I would love to see a head to head with those rubs with the technique of each restaurant. I wonder if Black’s won because that’s the best rub for their particular method? Maybe Goldee’s would place higher on an unwrapped brisket cook. Maybe Franklin’s would place higher if it wasn’t a two part cook?
The Black's 1932 rub is very salt forward, maybe even too salty for anything other than a large fatty brisket. My guess is that 60% of your testing panel preferred the Black's rub, prepped and cooked the Black's method (12-24 hour dry brine), because of the additional saltiness and the time to allow the salt to penetrate the meat. I also have the Goldie's and Franklin rubs and they are not nearly that salty (in my experience). That still supports your experiment, but perhaps the salt (table or otherwise) played a large role. The Franklin and Goldie's rub all work well on a variety of meats, but I have not yet found another application for the Black's.
I’ve been doing long hot holds for a couple years, long story how I fell onto doing that. Ever since every brisket has been better and not one has been good, they all are amazing. Was just a fluke I stumbled onto that process, but sure glad I did. My brisket game is super strong 💪😋. It’s worth the time and effort. I’d never go back to my old way, I’ve been at this for years. Enjoy
Well thanks for doing this test with so many tastes as it comes down to what people like. Looking forward to your future videos on how to make you own rubs!
How dare you feed cows to the children? LOL This will turn heads, as Black's left Franklin's and Goldee's in the dust. The group taste test is awesome. Great work.
Interesting video! I noticed you put the blacks on the top shelf of the kamado vs Goldees and Franklins on the bottom. I'm not exactly sold on the cooking to 160, refrigerate, reheat and hold. When you squeezed it while you were slicing, I didn't think it was as moist as other briskets that you've done. I'm wondering if juiceness had a part to play in the scores? Side note, your link to the meater wireless probes doesn't work
EXCELLENT! next brisket will be done like this. 17 hour hold may be difficult to accomplish and monitor if done on the 3rd day. That means I'll have to put it on at midnight if dinner is served at 5 p.m. (?)
I've heard about the Black's style of cooking brisket and am going to try it with the long hold in my KJC, and with my Flame Boss 500 hooked up. As I've said before about the FB 500, it is an out standing product and works as advertised.
Cut a brisket in half (longways) and dry brine one half overnight in the rub. Then smoke both and see how they compare side-by-side, dry brine overnight vs not.
FYI the Franklin bbq rub defiantly has salt BBQ Spice Rub: Salt, Garlic, Onion, Sugar, Paprika, Spices, Shiitake Mushroom Powder and Tomato Powder [Tomato and Silicon Dioxide (Free Flow Agent)].
Hey James! Thanks for another fantastic video. I really appreciate all the knowledge you share here. Question: Approximately how long does the second day cook (on the Joe) take to get up to temp? Thanks!
Interesting, i must try Blacks rub. Im looking forward to seeing the video with all the fans and against something like the Konnected Joe. As a new KJ clsssic III owner, I still find it difficult to hold the temperatures over long cooks.
Another great video! Thank you. I am having trouble getting my brain to understand one of the concepts. How is it that you pull a brisket at 190° and wrap it and put in a warmer at 160°, and it continues to cook over 200°?
Hi James. Great video--thank you for sharing. Just reviewing the steps here and had the following question. Is the long hold directly after it reaches 190 on day 2? And what is the marker for pulling it in the 11-17 hour window?
Great video as usual. My only question was about how long did it take to get to 190 after the overnight refrigeration? I am trying to work out the timing on a hot hold. Thanks
Have you considered making the tallow in an oven or anything that can hold 225F steady? No water is needed and I use a dutch oven for about 4-6hrs, there little smell using the dutch with a lid and results are more clear/pure
So glad you finally got a Fireboard! I would be very interested to see that as another data point in your cooks going forward. For instance, when I am shooting for 275 to smoke something, am I shooting for 275 grate level or 275 on the dome? Because in my experience there's about a 50 degree difference between the two.
Seems like the first test would be to try your rubs with table salt instead of kosher. I can't believe I just typed that sentence, but Black's won by a large margin and that seems to be the biggest difference that you mentioned.
i think the Lawry's gets us close... i am interested in the red pepper flakes the blacks as i don't add spice to mine and the acid in the citrus used in the franklins
@@SmokingDadBBQ You might think about Tajin. It's a Mexican produced spice with lime. The lime comes through nicely. I've been using it in my rubs for few years and I love it. I use the Classic (mild) in place of paprika and the habanero for a little punch.
Hey Smokin Dad BBQ, In order to get a fair comparison I suggest you cook the briskets the exact same way Goldees, Franklins, and Blacks BBQ does. This was more of a smoking dad bbq brisket cook style with different rubs on it. Their is a valid reason why Texas has a top 50 and Goldees is #1. Goldees is cooked all the way through at 203 F degrees and then held at 140 degrees F in beef tallow and foil for 8 hours. Franklins & Blacks is wrapped and sprayed with apple cider vinegar in unwaxed butcher paper at 175F until they reach 203 F and then rested in the warmer around 140F. I suggest to go to the bbq joints in Texas and work there for a night to see how they cook there briskets and then give a fair comparison by trying to mimic the cooks. These are all smoked on offsets with post oak.
Ok James, we need you to test a long hold in the 160° range to see if it works. This is probably a much more achievable temp for the average backyard warrior.
I've tried so many rubs, store bought homemade. In my opinion, I've learned over the years of smoking that nothing gets the flavor, and having juicy meat is a basic salt and pepper and from time to time adding garlic powder. I never understood what the point of spending all that time to smoke something and smothering it with all these spices? You lose all the flavor of the meat with a bunch of spices and / or sauces. No point in eating meat if you can even taste it. Everyone has they're opinions and I believe salt and pepper are best
What do you think about doing Fat Cap Down on the double indirect and then using the foil boat at around 160-170 to capture the rendering fats? I want a more “crispy” bark
What an awesome video!! When I tried putting the wood on top, I got a lot of thick smoke. I left the vent open, is that okay? I’m hoping you have better luck using the controllers to maintain low resting temp then I have haha!
@@wesleydrew9242 Hey Wesley! Thanks for asking! Got it hot holding in the oven because I couldn’t figure out how to do it on the Joe haha! Slicing into it in 6.5 hours! The wait is a struggle lol 😂
So first smoke is around 225F until 160F? Then next day unwrap cold briskets from fridge and smoked unwrapped at 250F until 190F? No water in the drip tray? Can the long hot hold be done in the oven? Thanks.
Have you moved away from using Jealous Devil? I remember a while back you said you liked that one better, but haven't seen why you switched back to Fogo (might have missed it).
I still have Jd and Kj in the garage .. those two spark less which I like. But I did a similar test as this but with charcoal and more people prefer Fogo my wife included
@@SmokingDadBBQ thanks for the reply! I’ve used JD because of you so I might try Fogo next time. Especially if you wife chose it instead. 😀. Also, I’ve used your run recipe and steps for making my brisket and everyone loves it. Keep up the wonderful work!
I would love to see a head to head with those rubs with the technique of each restaurant. I wonder if Black’s won because that’s the best rub for their particular method? Maybe Goldee’s would place higher on an unwrapped brisket cook. Maybe Franklin’s would place higher if it wasn’t a two part cook?
As a Competition BBQ competitor I can add John Henry's Texas brisket rub and Smokin Gun's Hot have served me well......
The Black's 1932 rub is very salt forward, maybe even too salty for anything other than a large fatty brisket. My guess is that 60% of your testing panel preferred the Black's rub, prepped and cooked the Black's method (12-24 hour dry brine), because of the additional saltiness and the time to allow the salt to penetrate the meat. I also have the Goldie's and Franklin rubs and they are not nearly that salty (in my experience). That still supports your experiment, but perhaps the salt (table or otherwise) played a large role. The Franklin and Goldie's rub all work well on a variety of meats, but I have not yet found another application for the Black's.
Came to say this.
Great video James! Put some MSG in your rub that's the secret lol!
i still have to try the two bottles of golden mountain sauce i bought from your video a few weeks back lol
Love having a fan temp controller. Makes life so much easier.
Thank you for experimenting with not only theses runs but in so many different aspects of smoking!
thanks!
Thanks James! Always great content ❤Every barbecue is better thanks to you! I have learned more from your channel than ANYWHERE ELSE!
wow, thanks!
I loved the throwing coin analogy. It's nice to have previous video you can reuse to illustrate a point. Great comparison!
thanks!
I’ve been doing long hot holds for a couple years, long story how I fell onto doing that. Ever since every brisket has been better and not one has been good, they all are amazing. Was just a fluke I stumbled onto that process, but sure glad I did. My brisket game is super strong 💪😋.
It’s worth the time and effort. I’d never go back to my old way, I’ve been at this for years.
Enjoy
Goldees rub sells for less than $9 at Walmart and its the same size as the one in this video. Great job!
Thanks for the info!
Well thanks for doing this test with so many tastes as it comes down to what people like. Looking forward to your future videos on how to make you own rubs!
How dare you feed cows to the children? LOL This will turn heads, as Black's left Franklin's and Goldee's in the dust.
The group taste test is awesome. Great work.
thanks!
Interesting video! I noticed you put the blacks on the top shelf of the kamado vs Goldees and Franklins on the bottom. I'm not exactly sold on the cooking to 160, refrigerate, reheat and hold. When you squeezed it while you were slicing, I didn't think it was as moist as other briskets that you've done. I'm wondering if juiceness had a part to play in the scores? Side note, your link to the meater wireless probes doesn't work
Interesting, looks like I'll have to try the Blacks rub now. Thanks for spending my money lol! 🍻
lol
Just ordered some blacks 1932 and Terry Blacks pork and beef rubs to try.
I based my updated rub recipe heavily on the blacks based on this. Most recent ratios here - www.smokingdadbbq.com/blog-posts/make-your-own-rub
EXCELLENT! next brisket will be done like this. 17 hour hold may be difficult to accomplish and monitor if done on the 3rd day. That means I'll have to put it on at midnight if dinner is served at 5 p.m. (?)
I've heard about the Black's style of cooking brisket and am going to try it with the long hold in my KJC, and with my Flame Boss 500 hooked up.
As I've said before about the FB 500, it is an out standing product and works as advertised.
My biggest complaint is trying to get down to resting temperature with the FB. I tried twice, but my fire kept dying. It keeps over shooting.
@samacc2536 I think if you can keep the temp in 160° range it should be ok.
Not sure but it's below cooking temps.
@@briandaffern5108 lowest I’ve been successful so far is 170’s. I’m trying as we speak again haha
@@samacc2536 How did your next try go?
@@briandaffern5108 it wasn’t successful unfortunately lol. But I will try again next time haha!
Cut a brisket in half (longways) and dry brine one half overnight in the rub. Then smoke both and see how they compare side-by-side, dry brine overnight vs not.
FYI the Franklin bbq rub defiantly has salt
BBQ Spice Rub: Salt, Garlic, Onion, Sugar, Paprika, Spices, Shiitake Mushroom Powder and Tomato Powder [Tomato and Silicon Dioxide (Free Flow Agent)].
Hi James, thanks again for another great video. Looking for your recommendation for a temp gun? Don’t see it in your video notes :D
Not sure if you can get this. But Himalayan Pink salt works well in my cooks.
The only rub I don't have is Blacks so omw now to buy some!
Hey James! Thanks for another fantastic video. I really appreciate all the knowledge you share here.
Question: Approximately how long does the second day cook (on the Joe) take to get up to temp? Thanks!
Interesting, i must try Blacks rub. Im looking forward to seeing the video with all the fans and against something like the Konnected Joe. As a new KJ clsssic III owner, I still find it difficult to hold the temperatures over long cooks.
Another great video! Thank you. I am having trouble getting my brain to understand one of the concepts. How is it that you pull a brisket at 190° and wrap it and put in a warmer at 160°, and it continues to cook over 200°?
That was the craziest cook method ever. Love it.
thanks!
Hi James. Great video--thank you for sharing. Just reviewing the steps here and had the following question. Is the long hold directly after it reaches 190 on day 2? And what is the marker for pulling it in the 11-17 hour window?
Great video as usual. My only question was about how long did it take to get to 190 after the overnight refrigeration? I am trying to work out the timing on a hot hold. Thanks
Have you considered making the tallow in an oven or anything that can hold 225F steady? No water is needed and I use a dutch oven for about 4-6hrs, there little smell using the dutch with a lid and results are more clear/pure
So glad you finally got a Fireboard! I would be very interested to see that as another data point in your cooks going forward. For instance, when I am shooting for 275 to smoke something, am I shooting for 275 grate level or 275 on the dome? Because in my experience there's about a 50 degree difference between the two.
I stick to dome temp, although I find the Fireboard grate temp does tend to align over time on longer cooks
@@michaelsnodden5084 I tend to stick to the Fireboard temp as I can monitor it, and if anything cooks seem to take longer than I expect them to.
Why not use a cooler box to rest the brisket in?
Seems like the first test would be to try your rubs with table salt instead of kosher. I can't believe I just typed that sentence, but Black's won by a large margin and that seems to be the biggest difference that you mentioned.
i think the Lawry's gets us close... i am interested in the red pepper flakes the blacks as i don't add spice to mine and the acid in the citrus used in the franklins
@@SmokingDadBBQ You might think about Tajin. It's a Mexican produced spice with lime. The lime comes through nicely. I've been using it in my rubs for few years and I love it. I use the Classic (mild) in place of paprika and the habanero for a little punch.
Hey Smokin Dad BBQ,
In order to get a fair comparison I suggest you cook the briskets the exact same way Goldees, Franklins, and Blacks BBQ does. This was more of a smoking dad bbq brisket cook style with different rubs on it. Their is a valid reason why Texas has a top 50 and Goldees is #1.
Goldees is cooked all the way through at 203 F degrees and then held at 140 degrees F in beef tallow and foil for 8 hours.
Franklins & Blacks is wrapped and sprayed with apple cider vinegar in unwaxed butcher paper at 175F until they reach 203 F and then rested in the warmer around 140F.
I suggest to go to the bbq joints in Texas and work there for a night to see how they cook there briskets and then give a fair comparison by trying to mimic the cooks. These are all smoked on offsets with post oak.
Ok James, we need you to test a long hold in the 160° range to see if it works.
This is probably a much more achievable temp for the average backyard warrior.
Except in the last video he said his oven doesn't won't set that far down and that the family would raise holy hell if he did it again.
@@dantea1474 Needs to try on the Kamdo.
I've tried so many rubs, store bought homemade. In my opinion, I've learned over the years of smoking that nothing gets the flavor, and having juicy meat is a basic salt and pepper and from time to time adding garlic powder. I never understood what the point of spending all that time to smoke something and smothering it with all these spices? You lose all the flavor of the meat with a bunch of spices and / or sauces. No point in eating meat if you can even taste it. Everyone has they're opinions and I believe salt and pepper are best
What do you think about doing Fat Cap Down on the double indirect and then using the foil boat at around 160-170 to capture the rendering fats? I want a more “crispy” bark
What an awesome video!! When I tried putting the wood on top, I got a lot of thick smoke. I left the vent open, is that okay? I’m hoping you have better luck using the controllers to maintain low resting temp then I have haha!
How did that wagyu turn out, Samer?
@@wesleydrew9242 Hey Wesley! Thanks for asking! Got it hot holding in the oven because I couldn’t figure out how to do it on the Joe haha! Slicing into it in 6.5 hours! The wait is a struggle lol 😂
@@wesleydrew9242 It was the best I and my guests ever had haha! Man I wish we had leftovers lol
@@samacc2536 I hope you got pics to share during the next Zoom call. :)
Congratulations Samer, we were rooting for you
I would’ve liked to see Meat Church!
So first smoke is around 225F until 160F?
Then next day unwrap cold briskets from fridge and smoked unwrapped at 250F until 190F?
No water in the drip tray?
Can the long hot hold be done in the oven?
Thanks.
nice job🥰
thanks!
What size are your drip/water pans from smoke ware for your big joe 3 that you put under the slow roller??
With the franklin bbq spice rub, could you taste the shitake mushroom at all?
Great head to head test James albeit very expensive I'm sure! Interested to see how you apply this to your home made rub. Thanks
thanks, will definitely be considering tweaks to my homemade rub
Have you moved away from using Jealous Devil? I remember a while back you said you liked that one better, but haven't seen why you switched back to Fogo (might have missed it).
I still have Jd and Kj in the garage .. those two spark less which I like. But I did a similar test as this but with charcoal and more people prefer Fogo my wife included
@@SmokingDadBBQ thanks for the reply! I’ve used JD because of you so I might try Fogo next time. Especially if you wife chose it instead. 😀. Also, I’ve used your run recipe and steps for making my brisket and everyone loves it. Keep up the wonderful work!
Does anyone have a link to the Blacks method for cooking brisket? I would love to read more about it but having trouble finding an article about it.
@eatmorevegans shared this great overview - ruclips.net/video/mG79YjLp1Ns/видео.html
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thank you!
Do you have a sign-up list to be on the taste-test panel? 😂
are you close? going to do an open house maybe this summer and have some fans try my food and judge it
@@SmokingDadBBQ Shucks... I live near San Francisco.
@@SmokingDadBBQ Need to talk to Elon about a quick trip James.
Next up... Month long brisket cook... 😂😅🤣
lol
I see 4 rubs. Not 3
Franklins splits the salt and pepper into one bottle and their seasoning into a second
no ikamand?
I have not heard great things about the I-Kamand.
She hid the cow how cute!
lol
No Meat Church ?
I love your videos...but they are often very long. Remember that the average male attention span is as long as it takes to read the sports page😊
I almost stopped reading but then I realized that only reinforces your point so I powered through 😂