Alright Ivan! Great diagnosis and tutorial demonstration. Also good to see a real "fix" and not just a parts swap. You educated the viewers by opening up the relay and showing how the relays work and how they can fail. This is very helpful for complete understanding of electronic systems. Not many schools go into this level of instruction. Bravo!
@VPI Mike, yea I had a relay fail like that, except it looked a bit worse under the cap. Still, you'd think that manufacturers would do a better job at protecting these connections/components. That fuse box is sitting in a corner where moisture/debris accumulates and the plastic box has no seals of any kind and no doubt the underside is open to moisture. In one of my vehicles I noticed relays and fuses actually backing out of their slots. It's insane that manufacturers put so little thought into the design of these "integrated power modules".
Agree on dish & tutorial …..but is this really a fix? Relay should be replaced to fix … green crusty’s will return…you can’t stop corrosion. Same with fuse box…crusty terminal was cleaned to get vehicle running…crusty’s will return. The terminal and/or fuse box should be replaced.
@@zenithperigee7442 It all comes down to money .In earlier years the main fuse box was in the cabin but a few cents on a million cars all adds up & the manufacturers really don't care about the end user.
That little file reminds me of my "points" file ... for cleaning the contacts of the points back when distributors had that setup. After doing that, it was time to get the dwell meter to adjust the dwell angle. I know, I'm aging myself.
I still have a points file in my old toolbox that I still use occasionally for something. They come in handy at times. Also still have the dwell meter for adjusting the points dwell and a timing light. Also found an old oil can spout that you would shove into the top of an oil can to pour the oil out. Am I showing my age yet? 😂
If you want to do a _super_ good job you could put a new terminal on the corroded contact. That fusebox is literally just wires and terminals, there's no PCB or fancy nonsense in it.
High-current switch and relay contacts are usually silver plated to prevent contact welding during make/break. As the contacts try to separate, a spark forms between them (with an inductive load such as a starter solenoid). Cleaning the contacts may mean scraping off the silver. But I bet you keep a jumper wire in the glovebox and you can just pull the relay if it sticks and jumper it to start :)
I use a bit of card stock soaked in deoxit for my relay cleaning. I restore old radios and transmitters and most of the relays are silver or palladium plated. Gentle first.
I bought a set of those terminal cleaners through Amazon (paid a little extra for quality… hopefully😂) before the video was even done! Can’t count the number of times those could have come in handy had I known of them! Always take things away from these videos. Thanks Ivan (and viewer for the donation)! Nice diag BTW👍✌️
Ivan. Just a comment about cleaning rely contacts. A "hundred year ago," :-) I worked some ancient USAF H.F. Receiver-Transmitters. They even had some vacuum tubes installed - mainly in the RF and Power Out sections. There was a BIG stash of relays mounted on one end of the unit. The technical data for these RT's, in bold letters, said: "Do not burnish these relay contacts." Reason is, the contacts, originally, had a gold or sliver "flash" coating that really helped then conduct. Our techs used to burnish the contacts to clean them ,(this would remove the flash coating), however, just a few hours of use in an aircraft and they were back on the bench. (There was always a slight arcing as the contacts opened and closed.- no capacitors were used to absorb that arcing. You could burnish those contact again, and again, but the problem would return. Had to R&'R the relay - a big pain in the butt. Lots of soldering in hard to get to places. :-) Just wanted to pass that on. Sign me, "a loyal follower."
I learned auto diagnostics when I was a kid back in the 1970's and never paid more than $500.00 for a car since... some were free and in fact I actually got offered money to take some cars away. Usually, all I had to do is tell the people that I would give their old car a new home and a new life... If the car was good, most people really appreciate that. They would rather give or sell their old reliable than to see it crushed. To be honest, most cars needed some work, but over the decades, I've saved tens of thousands of dollars on new cars and I only screwed up once... a 1979 Cordoba with a lean burn engine, never got that one to stop overheating and eating transmissions. I put $600.00 in, cut my losses and got a few hundred back from "Car Cash".
Over 40 years ago, I once traced a no crank, in below freezing weather to an ICE CRYSTAL between the points of a 1979 Dodge B100 Van starter relay, which resided on the exterior driver's firewall. I have NEVER seen another fault like that since! A ONE OFF 🙂
As a former manufacturing engineer at a hi-rel military relay plant, burnishing gold plated contacts gently will work for a while. But once the gold plated contacts are compromised, the longevity drops sharply especially in unsealed enclosures. Also, substances like cardboard, which contains sulfur, is deadly for relay contacts.
Ivan, i've been watching for the last three years, keep up the great work and the informative vids, watching you go through your diagnostic process takes me back to my Dad when he was a Master Mechanic/Foreman in a UK for Vauxhall/GM. He would be called into all of the "iffy" jobs no-one else could solve just like you...happy memories :-) Happy New Year
The last elderly Turkish mechanic I worked for was also a qualified Engineer & he taught me more in the 3/4 years than all my years elsewhere he was so knowelable it was really fun to go to work.
Tweezers- Innovative Products of America, lots of connector cleaners. NO-OX-ID connector anti-oxidation compound works even on salt water boats. Keep up the good work Ivan!
I have a 2005 santa fe 3.5 and it has never failed to start and get me there. those 2.7 engines are good too, as far as I have seen. I change the oil every 3000 miles. I add ground straps from body to engine and body to battery negative first thing.
Oh and off topic but several years ago I had a realization of why cars parked on grass rust so much faster. Rust needs ferrous metal,oxygen and moisture. The realization was that plants breath in CO2 and breath out pure oxygen-much more potent fuel for oxidation than the atmosphere. Don't park over plants.
Ivan, due to the age of the vehicle, you would just swap out the relay. If you look at the contacts under a zoom stereo microscope they will be pitted and / or corroded, and relays are not that expensive. But, if you insist on cleaning the relay power contacts to have zero parts repair you can do this very effectively using a zoom stereo microscope. The process is more than filing the contact surface. Like any metal polishing you start with a relatively course cleaning surface and then move to finer and finer grit. I like the emery cloth assortment you can get on amazon which has the following grits: 150, 240, 320, 400 and 600. If you want to do both surfaces at the same time just fold over the emery cloth. I find that if you use Deoxit D5 spray as your polishing oil, like you used in the video, and you do a three step polish like 240, 400 and finally 600 grit, the pill shaped contact surfaces will be very smooth and shiny with a little of the plating removed. With a zoom stereo microscope you can make the surface very uniform and even. Before reassembling the relay you can put Grote Ultra Seal contact sealer around where the connection tabs come through the plastic. This will prevent moisture from wicking up the tab. Also, put Deoxit D100L - 2DB, in the little brush bottle, on the contacts before reassembly. The refurbished relay will work for many years to come, I know this because I have cleaned contacts on my own vehicle and have excellent results. But, if this was a customer repair, which I have to provide a warranty, I would just install a new relay. I have a very good assortment of new relays from Hella and TE in sizes ISO and Domestic micro, mini and high power with either the coil suppression resistor, diode or nothing at all and in the 4 or 5 connection tab style. I have a good mix and match of types which is less than 70 pieces total. There are some relays I do not have like duals and other special types, but having a basic assortment is usually good for the majority of relay problems.
Ivan , you are amacing, fixing those vehicles as you sayd "russian way" filing even relay points, and call it good. I love it, allways remind me that old mercedes you had there, because I own older one s124 4-matic myself. 👏
Ivan, I had the same exact problem, same car, about 3-4 yrs. ago ! Terminals were so rotten inside fuse box, remote wired a new relay outside of the fuse panel ! Customer of coarse was very pleased, minor parts required & I was the third garage to fix the crank no start ! Mine of coarse repaired her issue ! Nice video, jogged my memory ! LOL
What an amazing purchase. It's surprisingly rust free given its age, mileage and where it's lived its whole life. Hopefully you kept it, since a 4wd with good winter tires would have been handy last week with that crazy blizzard if you got it where you are.
I have a set of those abrasive tipped tweezers. I got them from Mac tools over 10 years ago. I remember asking him for a set of points files and he gave me those instead. I couldn't believe it, but they work fantastic. But yeah, classic no dollar fix for a very common problem. Nice work Ivan!
Just some advise about those old relays. I used to find relays in that condition all the tine back in the early 1970's. To refurbish after cleaning the contact surfaces inside the relay we applied OX-Guard all over the contacts and the copper rails. Then we sealed the cover on with aquarium sealer to keep vapors and moisture out of the relay. You should do that to all of the relays in that car unless you want to be repairing it a lot. You should not have any problem with those relays from corrosion ever again. Never seal a relay with with RTV that has that vinegar acid smell. Those vapors will damage the inside of the relay over time. I am still enjoying your videos. I look forward to many more. Happy New Year!
Almost no parts required, good job Ivan! To make it quiet again, you need an exhaust part and to make it reliable you may need a replacement relay. Working brains win every time!
The contact cleaner / filing tweezers tool looks useful. Amazon calls it "Terminal Cleaning Tool" and sells them in sets of 3. Perhaps you could add it to your PHAD Amazon store.
I wish you all the best for the new year and I wish you was my neighbour I just sold my car to the dealership who wanted 2500 British pounds to replace all of the modules in the car which turns out more than the car is worth on the selling marketplace up shot of it is the car's beyond economic repair for me and the shop didn't say what the problem was that put the ECU BSI BSM etc went into orbit. Thanks again for your contribution to world of cars.
I can't tell you how many times I've re serviced old relays back to working status using DeoxIt 5. Might be a good idea to remove every component one by one and ensure each contact is properly cleaned. It is a good idea on vintage cars especially in the rust belt.
From Mercedes to Porsche to Maserati to Hyundai...The background soundtrack of crickets was appropriate for this one. I learn something on every video..way to stay with it. I would have went for a new relay but would have wasted my money. My family is from eastern Europe they would have done the same thing.
Bought a 2017 Elantra when nearly new. My son now owns, over 100,000 miles, zero problems apart from failed ignition coil, $80 fix. Has the 2 liter Atkinson cycle engine, incredible gas mileage and drives really well. I have no reason to think it will not go another 100,000 miles. Probably jinxed it now 😂
Good Diagnose. Given the age and corrosion, I'd change both those relays for reliability reasons. That relay output contact and it's socket in the relay box look like they got hot to overheated and have that rust color on them. Once they overheat, they will give intermittent problems. Had an intermittent problem on a Ford Van that turned out to be the plug in connector and the Inertia Switch for the fuel pump. The output connector side of the Inertia Switch and it's plug in connector both overheated from a bad fuel pump. The night shift tech replaced the pump and pump relay with OEM parts, but didn't check the Inertia Switch contacts. And there started the intermittent engine stall while driving. I finally found it.
Happy New Year to you and your family Ivan. Regarding the corrosion in your relay situation, it's not uncommon to have it go down into the wire crimp and rot the wire off or up into the relay and damage the contacts as you found out.
My aunt had this same model car. Hers did this same thing. Took me awhile to find it but it turned out to be a rotted connector on the relay. Changed the female side of the connection and problem solved. I should've watched the whole video before I commented. Since you found exactly what i did.
I was expecting you to find the problem was an ant nest in the fuse box when I saw them running around next to it 😀. Will be waiting for the next installment on the Hyundai repairs. Happy Holidays
You have to be careful when cleaning contacts because they are rounded in shape to dissipate arching and if you flatten them then the contacts could weld themselves together. Yea you can get things working but bad things can happen even in low power applications.
I have a "Modern classic" Rover 75 diesel sedan (made under BMW ownership) that used to have a CNS issue sometimes after refueling or a short run. People were advising that the fuel pumps were shot (both new), the ECU had a brain fart, etc. I checked the fuel pump fuse and all was good, but I couldn't hear the pumps running. I wiggled the relays in the powerbarn and the pumps started working again. At this point, I knew it would start and it narrowed it down to a sticking/ defective relay. I inspected the relay and it had the green crusty. The PCB was corrosion-free, so I'm guessing that the relay allowed some condensation in and just went bad over time (The car is 21 years old). I replaced the important relays and she's been behaving ever since. Had I followed the internet's advice I'd be out of pocket.
Once you burnish the contacts, the protective finish is compromised ( you know that) and the clock starts for failure again. 225 k is pretty excellent. New relay for a reset. Great Job Ivan.
Just wana say I app love your vids. I had one recently in my shop here in ireland a nissan quashqui with a stop start issue and by following your rules with diognostics/dionosis I was able to sort the problem saving the customer a 2500 euro bill she was quoted in the main dealership. So thank you very much
And should also mention a part from 2liters of cvt oil there was No Parts Required And the dearlship wanted to change the whole CVT harness and module so as we say here Happy Days 🙂🙂🙂 All I can say is thank you again 🙂
That was a similar problem in my great uncles stepdaughters 1997 model Ford EL Falcon (Australian made),the problem wax caused by an aftermarket engine immobilizer / car alarm so I just bypassed it & wired the ignition positive supply back to how Ford originally had it,it was connected in series with the ignition switch !
long time ago I cleaned up an 6 year old Honda Accord window relay with sand paper and ten years later still good. some times things left the factory less than optimum condition.
bought my 87' honda civic for $500 (20 years ago), went through 2 whole sets of tires (8 tires) starter and alternator ($1000 of parts) and then front end alignment, it ran like a tank (a slow one at that) and would still be running if i hadnt sold it
That’s a fun one. I always liked picking up used cars and fixing all the various problems. Over the last 20 years I have bought 5 cars on my street alone. Not one was advertised for sale. If I see one sitting for a while or damaged I’ll make an offer. Come out pretty good on most of them. I’m kind of surprised you guys don’t buy more used cars but I’m sure your busy enough with everything else.
theres ALOT of hawks out there looking to buy flipper cars nowadays with the shortages.. the only reason that car was still there is because nobody else saw it,. hell the junkyards will give you 500 to 700 if u have a title to it and will come to you and pick it up .
Another great video. Of the hundreds of RUclips channels I subscribe to, this is one of only two that I actually look forward to. It's a great comfort to know that I can bring my car to you in case of a serious problem. Best of luck to you in the coming year in growing your business and keep the videos coming.
My Dad had the inline 4 CRD version of this, had an intermittent crank no start issue that we never managed to resolve (a squirt of brake cleaner in the intake was the only way to get it going), eventually got rid of it and got a used Merc ML.
Wow, Ivan. Not a bad deal! 300 for crank no start car! 225k. Sweet. Those issues you'll have it licked!! Easy peasy job, lol. I'm sure you'll put Ivan russian approved repair on the exhaust system. Remember the mystique exhaust job? You repacked the muffler and welded it!! Nice one. I'm sure we will see the same thing again lol. Sweet video! Great explanation. Many thanks 😊 Happy New Year to you and Amanda!!
Nice job keeping the hyundai on the road. They are really great cars and easy to work on, you just have to keep oil in the motor because they tend to burn oil. I just run about 40 percent Lucas and regular engine weight oil in mine and it stops the oil burning in its tracks.
@Troy Belding yea I tried all kinds of things before I landed on the solution with the Lucas. Thanks for asking I appreciate it. And just cause it worked for my 2.4L doesn't mean it'll work for everyone.
Only the GDI models and 2019 and up seem to have nipped that in the bud. Their early-mid 2000s motors were rock solid if taken care of and didn't eat oil anymore than your average Toyota.
While you give your location as State College, PA you actually live in Pennsylvania Furnace. Now, while I think that would be a wonderful place to live (just the scenery around your house is beautiful) there aren't likely that many people that live there. I would think that your neighbors would know about you and your work. (I'll bet this neighbor does now!) I would have brought the car to you and at least got a diagnosis. You can't beat "no parts required." Great video!
You did it again Ivan, great video. I've seen similar situations like this after working in a shop for forty years. Technician A says "it's fixed, the connection was corroded...cleaned connection at relay".....car won't start when customer comes to pick it up. Tech B says " fixed......cleaned connection at fuse box, replaced relay''', starts ok now. Tech C says " relay and connector corroded............WHY?.........I've got to find the source of the corrosion.
Hi Ivan, too bad you live in the middle of PA. Your troubleshooting abilities are second to none. Eric and WWW are great but you do it on a shoestring. The nice thing is that you can be trusted! You obviously do the repair and troubleshooting for sheer fun/challenge. Some of the stories of the history of some of your projects scream run run run but no, someone asked for help and you take on the challenge. Has there ever been a problem you could not fix? Satisfied customer.
I bought a set of 3 of those terminal cleaners through NAPA. Could have gotten cheaper through Amazon, but NAPA got them next day,no extra charge and I needed them ASAP. The rivet is tight, but not so tight that I can pivot the two parts away which lets me use them on fuse box terminals.
I'd check under the fusebox for more nasty green stuff..and whether it goes farther into those wires..plus check for Rodent chewing damage too? Worth the time to look deeper and fix anything you might miss...
These older Hyundai's and older Kia's are still good vehicles to purchase, because the newer ones with GDI technology are not that great. Most of the newer models had numerous recalls and numerous amount of problems. The older models are the best, ever.
I still have a points cleaning file in my toolbox that I got when I was in my 20's. Serves the same purpose and has been useful many times. Thanks Ivan!
Was a field engineer for 40 years, be interested how long filing the contacts buys the relay, we carried contact burnishing tools to make temp fixes to contacts, kept the equipment running until we could source a replacement, as even just burnishing the contacts, accelerated the time for corrosion to reappear.
older moped had contact points, and I was told they come with a hard coating new. once that hard coating has degraded and burnt, it can be sanded off. also, it is recommended to use white paper to remove dust left over and totally seal the area. after sanding the points the moped would deliver no more than 16 hours of drive/idle time before the points failed again from burning. cdi ignition was a huge advancement over breaker points.
@@edwardjames6070 most of the new relays for low current co.e with a gold coating that burnishing and filing remove, once you get to the base metal it pits very quickly
Excellent video and terrific story. I am singing the same song because I just bought my own Awd/SUV 1999 Honda Crv. One owner who drove it and really didn't fix anything that broke over the years so I am in process of fixing it. Awesome little tank that 98 Crv
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes Ivan, you are a genius who is right on the money. The 1999 CR-V does have rust at the bottom of all 4 doors which I will patch but overall, great little buggy. It's us guys with passion who keeps the old automobiles alive. Question: Crv starts right up however after it reaches normal operating temperature, the idle becomes erratic/ loopy/ unbalanced like it is going to stall- revs high-settles to normal- drops to point of stall- catches itself & so on. I changed distributor: spark plugs and wires & cleaned thottle body but trouble still exists with no codes. In your quick opinion, should I replace t.p.s. / I a.c. or the fast idle control valve. In mean time, I will check for vacuum leaks. I live in Elizabeth, N.J. . Back in the summer time- I was thrilled to see you visit Staten island, N.y. which is about 3 miles away from me. I'm sure you seen how much money people pay in tolls to travel a few miles. Be blessed and a gracious thank you for your dedication and videos. Luved the video of you driving the back roads in the snow in your Suzuki XL-7....
@@robertdiehl9003 Sounds like a closed loop problem to me...like a dead oxygen sensor. Don't replace ANY factory parts without a diagnosis first...OBD live data (O2 sensors, fuel trims) should make it pretty clear :)
As you worked I noticed Carpenter Ants on the fender. These ants commonly nest in machinery. Our dishwasher started acting up. We had been noticing the occasional ant in the kitchen. When I disassembled the dishwasher door where the control board was located I found a colony of Carpenter Ants living on the circuit board. Although not related to the problem here,, I can imagine Carpenter Ants causing an automotive electrical problem.
For the 'green crusties' nothing beats citric acid. You can buy it as dry granules and dissolve into hot distilled water. Apply citric acid, let it do its job, flush with water, let dry. You can also flush with alcohol after water so it dries faster. Then use Deoxit.
Love those contact tweezers. Years ago I was told once you file off or the corrosion removes the surface plating on contacts, the hardness is now gone and they will eventually "arc" and build up debris then fail early. This was in the day of ignition points that the story was told. Depending on the direction of the repair, it's likely best to replace those for the long haul especially when they are easy to get to and price is very low. Contacts have a hard plating on them and once its gone...failure sets in. Two oil & filter changes sound reasonable based on how the previous owner maintained it. I'd check all of the fluids and replace them except for the transmission fluid unless there is evidence that fluid was change at least two times before. V6, 4x4, 4 door and overall size of this car seems fairly reasonable as an all season utilitarian vehicle.
Either the flowers are late bloomers or early bloomers. Nice NYE weather! ;) Great quick diag too. I was expecting you to offer to sell it back to the owner for cheap or do some sort of donation with it. Since it was such a cheap price, easy fix and you're that kind of guy. And as other said with filing the relay contacts, they are plated and can stick if the plating is worn off and can melt and fuse the relay on. It will probably never happen but they do plate them for a reason. But not a biggie on this vehicle.
I have several different terminal files and it amazes me how often I use them. I originally bought them for a project I was working on thinking it will probably be the last time I use them.Wrong I use them a lot.Can’t wait for part 2.
Great job once again. Your videos are always interesting plus I learn a thing or two along the way as a bonus. Going to pick up a set of those terminal cleaners via your link. GC got us home safely with the new Clutch pulley. Happy New Year!
Ivan's reaction when he said "crank no start, that's interesting!" perfectly encapsulates his attitude.
Priceless.
Alright Ivan! Great diagnosis and tutorial demonstration. Also good to see a real "fix" and not just a parts swap. You educated the viewers by opening up the relay and showing how the relays work and how they can fail. This is very helpful for complete understanding of electronic systems. Not many schools go into this level of instruction. Bravo!
@VPI Mike, yea I had a relay fail like that, except it looked a bit worse under the cap. Still, you'd think that manufacturers would do a better job at protecting these connections/components. That fuse box is sitting in a corner where moisture/debris accumulates and the plastic box has no seals of any kind and no doubt the underside is open to moisture. In one of my vehicles I noticed relays and fuses actually backing out of their slots. It's insane that manufacturers put so little thought into the design of these "integrated power modules".
Agree on dish & tutorial …..but is this really a fix?
Relay should be replaced to fix … green crusty’s will return…you can’t stop corrosion. Same with fuse box…crusty terminal was cleaned to get vehicle running…crusty’s will return. The terminal and/or fuse box should be replaced.
@@zenithperigee7442 It all comes down to money .In earlier years the main fuse box was in the cabin but a few cents on a million cars all adds up & the manufacturers really don't care about the end user.
@@diyeveryday67 If some diaelectric grease is used the problem should not return quickly.
@@diyeveryday67 You would most likely not be able to get those parts new anymore !!
That little file reminds me of my "points" file ... for cleaning the contacts of the points back when distributors had that setup. After doing that, it was time to get the dwell meter to adjust the dwell angle. I know, I'm aging myself.
After reading your comment, I went to my tool box and guess what, my points cleaning file is still there.
I don't know what ever happened to my points file...probably in a box somewhere next to my timing light... :) Bunch of us here aren't so young.
@@dchirsch Yeah we old retired spanner spinners live vicarsually through the guys on YT.
I keep saying, capacitor discharge is as far as they needed to go.
I still have a points file in my old toolbox that I still use occasionally for something. They come in handy at times. Also still have the dwell meter for adjusting the points dwell and a timing light. Also found an old oil can spout that you would shove into the top of an oil can to pour the oil out. Am I showing my age yet? 😂
If you want to do a _super_ good job you could put a new terminal on the corroded contact. That fusebox is literally just wires and terminals, there's no PCB or fancy nonsense in it.
High-current switch and relay contacts are usually silver plated to prevent contact welding during make/break. As the contacts try to separate, a spark forms between them (with an inductive load such as a starter solenoid). Cleaning the contacts may mean scraping off the silver. But I bet you keep a jumper wire in the glovebox and you can just pull the relay if it sticks and jumper it to start :)
salvage yards gladly sell the fuse box and contents for about 30 bucks. that's a part they usually don't sell.
@@edwardjames6070 But then it wouldn't be "no parts required"!!
Nice reminder about contact finishes! Keeps in mind that there’s a time and a place for things🙂👍
I use a bit of card stock soaked in deoxit for my relay cleaning. I restore old radios and transmitters and most of the relays are silver or palladium plated. Gentle first.
@@ne2i Interesting! Do old relays have thicker plating than new ones? That might be a factor, too.
I bought a set of those terminal cleaners through Amazon (paid a little extra for quality… hopefully😂) before the video was even done! Can’t count the number of times those could have come in handy had I known of them! Always take things away from these videos. Thanks Ivan (and viewer for the donation)! Nice diag BTW👍✌️
Up until seeing them I glued some 1500 wet & dry to a pair of tweezers that came in my computer screwdriver tool kit.
@@LesReeves lol! Nice
Ivan is the only guy that buys a car and is more happy when it breaks down. :)
🤣
Looking forward to part 2. Roadkill 2.0.
same here
I love this generation of Hyundai, my first car was a 2005 Hyundai Elantra and I loved that car.
darn good car
Ivan. Just a comment about cleaning rely contacts. A "hundred year ago," :-) I worked some ancient USAF H.F. Receiver-Transmitters. They even had some vacuum tubes installed - mainly in the RF and Power Out sections.
There was a BIG stash of relays mounted on one end of the unit. The technical data for these RT's, in bold letters, said: "Do not burnish these relay contacts." Reason is, the contacts, originally, had a gold or sliver "flash" coating that really helped then conduct.
Our techs used to burnish the contacts to clean them ,(this would remove the flash coating), however, just a few hours of use in an aircraft and they were back on the bench. (There was always a slight arcing as the contacts opened and closed.- no capacitors were used to absorb that arcing.
You could burnish those contact again, and again, but the problem would return. Had to R&'R the relay - a big pain in the butt. Lots of soldering in hard to get to places. :-) Just wanted to pass that on. Sign me, "a loyal follower."
That's why I swapped it with the starter relay which is only momentarily energized 😉
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That was a great idea - I forgot you mentioned that. Thanks.
I learned auto diagnostics when I was a kid back in the 1970's and never paid more than $500.00 for a car since... some were free and in fact I actually got offered money to take some cars away. Usually, all I had to do is tell the people that I would give their old car a new home and a new life... If the car was good, most people really appreciate that. They would rather give or sell their old reliable than to see it crushed.
To be honest, most cars needed some work, but over the decades, I've saved tens of thousands of dollars on new cars and I only screwed up once... a 1979 Cordoba with a lean burn engine, never got that one to stop overheating and eating transmissions. I put $600.00 in, cut my losses and got a few hundred back from "Car Cash".
That Pico scope is a super useful tool.
Over 40 years ago, I once traced a no crank, in below freezing weather to an ICE CRYSTAL between the points of a 1979 Dodge B100 Van starter relay, which resided on the exterior driver's firewall. I have NEVER seen another fault like that since! A ONE OFF 🙂
As a former manufacturing engineer at a hi-rel military relay plant, burnishing gold plated contacts gently will work for a while. But once the gold plated contacts are compromised, the longevity drops sharply especially in unsealed enclosures. Also, substances like cardboard, which contains sulfur, is deadly for relay contacts.
So now you have a relaxing job at hand. Not as the M’rati.
The very best wishes from the Netherlands to you and your loved ones.
Ivan, i've been watching for the last three years, keep up the great work and the informative vids, watching you go through your diagnostic process takes me back to my Dad when he was a Master Mechanic/Foreman in a UK for Vauxhall/GM. He would be called into all of the "iffy" jobs no-one else could solve just like you...happy memories :-) Happy New Year
The last elderly Turkish mechanic I worked for was also a qualified Engineer & he taught me more in the 3/4 years than all my years elsewhere he was so knowelable it was really fun to go to work.
Tweezers- Innovative Products of America, lots of connector cleaners. NO-OX-ID connector anti-oxidation compound works even on salt water boats. Keep up the good work Ivan!
Crank no-start!?!
That's our favorite!
I have a 2005 santa fe 3.5 and it has never failed to start and get me there. those 2.7 engines are good too, as far as I have seen. I change the oil every 3000 miles. I add ground straps from body to engine and body to battery negative first thing.
Oh and off topic but several years ago I had a realization of why cars parked on grass rust so much faster.
Rust needs ferrous metal,oxygen and moisture.
The realization was that plants breath in CO2 and breath out pure oxygen-much more potent fuel for oxidation than the atmosphere.
Don't park over plants.
that's good advice
Ivan, due to the age of the vehicle, you would just swap out the relay. If you look at the contacts under a zoom stereo microscope they will be pitted and / or corroded, and relays are not that expensive.
But, if you insist on cleaning the relay power contacts to have zero parts repair you can do this very effectively using a zoom stereo microscope. The process is more than filing the contact surface. Like any metal polishing you start with a relatively course cleaning surface and then move to finer and finer grit. I like the emery cloth assortment you can get on amazon which has the following grits: 150, 240, 320, 400 and 600. If you want to do both surfaces at the same time just fold over the emery cloth.
I find that if you use Deoxit D5 spray as your polishing oil, like you used in the video, and you do a three step polish like 240, 400 and finally 600 grit, the pill shaped contact surfaces will be very smooth and shiny with a little of the plating removed. With a zoom stereo microscope you can make the surface very uniform and even. Before reassembling the relay you can put Grote Ultra Seal contact sealer around where the connection tabs come through the plastic. This will prevent moisture from wicking up the tab. Also, put Deoxit D100L - 2DB, in the little brush bottle, on the contacts before reassembly. The refurbished relay will work for many years to come, I know this because I have cleaned contacts on my own vehicle and have excellent results. But, if this was a customer repair, which I have to provide a warranty, I would just install a new relay.
I have a very good assortment of new relays from Hella and TE in sizes ISO and Domestic micro, mini and high power with either the coil suppression resistor, diode or nothing at all and in the 4 or 5 connection tab style. I have a good mix and match of types which is less than 70 pieces total. There are some relays I do not have like duals and other special types, but having a basic assortment is usually good for the majority of relay problems.
Ivan , you are amacing, fixing those vehicles as you sayd "russian way" filing even relay points, and call it good. I love it, allways remind me that old mercedes you had there, because I own older one s124 4-matic myself. 👏
Ivan, I had the same exact problem, same car, about 3-4 yrs. ago ! Terminals were so rotten inside fuse box, remote wired a new relay outside of the fuse panel ! Customer of coarse was very pleased, minor parts required & I was the third garage to fix the crank no start ! Mine of coarse repaired her issue ! Nice video, jogged my memory ! LOL
What an amazing purchase. It's surprisingly rust free given its age, mileage and where it's lived its whole life. Hopefully you kept it, since a 4wd with good winter tires would have been handy last week with that crazy blizzard if you got it where you are.
I have a set of those abrasive tipped tweezers. I got them from Mac tools over 10 years ago. I remember asking him for a set of points files and he gave me those instead. I couldn't believe it, but they work fantastic. But yeah, classic no dollar fix for a very common problem. Nice work Ivan!
Just some advise about those old relays. I used to find relays in that condition all the tine back in the early 1970's. To refurbish after cleaning the contact surfaces inside the relay we applied OX-Guard all over the contacts and the copper rails. Then we sealed the cover on with aquarium sealer to keep vapors and moisture out of the relay. You should do that to all of the relays in that car unless you want to be repairing it a lot.
You should not have any problem with those relays from corrosion ever again. Never seal a relay with with RTV that has that vinegar acid smell. Those vapors will damage the inside of the relay over time.
I am still enjoying your videos. I look forward to many more. Happy New Year!
Happy New Year Ivan and family keep up the great work 🎉
Almost no parts required, good job Ivan! To make it quiet again, you need an exhaust part and to make it reliable you may need a replacement relay. Working brains win every time!
Ivan Is a master mechanic. Some of the best car repair videos
The contact cleaner / filing tweezers tool looks useful. Amazon calls it "Terminal Cleaning Tool" and sells them in sets of 3. Perhaps you could add it to your PHAD Amazon store.
What's the link?
Just bought a set for myself.
I wish you all the best for the new year and I wish you was my neighbour I just sold my car to the dealership who wanted 2500 British pounds to replace all of the modules in the car which turns out more than the car is worth on the selling marketplace up shot of it is the car's beyond economic repair for me and the shop didn't say what the problem was that put the ECU BSI BSM etc went into orbit. Thanks again for your contribution to world of cars.
Happy New Year, everyone.
Thank you, Ivan, for all your hard work and sharing your knowledge with us.
I can't tell you how many times I've re serviced old relays back to working status using DeoxIt 5. Might be a good idea to remove every component one by one and ensure each contact is properly cleaned. It is a good idea on vintage cars especially in the rust belt.
From Mercedes to Porsche to Maserati to Hyundai...The background soundtrack of crickets was appropriate for this one. I learn something on every video..way to stay with it. I would have went for a new relay but would have wasted my money. My family is from eastern Europe they would have done the same thing.
That's Great Ivan! Fun to find a cheap vehicle and rescue it. Fun to watch too!
You are alot like me. I try to fix a part before buying a new one. Good job.
Bought a 2017 Elantra when nearly new. My son now owns, over 100,000 miles, zero problems apart from failed ignition coil, $80 fix. Has the 2 liter Atkinson cycle engine, incredible gas mileage and drives really well. I have no reason to think it will not go another 100,000 miles. Probably jinxed it now 😂
If it's direct injected, reliability sharply falls after 100k miles 😅👍
the 2001 to 2005 elantra was a good car.
Good Diagnose. Given the age and corrosion, I'd change both those relays for reliability reasons. That relay output contact and it's socket in the relay box look like they got hot to overheated and have that rust color on them. Once they overheat, they will give intermittent problems.
Had an intermittent problem on a Ford Van that turned out to be the plug in connector and the Inertia Switch for the fuel pump. The output connector side of the Inertia Switch and it's plug in connector both overheated from a bad fuel pump. The night shift tech replaced the pump and pump relay with OEM parts, but didn't check the Inertia Switch contacts. And there started the intermittent engine stall while driving. I finally found it.
Happy New Year to you and your family Ivan. Regarding the corrosion in your relay situation, it's not uncommon to have it go down into the wire crimp and rot the wire off or up into the relay and damage the contacts as you found out.
My aunt had this same model car. Hers did this same thing. Took me awhile to find it but it turned out to be a rotted connector on the relay. Changed the female side of the connection and problem solved. I should've watched the whole video before I commented. Since you found exactly what i did.
I was expecting you to find the problem was an ant nest in the fuse box when I saw them running around next to it 😀.
Will be waiting for the next installment on the Hyundai repairs.
Happy Holidays
To borrow a line from "The A-Team" - I love it when a plan comes together. You scored a win with your plan on fixing this one! Great job.
You have to be careful when cleaning contacts because they are rounded in shape to dissipate arching and if you flatten them then the contacts could weld themselves together. Yea you can get things working but bad things can happen even in low power applications.
Hope you and yours have a very happy new year Ivan ,and the weather hasn't been too dreadful for you.
Ivan " Bloody Well Done "
Cheers from a rainy San Francisco.....
I have a "Modern classic" Rover 75 diesel sedan (made under BMW ownership) that used to have a CNS issue sometimes after refueling or a short run. People were advising that the fuel pumps were shot (both new), the ECU had a brain fart, etc. I checked the fuel pump fuse and all was good, but I couldn't hear the pumps running. I wiggled the relays in the powerbarn and the pumps started working again. At this point, I knew it would start and it narrowed it down to a sticking/ defective relay.
I inspected the relay and it had the green crusty. The PCB was corrosion-free, so I'm guessing that the relay allowed some condensation in and just went bad over time (The car is 21 years old). I replaced the important relays and she's been behaving ever since. Had I followed the internet's advice I'd be out of pocket.
Always brightens my day when I wake up to a new video from
Pine Hollow Diagnostics!!!!
Once you burnish the contacts, the protective finish is compromised ( you know that) and the clock starts for failure again. 225 k is pretty excellent. New relay for a reset. Great Job Ivan.
Just wana say I app love your vids.
I had one recently in my shop here in ireland a nissan quashqui with a stop start issue and by following your rules with diognostics/dionosis I was able to sort the problem saving the customer a 2500 euro bill she was quoted in the main dealership.
So thank you very much
That's fantastic!
And should also mention a part from 2liters of cvt oil there was No Parts Required
And the dearlship wanted to change the whole CVT harness and module so as we say here Happy Days 🙂🙂🙂
All I can say is thank you again 🙂
That was a similar problem in my great uncles stepdaughters 1997 model Ford EL Falcon (Australian made),the problem wax caused by an aftermarket engine immobilizer / car alarm so I just bypassed it & wired the ignition positive supply back to how Ford originally had it,it was connected in series with the ignition switch !
long time ago I cleaned up an 6 year old Honda Accord window relay with sand paper and ten years later still good. some times things left the factory less than optimum condition.
Like a true artist you make it all look so simple.
You can find those terminal cleaners on Amazon.
Innovative Products 8040 3-Piece Diamond Grip Terminal Cleaner Set a.co/d/4pskEvT
Good job! I like to see vehicles that people are ready to give up on run again!
bought my 87' honda civic for $500 (20 years ago), went through 2 whole sets of tires (8 tires) starter and alternator ($1000 of parts) and then front end alignment, it ran like a tank (a slow one at that) and would still be running if i hadnt sold it
Another genius diagnostic. Brilliant.
well worst case scenario the cat would cover the price, but we all know this won't do. Love your work Ivan.
That’s a fun one. I always liked picking up used cars and fixing all the various problems. Over the last 20 years I have bought 5 cars on my street alone. Not one was advertised for sale. If I see one sitting for a while or damaged I’ll make an offer. Come out pretty good on most of them. I’m kind of surprised you guys don’t buy more used cars but I’m sure your busy enough with everything else.
theres ALOT of hawks out there looking to buy flipper cars nowadays with the shortages.. the only reason that car was still there is because nobody else saw it,. hell the junkyards will give you 500 to 700 if u have a title to it and will come to you and pick it up .
Wow 300 smackeroos and diag NPR!!! Nice work Ivan!!!
Another great video. Of the hundreds of RUclips channels I subscribe to, this is one of only two that I actually look forward to. It's a great comfort to know that I can bring my car to you in case of a serious problem. Best of luck to you in the coming year in growing your business and keep the videos coming.
My Dad had the inline 4 CRD version of this, had an intermittent crank no start issue that we never managed to resolve (a squirt of brake cleaner in the intake was the only way to get it going), eventually got rid of it and got a used Merc ML.
Very nice diagnosis. That relay was sus to me once I saw how the circuit worked from your diagrams.
Wow, Ivan. Not a bad deal! 300 for crank no start car! 225k. Sweet. Those issues you'll have it licked!! Easy peasy job, lol. I'm sure you'll put Ivan russian approved repair on the exhaust system. Remember the mystique exhaust job? You repacked the muffler and welded it!! Nice one. I'm sure we will see the same thing again lol. Sweet video! Great explanation. Many thanks 😊
Happy New Year to you and Amanda!!
Nice job keeping the hyundai on the road. They are really great cars and easy to work on, you just have to keep oil in the motor because they tend to burn oil. I just run about 40 percent Lucas and regular engine weight oil in mine and it stops the oil burning in its tracks.
Have you tried just going up one weight of oil, instead of the Lucas? As long as you're not in Canada, it shouldn't have any problems doing that.
@Troy Belding yea I tried all kinds of things before I landed on the solution with the Lucas. Thanks for asking I appreciate it. And just cause it worked for my 2.4L doesn't mean it'll work for everyone.
Only the GDI models and 2019 and up seem to have nipped that in the bud. Their early-mid 2000s motors were rock solid if taken care of and didn't eat oil anymore than your average Toyota.
While you give your location as State College, PA you actually live in Pennsylvania Furnace. Now, while I think that would be a wonderful place to live (just the scenery around your house is beautiful) there aren't likely that many people that live there. I would think that your neighbors would know about you and your work. (I'll bet this neighbor does now!) I would have brought the car to you and at least got a diagnosis. You can't beat "no parts required." Great video!
A nice little runaround if it runs and drives OK to give to sum one who is down on the luck happy new year to everyone
You did it again Ivan, great video. I've seen similar situations like this after working in a shop for forty years. Technician A says "it's fixed, the connection was corroded...cleaned connection at relay".....car won't start when customer comes to pick it up. Tech B says " fixed......cleaned connection at fuse box, replaced relay''', starts ok now. Tech C says " relay and connector corroded............WHY?.........I've got to find the source of the corrosion.
If you have the opportunity it might be worth lifting that junction box and changing that terminal- don’t want it letting you down again
Regardless of issues, it's still a great find. Can't find anything like that in NJ. Definitely been looking.
Hi Ivan, too bad you live in the middle of PA. Your troubleshooting abilities are second to none. Eric and WWW are great but you do it on a shoestring. The nice thing is that you can be trusted! You obviously do the repair and troubleshooting for sheer fun/challenge. Some of the stories of the history of some of your projects scream run run run but no, someone asked for help and you take on the challenge. Has there ever been a problem you could not fix? Satisfied customer.
That is the main reason I watch his channel; that's the way my dad did it. He has little to no overhead.
I bought a set of 3 of those terminal cleaners through NAPA. Could have gotten cheaper through Amazon, but NAPA got them next day,no extra charge and I needed them ASAP. The rivet is tight, but not so tight that I can pivot the two parts away which lets me use them on fuse box terminals.
Good job, Ivan tracing the problem back to the relay.. thanks for the education on the process.
Nice work again Ivan. Maybe some sugar on the contacts would clean them right up.🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜lol
Great to see a personal project video.
Thank you for all of your excellent content, a happy and a healthy new year to you and your family
I'd check under the fusebox for more nasty green stuff..and whether it goes farther into those wires..plus check for Rodent chewing damage too? Worth the time to look deeper and fix anything you might miss...
All those leaves under the hood are probably a sign the drain channels are clogged so the excess rain and moisture was getting into the relay box.
These older Hyundai's and older Kia's are still good vehicles to purchase, because the newer ones with GDI technology are not that great. Most of the newer models had numerous recalls and numerous amount of problems. The older models are the best, ever.
generally speaking GDI is not so good
@@edwardjames6070 Agreed
Yep we have a 2005 Tucson with 160k miles, great vehicle!
Gdi is engineered obsolescence
Ivan needs to add Ant & Roach spray to his arsenal of tools or he'll never get ALL the bugs out of that car! 😂
I always look forward to and enjoy your holiday specials!
I still have a points cleaning file in my toolbox that I got when I was in my 20's. Serves the same purpose and has been useful many times. Thanks Ivan!
Was a field engineer for 40 years, be interested how long filing the contacts buys the relay, we carried contact burnishing tools to make temp fixes to contacts, kept the equipment running until we could source a replacement, as even just burnishing the contacts, accelerated the time for corrosion to reappear.
older moped had contact points, and I was told they come with a hard coating new. once that hard coating has degraded and burnt, it can be sanded off. also, it is recommended to use white paper to remove dust left over and totally seal the area. after sanding the points the moped would deliver no more than 16 hours of drive/idle time before the points failed again from burning. cdi ignition was a huge advancement over breaker points.
@@edwardjames6070 most of the new relays for low current co.e with a gold coating that burnishing and filing remove, once you get to the base metal it pits very quickly
One of them gremlins got loose from a car he was working on, and ran over to the neighbors car. 😊
Looking forward to what comes in next year.
Excellent video and terrific story. I am singing the same song because I just bought my own Awd/SUV 1999 Honda Crv. One owner who drove it and really didn't fix anything that broke over the years so I am in process of fixing it. Awesome little tank that 98 Crv
Those are awesome as long as the body isn't rotted out!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes Ivan, you are a genius who is right on the money. The 1999 CR-V does have rust at the bottom of all 4 doors which I will patch but overall, great little buggy. It's us guys with passion who keeps the old automobiles alive. Question: Crv starts right up however after it reaches normal operating temperature, the idle becomes erratic/ loopy/ unbalanced like it is going to stall- revs high-settles to normal- drops to point of stall- catches itself & so on. I changed distributor: spark plugs and wires & cleaned thottle body but trouble still exists with no codes. In your quick opinion, should I replace t.p.s. / I a.c. or the fast idle control valve. In mean time, I will check for vacuum leaks. I live in Elizabeth, N.J. . Back in the summer time- I was thrilled to see you visit Staten island, N.y. which is about 3 miles away from me. I'm sure you seen how much money people pay in tolls to travel a few miles. Be blessed and a gracious thank you for your dedication and videos. Luved the video of you driving the back roads in the snow in your Suzuki XL-7....
@@robertdiehl9003 Sounds like a closed loop problem to me...like a dead oxygen sensor. Don't replace ANY factory parts without a diagnosis first...OBD live data (O2 sensors, fuel trims) should make it pretty clear :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics ok. Thank you. I will check o2 sensor. Happy new year..
I replaced #1 02 sensor and CR-V now runs fine. No looping/surging idle. Ivan, you have the gift if an automotive technician genius...
As you worked I noticed Carpenter Ants on the fender. These ants commonly nest in machinery. Our dishwasher started acting up. We had been noticing the occasional ant in the kitchen. When I disassembled the dishwasher door where the control board was located I found a colony of Carpenter Ants living on the circuit board. Although not related to the problem here,, I can imagine Carpenter Ants causing an automotive electrical problem.
For the 'green crusties' nothing beats citric acid. You can buy it as dry granules and dissolve into hot distilled water. Apply citric acid, let it do its job, flush with water, let dry. You can also flush with alcohol after water so it dries faster. Then use Deoxit.
Love those contact tweezers. Years ago I was told once you file off or the corrosion removes the surface plating on contacts, the hardness is now gone and they will eventually "arc" and build up debris then fail early. This was in the day of ignition points that the story was told. Depending on the direction of the repair, it's likely best to replace those for the long haul especially when they are easy to get to and price is very low. Contacts have a hard plating on them and once its gone...failure sets in.
Two oil & filter changes sound reasonable based on how the previous owner maintained it. I'd check all of the fluids and replace them except for the transmission fluid unless there is evidence that fluid was change at least two times before.
V6, 4x4, 4 door and overall size of this car seems fairly reasonable as an all season utilitarian vehicle.
Those older Hyundais aren’t as bad as everyone’s makes them out to be. I guess it’s hit or miss but this guy really took care of it
Happy New Year Ivan! It's already 2023 here, 2 AM and some booze in :-) Great to see a good old relay recovery :-) Wonder why a Part 2 is required...
Ivan, this reminds me of when I emailed you that picture of my fuse panel on my VW.
Either the flowers are late bloomers or early bloomers. Nice NYE weather! ;)
Great quick diag too. I was expecting you to offer to sell it back to the owner for cheap or do some sort of donation with it. Since it was such a cheap price, easy fix and you're that kind of guy.
And as other said with filing the relay contacts, they are plated and can stick if the plating is worn off and can melt and fuse the relay on. It will probably never happen but they do plate them for a reason. But not a biggie on this vehicle.
I have several different terminal files and it amazes me how often I use them. I originally bought them for a project I was working on thinking it will probably be the last time I use them.Wrong I use them a lot.Can’t wait for part 2.
Awesome deal! Great video! Step by step diagnostics very easy to follow. Happy New Year!
He ivan. Nice bargain. Check the rear subframe. Where it bolts to the body. They are notorious for rust.
and the lower control arms. from the inside out.
Wow you have found a way to advance into spring. Like to see that video on how you did it!
happy new year ivan and your wife
HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!! ivan you are in top of your craft watching your vidios has taught me a lot thanks
Fire the Parts Cannon! Go buy a cheap Chinese Relay!!! Happy New Year Ivan!
Great job once again. Your videos are always interesting plus I learn a thing or two along the way as a bonus. Going to pick up a set of those terminal cleaners via your link. GC got us home safely with the new Clutch pulley. Happy New Year!