We love seeing all the amazing, well thought out additions to the conversation everyone has left here. You're all awesome. It's obviously a topic that inspires very deep beer meditation for passionate beer explorers.
Very interesting beer thesis guys. I have to say I would agree. I love all (most) beer styles and what I buy really comes down to time of year or mood. But if I had to choose one beer to have available to me for the rest of my life, gotta say it would be a german or czech lager. By the way, y'all have been killing it lately. Super entertaining stuff. Cool to see the subscriber count ticking up too, you're finally getting the love you deserve. Cheers BB!
German or Czech lager is still very very broad. I mean German lagers could be German Pilsners, Kellerbier, Bock, Doppelbock, Maibock, Eisbock, Munich Helles, Munich Dunkel, Rauchbier, Festbier, or Märzen, or many other varieties or variations. I have yet to have been to Czechia being that they are the nation that drinks more beer per capita than any other nation, and have a well known beer culture. I think it would be safe to assume that they also have a very large selection of lagers.
You're on to something. Something I remember about Japanese tea connoisseurs. They have this belief when they start training someone in tea that you must start with the poorest quality tea leaves. The idea being that if you cannot respect and find something to love in the poorest quality leaves, you have no business being around the good stuff. I think that sort of thinking breeds an open mind and a respect not only for the product, but also for the producer, craft, tradition, nature, and God (depending on religion). I love what you said, when I explore the extremes, it gives me a better understanding and appreciation of the middle. It ties to the historical ideal that one faculty you're looking to train in a liberally educated person is "discernment." Somewhere along the line, discernment morphed into a snobbishness. But, the idea of discernment even included separating your subjective taste from the product/art, etc. That gives you the ability to say: "This is a really well made X, yet X must not be to my taste."
"When I explore the extremes, it gives me a better understanding and appreciation of the middle." Thank you for distilling it down to that wonderfully crafted sentence. Fantastic. It is true that what we're doing is trying to discern between what we believe are well crafted brews and what aren't. Regardless of our personal tastes on the matter. Even so, it's always a fine line to not come off as sounding "snobby" or picky to the casual viewer of one of our episodes. That tea connoisseur analogy is beautiful btw, thanks for sharing that. I'm going to use that one day.
What a great thesis, what great questions and answers! As an explorer, I always end up going back to the good old lager. Hugs from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
I agree with this. Pilsner Urquell has been my go-to for a few years now, nothing more satisfying. Noticed the call out to them in the video at the beginning there.
Like others have said before me, that's a heck of a beer thesis. My personal go-tos now are mostly New Englands and oatmeal/Irish stouts, but I've heard tons of beer fans say the same thing about going back to pale lagers once they've been around the scene a couple of times. And while I love 'big' beers, like Ale said, my palate definitely gets fatigued from the extremes sometimes and like Joe said, I appreciate the "beer essence" simplicity of a well-brewed Pils, Dort, helles, etc. Overall, I think there may be some other contenders, but it can definitely be legitimately argued that lager is the ultimate form of beer. Cheers!🍻
Agreed, my personal go-to's these days are made up of pale ales, english bitters and stouts. But I always make sure to have a good german or czech pils or a helles in the fridge.
Another really good video lads covering a great beer topic!!! I have always been a lager man and I have had many small periods of enjoying every other style! I love all beer but I truly believe you just can’t beat a well done lager, specifically a Pilsner! As I said great video and keep up these great conversation videos love it!!
Thanks Boydo! I can say the same. I enjoy most styles (still can't do lambics) and go through little stretches where my go-to will be something different, but always come back to a nice well done lager or pilsner.
Good beer thesis lol. You guys definitely make a good argument for it. I too find myself defaulting to a good lager/pilsner these days. If I had to pick one definitive style though, I might go with an ale. Seems like there's a lot of history to that style and it's a better representation of hops x malt.
That is such a good point Jim. I personally could almost make as strong of an argument for pale ales and english bitters as being the ultimate form of beer.
A great topic of conversation. My $0.02 - beer is an interesting category with many substyles, and I think at a certain point you are going to have an issue of cross-style comparison. You guys have seen in many of your versus episodes that people do not like cross-style comparison. Can a light lager be compared to a barrel-aged sour ale? A fruited hazy IPA? A high-ABV milk stout? Let me be the one to point out that NONE of the perfect beers in the Beer Brackets Perfect Beer Round Table are lagers by my count, and only 4/11 of Outstanding Beers are. I think beer is kind of like pizza. Most people would probably not say their favorite pizza ever is a margherita pizza, but like a good lager, there is nowhere to hide with a margherita pizza. If you do not use quality ingredients and good technique, it will obviously not be as good. However, the margherita pizza probably best approximates the Platonic ideal of "pizza", so in that sense it may be the best pizza. The ultimate fact is that, what we call "beer" is a weird subcategory of grain-brewed alcoholic beverages that have somewhat similar characteristics, and historically it would have been much, much wider. Drinking "beer" in 18th Century England or 11th Century Scandinavia or 6th Century BC Mesopotamia would have been a completely different experience. Beer in the West, and insofar as "beer" elsewhere has conformed to European concepts of beer, is clearly borne from an industrialized version of beer that was required to make European lagers at scale. Most ales, even if they don't have German origin, conform to these processes as well. Therefore, the reason why the Platonic ideal of "beer" is a lager to begin with is probably because of this relatively recent (last ~200 years) history.
As always, beautifully said Nate. I love that you pointed out how we don't have any lagers scored as perfect. Which I think furthers the thesis along a little bit in the sense that while we can analyze certain beers category by category and discern that it is probably one of the best examples of its style by giving it a perfect score. It still doesn't mean it's what we would choose to drink on a Friday after work even though we hold it in such high reverence. I won't always crave a 10% abv St. Bernardus ABT12 , it's become a celebratory drink that I'll enjoy on occasion when I'm in the mood to challenge my palette and savour something. 9 days out of 10 I might grab the helles lager out of the fridge before I would the ABT 12, but that by no means implies I think it's a superior beer. Which is kinda why I think lagers can be called the "ultimate" style. LOVE the margherita pizza analogy. I feel like we may have discussed that in one of our lives? Maybe I dreamed it.
German beer is good, and can be very good. München Helles is the most common beer style in Bavaria. In Munich (München) you have the six big brewers: Hofbräu, Paulaner, Löwenbräu, Spaten, Hacker-Psschor, and Augustiner. Those are also the only breweries permitted to have beer tents at The Oktoberfest. They all make a Helles beer. Outside of Munich there are many other breweries that produce Helles beers. In Tegernsee a pretty reputable one is made. I would say within the style my favourites that I drank were the Tegernsee Helles, and the Augustiner Helles. I do not believe that either are imported to the United States, at least not regularly. There is just so many other styles. It is definitely worth a trip to Bamberg to try Bamberger Rauchbier. Nürnberg also has some good beer styles such as Nürnberger Rotbier. Also if you ever find yourself in between Nürnberg and München and you are near the Danube river head up to Weltenburg Kloster. It is a monastery up the Danube river. They are currently the oldest monastic brewery in the world. They sell 6 or so varieties of beer there. Only two are made at the brewery so you must be careful of that. The Barock Dunkel is very good and has won a few awards I was told, it is also made on site. One of the other best parts of German beer is the price. You could get a half liter can of Paulaner for €0.95. At some supermarkets you could get a half liter of beer for €0.55. Most bars, pubs, beer halls, beer gardens, or inns serve a half liter of beer from around €4.10 to about €5.00. When I was in Tegernsee you could get a half liter of beer for €3.30. In America I could not afford to go out and drink beer. It is too pricey. In Germany it is usually affordable. Unless you go to a touristy bar like an Irish pub, or something. Those are expensive.
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We love seeing all the amazing, well thought out additions to the conversation everyone has left here. You're all awesome. It's obviously a topic that inspires very deep beer meditation for passionate beer explorers.
Very interesting beer thesis guys. I have to say I would agree. I love all (most) beer styles and what I buy really comes down to time of year or mood. But if I had to choose one beer to have available to me for the rest of my life, gotta say it would be a german or czech lager.
By the way, y'all have been killing it lately. Super entertaining stuff. Cool to see the subscriber count ticking up too, you're finally getting the love you deserve. Cheers BB!
Cheers Jake! Very hard to go wrong with a German or Czech lager. Thanks for the kind words and for watching friend 🍻
German or Czech lager is still very very broad. I mean German lagers could be German Pilsners, Kellerbier, Bock, Doppelbock, Maibock, Eisbock, Munich Helles, Munich Dunkel, Rauchbier, Festbier, or Märzen, or many other varieties or variations.
I have yet to have been to Czechia being that they are the nation that drinks more beer per capita than any other nation, and have a well known beer culture. I think it would be safe to assume that they also have a very large selection of lagers.
You're on to something. Something I remember about Japanese tea connoisseurs. They have this belief when they start training someone in tea that you must start with the poorest quality tea leaves. The idea being that if you cannot respect and find something to love in the poorest quality leaves, you have no business being around the good stuff. I think that sort of thinking breeds an open mind and a respect not only for the product, but also for the producer, craft, tradition, nature, and God (depending on religion). I love what you said, when I explore the extremes, it gives me a better understanding and appreciation of the middle.
It ties to the historical ideal that one faculty you're looking to train in a liberally educated person is "discernment." Somewhere along the line, discernment morphed into a snobbishness. But, the idea of discernment even included separating your subjective taste from the product/art, etc. That gives you the ability to say: "This is a really well made X, yet X must not be to my taste."
"When I explore the extremes, it gives me a better understanding and appreciation of the middle." Thank you for distilling it down to that wonderfully crafted sentence. Fantastic.
It is true that what we're doing is trying to discern between what we believe are well crafted brews and what aren't. Regardless of our personal tastes on the matter. Even so, it's always a fine line to not come off as sounding "snobby" or picky to the casual viewer of one of our episodes.
That tea connoisseur analogy is beautiful btw, thanks for sharing that. I'm going to use that one day.
What a great thesis, what great questions and answers! As an explorer, I always end up going back to the good old lager. Hugs from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
Cheers honorable beer explorer! We salute you 🫡 🍻
I agree with this. Pilsner Urquell has been my go-to for a few years now, nothing more satisfying. Noticed the call out to them in the video at the beginning there.
Sharp eye! It’s a bucketlist beer experience for me to have Urquell in Czechia fresh from a Lukr tap. Peak 🍺
Like others have said before me, that's a heck of a beer thesis. My personal go-tos now are mostly New Englands and oatmeal/Irish stouts, but I've heard tons of beer fans say the same thing about going back to pale lagers once they've been around the scene a couple of times. And while I love 'big' beers, like Ale said, my palate definitely gets fatigued from the extremes sometimes and like Joe said, I appreciate the "beer essence" simplicity of a well-brewed Pils, Dort, helles, etc. Overall, I think there may be some other contenders, but it can definitely be legitimately argued that lager is the ultimate form of beer.
Cheers!🍻
Agreed, my personal go-to's these days are made up of pale ales, english bitters and stouts. But I always make sure to have a good german or czech pils or a helles in the fridge.
Another really good video lads covering a great beer topic!!! I have always been a lager man and I have had many small periods of enjoying every other style! I love all beer but I truly believe you just can’t beat a well done lager, specifically a Pilsner! As I said great video and keep up these great conversation videos love it!!
Thanks Boydo! I can say the same. I enjoy most styles (still can't do lambics) and go through little stretches where my go-to will be something different, but always come back to a nice well done lager or pilsner.
Good beer thesis lol. You guys definitely make a good argument for it. I too find myself defaulting to a good lager/pilsner these days. If I had to pick one definitive style though, I might go with an ale. Seems like there's a lot of history to that style and it's a better representation of hops x malt.
That is such a good point Jim. I personally could almost make as strong of an argument for pale ales and english bitters as being the ultimate form of beer.
Hands down the best!
A great topic of conversation. My $0.02 - beer is an interesting category with many substyles, and I think at a certain point you are going to have an issue of cross-style comparison. You guys have seen in many of your versus episodes that people do not like cross-style comparison. Can a light lager be compared to a barrel-aged sour ale? A fruited hazy IPA? A high-ABV milk stout? Let me be the one to point out that NONE of the perfect beers in the Beer Brackets Perfect Beer Round Table are lagers by my count, and only 4/11 of Outstanding Beers are. I think beer is kind of like pizza. Most people would probably not say their favorite pizza ever is a margherita pizza, but like a good lager, there is nowhere to hide with a margherita pizza. If you do not use quality ingredients and good technique, it will obviously not be as good. However, the margherita pizza probably best approximates the Platonic ideal of "pizza", so in that sense it may be the best pizza.
The ultimate fact is that, what we call "beer" is a weird subcategory of grain-brewed alcoholic beverages that have somewhat similar characteristics, and historically it would have been much, much wider. Drinking "beer" in 18th Century England or 11th Century Scandinavia or 6th Century BC Mesopotamia would have been a completely different experience. Beer in the West, and insofar as "beer" elsewhere has conformed to European concepts of beer, is clearly borne from an industrialized version of beer that was required to make European lagers at scale. Most ales, even if they don't have German origin, conform to these processes as well. Therefore, the reason why the Platonic ideal of "beer" is a lager to begin with is probably because of this relatively recent (last ~200 years) history.
As always, beautifully said Nate. I love that you pointed out how we don't have any lagers scored as perfect. Which I think furthers the thesis along a little bit in the sense that while we can analyze certain beers category by category and discern that it is probably one of the best examples of its style by giving it a perfect score. It still doesn't mean it's what we would choose to drink on a Friday after work even though we hold it in such high reverence. I won't always crave a 10% abv St. Bernardus ABT12 , it's become a celebratory drink that I'll enjoy on occasion when I'm in the mood to challenge my palette and savour something. 9 days out of 10 I might grab the helles lager out of the fridge before I would the ABT 12, but that by no means implies I think it's a superior beer. Which is kinda why I think lagers can be called the "ultimate" style.
LOVE the margherita pizza analogy. I feel like we may have discussed that in one of our lives? Maybe I dreamed it.
@ oooh, you may be right about using that analogy in a live stream. There’s usually some other activity happening that’s known to strain the memory!
Yes, preferably German 🍻
They definitely make some of the best!
German beer is good, and can be very good. München Helles is the most common beer style in Bavaria. In Munich (München) you have the six big brewers: Hofbräu, Paulaner, Löwenbräu, Spaten, Hacker-Psschor, and Augustiner. Those are also the only breweries permitted to have beer tents at The Oktoberfest. They all make a Helles beer. Outside of Munich there are many other breweries that produce Helles beers. In Tegernsee a pretty reputable one is made. I would say within the style my favourites that I drank were the Tegernsee Helles, and the Augustiner Helles. I do not believe that either are imported to the United States, at least not regularly.
There is just so many other styles. It is definitely worth a trip to Bamberg to try Bamberger Rauchbier. Nürnberg also has some good beer styles such as Nürnberger Rotbier. Also if you ever find yourself in between Nürnberg and München and you are near the Danube river head up to Weltenburg Kloster. It is a monastery up the Danube river. They are currently the oldest monastic brewery in the world. They sell 6 or so varieties of beer there. Only two are made at the brewery so you must be careful of that. The Barock Dunkel is very good and has won a few awards I was told, it is also made on site.
One of the other best parts of German beer is the price. You could get a half liter can of Paulaner for €0.95. At some supermarkets you could get a half liter of beer for €0.55. Most bars, pubs, beer halls, beer gardens, or inns serve a half liter of beer from around €4.10 to about €5.00. When I was in Tegernsee you could get a half liter of beer for €3.30.
In America I could not afford to go out and drink beer. It is too pricey. In Germany it is usually affordable. Unless you go to a touristy bar like an Irish pub, or something. Those are expensive.
Lager are great, ales are great, beer is great