"It was Alpharius's opinion that he was Alpharius all along, this is a lie, Alpharius was always Alpharius until he was not. But this is also a lie, Alpharius is Alpharius, and this is well known... as a lie. So, to summarize, I am Alpharius, but this is a lie. You are, in fact, Alpharius. But this is a lie. Alpharius was in fact Omegon who was in turn Alpharius, but this is a lie, if in fact you believe that Omegon was Alpharius and not, in fact, Omegon merely pretending to be Alpharius because...(this continues for five more hours)"
Dorn, on Omegon: Deceptively dense... entrapping, more than capable of knocking out a few of my teeth. Surprisingly worthy. Imperial Fist: What do you mean, my lord? Did you respect him? Dorn, on Omegon: What? No, of course not. Talking about his skull. Look how many teeth were taken from my beloved Storm's Teeth from biting it.
As I've gotten older I've become more respectful of Dorn. He would rather be doing anything else, but is willing to bear the burden placed on him. He became my favorite primarch when I realized during the heresy that it seemed like the loyalists were going to lose and Dorn never falters. I also want to add that at the end of the heresy, when chaos tries to trick him, he beats the temptations to succumb by being so boring that the chaos gods give up. He's like an accountant that becomes a general.😊
The siege defence is like his biggest moment in the lore, and thankfully justice was done for Dorn and the Imperial Fists. And yeah, the whole chaos temptation made his cojones look ten times bigger...
Sanguinis and Dorn are my two favorite Primarchs because they were the two Primarchs that best understood what The Great Crusade meant for humanity. But from two completely opposite points of view, Dorn saw the macrocosm and how it would affect humanity as a whole. While Sanguinius saw the microcosm and how it would affect each person individually.
I don’t think so, I think they’re polar opposites in nature, only Perturabo was forced into a similar role. I think Perturabo actually had more in common with Guiliman. Dorn spends all his time building up the walls, Perturabo throws as much concentrated firepower as can be maintained by autistically managed supply lines at the problem, breaking it down one segment at a time.
I honestly think assessing them as if they were real, had they been made to split the duties of sieging and fortifying, both would have been happy maybe even both moreso than just doing one or the other even getting a preferred role. Destroying is the best way to learn new weaknesses to shore up. Building is the best way to recognize what weaknesses are being concealed. Both would have been even better at their job because of it, and had a less stressful schedule. The emperor's "I swear im not on the spectrum guys I just like patterns a lot" behavior made things the way they went. "I know you're superhumans with limitless potential but I SAID ONE PRIMARCH ONE JOB WHY WONT YOU LISTEN TO ME" -The emperor during one of his "please be patient with me" outbursts.
I know in Lion's Primarch book, he compliments one of his sons on his efforts to secure a fortress/island area saying that 'even his brother Dorn' would have approved of his efforts,; suggesting that Lion clearly thought highly of his brother, despite any early tensions. I can't recall where I sourced another reference where Lion was permitted onboard the Phalanx without question. Now, that's not to say any other primarch would be stopped to have their ID checked or whatever (LOL) but whatever Dorn thought of Lion's personality, he was 100% convinced of his integrity. I caught Dorns acidic tone when, during the siege 'the Lion did not make it' but I felt like that was assuaged a bit when Corswain arrived and Dorn realized that Lion, Rob and the others were likely being held back. Dorn is definately a by-the-numbers guy though so I think Lion would grind his gears a bit, given his at-times maverick and indeed, secret ways.
I loved Russ and Dorn. Russ frustrates Dorn, Dorn says why, and because it's true Russ shows he's self-aware by being casually accepting of it rather than insulted by it. Just like when he got into a fight with Lion and ended up laughing about it when the absurdity finally hit him.
In the sigismund book, there was definitely a disagreement between ferris and dorn. And sogismund had to duel an iron hand champion to resolve the matter
Lion was one of only three Primarch brothers Dorn allowed to enter the temple of Oaths so he clearly had a great deal pf reapect for him even if they disagreed often. And after the Siege of Terra, Lion Russ and Dorn all swore an oath to never fight each other.
Its irony that dorn genuinely praise Petrabo being the only one who could defeat him. If only petrabo choose to stay, he may got what he searching for " acknowlege by someone"
I can see Perturabo doing the "I hate you!" scene from the Jim Carrey Grinch movie The Lion- I HATE YOU! Fulgrim- I HATE YOU! Khan- I HATE YOU! Russ- I HATE YOU! Dorn- I LOOOATHE YOU!!!!!!!
There's some nuance lost in the relationship between Dorn and Perturabo. They used to wargame with each other, with Perturabo "losing" to Dorn either deliberately ot not. At the Siege of Terra Dorn would go to Bab Bastion and meditate, lettiyhis mind empty; a technique he learnt from Perturabo. Their relationship devolved due to Perturabo's ego being unable to accept the praise heaped on Dorn, but it was certainly a complicated one before this point
There's more to the Dorn/Ferrus relationship in Sigismund's book. Sigismund has to stand as Dorn's Champion in a duel after another altercation between the two. It should surprise no one that the language of physical combat was the means through which those two seemed to communicate most often. I doubt it would have led to any ill will-- I can't recall with absolute certainty but I think Ferrus, for his part, comes out of that particular spat in Sigismund almost laughing about it, and amused at having got Dorn to lose his temper. Those two just were a lot better at communicating with action than they were at talking anything out.
2:42 I’ve heard this part three times and I still don’t know who is making what point. If you’re reading dialogue can you please insert “he said” style text, or perhaps use a slightly different voice so that we know when the speaker has changed? We don’t have the benefit of seeing the text before us.
Good series! Konrad didn't intend to attack Dorn, I think, only his fugue came upon him. When he came back to sanity, he was weeping for what he'd done. Understandable that Dorn got his own version of PTSD, if I may say that.
Just the opinion of a casual fan, but it seems that while many of the Primarchs are warriors, Dorn is a soldier. Probably why he had issius with some like the Khan, Lion, and Russ.
If only the Emperor had showed as much compassion and empathy as Sanguinius towards the primarchs, the entire Heresy likely could have been avoided and a true golden age of peace could have been achieved
Dorns autism and the Lions uncontrolled ego are a fantastic combination. The interaction where Rogal dunks on the Lion so hard that the Lion throws a fit and wants to fight him lmao, Lion got so triggered. Lmao, boy does that remind me of a lot of conversations I've had in real life.
It's not ego. Mostly not. Dorn projects his insecurities onto others. How many Primarchs would take that slander. Russ? Manus? The Lion was given tremendous responsibility by the Emperor. To have that responsibility and act upon it doesn't equate to ego. It's not arrogance if MJ or Brady think they can win. That they know best. Nope. The Lion left more world's conquered than any two of his brothers.
@sbeaber I feel like people often forget that the Lion's perceived arrogance was entirely down to the fact that he had a relatively accurate read of his own abilities and those of his brothers. When the Lion said he was better at something, he was far, far more often than not, correct. He was the best strategist sans maybe Dorn or Roboute, and the best duelist sans perhaps the Angel. He wasn't even really an asshole, he was just very blunt when, indeed, he saw fit to speak at all. That brutal honesty paired with his immense intensity, inborn secrecy, and his notable presence (even by the standards of the primarchs) meant he had few friends among his brothers, not that he had much interest in friendship while there were wars to be waged.
I think there should have been more in the Perturabo section about Dorn trying to work with Perturabo - remember in Saturnine, where Perturabo tells Abbadon about where he learned to step away from the battlefield from Dorn, and there was a great deal of respect from Perturabo towards Dorn? There was a time when Dorn would teach Perturabo important lessons about battlefield management when Perturabo simply asked him - not the actions one would expect of a relationship that was depicted as almost entirely Jealousy and Grudging Respect (from a long distance and noted almost solely out of self=respect). That could have been a bit more noted in this video. Instead, it leaned too much into the Hate between the two, when other ones - like Fulgrim - was far more in-depth pre-heresy. Other than that, nice video.
Did I get the order wrong, or was Dorn proposing a quick, decisive strike, while Lion suggested caution and planning? I must have, because that sounds entirely backward. I believe Lion would paraphrase a general from late M1 in criticism of Dorn, stating that plans were overrated, as no plan survived contact with the enemy. Dorn replied that Lion was making the wrong plans.
@@89Keith he's not great, either, but at least his legion didn't get wiped out, and lost a pivotal battle that could've spelled the end of the Imperium.
I can't wait for Alpharius's opinion of Alpharius
"It was Alpharius's opinion that he was Alpharius all along, this is a lie, Alpharius was always Alpharius until he was not. But this is also a lie, Alpharius is Alpharius, and this is well known... as a lie. So, to summarize, I am Alpharius, but this is a lie. You are, in fact, Alpharius. But this is a lie. Alpharius was in fact Omegon who was in turn Alpharius, but this is a lie, if in fact you believe that Omegon was Alpharius and not, in fact, Omegon merely pretending to be Alpharius because...(this continues for five more hours)"
What do you want to know? I am Alpharius.
@@automatics1im
Is Cato Sicarius a deep state Alpha Legion plant?
Sicarius? Alpharius?
Coincidence? I think not
I also want to hear my opinion of myself.
*Spiderman pointing meme*
The only thing Dorn ever failed to calculate was how to react to was the hug from his beloved brother Sanguinius.
Dorn, on Omegon: Deceptively dense... entrapping, more than capable of knocking out a few of my teeth. Surprisingly worthy.
Imperial Fist: What do you mean, my lord? Did you respect him?
Dorn, on Omegon: What? No, of course not. Talking about his skull. Look how many teeth were taken from my beloved Storm's Teeth from biting it.
LoL
This got a good chuckle out of me
As I've gotten older I've become more respectful of Dorn. He would rather be doing anything else, but is willing to bear the burden placed on him. He became my favorite primarch when I realized during the heresy that it seemed like the loyalists were going to lose and Dorn never falters. I also want to add that at the end of the heresy, when chaos tries to trick him, he beats the temptations to succumb by being so boring that the chaos gods give up. He's like an accountant that becomes a general.😊
"This again!?" made me laugh. Rogal reciting military tactics for thousands of years, managing to bore a Chaos God to death. 😅
The siege defence is like his biggest moment in the lore, and thankfully justice was done for Dorn and the Imperial Fists. And yeah, the whole chaos temptation made his cojones look ten times bigger...
Sanguinis and Dorn are my two favorite Primarchs because they were the two Primarchs that best understood what The Great Crusade meant for humanity. But from two completely opposite points of view, Dorn saw the macrocosm and how it would affect humanity as a whole. While Sanguinius saw the microcosm and how it would affect each person individually.
Dorn and Perturabo were TOO similar.
Like two magnets of identical charge, they would have repelled one another.
I don’t think so, I think they’re polar opposites in nature, only Perturabo was forced into a similar role. I think Perturabo actually had more in common with Guiliman. Dorn spends all his time building up the walls, Perturabo throws as much concentrated firepower as can be maintained by autistically managed supply lines at the problem, breaking it down one segment at a time.
Look at pollux and Dantioch. That is what Dorn and perturabo could have been
I honestly think assessing them as if they were real, had they been made to split the duties of sieging and fortifying, both would have been happy maybe even both moreso than just doing one or the other even getting a preferred role. Destroying is the best way to learn new weaknesses to shore up. Building is the best way to recognize what weaknesses are being concealed. Both would have been even better at their job because of it, and had a less stressful schedule.
The emperor's "I swear im not on the spectrum guys I just like patterns a lot" behavior made things the way they went.
"I know you're superhumans with limitless potential but I SAID ONE PRIMARCH ONE JOB WHY WONT YOU LISTEN TO ME"
-The emperor during one of his "please be patient with me" outbursts.
Would love to see "Rogal Dorn's impression of every primarch"!
Sanguinius was taken from us too early….
We didn't deserve him anyway...
Imagine being another Primarch and trying to disagree with Dorn whenever Sigismund was there.
"Rogal, we can't just-"
"Duel."
"Goddammit."
I know in Lion's Primarch book, he compliments one of his sons on his efforts to secure a fortress/island area saying that 'even his brother Dorn' would have approved of his efforts,; suggesting that Lion clearly thought highly of his brother, despite any early tensions. I can't recall where I sourced another reference where Lion was permitted onboard the Phalanx without question. Now, that's not to say any other primarch would be stopped to have their ID checked or whatever (LOL) but whatever Dorn thought of Lion's personality, he was 100% convinced of his integrity. I caught Dorns acidic tone when, during the siege 'the Lion did not make it' but I felt like that was assuaged a bit when Corswain arrived and Dorn realized that Lion, Rob and the others were likely being held back. Dorn is definately a by-the-numbers guy though so I think Lion would grind his gears a bit, given his at-times maverick and indeed, secret ways.
Hope you do Peter turbo next!!
Love the in depth video and lore. Thank you !
I loved Russ and Dorn. Russ frustrates Dorn, Dorn says why, and because it's true Russ shows he's self-aware by being casually accepting of it rather than insulted by it. Just like when he got into a fight with Lion and ended up laughing about it when the absurdity finally hit him.
In the sigismund book, there was definitely a disagreement between ferris and dorn. And sogismund had to duel an iron hand champion to resolve the matter
Rogal Dorn is my favourite Primarch. Absolutely love him.
Last time I was this early the Gorgon still had his head.
Too soon man
Always good to get some Rho after clocking for the day . Dorn and The black templars are my boys, well they and the sons of the Angel as well . ;)
I think you should add timestamps for the Primarchs
Lion was one of only three Primarch brothers Dorn allowed to enter the temple of Oaths so he clearly had a great deal pf reapect for him even if they disagreed often. And after the Siege of Terra, Lion Russ and Dorn all swore an oath to never fight each other.
I saw Dorn in the title..I clicked without reading more. Why? DORN!!
FOR DORN!!!!
Its irony that dorn genuinely praise Petrabo being the only one who could defeat him. If only petrabo choose to stay, he may got what he searching for " acknowlege by someone"
Now this is what ive been waiting for
We definitely need a book series The Great Crusade! 😁
I can see Perturabo doing the "I hate you!" scene from the Jim Carrey Grinch movie
The Lion- I HATE YOU!
Fulgrim- I HATE YOU!
Khan- I HATE YOU!
Russ- I HATE YOU!
Dorn- I LOOOATHE YOU!!!!!!!
There's some nuance lost in the relationship between Dorn and Perturabo. They used to wargame with each other, with Perturabo "losing" to Dorn either deliberately ot not. At the Siege of Terra Dorn would go to Bab Bastion and meditate, lettiyhis mind empty; a technique he learnt from Perturabo. Their relationship devolved due to Perturabo's ego being unable to accept the praise heaped on Dorn, but it was certainly a complicated one before this point
Ferrus seems like a dude who would absolutely have respect for someone after a proper punch out.
Not necessarily
Only if you dont lose
There's more to the Dorn/Ferrus relationship in Sigismund's book. Sigismund has to stand as Dorn's Champion in a duel after another altercation between the two.
It should surprise no one that the language of physical combat was the means through which those two seemed to communicate most often. I doubt it would have led to any ill will-- I can't recall with absolute certainty but I think Ferrus, for his part, comes out of that particular spat in Sigismund almost laughing about it, and amused at having got Dorn to lose his temper.
Those two just were a lot better at communicating with action than they were at talking anything out.
Loved this video
I can't wait for perty part view on his brothers.
2:42 I’ve heard this part three times and I still don’t know who is making what point. If you’re reading dialogue can you please insert “he said” style text, or perhaps use a slightly different voice so that we know when the speaker has changed? We don’t have the benefit of seeing the text before us.
We need SuperAnchors to do a skit.
Good series!
Konrad didn't intend to attack Dorn, I think, only his fugue came upon him. When he came back to sanity, he was weeping for what he'd done. Understandable that Dorn got his own version of PTSD, if I may say that.
I love this!!! 🎉
Just the opinion of a casual fan, but it seems that while many of the Primarchs are warriors, Dorn is a soldier. Probably why he had issius with some like the Khan, Lion, and Russ.
I always wondered what Rogal thought about Konrad's visions when the Heresy broke out.
If only the Emperor had showed as much compassion and empathy as Sanguinius towards the primarchs, the entire Heresy likely could have been avoided and a true golden age of peace could have been achieved
Rolf lord Who here reminding everyone to like, subscribe, and leave a comment for the algorithm gods.
Dorns autism and the Lions uncontrolled ego are a fantastic combination. The interaction where Rogal dunks on the Lion so hard that the Lion throws a fit and wants to fight him lmao, Lion got so triggered. Lmao, boy does that remind me of a lot of conversations I've had in real life.
What book?
It's not ego. Mostly not.
Dorn projects his insecurities onto others.
How many Primarchs would take that slander. Russ? Manus?
The Lion was given tremendous responsibility by the Emperor. To have that responsibility and act upon it doesn't equate to ego. It's not arrogance if MJ or Brady think they can win. That they know best. Nope.
The Lion left more world's conquered than any two of his brothers.
@@alastor8091Dorn's Primarch book.
@sbeaber I feel like people often forget that the Lion's perceived arrogance was entirely down to the fact that he had a relatively accurate read of his own abilities and those of his brothers. When the Lion said he was better at something, he was far, far more often than not, correct. He was the best strategist sans maybe Dorn or Roboute, and the best duelist sans perhaps the Angel. He wasn't even really an asshole, he was just very blunt when, indeed, he saw fit to speak at all. That brutal honesty paired with his immense intensity, inborn secrecy, and his notable presence (even by the standards of the primarchs) meant he had few friends among his brothers, not that he had much interest in friendship while there were wars to be waged.
@@Mr.Monacle outside of Primarch of the First, what Lion books should I read for maximum Johnson glazing?
Finally, an opinion that matters, rather than Magnus' whining.
I want to know Dorns opinion of Valrak!
Not his kid.
I take this burden of this evil upon myself, and I will not fear it, for I am FEAR INCARNATE! -- Curze.
I think there should have been more in the Perturabo section about Dorn trying to work with Perturabo - remember in Saturnine, where Perturabo tells Abbadon about where he learned to step away from the battlefield from Dorn, and there was a great deal of respect from Perturabo towards Dorn? There was a time when Dorn would teach Perturabo important lessons about battlefield management when Perturabo simply asked him - not the actions one would expect of a relationship that was depicted as almost entirely Jealousy and Grudging Respect (from a long distance and noted almost solely out of self=respect). That could have been a bit more noted in this video. Instead, it leaned too much into the Hate between the two, when other ones - like Fulgrim - was far more in-depth pre-heresy.
Other than that, nice video.
Idk, just because therw was a few good moments with someone doesn't mean they're still not a turbo dickhead.
Rogal’s opinion of Alpharius: not, uh, great.
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Dorn has only been crusading 11 years longer than the Lion.
👍
Cant waitfor the lion. As heard rumour jag was his close brother
Did I get the order wrong, or was Dorn proposing a quick, decisive strike, while Lion suggested caution and planning? I must have, because that sounds entirely backward. I believe Lion would paraphrase a general from late M1 in criticism of Dorn, stating that plans were overrated, as no plan survived contact with the enemy. Dorn replied that Lion was making the wrong plans.
Dorn legit didn't know his criticism of Lion's tactics were a slight. It was more "i see the flaws. I dont believe you dont, respectfully. "
When you include their thoughts about the Primarchs- make sure to include Constantin Valdour
Worf roe row
obviously the emperor was gay and didnt want daughters
His primarch novel sucked.
I don't even consider it canon.
Rogal dorn, the dumbest primarch ever.
Nfi W⚓️
@@HornetDaz1979 wtf does that mean?
Ferris and Dorn: the two most incompetent Primarchs.
Nah, that's got to be Russ
I'd say Lorgar and Konrad.
Sadly.
Nfi W⚓️
@@89Keith he's not great, either, but at least his legion didn't get wiped out, and lost a pivotal battle that could've spelled the end of the Imperium.
@@shadow-monger5189 Lorgar's still got his Legion. Konrad was just stupid, and let himself get killed to prove a point.
For The Lion!