ExileCon 2023 - Rendering Path of Exile 2
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- Опубликовано: 31 окт 2023
- A talk from Alexander Sannikov, a programmer at Grinding Gear Games. Recorded at ExileCon 2023.
You can find Alexander's RUclips channel here: / @alexander_sannikov
The Shadertoy Alexander mentions during the talk can be found here: www.shadertoy.com/view/mlscz8
Alexander's article on Radiance Cascades can be found here: drive.google.com/file/d/1L6v1... 
Игры
a game can't have a better marketing campaign than just puting the pople that worked on it in the spotlight and have them talk about what they do. the only condition is they have to be as passionate about their jobs as the guys from GGG. like check out this guy, he likes his job so much he wants to share what he does with everyone and doesn't understand why people working on other games don't share their ideas as well 5:41 bless his heart
Yes it can, lole giving every player $100 or even better $1000 or even better 10000 or even better 100000 or even better 10000000 or even better 100000000 or EVNE bettrm10000000000 or even better b100000000000000
This approach has caused a lot of bad press too. Notoriously "you guys don't have phones?" was said by a project lead at Blizzard and caused massive backlash. You can't just put anyone on a stage and have them captivate people and really sell your product.
I still love the transparency and passion that is evident from presentations like this.
I imagine most of the people at the bleeding edge of computer graphics feel the same way as he does in regard to the sharing of information. They all come from heavy research backgrounds with PhDs in something related to computer graphics, they are used to the necessary sharing of information in the context of scientific research. These guarded proprietary solutions to general graphics problems have to be frustrating for them.
@@GooseMugs Difference here is one is talking about graphical techniques for a free to play game that people actually like verses one trying to 'sell' a extremely shitty mobile cash grab.
@@GooseMugs that "do you guys not have phones" guy doesn't meet the passion citeria.
people do not understand just how VALUABLE this information is. This guy is giving it for free is amazing. Like he said at the start other game companies try to keep this info a secret. Thank you so much!
I don't get it. it's not true, we got a hundreds of Game dev talks everywhere sharing about game design / game architecture / rendering / network / physics / AI and such as GDC or SIGGRAPH in a more generic field.
There is a lot of talk from all sort of companies from AAA to indie companies.
But it takes time, cause you need to focus on the project first. And you have to prepare a big presentation after the game is released else you broke the Non-Disclosure Agreement.
Right ?! Damn, actually got goosebumps listening
Ok smart aleck
@@darkbibni he’s providing a lovely overview of performant solutions to common problems in realtime graphics, you don’t often get these techniques packaged together in a sampler that provides you with all the terminology you need to *actually* dig deeper if you want to.
0:56 Flowing Materials
3:22 Subsurface Raymarching
6:42 Subsurface Shadows
8:08 Contact Parallax
10:00 Decals/Motion Vectors
15:38 Bent Normals Shadows
17:51 CPU/GPU Particles
20:18 Breaking Waves
24:48 Fields
26:51 Global Illumination
31:01 Hierarchical Radiance Cascades (GI cont.)
39:41 Q&A
Was really cool to watch the GI and Cascade sections and I don't even do gamedev! Love the passion.
Thanks, good sir.
thanks
This was my favorite talk during all of exilecon! And i'll watch it again!
That man is happier about lighting rendering then I am anything.
Since the talk I have a published a paper on Radiance Cascades. Unfortunately YT does not allow posting links in comments or even mentioning your own videos by name, so.. I guess I can only tell you that there's an announcement on my channel with a link to it?
If you are the presenter, thank you for this mazing talk. I still have troubles understanding how increasing the amount of light sources (thousands of fireballs) doesn't end up being O(n*n) or maybe O(n logn) but you end up ... O(1) ?? I will need to rewatch it and try to grok it. What number os that constant-limit based on? pixels on the screen? cubes of space?
@@olivierdulac basically it calculates lighting from every pixel of the screen on every other pixel of the screen. Fireballs obviously still have rasterization cost, but the cost of calculating indirect lighting of the scene is fixed, because the total number of pixels does not change.
This guy should get so much more credit than people give him 😲
Agreed. I think most people just kind of take this kind of presentation as something to skip over but you can tell he absolutely loves and knows what he is doing and it's wonderful to see.
this guy helps me get more frames on my shitty PC. bless you my friend
Dang! Barely 8 minutes in and already i feel like I am taking a course in CG. Super interesting and this is probably my favourite of the series of Exilecon vids, the same as the previous one.
Edit: Man, it's mesmerising I finished the whole thing without realising. Amazing stuff, Mr Sannikov!
Thanks!
As someone learning how to program shaders for my own development, these talks are absolutely gold. Extremely interesting and I love the perspective that GGG introduces in the space.
This guy is amazing
This is the gigachad talk...LOOOVE it
Alexander's lightning rendering technique is revolutionary. Opened my eyes to a lot of things, using a starting energy to render the light and it using half the energy for the next one is crazy. Even though i dont understand rendering by a bit, i can feel the magic behind this technique. Hope to see him more in the future such an enthusiastic guy, never lose your excitement and curiosity man
It's extremely impressive. Lightning is one of the biggest costs in a video game outside of poly count, so being able to manage that cost is extremely important in any game these days. The technique expressed here (Hierarchical Radiance Cascades) is a fantastic solution.
Most Gigachad Talk thanks
"i hope you found it interesting or at least entertaining" definitely both! i could listen to this guy all day - his passion for his craft definitely shines through.
These are the people I think about when I hear friends complain about the game. So much passion, work and, creativity go into what yall do and it really shows. Thank you for making such a beautiful game for us to spend countless hours on!
Thanks Alexander, amazing talk! Sharing all this hidden knowledge about graphics design is really admirable.
That approach for Global Illumination is fantastic.
This was cool!
I'm not a graphics guy, but just the idea of this thing getting exponentially cheaper the better it gets is just mind blowing :D
Absolutely fascinating
Thank you for sharing these techniques with us!
Саня, ты лучший!
This video and lessons was incredible! I feel the passion and it inspired me. POE it is a great idea to do presentations like this! The speaker is awesome.
Making GLSL shaders for Minecraft got me into programming and this has been an amazing presentation. I really enjoyed watching it, thank you Alexander, keep up your magnificent work!!
Great presentation!
Spasibo!
This so amazing, tyvm!!
This was so cool to watch, and very well presented. Thanks!
This was amazing!
You can tell he really enjoys his work. Makes his presentation very digestible. Nice work!
This is amazing! Way too smart for my smooth brain, but I absolutely love seeing a breakdown of behind the scenes with products. (Bloopers/outtakes from television series, and then talks like this one for video games) Seriously amazing stuff, so cool to get a glimpse at the thought process of the developers!
With all these segments coming out from ExileCon i feel like i'm taking a whole education in Path of Exile. And I love it ... Amazing work from everyone involved!
Alexander! lets GO!
no, let's GI
That was incredible!
Amazing, huge thanks!
Watched this on the livestream, really cool to learn about things like this
I remember how much this talk blew my freaking mind when watching ExileCon online. I hated the fact that I had to wait until the following day just to watch it again. (then sat down two other people to watch it and blow THEIR minds).
Alexander - what you created is utterly amazing, but more so than that is the fact that you could explain it in such a way that my non-designer brain could not only wrap itself around the concept, but realise the sheer genius of it all.
POE is so much more than a game for me now that I've gotten these insights. THANK YOU!!
Amazing. Thanks you!
Great great work and one of the best marketing advert... great work Alexander Sannikov
very nice video. It was presented in very clear, understandable and entertaining way :)
Ohh wow, just discovered this video. this talk is pure gold. So many extremely useful approaches to apply. Some caught me by surprise as they somewhat flip the default way on its head but hey if it works. As a technical artist I can relate to not playing games like a normal human though :P
It's a bit sad so few people are in the audience but I hope this gets more recognition online.
What an awesome lecture. I would love to buy this guy a beer!!
Great video! Very intresting! Really amazing to understand how it actually works!
This might be my favourite talk of the con.
Great rendering techniques ❤
TAA is a terrible blurry mess, thank goodness it won't force it on us
This is absolutely fascinating!
Fuckyes, it's The Guy!
very fascinating talk!
this is no mere mortal; no matter how much GGG are paying him they're probably underpaying
Alexander's GI technique is incredible. I would love to see John Carmack's reaction to this segment in particular. Path of Exile 2 is shaping up to be absolutely amazing!
Math is mesmerizing. Thanks for inspiration.
i'm not even a game developer and i don't even play Path of Exile, but i enjoyed this presentation anyway. so informative!
10:48 yeah for some reason that is one of the things that bothers me the most in games, nice to see all these explained so passionately
This man def knows what hes doing and its sweet how passionate he is about sharing the information.
13:05 in digital music production theres a similar tech when chopping audio samples, here its called "crossfading", basically a transition between two audio clips that makes it seem smooth by fading in the latter sample and fading out the former audio sample
That's a very good idea of video. It's both informative and marketing
This deserves a much larger audience! Wow
Incredible work
This is so interesting. Despite that I probably will never work on graphic effects or their technical side. But I am very interested in physics and math and I'm tinkering with the Godot engine, there's CPU/GPU particles as well. Never knew that there was a channel on this. What a great guy!
I was really exicited watching this. as a 3D and graphic artist myself I can say that this guy and all other artists that works behind it deserves more credit. but one thing that I know of and I know that PoE doesn't need that type of effect, but I think the hardest thing to achieve (and not to fake it) would be caustics effect - effect of light rays passing through refracted and distorted surface then bouncing on other surface. it's kinda easy to fake it with prebaked or overlayed fake textures but to achieve real effect is so hard to calculate in computer graphics and it's heavy + time consuming!
once more, awesome presentation, more people should watch it so they can appreciate more people behind the scene!
Thank you for sharing so much clever things to bang my head against
This was super insightful and Alexander looks like a really cool and passionate guy. Makes me appreciate the game even more.
This guy is fuckign awesome ! Mind-blowing work !!
all 9 people in the crowd are in on some great shit
Unfortunately there are very few people in the hall, I would give so much to be there and watch it live
i have no idea what he talks about - but this guy seems like the one guy you can´t just pay a lot of money and get him. hes like 1 in a million and GGG seems to have a few of those guys working on POE2. that will be the best arpg period. definetly!
The GOD Alexander Sannikov
in times of game companies falling to greed and mediocracy it's just comforting to know that there are people like Alexander out there spreading the passion for their craft. Just inspiring...
the global illumination part was cool
Man at this rate this guy in 10 years will be legendary in his field, if he isn't already. The guy just think at night how he can do better on something they already were first to do the previous year. And just wanna F__ing improve it anyway. Just amazed. I might have understood only half of the presentation, but I did listen to all of it that's for sure.
GG
Absolute gigachad
Game of the decade!
meanwhile d4 devs: lets load the contents of the chest of all players each time you access it...all dev teams from blizz should look at this seminar (cuz it is basically a seminar at this point)
Universities: Come pay us exorbitant fees to learn how to be a game designer.
This guy: Hold my granite flask.
This guy is a hero
This was amazing. I recently got into Godot - custom game engines are another beast. Simulating a world is at the pinnacle of complexity, let alone while also being performance-minded.
it is so sad how there were so few people
i wish i was there
this was amazing. so glad they let this guy rip
nice
Development of the game engine is the base for the future and the sucess of a come to be a great company, many of the actual AAA devs have developed their own, some of them just stalemate the engine development, wich is a death sentence. POE2 with this engine and this devs will rule the ARPG market very soon. Congrats for the great work and transparency. I can't wait to play POE2.
The global Illumination dropped my jaw so hard. Im dot a designer or programmer and even I can see how incredible this technology is.
This is what the gaming scene has needed, people that are just passionate about their craft.
Somewhere gaming has came from how much money it can make not the craft behind the game.
I'm really interested in Bent Normals technique. Is there any chance to get a demo on ShaderToy showing it? Awesome talk BTW!
P.s: I'm only not so sure about that the speaker broke the laws of physics by being able cast indefinite amount of rays :D Sounds like some sort of miscalculation TBH
I have since the talk published a paper on it. Lots of people in the field have read it since then, and a bunch of them have already independently replicated my results by implementing the algorithm themselves.
I think the big O() is just wrong.
He had just computed it "backwards", because the "n", the probe grid structure and render resolution, was already chosen to fixed value...
It is like if you take binary search on 32 bit sytem. You have only 32 bit numbers for array indexing so O(log n) can be at worst case O(log 2^32) which is O(32) which is O(1) so we can conclude that binary search is constant time algorithm in practice....
I would say that the GI algorithm still grows O(n^2) with render resolution which grows at exactly same O(m*n) aka O(n^2) rate. Which is nice because 2*O(n^2) is still O(n^2) so the rendering complexity increase is multiplication by a constant which is all that really matters..
(and yes I was blown away too these presentations are cool)
@@ladislavseps4801 big O notation is an asymptotic behaviour in relation to some parameter at infinity. the paper discusses the way raymarching cost scales as a function of the total number of cascades, and not the screen resolution.
in other words, O(1) absolutely does not mean "1", it means "asymptotic cost does not depend on this parameter".
and just to clarify, the number of rays does absolutely depend on the screen resolution in the screenspace version, and grows as O(w^2) as a function of viewport width. note that this O(w^2) includes "each pixel lighting each pixel" behaviour that normally takes O(w^4) rays to calculate naively (O(w*w) pixels affecting O(w*w) other pixels). I just assume O(w^2) as a baseline that I compare against, assuming this cost is unavoidable in any image-space algorithm. in other words you can think of it as per-pixel cost.
This man is a walking, talking legend.
Wow great Dude
Thanks GGG, you are the best gaming company in the world
*Passion* = Poe 2 devteam
pretty neat
Brain = 🤯
What a time to be alive!
Hold on to ur paper
Dude just looked at raytracing and said 'hold my beer'
this guy literally keeps GGG light bulb on
between this and last years rendering talk I think Exilecon is publishing more interesting and useful rendering talks than GDC.
Tom Cruise can really do everything.
Yeah
idk wtf I'm watching but I cant stop watching. This company is badass.
I wonder how different the global illumintation algorithm differs from lumen by unreal engine 5 - they also found a way with fixed cost to illuminate trillion geometry information - I am so hyped over poe2 please take your time with it :)
I think lumen is way different because it needs to use light from outside the screen while poe don't, but maybe they have figured out a similar tech
@@xxseesxx9234 Alexanders mentioned that his algorithm can support world space AO and he showed an example of it.
At 37:24 he also mentions this works in world space for lights outside of the screen@@xxseesxx9234
@@xxseesxx9234 i believe he said in the talk, poe uses screenspace but he made a demo that is world space so it should be roughly the same there unless im missing something
@@emmas1366since then I wrote a paper with detailed analysis, and also a slightly different approach that captures world space radiance (including offscreen light sources and occluders) in screenspace probes.
Саня - красава!
That "audience" doesn't deserve this presentation or his time.
amazing tech, I want to reach your level.
So is the new GI technique already used in PoE1?
have nothing but total confidence this will be the greatest action RPG ever made, thank you to the devs for sharing all this insight
45:04 Sure... you can 'talk' about techniques to others, but implementing them is a completely different story!
Hope they fix the SFX impacting on performance.