . By way may be you also know the type of that my turntable?
How shite is that turnable there not cheap always wanted one not now I've seen the insides of it
Thorens sell an auto-return Dual model which sells for nearly £1000 - absolute crap !!
@Iain Ogara: if I may, try eBay. There are plenty of vintage Dual turntables available, though some belt drives will need a new belt, and some will need a new “steuerpimpel” which is unique to Dual. If this sounds bad, try Alfred Fehrenbacher. They’re making new TTs that rival the old Duals in quality.
The motor location is completely wrong ---- hum fields right next to the path of the arm and cartridge. Never seen such a thing before!
Well it is a small DC motor so there's not going to be much if any magnetic field radiating from that motor. In the days of an AC induction motor yes it needs to be as far away as possible from the pickup but these small DC motors that are completely shielded they're not going to cause any problems.
@@12voltvids I would be willing to bet that if you removed the belt from the turntable, put the platter back on it and picked up the tone arm (to turn the motor on) and manually brought it over to the platter, with the volume turned up on the amplifier, I suspect you would hear some hum or buzz, probably buzz. Even if the motor is a brushless type, which I doubt, I will bet it's not shielded. a metal case by itself does not constitute shielding, It would have to have some Mu metal or something similar inside of it or wrapped around it, and in a turntable this cheap you *know* it won't be shielded.
It has also been my experience that Dual tone arm wands are rarely properly grounded because the bearing assembly uses a ton of plastic and any grounding of the armwand is typically accomplished by electrically connecting it to one of the phono cartridge audio-ground pins, which also often cinnects the metal body of the cartridge to the audio ground. Any hum fields that enter the tone arm wand end up modulating at least one channel's audio ground.
Pretty much the 1st thing I do when servicing any turntable is check with an ohmmeter that all metal parts of the turntable are electrically connected to the groundwire, and that none of the audio grounds from the phono cartridge are connected to the metal parts or ground wire. This can make a very big difference in lowering hum, buzz and noise. Proper grounding also helps drain static electricity and makes it less likely to jump into the audio signal and cause popping through the speakers.
Even here in Germany, Dual have a certain “reputation”. Pre-1990 they made some okay mid/low-range stuff but they went bankrupt and the naming rights were bought by another company who rebadge cheap Chinesium. That mechanism is used by a number of manufacturers www.mediamarkt.de/de/search.html?query=plattenspieler&t=1623651260527&user_input=Platte&query_from_suggest=true
Actually, Dual had its prime during the 70s. They made some pretty good cassette decks, reel-to-reel machines and turntables. Also, their amps weren't that bad either.
Dual isn't the only German brand that has this fate. :/
Yep, likely this is the motor unit is from Hanpen, which got the design from Japan when they sold off their designs when many of the turntable manufacturers quit making tables 30-35 years ago.
I had a low end Kenwood semi auto, but the design was completely different that this unit here, the motor, looking to be similar, servo driven, but had a frequency driven speed change, had the motor at 9:00. Decent unit when made in 1985, but it was not a fine table by any means back then.
@@johnhpalmer6098 Hanpin can do quality as well. Most of their Super OEMs are really decent decks, like the Pioneer PLX-1000, the Reloop RP-7000 and the Audio Technica LP140. But Hanpin can do cheap and crappy as well.
Also, the highly-acclaimed Fluance decks are made in China as well.
@@svenschwingel8632 Yep, and why I don't find them all that special, even though they are decently made, just not in Canada as they may be trying to get people to believe, but really OEMed and from Asia.
Their reference series are srill made in Germany, rest is made in China
the lightweight platter would have been justified if the unit had been direct drive, it is not very nice on a belt turntable
Is there anything nice about this thing. Those cheap ion usb turntables probably sound better.
@@12voltvids Or not. I'll go with "NOT!"...
buy vintage equipment - don't buy new stuff. i had a technics single-play turntable from the 80s that would kick the crap out of this chinesium piece of junk. if i had spent a few more bucks, i could have gotten the one with the pitch control.
But,but,but it says Made in Germany all over it. On the front, on the back, stamped to the metal chassis!
@@12voltvids Is it too hard to understand that you're not dealing with a top of the line product here? Your unsubstantial rant is embarrassing and says a lot more about you than about the turntable or this "german engineering" which evidently seems to be half of your dictionary.
@@PzAufklLehrBtl3 it was certainly sold at dual prices. And no I am not a fan of German engineering due to experience and expense of their shitty cars.
@@12voltvids I am lucky enough to own a Thorens TD 150 Mark 2 made in 1972 and it works well and looks really good. It's nice when you find something that's built to last.
@@12voltvids "made in germany, inspired by chinese slave labor." if we ever randomly meet, i'll buy you a large canadian beverage of your choice, whether it be a litre, a hectare, a metric shit ton, or however you measure liquids in the great white north. you're a good man. i've learned a lot from you. many thanks - the world is a better place because you are in it.
Plastic subplatters are nothing new for "Dual"; they were using 'em decades ago for some models. There are other, much better, budget-audiophile, manual turntables that use plastic subplatters, such as Rega and Systemdek, but those are more ridgid and have better bearings and heavy glass outer platters.
Plus, they often (they being Rega and Systemdeck) will have used phenolic resin instead of some cheaper plastic too. Speaking of, I own the Rega P6, it's got an all machined aluminum sub platter.
My thorens has a plastic sub platter but the main one weighs about 5 lbs. This one weighs perhaps 1/2 lb.
Why 'you guys'? There's only one of me.
Not even close to a 1219 or 1229 lol.
Or a 505.
First clue of high quality is a wall wart for a power supply...NOT!
Lol. At least if you are going to cheap out and put a small tape recorder type DC motor inside at least hide the power transformer in the cabinet.
My $4000 Michell Gyrodec uses a wall-wart. My Thorens TD-320 (≈$1000 30yrs. ago) uses a wall-wart. Neither of these 2 turntables are pieces of junk, not by ANY stretch of the imagination. Both use very high quality Papst AC motors. And I'm sure that there are plenty more high-quality turntables that all run on low voltages at current draws very well accomodated by a humble wall-wart.
Removing a source of undesirable EMI & low-level vibration from anywhere near the turntable chassis is alot smarter than stuffing it inside the turntable chassis.
Can't maintain speed, can't adjust pitch. I would just toss it.
Well considering that a senior citizen will be using it a highly doubt she will hear the difference.
@@12voltvids You might be unpleasantly surprised...
Too many folks have this completely misguided notion that the loss of frequency response & overall sensitivity to volume that occurs with age or "misfortune" results in the inability to discern sound quality. Nothing could be further from the truth!
And to suggest that someone loses their ability to discern pitch (speed errors) because of hearing loss is just plain stupid, frankly...
When you're 100 years old, if you live that long, you'll still very much be able to tell when that car, train, or aeroplane is moving either towards
...or away from you!
@@joerosen5464 here is someone in denial about age related hearing loss. Just why do you think the first generation CDs sounded so bad? The master engineers were all old and couldn't hear the difference. Just like all those idiots that thing vinyl sounds better. I'm the first to admit that my hearing isn't as good now as it was when i was 15. It's still good but nothing like it used to be.
Doesn't it have an AC synchronous motor? The motor speed is dependent on the accuracy of your 60Hz line frequency which can vary throughout the day but average 60Hz over a 24 hour period, but the variation is tiny.
I suspect your problem is the "RPM meter" app. which we don't know which sensor they're using and how the measurement is made, but likely it's an approximation at best.
No. It uses a tiny DC motor operated from 12 volts DC.
Perhaps I'm showing my age, but Crosley electronic products really aren't what they used to be!!
Neither are Dual, by the look of things :(
That's true. They're only a name owned by another company now.
Crosley is pronounced Crozley. Not Crossley.
It's Crosley, no z in there.
@@12voltvids Techneeks and Sodder do my head in !!
"Belt causing Rumble"?! Sat what?!
The belt has absolutely nothing to do with Rumble!
Flutter on the other hand.... 😉
I beg to differ, a belt that is oscillating as this one is, on such a light platter will definately induce rumble.
@@12voltvids - As Rumble is noise being picked up , by the pickup, no, it's not Rumble from the belt.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumble_(noise)
@@Saab95AeroEstate anything that oscillates as this belt is clearly doing will be transmitted through to the platter and be picked up by the pickup. You clearly have never used a turntable. You can also get feedback from the speakers resonating through the cover and into the base.
@@12voltvids The oscillating will show as flutter (uneven speed).
You will have rumble if you use a new belt and a direct drive TT.
No, never owned a TT (just for 20 years). And I've been working in the HiFi business for 25+ years.
Oh, and everybody else will agree with me. 😆
@@Saab95AeroEstate
Negative. The flapping belt will cause noise not much flutter. Turntables suffer more from wow then flutter due to the slow rotation speed and inertia of the platter. That fluttering belt will cause vibration on the platter which will appear as rumble. Rim (idler) have the highest rumble and direct drive the lowest.
What a heap.... Is there any HiFi brands left that haven't sold their souls to the devil?
Aparantly not.
Accuphase, Technics, Yamaha, Audio-Technica, Ortofon, Shure, Rotel, Monitor Audio, QUAD, SME, B&W, KEF, Magneplanar, Audio Research, Linn, JL, Goldmund, McIntosh...
You have to wonder how bad the wow and flutter readings would be ?!?
It was showing right there on my phone.
@@12voltvids I thought that was your phone fluctuating because it wasn't centered on the platter.
@@chriscutress1702 Positioning was good enough tbh.
A true professional uses a strobe disc & fluorescent lamp or neon bulb.
Phone Apps are for sissies. NOTHING Digital works properly from one second to the next, & free vapourware from the Google Play Store is everything it says on the tin...
Dual is crossley nowdays. Cheap junk. Just like philips. They don’t have the same standard anymore.
Yes ! Thorens have gone down the toilet as well. Turntables from China and rebranded Duals are the norm.
put some rca's on the back
More cheap junk!
Really awful quality. Most German companies were bought up by Chines ones and are now producing garbage in the name of reputable brands. One of them is AEG.
I have seen quite a few things that had the crossley name, all were utter crap!!.
It's like Grundig, Once a good quality company untill they were bankrupt.
Then some Asshole bought just the name and stuck it on every bit of crap made :-(
What an insult to a respected name. :-(
Ill send you $7.23 to clean the Focus Record.
Cleaning won't remove the scratches.
Who said anything about removing the scratches?🤨
Whoever sees such a video does not learn because it is shown unprofessionally i am
sorry
German Engineering, Particle board and a rubber band. What a piece of garbage. NO don't bother with speed adjustment...
Their cars are as bad. My dad had German cars, and cursed them.
@@12voltvids For decent speed stability, keep it turned off ! hehehe
@Taco
My dad had a 71 and when i was driving it when I was 16 in 79 it started accelerating by itself. I had to ride the brakes all the way home as i had no idea what was going on other than then I tried to push that damper closed it was still running at a very high rate. The car consumed constant engine oil from the time the car had 50000 miles on it. 2 quarts of engine oil with every tank of diesel. He had an older one before and it has a built in smoke screen too.
@@12voltvids I've only owned one German car in my life, & that was enough to get any further urges out of my system. It was a 1987 BMW 5-speed 535i. A VERY nice car! ...too drive. To own, not so much. The engine was unburstable.
It ran very nicely on 87 RON. It had lousy fuel economy for its engine & the vehicle size, never mind its very good but hardly exceptional 180hp & a 5-speed manual gearbox. Then again, it also had a lousy EPA rated economy; which it met with German precision: 22mpg HWY.
The handling was amazing! Too bad the grip wasn't, although oversteering it with the throttle was very precise & lots of fun. Doing a 270° spin at 25mph on an icy road without a hint of warning, despite winter tires on all 4 corners, not so much. Also, it had a 🤬 steering box instead of rack & pinion, & there was ALWAYS some play in it!🙄
It was both luxurious & sporty, very comfortable & quite quick. But not fast...It had an absolutely brilliant climate control setup with 3 sliders. One for defrost, one for the vents, & another for the floor. Loved it!...until the stupid crappy Bosch module failed & left me to freeze in winter until I coughed up the $1500 to replace the little tin box.
The car felt "tight" & extremely well put together. It was. And its corrosion resistance was excellent as well. Good steel!
And the trim looked great, too. Until it fell off. The doors, the dash, & soon enough I had big ugly self-tapping screws holding the entire interior together! This on a car that cost as much as a Corvette???
But THE WORST were the electricals! Good grief but I could NEVER get all the headlights working at the same time, the high beams & turn signal switch fell apart in my hands one day, one or another brake light was always going out (& it wasn't the bulbs!), & you couldn't bump start it when the battery was weak, unlike every single other manual gearbox car I ever owned. Thank you, Bosch Motronic fuel injection!
I couldn't rely on it as a daily driver, & after a few years got tired of chasing down the daily intermittent electrical fault. So I got rid of it at the point where it was spending as much time in my garage as it did at the Dealer's.
What's the German word for "Jaguar"?🤔
@@joerosen5464 BMW - Bring Money Weekly
What a pile of c**p, and here is me thinking their normal record decks were c**p! That really is low quality!
My mother bought a cheap rubbish stereo (just to play records, no interest in hi-fi or stereo) and it had a better quality turntable that that and it was mode of horrible white plastic. At least it had a metal turntable below the rubber mat!!!!
You mean, like this one?🤔
@@joerosen5464 That one is even cheaper and nastier!
Dual is just a rebrander of cheap Asian products now like many others, I hate it when they use a good company and ruin it like this....
Made in china
Are you blind? Perhaps you need stronger glasses. It has made in Germany stamped all over it. The Chinese are a proud bunch. They would never stamp made in Germany on their products no more than the Germans would stamp made in china on their stuff.
@@12voltvids no way would the Germans make such crap
@@ashbashbaby2 keep telling yourself that. Have you owned one of their shitty cars lately? A buddy used to believe in MB till it just about bankrupted him keeping it running. Bought a jokeswagon and is regretting that one too.
@@ashbashbaby2 Could it be Assembled in Germany ?