I think a good guitar is the one responsive to the demand of our musical expression. Some guitars, even the expensive ones, simply don't let you go to where you want to go. It has their limitations. The loudness gives you a better dynamic range. It gives you a wider spacing between pp and ff for example. A good guitar gives a better range of tone colours when you shift your RH position along the string. The tone colour and volume of a very good guitar, PB for example, are almost the same from the 1st to higher up with the same RH positioning.
Thanks for taking time to explain these concept, it is inspiring. Reminded me of a vintage guitar I acquired lately, which opened my mind on what it means by enjoying playing a phrase on a specific guitar because of the endless wild imagination from note roundness and accompanying harmonics. The other guitars I owned give dull sound on single note, never had I imagined that it is possible for a single guitar note to sound so full and complex.
You're welcome. Another thing interesting in getting that beautiful sound is the age of your instrument and therefore the age of the wood on it. I think definitely that takes part in that beautiful sound.
Some 17 years ago, jealous of a pro guitarist that I heard playing with a powerful Smallman copy, I bought one myself. I invited a musician friend that day and started playing my old Spanish and the new . When my friend started playing with a pick or giving the tempo by accompaning, the guitar sounded good. As long as I started playing solo, I didnt like it at all. It was also very heavy and the pulsation was rather hard. Monday morning the guitar was returned. The note thickness and roundness, together with the sustained nuances that arise from the inner core of a tradional guitar top, is incomparable to almost all of the new generation DT or lattice braced ones. As a result, many of the lattice braced guitar builders, have recently been using thicker tops on their instruments. One more educative video. Well-done and Regards from Athens !
Very interesting Nikos. I had similar experiences as you several times with these guitars. Anyway I am still open to seeing and playing any of those guitars and see that it can really catch my attention and like it very much. But still waiting for that moment.
@@maderaguitarras I also stayed away a bit from the lattice braced classical guitars as to my opinion the Smallman's are sounding a bit nosey but I would advice you to listen to the guitars built by the Italian luthier Paula Lazzarini. I was really impressed by her lattice guitars!
From my experience, double tops and lattices don’t sound much louder than a traditional guitar in a concert hall especially when you sit at the back. I have tested this with my friend, the traditional guitar sounds clearly clearer
Hi Alberto! I just came across your YT channel recently and I really enjoy it. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I lived in Granada for a few months in 2008. It's one of the most beautiful and powerful places I've been in my life. Anyways... Speaking of volume and projection, in concert violins for example, we see an amazing quality that I would imagine applies to guitars as well. My wife is an incredible violinist and I've always wondered how she is not deaf. The violin is so loud! Well, it turns out that a great violin should sound softer to the person playing it than the person in front of them. And a great concert violin (one of the reasons Strads are so desired for soloists), doesn't necessarily sound louder than many other great violins 3 meters away, but it will definitely sound louder when 20 meters away. It's an instrument that needs to sound over the orchestra in all places of a big hall. There are some cool videos talking about this. One of them is by a couple of guys who have a great (goofy, but great) channel called TwoSet Violin. They have a video comparing 5 "great" violins vs 5 "incredible" violins. Anyways... I can talk about guitars and sound all day. It would be interesting to know from you if and how this "phenomenon" occurs in guitars. I'm from Colombia btw and wanted to write in Spanish but thought that maybe some english speakers would appreciate this specific topic. Cheers!
Unfortunately the louder modern guitars just don’t have the traditional sound. Many sound nasally exactly because of what makes them so powerful limits the beautiful sound characteristics that made the instrument so popular. It’s a trade off.
The answer is: microphones. I've heard a concert with John Willams playing in Paris, salle Olivier Messiaen Maison de la Radio with a gauge of 840 places and the sound was perfect from one of the last rank of seats.
I do not agree with you here Christian. I also remember when I went to see a John Williams concert in London playing his Smallman guitar in the late 90's in a church. The sound was amplified. And it was a huge sound, very "impressive". Imagine in a church and amplified! I remember that a few months earlier at the Music College in London too, at a masterclass a guitarist who gave the masterclass came with a Smallman guitar and we had the opportunity to play it. When I heard the Smallman guitar in the church played by Williams the sound had little to do with the sound I remembered from playing that guitar. Apart of he is an excellent guitarist and can play so well the Smallman guitar there amplified sounded like a different instrument. It kind of was! When you amplify the guitar you stop hearing the original sound of the guitar and you hear the quality of the microphone, the mic preamp, the speakers, the skills of the engineer who manages the amplification, etc. etc. When I go to a guitar concert and as a lover of the guitar instrument, one of the main things I want to hear is the original sound of the guitar and the sound qualities of the guitar and the impressions and feelings it can produce in me. Amplification prevents me from hear and feel this. Allow me this simile to explain myself. It's a bit like whether I prefer to see a Vermeer painting for example on a very large digital screen with a very high resolution of 4K with very vivid colors (not the original ones) that impresses a lot or to go and see the original small painting. I will always prefer to go and see the original small painting and see what impressions I get from seeing it live. If you are only interested in seeing the guitarist play, maybe I can understand a bit more that the guitar is amplified. But neither because the amplification helps to hide or enhance the guitarist's skills (as it does with the guitar) and you also miss out on the guitarist's ability to bring out all that the guitar can produce in a natural way. I always prefer and very much want to hear the original sound of the guitar in a concert. A few years ago I went to see a concert of a guitarist who played an Antonio de Torres guitar. I was excited to be able to hear the sound of that guitar of that so famous and important guitar maker in history in concert. When I arrived the guitar had a mic and amplified. What a huge disappointment!! :)
@@maderaguitarras I Said I've Heard John Williams in concert Hall and the sound was lightly amplified by 2 microphones. It was in the Maison de la Radio at Paris and I presume the sound engineer knowed his job!
@@maderaguitarras The most important in a concert is the music. The sound of an instrument also is important acording to the musician's quality of playing...
Yes Christian, I'm sure John Williams' sound engineer was one of the best in the world at amplifying classical guitars. But that is actually the "problem". That sound engineer with the right equipment can make a guitar sound fantastic whether it's a 500 dollars factory guitar or a 20,000 dollars luthier guitar. That's why for me, that one of the main purposes of going to a classical guitar concert is to hear live the original natural sound of the guitar and the qualities of this guitar, if it is amplified I can't hear that. So for me, the concert would have been much more interesting if I could also hear the natural sound of the guitar apart of enjoying the great playing of Williams. I don't know if you see my point.
Excellent explanation. I'm not a professional but I'd ALWAYS go for the better sounding Guitar. If that means an audience of 10 instead of 100 then that's fine by me. Question: What about playing when playing outside? I feel like most of the sound bleeds away after only a few meters.
Thanks!. Playing outside with Spanish guitar is the way it is. The instrument has its limitations and those limitations also make it unique and so amazing instrument. So outside you probably need a mic for a large audience. But mics destroy original sound so you will need to accept that that sounds with mic will be "another thing" . That's my opinion.
In a typical classical guitar concert venue, which often seems to be a church, where would you recommend an audience member sit? Where is the sweet spot in most cases?
it depends on the guitar. If it's a traditionally made classical guitar I would sit in the very front rows to hear all the possible colors and subtleties of the guitar sound. But if your intention is also to want to hear the sound projection capacity of that guitar, then I would change the place and go (depending on the situation of the rows) quite a bit back. Let's say row 10/ back. if it's a modern construction guitar, those that have a lot of volume (double top, nomex...) I would never sit very near the guitar because it's kind of unpleasant to me. I would probably go to sit about half the hall location. I am talking always if the guitar is not amplified. If the guitar is amplified I will just go out of the concert hehe :)
There are various reasons to choose a specific guitar: Indeed the playability and sound at home from the position of the player. And indeed the projection can be mediocre at the same time for performances in larger venues. A third thing I would like to mention is the way instrument behaves in a recording process. And even a fourth thing to mention is that spruce topped guitars can act differently depending on the weather. Too much moisture or dryness in the air affects those guitars. But let's be honest: Amplified with a good condenser microphone almost any real quality guitar can be comfortable in larger halls. A lot of people won't agree but please, then throw your guitar CD's in the trash can as they all have been recorded with...... Condenser mics, preamps and so on....
I agree with you about the reasons to choose. About the cd's there is no other way to listen a cd that listening a guitar has been amplified. But there another choice for a live performance. Playing in a venue with good acoustic where we can listen the qualities of a guitar. I understand the performer sometimes has no choice than playing amplified in a not suitable place for non amplified guitar where organisers choose it, not him. But I will always like more and enjoy listening to a guitar much more with no amplification. The only way to listen to what the luthier was able to accomplish in the instrument. Better for me than what the mics, speakers, engineer, preamp, music softwares, hardwares... are able to accomplish.
Also how well a guitar “travels” matters! Some 🎉fine instruments are very sensitive to different humidities, and some modern instruments seem very stable.
Hi Bikash. In my opinion you need to compare the guitar makers more than the two guitar making styles flamenco/classical guitars. Between a normal classical guitar and a great flamenco guitar I will prefer the flamenco guitar even if it is to play classical musical on it. Another example. if you tell me to choose between one Smallman classical guitar and one Santos Hernández flamenco guitar to play classical music, for my taste, I will choose the Santos Hernández. It is also a question of the taste and preferences of each person.
In my opinion, one has to understand the maximum this type of instrument can accommodate & it is foolhardy to pretend otherwise, most definitely using amplification & possibly the type of instrument IF one possibly loses the beauty as suggested. Some have superb reproduction hifi systems & the recording was done with excellent acoustics & superb microphone etc, but it is never the actual sound as v though the guitarist is in the room. At the end of the day, this is an acoustic not electric instrument.
”Oh, this food tastes great - you must have a great stove..😊 Just kidding but wanted to add to your example when ones wants to buy the guitar of the master you just heard, its not only the guitar they also practice much play very well. One thing you forgot in this video is how playable the guitar is. A louder guitar can often be very unforgiving. I prefer old school guitar sounds and I have tried Fletas, Romanillos, Friedrich, Hauser and they were all very nice and very playable. I can’t own any of them of course. What I do now instead of searching for affordable concert guitars I try different flamenco guitars from Alhambra and such. Here I can find all I want for a 1000 Euros and if I want to play loud I pluck the strings with more force 😊
And actually if a guitarist wants himself to be heard well in a 1000 people hall, no guitar can do the job acoustically, mic is the only option. With today’s technology, good sounding guitars (referring to guitar one in video) with mic will sound better compare to the louder but not so good sounding guitar (referring to guitar two). Guitarists usually have to spend months to years to know a new instrument well enough, and different types of guitars do require different playing techniques, it’s too hard for me to imagine someone record with one and performs with another, not to mention a good mic is so much cheaper than buying another guitar.
About mic I don't like them. Using mics you are listening to the mic, the engineer, the mixing, the speakers, the preamp... It completely destroys the beauty of the natural sound of the guitar and the qualities of defects that guitar has. In a concert as a lover of the instrument I want to hear the guitar. For me It is so much disappointed going to a concert and suddenly a mic is there! I like small hall concerts or halls with exceptional acoustic qualities to hear what that guitar can produce.
Good point. Carles uses a very subtle low volume for the ampilification when playing in big halls. Probably the best way to amplify a classical guitar. But in my opinion even that I don't like it. I prefer he goes to smaller halls to be able to listen to the guitar without any kind of amplification and see the original sound. But it is true that especially for guitars like a Torres original instrument to be played in big halls is understandable he opts for that choice.
I think a good guitar is the one responsive to the demand of our musical expression. Some guitars, even the expensive ones, simply don't let you go to where you want to go. It has their limitations. The loudness gives you a better dynamic range. It gives you a wider spacing between pp and ff for example. A good guitar gives a better range of tone colours when you shift your RH position along the string. The tone colour and volume of a very good guitar, PB for example, are almost the same from the 1st to higher up with the same RH positioning.
What does it mean PB?
It means "Paulino Bernabé" @@maderaguitarras
Thanks for taking time to explain these concept, it is inspiring. Reminded me of a vintage guitar I acquired lately, which opened my mind on what it means by enjoying playing a phrase on a specific guitar because of the endless wild imagination from note roundness and accompanying harmonics. The other guitars I owned give dull sound on single note, never had I imagined that it is possible for a single guitar note to sound so full and complex.
You're welcome. Another thing interesting in getting that beautiful sound is the age of your instrument and therefore the age of the wood on it. I think definitely that takes part in that beautiful sound.
Some 17 years ago, jealous of a pro guitarist that I heard playing with a powerful Smallman copy, I bought one myself. I invited a musician friend that day and started playing my old Spanish and the new . When my friend started playing with a pick or giving the tempo by accompaning, the guitar sounded good. As long as I started playing solo, I didnt like it at all. It was also very heavy and the pulsation was rather hard. Monday morning the guitar was returned. The note thickness and roundness, together with the sustained nuances that arise from the inner core of a tradional guitar top, is incomparable to almost all of the new generation DT or lattice braced ones. As a result, many of the lattice braced guitar builders, have recently been using thicker tops on their instruments. One more educative video. Well-done and Regards from Athens !
Very interesting Nikos. I had similar experiences as you several times with these guitars. Anyway I am still open to seeing and playing any of those guitars and see that it can really catch my attention and like it very much. But still waiting for that moment.
@@maderaguitarras I also stayed away a bit from the lattice braced classical guitars as to my opinion
the Smallman's are sounding a bit nosey but I would advice you to listen to the guitars built by the
Italian luthier Paula Lazzarini. I was really impressed by her lattice guitars!
From my experience, double tops and lattices don’t sound much louder than a traditional guitar in a concert hall especially when you sit at the back. I have tested this with my friend, the traditional guitar sounds clearly clearer
Hi Alberto! I just came across your YT channel recently and I really enjoy it. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I lived in Granada for a few months in 2008. It's one of the most beautiful and powerful places I've been in my life. Anyways... Speaking of volume and projection, in concert violins for example, we see an amazing quality that I would imagine applies to guitars as well. My wife is an incredible violinist and I've always wondered how she is not deaf. The violin is so loud! Well, it turns out that a great violin should sound softer to the person playing it than the person in front of them. And a great concert violin (one of the reasons Strads are so desired for soloists), doesn't necessarily sound louder than many other great violins 3 meters away, but it will definitely sound louder when 20 meters away. It's an instrument that needs to sound over the orchestra in all places of a big hall. There are some cool videos talking about this. One of them is by a couple of guys who have a great (goofy, but great) channel called TwoSet Violin. They have a video comparing 5 "great" violins vs 5 "incredible" violins. Anyways... I can talk about guitars and sound all day. It would be interesting to know from you if and how this "phenomenon" occurs in guitars. I'm from Colombia btw and wanted to write in Spanish but thought that maybe some english speakers would appreciate this specific topic. Cheers!
Unfortunately the louder modern guitars just don’t have the traditional sound. Many sound nasally exactly because of what makes them so powerful limits the beautiful sound characteristics that made the instrument so popular. It’s a trade off.
Agree!
The answer is: microphones. I've heard a concert with John Willams playing in Paris, salle Olivier Messiaen Maison de la Radio with a gauge of 840 places and the sound was perfect from one of the last rank of seats.
I do not agree with you here Christian. I also remember when I went to see a John Williams concert in London playing his Smallman guitar in the late 90's in a church. The sound was amplified. And it was a huge sound, very "impressive". Imagine in a church and amplified! I remember that a few months earlier at the Music College in London too, at a masterclass a guitarist who gave the masterclass came with a Smallman guitar and we had the opportunity to play it. When I heard the Smallman guitar in the church played by Williams the sound had little to do with the sound I remembered from playing that guitar. Apart of he is an excellent guitarist and can play so well the Smallman guitar there amplified sounded like a different instrument. It kind of was!
When you amplify the guitar you stop hearing the original sound of the guitar and you hear the quality of the microphone, the mic preamp, the speakers, the skills of the engineer who manages the amplification, etc. etc. When I go to a guitar concert and as a lover of the guitar instrument, one of the main things I want to hear is the original sound of the guitar and the sound qualities of the guitar and the impressions and feelings it can produce in me. Amplification prevents me from hear and feel this.
Allow me this simile to explain myself. It's a bit like whether I prefer to see a Vermeer painting for example on a very large digital screen with a very high resolution of 4K with very vivid colors (not the original ones) that impresses a lot or to go and see the original small painting. I will always prefer to go and see the original small painting and see what impressions I get from seeing it live.
If you are only interested in seeing the guitarist play, maybe I can understand a bit more that the guitar is amplified. But neither because the amplification helps to hide or enhance the guitarist's skills (as it does with the guitar) and you also miss out on the guitarist's ability to bring out all that the guitar can produce in a natural way.
I always prefer and very much want to hear the original sound of the guitar in a concert.
A few years ago I went to see a concert of a guitarist who played an Antonio de Torres guitar. I was excited to be able to hear the sound of that guitar of that so famous and important guitar maker in history in concert. When I arrived the guitar had a mic and amplified. What a huge disappointment!! :)
@@maderaguitarras I Said I've Heard John Williams in concert Hall and the sound was lightly amplified by 2 microphones. It was in the Maison de la Radio at Paris and I presume the sound engineer knowed his job!
@@maderaguitarras The most important in a concert is the music. The sound of an instrument also is important acording to the musician's quality of playing...
Yes Christian, I'm sure John Williams' sound engineer was one of the best in the world at amplifying classical guitars. But that is actually the "problem". That sound engineer with the right equipment can make a guitar sound fantastic whether it's a 500 dollars factory guitar or a 20,000 dollars luthier guitar. That's why for me, that one of the main purposes of going to a classical guitar concert is to hear live the original natural sound of the guitar and the qualities of this guitar, if it is amplified I can't hear that. So for me, the concert would have been much more interesting if I could also hear the natural sound of the guitar apart of enjoying the great playing of Williams. I don't know if you see my point.
@@maderaguitarras The other solution: 100 people maximum watching and hearing the concert.
Excellent explanation. I'm not a professional but I'd ALWAYS go for the better sounding Guitar. If that means an audience of 10 instead of 100 then that's fine by me.
Question: What about playing when playing outside? I feel like most of the sound bleeds away after only a few meters.
Thanks!. Playing outside with Spanish guitar is the way it is. The instrument has its limitations and those limitations also make it unique and so amazing instrument. So outside you probably need a mic for a large audience. But mics destroy original sound so you will need to accept that that sounds with mic will be "another thing" . That's my opinion.
In a typical classical guitar concert venue, which often seems to be a church, where would you recommend an audience member sit? Where is the sweet spot in most cases?
it depends on the guitar. If it's a traditionally made classical guitar I would sit in the very front rows to hear all the possible colors and subtleties of the guitar sound. But if your intention is also to want to hear the sound projection capacity of that guitar, then I would change the place and go (depending on the situation of the rows) quite a bit back. Let's say row 10/ back. if it's a modern construction guitar, those that have a lot of volume (double top, nomex...) I would never sit very near the guitar because it's kind of unpleasant to me. I would probably go to sit about half the hall location. I am talking always if the guitar is not amplified. If the guitar is amplified I will just go out of the concert hehe :)
Karajan had a semi ciscle or even slightly behind him playing field
I recommend, if possible this instead of rows moving away
There are various reasons to choose a specific guitar: Indeed the playability and sound at home
from the position of the player. And indeed the projection can be mediocre at the same time for
performances in larger venues. A third thing I would like to mention is the way instrument behaves
in a recording process. And even a fourth thing to mention is that spruce topped guitars can act
differently depending on the weather. Too much moisture or dryness in the air affects those
guitars. But let's be honest: Amplified with a good condenser microphone almost any real quality
guitar can be comfortable in larger halls. A lot of people won't agree but please, then throw your
guitar CD's in the trash can as they all have been recorded with...... Condenser mics, preamps
and so on....
I agree with you about the reasons to choose. About the cd's there is no other way to listen a cd that listening a guitar has been amplified. But there another choice for a live performance. Playing in a venue with good acoustic where we can listen the qualities of a guitar. I understand the performer sometimes has no choice than playing amplified in a not suitable place for non amplified guitar where organisers choose it, not him. But I will always like more and enjoy listening to a guitar much more with no amplification. The only way to listen to what the luthier was able to accomplish in the instrument. Better for me than what the mics, speakers, engineer, preamp, music softwares, hardwares... are able to accomplish.
Also how well a guitar “travels” matters!
Some 🎉fine instruments are very sensitive to different humidities, and some modern instruments seem very stable.
That's a good point 👌👍
According to you which guitar is the best with all the important qualities you have discussed which has adequate volume also.
Thank you. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hi Bikash. In my opinion you need to compare the guitar makers more than the two guitar making styles flamenco/classical guitars. Between a normal classical guitar and a great flamenco guitar I will prefer the flamenco guitar even if it is to play classical musical on it. Another example. if you tell me to choose between one Smallman classical guitar and one Santos Hernández flamenco guitar to play classical music, for my taste, I will choose the Santos Hernández. It is also a question of the taste and preferences of each person.
In my opinion, one has to understand the maximum this type of instrument can accommodate & it is foolhardy to pretend otherwise, most definitely using amplification & possibly the type of instrument IF one possibly loses the beauty as suggested.
Some have superb reproduction hifi systems & the recording was done with excellent acoustics & superb microphone etc, but it is never the actual sound as v though the guitarist is in the room.
At the end of the day, this is an acoustic not electric instrument.
”Oh, this food tastes great - you must have a great stove..😊 Just kidding but wanted to add to your example when ones wants to buy the guitar of the master you just heard, its not only the guitar they also practice much play very well. One thing you forgot in this video is how playable the guitar is. A louder guitar can often be very unforgiving. I prefer old school guitar sounds and I have tried Fletas, Romanillos, Friedrich, Hauser and they were all very nice and very playable. I can’t own any of them of course. What I do now instead of searching for affordable concert guitars I try different flamenco guitars from Alhambra and such. Here I can find all I want for a 1000 Euros and if I want to play loud I pluck the strings with more force 😊
So lucky you are you found all you want in a 1000$ guitar!!
@@maderaguitarras I also have a Friedrich replica that I built which gets to fill the gap that my Flamenco Alhambra can't. ^.^
And actually if a guitarist wants himself to be heard well in a 1000 people hall, no guitar can do the job acoustically, mic is the only option. With today’s technology, good sounding guitars (referring to guitar one in video) with mic will sound better compare to the louder but not so good sounding guitar (referring to guitar two). Guitarists usually have to spend months to years to know a new instrument well enough, and different types of guitars do require different playing techniques, it’s too hard for me to imagine someone record with one and performs with another, not to mention a good mic is so much cheaper than buying another guitar.
About mic I don't like them. Using mics you are listening to the mic, the engineer, the mixing, the speakers, the preamp... It completely destroys the beauty of the natural sound of the guitar and the qualities of defects that guitar has. In a concert as a lover of the instrument I want to hear the guitar. For me It is so much disappointed going to a concert and suddenly a mic is there! I like small hall concerts or halls with exceptional acoustic qualities to hear what that guitar can produce.
@@maderaguitarras I cannot agree more with you that small hall concerts are the best for classical guitar!
How about Carles Trepat, he uses mic and I don't see that his sound is artificial or without a taste. @@maderaguitarras
Good point. Carles uses a very subtle low volume for the ampilification when playing in big halls. Probably the best way to amplify a classical guitar. But in my opinion even that I don't like it. I prefer he goes to smaller halls to be able to listen to the guitar without any kind of amplification and see the original sound. But it is true that especially for guitars like a Torres original instrument to be played in big halls is understandable he opts for that choice.