Ported Head With Big Dyno Gains!!! ~ The Road To Horsepower Ep6
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2023
- Today we pull off the head on the Road to Horsepower engine. We replace it with a ported head and install some stainless valves, billet retainers, and HD lash caps. This upgrade made huge power gains. Stay tuned to find out how much!!!
Parts & Products Used In This Video
Stainless Valve Kit - bit.ly/3aQEWKw
Hot .265 Cam - bit.ly/2WoQA3V
Fire .265 Cam - bit.ly/3HwY9MH
.010 Head Gasket - bit.ly/3WzwTUI
Autolite 3910X Spark Plug - bit.ly/3qCKjCk
TM24 Flat Slide Carb - bit.ly/3ZtvRMB
TM24 Flat Slide Carb Kit - bit.ly/31TsUWm
VM22 Clone Carb - bit.ly/3X6cdVc
VM22 Clone Carb Kit - bit.ly/37KXRzZ
VM22 Genuine Carb - bit.ly/3J4D1kL
VM22 Genuine Carb Kit - bit.ly/3iHd1AP
Stock Carb Performance Kit - bit.ly/3kZ96wr
18Lbs Valve Springs - bit.ly/2QPD34e
26Lbs Valve Springs - bit.ly/2z84MXp
36Lbs Valve Springs - bit.ly/40W5yzt
40Lbs Dual Valve Springs - bit.ly/3RJtZff
Throttle Top Plate - bit.ly/3buiBOs
Billet Flywheel - bit.ly/2vDOft1
Slipstream Flywheel - bit.ly/3C4kFM9
Stage 2 Kit - bit.ly/3HdeCGE
Air Filter & Jet - bit.ly/3kZ96wr
Header - bit.ly/3Wx2bf4
Build Your Own Header Kit - bit.ly/2NDPdM9
3 Disc Racing Clutch - bit.ly/2HXseYN
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Mega Moto Mini Bike Kit - bit.ly/3aPEfM6
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Развлечения
This is as good as Engine Masters on TV. We can actually see performance results. Great videos Red Beard!
Bigger valves are going to raise the peak horsepower even higher, pretty much anything that increases flow through the engine does. So you're definitely going to want stiffer springs and rev higher to take advantage of that. The fact the pull stops before peak means we don't even really know how much more power porting actually made. Milling the head for higher compression should raise the entire curve as far as I know, and I'm curious to see if that plays out in the real world.
When you can gain top end HP without losing any on the low end it is a big win! You certainly accomplished that here.
And that's just a simple cleanup on the ports try to raise the roofs of the ports might have to make a custom intake manifold but should show gains being most of the air flows along the top of the runners
Please test the ceramic coating on the piston and head and the ceramic lubricant coating on the cam and piston skirts id like to see if the cera coat makes a difference on the dyno
I love that. “Let ‘er go til she winds out or blows then take it to the next step after that. 😂
If he let it go until it blows...the next step would be dumping it into the scrap metal bin.
Probably the only way to get the HP curve right off the bat ,then you can get an idea of the point it falls flat.
No sense revving to 8000 if it peaks at 5500 for example.
Yes Sir, great to hear your going to be doing the comparison on the heads.This had been a great series thus far and really looking forward to more. THANKS for the info. RBG AND THE ROAD TO HP!!!!
Good shit my guy. This is my favorite go-kart series on youtube. Keep up the good work. Tinkers like me will be watching these videos for years.
To port such tiny ports, a Dremel with cable adapter is probably best, I have ported several scooter heads, with smaller valves, as in 16mm exhaust valves, and 18mm intakes, for the tiny engines, it would be awesome if someone made a cnc controlled arm that can be manually controlled like a etch a sketch, use it to hold the Dremel, and go in slowly, one layer at a time, then slightly smooth it by hand, the ripples would probably help power and flow on the intake side, I like mirror polishing the exhaust, and chambers, also the piston dome,
That engine needs larger valves, when you see such gains with so little, it shows how restricted it is, I would love to design a billet or even a cast head for these engines, or even my scooter engines,
Ever since I was a kid, being my hopped up 5hp Briggs flat head, I wanted to modify the engine converting and adapting a motorcycle head onto the engine, convert to overhead cam, it could be done multiple ways, machining the side cover, to allow a plate to fit between, with the chain guides on it. And bolt holes for a cover to fit on, from the head to block, use o-ring type seals between. Possibly use a motorcycle hemi piston for a compression ratio above 7:1, I believe a 8.5:1 maybe even 10:1 could be possible, probably required electric starter, also pressurized oiling would be basically required, to oil the cam, it was beyond my capabilities then and now, but I know what I wanted to do, if I had access to the equipment I could possibly get it done, I believe id make the side cover a cover and crank seal only, machine and dowel in a thick plate to hold the bearing, that can slide on to the crank, then be bolted in precisely, with a machined fit, and dowels. The oil pump can be fitted where the cam was, the timing gear can fit on the crank, likely a whole new side cover would be made, or the original modified and a model made so a new cover could be cast, it may loose about .250" of crank output length, but I doubt that much if any, using a head from about 400cc to possibly a 650 cc Suzuki, like a old Dr 350-650cc, the ports would support 10K rpm, so I think I'd want a very strong rod, and it would likely require a custom length, and pin size, and modify the piston to remove weight, could possibly allow the crank to be heavily lightened, freeing more power, by allowing the counter weight to be 90% more aerodynamic, it would likely be a 8500-9500 rpm engine, and designing the chain tensioner and guides so the cam can be advanced and retarded on the fly, by changing the side the slack is on, can make the low rpm TQ much better, and keep top rpm HP! Use a tiny governor, a valve and a tiny hydraulic cylinder, to slide the tensioner assembly, advancing or retarding the cam timing, retard: hi rpm HP, advanced: TQ! The oil pressure can be used to slide the assembly, a modified timing chain tensioner from a modern car could probably handle this, the governor and valving, to control this, is the more complex part,. Use a spring rate to set a curve, to prevent it from being full retarded or full advance, to allow a gradual shift from one to another, and the curve can be set by the tension on the spring, and a restriction in the oil from the valve, as well as the weights on the governor, or it could be done electronically, with a electric valve! Id definitely want to use a tiny motor cycle cdi ignition, and charging system, use a electric fan, I would not feel safe spinning even a billet flywheel 10k rpm, even for a second, if it broke a chain, I can totally see a modified, heavily modified engine like this making 30-40 HP, maybe 50-60, because I'd have to add boost, if I did all that work, boost must happen! I even thought about using a second engine as a supercharger, close the exhaust, bore out the spark plug hole for a 1" pipe, spin it 2x or 4x engine speed, how everit worked out , to get the first engine to use a carb, then compress the air fuel mix, into the main running engine, using a 10-12 HP engine to force air and fuel into a 5hp engine, about like putting a carb on a air compressor, and connect it to the engine, it would probably make a bit of power cold, but hot it would probably make about 4 HP total, loosing power, because of the heat and load, it would been awesome if I could gotten a tiny 30-35mm turbo!! 😆
Sorry I ramble!!
That’s impressive!! Awesome video and I’m loving the series
Love it, I wonder how just porting and the carb swap would do
I was wondering the same thing but if you look at the overlap on the dyno results from ported to non-ported, down in the RPM range that would be maxed out, there isn't much difference, unless I'm reading it wrong
Love this series your doin! Keep up the awesome work!
Great info , really enjoy this series
When you get to 20+ hp, can you please have a wildcat head with your predator hemi ratio rockers with dual springs? It supposed to be the more superior head out of all them. It would be nice to see anyway,,
Good stuff! I’m eager to hear more about that Duromax 274 too.
Fantastic info and series.
See that's exactly what I was talking about when you lapped the valves what good is a big valve if the seats the same size? Cut those babies back alot then port the backcut on them. It's the biggest restriction in that port by a mile and for the displacement still a tiny valve so dont worry about it being too much my 155cc compound bike runs 34mm intake valve and the seat is hoged out. Makes a much bigger difference than what you saw here actually.
We haven't used up all the NAPA oil you said was good before.
there are different level types of synthetic oils , level 3 and level 4. Who woulda thunk
"Rev it until she don't rev any more". I love this guy.
Can't wait to see big bore singles I'm planning a 440 or 459 stage 1 for a kart I'm building
I want to get a tube bender so I can make my own mini bike frame. My last one was really fun but super not safe.
Hey Red Beard I love the road to horsepower series I was thinking maybe you can find out how much horsepower the 6sigma nitrous kit adds to a motor when you spray the engine
I had a 18 lb valve spring break right after I installed it on a factory engine. Sent the rod through the head.
Loving the series
A "Real Success" ,you( Mr. Red Beard) are certainly on the Path to making 40HP with those little Predator ENGINES.Thank you Sir for the Excelent vidio and happy safe "Revving up the Horse-Power".Best wishes with all your endeavours. God Bless you & your Family.
Dont the blocks get wonky after 20hp or so?
@@DarkLinkAD reinforced 224 block would be able to hold more than this, welded block should be able to hold a LOT more. And with a 224 crank, the extra 12cc would help too.
Love the series.. Maybe I missed it, what type of fuel is being used for the tests ??
Interesting. Would've like to see what the port looked like before porting.
I wonder what effect bigger intake valve have. Definitely need to rev it higher though.
Good Stuff Bud! Can not wait to see what the Predator 224 builds do.
There's quite a bit of work that still needs done to those ports.
I REALLY REALLY want to know what ratio rockers, head porting, and stock carb rejetting will do for a governed motor with stock flywheel.
My build is made to be close to road legal motorcycle as I can get on a tillotson 212.
So I'm hoping that I can JUST do head work to increase torque at every rpm range, but not increase the rpm to the point that I blow my flywheel, or overrun the governor.
My setup currently is the all stock (except the exhaust) tillotson 212E with a 2 stator coil and rectifier, I'm hoping to make my own rectifier winding for a higher power output, but keep the electric start flywheel with the stator magnets. No head work done, and with a Comet Tav2 30 series installed, at top end on the Tav2 it seems that my motor almost bogs or loses some output due to the gearing change.
So I'm hoping adjustable main jet, ratio rockers, a head port for flow, as well as a velocity stack and filter relocation will allow me to keep my engines natural rpm limiter, but have the power to fully spin the tav2 up to the engines max RPM and not bog down.
The tav2 is a stock 10T 420 chain model driving a 38T rear sprocket.
You shouldn't worry. You'll never blow up the flywheel with a stock TAV and that gearing. It's going to bog with that gearing whether you do head work or not, especially against a tall tire.
This is great Info!
Curious why the numbers are so skewed at the beginning of that pull? This has been a fun series.
Brilliant videos i really enjoyed watching from 🏴
Awesome, thank you!
You are definitely the best brother 😁🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾
Great job!
LETS GOOOOOOO! im hoping for a full HP increase!
I would like to see non hemi comparison and maybe do some bottom end stuff so you can see how far it will make power
Dude u help me soooooo much. Thank you 🤘😎🤘 You do awesome work Explain things very well
Wonder how a stepped header vs. different diameter exhaust would change
Back in the day when we raced go karts the Header size could give or take away HP. Both in length and diameter. Like what was called a dog bone, it would give some motors more overall power. These OHV motors should be the same. Try other headers not just the one.
Still missing the links for the 1 to 2 ratio rockers, and push rods
Very nice work. I would like to see if you put a stock exhaust in this already modified engine, how much it will reduce the horsepower in comparison to the free exhaust.
Is this a good setup for a clay oval kart or do you recomend a different cam etc? Thanks in advance and thanks for all the awesome videos
Love it brother!
Greg how restrictive is the exhaust? i know you dont have much on there but it looks like 1" pipe.... could it benifit from moving to 1.125" ? Congrats on that pull numbers! thats a 13% HP increase!
How much horsepower would a timing advance add
As a noob to porting engine heads, a how to video would be great @ red beard’s garage
Be conservative if anything, because just hogging it all out can kill flow.
Round off sharp corners and make sure any steps at the manifolds are blended in, and match the gasket to the port.
Sometimes gaskets are kinda low quality, I've had to cut away some gaskets before from infringing in the port.
As you said, should have started with just porting the head way back on the stock motor, it jetted to 13aft on stock carb, and it should have been the base line across the board up to this point. Also, it not going to change piston and rod) to this point (needed, since now your pushing up into the 7K+ range, checking the motor to have the squish set to around .030 should have been done on the stock motor. To wrap up, need to go back to scratch, to see what you can make on a stock motor with out adding parts/just clean up) with it rev'g stock with limiter and stock flywheel, to see what max number you can make with a higher revs, but much shorter life due to the higher revs.
I've been seeing you a long time on RUclips video 1st Time on RUclips a while welcome back
would be nice to see these steps carried out with the stock 196 engine that comes with many of the larger mini-bikes
The steps are the same tho
Results would be the same.
When are we going to see the results of the 212 mud skipper build?
Really love your videos , i hope you do some more road to horse power videos very soon
My brother are you OK haven’t seen you in a while. I’m waiting to see what’s going on with your 212 Dyno build. I have the same build with a non-hemi head RTC 6 head. I’m definitely gonna poured it now
Rev it till she won't rev anymore. Can't wait!
Nice gains
Another great video!!
How come you aren’t doing the mph like in the first videos
Another great video!!! Love this series. Quick question, I have a 208cc engine that has a bore and stroke of 70x54mm. Can I use the same parts from a 212?
Use clone parts. Your engine is just a big bore clone (Nice!). Use nothing Predator 212 related except a common 70mm flat top piston. If you order valves get the proper size valves. Otherwise order parts like you have a 196 (clone).
You talked about building a non hemi head or mentioned it once.
Besides different pushrods etc, does a clone head just bolt to a hemi block?
I have an extra head and I do need a winter project haha.
You do great work.
That is impressive.
Did you use 5.26 rods? Jw. Gonna do 1.2 Billets Rockers, Chromoly Rods & Stainless Valve Kit for my next upgrade.
put the 65lb valve springs in
Interesting the cleaned up heads showed so little below 5K!
It comes down to cfm demand, the unported head could support the demand at 100% efficiency up until that 5000rpm point, then it started to drop its ability to keep up, the ported head could maintain that higher efficiency as the demand increased with rpm.
You should throw that 200cc diesel engine on it and check power gains with and without turbo. Also try messing with the injector shims to see what gains from adjusting injection timing.
Wondering if keeping a stock 212 predator, what gains would I have if any by just porting head? Keeping governoraswell
What is the air/fuel ratio supposed to be on a predator 212 anyway and how many of us that build these small engines have a air/fuel ratio gauge on the mini bike or go kart that you have this small engine on r
awesome video
Red Beard brother, I'm so impressed. I really like your videos. I've been watching your videos and you have come a long way with your content and your expertise. Great job brother. I want to build one. I have a new 16hp duromax and a friend said he would give me a v twin 24 hp. I think it would be great on a small airplane
@redbeard Your AFR, i dont know how accurate it is but, it appears you could have leaned it out 1-2 sizes and made even more torque at lower RPM. Great Job with the R/D. I love these types of videos!
Next you should test a diesel engine like the popular one off of Amazon I’ve always wanted to see what the stock torque of iy
What dremel bits were used to port the head and purchased from TIA
I love this series you should do a video comparing pump gas, 110 , and methanol
So what you're saying is: Before we spend allot of money on our engines,we need to have our heads examined first? 😁
that's funny , like the way you think!
Can you test if adding 0.25 percent acetone to the fuel wil have any effect?
Noob question, do gaskets need to be lubricated or sealed or anything, specifically crank case today
What if I port and polish a head for a "stock" engine with no alterations to the governor, flywheel, or cam?
Does more flow on a stock motor make more power with the stock carb and maybe a nice mini bike exhaust?
I ask because I'd like to know but not do a governor delete, I just want the extra flow and power but to keep the rpm limiter, and my charging coil flywheel.
Do you have long term plans with the dino....?
Would the non-hemi have better low end torque?
if you have a high lift cam you need 1:2 rockers? if you use standard rockers what will happen?
I’m needing axle, sprocket and bearings for Ken Bar Streaker cart. Can you share a supplier?
It would be interesting to see how having too lean/too rich an A/F ratio would affect HP and torque.
Why the pipes coming from the engine case to head cover? Where can i get info about that
I don't think you need more valve spring pressure it wasn't floating the valves at 7500 I'll bet the spring in it will turn close to 9000 before valve float if you do it's just going to be the rod making a nice inspection window
Do you have a lead on someone that make a billet flywheel for an electric start predator 212?
POWER 💥
If I got everythingthing from episode 1 to this episode would it be a beast? Also how would I know if it would all fit in my mini bike since they are all different sizes and shapes
so the one thing that seems a bit off is the air fuel ratio, usually on chevy small blocks and stuff 12.6 to 13.2 is optimal, yet i saw 11s so cause they're aircooled do they just need that much extra fue?l
Is there an electric start kit that can be used on a modded engine?
Good stuff but I still choose the 301cc 14.9 ft-lbs. torque stock before any upgrades.
Can I do all these same upgrades on a non hemi engine ?
You should’ve done a hemi and non-hemi at the same time so we could see the difference or you need to
Please post a link if some of us would like to purchase a Dyno like you are using.
I see your using the AR3910X spark plug - that's cool. What type of HP gain was there over a conventional spark you would use? I can tell the differences in the 2 plugs - can you say how much that might be?
Spark is spark ,it doesn't care what kind of plug it's jumping from.
If you found power from a plug change , something was wrong.
@@MrTheHillfolk I think Greg could show you on the dyno ----- if you understand flame propagation, you'll understand where the increase in hp comes from. What does flame propagation mean? Flame propagation is the spread of a flame in a combustible environment outward from the point at which the combustion started.
@@TheShepard5348 sure I get all that ,but overall it's not going to make much of a difference on these small engines, but trying some indexing might be worth the time more than worrying about the other things affecting power.
I'm all for looking for that last tenth of a hp, but looking for a magic spark plug to do it with is sort of futile.
@@MrTheHillfolk Let me say -- if they don't work, why do they keep selling them. Why does Greg use them if they don't add to the power of a single cylinder engine?
@@TheShepard5348 I don't even watch that channel, what the heck is he using, an E3 ?
If so I've never seen more issues with any other plug,even a torch
I got an actual Honda GX160 for free that doesn’t run. Would the head on that be an upgrade to a 212 predator Hemi?
Yes and no. It will raise the compression but the valves are smaller and will restrict it on the top end. But then again you could get a cam that is high lift short duration to compensate for that. But if its just a otherwise stock hemi for what a head gasket cost you could just swap it out and try it to see if you like it or not
When you get your inmill do not buy a static phase converter in my 40 years of being a master electrician in my experience the rotary phase converters is the only type that will work.
Hey what happened to gravy bones kart frame are you still going to sell them kits
I wonder if you could dyno with a torque converter just to see how it changes the graft uhhh I'm a neerrrrdddd
Yeah kinda like a "at the wheels" hp dyno
Moe Powa Baby!
Hey I’m new to the channel I have no experience with the 212 predator Hemi I’m scared to take it apart to remove the governor if I ship it to you with all the kit could you help me with upgrading