I agree. When you find a channel that is willing to criticize a bottle it speaks to their credibility in my opinion. I like to know that I'm getting a real opinion.
Good summary....think you pretty much nailed it. I see increasing availability of most of these higher-end brands/labels. I think there are fewer of us that are willing to pay upwards of $80 for a bottle, when we can find great single-barrels and "SB store picks" from almost all of the major distilleries. There are so many great offerings that are $50-$65. Financially irresponsible for us to pay these elevated prices for a good (or even great) bottle of bourbon. Inconsistencies from the higher-end SBs don't help the cause. Keep up the great work!
Similar to you, I've had the opportunity to drink a lot of rare and hard to find bottles and almost without fail I end up disappointed. And I'm not drinking them blind either. Which is of course the best way to figure out if you like something or not. Either way, the reality is, they're all just whiskey that comes in a barrel. Yes, there are different proofs, different mashbills, different ages, locations within the rickhouse, etc. But, if Pappy was really that good, or Elmer T. Lee, Blanton's, etc., they would've never sat on the shelf ten years ago for retail. They're decent to good but seldom great and fortunately more and more people are getting to try these and discovering how much time and money is being wasted. So, cheers to you guys for exposing the allocated myth.
The great label dovetail here in St Louis at a couple stores had a sale price for the past year or so of maybe 120 to $140 but recently got clearanced out at 99
Great summary and shows that value is both about what you like and what you’re willing to pay. Not much that I’m going to pay $100+ for because there are great pours for $50-70 and those are a much better value to me.
Bless you Erin. Pretty much as y'all suggest, I don't think that most unicorns are worth the effort. I won't say that I haven't bought any at or slightly above MSRP but, the differences between them and everyday shelf offerings, in most cases, are not worth the cost. I won't say that I haven't found any that were, because I have, and I did enjoy them very much. Great show as always! Cheers!
Thanks so much for the kind words! Blinds definitely don't lie, and can be quite harsh at times, but we feel like that's important. Glad that's appreciated. Cheers!
Josh, from what you were saying at 11:00 about, all made whiskey has to be sold, no matter how bad it is. Of course that is mostly true, though BT does trash some entire barrels that do not meet their standards. If you are familiar the "pappygate" scandal, that came out during that.
Been seeing some places around the country pricing the grey label Barrell around 100$ now. Distributors have piles of it so they're marking it down. How do you guys feel about it for 100$ instead of 250$? Since the regular offering is 80$ already.
Grey Label Barrel Dove Tail and or Seagrass are great whiskeys at 100 they are steals Grey Label Seagrass has a 16 year age statement so 100 IA a steal
The experience you described on the spirits of French Lick reminds me of a bottle of Whistle Pig 10yr I picked up. It was an A359 barrel and tasted like a moldy, grainy basement. I’ve had it EVERYTIME I come to Nashville when we stay at the Moxie but THAT barrel is bad!
I was really surprised to come across a bottle of Blanton's SFTB, but I have to admit that, considering the price on the second-hand market, I have to agree with you that it's just not worth it for me. I really wish I could get my hands on a bottle of Stagg, but it seems like prices for everything are skyrocketing, especially when it comes to second-hand sales. Thanks for sharing and keep them coming!
I always like to learn what to avoid...... So far I have learned what I like and don't. And my bar is something I'm proud of to serve my friends... Value is always something I use to determine what I drink.... Oh and I do have a few bottles that are not cheap, but to me are worth buying...
Pappy is one of the most over hyped names in whiskey, period. They’re hardly worth their msrp and they surely aren’t worth their secondary. I’ve been lucky enough to accumulate a handful of van winkle bottles over the years, but I was too afraid to open them. They were practically investments and decor for my whiskey shelving. I opened my 23 and 15 year for tasting and it sort of fell flat for me. I struck a deal with my local liquor and traded a 10 year for a case of Blanton’s and a 15 year for an eagle rare 17 year. If you want a wheated bourbon stick with any of the other big names.
I feel like Pappy, and really everything from Buffalo Trace, is pretty overrated when you consider what you'll realistically spend on them. That said, a WLW 2020 sample was the pour that made me realize I like bourbon. Good to know about the Smoke Wagon bottle. I've only bought one bottle from them, the uncut unfiltered, which i absolutely LOVE.
I think this really validates your scoring system. No reasonably priced bottles anywhere on the list. A lot of budget stuff is not great, but it is not a thumbs down for $20-40. Most of these bottle could buy you 3-5 really good bottles with the inflated prices. In this day and age I feel like there is a real sweet spot between $40-80 where there is just a huge number of awesome choices for every palate. If any bottle is more than that it really needs to be Awesome. Artificial scarcity (allocation) should not override taste.
It’s certainly more on par value-wise at that price, but for a $160 spend we want to absolutely love the bottle, and we don’t absolutely love Barrell Dovetail gray label so it would still be a pass for us.
Just curious since Josh brought it up, isn’t Blanton’s SFTB the only BT Mashbill #2 offering available at barrel proof? GTS, EHT BT, and Stagg are all Mashbill #1.
That's true I believe. I think for both of us, Mashbill #1 > Mashbill #2, although there's truthfully not a ton of difference between the two and they'd be tough to decipher blind with any level of certainty or accuracy IMO.
@@johnwill7962 this isnt even the same type of comment, and again im one of like 6 people saying it. Not to mention price to quality to taste is the point of the video. Im not sure why you act so childish.
Erin doesn't ever remember, and I'm pretty good about cataloging overall impressions of pours from memory alone. We find that flavor notes you get can change from day to day, but the overall impression rarely shifts heavily, so that's what I try to latch on to and commit to memory.
Blanton's SFTB is the only Buffalo Trace whisky I've had that impressed me. It's the one thing I'd buy from that distillery - if I could find it and afford it, which I can't. 🙂 7:55 If a distillery wants to experiment, great - that's how you find new things. But they should do some beta testing before they release it. Obviously the people who come up with the experiment and recommend it for release like it, or they'd have junked it, but somebody without a commitment to it needs to weigh in on. A distillery could save itself some bad reviews by sending out samples to various whisky reviewers and getting their opinions first. The only Russell's Reserve I've had is the 10 year, and I just didn't like it. I enjoy Wild Turkey 101, but the Russell's 10 just didn't taste good to me.
About 12 years ago I paid $80 for this odd looking 15 year old bourbon called Pappy Van Winkle because my package store guy said I should try it. At that time I was buying (and enjoying) Eagle Rare for about $30 and Blanton's for $50 and didn't see the point to paying so much more. I was right ... there wasn't a point to it 😉
You guys need to make tasting note cards, for each of you and have them in front of you for episodes like this. Your wife(like the majority of us) can't remember these bottles, from way back when. It would make for a better episode if you read what your thoughts were on the day. It would be easier than scouring past episodes to remember why you didn't care for them.
Gees Josh - Give Erin a chance to say something (LOL)! In all seriousness, has anyone given Pappy 23 year a positive review? I don't think I've ever seen a review where it's recommended (It's usually an avoid).
@@stuffandwhiskey Actually, I was going to comment: how come you didn’t mention that Balcones Rye that you disliked so much? To be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you being so turned off by a whiskey. Or any other spirit for that matter. 😊
My list would include Elijah Craig barrel proof. One of the worst bourbons I have ever tasted. Never buy again. The worst is Jefferson’s. Had to spit it out- the worst I have ever had, by far!
I love Erin’s honesty and appreciation about Pappy. She’s a class act ✌️
I agree. When you find a channel that is willing to criticize a bottle it speaks to their credibility in my opinion. I like to know that I'm getting a real opinion.
Good summary....think you pretty much nailed it. I see increasing availability of most of these higher-end brands/labels. I think there are fewer of us that are willing to pay upwards of $80 for a bottle, when we can find great single-barrels and "SB store picks" from almost all of the major distilleries. There are so many great offerings that are $50-$65. Financially irresponsible for us to pay these elevated prices for a good (or even great) bottle of bourbon. Inconsistencies from the higher-end SBs don't help the cause. Keep up the great work!
Similar to you, I've had the opportunity to drink a lot of rare and hard to find bottles and almost without fail I end up disappointed. And I'm not drinking them blind either. Which is of course the best way to figure out if you like something or not. Either way, the reality is, they're all just whiskey that comes in a barrel. Yes, there are different proofs, different mashbills, different ages, locations within the rickhouse, etc. But, if Pappy was really that good, or Elmer T. Lee, Blanton's, etc., they would've never sat on the shelf ten years ago for retail. They're decent to good but seldom great and fortunately more and more people are getting to try these and discovering how much time and money is being wasted. So, cheers to you guys for exposing the allocated myth.
The great label dovetail here in St Louis at a couple stores had a sale price for the past year or so of maybe 120 to $140 but recently got clearanced out at 99
Great summary and shows that value is both about what you like and what you’re willing to pay. Not much that I’m going to pay $100+ for because there are great pours for $50-70 and those are a much better value to me.
Bless you Erin. Pretty much as y'all suggest, I don't think that most unicorns are worth the effort. I won't say that I haven't bought any at or slightly above MSRP but, the differences between them and everyday shelf offerings, in most cases, are not worth the cost. I won't say that I haven't found any that were, because I have, and I did enjoy them very much. Great show as always! Cheers!
Great video, love hearing your takes. Curious to know what timepiece are you wearing? Looks great!
Thanks and good eye! It’s a Submariner reference 14060M circa 2008.
when it comes to no-nonsense, honest-to-god and fair-as-can-be reviews and comments : your channel reigns supreme.
Thanks so much for the kind words! Blinds definitely don't lie, and can be quite harsh at times, but we feel like that's important. Glad that's appreciated. Cheers!
The Old Fitz costs so much more on secondary markets, good to know.
Love HH19 (but get the oak distraction) - also love Fable - 4 Pappy 15 or 20 are better than 23 IMHO
That Zeppelin-aesthetic Rye Whiskey shirt is dope
I want that shirt!
i thought i was crazy when i tasted russells 13 at the distillery and thought it was very average. good to hear i was not alone and 15 is alot better
Josh, from what you were saying at 11:00 about, all made whiskey has to be sold, no matter how bad it is. Of course that is mostly true, though BT does trash some entire barrels that do not meet their standards.
If you are familiar the "pappygate" scandal, that came out during that.
Been seeing some places around the country pricing the grey label Barrell around 100$ now. Distributors have piles of it so they're marking it down. How do you guys feel about it for 100$ instead of 250$? Since the regular offering is 80$ already.
Grey Label Barrel Dove Tail and or Seagrass are great whiskeys at 100 they are steals Grey Label Seagrass has a 16 year age statement so 100 IA a steal
It’s still not a bottle we’d reach for often so we’d still likely pass, but that’s far more in line with the value of what’s in the bottle.
The experience you described on the spirits of French Lick reminds me of a bottle of Whistle Pig 10yr I picked up. It was an A359 barrel and tasted like a moldy, grainy basement. I’ve had it EVERYTIME I come to Nashville when we stay at the Moxie but THAT barrel is bad!
Love the natural reaction at 20:10. Like most of us, We are less expressive (of our love) with our spouses than we are with our bourbon!
Love your content! 🍻
As an avid viewer, i appreciate the views of both of them equally 😊
I would have to agree on the Blanton’s straight from the barrel. There is something wrong with the qa.
I was really surprised to come across a bottle of Blanton's SFTB, but I have to admit that, considering the price on the second-hand market, I have to agree with you that it's just not worth it for me. I really wish I could get my hands on a bottle of Stagg, but it seems like prices for everything are skyrocketing, especially when it comes to second-hand sales. Thanks for sharing and keep them coming!
Very informative.
I’m glad the Col James B Beam is on the list. Not bad but the price versus what’s in the bottle always gets me. The 15 year counterpart is fantastic
I always like to learn what to avoid...... So far I have learned what I like and don't. And my bar is something I'm proud of to serve my friends... Value is always something I use to determine what I drink.... Oh and I do have a few bottles that are not cheap, but to me are worth buying...
Pappy is one of the most over hyped names in whiskey, period. They’re hardly worth their msrp and they surely aren’t worth their secondary.
I’ve been lucky enough to accumulate a handful of van winkle bottles over the years, but I was too afraid to open them. They were practically investments and decor for my whiskey shelving. I opened my 23 and 15 year for tasting and it sort of fell flat for me. I struck a deal with my local liquor and traded a 10 year for a case of Blanton’s and a 15 year for an eagle rare 17 year.
If you want a wheated bourbon stick with any of the other big names.
I feel like Pappy, and really everything from Buffalo Trace, is pretty overrated when you consider what you'll realistically spend on them. That said, a WLW 2020 sample was the pour that made me realize I like bourbon. Good to know about the Smoke Wagon bottle. I've only bought one bottle from them, the uncut unfiltered, which i absolutely LOVE.
I think this really validates your scoring system. No reasonably priced bottles anywhere on the list. A lot of budget stuff is not great, but it is not a thumbs down for $20-40. Most of these bottle could buy you 3-5 really good bottles with the inflated prices. In this day and age I feel like there is a real sweet spot between $40-80 where there is just a huge number of awesome choices for every palate. If any bottle is more than that it really needs to be Awesome. Artificial scarcity (allocation) should not override taste.
Nice review but if you go to Barrells web site the grey and gold bottles are much cheaper.
Does your opinion about Barrell gray label change with the new $160 ish price point?
It’s certainly more on par value-wise at that price, but for a $160 spend we want to absolutely love the bottle, and we don’t absolutely love Barrell Dovetail gray label so it would still be a pass for us.
Just curious since Josh brought it up, isn’t Blanton’s SFTB the only BT Mashbill #2 offering available at barrel proof? GTS, EHT BT, and Stagg are all Mashbill #1.
That's true I believe. I think for both of us, Mashbill #1 > Mashbill #2, although there's truthfully not a ton of difference between the two and they'd be tough to decipher blind with any level of certainty or accuracy IMO.
I absolutely love lee sinclair. One of my favorite whiskies. Theres so little ill spend $100 on these days. Too much great in the $40-80 range.
Every video
@@johnwill7962 this isnt even the same type of comment, and again im one of like 6 people saying it. Not to mention price to quality to taste is the point of the video. Im not sure why you act so childish.
Been looking for that Blantons. I trust both of your palates and will pass on this!
Fun bottle to have on the shelf and share, and some are great, but it’s single barrel roulette if you can’t try before you buy.
Erin, your hair looks wonderful again today.
Good Episode...Don't be a follower, trust your own pallet and like what you like. Doesn't matter what bottle you have on your shelves.
Definitely a ton of truth about Pappys. Just a unicorn without a significant true reason.
I don’t have to worry about spending enough to be disappointed by any of these lol guess that’s kinda sad lol
Very informative thanks yall
To keep track of all of your bottles and their tastes, do you take notes to remember? (I would need to.)
Erin doesn't ever remember, and I'm pretty good about cataloging overall impressions of pours from memory alone. We find that flavor notes you get can change from day to day, but the overall impression rarely shifts heavily, so that's what I try to latch on to and commit to memory.
Blanton's SFTB is the only Buffalo Trace whisky I've had that impressed me. It's the one thing I'd buy from that distillery - if I could find it and afford it, which I can't. 🙂
7:55 If a distillery wants to experiment, great - that's how you find new things. But they should do some beta testing before they release it. Obviously the people who come up with the experiment and recommend it for release like it, or they'd have junked it, but somebody without a commitment to it needs to weigh in on. A distillery could save itself some bad reviews by sending out samples to various whisky reviewers and getting their opinions first.
The only Russell's Reserve I've had is the 10 year, and I just didn't like it. I enjoy Wild Turkey 101, but the Russell's 10 just didn't taste good to me.
About 12 years ago I paid $80 for this odd looking 15 year old bourbon called Pappy Van Winkle because my package store guy said I should try it. At that time I was buying (and enjoying) Eagle Rare for about $30 and Blanton's for $50 and didn't see the point to paying so much more. I was right ... there wasn't a point to it 😉
A birthday bourbon?
Yep. Double blind it just didn’t live up to the price tag.
My Purple Top was $599. Mistake buy at a raffle. No plans to open. Biggest regret in my whiskey life.
That markup isn’t unheard of. The wild part is that it could be amazing or a complete flop. Willett is weird like that.
You guys need to make tasting note cards, for each of you and have them in front of you for episodes like this. Your wife(like the majority of us) can't remember these bottles, from way back when. It would make for a better episode if you read what your thoughts were on the day. It would be easier than scouring past episodes to remember why you didn't care for them.
She could read what she said but still wouldn’t remember them. The impressions stick in my mind more clearly for sure.
Gees Josh - Give Erin a chance to say something (LOL)! In all seriousness, has anyone given Pappy 23 year a positive review? I don't think I've ever seen a review where it's recommended (It's usually an avoid).
Old Fitz is hugely overrated
Have you tried Balcones Cataleja? This was my number one worst of all time. Expensive and so bad that I can’t give it away!
Haven’t tried that one actually but Balcones is usually a big miss for us.
@@stuffandwhiskey Actually, I was going to comment: how come you didn’t mention that Balcones Rye that you disliked so much? To be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you being so turned off by a whiskey. Or any other spirit for that matter. 😊
@@MrMBBM it didn’t get thumbs down from the both of us which was the premise of this video. It certainly did elicit quite a strong reaction though. 😂
My list would include Elijah Craig barrel proof. One of the worst bourbons I have ever tasted. Never buy again. The worst is Jefferson’s. Had to spit it out- the worst I have ever had, by far!