I would say that even Buck was traumatised by this point... the books explain how tired he was of fighting and that he just wanted to retire with Veronica...
After the death of the Rookie and the incarceration of Mickey he tried to drink himself to death between halo 3 and 4. If that doesn’t say unresolved trauma idk what does
@Installation00 Halo has definitely always had a problem with dialogue, where some of it is masterfully done and other parts of it are absolutely cringe. "To war" in Halo 3 is still one of the worst pieces of Halo dialogue ever written in my opinion.
The thing is…. I think that line works only after you've read the expanded material. Its kinda sad because I'm someone who wants more Osiris material. I think it Osiris starred in a set of spin off games…that line would have been meant more.
The explanation still makes it feel like we got robbed of a real story in 5. We have all these characters dealing with trauma, and we never see them fight or bond over these traumas. You’d think most of Osiris holds a grudge against the arbiter, except for vale. We could have a disjointed team learning to work together and to overcome the traumas of loss and war.
@@JustinAzure-v7h I'm not so sure. I feel like the old halos worked because chief was just a suit of armour inhabited by the player. Only injecting personality during exposition or in situations where the reaction is going to be the same for everyone. 343 said they wanted to make chief more than that and expand on him, but I think that was their blunder. Once you define something like chief by exploring him directly, you limit him. He must now react in specific ways which may conflict with the way a good story needs to go. Everyone around the chief should be explored which is the entire purpose of cortana. Cortana was the wit and voice of bungee describing the story, she can be explored, but chief himself is kept as minimal as possible. And results speak for themselves. RPGs make players fill a role. Halo is not an RPG, it's a shooter. And almost all the best shooter characters, the most beloved, are kept loosely defined. Doomguy, soap McTavish from COD4, master chief, Gordon Freeman from half-life, chell from portal. I don't think halo needs character development, it needs story development. And a bunch of that was destroyed when 343 took the wheel. For example, bungee set up an amazing plotline where humans ARE forerunners and there's evidence for this littered over halos 1-3, and this leaves tons of unanswered questions and plot threads. But instead 343, made forerunners a separate species. Which is the most uninteresting version of the plot with the fewest possible directions and makes me think the story was written by someone who skim read the halo story and not someone who knew the story in perfect detail, knowing all the implications and understanding what bungee were going for. I mean the first thing 343 did was reveal the forerunners, one of the top 3 mysterious forces in the galaxy with their mystery being possibly the most interesting thing about them. It was a payoff that wasn't set up correctly and definitely wasn't earned.
Objectively we did get robbed of a potentially amazing story, Locke hunting Chief, mystery behind CHief's actions, and these characters could have been done better, but what we got wasn't terrible, it was decent, some flaws but enough on the story to still be enjoyable.
@arcticghost1393 I'm gonna be honest here, Bungie themselves had already kinda fucked up in their attempts at making Chief a Doomguy-style character. Throughout CE and 2 he's got a bit of personality, but then 3's where it really comes into the spotlight and you get to see who he is as a person. His willingness to let go of grudges (albeit hesitantly) to work with past enemies if it means a hope for humanity (Arby and Spark), Miranda's death leaving him stunned for like a good twenty seconds, his softness with Cortana upon rescuing her from the bowels of high charity, and him wanting to try and get the fatally wounded Johnson back home before Johnson gave him the order to finish the job and "send him out with a bang" before dying which, once more, left Chief stunned for a moment. 3 set the record of Chief being a surprisingly emotionally-driven person beneath the usually stoic, sometimes sarcastic exterior established in CE and 2, 4 just naturally expanded on what it's predecessor did like any sequel should. I feel like where 4 failed and Infinite succeeded though is that the former kinda forgot a bit about that "exterior" and focused entirely on the emotions, whereas the latter knew where to use the stoic hero who occasionally pops a amusingly monotone quip (bro did Tremonius dirty) and when to push the curtains aside and let the more emotional and human side of him show, like when he was comforting the pilot. It's something I feel is really fitting for Chief and his role as "The hero of humanity winning an unwinnable war", a stoic badass who inspires fear in the hearts of his enemies and courage in those of his allies when on the battlefield, yet when the time calls for it he knows when to show his empathy to help lift the downtrodden back onto their feat. Kinda reminds me of what Peter Cullen's brother, who served in Vietnam IIRC, said when he was going to go audition for the voice of Optimus Prime for the G1 cartoon. "If you're gonna be a hero, be a real hero. Don't be a Hollywood hero-type with all the bs and all the yelling and screaming and the trying to be tough. Be strong enough to be gentle." That's what Chief has become, and it works perfectly for him. However, I do kinda agree with you. While I don't think character development should be outright shafted or anything, I _do_ believe the grander story at large should be the primary focus and that character development should be _complementary_ to such. Such moments being at odds with what's going on around them is an issue 4 suffered from and Infinite too, though I'd say a bit less so given they were a bit less frequent as well as the fundamental difference between "Trio of survivors vs space pirates" and "Voldemort is about to turn the entire human population into killer robots".
Which is funny because in ODST we see the team dealing with issues and snapping at each other, they don't handle situations in the best way sometimes but that was great writing. It was refreshing to see human emotions and the 'regular human being' moments instead of being a green walking doom machine. These ODSTs were people with history and relationships and we got to SEE it play out in real time... which was absolutely highlighted by majority of the games having starred the Master Chief previously. MC only speaks a handful of times, letting the player create their own head canon (literally in this case) as to what MC is thinking. But for the human soldiers? They aren't brainwashed into being fearless killing machines with the cybernetics and genetic modifications to back it all up. It reminds me of the colossal shift in the Borderlands games. When the player characters started to quip and comment about the world (or whatever asinine task you're asked to do) it made that universe feel so much more alive. Until we get to Halo 5... I mean Borderlands 3... We could have gotten little tiny moments that at least reference Osiris team's backstory. Maybe have Vale get frustrated and swears in Sanghelli as a throw away voice line, which confuses another member and makes them ask what she just said? Or they find a techno-macguffin device that needs repaired, which would allow them to connect to the Covenant battle-net. Vale could then use her skills to socially engineer the Covenant over the radio? (Making Vale and Tanaka team up, giving these characters something to DO with their skills.)
I understand that Osiris is a Spartan team, but the newer generations of Spartans are still nowhere near the OG Spartan-II's. Osiris team's members all have legitimate reasons to distrust ONI and they still feel human enough because, in my personal opinion, these are fully fleshed adults. They weren't kidnapped and tested on, they're willing participants of the Spartan program. They would have a much easier time being human, being more functional emotionally. Wouldn't it be cool to see the rag-tag Osiris team (All things considered, these characters have been through a lot.) come together through fighting? Have them all start to learn trust amongst each other as they fight, sure the higher-ups suck in the military but your battle buddy? You lean on your battle buddy, learn from them and do your damnedest to keep them around. They're doing the same for you after all. I could see an ascendant Osiris team where the team comes together and cross trains with all of their varied abilities. That would be a cool storyline if they infiltrated ONI to make sure that they're still the good guys. Think about an Osiris team that all could speak multiple languages, keep their own computer networks secure enough to obscure everything they do... and they have enough crazy on their side to win just about any fight. Buck could lead that group, I'm sure he's used to dealing with mental trauma in his teammates. The perfect person to lead Spartans is unironically the ODST of the group.
I always thought the Halo 5 campaign would have been ok if it was just a generic sci fi shooter. It actually played ok and looked ok. It was just NOTHING like a Halo game to me.
I love when people say this about unpopular series entries, because the fundamental aspect of the story wouldn’t make sense without its franchise’s characters “Green man finds out blue woman from (no prior entry) is alive and wants to awaken guardians, just cuz. Also other super soldier team helps aliens on desert planet just cuz.” Makes more sense.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 Tbf, that was basically Halo CE on release. Even without the context of the Human-Cov War and the lore that developed after, we all still love CE because the gameplay, level-design, art-direction, and moment-to-moment storytelling were great.
I think a key problem with Halo 5 was that the supplementary media was more mandatory reading to understand the story, where it had simply been extra information before. And lot of it comes across as excuses and damage control. You can give the characters all the elaborate lore you like, if they are bland and unlikeable in game, or their actions do not make sense in the narrative of the game itself, people are not going to like them.
hell, even halo 4 gave you all you needed in the game itself! even if the info was a little convoluted. we knew lasky and del rio were the leading officers of the Infinity. Palmer, the Spartan-IVs and "The Covenant's" unusual aggressiveness despite a truce indicated things had changed a lot since Chief went to sleep. The Didact and Librarian futher expanded on and gave a face to the mysterious Forerunners. even the prometheans were decently explained as ancient forerunners/humans converted into war machines to fight the flood. in halo 5, we don't get much insight or setup on WHY arby and Jul are fighting each other. we don't get much explanation on the Warden or how and why the Created happened. we don't get a good look at Cortana's reign or plans beyond "use the guardians to take control". we don't know how or why the covenant and prometheans are now enemies despite recently being allies. jul mdama is removed too suddenly and anticlimactically. argent moon doesn't seem to play much significance, just a generic mission with a confusing setup for the next story beat.
@@KristopherPrimenaaaaaah, Halo 4 was a clusterfuck of lore. If you go from Halo 3 to Halo 4, the librarian, didact, Prometheans, weird covenant faction...343 is just TERRIBLE at setting up and explaining anything.
@@ChiefCrewin as i said, everything's a little convoluted in 4, but it's still there. at least what's relevant to the story of 4. "a lot can happen in four years" showed that there was still at least SOME covenant aggression, if not the whole covenant going to war with humanity again. the actual political division (arbiter vs jul) wasn't necessary until halo 5. i am going by the games ALONE. the terminals helped explain whatever else was confusing in halo 4.
Regarding Vale, they *easily* could've just had a little moment on Sanghelios with her conversing with an allied Elite in their native language maybe about how the civil war is going. When the translator system in Locke's armor starts having trouble with lesser known parts of the language, he (the player) could choose to walk up and ask her what they're talking about, and Vale mentions that the Elite wants to settle down and become some sort of smithy or craftsman when the war is over. Locke asks her how she knows the Elite's language, and that's when she spiels about learning it during that 6 month trip.
Nice little gems of story telling like this are what makes ges special. You get a lot of this in the Mass Effect series and it fleshes out the universe much more. Shame 343i didn't see it that way.
@@airplanemaster1 oh nice edit sir. Nothing’s ever good enough for you, is it? I’m certain players would have loved more characters standing around rambling exposition.
No one but Veronica would do it. Buck was hesitant, and the rest would take it as well as any other UNSC member. You dont fuck with the 117, especially after everything that happened since 3.
@@Mr.Unfaireven after two decades of unanimous praise, it somehow is STILL underrated as heck.... And imo this will only change when we get a new series. Bring back all the actors possible, just have them get stuck in a time bubble to handwave age changes. Frankly i don't even care if they explain it, i just want the series!😊
@@ThommyofThennat this point honestly I think they just need a new crew, maybe do a prequel series set in the heyday of the ship class before/during the war, too many crewmembers died in Serenity to get a proper sequel show that lasts over a season long... And likely a shorter season to boot. I suppose it would be doable if the old crew found a new firefly class ship and had to abandon serenity to join a new cast on a different ship but then died or was sidelined to allow the new cast to shine, but that would likely be worst of both worlds. Honestly they really need the world made into an MMO as that would best use of the entire OG cast in a practical usage case.
For me, the reason it didn't work is because it moved away from the main thing that makes Halo so great in my eyes. The idea of exploring the unknown of the galaxy and universe and incorporating a conflict in it between all sides. Halo 5 for a good portion is just a game about one Spartan hunting another one.
I think it should say a lot about Halo 5 and the characters in it when I say that as someone who’s read almost every piece of expanded media, I had no idea what Locke’s backstory was until I watched this video.
I think Halo 5’s problems were all related to poor organisation and planning, regardless of the lore behind it. Osiris didn’t work because no one asked or wanted a game based around a cast of characters we’d never heard of before, and had no prior connection to the story or characters with the exception of Buck. Arbiter at least somewhat worked because the circumstances behind him becoming the Arbiter are a direct result of our action as the Master Chief in Halo CE. Plus a POV for the Covenant was needed to convey to the player how humanity could prevail against the much stronger enemy they didn’t have a chance at beating. And likewise the cast of Halo ODST worked because we’d already introduced to ODSTs in Halo 2, and by the time their spin-off game came out the main trilogy focusing on Master Chief was done. Unlike the Arbiter Osiris had no real narrative purpose to justify their inclusion in the story. They’re just there because someone wanted them to be there. And what’s worse they shoved Chief out of the way in his own story just to allow that to happen, rather then finish his story first, then do a spin-off giving us another perspective on that story. It’s like there was a whole game planned between Hali 4 and Halo 5 Guardians following Chief 343 just axed because they couldn’t be bothered, then wondered why the game sold so poorly.
Let me guess? 29 Palms? As an AAV Crewmen we did night patrols and I remember one time there was no moon so our NVGs (everyone calls NODs now) were only working off the starlight.
It always blows my mind that Master Chief is the leader of Blue Team despite not being a CO or being the ranking member. He is so great that higher ranked Spartans defer to him
@@Aex3f4not when a *commissioned* officer is on that same team. Honestly the decision to make Fred an officer was one of my wtf moments with the writing
@@Matt_of_the_mountains I never knew that Fred was an officer. Then again I don't know much outside of the games. I find it weird how Chief has a Navy rank while other Spartans like Noble 6 are Lieutenant.
It's more down to preference. CHief and Blue Team worked together for years, but with the Fall Of Reach and all the shit going on on Earth, Chief's only time with them post Reach would have been between Halo 1 and 2 as Chief was elsewhere that whole time from Halo 2 to the end of Halo 4, that's quite some time be without Chief, so Fred basically stepped up, leading Blue Team or other Spartans assighned to Blue Team when CHief couldn't. So he got promoted and CHief returned to the group after Halo 4, only made sense to Fred to let Chief take the lead again, the team worked at their best that way.
It was a disaster, they should have sticked with the Didact as a Main threat, with Cortana and the Guardians being the "good but bad" solution to stop him. It could have culminated on Zeta Halo with the Appearance of Mendicant Bias.
This video only proves my point that there should have been three games leading up to Halo. 5. One is specifically around Spartan Locke one is specifically around Osiris team and the other is specifically around blue team. That way when Halo 5 came we would have known these characters and they could have build on our relationship
that's the problem with 5. we were thrust into the middle of a brand-spankin' new story with almost every new character. even blue team were kinda "new". and those we DID know were underdeveloped (chief and buck) or kept to the sidelines with barely anything to do (lasky and palmer).
@@KristopherPrimeto be fair, 4 and infinite were just as bad with explaining anything. 343 had a problem with setting up their lore. Bungie seemed to have a rule about keeping things simple and slowly expanding on it.
Even if there is a lore reason for the lack of Blue Team and why Fireteam Osiris was unlikable or didn't have a chance to show off their personalities then Halo 5 still had bad writing. They had complete control of the story and they chose to create one that was deeply unsatisgying and no ammount of justification or expanded lore explaining why it was bad will ever make it any less bad.
im genuinely hoping buck returns and works along side master chief at some point. it would be brilliant for split screen/ coop. its one of the only things that would potentially interest me in the next game.
I'll be honest I was a fan of osiris when the game first came out. It hasn't changed but does give me a new prospective on the team . Locke was only my favorite due to how he was in the trailers and his motives
Honestly it had problems but I mostly remember enjoying the H5 Campaign. I liked the Post-Conflict Cold War vibe, and the Banter between Blue Team and Fireteam Osiris was very good, felt organic. I also really liked ending the last desperate Covenant Remnant on Sanghelios. I even like Warden Eternal. His design is a bit messy but his voice work was excellent. I used to hate the Created, i don’t really anymore. But they were underdeveloped, but they are much more than just a “destroy everything Skynet” as some claimed. In Halo 5, the Reclamation should have been split into 3 Factions. Cortanas Created, ONI after discovering what Cortana is doing, then Halsey trying to fulfill the Reclamation as the Librarian wanted, and get revenge on ONI for trying to endgame her. This would make the story seen in the H5 Marketing make sense. Chief goes AWOL because he discovers Cortana is alive and ONI is using Forerunner Technology to endgame her and the Swords of Sanghelios, so ONI brands him as a traitor. Fireteam Osiris is deployed to bring him in, Chief tries to convince Agent Locke that ONI is trying to force Humanity into their sole control and betray the Elites but they don’t believe him. Cortana awakens her Guardians and has a battle against ONIs Forerunner Ships, game ends showing Genesis lighting up under Halseys control. There, I made H5 good without any major retcons.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 mhm. Good ideas, but not a great landing. I think I'm missing stories about what happened in Halo Infinite before it started. I haven't played it. I know about the infinity getting destroyed, some spoiler stuff about late game, but not anything else. I want to play it as it feels like a halo game again. Time is an issue for me. But since Halo 5, I felt like I need to go get external books to understand the games since there is almost nothing of value in the games to put it together. I know it's different in Halo Infinite, like the lore is there and are told. But I can't brush that stigma of, "you need to buy the books to understand the story." You know.
@@sluggerbutter my first halo game was Halo Wars then Halo 3. I think people were way too negative about the Show before even episode 1 fucking aired, and I thought episode 1 and episode 5 were fun because they had actual good action. Then the Master Cheeks s3x scene happened and all devil’s advocacy was rescinded.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 oh, trial and error, learn from what works and what didn't. That is all I can say in that regard since I have no idea how you write and the story you tell. So have faith and try to see if it works. If it doesn't, then see why it didn't work
Halo 5's campaign was the first to truly disappoint. Not only that but the whole marketing campaign leading up to it was very misleading and down right annoying. The story was very thin and somewhat incoherent, though it did set up some interesting plot threads that could have been better expanded in future games, but ultimately went nowhere with Infinite. I think that is perhaps the most disappointing thing of all, 343s apparent lack of long term planning regarding their storylines over multiple games. That being said, i was still playing Halo 5s multiplayer for years after its release. It was just so enjoyable. After the disappointment that was Infinite, i gave up and went back to playing Guardians multiplayer as it was just more fun.
I think it probably would've been better narratively if Fireteam Osiris was Alpha Nine, not only because of how interesting it would be to see these characters become Spartans, but also because they mesh well as characters because only one of them is an introvert, that being the Rookie
I absolutely agree with the explanation, but a game devs job is to portray characters and events in ways that are fun and engaging. 343 did a good job with that in infinite, but NOT in 5. Unfortunately, infinite isn't very infinite.
This game made me question my love for one of my favorite series. If it wasn't for Wars 2, I would have questioned ever being a Halo fan again because Halo 5 was that bad to me.
I never hated Halo 5. Sure Osiris weren't the best characters, but they were ok, Buck was fun as always, Locke was already a mostly serious dude so I didn't need him to be energetic, Vale worked fine on Sanghelios, it was Tanaka that truely was the plank of wood as she had the least interesting bits. There's also making Cortana the villain, but I rationalized it as being her rampant parts, or at least not fully her. It's not until Halo Infinite and seeing Chief near death and the threat of Atriox using the Halo that she finally realized her mistake, and seeing The Weapon she saw a chance to make that right, sacrificing herself to cripple the ring and stopping The Weapon's deletion. Intending The Weapon to be the Cortana she should have been, a partner to Chief. Infinite's ending is what saved Cortana in Halo 5 for me, because in the end, evil Cortana was only a small part of her overall story. Halo 5 has some other story problems, but I still think it's a decent enough story, you can follow it through, there's enough logic to it, and Cortana's "death" in Halo 4 still holds up as she technically did die, or at least the Cortana we knew for the series died, and a darker version of her survived, but made some kind of ammends for her actions, and The Weapon, will continue where Cortana should have been.
Any human character in the time period of H5 is going to have trauma,but here's what they could have done.when Buck has the chat with Locke about how the UNSC will view them, use that to start Locke talking about how it's one more dirty mission for ONI. Maybe Tanaka had initial hope for rescue on Minab by UNSC/Spartans and how that fell short and her enlistment despite having mixed feelings about the UNSC. On Sanghelios, have Vale lament how noble Sangheili virtues were turned astray, maybe have her try to talk down one of Jul's soldiers. I really think there were some really simple ways to add some depth while sticking within the existing plot beats
Wish the other members of blue team could have had some unique game play elements. Speed and more powerful charge attacks for kaley, mgs style CQC QTE as melee counters for fred, garantee or higher chances for ricochet to kill off multiple targets as linda, etc
I honestly enjoyed the campaign of *Halo 5: Guardians* a lot more than some other side campaign stories like ODST. ODST was absolutely not my strong suit... Plus, Fireteam Osiris were the best of the Spartan-IVs and their augmentations and advanced armor technology were very helpful during their own pursuit on Blue Team. In my opinion, I loved Fireteam Osiris just as much as Blue Team. ❤️👍🏻
@@alexrc2306 I'm more of a Spartan fan. Spartans always were the true icon of the Halo franchise. Then again, the only thing I liked about ODST was the game's soundtrack.
Did they really suck or was they poorly written, I say the latter,FT Osiris should have been grouped better instead of creating another blue team, they should have created Osiris as a true to form “hit squad “ still lead by Locke but including other requisition specialists as lethal as Locke, this way their story could have been wrote better. Buck should’ve never been added,he should’ve been part of a second ODST game with buck ending up becoming an S4 . FT Osiris is the great team that never was, they again should’ve been an ONI asset tasked with a mission that would have them come across blue team during a few of their missions, had that angle of Osiris being a true ONI “kill team” would have worked better.
That's a great idea. Could have even been the last days before the rings fired to show how he got there. Make his story mirror chief fighting the flood but with the goal of lighting the rings.
I know we are operating on hindsight with how Halo 5 turned out and the books published about the ODSTs of Alpha9, but man how cool would it have been if the fireteam Osiris was entirely comprised of the Alpha9 ODSTs that became Spartans. Getting to see their dynamic in a totally new setting post Covenant War, seeing them react differently to becoming Spartans and getting the subtle hints toward all the history that occurred between Halo 3: ODST and Halo 5. Especially the elephant in the room of the tragedy of the Rookie and where is Mickey. They could even include Ketola and have a fun married soldiers dynamic rarely seen in media. In the end that story still got told and maybe it’s best that it didn’t get caught in the game development whirlwind. But ya would have been immediately more engaging for players.
Been a long time now (I think more than a year) since I tried to re-arrange H5's campaign as a game-design / writing exercise, but the thing I remember the most from it was the introduction of Osiris: I completely changed it in favour of presenting Locke as a proper Hunter, having him and his squad hunt and down a rebel Spartan that got mad at the UNSC as they (unintentionally) killed his loved ones during an anti-insurgent operation. That part of Locke I felt totally left apart in the proper game and that to me was a shame.
@@darkspark5854 Exactly. Objectively, another Protagonist must be prepared, as the voice actor for Chief is simply very old. Tragedy can and will eventually happen. H5 just did a subpar job. I nominate Jerome of Red Team, with Isabelle as his AI.
Oddly enough, Halo 5 could retroactively be made good, in a way. Limitedly, of course. In the same way that Halo: The Flood expanded the lore surrounding Halo CE, a Halo 5 novelization in which readers could get to know Fireteam Osiris on a more personal level, even hearing their thoughts through the text, could make Halo 5's story much better, and could add character moments that we never got to see in the game. Just like how Master Chief canonically found a dead human who almost survived the Library, there could be a moment with Vale on Sanghelios using her talent for language in a useful way, which would help the readers get to know the character better.
I’ve been thinking about Halo 5s story a lot lately and specifically how it would fix some of the problems if you just follow Blue Team the entire time. Not only would it give Blue Team the attention they deserve but it would also make us more invested in the events unfolding since the main plot 5 is Cortana’s rise to power. An event that would have a profound effect on The Master Chief and by extension us, since Chief’s relationship with Cortana is ours as well. You wouldn’t need to change much, here’s a basic outline. Game starts with Blue Team as the first mission instead of the second, then after Chief receives the vision from Cortana they go AWOL and head to Meridian just like the original, except this time we follow they’re perspective. They could do all the stuff with Sloan or something different but they will end up in the Guardian Sanctuary to fight Warden, who wouldn’t reveal his connection to Cortana just that he is there to awaken the Guardian. Blue Team ultimately fails to stop the Guardian but sees Warden board it giving them the idea to follow him later on. They escape Meridian, seeing the destruction as they leave, and decide they need an expert in Forerunner’s and who better than their surrogate mother, Dr Halsey. Through some method they learn Halsey is on Kamchatka. They go there, rescue her and eliminate Jul Mdama. After their reunion they tell Halsey about the Guardian and she’ll reveal she already knows, she also believes Cortana is behind it. Chief wouldn’t accept it but they push the theory aside to plan on how to stop the Guardians. Which would lead to the Guardian on Sanghelios, this would allow for the Chief and Arbiter reunion we all want in game. These missions would play almost exactly like Osiris' version all the way until Blue team reaches The Guardian and goes to Genesis. The final act would be structured differently for obvious reasons, and I’m not sure how that would all play out. Warden would be revealed to be the one controlling the Prometheans to attack Chief against Cortana’s wishes. As Blue Team progresses it becomes apparent that Cortana is indeed behind everything and Chief has to come to terms with that, and in this version there’s more time to actually explore that. Everything I’ve laid out is just a way to restructure what we already have in Halo 5, with exception to the final act, to put Blue Team in the spotlight and Chief’s internal conflict over Cortana at the forefront rather than the background. We’d get to see Blue Team interact more which for fans of the books would elevate this game immensely. At the end of the day Halo 5 is what it is, a mixed bag of ideas with poor execution and missed opportunities.
I liked Vale too, mainly because she made an appearance in one of the halo books before Halo 5. I forgot which book but she was bad ass in it And she wasn’t even a spartan yet.
In regard to Fireteam Osiris, there was very little that we knew about excluding Buck. Tanaka got her origin explained with Halo: Escalation during her arc. Vale was interesting to me because on how she was an expert in speaking Sangheili, especially reading Hunters in the Dark. But I didn't know her dad was almost a Spartan-II, and oddly enough I named a Spartan-II with Sierra-095 by that Spartan tag. Would have been interested to see her speaking to an Elite in their native tongue and anything that would have gotten her more interesting as a character. Locke baffles me due to the fact, who could've no doubt been a Spartan-III had he said yes. He wants revenges for what happened on Jericho VII because of the Covenant, and yet blames the UEG for letting it happen? Then, there's his personality which would only fit a Spartan in that manner. He could have easily been part of Beta Company with the other war orphans who wanted revenge on the Covenant, an exception like Carter who was 10 or 11 at the Alpha Company was beginning training. This man could have been Spartan Jameson-B153, but no I'm gonna blame the UEG for not fighting the Covenant harder and do my own thing. Overall, I really enjoyed this video. Nicely done, man.
Halo 5 shouldn't have been a main line game in my opinion. It should have been just about Fireteam Osiris aiding the Arbiter in the Sangheili Civil War. Those missions are the best part of the game for me, if the whole game would have focused on that, then it would have been great! Everything that has to do with Master Chief and Cortana doesn't work for me in this game.
This doesn't rly make the story any better in my eyes. There was always this bad thing about Halo 5 that it's over reliant on third party sources, like books. This only made it more apperent. The books should explore more concepts on what happens in the games and not put in the groundwork necessary to ubderstand basic charakteristics of the cast. It's still a bad justification for what the Halo 5 story was. The writers still had control over the plot, they could've easily written the story that it would suit the characters, but they still didn't.
even halo 4, as confusing as it might have been, gave us all the necessary answers! lasky and del rio were just semi-generic officers, but we appreciated them for their roles in the story (del rio was an asshole prioritizing the safety of his crew while lasky was our homie who had our back the entire game). palmer and the spartan-ivs were a good way to either bring in more spartans beyond just the chief OR to a good way to show that we (chief) were a relic of the past. we didn't get much characterization of the covenant in 4 beyond spartan ops, but that was fine at the time since the later games could have done that just as the bungie games did. sadly, the covenant's characterization came in their literal final moments. we learned all we needed about the forerunner side of the story, especially when you jump into the halo 4 terminals. and the story between chief and cortana was beautifully executed and written.
That's actually super neat with vale learning languages at the University of Sydney. Usyd is well known for being the best uni in Australia for languages (especially classics)
Halo 5 had the pieces to be good. I am of the mind that they should have taken their time with Cortana being a villain. A 3 game trilogy with Didact being an anti-hero against humanity and eventually becoming his old non-psycho self would have been better with the megalomania of Cortana being explored better. HtT could have also been weaved into the first and second game as well ir at least the story points being wrapped up.
A problem with Halo 4-5 is that it’s TOO. FUCKING. SHINY. Like Jesus did we have to make every single character and Spartan the shiniest things in existance? It’s awful to look at.
One of the biggest problems that I have with 5 is at the end we have Cortana basically inciting open rebellion by “Smart AI” and then it the next game it’s completely swept aside.
I feel like the characters under 343’s rule, lost something The only characters that were interesting was Chief, Cortana, Lasky, Didact and Fernando Esparza Everyone else, the Spartans in Halo 4 were boring, spoke nasty towards the Chief. Stacker didn’t feel the same in Halo 4 from previous games In Halo CE, the secondary characters were awesome, from the first game! Keyes, Johnson, Dubbo, Stacker, Foe Hammer and Spark Bungie also did have a legend working the sound department, Marty O
simple halo lost its soul, to soulless corporations & their execs. games are no longer made solely to be fun, they are now made to make money & only money. entertainment is no longer entertaining.
I like the people in Osiris, but there is really no reason why they are a team. Yes, they’re very specialized and highly skilled, but nothing screams: these are the guys we call for high priority missions or even classified ops like finding Blue Team. Locke’s history as a hitman should have been front and center. He’s the guy ONI calls when they want someone found or killed; Master Chief went rogue, the first thing we do is send Locke. His struggle with ONI orders and the desire to be more than an assassin should have been the emotional core of his story of becoming a hero. The rest of Osiris don’t really match that kind of intensity. They’re just kinda there with him. There’s no indication (to my knowledge) that Locke specifically requested Tanaka, Buck, or Vale to put Osiris together due to their skill set. I’m pretty sure ONI or whoever just made them a team right before the mission on Kamchatka. Halo 5 also had like no cutscenes between most of the missions, that would have helped Osiris out plenty. Vale touching down on Sanghelios should have been the opening scene for that first mission. A scene with Tanaka on Meridian talking with or helping out colonists. Buck and Locke swapping stories (their conversations in Bad Blood give a reason why Buck would be a teammate instead of a leader).
I've never personally had any issues with the characters in fire team Osiris. My issue with five was the overall narrative direction and choice for the story in general. This point of view just adds to that because these are interesting characters and they made a story that literally doesn't show off their personalities in much of a meaningful way.
IMO the main reason fire team Osiris didn't work is simply they felt less like a team that's battle hardened and has been working together for many missions like blue team and more like strangers shoehorned in to just be blue teams rival. And its less that its lore and theory reasons. As Fire Team Red with Jerome would have been a better replacement of fire team osiris just to prove what I'm saying. Its less that fire team osiris was a bad writing or even made for the player not to like as much as they are simply bland and flavorless placemarkers. The simple reality is Fireteam osiris's largest issue is simply they don't need or have a reason to simply exist.
They exist to fullfill a playing mechanic not developmental or lore reason. Which is quite honestly the greatest sin a story based mode in a video game could have possible.
The game was great in my opinion gameplay wise and visually too, my only complaints tho were not spending more time around the elite home world to see cities like in the concept art, and the fact the Didact was scrapped as the main villain and Cortana put in his place. If 343 stuck to their guns and just maintained the story all the problems fans had with the Didact could have been fixed and Halo Epitaph fragments incorporated into the story. I think they could even keep Cortana as a rival to the Didact attempting to claim the mantle and because human AI can damage the domain the Didact would get desperate enough to perhaps employ chief in an alliance to stop her. Thus starting his redemption arc that would continue to halo infinite since it does in the books. He still remains a villain but with the endless he could understand the danger and agree to help humanity on the ring and his story becomes entwined with chief. If I had a Time Machine I would love to make this into a reality lol, I would have loved to have had the Didact again in the story, he was my favourite antagonist in all of the games
The funny thing is, your explanation of halo 4 to 5 allows it to make sooooooooo much more sense. It does work, but then halo 5 to infinite is the definite disaster more so.
Being someone who likes Team Osiris for what they are and were in Halo 5, I think the point I agree with the most is the lack of certain coexistence between them, I don't want to go into too many details, but I sincerely believe that this far from being exclusive, is something that happens with both Alpha 9 and to a greater extent with Team Noble, and that is that the teams are limited in context and characterization, that is why I have never really shared the criticism that "they come from nowhere and don't tell us their story" because that is not really done with the rest of the teams, however, other techniques are used to make them stand out and I sincerely believe that doing something like that in Halo 5 would not have been bad, even so, I am not lying when I say that the Halo 5 campaign entertains me.
Because a year before the release, the game had to be heavily redesigned due to the then leader of the Xbox. There was only enough time for three levels of the Chief.
@@bsaintnyc Because the game would not have been released for two more years, but it was needed as soon as possible. Therefore, it had to be cut and simplified. So they wanted to save the console when the TV didn't work.
One of the issues i dont see talked about a lot is the short story Saint's Testimony which came out right before Guardians. With Iona trying to get the UNSC to not kill her as she's reaching her 7 year lifespan and its mentioned that with all the good Cortana did that the UNSC was starting to take matters of AI specifically rights much more seriously. Thing is too Frank o Connor wrote this story and months later the story seems to be rather moot with the events of Guardians.
Alpha 9 should have been the team of choice to bring back blue team. We know of alpha 9 via books and the odst game. They typically do jobs for Oni and sending a team of spartans to track down another team sounds like something Dare would do.
Biggest question of the month. Why didn’t they have any form of k9 attack dog units let alone, subject them to the grueling super soldier, augmentations used in Spartan II augmentations, Spartan’s Best Friend?
I enjoyed Halo 5, I wish I play Halo Infinite with my Multiplayer spartan. But with such a huge universe having such iconic characters, alot of stories will go untold in the video game space.
They should have either let Cortana die or have Chief recover her amidst a campaign dealing with the revenants of the covenant and propelling things back towards the Halo for subsequent games (introducing the Endless/precursors). It could get into the background of the Spartans, Halsey, and the AI.
I've always thought Osiris should have been a 5 Spartan team. Buck or Thorne should have been Fireteam leader, with Locke as an ONI attache. Locke would have frequently broken off from the main party in pursuit of clandestine objectives that the rest of the party was not privy to. It would have allowed for Locke to be a more interesting, mysterious character while also allowing a more charismatic, established character to fill the role as team leader. It would have also created an interesting tension within Osiris on top of their pursuit of Blue Team. Then again, I also think that Cortana returning as a villain should have been scrapped in favor of allowing the Didact to continue his plans and be fleshed out as a character to those who didn't read the Forerunner Saga.
The idea of the game was good in concept, and even had the whole "the UNSC is attempting to replace the Master Chief" that started on Halo 4, but Osiris didn't had no buildup whatsoever, and the whole promotional campaign was misleading at best. None of the characters, aside from Buck, had any background, and weren't likeable. And they jammed so much " lore" on ingame dialogue to attempt to flesh the characters that, even people who read the books and saw Halo Nightfall didn't ring much with Spartan Locke, Tanaka and Vale. I mean, the whole ONI agent is a cool concept, and they could have Osiris work in the shadows, doing "questionable" objectives in greyed moral areas. Instead, they basically did what the Chief could have done (and Blue team for that matter) but alas, Blue team was so underused that it is painfull to play through. They essencially feel that they were there so that the squad mechanics could have been implemented.
Halo 5 and the criminal lack of Blue team were all because the execs and writers at 343 are idiots that assumed people didn’t think of the Master Chief as the protagonist of main line Halo games. They had no understanding of the IP or the audience they inherited by keeping this IP when Bungie left, and they have since fumbled this whole franchise so badly that it could only be credited to absolute ineptitude or malicious sabotage and I firmly believe the execs at 343 should be audited for this.
Didn't have to be that way, even with the antisocial backgrounds. Buck tried to break Locke out of his shell in a few scenes. Could easily have written more of that dynamic where Locke slowly warmed up more to Buck, and the other two learned to be actual humans. Vale's fluency should have been played up more when fighting with/against the elites. Could you imagine the banter of Vale hurdling slurs at the Storm elites and the rest of the team continuously asking, "what did that one mean?" The final punchline near the end could have been saying a slur so bad, she couldn't translate it. Just spitballing.
Rookie and Noble Six show you absolutely can pivot away from playing as John. Bringing Cortana back for me is the single biggest thing holding it back. Jul Mdama was absolutely wasted as an antagonist and he and the didact could have carried a trilogy easily if they'd just committed to it.
I liked that Halo 5 introduced Blue Team. But I hated all but Spartan Buck in Osiris. They should have had Alpha Nine minus the Rookie or Dare in the game so Dutch, Romeo, Mickey, and Buck (all spartanized of course) going after Blue Team.
There was a rumor I read that halo 5's story was going to be John going awol from the UNSC with his own ship on the search for Mendicant Bias who wished to atone for siding with the flood. John was going across the galaxy tracing the breadcrumbs bias sent him to find his location. Once found Bias would upload himself to Cortana's old chip , replacing Cortana.
Let’s be real, Buck was only there to appeal to fans. Otherwise if Halo 5 had been successful, 343 would 1000% replaced Chief with Locke, and probably assassinated the Chief’s character in the process like they did with Halsey and Cortana.
That sounds like a fantastic situation for a book series that gives us ample time to explore the characters and gives time for the characters to learn how to work together. That's a terrible situation for an action focused game that uses primarily situational dialogue and short cutscenes to explore its characters.
For all the problems Halo 5 had, I actually loved the squad mechanics. With a bit of fine tuning, it would have been on par with Republic Commando! If not better! My favorite halo games are CE through to reach (pretty much all of the Bungie Halo games) I also really enjoy both of the Halo Wars games. But Halo 4 is where they lose me. (Partly because I find the Prometheans really annoying to fight, specifically the Watchers. I’d rather fight the Flood, and have nightmares from fighting the Flood, instead of ever fighting the Prometheans again. Lol)
From this I take: This campaign could have been very interesting, if these characters would have been regular humans. Turning them into discount spartans helped in no way to bring out their special character traits, while breaking core spartan lore that people need to be in adolecence for the body to help grow into the physical changes. 343i watered down the impact of spartans with the spartan 4 concept, when they should have given us a campaign where some of the best humans try to bond inspite of there past and hunt a spartan legend. And do it in the game for heavens sake!!!
Even with the same story, I would have liked if they let you use your spartan ops spartan, Thorne, buck, and one other spartan. Even Locke as long as there were others that I actually cared about.
I think a huge reason we didn't like fire team Osiris was because, as a player and an observer with outside knowledge we are rooting for the master chief for the game, our interests align with his, but we are made to play as spartan locke for most of the game who is written to oppose chief. So basically what we want as a player is the exact opposite of what we're being told is the motivation of the character we're playing as for most of the game. We are actively rooting against what we're doing. I think the game would have been significantly better if instead of playing as locke we played as a nameless faceless member of team Osiris who is under lockes command, one who is shown through action to disagree with Locke and potentially even disobey Locke and help chief. Imagine if instead of Osiris team standing their doing literally nothing for no reason, while we watch what is basically out character (Locke) fight chief instead out nameless character interferes and helps chief escape.
I love Blue Team and it's almost funny that John-117 is the most "ordinary" member of the team. Put aside John's utterly insane luck, Kelly and Linda are super specialists in their specific fields. Meanwhile Fred is probably more talented as a Spartan II than John. Fred's speciality is wielding knives, yet he's actually the second best sniper amongst the Spartan II's and overall pretty skilled at everything. For me, having John leading this ridiculously talented team emphasizes John's leadership qualities and sheer willpower.
Whats weird though is like look at Nobel Team. Only in one game, not a ton of lore about them minus George i guess, all portrayed as incredibly competent, but they were received WAY better than Osiris. It seriously has to just be how the characters were written because the math adds up to them being as well received as Nobel but they just weren't.
I think it also needs to be put into perspective that humanity as a whole was facing extinction at the hands of the Covenant. I doubt you could have found any human occupied world by 2552 that had either been attacked by the Covenant or became the new home for those whose world’s were glassed. So that said Fireteam Osiris is a good look at how psychologically humanity was affected as a whole by the Covenant.
I think it's important to point out that their backstory isn't portrayed in gameplay to their characters in Halo 5, they might be introverted in lore but they work just fine like any other team, no detriment to their cohesion as a unit. They functionally work together despite them all coming from backgrounds where they shouldn't work together. Especially Buck and Locke, they're more Lone Wolf types, that are forced to work together for no other reason than having to group up for the game. Locke ideally could have handled going after chief and blue team by himself because it fits his MO, but not Tanaka or Vale or Buck, they're too soft to be effective headhunters.
We didn't bond with either team because the writing/stories for them was terrible. Chief was a traumatized, lone wolf, 1 liner character. Yes he was a blank slate so that players themselves could put their personalities onto him but during his moments of dialogue and character actions he was written well and for lack of a better term was a badass that fans loved. I appreciate your breaking down of the story and explaining why it didn't work.
I mean Osiri's entire motivation is just "because he told me too". I don't want to resurrect Johnson. However, I think if Johnson was in charge of fireteam Osiris I think it would have been more compelling.
I always theorized the “queen of the universe” Cortana was just an incomplete fragment. To say it was the real one is character assassination akin to Disney’s Luke Skywalker hermit.
The issue is you shouldn't need multiple books, shows, previous games etc. To fill in the back story of characters to a level we feel a connection. Take halo ce. We had a connection with john and he had very limited dialogue. 343 should have applied the rule - Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
It's a shame we lost Noble Team, I wouldn't have minded seeing them chasing after Blue Team. The Chief and Carter would probably try to out-professional each other.
i will never forgive the halo community for the way they treated halo 5. while it definitely had its problems most were no more egregious than ones found in earlier halo games. the multiplayer was so much fun and I'll miss all those cool variations of weapons and vehicles
Yea, halo 5 had some pros. Warzone was so much fun. Fighting the covenant with people all over the world and also going against them. The story was disappointing to me, only because I expected more out of it. Hunt the Truth hyped it up to b something special, then the game came out and I was like, this the story. Basically everything was straight except the story to me
@@elijajackson9651 the problems with 5: the entire sandbox was locked in warzone behind rng gambling mechanics where the only nway to get more reliably was to spend irl money (a gaming sin) copied directly from titan fall's movement system. down to the hovering mechanic. had a huge controversy about the misleading marketing & only had the mc (main character, in this case chief) in only 3 missions which is absolutely unacceptable with how terrible the other party (Osiris) performed. don't get me wrong, 5 is fun. but that fun is overshadowed by the attempted offing & replacement of classic characters, lying to the costumer via marketing , inserting gambling & doing a narrative 180 from 4's ending. these sins cannot be overlooked.
Lore reasons don't excuse poor presentations. There are ways 343 could have gotten all of the lore in this video across and still made us the players care about Fireteam Osiris. Their lore is fascinating, and fall right in line with Halo lore. Its the execution of that established canon that is poorly done
I very much thing the ideas were definitely there to make this a great game. The execution was just... I don't meed to explain the execution at all. Had fun with the multiplayer though, which surprised me.
It should have been locke chasing john alone. No teams. And it should have been locke always ariving late until the final mission where he saves john after understanding his motives.
I would say that even Buck was traumatised by this point... the books explain how tired he was of fighting and that he just wanted to retire with Veronica...
After the death of the Rookie and the incarceration of Mickey he tried to drink himself to death between halo 3 and 4. If that doesn’t say unresolved trauma idk what does
@@jacobwhelan45that wasn't in the story of 5 though
@@cosmictreason2242 no neither was any of their backstories
The game that killed HALO
@@PACKYCSONE80 That death started much earlier that this game
My breaking point was Tanaka’s infamous speech lol I was like “WHAT DO YOU MEAN WEVE COME A LONG WAY? NONE OF YOU HAVE CHANGED OR GROWN”
There's a few bits of clunky dialogue that made me cringe. The You ask You Buy line is quite possibly the worst for me.
@@LateNightHalo “wE’vE CoMe a lOnG wAy toGeThEr.. lOng wAy yEt tO gO” 😭😭
@Installation00 Halo has definitely always had a problem with dialogue, where some of it is masterfully done and other parts of it are absolutely cringe. "To war" in Halo 3 is still one of the worst pieces of Halo dialogue ever written in my opinion.
most boring cast ever, they should of hired nylund to write the lines at least
The thing is…. I think that line works only after you've read the expanded material. Its kinda sad because I'm someone who wants more Osiris material. I think it Osiris starred in a set of spin off games…that line would have been meant more.
The explanation still makes it feel like we got robbed of a real story in 5. We have all these characters dealing with trauma, and we never see them fight or bond over these traumas. You’d think most of Osiris holds a grudge against the arbiter, except for vale. We could have a disjointed team learning to work together and to overcome the traumas of loss and war.
@@JustinAzure-v7h I'm not so sure.
I feel like the old halos worked because chief was just a suit of armour inhabited by the player. Only injecting personality during exposition or in situations where the reaction is going to be the same for everyone.
343 said they wanted to make chief more than that and expand on him, but I think that was their blunder.
Once you define something like chief by exploring him directly, you limit him.
He must now react in specific ways which may conflict with the way a good story needs to go.
Everyone around the chief should be explored which is the entire purpose of cortana.
Cortana was the wit and voice of bungee describing the story, she can be explored, but chief himself is kept as minimal as possible.
And results speak for themselves.
RPGs make players fill a role.
Halo is not an RPG, it's a shooter.
And almost all the best shooter characters, the most beloved, are kept loosely defined.
Doomguy, soap McTavish from COD4, master chief, Gordon Freeman from half-life, chell from portal.
I don't think halo needs character development, it needs story development.
And a bunch of that was destroyed when 343 took the wheel.
For example, bungee set up an amazing plotline where humans ARE forerunners and there's evidence for this littered over halos 1-3, and this leaves tons of unanswered questions and plot threads.
But instead 343, made forerunners a separate species.
Which is the most uninteresting version of the plot with the fewest possible directions and makes me think the story was written by someone who skim read the halo story and not someone who knew the story in perfect detail, knowing all the implications and understanding what bungee were going for.
I mean the first thing 343 did was reveal the forerunners, one of the top 3 mysterious forces in the galaxy with their mystery being possibly the most interesting thing about them.
It was a payoff that wasn't set up correctly and definitely wasn't earned.
Objectively we did get robbed of a potentially amazing story, Locke hunting Chief, mystery behind CHief's actions, and these characters could have been done better, but what we got wasn't terrible, it was decent, some flaws but enough on the story to still be enjoyable.
@arcticghost1393 I'm gonna be honest here, Bungie themselves had already kinda fucked up in their attempts at making Chief a Doomguy-style character. Throughout CE and 2 he's got a bit of personality, but then 3's where it really comes into the spotlight and you get to see who he is as a person.
His willingness to let go of grudges (albeit hesitantly) to work with past enemies if it means a hope for humanity (Arby and Spark), Miranda's death leaving him stunned for like a good twenty seconds, his softness with Cortana upon rescuing her from the bowels of high charity, and him wanting to try and get the fatally wounded Johnson back home before Johnson gave him the order to finish the job and "send him out with a bang" before dying which, once more, left Chief stunned for a moment.
3 set the record of Chief being a surprisingly emotionally-driven person beneath the usually stoic, sometimes sarcastic exterior established in CE and 2, 4 just naturally expanded on what it's predecessor did like any sequel should.
I feel like where 4 failed and Infinite succeeded though is that the former kinda forgot a bit about that "exterior" and focused entirely on the emotions, whereas the latter knew where to use the stoic hero who occasionally pops a amusingly monotone quip (bro did Tremonius dirty) and when to push the curtains aside and let the more emotional and human side of him show, like when he was comforting the pilot.
It's something I feel is really fitting for Chief and his role as "The hero of humanity winning an unwinnable war", a stoic badass who inspires fear in the hearts of his enemies and courage in those of his allies when on the battlefield, yet when the time calls for it he knows when to show his empathy to help lift the downtrodden back onto their feat.
Kinda reminds me of what Peter Cullen's brother, who served in Vietnam IIRC, said when he was going to go audition for the voice of Optimus Prime for the G1 cartoon. "If you're gonna be a hero, be a real hero. Don't be a Hollywood hero-type with all the bs and all the yelling and screaming and the trying to be tough. Be strong enough to be gentle." That's what Chief has become, and it works perfectly for him.
However, I do kinda agree with you. While I don't think character development should be outright shafted or anything, I _do_ believe the grander story at large should be the primary focus and that character development should be _complementary_ to such. Such moments being at odds with what's going on around them is an issue 4 suffered from and Infinite too, though I'd say a bit less so given they were a bit less frequent as well as the fundamental difference between "Trio of survivors vs space pirates" and "Voldemort is about to turn the entire human population into killer robots".
Which is funny because in ODST we see the team dealing with issues and snapping at each other, they don't handle situations in the best way sometimes but that was great writing. It was refreshing to see human emotions and the 'regular human being' moments instead of being a green walking doom machine. These ODSTs were people with history and relationships and we got to SEE it play out in real time... which was absolutely highlighted by majority of the games having starred the Master Chief previously. MC only speaks a handful of times, letting the player create their own head canon (literally in this case) as to what MC is thinking. But for the human soldiers? They aren't brainwashed into being fearless killing machines with the cybernetics and genetic modifications to back it all up.
It reminds me of the colossal shift in the Borderlands games. When the player characters started to quip and comment about the world (or whatever asinine task you're asked to do) it made that universe feel so much more alive. Until we get to Halo 5... I mean Borderlands 3...
We could have gotten little tiny moments that at least reference Osiris team's backstory. Maybe have Vale get frustrated and swears in Sanghelli as a throw away voice line, which confuses another member and makes them ask what she just said? Or they find a techno-macguffin device that needs repaired, which would allow them to connect to the Covenant battle-net. Vale could then use her skills to socially engineer the Covenant over the radio? (Making Vale and Tanaka team up, giving these characters something to DO with their skills.)
I understand that Osiris is a Spartan team, but the newer generations of Spartans are still nowhere near the OG Spartan-II's. Osiris team's members all have legitimate reasons to distrust ONI and they still feel human enough because, in my personal opinion, these are fully fleshed adults. They weren't kidnapped and tested on, they're willing participants of the Spartan program. They would have a much easier time being human, being more functional emotionally.
Wouldn't it be cool to see the rag-tag Osiris team (All things considered, these characters have been through a lot.) come together through fighting? Have them all start to learn trust amongst each other as they fight, sure the higher-ups suck in the military but your battle buddy? You lean on your battle buddy, learn from them and do your damnedest to keep them around. They're doing the same for you after all. I could see an ascendant Osiris team where the team comes together and cross trains with all of their varied abilities. That would be a cool storyline if they infiltrated ONI to make sure that they're still the good guys.
Think about an Osiris team that all could speak multiple languages, keep their own computer networks secure enough to obscure everything they do... and they have enough crazy on their side to win just about any fight. Buck could lead that group, I'm sure he's used to dealing with mental trauma in his teammates. The perfect person to lead Spartans is unironically the ODST of the group.
I always thought the Halo 5 campaign would have been ok if it was just a generic sci fi shooter. It actually played ok and looked ok. It was just NOTHING like a Halo game to me.
I love when people say this about unpopular series entries, because the fundamental aspect of the story wouldn’t make sense without its franchise’s characters
“Green man finds out blue woman from (no prior entry) is alive and wants to awaken guardians, just cuz. Also other super soldier team helps aliens on desert planet just cuz.”
Makes more sense.
it’s a worse version of titanfall
@@jakespacepiratee3740 or the point went completely over your head
@@jakespacepiratee3740 Tbf, that was basically Halo CE on release. Even without the context of the Human-Cov War and the lore that developed after, we all still love CE because the gameplay, level-design, art-direction, and moment-to-moment storytelling were great.
@@sluggerbutterNot to say Titanfall is bad, of course.
God I remember how much I loved "Hunt the truth" before Halo 5s release. What a colossal let down the game was.
I listened to it after playing the game. It made the game that much worse seeing just how good it could have been
I think a key problem with Halo 5 was that the supplementary media was more mandatory reading to understand the story, where it had simply been extra information before.
And lot of it comes across as excuses and damage control. You can give the characters all the elaborate lore you like, if they are bland and unlikeable in game, or their actions do not make sense in the narrative of the game itself, people are not going to like them.
hell, even halo 4 gave you all you needed in the game itself! even if the info was a little convoluted. we knew lasky and del rio were the leading officers of the Infinity. Palmer, the Spartan-IVs and "The Covenant's" unusual aggressiveness despite a truce indicated things had changed a lot since Chief went to sleep. The Didact and Librarian futher expanded on and gave a face to the mysterious Forerunners. even the prometheans were decently explained as ancient forerunners/humans converted into war machines to fight the flood.
in halo 5, we don't get much insight or setup on WHY arby and Jul are fighting each other. we don't get much explanation on the Warden or how and why the Created happened. we don't get a good look at Cortana's reign or plans beyond "use the guardians to take control". we don't know how or why the covenant and prometheans are now enemies despite recently being allies. jul mdama is removed too suddenly and anticlimactically. argent moon doesn't seem to play much significance, just a generic mission with a confusing setup for the next story beat.
@@KristopherPrimenaaaaaah, Halo 4 was a clusterfuck of lore. If you go from Halo 3 to Halo 4, the librarian, didact, Prometheans, weird covenant faction...343 is just TERRIBLE at setting up and explaining anything.
@@ChiefCrewin as i said, everything's a little convoluted in 4, but it's still there. at least what's relevant to the story of 4. "a lot can happen in four years" showed that there was still at least SOME covenant aggression, if not the whole covenant going to war with humanity again. the actual political division (arbiter vs jul) wasn't necessary until halo 5. i am going by the games ALONE. the terminals helped explain whatever else was confusing in halo 4.
@@ChiefCrewin halo 4 made sense
"A disappointment."
That's a very diplomatic way of describing that game.
Regarding Vale, they *easily* could've just had a little moment on Sanghelios with her conversing with an allied Elite in their native language maybe about how the civil war is going. When the translator system in Locke's armor starts having trouble with lesser known parts of the language, he (the player) could choose to walk up and ask her what they're talking about, and Vale mentions that the Elite wants to settle down and become some sort of smithy or craftsman when the war is over. Locke asks her how she knows the Elite's language, and that's when she spiels about learning it during that 6 month trip.
@@airplanemaster1 uh but we do learn how she knows Sangheli in the game..
Eh, whatever.
Nice little gems of story telling like this are what makes ges special. You get a lot of this in the Mass Effect series and it fleshes out the universe much more.
Shame 343i didn't see it that way.
@@bigsweetz7106 but we literally learned how she spoke Sangheli in the game. She does it multiple times
@@airplanemaster1 oh nice edit sir. Nothing’s ever good enough for you, is it? I’m certain players would have loved more characters standing around rambling exposition.
I think halo 5 would've been more bearable if it was Alpha 9 as Spartan 4s instead of Osiris.
No one but Veronica would do it. Buck was hesitant, and the rest would take it as well as any other UNSC member.
You dont fuck with the 117, especially after everything that happened since 3.
Buck joined the military after his time as a space pirate was abruptly cut short.
Afterwards he went back down to Earth to be a cop.
Firefly is so underated bruh
Great comment
@@Mr.Unfaireven after two decades of unanimous praise, it somehow is STILL underrated as heck....
And imo this will only change when we get a new series. Bring back all the actors possible, just have them get stuck in a time bubble to handwave age changes.
Frankly i don't even care if they explain it, i just want the series!😊
@@ThommyofThennat this point honestly I think they just need a new crew, maybe do a prequel series set in the heyday of the ship class before/during the war, too many crewmembers died in Serenity to get a proper sequel show that lasts over a season long... And likely a shorter season to boot.
I suppose it would be doable if the old crew found a new firefly class ship and had to abandon serenity to join a new cast on a different ship but then died or was sidelined to allow the new cast to shine, but that would likely be worst of both worlds.
Honestly they really need the world made into an MMO as that would best use of the entire OG cast in a practical usage case.
For me, the reason it didn't work is because it moved away from the main thing that makes Halo so great in my eyes. The idea of exploring the unknown of the galaxy and universe and incorporating a conflict in it between all sides. Halo 5 for a good portion is just a game about one Spartan hunting another one.
I think it should say a lot about Halo 5 and the characters in it when I say that as someone who’s read almost every piece of expanded media, I had no idea what Locke’s backstory was until I watched this video.
I think Halo 5’s problems were all related to poor organisation and planning, regardless of the lore behind it. Osiris didn’t work because no one asked or wanted a game based around a cast of characters we’d never heard of before, and had no prior connection to the story or characters with the exception of Buck. Arbiter at least somewhat worked because the circumstances behind him becoming the Arbiter are a direct result of our action as the Master Chief in Halo CE. Plus a POV for the Covenant was needed to convey to the player how humanity could prevail against the much stronger enemy they didn’t have a chance at beating. And likewise the cast of Halo ODST worked because we’d already introduced to ODSTs in Halo 2, and by the time their spin-off game came out the main trilogy focusing on Master Chief was done.
Unlike the Arbiter Osiris had no real narrative purpose to justify their inclusion in the story. They’re just there because someone wanted them to be there. And what’s worse they shoved Chief out of the way in his own story just to allow that to happen, rather then finish his story first, then do a spin-off giving us another perspective on that story. It’s like there was a whole game planned between Hali 4 and Halo 5 Guardians following Chief 343 just axed because they couldn’t be bothered, then wondered why the game sold so poorly.
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
So freaking true omg
When I got this assignment I was hoping there would be more gambling
Almost you winter patrolling makes nuclear a the wish Mojave for.
This comment made my laugh waaay to hard lmao
Let me guess? 29 Palms?
As an AAV Crewmen we did night patrols and I remember one time there was no moon so our NVGs (everyone calls NODs now) were only working off the starlight.
It always blows my mind that Master Chief is the leader of Blue Team despite not being a CO or being the ranking member. He is so great that higher ranked Spartans defer to him
He is an NCO Non Commissioned Officer that would lead a team
@@Aex3f4not when a *commissioned* officer is on that same team. Honestly the decision to make Fred an officer was one of my wtf moments with the writing
@@Matt_of_the_mountains I never knew that Fred was an officer. Then again I don't know much outside of the games. I find it weird how Chief has a Navy rank while other Spartans like Noble 6 are Lieutenant.
It's more down to preference. CHief and Blue Team worked together for years, but with the Fall Of Reach and all the shit going on on Earth, Chief's only time with them post Reach would have been between Halo 1 and 2 as Chief was elsewhere that whole time from Halo 2 to the end of Halo 4, that's quite some time be without Chief, so Fred basically stepped up, leading Blue Team or other Spartans assighned to Blue Team when CHief couldn't. So he got promoted and CHief returned to the group after Halo 4, only made sense to Fred to let Chief take the lead again, the team worked at their best that way.
@@Aex3f4 well lieutenant is a Navy rank as well, it's just a different position
It was a disaster, they should have sticked with the Didact as a Main threat, with Cortana and the Guardians being the "good but bad" solution to stop him. It could have culminated on Zeta Halo with the Appearance of Mendicant Bias.
This video only proves my point that there should have been three games leading up to Halo. 5. One is specifically around Spartan Locke one is specifically around Osiris team and the other is specifically around blue team. That way when Halo 5 came we would have known these characters and they could have build on our relationship
that's the problem with 5. we were thrust into the middle of a brand-spankin' new story with almost every new character. even blue team were kinda "new". and those we DID know were underdeveloped (chief and buck) or kept to the sidelines with barely anything to do (lasky and palmer).
@@KristopherPrimeto be fair, 4 and infinite were just as bad with explaining anything. 343 had a problem with setting up their lore. Bungie seemed to have a rule about keeping things simple and slowly expanding on it.
Even if there is a lore reason for the lack of Blue Team and why Fireteam Osiris was unlikable or didn't have a chance to show off their personalities then Halo 5 still had bad writing. They had complete control of the story and they chose to create one that was deeply unsatisgying and no ammount of justification or expanded lore explaining why it was bad will ever make it any less bad.
im genuinely hoping buck returns and works along side master chief at some point. it would be brilliant for split screen/ coop. its one of the only things that would potentially interest me in the next game.
The banter between cortana and buck would have been legendary
Only other spartan I would’ve believed to be hunting chief would’ve been noble 6.
Considering his job before joining Noble team was to hunt down high ranking elites in covenant space ALONE, that tracks 😂
@@ethnobotanyboy B312 actually assassinated a UNSC admiral who was going to run away with his fleet
I'll be honest I was a fan of osiris when the game first came out. It hasn't changed but does give me a new prospective on the team . Locke was only my favorite due to how he was in the trailers and his motives
the only good thing that came out of halo 5 was its fake campaign trailers
@@sluggerbutter and its magnificent cutscenes
Honestly it had problems but I mostly remember enjoying the H5 Campaign. I liked the Post-Conflict Cold War vibe, and the Banter between Blue Team and Fireteam Osiris was very good, felt organic. I also really liked ending the last desperate Covenant Remnant on Sanghelios. I even like Warden Eternal. His design is a bit messy but his voice work was excellent.
I used to hate the Created, i don’t really anymore. But they were underdeveloped, but they are much more than just a “destroy everything Skynet” as some claimed.
In Halo 5, the Reclamation should have been split into 3 Factions. Cortanas Created, ONI after discovering what Cortana is doing, then Halsey trying to fulfill the Reclamation as the Librarian wanted, and get revenge on ONI for trying to endgame her.
This would make the story seen in the H5 Marketing make sense. Chief goes AWOL because he discovers Cortana is alive and ONI is using Forerunner Technology to endgame her and the Swords of Sanghelios, so ONI brands him as a traitor. Fireteam Osiris is deployed to bring him in, Chief tries to convince Agent Locke that ONI is trying to force Humanity into their sole control and betray the Elites but they don’t believe him. Cortana awakens her Guardians and has a battle against ONIs Forerunner Ships, game ends showing Genesis lighting up under Halseys control.
There, I made H5 good without any major retcons.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 mhm.
Good ideas, but not a great landing.
I think I'm missing stories about what happened in Halo Infinite before it started. I haven't played it. I know about the infinity getting destroyed, some spoiler stuff about late game, but not anything else. I want to play it as it feels like a halo game again.
Time is an issue for me.
But since Halo 5, I felt like I need to go get external books to understand the games since there is almost nothing of value in the games to put it together. I know it's different in Halo Infinite, like the lore is there and are told. But I can't brush that stigma of, "you need to buy the books to understand the story." You know.
i’m guessing u ever grew up with the real halo games and love the show
@@sluggerbutter my first halo game was Halo Wars then Halo 3.
I think people were way too negative about the Show before even episode 1 fucking aired, and I thought episode 1 and episode 5 were fun because they had actual good action. Then the Master Cheeks s3x scene happened and all devil’s advocacy was rescinded.
@@Marisa_arts ok but how do I land better?
@@jakespacepiratee3740 oh, trial and error, learn from what works and what didn't. That is all I can say in that regard since I have no idea how you write and the story you tell. So have faith and try to see if it works. If it doesn't, then see why it didn't work
Halo 5's campaign was the first to truly disappoint. Not only that but the whole marketing campaign leading up to it was very misleading and down right annoying.
The story was very thin and somewhat incoherent, though it did set up some interesting plot threads that could have been better expanded in future games, but ultimately went nowhere with Infinite. I think that is perhaps the most disappointing thing of all, 343s apparent lack of long term planning regarding their storylines over multiple games.
That being said, i was still playing Halo 5s multiplayer for years after its release. It was just so enjoyable.
After the disappointment that was Infinite, i gave up and went back to playing Guardians multiplayer as it was just more fun.
Ive done it a couple of times but ive gone back through the sangheilios missions more times than i played through the whole thing
Same.
I think it probably would've been better narratively if Fireteam Osiris was Alpha Nine, not only because of how interesting it would be to see these characters become Spartans, but also because they mesh well as characters because only one of them is an introvert, that being the Rookie
@@Streygenmoment
That would've been great. Shame 343i decided to make Mick a traitorous innie that sold out his squad and got the rookie killed.
Halo 5 .... god i stuggled with that coffee coaster tat !
I absolutely agree with the explanation, but a game devs job is to portray characters and events in ways that are fun and engaging. 343 did a good job with that in infinite, but NOT in 5. Unfortunately, infinite isn't very infinite.
This game made me question my love for one of my favorite series. If it wasn't for Wars 2, I would have questioned ever being a Halo fan again because Halo 5 was that bad to me.
I never hated Halo 5. Sure Osiris weren't the best characters, but they were ok, Buck was fun as always, Locke was already a mostly serious dude so I didn't need him to be energetic, Vale worked fine on Sanghelios, it was Tanaka that truely was the plank of wood as she had the least interesting bits. There's also making Cortana the villain, but I rationalized it as being her rampant parts, or at least not fully her. It's not until Halo Infinite and seeing Chief near death and the threat of Atriox using the Halo that she finally realized her mistake, and seeing The Weapon she saw a chance to make that right, sacrificing herself to cripple the ring and stopping The Weapon's deletion. Intending The Weapon to be the Cortana she should have been, a partner to Chief. Infinite's ending is what saved Cortana in Halo 5 for me, because in the end, evil Cortana was only a small part of her overall story. Halo 5 has some other story problems, but I still think it's a decent enough story, you can follow it through, there's enough logic to it, and Cortana's "death" in Halo 4 still holds up as she technically did die, or at least the Cortana we knew for the series died, and a darker version of her survived, but made some kind of ammends for her actions, and The Weapon, will continue where Cortana should have been.
Any human character in the time period of H5 is going to have trauma,but here's what they could have done.when Buck has the chat with Locke about how the UNSC will view them, use that to start Locke talking about how it's one more dirty mission for ONI. Maybe Tanaka had initial hope for rescue on Minab by UNSC/Spartans and how that fell short and her enlistment despite having mixed feelings about the UNSC. On Sanghelios, have Vale lament how noble Sangheili virtues were turned astray, maybe have her try to talk down one of Jul's soldiers. I really think there were some really simple ways to add some depth while sticking within the existing plot beats
Wish the other members of blue team could have had some unique game play elements. Speed and more powerful charge attacks for kaley, mgs style CQC QTE as melee counters for fred, garantee or higher chances for ricochet to kill off multiple targets as linda, etc
I honestly enjoyed the campaign of *Halo 5: Guardians* a lot more than some other side campaign stories like ODST. ODST was absolutely not my strong suit...
Plus, Fireteam Osiris were the best of the Spartan-IVs and their augmentations and advanced armor technology were very helpful during their own pursuit on Blue Team. In my opinion, I loved Fireteam Osiris just as much as Blue Team. ❤️👍🏻
I like ODST too much for 343 fans. I like Halo 5 too much for Bungie fans. I fit into no box
@@madness0169 out of curiosity, what you didn't like from ODST? And what struck you into liking 5?
@@alexrc2306 I'm more of a Spartan fan. Spartans always were the true icon of the Halo franchise.
Then again, the only thing I liked about ODST was the game's soundtrack.
so you don’t like slow burn character driven stories u like marvel and transformers lol
@@sluggerbutter since when is that relevant to this topic?
343: "Halo is a Spartan Story. You have alien friends for 5 minutes. That's why we think no one liked Halo 5."
Did they really suck or was they poorly written, I say the latter,FT Osiris should have been grouped better instead of creating another blue team, they should have created Osiris as a true to form “hit squad “ still lead by Locke but including other requisition specialists as lethal as Locke, this way their story could have been wrote better. Buck should’ve never been added,he should’ve been part of a second ODST game with buck ending up becoming an S4 . FT Osiris is the great team that never was, they again should’ve been an ONI asset tasked with a mission that would have them come across blue team during a few of their missions, had that angle of Osiris being a true ONI “kill team” would have worked better.
Hear me out,
We should've been able to play the Didact in Halo 4 & 5
Just like we did the Arbiter in Halo 2-3, but with a Forerunner insight instead.
That's a great idea. Could have even been the last days before the rings fired to show how he got there. Make his story mirror chief fighting the flood but with the goal of lighting the rings.
the Didact should never have existed to begin with
I know we are operating on hindsight with how Halo 5 turned out and the books published about the ODSTs of Alpha9, but man how cool would it have been if the fireteam Osiris was entirely comprised of the Alpha9 ODSTs that became Spartans. Getting to see their dynamic in a totally new setting post Covenant War, seeing them react differently to becoming Spartans and getting the subtle hints toward all the history that occurred between Halo 3: ODST and Halo 5. Especially the elephant in the room of the tragedy of the Rookie and where is Mickey. They could even include Ketola and have a fun married soldiers dynamic rarely seen in media.
In the end that story still got told and maybe it’s best that it didn’t get caught in the game development whirlwind. But ya would have been immediately more engaging for players.
Been a long time now (I think more than a year) since I tried to re-arrange H5's campaign as a game-design / writing exercise, but the thing I remember the most from it was the introduction of Osiris: I completely changed it in favour of presenting Locke as a proper Hunter, having him and his squad hunt and down a rebel Spartan that got mad at the UNSC as they (unintentionally) killed his loved ones during an anti-insurgent operation. That part of Locke I felt totally left apart in the proper game and that to me was a shame.
theres no replacing the chief
Jerome?
I think ODST and Reach showed that you absolutely can replace him, 343 just cocked it up by not giving us much to sink into
There is. He won’t be around forever. Halo 5 was just clumsy with setting up his replacement
@@darkspark5854 Exactly. Objectively, another Protagonist must be prepared, as the voice actor for Chief is simply very old. Tragedy can and will eventually happen. H5 just did a subpar job. I nominate Jerome of Red Team, with Isabelle as his AI.
Oddly enough, Halo 5 could retroactively be made good, in a way. Limitedly, of course. In the same way that Halo: The Flood expanded the lore surrounding Halo CE, a Halo 5 novelization in which readers could get to know Fireteam Osiris on a more personal level, even hearing their thoughts through the text, could make Halo 5's story much better, and could add character moments that we never got to see in the game. Just like how Master Chief canonically found a dead human who almost survived the Library, there could be a moment with Vale on Sanghelios using her talent for language in a useful way, which would help the readers get to know the character better.
I’ve been thinking about Halo 5s story a lot lately and specifically how it would fix some of the problems if you just follow Blue Team the entire time. Not only would it give Blue Team the attention they deserve but it would also make us more invested in the events unfolding since the main plot 5 is Cortana’s rise to power. An event that would have a profound effect on The Master Chief and by extension us, since Chief’s relationship with Cortana is ours as well. You wouldn’t need to change much, here’s a basic outline.
Game starts with Blue Team as the first mission instead of the second, then after Chief receives the vision from Cortana they go AWOL and head to Meridian just like the original, except this time we follow they’re perspective. They could do all the stuff with Sloan or something different but they will end up in the Guardian Sanctuary to fight Warden, who wouldn’t reveal his connection to Cortana just that he is there to awaken the Guardian. Blue Team ultimately fails to stop the Guardian but sees Warden board it giving them the idea to follow him later on. They escape Meridian, seeing the destruction as they leave, and decide they need an expert in Forerunner’s and who better than their surrogate mother, Dr Halsey. Through some method they learn Halsey is on Kamchatka. They go there, rescue her and eliminate Jul Mdama. After their reunion they tell Halsey about the Guardian and she’ll reveal she already knows, she also believes Cortana is behind it. Chief wouldn’t accept it but they push the theory aside to plan on how to stop the Guardians. Which would lead to the Guardian on Sanghelios, this would allow for the Chief and Arbiter reunion we all want in game. These missions would play almost exactly like Osiris' version all the way until Blue team reaches The Guardian and goes to Genesis. The final act would be structured differently for obvious reasons, and I’m not sure how that would all play out. Warden would be revealed to be the one controlling the Prometheans to attack Chief against Cortana’s wishes. As Blue Team progresses it becomes apparent that Cortana is indeed behind everything and Chief has to come to terms with that, and in this version there’s more time to actually explore that.
Everything I’ve laid out is just a way to restructure what we already have in Halo 5, with exception to the final act, to put Blue Team in the spotlight and Chief’s internal conflict over Cortana at the forefront rather than the background. We’d get to see Blue Team interact more which for fans of the books would elevate this game immensely.
At the end of the day Halo 5 is what it is, a mixed bag of ideas with poor execution and missed opportunities.
I liked Vale too, mainly because she made an appearance in one of the halo books before Halo 5. I forgot which book but she was bad ass in it And she wasn’t even a spartan yet.
I really want Halo 5 on steam already... That game had my 2nd favorite multiplayer after CE... And I liked nothing else in Halo 5 besides that lol.
In regard to Fireteam Osiris, there was very little that we knew about excluding Buck. Tanaka got her origin explained with Halo: Escalation during her arc. Vale was interesting to me because on how she was an expert in speaking Sangheili, especially reading Hunters in the Dark. But I didn't know her dad was almost a Spartan-II, and oddly enough I named a Spartan-II with Sierra-095 by that Spartan tag. Would have been interested to see her speaking to an Elite in their native tongue and anything that would have gotten her more interesting as a character.
Locke baffles me due to the fact, who could've no doubt been a Spartan-III had he said yes. He wants revenges for what happened on Jericho VII because of the Covenant, and yet blames the UEG for letting it happen? Then, there's his personality which would only fit a Spartan in that manner. He could have easily been part of Beta Company with the other war orphans who wanted revenge on the Covenant, an exception like Carter who was 10 or 11 at the Alpha Company was beginning training. This man could have been Spartan Jameson-B153, but no I'm gonna blame the UEG for not fighting the Covenant harder and do my own thing.
Overall, I really enjoyed this video. Nicely done, man.
Halo 5 shouldn't have been a main line game in my opinion.
It should have been just about Fireteam Osiris aiding the Arbiter in the Sangheili Civil War.
Those missions are the best part of the game for me, if the whole game would have focused on that, then it would have been great!
Everything that has to do with Master Chief and Cortana doesn't work for me in this game.
That’s fair I did like those missions too probably the best ones in the game
This doesn't rly make the story any better in my eyes. There was always this bad thing about Halo 5 that it's over reliant on third party sources, like books. This only made it more apperent. The books should explore more concepts on what happens in the games and not put in the groundwork necessary to ubderstand basic charakteristics of the cast.
It's still a bad justification for what the Halo 5 story was. The writers still had control over the plot, they could've easily written the story that it would suit the characters, but they still didn't.
even halo 4, as confusing as it might have been, gave us all the necessary answers! lasky and del rio were just semi-generic officers, but we appreciated them for their roles in the story (del rio was an asshole prioritizing the safety of his crew while lasky was our homie who had our back the entire game). palmer and the spartan-ivs were a good way to either bring in more spartans beyond just the chief OR to a good way to show that we (chief) were a relic of the past. we didn't get much characterization of the covenant in 4 beyond spartan ops, but that was fine at the time since the later games could have done that just as the bungie games did. sadly, the covenant's characterization came in their literal final moments. we learned all we needed about the forerunner side of the story, especially when you jump into the halo 4 terminals. and the story between chief and cortana was beautifully executed and written.
That's actually super neat with vale learning languages at the University of Sydney. Usyd is well known for being the best uni in Australia for languages (especially classics)
Halo 5 had the pieces to be good. I am of the mind that they should have taken their time with Cortana being a villain.
A 3 game trilogy with Didact being an anti-hero against humanity and eventually becoming his old non-psycho self would have been better with the megalomania of Cortana being explored better.
HtT could have also been weaved into the first and second game as well ir at least the story points being wrapped up.
A problem with Halo 4-5 is that it’s TOO. FUCKING. SHINY. Like Jesus did we have to make every single character and Spartan the shiniest things in existance? It’s awful to look at.
One of the biggest problems that I have with 5 is at the end we have Cortana basically inciting open rebellion by “Smart AI” and then it the next game it’s completely swept aside.
I feel like the characters under 343’s rule, lost something
The only characters that were interesting was Chief, Cortana, Lasky, Didact and Fernando Esparza
Everyone else, the Spartans in Halo 4 were boring, spoke nasty towards the Chief. Stacker didn’t feel the same in Halo 4 from previous games
In Halo CE, the secondary characters were awesome, from the first game! Keyes, Johnson, Dubbo, Stacker, Foe Hammer and Spark
Bungie also did have a legend working the sound department, Marty O
simple halo lost its soul, to soulless corporations & their execs.
games are no longer made solely to be fun, they are now made to make money & only money.
entertainment is no longer entertaining.
I like the people in Osiris, but there is really no reason why they are a team. Yes, they’re very specialized and highly skilled, but nothing screams: these are the guys we call for high priority missions or even classified ops like finding Blue Team.
Locke’s history as a hitman should have been front and center. He’s the guy ONI calls when they want someone found or killed; Master Chief went rogue, the first thing we do is send Locke. His struggle with ONI orders and the desire to be more than an assassin should have been the emotional core of his story of becoming a hero. The rest of Osiris don’t really match that kind of intensity. They’re just kinda there with him. There’s no indication (to my knowledge) that Locke specifically requested Tanaka, Buck, or Vale to put Osiris together due to their skill set. I’m pretty sure ONI or whoever just made them a team right before the mission on Kamchatka.
Halo 5 also had like no cutscenes between most of the missions, that would have helped Osiris out plenty. Vale touching down on Sanghelios should have been the opening scene for that first mission. A scene with Tanaka on Meridian talking with or helping out colonists. Buck and Locke swapping stories (their conversations in Bad Blood give a reason why Buck would be a teammate instead of a leader).
I've never personally had any issues with the characters in fire team Osiris. My issue with five was the overall narrative direction and choice for the story in general. This point of view just adds to that because these are interesting characters and they made a story that literally doesn't show off their personalities in much of a meaningful way.
IMO the main reason fire team Osiris didn't work is simply they felt less like a team that's battle hardened and has been working together for many missions like blue team and more like strangers shoehorned in to just be blue teams rival. And its less that its lore and theory reasons. As Fire Team Red with Jerome would have been a better replacement of fire team osiris just to prove what I'm saying.
Its less that fire team osiris was a bad writing or even made for the player not to like as much as they are simply bland and flavorless placemarkers. The simple reality is Fireteam osiris's largest issue is simply they don't need or have a reason to simply exist.
They exist to fullfill a playing mechanic not developmental or lore reason. Which is quite honestly the greatest sin a story based mode in a video game could have possible.
The game was great in my opinion gameplay wise and visually too, my only complaints tho were not spending more time around the elite home world to see cities like in the concept art, and the fact the Didact was scrapped as the main villain and Cortana put in his place. If 343 stuck to their guns and just maintained the story all the problems fans had with the Didact could have been fixed and Halo Epitaph fragments incorporated into the story. I think they could even keep Cortana as a rival to the Didact attempting to claim the mantle and because human AI can damage the domain the Didact would get desperate enough to perhaps employ chief in an alliance to stop her. Thus starting his redemption arc that would continue to halo infinite since it does in the books. He still remains a villain but with the endless he could understand the danger and agree to help humanity on the ring and his story becomes entwined with chief. If I had a Time Machine I would love to make this into a reality lol, I would have loved to have had the Didact again in the story, he was my favourite antagonist in all of the games
The funny thing is, your explanation of halo 4 to 5 allows it to make sooooooooo much more sense. It does work, but then halo 5 to infinite is the definite disaster more so.
Being someone who likes Team Osiris for what they are and were in Halo 5, I think the point I agree with the most is the lack of certain coexistence between them, I don't want to go into too many details, but I sincerely believe that this far from being exclusive, is something that happens with both Alpha 9 and to a greater extent with Team Noble, and that is that the teams are limited in context and characterization, that is why I have never really shared the criticism that "they come from nowhere and don't tell us their story" because that is not really done with the rest of the teams, however, other techniques are used to make them stand out and I sincerely believe that doing something like that in Halo 5 would not have been bad, even so, I am not lying when I say that the Halo 5 campaign entertains me.
Because a year before the release, the game had to be heavily redesigned due to the then leader of the Xbox. There was only enough time for three levels of the Chief.
why did the leader of xbox demand a redesign?
@@bsaintnyc Because the game would not have been released for two more years, but it was needed as soon as possible. Therefore, it had to be cut and simplified.
So they wanted to save the console when the TV didn't work.
One of the issues i dont see talked about a lot is the short story Saint's Testimony which came out right before Guardians. With Iona trying to get the UNSC to not kill her as she's reaching her 7 year lifespan and its mentioned that with all the good Cortana did that the UNSC was starting to take matters of AI specifically rights much more seriously. Thing is too Frank o Connor wrote this story and months later the story seems to be rather moot with the events of Guardians.
Are we so starved for Halo Content that we're digging up the gave of Halo 5? I just want to forget that this game ever happened.
They messed up the arbiter & chief reunion so bad I remember how it pissed me off to this day
Funny part is, Locke is wrong about the UNSC not defending Jericho VII...in fact Blue Team was there, it's literally the first scene in Fall of Reach
Running down the side of guardian was super cool!
Alpha 9 should have been the team of choice to bring back blue team. We know of alpha 9 via books and the odst game. They typically do jobs for Oni and sending a team of spartans to track down another team sounds like something Dare would do.
Biggest question of the month. Why didn’t they have any form of k9 attack dog units let alone, subject them to the grueling super soldier, augmentations used in Spartan II augmentations, Spartan’s Best Friend?
I enjoyed Halo 5, I wish I play Halo Infinite with my Multiplayer spartan. But with such a huge universe having such iconic characters, alot of stories will go untold in the video game space.
They should have either let Cortana die or have Chief recover her amidst a campaign dealing with the revenants of the covenant and propelling things back towards the Halo for subsequent games (introducing the Endless/precursors). It could get into the background of the Spartans, Halsey, and the AI.
I actually enjoyed Halo 5. I enjoyed having a squad dynamic in a Halo game and playing alongside Mal...I mean, Buck was just fun.
I've always thought Osiris should have been a 5 Spartan team. Buck or Thorne should have been Fireteam leader, with Locke as an ONI attache. Locke would have frequently broken off from the main party in pursuit of clandestine objectives that the rest of the party was not privy to. It would have allowed for Locke to be a more interesting, mysterious character while also allowing a more charismatic, established character to fill the role as team leader. It would have also created an interesting tension within Osiris on top of their pursuit of Blue Team. Then again, I also think that Cortana returning as a villain should have been scrapped in favor of allowing the Didact to continue his plans and be fleshed out as a character to those who didn't read the Forerunner Saga.
The idea of the game was good in concept, and even had the whole "the UNSC is attempting to replace the Master Chief" that started on Halo 4, but Osiris didn't had no buildup whatsoever, and the whole promotional campaign was misleading at best. None of the characters, aside from Buck, had any background, and weren't likeable. And they jammed so much " lore" on ingame dialogue to attempt to flesh the characters that, even people who read the books and saw Halo Nightfall didn't ring much with Spartan Locke, Tanaka and Vale. I mean, the whole ONI agent is a cool concept, and they could have Osiris work in the shadows, doing "questionable" objectives in greyed moral areas. Instead, they basically did what the Chief could have done (and Blue team for that matter) but alas, Blue team was so underused that it is painfull to play through. They essencially feel that they were there so that the squad mechanics could have been implemented.
Halo 5 and the criminal lack of Blue team were all because the execs and writers at 343 are idiots that assumed people didn’t think of the Master Chief as the protagonist of main line Halo games. They had no understanding of the IP or the audience they inherited by keeping this IP when Bungie left, and they have since fumbled this whole franchise so badly that it could only be credited to absolute ineptitude or malicious sabotage and I firmly believe the execs at 343 should be audited for this.
Didn't have to be that way, even with the antisocial backgrounds. Buck tried to break Locke out of his shell in a few scenes. Could easily have written more of that dynamic where Locke slowly warmed up more to Buck, and the other two learned to be actual humans. Vale's fluency should have been played up more when fighting with/against the elites. Could you imagine the banter of Vale hurdling slurs at the Storm elites and the rest of the team continuously asking, "what did that one mean?" The final punchline near the end could have been saying a slur so bad, she couldn't translate it.
Just spitballing.
No way corporate would have greenlit that in a T rated game
@@ironboy3245 Halo going T is but 343's greatest sin.
@@TheKiltedGerman greatest? i think you mean most minor. the writing is their greatest sin
@@ironboy3245 potat, potahto
Rookie and Noble Six show you absolutely can pivot away from playing as John. Bringing Cortana back for me is the single biggest thing holding it back. Jul Mdama was absolutely wasted as an antagonist and he and the didact could have carried a trilogy easily if they'd just committed to it.
lmao didact was killed in a comic book
A FUCKING COMIC BOOK
I liked that Halo 5 introduced Blue Team. But I hated all but Spartan Buck in Osiris. They should have had Alpha Nine minus the Rookie or Dare in the game so Dutch, Romeo, Mickey, and Buck (all spartanized of course) going after Blue Team.
There was a rumor I read that halo 5's story was going to be John going awol from the UNSC with his own ship on the search for Mendicant Bias who wished to atone for siding with the flood. John was going across the galaxy tracing the breadcrumbs bias sent him to find his location. Once found Bias would upload himself to Cortana's old chip , replacing Cortana.
Let’s be real, Buck was only there to appeal to fans. Otherwise if Halo 5 had been successful, 343 would 1000% replaced Chief with Locke, and probably assassinated the Chief’s character in the process like they did with Halsey and Cortana.
TL;DR, they wrote themselves into a corner where they couldn't even use all the characters and their traits. Sounds about right.
That sounds like a fantastic situation for a book series that gives us ample time to explore the characters and gives time for the characters to learn how to work together.
That's a terrible situation for an action focused game that uses primarily situational dialogue and short cutscenes to explore its characters.
Great video as ever. Cheers for the content 🍻
For all the problems Halo 5 had, I actually loved the squad mechanics. With a bit of fine tuning, it would have been on par with Republic Commando! If not better!
My favorite halo games are CE through to reach (pretty much all of the Bungie Halo games) I also really enjoy both of the Halo Wars games. But Halo 4 is where they lose me. (Partly because I find the Prometheans really annoying to fight, specifically the Watchers. I’d rather fight the Flood, and have nightmares from fighting the Flood, instead of ever fighting the Prometheans again. Lol)
From this I take: This campaign could have been very interesting, if these characters would have been regular humans.
Turning them into discount spartans helped in no way to bring out their special character traits, while breaking core spartan lore that people need to be in adolecence for the body to help grow into the physical changes.
343i watered down the impact of spartans with the spartan 4 concept, when they should have given us a campaign where some of the best humans try to bond inspite of there past and hunt a spartan legend.
And do it in the game for heavens sake!!!
Even with the same story, I would have liked if they let you use your spartan ops spartan, Thorne, buck, and one other spartan. Even Locke as long as there were others that I actually cared about.
It isn't helped that one of the major plot points is started by master chief hitting his head 15 times and having hallucination
I think a huge reason we didn't like fire team Osiris was because, as a player and an observer with outside knowledge we are rooting for the master chief for the game, our interests align with his, but we are made to play as spartan locke for most of the game who is written to oppose chief. So basically what we want as a player is the exact opposite of what we're being told is the motivation of the character we're playing as for most of the game. We are actively rooting against what we're doing.
I think the game would have been significantly better if instead of playing as locke we played as a nameless faceless member of team Osiris who is under lockes command, one who is shown through action to disagree with Locke and potentially even disobey Locke and help chief.
Imagine if instead of Osiris team standing their doing literally nothing for no reason, while we watch what is basically out character (Locke) fight chief instead out nameless character interferes and helps chief escape.
I love Blue Team and it's almost funny that John-117 is the most "ordinary" member of the team. Put aside John's utterly insane luck, Kelly and Linda are super specialists in their specific fields. Meanwhile Fred is probably more talented as a Spartan II than John. Fred's speciality is wielding knives, yet he's actually the second best sniper amongst the Spartan II's and overall pretty skilled at everything.
For me, having John leading this ridiculously talented team emphasizes John's leadership qualities and sheer willpower.
Whats weird though is like look at Nobel Team. Only in one game, not a ton of lore about them minus George i guess, all portrayed as incredibly competent, but they were received WAY better than Osiris. It seriously has to just be how the characters were written because the math adds up to them being as well received as Nobel but they just weren't.
Just finished the kilo 5 trilogy. It's the best halo story imo. Can you do some lore into that? :)
I think it also needs to be put into perspective that humanity as a whole was facing extinction at the hands of the Covenant.
I doubt you could have found any human occupied world by 2552 that had either been attacked by the Covenant or became the new home for those whose world’s were glassed.
So that said Fireteam Osiris is a good look at how psychologically humanity was affected as a whole by the Covenant.
I think it's important to point out that their backstory isn't portrayed in gameplay to their characters in Halo 5, they might be introverted in lore but they work just fine like any other team, no detriment to their cohesion as a unit. They functionally work together despite them all coming from backgrounds where they shouldn't work together. Especially Buck and Locke, they're more Lone Wolf types, that are forced to work together for no other reason than having to group up for the game. Locke ideally could have handled going after chief and blue team by himself because it fits his MO, but not Tanaka or Vale or Buck, they're too soft to be effective headhunters.
Would be so cool of there was a game diving deep into their lore and then linking it to h5
You make some good points, but just about any character type can be relatable if in a well written story....which H5 was not lol
We didn't bond with either team because the writing/stories for them was terrible. Chief was a traumatized, lone wolf, 1 liner character. Yes he was a blank slate so that players themselves could put their personalities onto him but during his moments of dialogue and character actions he was written well and for lack of a better term was a badass that fans loved. I appreciate your breaking down of the story and explaining why it didn't work.
I mean Osiri's entire motivation is just "because he told me too". I don't want to resurrect Johnson. However, I think if Johnson was in charge of fireteam Osiris I think it would have been more compelling.
I always theorized the “queen of the universe” Cortana was just an incomplete fragment. To say it was the real one is character assassination akin to Disney’s Luke Skywalker hermit.
The issue is you shouldn't need multiple books, shows, previous games etc. To fill in the back story of characters to a level we feel a connection. Take halo ce. We had a connection with john and he had very limited dialogue.
343 should have applied the rule - Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
It's a shame we lost Noble Team, I wouldn't have minded seeing them chasing after Blue Team.
The Chief and Carter would probably try to out-professional each other.
i will never forgive the halo community for the way they treated halo 5. while it definitely had its problems most were no more egregious than ones found in earlier halo games. the multiplayer was so much fun and I'll miss all those cool variations of weapons and vehicles
Yea, halo 5 had some pros. Warzone was so much fun. Fighting the covenant with people all over the world and also going against them. The story was disappointing to me, only because I expected more out of it. Hunt the Truth hyped it up to b something special, then the game came out and I was like, this the story. Basically everything was straight except the story to me
@@elijajackson9651 the problems with 5:
the entire sandbox was locked in warzone behind rng gambling mechanics where the only nway to get more reliably was to spend irl money (a gaming sin)
copied directly from titan fall's movement system. down to the hovering mechanic.
had a huge controversy about the misleading marketing
& only had the mc (main character, in this case chief) in only 3 missions which is absolutely unacceptable with how terrible the other party (Osiris) performed.
don't get me wrong, 5 is fun.
but that fun is overshadowed by the attempted offing & replacement of classic characters, lying to the costumer via marketing , inserting gambling & doing a narrative 180 from 4's ending.
these sins cannot be overlooked.
@@cr90captain89well, dang. Lol. Respect
So, a thought; What if we had gotten Halo 5 with Alpha 9 as Spartan 4's? Just... a thought for what we could have had in a different timeline.
Lore reasons don't excuse poor presentations. There are ways 343 could have gotten all of the lore in this video across and still made us the players care about Fireteam Osiris. Their lore is fascinating, and fall right in line with Halo lore. Its the execution of that established canon that is poorly done
I very much thing the ideas were definitely there to make this a great game.
The execution was just... I don't meed to explain the execution at all.
Had fun with the multiplayer though, which surprised me.
It should have been locke chasing john alone. No teams. And it should have been locke always ariving late until the final mission where he saves john after understanding his motives.