Apologies for having to edit around some stuff, had a few copyright issues releasing this video. discord: discord.gg/TNbJJuWqRJ twitter: x.com/TopHotBoxer twitch: www.twitch.tv/tophotboxer69
I’m going to live in the comment section of this video. This whole trend has really disturbed me and it gets to the heart of our cultural problems and I haven’t seen anyone else talk about it like you have. There’s lots of great comments and things to think about. If you could do more videos about this topic it would be great because you clearly hit a huge audience with this one.
Right? And in the story, the men around him, so devoid of a sense of belonging and purpose see this as strength and want to be around him, led by him... controlled by him. Sure sounds awfully familiar to these red pill guys... who also ironically aspouse their hatred for gender studies (as we see in this video essay) despite the matrix movies being written by transgender women!
@@mbe102 The novel is more explicit about how the movement Tyler started turned into something horrible. But yeah. It is weird people looking at the movie, and say "I want to be one of these nameless dudes in order to protest society"
@@mbe102 It's endlessly funny to me that this kind of chud will constantly talk down about the concept of gender studies, philosophy, ethics, etc etc yet ENDLESSLY DEBATE those exact topics. They think their own vibes on a topic supersedes people who have studied and read the positions of thousands Like yeah, those disciplines don't often make a ton of money, but that doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile to society... unless you're a capitalist slave who thinks Value and Money are entirely equated... but those red pills are often saying they AREN'T slaves to the system, right? They can't even pick a side
@@R0t__ what I find funny is that my dad is a huge fan of Fight Club but he introduced it to my sister and I when we were each 13 (she's two years older than me). My dad never talked about the imbalance of gender but thought it was a great piece of writing and cinematography about psychology and anti-capitalism. My sister even read the book it was an adaptation from. Me and my sister were always more interested in it than my younger brother was so....yeah, there are a lot of women who love Fight Club as well.
or that the payphone has a little sticker stating it can't receive calls? ;-) when you know it looks like the biggest sticker ever but i think everyone misses it the first time.
In the book, he pulls out his license to show Marla to prove he's not Tyler, but the reader never learns it. Generally, it's either "Jack" or "the Narrator" if you're interested in stuff like that.
@@rayzecor He shows Marla his license and proves that he isn't Tyler. The reader never sees the name on it, but it confirms that the name on the lisence is not Tyler Durden. There are no clues or hints. It's just never given.
Those fans only saw the movie lmao. In the books it's even made more obvious how much of a loser he is. Bateman's deadbeat younger brother could even make reservations at Dorsia while he couldn't. That dinner scene was hilarious. Patrick was being ignored by the attractive waitresses all night because they knew it was his brother who was paying.
Yes but you are literally watching the life story of a man who lived an incredibly interesting life on his own terms, gained incredible success, may have fucked his sister, and died hilariously.
Tony had virtues though. He had drive, was clever, and had principles. Tragic he put it all into being a criminal and monster, but in the end, protecting his last shard of humanity cost his life, and he died standing up.
@rafaelrodrigues7971 really disagree. He starts with virtues, maybe. But with a thirst for power, a single drop gets to his head. He's materialistic, doesn't treat his wife as more than an object to own, and does the ONE thing he was told never to do as he even knew early on that it was a stupid move... fuck with someone else's money. He tried to cheat out the dude that helped/let him get where he got. Greed, selfishness, and materialism were the goals that were masked by his "ideals."
I like how Sneako is in that gooner consumerism bubble and then promotes a movie which heavily criticizes consumerism. Proves that the best way to become rich on the internet is to be stupid and to think that you are smart. Great Video btw
People like Sneako and Andrew Tate are just using the idea of "loser" men in society to benefit their own pockets. It's not just the "red pill" community that does this. It's almost any kind of Internet persona. Hasan Piker is a good example, "Capitalism bad, Communism Good." While making money off the people who look up to him, while not doing anything to help. Its basic "Get rich by listening to me" Scam. The truth is not everybody is going to be Rich, attractive and loved. That is normal, Most people aren't millionaires and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don’t think Sneako is dumb. I think he pretends to be dumb, but he doesn’t drink his own koolaid. He knows that everything he feeds his fan base is poison because he’s trying to scam them. An example of someone who actually is stupid is Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate inherited his wealth and is just a rich kid that never grew up. He drinks his own koolaid.
This guy is spamming reddit to try to post his "hot takes" that are cringe, you can't even call it analysis, it is like elementary level stuff. Just another sad example of the poor education system in America. These were the type of people who cheated on book reports, and never did the Accelerated Reading exams, I bet his AR level was like a 3. While us GATE kids laughed at them. I bet he is one of those drama bros that thought he would be the next great actor after watching these movies at his creepy Uncle's house.
@@NotoriousTim I deleted my comments but that does not mean that the original commenter didn't make a typo and then come back and pretend that they didn't so I'm not entirely to blame, they could have spelled properly first
@@fae206 there is context tho, the video talks about Bateman, this is a comment section for that video, the timestamp is literally a tiktok with Bateman in it. Maybe use your brain a little bit.
The genre of 'film satirising masculinity that's completely misconstrued by the people it criticises' is always fun to watch when you're actually aware of what it's saying, but I think it's insane people manage to watch it and have the GLARING message fly right over their heads😭same with stuff like breaking bad and joker for example. The bit where you said you had to Clarify before saying American psycho was your favorite movie made me laugh a bit lol I do side eye guys who saythat before they expand on exactly what makes it their fav movie😭anyway, sick video essay!!! Editing and sound and your analysis was all awesome, I'll be checking out more of ur stuff!!
Yeah, big fan of fight club and I can see how people are attracted to the first half of the durden experience. Honestly, the real life person mentioned in the video also makes several points in his .. manuscript that I personally think ring true. But it always comes down to execution. Its fun to hear Durden talk about individualism and not following the crowd. But then the next step is literally forming that crowd to command. I think durden and bateman have very specific qualities that are admirable. Durden with the idgaf which we could all use and bateman with self-appreciation to put it lightly. I think people who are missing those qualities entirely see that and just jump straight off the cliff into everything else. But yeah, nuance is hard. Its crazy to me that anyone can watch these movies fully and say "yeah i agree with that guy and I wish I was like that."
Another fact: Matrix, American Psycho and Fight Club are all authored by LGBT writers. The people who are seen as degenerates by the same people who idolize these works (without understanding satire)
I do wonder how much of that ignorance is willful. I love these films because they remind me why I hate what I hate. If you were to still be in that stage where you've become aware of the harmful tendencies demonstrated by both these characters and yourself, but you lacked whatever makes a person interrogate themselves and openly detest these traits, then the response would look really similar to what we see in the fans of Durden and Psycho-man (fuck looking up his name, he sucks). A rejection of both these characters obvious faults and the communities most vulnerable to them. The queers (myself included) are but one group in that stew. There's also the poors, the differently abled, and any racial minorities. Probably more, but I'm too mentally ill to remember them.
As someone who repeatedly reads fight club over and over again, who underlines the book and keeps notes in the margin, the narrator is the type of person your crazy side is supposed to relate to. How is it, that when a plane is landing, there is a chance that you just all might die. But then you do land safely, and the guy who also almost died next to you says "I hope you catch your connecting." But as the story goes on, you start to detach from him. You start to realise "wait a minute, project meyhem isn't good, I don't want innocent people to die." Next thing you know, you can't control your crazy side (Tyler) anymore and he's going to cut your balls off. You are going to cut your own balls off if you don't get a hold of yourself. But maybe, what you really needed was to fall in love, you needed love to save you, you needed Marla all along. (It's a very romantic story actually). You didn't do the narrator too much justice in this by the way, he has insomnia (he thinks), but he does black out at night, yet he's exhausted as if he'd never slept (because he didn't sleep, Tyler, his dual personality had been running fight club and making preparations, and he didn't even know about it). How do you expect anyone to have a hobby under those conditions? At least with the disease therapy he was able to get some sleep. And omg, did I mention how amazingly well the book was written?
I mean, the narrator never forced Marla to do anything. The only time he wronged her was when he stole her mother's liposuctioned fat to make soap (she wanted to inject it into her lips). Otherwise, he gave her the full "prince charming treatment" (as stated in the book) to her from time to time.
@@mehakverma7043 yeah and in the movie they realize this. I'm saying how the Incels and red-pillers fail to make notice to this when talking about wanting women as sex objects
Another great example is Evangelion, a story about loving yourself and the negatives of escapism and yet the show has a whole fanbase that only talks about girl's b00bs and has so much merch you can live entirely of off it
@@averagehaloenjoyer3040 gawd it would make for an s tier youtube to have those kids on film watch the actual film… super curious what their reaction wld be
Like you, I’m always cautious to tell people about my love for American Psycho because I don’t want them thinking I’m a weirdo who actually relates to Bateman. Great video, dude. You earned yourself a sub.
I'm a big fan too and it annoys me how those people think Bateman is someone to look up to. Same with how those same people think Tyler Durden is a revolutionary and visionary who's not afraid of telling it like it is. There's a reason why Palahniuk made Fight Club 2 to address that.
@@christopherknowles but how would the narrator/sebastian/tyler durden be able to know let alone communicate with the figment of another woman's imagination? how would she be in multiple places when we only know of one instance of chloe? and where in the movie do they even point to that? sorry if i come off as incoherent or angry but I really dont understand what youre trying posit
@@duroburo7039 Chloe/Marla is the only other female character. Without this Chloe has no role in the story and her introduction and existence serves no purpose.
The term “sigma male” is so funny to me because it literally came from incels trying to rebrand themselves. It makes me cringe so hard when people call themselves “sigma” unironically.
@@BloodylocksBathoryas an australian thats about all we did in highschool. Now that im much older im VERY glad we did. But I really worry for kids not getting that education yeah..
The thing is that Sneako and all of them are just as much slaves to capitalism as the people they criticize, sometimes even more so. They think they’re escaped the matrix but they’ve just gotten deeper into it.
Honestly a much more realistic reason than “people are superficial” for liking Patrick Bateman is that they relate to him, his fantasies, and are emotionally satisfied by him acting them out. Essentially, if people are immature enough to have a childish desire act out like these immature characters, then they will like these characters for those reasons and even admire these aspects about them and the fact that they aren’t afraid to do such things, as people who have that level of emotional lack of intelligence/immaturity would want to do the same if they weren’t afraid to.
I remember trying to explain to my father how fight club was one of my favourite movies. I went on about the themes of men chasing societal acceptance via their masculinity only led to their own downfall and loss of self, and how that can apply to pretty much anything ideologically commercialised and commodified in society (i.e., beauty standards). He replied that he didn't think the movie had any messages like that at all, it was just an action movie from the 90's about some dudes beating each other up and how the main character died in the end because he was still a loser who couldn't man up.
@@George2647g Imo, I don't think so. If the reason the man character died was because he didn't "man up", then it implies that he should have joined the cult, and by extension, their terrorism - something I don't think the movie was trying to convey. The main character died because his pursuit for fulfilment via commodities and commercial ideologies lead him to destruction (metaphorically and literally). I think it's pretty obvious that the only times the guy feels somewhat content is when he's geuninely bonding with people (when he hugs Bob, his relationship with Marla), and that had he continued trying to form actual real connections, he might have eventually found happiness. But he was too busy chasing the societal idea of masculinity (and also, there's a bit of commentary on the alienation of consumerism) to actually do these things. (Also, my dad is kind of a conservative guy with a lot of right-wing views. Honestly, I don't even remember why I thought chatting to him about fight club was a good idea).
@@amanbirbthe4th967 its a bit harder now, given humans no longer live in tribes, or have the same primitive connection to the land. I just want to say that we shouldn't accept of fate of subservience and obscurity
@@beaupiotrowski5192 You do realize there was also work in tribes, right? You know, being a cog in a machine? Again, go live in the woods and create everything you own yourself, instead of being a burden on everyone else.
"People can only see what you can see in a tiktok edit" There. You figured it out. People dont idolize the character from the film because 90% of the people you're talking about havent even seen the film. The entire analysis falls apart on this one point but you're so in love with your own voice and you're so committed to this hollow facade of intellectualism that you dont even realize it. The people you're criticizing dont even know the character you're talking about exists. The Bateman they idolize is a series of memes. Snapshots chosen specifically to be humorous and controversial enough to generate views or laughs.
Yea but there are genuinely people who admire and follow tate (and sneako to the lesser extent) which is similar to the story of these two movies. Of course american psycho and fight club are memes but when it's real world Tate-s it's harder for people to see through. So even tho durden has no followers tate does even tho they are on some principles same characters
@@user-dd4kw2nq5t "which is similar to the story of these two movies" Uh...in what way? And even if it were true how would that at all legitimize the supposed "analysis" in the video...?
@@anon4854 well like he said tate is a person who is telling people to escape the matrix and so on and already has people who follow him religiously. And i know that beacuse i have met some of those people. There is a direct parallel between him and durden who also convinces people to escape societal norms framing it to be free will but in the end making a cult which commits terrorism. So... While the people don't idolize patrick or durden they do real world counterparts beacuse it's much harder to see through something in your life than to see the point of a movie where you know that you should be looking for one
@@user-dd4kw2nq5t So, because they utilize somewhat parallel subtext that legitimizes all the bs in the video? Nah. That weak connection still doesnt have to do with the actual characters in the films. It has to do with the snapshots specifically chosen by people posting memes and propaganda. It has infinitely more to do with the people uploading the snapshots of those characters than the characters in the films themselves. The central argument of the video is that the audience of the films misunderstands the characters and that only truly titanic intellects like the uploader has could possibly discern the authors/directors true intentions. When in reality the people he's describing as the audience of the films in the vast majority of cases have not even seen the films. Just the memes. This video is an unwitting case study on the Dunning-Kruger effect.
@@anon4854 i mean yes i does delve to deep into the subtext of the movies which is relatively easy to understand but the point is that there are people who can't understand that something is a parody and has happend with multiple songs becoming anthems of groups or behaviours they make fun of so it's not unreasonable to think a movie could have a similar effect. Of course most people that know characters of these movies have seen them only through tik toks and haven't seen the actual movies but the fact remains that there are people who follow ideas of these characters unironically but how much the movies are involved in that is questionable. There is also the fact that he says that he has to explain to people that he likes the movie beacuse of the satire and christian bale himself saying the people represented in the movie which are the brokers don't seem to understand that it's satirical at least the brokers he spoke to.
Great video. Reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street as well which is one of my favs but also another movie where too many people think Jordan Belfort is a cool rich guy instead of a giant scam artist and liar who ruined his family and relationships for money
@@CassellGuardYT I wanted to make a sort of part two about wolf of wallstreet but realized most people who look up to Jordan Belfort realize he sucks but dc cuz they just want his success
@@grimftrite for me its the opposite. The whole point of the satire (for me) is to improve our current world and not just allow those in the know to give each other a big wink.. i do wonder though how obvious they need to be w their satire if all these kids are missing the point entirely..
Great video proving how once again Oscar Wilds quote rings true: “Life imitates art far more than art imitates life”; arguing life craves kinds of expression found in great art.
It's also hilarious how Bateman is touted as an aspirational figure and "hard-working businessman" when he literally sits in his office doing nothing all day, got his job from his dad who runs the company, and is looked down upon by people who actually somewhat do menial jobs like managing accounts. His life consists of nitpicking over dinner reservations, doing drugs, drinking, torturing women, cheating on Evelyn, violence, curated hobbies he forces himself to have, and paranoia. He has no real friends or people who even like him. He is a pampered loser, and in the book, he is unfulfilled in the end, and the only difference is that he starts abusing his secretary, Jean, when they start dating; he alienates the one person who actually does somewhat have a real interest in him. He is one of the most miserable people in literature. He's an almost Dorian Gray-esque character, beautiful on the outside, but lusts for shallow pleasures of violence and hurting others because it's fascinating to him. However, in all these stories of bored, evil men; they end up destroying any chance at happiness they could've had and continue on a path of madness and self-destruction
To anyone who read the books: One time as a teenager as I joke in bed with my person I suddenly yelled at them to call me human butwipe. It... totally ruined the moment. To this day though, I'm still not sure that it wasn't worth the joke
Great video! A part you didn't fully touch on is that these characters(Tyler Durden, Patrick Batemen) embody exactly what is missing from men's life. Most modern men lack masculinity (being told its toxic) And all these hyper-masculine figures like Andrew Tate and the characters in those movies serve them as idols because they are what young men want to be. They look up to Patrick Bateman because they look at his charisma and status and see him as a role model because they want to be like him in those aspects(which you mentioned), things which are not afforded to them naturally as they should. Andrew tate is incredibly popular(apart from being purposefully controversial) because he is the masculine male figure which they lack in their lives, which he is fully aware of, and profits off of. They dont idolize them out stupidity, instead because of deeper personal and societal problems. And if it is the case that some people (which is entirely possible) look up to these figures for all their negative qualities, then yeah they're pretty stupid, but the fact that men even see something which they lack in them really says something about modern western society(as much of a meme that is). I don't think that if American Psycho came out in the 40s it would have even near the same cult following as it does now. Thought a character like him would be praised by young men during virtually any point in time, but not for the same reasons.
Also if you read the book american psycho, Bateman is a loser inside. He can't handle a simple date with the only girl he really cares about, he's a nepo baby who only works on Wall Street because his dad owns a firm (which he refuses to work at because, well, that would be too obvious) and he can't handle his workload from work. Everything he does is about projecting an image of success yet he has been handed everything in his life and can't achieve even a successful date with the girl he loves. Instead, he kills her after she rejects him.
It's weird. I don't think they were looking up to him at first. They first identified with him because of his struggles and inner turmoil, their "literally me" character. Then they started trying to become more like him which clearly wasn't the point of the film. Same thing happened with Joker (2019) and other media.
I personally have a similar problem with the Shingeki no Kyojin manga/anime. The protagonist, Eren, was written in the final arc to be a textbook fasc*st and to be as hateable as possible, a cautionary tale against prejudice. The reality? The fans of the series started to worship him. Scary stuff
And it was "The Gordon Gecko Phenomenon" before that in the 80's when Oliver Stone's villain was worshiped by the aggressive young cowards of that time.
I think the problem is that “just be yourself” and “genuineness” have led people astray to the point they feel like faking everything and being Patrick Bateman is the better choice
Good satire was always difficult, because absurdity is only recognized by people who recognize it as absurd. When Jonathan Swift wrote "A Modest Proposal" in 1729 there were people who actually thought it was a good idea. When All in the Family came out in the 70's many people did not see Archie Bunker as a character of ridicule. The problem with portraying character "types" in satire is that those types aren't drawn out of thin air, they are generally an amalgamation of people and personalities that the satirist has actually encountered so of course you're going to have people who see themselves in these characters.
the thing about fight club that people confuse all the time is that its not a calling to escape capitalism and embrace sigma lone wolf-ness. Its a call to escape mental slavery. Whether that be capitalistic, consumerism slavery, or alternate, rebellious slavery. You should just be yourself and live the way you want. You don't have to listen to others and look elsewhere for gratification and answers to your own unsolvable questions. You should be independent, but never isolate yourself
If they didn't want people to look up to Tyler Durden maybe they shouldn't have made him succeed. The dude basically wipes out ALL DEBT in the final scene and has people devoted to his cause in every major American city. If he is supposed to be a satire character who you are supposed to hate then he was written poorly because he is cool and also awesome. Its like expecting the audience to hate Rambo or Duke Nukem.
@@amanbirbthe4th967 I understand not looking up to American Psycho, he is clearly a loser. But I think the writers and directors of Fight club un-intentionally made the main "antagonist" more of a modern and more edgy Robin Hood. I get what they were going for but due to Tyler Durden's success in his endeavors they achieved the opposite. It's not about looks or cool factor either, Tyler Durden could have been played by Danny DeVito and had a heavy lisp, but if he accomplished the same thing people still would have liked his character. I'm not "that kind of person" I just have my own opinions on this movie. Also you can dislike aspects of modern society without being obsessed with Andrew Tate or that other dude.
I think the initial premise of fight club (as I understood it) was pretty, let's say relatable, maybe understandable. Western civilization and values take all of durdens energy and give no satisfaction. He wants to escape. Now the group that he creates, mindless followers acting upon anger is where the problem lies. Again manipulated by a system, just a different one representing their carnal desires or whatever you may call it better. They think they're manly for bringing down big corporations and... I actually find myself agreeing with quite a bit I can't lie. But also, that's never going to change. I want to walk the way off Buddhism more, being content with less, being happy with myself and not keeping others "tied down" in my company. Self reflection is pretty hard for me alone to do. It's hard finding errors in your ways when the only one to talk to is yourself, so I'm getting a therapist right now. I mean sh*t, if Kendrick Lamar can self reflect and put it into words so well because of therapy, he must've done something right. Good luck y'all!
Watched this video and subbed when it only had 32 views and immediately knew it was gonna blow up. Film analysis videos like these are amazing and the way you very accurately compared the themes of toxic materialism to the real life "hustlers" was great. If you plan on making more videos like this I'll for sure watch!
"everybody wants to be rich, good looking, powerful"? ... eh, dude....? Powerful, definitely not what i want. Control over my life, i guess, sure, or at least control over how i react to the world, to others, control over my emotions and thoughts. i guess that's power.... good-looking, well, what does that accomplish? better be healthy and strong
Fight club is not a satire lmao. Idk why this is parroted so much. Both the author of the book and the director have said repeatedly that it is neither a satire nor an endorsement of the ideas it perpetuates via Durden, it simply is.
People consume lots of society ruining grade culture seriously portraying horrible behavior as normal or even desirable, it's natural that satire on that would be misunderstood.
I honestly thought these screenplays were more of a critique on how badly society has shaped us. It's scary how much media (in every form) and culture has been used against us as a form of psychological warfare. The common theme I see is that work burnout -- especially in finance -- is a real thing. At least the cycle keeps us all busy, consuming and devoid of questioning our circumstances.
Pretty sure the whole 'sigma' male is entirely ironic, at least it was originally. I don't think the whole 'literally me' is supposed to be taken seriously at all. At least in the west, the only place I've seen the whole sigma male thing taken seriously is among Indians. Tate et al are just grifters, don't even think they believe all the garbo they say.
What makes it better is the paralelism. If you look at sneako compared with tyler durdeen they started with a good idea and a purpose but then just created basically a hivemind of people.
Critiquing the pitfalls of modern masculinity isn’t necessarily satire, where is the joke. The problem is that you can’t save disenfranchisement without admitting you are being control and that you need to fix that before you are free. Basically it’s a critique of a modern male that learns about masculinity and how they will interpret it. You seeing the toxicity of the message you are seeing comes from your modern mass world view. You can’t give yourself a new identity will still being controlled, you have to give yourself a placeholder state, like the X in Malcolm X. By splitting your past and future self over a change in identification you can rewrite yourself as a new person and once they are actualized you can assume that form free of past controls. This is the same exact reason why people like roleplaying or trans people change their name, it’s easier to start a new identity hard stop than it is to fight against all of the momentum of your past
I don't do this sort of thing often in comment sections but I only half agree with you, because fight club is a piece of media and we all have and are entitled to opinions and how we perceive media. I think fight club is less satirical and more direct, it's not about going from one controller to the next or about letting go, its about people wanting to change and how they will blindly follow something that gives them what they want ,regardless of consequence or what they even have to actually do. I will make a video about it myself at some point you have inspired me to do so and keep up the good work man. 👍
It’s basically a case of an In-Group vs Out-Group mentality. Anyone movement that claims to be non conformist ends up being the opposite. If you don’t follow a certain set of values or wear specific clothes then you’re ostracised from that community. Punk Rock culture is a great example of that.
I have kinda same issue with telling “I love *movie name*”. The problem is that I actually can relate to characters, but the point is not because they are “cool” or something, nah, quite the opposite. I diagnosed with autism (Asperger) and PTSD, so when I see the Narrator experience, the main character from “Shutter island” or Travis from Taxi Driver exedra (Don’t know about Patrick, Neo, Homelander, Derden, such, it’s something else and the… “Red pilled” community make it seem cool or funny, but that’s just broken or/and ill persons), I feel like watching in mirror. I’m not proud to be feel in that way, but at least I feel I’m not alone you know, but at the same time I can feel disgusted or disturbed or whatever. Btw sorry for bad english, not my native. Tbh I feel ashamed anyway, but I hope you get it.
Also about Matrix, I mean the brothers… or sisters now I guess? Not important, they made movie long ago so ofc they will now say that’s the movie was actually about trans people or whatever, but that’s feel stupid just like most of “redpilled’s” essays too.
I just realized that Midsommar is the female equivalent of this genre but I can't think of any other examples. Maybe women are just less gullible about these things.
There is a deluge of "why doesn't anyone realize American Psycho/Fight Club/Starship Troopers is satire?" takes, but very few examples of admiration that isn't satire itself. And this breakdown of Fight Club doesn't feel very insightful, like you watched them passively or something. Durden didn't exist, but it is likely that neither Marla, Bob, Project Mayhem, or even the house (Paper Street, get it?) existed either. Bateman wasn't actually a killer. The people legitimately admiring the characters have likely never watched the movies and only seen memes. If you're just talking about young men being impressionable and image obsessed, then whatever, banal stuff, but if you are upset that they aren't analyzing the movies correctly then you need to be careful with how you do it too. Art that gets released into the world and no longer belongs to the artist. Later generations are going to see it in different context that is not predictable. You end with "everyone wants to be good-looking, rich, powerful, and have an axis of social gratification," and that, in the context of this topic, may be revealing more about you than the Tate kids.
It's crazy how much people miss the point of the movie, but in the other hand the majority of the people that missed the point are 14 year olds that watched an entire FPY of cringe edits that make fun of something they don't agree with.
"Christian bale almost turned down the role" that just isn't true though, despite being paid less than his make up artists, Christian was still willing to do the role because the source material resonated with him
Bruh why is this underrated(obviously im going to either misinterpret your video due to anchoring effect selective bias or forget about this video because its easier to just follow someone or something even though ive watched 100 of interpretation of books movies and series about the problems of consumerism redpill bs niechzhe[long moustache guy] ) hope u succeed in something 👅
Dude we didnt let Patrick win. Listen to the interview. He was already winning when he was created. Shallow and crude people were already in charge back then, thats why this satire was needed so much.
Guys would get SO MAD when I said that American Psycho was my favourite comedy and that is a thriller/comedy satire not a serious movie. Like, they take it so seriously and it was so obviously a satire making fun of Wall Street yuppie types. The insecure people who take it seriously are ironically the same people that the movie is addressing 😂 It’s making fun of this psycho dude who thinks he’s the best thing since sliced bread but he’s actually just a soulless person living a sad life of materialism covered by a thin veneer of faux morals and personality. The fact people took it seriously show the poor media literacy of Americans, and also the fact that the movie is really good and ahead of its time. The interview with Christian Bale about the movie was also good.
10:00 "if you don't think for yourself, someone else will. And you'll just become a slave to their word." thanks for the word. (yea, i skipped to the end)
It’s something called interpretation, something that has always been important when it comes to art. Not all pieces have or successfully convey the artist’s message or personal views. This is the problem with mass media, “individual” thought is becoming more and more scarce. Now, is someone else’s personal thoughts on a movie more wrong or correct than your own? No. Fight club, has helped men overcome ruts and self hatred, the characters are more than one dimensional. Sure, you’ll have tik tok brains absolutely blowing one side out of proportion, but it’s the side that spoke to them. We can enjoy and relate to conflicting characters, because we ourselves are complex. There wouldn’t be any stories worth telling if they all have the same archetype of good and better.
Apologies for having to edit around some stuff, had a few copyright issues releasing this video.
discord: discord.gg/TNbJJuWqRJ
twitter: x.com/TopHotBoxer
twitch: www.twitch.tv/tophotboxer69
I’m going to live in the comment section of this video. This whole trend has really disturbed me and it gets to the heart of our cultural problems and I haven’t seen anyone else talk about it like you have. There’s lots of great comments and things to think about. If you could do more videos about this topic it would be great because you clearly hit a huge audience with this one.
Hey, geat video! Btw is there a tracklist anywhere?
@@electronik333 everything is taken from the fight club sound track
put subtitles in next time you frog
Thanks!
Funny how people don’t realize that in fight club Tyler Durdan is quite literally a person punching himself in the face.
Right? And in the story, the men around him, so devoid of a sense of belonging and purpose see this as strength and want to be around him, led by him... controlled by him. Sure sounds awfully familiar to these red pill guys... who also ironically aspouse their hatred for gender studies (as we see in this video essay) despite the matrix movies being written by transgender women!
people genuinely think that fight club some hyper masculine sigma movie and its a great representation of the downfall of media literacy
@@mbe102 The novel is more explicit about how the movement Tyler started turned into something horrible. But yeah. It is weird people looking at the movie, and say "I want to be one of these nameless dudes in order to protest society"
@@mbe102 It's endlessly funny to me that this kind of chud will constantly talk down about the concept of gender studies, philosophy, ethics, etc etc yet ENDLESSLY DEBATE those exact topics. They think their own vibes on a topic supersedes people who have studied and read the positions of thousands
Like yeah, those disciplines don't often make a ton of money, but that doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile to society... unless you're a capitalist slave who thinks Value and Money are entirely equated... but those red pills are often saying they AREN'T slaves to the system, right? They can't even pick a side
@@R0t__ what I find funny is that my dad is a huge fan of Fight Club but he introduced it to my sister and I when we were each 13 (she's two years older than me). My dad never talked about the imbalance of gender but thought it was a great piece of writing and cinematography about psychology and anti-capitalism. My sister even read the book it was an adaptation from. Me and my sister were always more interested in it than my younger brother was so....yeah, there are a lot of women who love Fight Club as well.
I just watched Fight Club. I had no idea Edward Norton's character didn't have a name. I was so wrapped up in the story, I didnt even realize.
or that the payphone has a little sticker stating it can't receive calls? ;-) when you know it looks like the biggest sticker ever but i think everyone misses it the first time.
In the book, he pulls out his license to show Marla to prove he's not Tyler, but the reader never learns it.
Generally, it's either "Jack" or "the Narrator" if you're interested in stuff like that.
@@fistofthesnortstar Oh, that's a really cool detail!
@@CollinGerberding What do you mean by never learns it? As in, the book does not say whether the driver's license read Tyler Durden or not?
@@rayzecor He shows Marla his license and proves that he isn't Tyler. The reader never sees the name on it, but it confirms that the name on the lisence is not Tyler Durden. There are no clues or hints. It's just never given.
"Ironically righr?" "Haha what do you mean?" Bro he LITERALLY KILLS PEOPLE
but he doesn't...
Have you even seen the movie? He doesn't kill anyone. He is just fucking crazy.
Those fans only saw the movie lmao. In the books it's even made more obvious how much of a loser he is.
Bateman's deadbeat younger brother could even make reservations at Dorsia while he couldn't. That dinner scene was hilarious. Patrick was being ignored by the attractive waitresses all night because they knew it was his brother who was paying.
no he doesn’t lol
I can't belive I read that book now, looking back on it
Scarface has this same problem. People want to be Tony even though the whole movie is about how his lust for power destroyed his life.
Yes but you are literally watching the life story of a man who lived an incredibly interesting life on his own terms, gained incredible success, may have fucked his sister, and died hilariously.
Tony had virtues though. He had drive, was clever, and had principles. Tragic he put it all into being a criminal and monster, but in the end, protecting his last shard of humanity cost his life, and he died standing up.
@rafaelrodrigues7971 really disagree. He starts with virtues, maybe. But with a thirst for power, a single drop gets to his head. He's materialistic, doesn't treat his wife as more than an object to own, and does the ONE thing he was told never to do as he even knew early on that it was a stupid move... fuck with someone else's money. He tried to cheat out the dude that helped/let him get where he got. Greed, selfishness, and materialism were the goals that were masked by his "ideals."
Tyler Durden is cool as fuck though
@@Shad0wack to be fair making up a loser alter ego just to fuck with people is definitely something Tyler would do.
The worst thing about these movies is that Jared Leto is in both of them
He’s been in so many disturbing films like Requiem for a Dream and thrillers like Lord of War,
No wonder he’s cuckoo
Great actor
solid actor, crappy person
@@b8IIinon bro
It's all so perfect really isn't it?
I like how Sneako is in that gooner consumerism bubble and then promotes a movie which heavily criticizes consumerism. Proves that the best way to become rich on the internet is to be stupid and to think that you are smart.
Great Video btw
that guy thinks that the age of 12 should be the age of consent
People like Sneako and Andrew Tate are just using the idea of "loser" men in society to benefit their own pockets. It's not just the "red pill" community that does this. It's almost any kind of Internet persona. Hasan Piker is a good example, "Capitalism bad, Communism Good." While making money off the people who look up to him, while not doing anything to help. Its basic "Get rich by listening to me" Scam. The truth is not everybody is going to be Rich, attractive and loved. That is normal, Most people aren't millionaires and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don’t think Sneako is dumb. I think he pretends to be dumb, but he doesn’t drink his own koolaid. He knows that everything he feeds his fan base is poison because he’s trying to scam them. An example of someone who actually is stupid is Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate inherited his wealth and is just a rich kid that never grew up. He drinks his own koolaid.
2:46 The irony of this is UNBELIEVABLE. The caption talks about self-control when Bateman has absolutely none
This guy is spamming reddit to try to post his "hot takes" that are cringe, you can't even call it analysis, it is like elementary level stuff. Just another sad example of the poor education system in America. These were the type of people who cheated on book reports, and never did the Accelerated Reading exams, I bet his AR level was like a 3. While us GATE kids laughed at them. I bet he is one of those drama bros that thought he would be the next great actor after watching these movies at his creepy Uncle's house.
@@fae206 He's talking about Patrick BATEman not batman. Bateman is a psychopathic serial killer. Batman is a super hero.
@@fae206 bro.
@@NotoriousTim I deleted my comments but that does not mean that the original commenter didn't make a typo and then come back and pretend that they didn't so I'm not entirely to blame, they could have spelled properly first
@@fae206 there is context tho, the video talks about Bateman, this is a comment section for that video, the timestamp is literally a tiktok with Bateman in it. Maybe use your brain a little bit.
The genre of 'film satirising masculinity that's completely misconstrued by the people it criticises' is always fun to watch when you're actually aware of what it's saying, but I think it's insane people manage to watch it and have the GLARING message fly right over their heads😭same with stuff like breaking bad and joker for example. The bit where you said you had to Clarify before saying American psycho was your favorite movie made me laugh a bit lol I do side eye guys who saythat before they expand on exactly what makes it their fav movie😭anyway, sick video essay!!! Editing and sound and your analysis was all awesome, I'll be checking out more of ur stuff!!
Yeah, big fan of fight club and I can see how people are attracted to the first half of the durden experience. Honestly, the real life person mentioned in the video also makes several points in his .. manuscript that I personally think ring true. But it always comes down to execution. Its fun to hear Durden talk about individualism and not following the crowd. But then the next step is literally forming that crowd to command. I think durden and bateman have very specific qualities that are admirable. Durden with the idgaf which we could all use and bateman with self-appreciation to put it lightly. I think people who are missing those qualities entirely see that and just jump straight off the cliff into everything else. But yeah, nuance is hard. Its crazy to me that anyone can watch these movies fully and say "yeah i agree with that guy and I wish I was like that."
remember the commentor who posted this is probably a transgender
It's kinda like shylock
Shylock is supposed to be hated that's what the author intended
but modern thinkers view him as a anti hero
Why is “the boys” coming to mind 😅
@@camillej4593 homelander is literally me fr 🗿🥃 based sigma rizzler ong
Another fact: Matrix, American Psycho and Fight Club are all authored by LGBT writers. The people who are seen as degenerates by the same people who idolize these works (without understanding satire)
fire pfp
I do wonder how much of that ignorance is willful. I love these films because they remind me why I hate what I hate. If you were to still be in that stage where you've become aware of the harmful tendencies demonstrated by both these characters and yourself, but you lacked whatever makes a person interrogate themselves and openly detest these traits, then the response would look really similar to what we see in the fans of Durden and Psycho-man (fuck looking up his name, he sucks). A rejection of both these characters obvious faults and the communities most vulnerable to them. The queers (myself included) are but one group in that stew. There's also the poors, the differently abled, and any racial minorities. Probably more, but I'm too mentally ill to remember them.
As someone who repeatedly reads fight club over and over again, who underlines the book and keeps notes in the margin, the narrator is the type of person your crazy side is supposed to relate to. How is it, that when a plane is landing, there is a chance that you just all might die. But then you do land safely, and the guy who also almost died next to you says "I hope you catch your connecting." But as the story goes on, you start to detach from him. You start to realise "wait a minute, project meyhem isn't good, I don't want innocent people to die." Next thing you know, you can't control your crazy side (Tyler) anymore and he's going to cut your balls off. You are going to cut your own balls off if you don't get a hold of yourself. But maybe, what you really needed was to fall in love, you needed love to save you, you needed Marla all along. (It's a very romantic story actually).
You didn't do the narrator too much justice in this by the way, he has insomnia (he thinks), but he does black out at night, yet he's exhausted as if he'd never slept (because he didn't sleep, Tyler, his dual personality had been running fight club and making preparations, and he didn't even know about it). How do you expect anyone to have a hobby under those conditions? At least with the disease therapy he was able to get some sleep.
And omg, did I mention how amazingly well the book was written?
similar theme with American Psycho, all Bateman wants really is a "meaningful relationship with somebody special"
@@sonice9020 love is the answer man ☮✌🚬
Listening to this video, it just makes me feel bad for Helena Bonam-Carter who has always defended Marla and her autonomy
I mean, the narrator never forced Marla to do anything. The only time he wronged her was when he stole her mother's liposuctioned fat to make soap (she wanted to inject it into her lips). Otherwise, he gave her the full "prince charming treatment" (as stated in the book) to her from time to time.
@@mehakverma7043 yeah and in the movie they realize this. I'm saying how the Incels and red-pillers fail to make notice to this when talking about wanting women as sex objects
I have a friend whos just like this and it was always the cringest shit listening to him ramble about how great tate is
@kakaselponmoyanph he graduated last year to pursue entrepreneurship so I'll prolly never see him again
Same is true for Wolf of Wall street. Same unironic idolisation without beeing able to understand the parody
@@KostaKeks exactly - actually this is even more common among kids slightly older than the american psycho losers
Another great example is Evangelion, a story about loving yourself and the negatives of escapism and yet the show has a whole fanbase that only talks about girl's b00bs and has so much merch you can live entirely of off it
the rejection of this revelation is exactly why the rebuilds were made
I dont think bro realises no one watching sigma male edits has the attention span to watch american psycho 😭
LMAO
@@averagehaloenjoyer3040 gawd it would make for an s tier youtube to have those kids on film watch the actual film… super curious what their reaction wld be
Like you, I’m always cautious to tell people about my love for American Psycho because I don’t want them thinking I’m a weirdo who actually relates to Bateman. Great video, dude. You earned yourself a sub.
I'm a big fan too and it annoys me how those people think Bateman is someone to look up to. Same with how those same people think Tyler Durden is a revolutionary and visionary who's not afraid of telling it like it is.
There's a reason why Palahniuk made Fight Club 2 to address that.
Probably the highest quality video with this few views thats crazy i hope this blows up despite not being very algo friendly content...
Also... if your master is Sneko or Andrew Tate you haven't broken free of capitalism. Capitalism made those losers lol
Bro was cooking with this video
Really goodfucking video, I didn't realise that you had less than 100k subs before clicking the video. This is brilliant keep up the good work.
means the worlds.
A lot of people miss the fact that Marla was Chloe’s Tyler Durden.
really? how?
@@duroburo7039 I don’t fucking know bro, the subtext was written that way. How the fuck is Tyler Sebastian?
@@christopherknowles but how would the narrator/sebastian/tyler durden be able to know let alone communicate with the figment of another woman's imagination? how would she be in multiple places when we only know of one instance of chloe? and where in the movie do they even point to that?
sorry if i come off as incoherent or angry but I really dont understand what youre trying posit
@@duroburo7039 Chloe/Marla is the only other female character. Without this Chloe has no role in the story and her introduction and existence serves no purpose.
@@christopherknowles i just thought of it as a black comedy bit. outside of sharing the same gender how are chloe and marla connected?
The term “sigma male” is so funny to me because it literally came from incels trying to rebrand themselves.
It makes me cringe so hard when people call themselves “sigma” unironically.
Take "unironically" out of your vocabulary and you'll be well on your way to salvation
I bet Walton Simons and Bob Page unironically call themselves redpilled sigmas
The highest award for parody writing is when the people you satirize adopt your work and take it literally
Is satire dead? Probably not. But sometimes I think media literacy is.
@@BloodylocksBathoryas an australian thats about all we did in highschool. Now that im much older im VERY glad we did. But I really worry for kids not getting that education yeah..
The thing is that Sneako and all of them are just as much slaves to capitalism as the people they criticize, sometimes even more so. They think they’re escaped the matrix but they’ve just gotten deeper into it.
Honestly a much more realistic reason than “people are superficial” for liking Patrick Bateman is that they relate to him, his fantasies, and are emotionally satisfied by him acting them out. Essentially, if people are immature enough to have a childish desire act out like these immature characters, then they will like these characters for those reasons and even admire these aspects about them and the fact that they aren’t afraid to do such things, as people who have that level of emotional lack of intelligence/immaturity would want to do the same if they weren’t afraid to.
I remember trying to explain to my father how fight club was one of my favourite movies. I went on about the themes of men chasing societal acceptance via their masculinity only led to their own downfall and loss of self, and how that can apply to pretty much anything ideologically commercialised and commodified in society (i.e., beauty standards). He replied that he didn't think the movie had any messages like that at all, it was just an action movie from the 90's about some dudes beating each other up and how the main character died in the end because he was still a loser who couldn't man up.
@@nobellprizz2831 wild that it could totally be (incorrectly) seen that way.. a fault of the writer/director? Or something else?
@@George2647g
Imo, I don't think so. If the reason the man character died was because he didn't "man up", then it implies that he should have joined the cult, and by extension, their terrorism - something I don't think the movie was trying to convey. The main character died because his pursuit for fulfilment via commodities and commercial ideologies lead him to destruction (metaphorically and literally). I think it's pretty obvious that the only times the guy feels somewhat content is when he's geuninely bonding with people (when he hugs Bob, his relationship with Marla), and that had he continued trying to form actual real connections, he might have eventually found happiness. But he was too busy chasing the societal idea of masculinity (and also, there's a bit of commentary on the alienation of consumerism) to actually do these things.
(Also, my dad is kind of a conservative guy with a lot of right-wing views. Honestly, I don't even remember why I thought chatting to him about fight club was a good idea).
Fight club was never satire, it was a cautionary tale against being a cog in a machine, both in normalized and extreme ways
Oh, so you mean like the concept of work? Seriously?
@@amanbirbthe4th967 yes
@@beaupiotrowski5192
Then go live in the woods as a hermit and create everything you own yourself and finding every item yourself.
@@amanbirbthe4th967 its a bit harder now, given humans no longer live in tribes, or have the same primitive connection to the land. I just want to say that we shouldn't accept of fate of subservience and obscurity
@@beaupiotrowski5192
You do realize there was also work in tribes, right? You know, being a cog in a machine?
Again, go live in the woods and create everything you own yourself, instead of being a burden on everyone else.
And to add fight club and american psycho is about being homosexual
and the matrix is about being trans
The satire memes about it are so good you think people don't know it's satire.
"People can only see what you can see in a tiktok edit"
There. You figured it out. People dont idolize the character from the film because 90% of the people you're talking about havent even seen the film.
The entire analysis falls apart on this one point but you're so in love with your own voice and you're so committed to this hollow facade of intellectualism that you dont even realize it. The people you're criticizing dont even know the character you're talking about exists. The Bateman they idolize is a series of memes. Snapshots chosen specifically to be humorous and controversial enough to generate views or laughs.
Yea but there are genuinely people who admire and follow tate (and sneako to the lesser extent) which is similar to the story of these two movies. Of course american psycho and fight club are memes but when it's real world Tate-s it's harder for people to see through. So even tho durden has no followers tate does even tho they are on some principles same characters
@@user-dd4kw2nq5t "which is similar to the story of these two movies"
Uh...in what way? And even if it were true how would that at all legitimize the supposed "analysis" in the video...?
@@anon4854 well like he said tate is a person who is telling people to escape the matrix and so on and already has people who follow him religiously. And i know that beacuse i have met some of those people. There is a direct parallel between him and durden who also convinces people to escape societal norms framing it to be free will but in the end making a cult which commits terrorism. So... While the people don't idolize patrick or durden they do real world counterparts beacuse it's much harder to see through something in your life than to see the point of a movie where you know that you should be looking for one
@@user-dd4kw2nq5t So, because they utilize somewhat parallel subtext that legitimizes all the bs in the video? Nah. That weak connection still doesnt have to do with the actual characters in the films. It has to do with the snapshots specifically chosen by people posting memes and propaganda. It has infinitely more to do with the people uploading the snapshots of those characters than the characters in the films themselves.
The central argument of the video is that the audience of the films misunderstands the characters and that only truly titanic intellects like the uploader has could possibly discern the authors/directors true intentions. When in reality the people he's describing as the audience of the films in the vast majority of cases have not even seen the films. Just the memes.
This video is an unwitting case study on the Dunning-Kruger effect.
@@anon4854 i mean yes i does delve to deep into the subtext of the movies which is relatively easy to understand but the point is that there are people who can't understand that something is a parody and has happend with multiple songs becoming anthems of groups or behaviours they make fun of so it's not unreasonable to think a movie could have a similar effect. Of course most people that know characters of these movies have seen them only through tik toks and haven't seen the actual movies but the fact remains that there are people who follow ideas of these characters unironically but how much the movies are involved in that is questionable. There is also the fact that he says that he has to explain to people that he likes the movie beacuse of the satire and christian bale himself saying the people represented in the movie which are the brokers don't seem to understand that it's satirical at least the brokers he spoke to.
I honestly thought all people were using him ironically, as in it was supposed to be a joke.
@@JuanLopez-kk9wi sadly no
Bateman?
Great video. Reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street as well which is one of my favs but also another movie where too many people think Jordan Belfort is a cool rich guy instead of a giant scam artist and liar who ruined his family and relationships for money
@@CassellGuardYT I wanted to make a sort of part two about wolf of wallstreet but realized most people who look up to Jordan Belfort realize he sucks but dc cuz they just want his success
When the people a movie/TV show is satirising begin playing into the joke (always unknowingly) that, for me, is a sign that it has done really well
@@grimftrite for me its the opposite. The whole point of the satire (for me) is to improve our current world and not just allow those in the know to give each other a big wink.. i do wonder though how obvious they need to be w their satire if all these kids are missing the point entirely..
@@George2647g if The Boys is anything to go by, satire can be as in-your-face as you can make it and the butts of the joke can still not get it
Great video proving how once again Oscar Wilds quote rings true: “Life imitates art far more than art imitates life”; arguing life craves kinds of expression found in great art.
Fight Club is a story about testicular cancer. Not joking.
It's also hilarious how Bateman is touted as an aspirational figure and "hard-working businessman" when he literally sits in his office doing nothing all day, got his job from his dad who runs the company, and is looked down upon by people who actually somewhat do menial jobs like managing accounts. His life consists of nitpicking over dinner reservations, doing drugs, drinking, torturing women, cheating on Evelyn, violence, curated hobbies he forces himself to have, and paranoia. He has no real friends or people who even like him. He is a pampered loser, and in the book, he is unfulfilled in the end, and the only difference is that he starts abusing his secretary, Jean, when they start dating; he alienates the one person who actually does somewhat have a real interest in him. He is one of the most miserable people in literature. He's an almost Dorian Gray-esque character, beautiful on the outside, but lusts for shallow pleasures of violence and hurting others because it's fascinating to him. However, in all these stories of bored, evil men; they end up destroying any chance at happiness they could've had and continue on a path of madness and self-destruction
To anyone who read the books: One time as a teenager as I joke in bed with my person I suddenly yelled at them to call me human butwipe. It... totally ruined the moment. To this day though, I'm still not sure that it wasn't worth the joke
LMAOOO
Great video! A part you didn't fully touch on is that these characters(Tyler Durden, Patrick Batemen) embody exactly what is missing from men's life. Most modern men lack masculinity (being told its toxic) And all these hyper-masculine figures like Andrew Tate and the characters in those movies serve them as idols because they are what young men want to be. They look up to Patrick Bateman because they look at his charisma and status and see him as a role model because they want to be like him in those aspects(which you mentioned), things which are not afforded to them naturally as they should. Andrew tate is incredibly popular(apart from being purposefully controversial) because he is the masculine male figure which they lack in their lives, which he is fully aware of, and profits off of. They dont idolize them out stupidity, instead because of deeper personal and societal problems.
And if it is the case that some people (which is entirely possible) look up to these figures for all their negative qualities, then yeah they're pretty stupid, but the fact that men even see something which they lack in them really says something about modern western society(as much of a meme that is). I don't think that if American Psycho came out in the 40s it would have even near the same cult following as it does now. Thought a character like him would be praised by young men during virtually any point in time, but not for the same reasons.
Also if you read the book american psycho, Bateman is a loser inside. He can't handle a simple date with the only girl he really cares about, he's a nepo baby who only works on Wall Street because his dad owns a firm (which he refuses to work at because, well, that would be too obvious) and he can't handle his workload from work. Everything he does is about projecting an image of success yet he has been handed everything in his life and can't achieve even a successful date with the girl he loves. Instead, he kills her after she rejects him.
this is a banger video
Patrick: Classical psychopath (not a real term anymore but it applies)
Tyler: Classical sociopath (ditto, we shouldn't stigmatize the mentally ill)
It's weird. I don't think they were looking up to him at first. They first identified with him because of his struggles and inner turmoil, their "literally me" character. Then they started trying to become more like him which clearly wasn't the point of the film. Same thing happened with Joker (2019) and other media.
Christian Bale’s real accent is a jump scare lmao. He is so good at the American accent
At the American Psycho premiere everyone on the films crew thought he was doing a fake accent because they'd only heard him in an American accent
I personally have a similar problem with the Shingeki no Kyojin manga/anime. The protagonist, Eren, was written in the final arc to be a textbook fasc*st and to be as hateable as possible, a cautionary tale against prejudice.
The reality? The fans of the series started to worship him. Scary stuff
The Patrick Bateman phenomenon was surprising BEFORE 1/3 of the US voted for Donald Trump. Now we know.
And it was "The Gordon Gecko Phenomenon" before that in the 80's when Oliver Stone's villain was worshiped by the aggressive young cowards of that time.
I think the problem is that “just be yourself” and “genuineness” have led people astray to the point they feel like faking everything and being Patrick Bateman is the better choice
This video's so good and meticulously crafted i wish it would never end
Good satire was always difficult, because absurdity is only recognized by people who recognize it as absurd. When Jonathan Swift wrote "A Modest Proposal" in 1729 there were people who actually thought it was a good idea. When All in the Family came out in the 70's many people did not see Archie Bunker as a character of ridicule. The problem with portraying character "types" in satire is that those types aren't drawn out of thin air, they are generally an amalgamation of people and personalities that the satirist has actually encountered so of course you're going to have people who see themselves in these characters.
the thing about fight club that people confuse all the time is that its not a calling to escape capitalism and embrace sigma lone wolf-ness. Its a call to escape mental slavery. Whether that be capitalistic, consumerism slavery, or alternate, rebellious slavery. You should just be yourself and live the way you want. You don't have to listen to others and look elsewhere for gratification and answers to your own unsolvable questions. You should be independent, but never isolate yourself
too many people think "satire" just means you tell bad jokes and then say "hey hey Im just kidding take a joke man!"
The "Red Pill" community want you to escape the Matrix you're in to enter the Matrix they built for you. How generous.
tl;dr you're not him
This video is actually amazing. Keep up the good work fr, made me actually think critically.
I love the irony at the end there
If they didn't want people to look up to Tyler Durden maybe they shouldn't have made him succeed. The dude basically wipes out ALL DEBT in the final scene and has people devoted to his cause in every major American city. If he is supposed to be a satire character who you are supposed to hate then he was written poorly because he is cool and also awesome. Its like expecting the audience to hate Rambo or Duke Nukem.
You're exactly the kind of person this video is about lmfai
Talk about proving the point
@@amanbirbthe4th967 I understand not looking up to American Psycho, he is clearly a loser. But I think the writers and directors of Fight club un-intentionally made the main "antagonist" more of a modern and more edgy Robin Hood. I get what they were going for but due to Tyler Durden's success in his endeavors they achieved the opposite.
It's not about looks or cool factor either, Tyler Durden could have been played by Danny DeVito and had a heavy lisp, but if he accomplished the same thing people still would have liked his character.
I'm not "that kind of person" I just have my own opinions on this movie.
Also you can dislike aspects of modern society without being obsessed with Andrew Tate or that other dude.
I think the initial premise of fight club (as I understood it) was pretty, let's say relatable, maybe understandable. Western civilization and values take all of durdens energy and give no satisfaction. He wants to escape. Now the group that he creates, mindless followers acting upon anger is where the problem lies. Again manipulated by a system, just a different one representing their carnal desires or whatever you may call it better. They think they're manly for bringing down big corporations and... I actually find myself agreeing with quite a bit I can't lie. But also, that's never going to change. I want to walk the way off Buddhism more, being content with less, being happy with myself and not keeping others "tied down" in my company. Self reflection is pretty hard for me alone to do. It's hard finding errors in your ways when the only one to talk to is yourself, so I'm getting a therapist right now. I mean sh*t, if Kendrick Lamar can self reflect and put it into words so well because of therapy, he must've done something right. Good luck y'all!
i don’t know who needs to hear this but we need doctors, teachers, skilled trade, engineers, etc and not people who sell online courses.
high quality as shit, nailed every point. ill defo be checking back for more vids
Peaky blinders, rick and morty. Its a big genre ironically
Highly good video I fully expected you to have more subs. My only suggestion is that the audio volume is a little inconsistent.
Watched this video and subbed when it only had 32 views and immediately knew it was gonna blow up. Film analysis videos like these are amazing and the way you very accurately compared the themes of toxic materialism to the real life "hustlers" was great. If you plan on making more videos like this I'll for sure watch!
Congrats!
"everybody wants to be rich, good looking, powerful"? ... eh, dude....? Powerful, definitely not what i want. Control over my life, i guess, sure, or at least control over how i react to the world, to others, control over my emotions and thoughts. i guess that's power.... good-looking, well, what does that accomplish? better be healthy and strong
Amazing video, this video has such high production value.
Fight club is not a satire lmao. Idk why this is parroted so much. Both the author of the book and the director have said repeatedly that it is neither a satire nor an endorsement of the ideas it perpetuates via Durden, it simply is.
Don’t forget ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’
i like how people put patrick bateman on the background of a message against lust/adultery and wrath/hatred
People consume lots of society ruining grade culture seriously portraying horrible behavior as normal or even desirable, it's natural that satire on that would be misunderstood.
I like Fight Club even if you see it as a satire or an adult fairytale it's enjoyable either way.
I honestly thought these screenplays were more of a critique on how badly society has shaped us. It's scary how much media (in every form) and culture has been used against us as a form of psychological warfare. The common theme I see is that work burnout -- especially in finance -- is a real thing. At least the cycle keeps us all busy, consuming and devoid of questioning our circumstances.
@@r0bo11 yeah…let’s just say there’s not many things i’d say i’d rather be a slave to capitalism to
Pretty sure the whole 'sigma' male is entirely ironic, at least it was originally. I don't think the whole 'literally me' is supposed to be taken seriously at all. At least in the west, the only place I've seen the whole sigma male thing taken seriously is among Indians.
Tate et al are just grifters, don't even think they believe all the garbo they say.
No, total aspects of it are fully satire, but the redpill part of that community definitely isn’t
Ay man, great video, good humor aswell. Keep going
What makes it better is the paralelism. If you look at sneako compared with tyler durdeen they started with a good idea and a purpose but then just created basically a hivemind of people.
Critiquing the pitfalls of modern masculinity isn’t necessarily satire, where is the joke. The problem is that you can’t save disenfranchisement without admitting you are being control and that you need to fix that before you are free. Basically it’s a critique of a modern male that learns about masculinity and how they will interpret it. You seeing the toxicity of the message you are seeing comes from your modern mass world view. You can’t give yourself a new identity will still being controlled, you have to give yourself a placeholder state, like the X in Malcolm X. By splitting your past and future self over a change in identification you can rewrite yourself as a new person and once they are actualized you can assume that form free of past controls. This is the same exact reason why people like roleplaying or trans people change their name, it’s easier to start a new identity hard stop than it is to fight against all of the momentum of your past
Everybody knows that the 90s movies is about even if your rich your miserable.
its a cycle, the movies are a part of that cycle
Goddammit, we really did let him win, didn't we?
I don't do this sort of thing often in comment sections but I only half agree with you, because fight club is a piece of media and we all have and are entitled to opinions and how we perceive media. I think fight club is less satirical and more direct, it's not about going from one controller to the next or about letting go, its about people wanting to change and how they will blindly follow something that gives them what they want ,regardless of consequence or what they even have to actually do. I will make a video about it myself at some point you have inspired me to do so and keep up the good work man. 👍
You definatly pissed of some people. Great talk
2.6K likes against 1.9K dislikes, he definitely did
HE DID THE SIGMA FACE HE DID THE SIGMA FACE OH MY GOSH IM RELEASING AHHHHH
It’s basically a case of an In-Group vs Out-Group mentality. Anyone movement that claims to be non conformist ends up being the opposite. If you don’t follow a certain set of values or wear specific clothes then you’re ostracised from that community. Punk Rock culture is a great example of that.
I have kinda same issue with telling “I love *movie name*”. The problem is that I actually can relate to characters, but the point is not because they are “cool” or something, nah, quite the opposite. I diagnosed with autism (Asperger) and PTSD, so when I see the Narrator experience, the main character from “Shutter island” or Travis from Taxi Driver exedra (Don’t know about Patrick, Neo, Homelander, Derden, such, it’s something else and the… “Red pilled” community make it seem cool or funny, but that’s just broken or/and ill persons), I feel like watching in mirror. I’m not proud to be feel in that way, but at least I feel I’m not alone you know, but at the same time I can feel disgusted or disturbed or whatever. Btw sorry for bad english, not my native. Tbh I feel ashamed anyway, but I hope you get it.
Also about Matrix, I mean the brothers… or sisters now I guess? Not important, they made movie long ago so ofc they will now say that’s the movie was actually about trans people or whatever, but that’s feel stupid just like most of “redpilled’s” essays too.
Great ivdeo man! Such a cool video from a new and upcoming channel.
I just realized that Midsommar is the female equivalent of this genre but I can't think of any other examples. Maybe women are just less gullible about these things.
There is a deluge of "why doesn't anyone realize American Psycho/Fight Club/Starship Troopers is satire?" takes, but very few examples of admiration that isn't satire itself. And this breakdown of Fight Club doesn't feel very insightful, like you watched them passively or something. Durden didn't exist, but it is likely that neither Marla, Bob, Project Mayhem, or even the house (Paper Street, get it?) existed either. Bateman wasn't actually a killer. The people legitimately admiring the characters have likely never watched the movies and only seen memes.
If you're just talking about young men being impressionable and image obsessed, then whatever, banal stuff, but if you are upset that they aren't analyzing the movies correctly then you need to be careful with how you do it too. Art that gets released into the world and no longer belongs to the artist. Later generations are going to see it in different context that is not predictable. You end with "everyone wants to be good-looking, rich, powerful, and have an axis of social gratification," and that, in the context of this topic, may be revealing more about you than the Tate kids.
It's crazy how much people miss the point of the movie, but in the other hand the majority of the people that missed the point are 14 year olds that watched an entire FPY of cringe edits that make fun of something they don't agree with.
"Christian bale almost turned down the role" that just isn't true though, despite being paid less than his make up artists, Christian was still willing to do the role because the source material resonated with him
You're right, he was paranoid of what's happening in current culture around Bateman now, but he was VERY passionate about the project for years.
Bruh why is this underrated(obviously im going to either misinterpret your video due to anchoring effect selective bias or forget about this video because its easier to just follow someone or something even though ive watched 100 of interpretation of books movies and series about the problems of consumerism redpill bs niechzhe[long moustache guy] ) hope u succeed in something 👅
Small channels popping up, BRO KEEP WORKING PERFECT!!!
Dude we didnt let Patrick win. Listen to the interview. He was already winning when he was created. Shallow and crude people were already in charge back then, thats why this satire was needed so much.
American Physcho was written by 2 lesbians as well, this is purely a satirazation of a toxic male and they aparently hit it right on the head
Guys would get SO MAD when I said that American Psycho was my favourite comedy and that is a thriller/comedy satire not a serious movie. Like, they take it so seriously and it was so obviously a satire making fun of Wall Street yuppie types. The insecure people who take it seriously are ironically the same people that the movie is addressing 😂
It’s making fun of this psycho dude who thinks he’s the best thing since sliced bread but he’s actually just a soulless person living a sad life of materialism covered by a thin veneer of faux morals and personality. The fact people took it seriously show the poor media literacy of Americans, and also the fact that the movie is really good and ahead of its time. The interview with Christian Bale about the movie was also good.
Most people would really only care about vibes and aesthetics without ever trying to understand the actual meaning of something
how is this video so good and high cuality with so few views
absolutely amazing video!
2:57 brother that is literally masculinity. And it’s why I distance myself from it.
me and my dad literally had a debate on if it was a debate
10:00 "if you don't think for yourself, someone else will. And you'll just become a slave to their word." thanks for the word. (yea, i skipped to the end)
It’s something called interpretation, something that has always been important when it comes to art. Not all pieces have or successfully convey the artist’s message or personal views. This is the problem with mass media, “individual” thought is becoming more and more scarce. Now, is someone else’s personal thoughts on a movie more wrong or correct than your own? No. Fight club, has helped men overcome ruts and self hatred, the characters are more than one dimensional. Sure, you’ll have tik tok brains absolutely blowing one side out of proportion, but it’s the side that spoke to them. We can enjoy and relate to conflicting characters, because we ourselves are complex. There wouldn’t be any stories worth telling if they all have the same archetype of good and better.