funfact: the reasons gas station registers have the sonic ring sound because SEGA had sold some aspects of their IP to Sammy Holdings, who make ‘Pachinko’ machines in Japan. In turn, Sammy have been licensing out these to the Chinese manufacturers who make these registers.
I’m happy to see the theorists delving back into science-based theories - when I was younger my favorite episodes were the lore theories, but as the brand expanded I felt that the science theories got kind of phased out, and all I ever saw were lore theories - but this episode and the last seem like a nice return to form :)
count from the start of the year to today 16 out of the last 50 videos or so that are video game related havnt been some horror game. theres a few in there that seem more RL talking that i didnt count either. these last few weeks have been nice and a return to form and actual theories instead of "hey lets talk about the lore of this random indie horror game"
@@RoundHouseDictator An official comic set in the game's universe actually says it's a city full of water. Tails and Sonic argue about its pronunciation so it's whatever one you prefer. Adding in the original Sonic 3 & Knuckles the word being one Hydrocity is actually a typo because it was supposed to be Hydro City, two words. Mania kept it this way as a homage.
@@tatertots3337 Yeah but why would it be Hydrocity? Yuji Naka didn't go "The water zone? Hmmm... Let's name it Hydrocity" it was always *supposed* to be Hydro City
I have a feeling Matpat excluded the rings properties in the movies (and the huge ones that can teleport you in the games) because their basically a portable, wireless, oddly telepathic teleporting rings. That has near impossible logic as of today.
@@RandomPerson-ti7qxthis guy excludes anything that dosent fit hes theorys he had actuall theorys back when he was doing more math than lore now hes just a glorified story teller in a rocking chair
I’d just like to point out that, even if the size of the rings get smaller, the weight cannot decrease, due to matter not being able to be destroyed. Sonics rings would still weigh the same and have the same amount of metal, they just appear to be smaller.
@@TheB5randon actually. Density of a specific metal is always the same. Mass is what youre thinking of. Mass and density are very different. Also, what ifs such as what youre suggesting dont make sense as there is no proof and are just very improbable. Anyways, all matter has its own specific density, golds is actually 19.3 g/cm^3
What little lore we get for the gold rings throws a big wrench into the theory no matter what kind of metal you want to go with, as rings are the solidified run off energy from the chaos emeralds. So its likely the rings aren't a metal to begin with, they just look like one.
@@arieson7715 The original classic era manuals. A lot of stuff including foreshadowing for Chaos was lost in translation because America and the UK wanted to do their own thing instead.
@@TheSwordsman100 I find it hard to believe a series that can't even keep it straight that Classic Sonic is just a younger Sonic was foreshadowing characters that wouldn't exist until years later in the first 3D game in the manuals of all things.
@@andrewt329 You do realize that the staff overtime changed right? That Sonic has existed over 30 years at this point? Heck one of the reasons the Meta Era (Colors to Forces) is so despised by the Sonic fandom is because it got rid of the series focus on continuity and characterization. And even then the statement isn't true, after the debacle that was Forces they apologized to the fans, fired their former writers and hired Ian Flynn and a lore council. Who then went out to clean up the Meta Era's mess just like he did with Archie. One of the many fixes to the continuity was indeed that Classic was Sonic when he was younger. (If you are interested in the lore shorts they're called Tails Tube)
No matter how much they’re worth, considering it’s been canonically stated in Tails tube (the official sonic the hedgehog RUclips series where they answer lore questions) that Sonic most likely doesn’t own a house since he’s the kind of guy who is too busy adventuring to ever have a personal residence. As such, Sonic either find the grassy field to nap at or he crashes at Tails’s workshop. What does in mind, his expenses would be significantly lower than the average person since he doesn’t have a house payment or electric bills to deal with. And considering the only clothes he wears, are sneakers, socks, and gloves, I imagine his spendings for closes also relatively low. So really the only thing he has to worry about financially is food. (Which considering chili dogs aren’t that expensive, I think 999 rings every zone or two should more than cover it.)
Ok, but you can't live off of chili dogs, chili dogs are just his favorite food. If you kept on eating your favorite food you would get sick of it(including your body)
and then you realize that recent SEGA confirmed that the rings aren't even currency in the first place like in the IDW comics (the best source for modern Sonic world information) the characters can just get a chili dog from a stand, no payment required or join a Chao race tournament, no cash price for the winners
I miss these old school Game Theory videos. It goes back to what they were intended to be, teaching math and science by explaining video games. It's how I learned so much about science, and understood how game companies abuse addiction, loot boxes, and pretty colors. It's also how I learned about color theory and my love for understand more about them
Ironically, there is a lore quote (from rogue I think?) That mentions how rings are basically worthless because they are so abundant. Which in turn makes the low conversion cost pretty accurate to the lore.
That's what I was trying to say! Like we are using real world prices based on rarity here, it seems like in the sonic universe you basically have to try avoid running into these things on a daily basis. This shouldn't be a science question, but an economics question of supply and demand.
@@tromb2ch2 Not much of a question, though. That said, being literally invulnerable to any harm by just having a singular coin on you (and some stashed within reach) is incredibly valuable.
@@SangoProductions213 it’s valuable, but their EVEYWHERE. It’s like if you went outside and saw diamonds floating around. They used to be valuable cause they were rare, but now they aren’t. So what do you thinks gonna happen tot eh price?
It's funny how this is all negated by sega's mandate of rings not actually being in lore currency and they only recently allowed money to exist in the sonic world, but they wont allow writers to elaborate on exactly what that is. but matpat doesnt know that
mandates aren't really a thing, it's more like restrictions/boundaries given to external writers like the writers of the boom tv show. writers in sonic team can do pretty much anything they want edit: restrictions that every company puts if they don't want something like the archie comics to happen. shadow can have friends, sonic can cry, he just can't be huddled up in a corner hugging his knees and bawling because that's not sonic, sonic can lose a fight (though he would probably win another later with the same character) other characters can go super, etc
It doesn't necessarily have to be an alloy, it might be gold with a small amount of iron in it. Gold's non-magnetic stuff means that it wouldn't interfere too much with the iron's magnetic properties. (Gold actually repels magnets a little bit, not nearly as strong as iron attracts them.)
For those interested, that image of brown sonic was from the Fleetway Publications "Sonic the Comic", which was a Sega comic produced in the UK, and not under Sega of America's aegis. It was thier attempt of Sonic's "Origin Story", and the gentleman with him is Dr Ovi Kintobor, the Jeckyll to Eggman's Hyde. I always assumed that the Sonic rings acted as a Petrodollar equivalent, in that they're not accually a currency, but a form of energy-matter that functions as a currency.
Man, Can't believe how long I've watching you guys and seeing how your channels have grown, always a pleasure to be apart of this ride. Keep it up guys!
TO MATPAT: note that if you ever dive into red star rings, they look more like plastic than anything else so don’t go thinking that there some sort of smooth ruby
Pretty sure that Sonic Rings are by products of the Chaos Emeralds meaning they’d contain chaos energy and be valued by their usability and rarity. So they might not be any kind of metal just like how the emeralds might not be any kind of gem. And their true value is what you could possibly do with them.
@@stratonikisporcia8630if you mean Archie of Fleetway (i haven't read both) then it's not canon due to being a separate world from Mainline series Though IDW is canon
Energy might be a better measure of value than currency. Before the in-game stores, the rings acted as an energy shield and later used as fuel to power Super Sonic. As long as they were in possession of at least one, Sonic and Co were basically Undefeatable
We actually know how the rings are made as Sonic SatAM showed exactly how they were made using a special device that his dad Sir Charles created that makes the rings using some kind of crystal called a Power Rock while being at the bottom of a lake.
This video also works on the assumption that each ring is a solid metal ring, whereas it'd be worth less if it were any kind of hollow. I'm sure you could calculate how solid the rings are based off of how fast they fall vs the gravity of the game you're using them in
@@TheSucram729 Au contraire mon cheri, air weighs a certain amount and the metal also weighs a certain amount, as long as the total weight is less than the density of water, it will sink :)
Matpat I don’t think roblox was trying to make these rings look cheap compared to real money. Depending on the game in roblox, their value in game can be way higher or lower. For example some games in roblox make you spend like 15 robux for 25 gems, while others give you 7000 for the same amount of robux.
So are we treating the whole ring as if it's neodymium or as if it's 18 karats gold with the remaining 6 karats being neodymium? Because then the prices would probably change drastically. I mean, if Gold retains its magnetism till 18 karats and neodymium is super magnetic, then it would stand to reason that the Neo-Gold rings would be fairly magnetic and still worth a pretty decent settlement irl.
12:03 There’s got to be a mistake here. 1kg is roughly 2lbs so it should be less expensive per pound than kilogram. Were the numbers accidentally swapped?
6:55 Shield drawing in rings could have been diamagnetic. Especially since it’s literally brimming with energy. The rings could have been attracted without any ferrous material required.
As fun as this was, I hope MatPat will do more interesting theories with Sonic. This is a franchise that has a world under a constant threat of a machine apocalypse and has the title character slaying gods, eldritch horrors, and pulling off insane feats every other month. Not to mention the colorful cast of characters deserving of more love and the fact that there IS a continuity and clear progression that really isn't confusing or nonsensical if you were to actually pay attention to the games you're playing/watching, cause more often than not MatPat brings up non canon material like Archie, Fleetway, the Movies, spinoffs like Olympic Games and Speed Simulator, or even the shows to find answers to questions that only really apply to the Game/IDW universe. Again, these aren't bad theories by any means but Sonic ones only show up every now and then so I think they could do a lot more with the material presented in the canon with just a little research. (Funniest part about this theory is that collectable rings aren't a physical existence in the current canon, they're just a game mechanic to represent health and sometimes the unknown currency system, which is why you don't see rings in cutscenes or the IDW comics. This also means Super forms aren't actually reliant on rings and run on the unlimited power of the Chaos Emeralds. Big Rings do exist though, they're portals!)
Erm, actually, in Sonic Adventure 2 there are voice lines where Sonic and Shadow say "Are you ok? I'll collect the rings!" and "Shadow! You need to collect rings to stabilize your super form!"
@@PhantomChaos76 Well that's just a teaser trailer to promote the Werehog, at the end of the day promotional material doesn't make your game or your story. You only ever hear rings mentioned during gameplay, not present in the main stories, meaning it's the character really talking to the player about a mechanic in a roundabout way. If in-game dialogue explaining how Super gameplay works was canon then by that logic the characters are aware that they're being controlled by an Xbox controller when one of the Super Hedgehogs in 06 say "press the Y button to switch with me". I'm not just saying these things out of nowhere, look up Bumblekast with English Sonic writer Ian Flynn, there are a few podcast videos where he says that rings are not a physical existence within the canon and only exist for gameplay reasons. He'll also be the one to tell you that those aren't his words, but the higher ups at SEGA telling him that's how it is and that he and every other official Sonic creator needs to work within those kinds of guidelines.
@@BlinkyRen Also, in the game that Ian Flynn wrote, Sonic Frontiers, there is a cutscene in the Final Horizon where sonic loses both super forms and then several rings shoot out of him. A cutscene.
I'm not a math doctor or anything but, what's the value of the rings if you calculate the amount of energy they r able to produce? They sustain super sonic, can apparently be used as building materials (shadow the hedgehog)and a bunch of other stuff
Yes, but it seems complicated to find the exact energy of a ring in joules unless we had a machine we could estimate the energy produced AND rings needed to activate...
@@stratonikisporcia8630take number of rings needed for purpose, use the relative amount of energy it takes to do whatever it is IRL. E.g- if it takes x joules to do x task or build x thing IRL, and it takes this many rings to do that in-game, so that many rings is worth that amount of energy in joules. (Obviously not super transformations. Would have to go back to that after the rest of the math and just do the calculation for how much energy is in 50 rings- since that's the minimum needed to transform)
Say MatPat, I’ve got a request theory about Bugsnax. What on the surface is a cute game about catching animals made from food is actually a dark and twisted web of history surrounding a worship of these creatures spanning eons. I’d love to see your take on this!
I’ve been watching game theory since I was child…being a teen now I love seeing the progression in this show makes me so happy. Matpat has made me laugh and cry. I can’t wait to see what he creates next.
Lol, I'm so glad you talked about the size issue. I was all ready to post "Um... Actually, the visual size of the rings in the games is probably just a gameplay feature for the player's benefit, otherwise Sonic wouldn't be able to carry so many of them..." but you actually covered it. Of course, the real explanation is that they're magic.
12:06 Wait, why is it more expensive per pound if a pound is less than half a kilogram? Shouldn't it be the other way around? If it is $127 per KG, and a pound (LB) is 0.45 KG, then it should be $57.6 per LB.
This is what I came to post seeing if anyone had yet. Same thing I thought how Is is a kilo Worth less than a pound, I feel like someone didn't check the math.🧐
Right, $127/kg * 0.45kg/lb = $57.6/lb * (kg/kg) which is just in units of $/lb. Division here which I think is what he did would give the incorrect result of $127/kg / (0.45 kg/lb) = $127/kg * 2.222222 lb/kg = $270 lb /kg^2. So I'm pretty sure the math is off here. Easy check: Kg value is less than lbs value at 11:25. So at 12:06 the per kg value or kg^-1 value should be greater than per lbs value or lb^-1 value (but he has the value as less again). Unfortunately, in this video the kg value and per kg value are less than the lb value and per lbs value which is an inherit contradiction.
Here's a question I don't got answered: MatPat first calculated for the giant rings, but then states that the rings *shrink* to be a small size when Sonic touches it. Where does that extra mass go? Would the rings just like, condense and still retain some of their much larger value or does it just, poof, ignoring the rules of mass conservation?
9:52 In fact, the rings don't keep Sonic as Super Sonic, at the end of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, we see Sonic descending with the Master Emerald as Super/Hyper Sonic, then he distransforms, and after the credits (which should last for a few 3 minutes, taking into account how long the credits music is), he transforms again and jumps in front of the screen, and he doesn't collect any rings in the credits, so he doesn't need them to transform, he just needs them in the gameplay.
That only ever happened in that game. And was at the very inception of the idea of super saiyan transformations for sonic characters (and no. I wasn't _just_ being funny. The idea and design were partly inspired by DBZ) Every game after and all the comics I can think of have never done that again. Safe to say it was just a fun little "gotcha" moment to jazz up the credits.
@MatPat: Just a heads-up, neodymium is used in the MOTOR of EVs; **NOT** the battery. The “rare-earth” metal that’s used in batteries is cobalt, and that’s being phased out really quickly. Other than that, a fairly entertaining theory.
3:05 Blames America; shows a UK product. Yeah, one of our early drafts said he started off brown and the UK adopted it before we changed drafts but it was still the UK that ran with the idea.
Do the rings shrink from the bigger size to the smaller size when Sonic gets them? If so, what kind of issues would arise from their increased density?
in 11:40 you mention the price of the rings if they were made of gold. The only issue is that you're using 76kg to find that price, which is incorrect since the rings weight 76kg if they were made of neodymium, not gold. The actual weight of the rings if they were made of gold would be about 211 kilograms (multiplying density of gold 19.32g/cm3 by volume of ring), leading to each ring costing about 12,431.11 dollars, using 58,900 dollars per kilo of gold as the conversion, which is the latest one I found.
@@yahyayazgi a gold ring would've weighed 211 kg instead of 76kg(due to differing densities, which I won't explain). Therefore, the cost of a gold ring of the same size would be a bit over 12.4k dollars. That's the tl;dr.
Finally an actual Game Theory! These are my favorite kinds of theories and it feels so refreshing whenever we got something like this instead of another lore theory. Great video loved it ❤
Wouldn’t the weight of the rings increase since a larger mass is being collapsed into a smaller form, thus making the small ones more expensive since price is based on weight? Unless MatPat is now claiming that the rings lose mass when they shrink, thus breaking physics laws since matter can’t be created or destroyed…
It's a question of which size is the original size. Are they naturally big and shrink down to be carried, or are they naturally small and inflate so they can be seen easier to be collected? It's easier to just say what the weight would be if each size were the original (so higher weight for the large size and lower weight for the small size).
I'm not usually one to point out mistakes, but at 12:03, Mat says that a kg of neodymium is around $127, and a couple seconds later, he says that a pound of neodymium is $270. A pound is a bit less than half of a kilogram, meaning that if it is $127/kg of neodymium, then it should be about $57/pound.
Something that’s perfect is that I went to the movies and I saw a advertisement for game theory and a couple minutes later I saw a ad for the FNaF movie
1:31 you know, I decided to check if you were pulling my leg, given I played that game and I didn't remember it being made by the developers of sonic. ... Apparently it is. _The more you know._
this makes me remember of that one scene in sonic for hire when sonic gets paid in rings at one point and he thinks he's rich until he realises the exchange rate is terrible and he barely made any money
Fun fact they have confirmed how much it ring is worth since unleashed in 2008 because in that game you can buy real foods like chili dogs if you’re wondering chili dogs cost 50 rings I don’t know how much a normal chili dog in real life costs, but it probably costs at least three bucks
I think for something the size of a silver dollar that can easily be found anywhere 11$ isn't too bad Pick up 2 rings per hour and you got around minimum wage (technically more than minimum wage but if we take the minimum wage from like 50 years ago when it was actually a reasonable living wage and account for inflation the minimum wage was worth closer to 20 an hour)
Are you SURE these rings are made of Earthly materials? Metal Sonic is made of blue metal, and while alloys CAN be blue like you said, none that I know of have that bright and pure blue color. Also, when Sonic threw his ring at 12:44 the ring grew in size, so either the rings or Sonic have the power to control sizes, and judging by the rings magical properties when used by Super Sonic, I'd say it's the rings growing and shrinking. Neodymium, from what I can tell, can't grow or shrink, though other metals can.
funfact: the reasons gas station registers have the sonic ring sound because SEGA had sold some aspects of their IP to Sammy Holdings, who make ‘Pachinko’ machines in Japan. In turn, Sammy have been licensing out these to the Chinese manufacturers who make these registers.
THANK YOU I'VE BEEN WANTING TO KNOW THIS ANSWER FOR WELL OVER A DECADE
Bro thank you so much for this answer you do not know how many sleepless nights you've saved me form
Sammy don't just own some Sega IP, they own Sega, since 2004. The company which Sega Corporation is a subsidiary of is actually Sega Sammy Holdings.
@@Impossiblah Would explain why gambling and the Sonic franchise are inseparable.
Sammy the sonic fan?
Matpat doesn’t need an Oscar, he needs his sanity
That and an Oscar.
Did someone say Sanic?!
@@Sanic_Hegehogsorry no
Yes, Matpat hasn't had his sanity for so long
Oh that my friend he lost YEARS ago. Marriage and Kids will do that' lol
I’m happy to see the theorists delving back into science-based theories - when I was younger my favorite episodes were the lore theories, but as the brand expanded I felt that the science theories got kind of phased out, and all I ever saw were lore theories - but this episode and the last seem like a nice return to form :)
Completely agree! I like both, but it's also nice to HAVE both
It needs balance, as all things should be
I know that's not the exact quote, but you get the point
@@StarBeam500perfectly balanced
Yeah, lately they've just been doing basically recaps of game's stories
count from the start of the year to today 16 out of the last 50 videos or so that are video game related havnt been some horror game. theres a few in there that seem more RL talking that i didnt count either. these last few weeks have been nice and a return to form and actual theories instead of "hey lets talk about the lore of this random indie horror game"
I’m convinced MatPat will never run out of theories to make
Edit: I wish I were wrong but this is the end of a legendary era
But that's just a theory...
A youtuber theory!
Fr
Fr fr lol
Thanks for watching!
I’m convinced that matpat has an ever expanding, infinite pocket dimension in which he keeps all of his theories
BUT THATS JUST A THEORY, A GAME THEORY THEORY, THANKS FOR WHATCHING
well
This aged badly😭😭😭😭
It’s called RUclips
Did MatPat just pronounce Hydro City as hydrocity? Who is he, Megamind? Actually, that makes a lot of sense...
The level has no hydro homes or hydro shops or hydro offices, it is not a hydro city. It has devices related to hydrology and velocity
@@RoundHouseDictator
An official comic set in the game's universe actually says it's a city full of water.
Tails and Sonic argue about its pronunciation so it's whatever one you prefer.
Adding in the original Sonic 3 & Knuckles the word being one Hydrocity is actually a typo because it was supposed to be Hydro City, two words. Mania kept it this way as a homage.
He said it so casually not knowing what he said, a win for Hydrocity!
It's not "Hydro City". It's written as one word. It's Hydrocity.
@@tatertots3337 Yeah but why would it be Hydrocity? Yuji Naka didn't go "The water zone? Hmmm... Let's name it Hydrocity" it was always *supposed* to be Hydro City
I have a feeling Matpat excluded the rings properties in the movies (and the huge ones that can teleport you in the games) because their basically a portable, wireless, oddly telepathic teleporting rings. That has near impossible logic as of today.
That type of ring exists in Sonic Mania/Speed Simulator minimum. Maybe he thought they were different?
100% he excluded that. Makes sense since he was connecting the currency to irl currency.
and the max in sonic frontires is 999 rings
@@Dislike_Count Oh yeah! thats right ofcourse mobians dont know dollars
@@RandomPerson-ti7qxthis guy excludes anything that dosent fit hes theorys he had actuall theorys back when he was doing more math than lore now hes just a glorified story teller in a rocking chair
I’d just like to point out that, even if the size of the rings get smaller, the weight cannot decrease, due to matter not being able to be destroyed. Sonics rings would still weigh the same and have the same amount of metal, they just appear to be smaller.
Yep
Well ye but less material would probably be used to make the rings if there is a ring making process
Though the weight would be the same it could be that the material is hollow and very thin when large instead of the small version to be denser.
@@TheB5randon actually. Density of a specific metal is always the same. Mass is what youre thinking of. Mass and density are very different. Also, what ifs such as what youre suggesting dont make sense as there is no proof and are just very improbable. Anyways, all matter has its own specific density, golds is actually 19.3 g/cm^3
@@Buerfrumhell The total density would be lower if it's hollow. The density of the metal itself would be the same.
What little lore we get for the gold rings throws a big wrench into the theory no matter what kind of metal you want to go with, as rings are the solidified run off energy from the chaos emeralds. So its likely the rings aren't a metal to begin with, they just look like one.
It would explain how they're used as currency in the black markets since they could possibly be used as a power source for those who need it.
What lore is this from?
@@arieson7715
The original classic era manuals. A lot of stuff including foreshadowing for Chaos was lost in translation because America and the UK wanted to do their own thing instead.
@@TheSwordsman100
I find it hard to believe a series that can't even keep it straight that Classic Sonic is just a younger Sonic was foreshadowing characters that wouldn't exist until years later in the first 3D game in the manuals of all things.
@@andrewt329
You do realize that the staff overtime changed right? That Sonic has existed over 30 years at this point? Heck one of the reasons the Meta Era (Colors to Forces) is so despised by the Sonic fandom is because it got rid of the series focus on continuity and characterization.
And even then the statement isn't true, after the debacle that was Forces they apologized to the fans, fired their former writers and hired Ian Flynn and a lore council. Who then went out to clean up the Meta Era's mess just like he did with Archie. One of the many fixes to the continuity was indeed that Classic was Sonic when he was younger. (If you are interested in the lore shorts they're called Tails Tube)
No matter how much they’re worth, considering it’s been canonically stated in Tails tube (the official sonic the hedgehog RUclips series where they answer lore questions) that Sonic most likely doesn’t own a house since he’s the kind of guy who is too busy adventuring to ever have a personal residence. As such, Sonic either find the grassy field to nap at or he crashes at Tails’s workshop.
What does in mind, his expenses would be significantly lower than the average person since he doesn’t have a house payment or electric bills to deal with. And considering the only clothes he wears, are sneakers, socks, and gloves, I imagine his spendings for closes also relatively low. So really the only thing he has to worry about financially is food. (Which considering chili dogs aren’t that expensive, I think 999 rings every zone or two should more than cover it.)
But they said something about changing his water filter on Twitter
Rings aren't even currency in lore.
Ok, but you can't live off of chili dogs, chili dogs are just his favorite food. If you kept on eating your favorite food you would get sick of it(including your body)
@@3xeplodng_3agle_studios they are, in sonic chronicles sonic and friends buy items with them
if things were realistic, Sonic would probably need to change sneakers like every month due to wear and tear.
This is the type of theory I used to love from back in the day. This feels like a _classic_ theory. Thanks. Love the throwback :')
and then you realize that recent SEGA confirmed that the rings aren't even currency in the first place
like in the IDW comics (the best source for modern Sonic world information)
the characters can just get a chili dog from a stand, no payment required
or join a Chao race tournament, no cash price for the winners
A world with no money, it must be heaven
Didn't know Sonic was a communist, but this oddly makes a lot of sense...
@@matthewperez7473Meanwhile the Chaotix.
@@stratonikisporcia8630not the only way to not use/have need for money... That concept "making sense" is... It's reaching.
If it was recently enough, it may have been said after the epesode was writen, possably even after it was made and finished.
I miss these old school Game Theory videos. It goes back to what they were intended to be, teaching math and science by explaining video games. It's how I learned so much about science, and understood how game companies abuse addiction, loot boxes, and pretty colors. It's also how I learned about color theory and my love for understand more about them
8:50 8-BIT MATPAT IS BACK😮
Ironically, there is a lore quote (from rogue I think?) That mentions how rings are basically worthless because they are so abundant. Which in turn makes the low conversion cost pretty accurate to the lore.
That's what I was trying to say! Like we are using real world prices based on rarity here, it seems like in the sonic universe you basically have to try avoid running into these things on a daily basis. This shouldn't be a science question, but an economics question of supply and demand.
@@tromb2ch2 Not much of a question, though.
That said, being literally invulnerable to any harm by just having a singular coin on you (and some stashed within reach) is incredibly valuable.
@@SangoProductions213 it’s valuable, but their EVEYWHERE. It’s like if you went outside and saw diamonds floating around. They used to be valuable cause they were rare, but now they aren’t. So what do you thinks gonna happen tot eh price?
Finally a real game theory that isn't an ARG or mascot horror... again...
Thank you Matpat.
It deserves a thank you 😂😂😂
Sorry but what is ARG ?
@@Lawheea game that mixes the real world with gameplay/story telling, like Pokémon go
I prefer the arg
@@Lawheean alternate reality with lore to find with clever puzzles
In Sonic Dash there is also an in game shop where you can buy rings from real money. You could also use this game for your calculations.
It's funny how this is all negated by sega's mandate of rings not actually being in lore currency and they only recently allowed money to exist in the sonic world, but they wont allow writers to elaborate on exactly what that is. but matpat doesnt know that
Yeah… mandates go brrrrr. Ian might’ve been joking but he said that rings aren’t even a thing in the lore.
mandates aren't really a thing, it's more like restrictions/boundaries given to external writers like the writers of the boom tv show. writers in sonic team can do pretty much anything they want
edit: restrictions that every company puts if they don't want something like the archie comics to happen. shadow can have friends, sonic can cry, he just can't be huddled up in a corner hugging his knees and bawling because that's not sonic, sonic can lose a fight (though he would probably win another later with the same character) other characters can go super, etc
@@FTN_Ale “Writers in Sonic Team” Sonic Team are the ones who create the mandates.
@@axiom6000No? Sonic team is just a development studio, segas the one in charge
@@axiom6000 most sonic fans think it applies to everything
It doesn't necessarily have to be an alloy, it might be gold with a small amount of iron in it. Gold's non-magnetic stuff means that it wouldn't interfere too much with the iron's magnetic properties. (Gold actually repels magnets a little bit, not nearly as strong as iron attracts them.)
Ahem *sonic 3 eletric shield*
Feels like gold-plating is being overlooked in this whole thing.
Matpat should do a theory on Color or Die Roblox
What should I post?
Does...mixing iron with gold not make it an alloy?
@@HaveYouGotACameraOnYourPhonehe mentioned this in the video...
Honestly the strength to carry the rings jesus, is impressive for the large ones
For those interested, that image of brown sonic was from the Fleetway Publications "Sonic the Comic", which was a Sega comic produced in the UK, and not under Sega of America's aegis. It was thier attempt of Sonic's "Origin Story", and the gentleman with him is Dr Ovi Kintobor, the Jeckyll to Eggman's Hyde.
I always assumed that the Sonic rings acted as a Petrodollar equivalent, in that they're not accually a currency, but a form of energy-matter that functions as a currency.
He is actually right because fleetway used the origin of sonic from the sonic Bible, which was produced by Sega of America.
Yes. That assessment of rings would be the best.
Huh, now *that* I didn't know! Thanks!@@charleswolfe8896
Man, Can't believe how long I've watching you guys and seeing how your channels have grown, always a pleasure to be apart of this ride. Keep it up guys!
It was very fun indeed
TO MATPAT: note that if you ever dive into red star rings, they look more like plastic than anything else so don’t go thinking that there some sort of smooth ruby
Pretty sure that Sonic Rings are by products of the Chaos Emeralds meaning they’d contain chaos energy and be valued by their usability and rarity. So they might not be any kind of metal just like how the emeralds might not be any kind of gem. And their true value is what you could possibly do with them.
It is confirmed in the comics that they are made of "karma"
@@stratonikisporcia8630 If it's the Archie comics, I think those have specifically been decanonized due to a law suit.
@@stratonikisporcia8630if you mean Archie of Fleetway (i haven't read both) then it's not canon due to being a separate world from Mainline series
Though IDW is canon
Energy might be a better measure of value than currency. Before the in-game stores, the rings acted as an energy shield and later used as fuel to power Super Sonic. As long as they were in possession of at least one, Sonic and Co were basically Undefeatable
We actually know how the rings are made as Sonic SatAM showed exactly how they were made using a special device that his dad Sir Charles created that makes the rings using some kind of crystal called a Power Rock while being at the bottom of a lake.
This video also works on the assumption that each ring is a solid metal ring, whereas it'd be worth less if it were any kind of hollow. I'm sure you could calculate how solid the rings are based off of how fast they fall vs the gravity of the game you're using them in
Both in the water and the air, right? Assuming the rings don't leak any air via bubbles when they sink in water.
If it were hollow it wouldn’t sink underwater
@@Chigger Yes, that is correct
@@TheSucram729 Au contraire mon cheri, air weighs a certain amount and the metal also weighs a certain amount, as long as the total weight is less than the density of water, it will sink :)
@@noodsdood6977 Yep. Like how submarines are able to sink and float.
I went through the survey and was super tempted to check off "I stuff kids into animatronic suits." for the memes.
I'll have you know they are, in fact, NOT worthless... they taste amazing with some chili sauce.
add some meat in there and those rings would sell out
Put em in a taco
Now I am not disappointed anymore
Matpat I don’t think roblox was trying to make these rings look cheap compared to real money. Depending on the game in roblox, their value in game can be way higher or lower. For example some games in roblox make you spend like 15 robux for 25 gems, while others give you 7000 for the same amount of robux.
he was joking bro
true facts
um actually bears only eat berries and other small animals
@@Baldi404hey Jamie pull up that video of that bear fighting robux
@@Baldi404 how is this relevant?
Anytime I see a game theory video that isn’t just explaining the story of current mascot horror game, I regain a tiny bit of faith in humanity
Honestly, Dorkly having Eggman call these rings "lead rings i spray painted gold" makes the first calculation seem really fitting
12:09 Matpat forgot
Gold’s price is due to its rarity
And if we see them basicly everywhere that means they arent rare
So are we treating the whole ring as if it's neodymium or as if it's 18 karats gold with the remaining 6 karats being neodymium? Because then the prices would probably change drastically. I mean, if Gold retains its magnetism till 18 karats and neodymium is super magnetic, then it would stand to reason that the Neo-Gold rings would be fairly magnetic and still worth a pretty decent settlement irl.
AAAAAH the science based videos are back! Even MatPat's tone in this video feels like the old days.
Oh I missed these so much!
12:03 There’s got to be a mistake here. 1kg is roughly 2lbs so it should be less expensive per pound than kilogram. Were the numbers accidentally swapped?
Glad I’m not the only who noticed that 💀
Actually, in Sonic Frontiers You can hold up to 999 rings if you maximise the ring count, he can get 10,983$ in total
3:02 this is gonna end up in an out of context video for sure
6:55 Shield drawing in rings could have been diamagnetic. Especially since it’s literally brimming with energy. The rings could have been attracted without any ferrous material required.
This theory feels so classic, and I honestly love that.
As fun as this was, I hope MatPat will do more interesting theories with Sonic. This is a franchise that has a world under a constant threat of a machine apocalypse and has the title character slaying gods, eldritch horrors, and pulling off insane feats every other month. Not to mention the colorful cast of characters deserving of more love and the fact that there IS a continuity and clear progression that really isn't confusing or nonsensical if you were to actually pay attention to the games you're playing/watching, cause more often than not MatPat brings up non canon material like Archie, Fleetway, the Movies, spinoffs like Olympic Games and Speed Simulator, or even the shows to find answers to questions that only really apply to the Game/IDW universe. Again, these aren't bad theories by any means but Sonic ones only show up every now and then so I think they could do a lot more with the material presented in the canon with just a little research.
(Funniest part about this theory is that collectable rings aren't a physical existence in the current canon, they're just a game mechanic to represent health and sometimes the unknown currency system, which is why you don't see rings in cutscenes or the IDW comics. This also means Super forms aren't actually reliant on rings and run on the unlimited power of the Chaos Emeralds. Big Rings do exist though, they're portals!)
I hope this as well
Erm, actually, in Sonic Adventure 2 there are voice lines where Sonic and Shadow say "Are you ok? I'll collect the rings!" and "Shadow! You need to collect rings to stabilize your super form!"
Also, if it was just a game mechanic, why would Sonic be flipping one in the trailer for Sonic Unleashed?
@@PhantomChaos76 Well that's just a teaser trailer to promote the Werehog, at the end of the day promotional material doesn't make your game or your story. You only ever hear rings mentioned during gameplay, not present in the main stories, meaning it's the character really talking to the player about a mechanic in a roundabout way. If in-game dialogue explaining how Super gameplay works was canon then by that logic the characters are aware that they're being controlled by an Xbox controller when one of the Super Hedgehogs in 06 say "press the Y button to switch with me". I'm not just saying these things out of nowhere, look up Bumblekast with English Sonic writer Ian Flynn, there are a few podcast videos where he says that rings are not a physical existence within the canon and only exist for gameplay reasons. He'll also be the one to tell you that those aren't his words, but the higher ups at SEGA telling him that's how it is and that he and every other official Sonic creator needs to work within those kinds of guidelines.
@@BlinkyRen Also, in the game that Ian Flynn wrote, Sonic Frontiers, there is a cutscene in the Final Horizon where sonic loses both super forms and then several rings shoot out of him. A cutscene.
I'm not a math doctor or anything but, what's the value of the rings if you calculate the amount of energy they r able to produce? They sustain super sonic, can apparently be used as building materials (shadow the hedgehog)and a bunch of other stuff
Yes, but it seems complicated to find the exact energy of a ring in joules unless we had a machine we could estimate the energy produced AND rings needed to activate...
@@stratonikisporcia8630take number of rings needed for purpose, use the relative amount of energy it takes to do whatever it is IRL. E.g- if it takes x joules to do x task or build x thing IRL, and it takes this many rings to do that in-game, so that many rings is worth that amount of energy in joules.
(Obviously not super transformations. Would have to go back to that after the rest of the math and just do the calculation for how much energy is in 50 rings- since that's the minimum needed to transform)
@@3xeplodng_3agle_studios The transformation also needs emerald energy
4:54 You guys are out there paying a whole DOLLAR for a single APPLE?! For like $2 you can buy a whole BAG of apples.
2:43 So basically, one Ring is worth the same as an Argentinian Peso.
Say MatPat, I’ve got a request theory about Bugsnax.
What on the surface is a cute game about catching animals made from food is actually a dark and twisted web of history surrounding a worship of these creatures spanning eons.
I’d love to see your take on this!
Ahh, a fellow person of culture ❤
I'm honestly surprised he hasn't covered this game, wasn't there a GtLive on it at some point? (can't remember so I might be mixing streamers.)
Mhm
I loved the game to death after I first beat it, then quickly forgot about its existence. I’m so glad I remembered it again!
@@yoshicola relatable…
I love that we're coming back to OG math theories and pixel measurements! Who else has flashbacks to the similar Mario episode 😂
I’ve been watching game theory since I was child…being a teen now I love seeing the progression in this show makes me so happy. Matpat has made me laugh and cry. I can’t wait to see what he creates next.
10:05 WHAT.. THEYRE MADE OF!!! 🎸🎶🎶🎸
Simple curiosity tries to take a bite of me.
Lol, I'm so glad you talked about the size issue. I was all ready to post "Um... Actually, the visual size of the rings in the games is probably just a gameplay feature for the player's benefit, otherwise Sonic wouldn't be able to carry so many of them..." but you actually covered it.
Of course, the real explanation is that they're magic.
I did the survey, and I am so amped to see where this goes! Congratulations on your social growth, Team Theorists!
Sonic Generations has a ring shop that allows you to buy stuff like extra lives and shields for rings.
6:21
thats when i stopped watching and took both of the surveys
1:50 And SEGA's sister company is a major slot machine producer (and SEGA originally produced these themselves).
12:06 Wait, why is it more expensive per pound if a pound is less than half a kilogram? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
If it is $127 per KG, and a pound (LB) is 0.45 KG, then it should be $57.6 per LB.
American math
@@tilberin oh yeah,the most confusing system
This is what I came to post seeing if anyone had yet. Same thing I thought how Is is a kilo Worth less than a pound, I feel like someone didn't check the math.🧐
Right, $127/kg * 0.45kg/lb = $57.6/lb * (kg/kg) which is just in units of $/lb. Division here which I think is what he did would give the incorrect result of $127/kg / (0.45 kg/lb) = $127/kg * 2.222222 lb/kg = $270 lb /kg^2. So I'm pretty sure the math is off here.
Easy check: Kg value is less than lbs value at 11:25. So at 12:06 the per kg value or kg^-1 value should be greater than per lbs value or lb^-1 value (but he has the value as less again). Unfortunately, in this video the kg value and per kg value are less than the lb value and per lbs value which is an inherit contradiction.
Matt pat please fix
Here's a question I don't got answered: MatPat first calculated for the giant rings, but then states that the rings *shrink* to be a small size when Sonic touches it. Where does that extra mass go? Would the rings just like, condense and still retain some of their much larger value or does it just, poof, ignoring the rules of mass conservation?
11:15 I knew it! The ring is evil!
The editing is on point with this episode 👀
Such smooth color transitions!
In the end, Sonic still makes more money from collecting a few rings than our average day job.
2:56 The ring price is not canon, as the rings are priced that way due to being extremely abundant in the game.
9:52 In fact, the rings don't keep Sonic as Super Sonic, at the end of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, we see Sonic descending with the Master Emerald as Super/Hyper Sonic, then he distransforms, and after the credits (which should last for a few 3 minutes, taking into account how long the credits music is), he transforms again and jumps in front of the screen, and he doesn't collect any rings in the credits, so he doesn't need them to transform, he just needs them in the gameplay.
everyone can now that if they watched the games
@@Sonic2024freedomera What do you mean?
@@coisascaioticas everyone can know that the transformation is without rings when you watch the game
That only ever happened in that game. And was at the very inception of the idea of super saiyan transformations for sonic characters (and no. I wasn't _just_ being funny. The idea and design were partly inspired by DBZ)
Every game after and all the comics I can think of have never done that again. Safe to say it was just a fun little "gotcha" moment to jazz up the credits.
@@3xeplodng_3agle_studiosAnd in Sonic 2? Where Sonic doesn't have rings in the Death Egg but can still transform? How do you explain this?
@MatPat: Just a heads-up, neodymium is used in the MOTOR of EVs; **NOT** the battery. The “rare-earth” metal that’s used in batteries is cobalt, and that’s being phased out really quickly. Other than that, a fairly entertaining theory.
Dorkly already joked about how the rings are probably made of lead and gold paint
3:05 Blames America; shows a UK product.
Yeah, one of our early drafts said he started off brown and the UK adopted it before we changed drafts but it was still the UK that ran with the idea.
The amount of times you use Sonic Unleashed as evidence for this theory just made my respect for you skyrocket.
Do the rings shrink from the bigger size to the smaller size when Sonic gets them? If so, what kind of issues would arise from their increased density?
no,they are just weirdly inconsistent in size
in 11:40 you mention the price of the rings if they were made of gold. The only issue is that you're using 76kg to find that price, which is incorrect since the rings weight 76kg if they were made of neodymium, not gold. The actual weight of the rings if they were made of gold would be about 211 kilograms (multiplying density of gold 19.32g/cm3 by volume of ring), leading to each ring costing about 12,431.11 dollars, using 58,900 dollars per kilo of gold as the conversion, which is the latest one I found.
Please explain it shortly i don't understand long and complex texts
@@yahyayazgi a gold ring would've weighed 211 kg instead of 76kg(due to differing densities, which I won't explain). Therefore, the cost of a gold ring of the same size would be a bit over 12.4k dollars. That's the tl;dr.
After stating that the rings are heavier than water and are magnetic- when do we include that they float in water and air until collected? :D
13:39 POV you live in 3059: That’s not that much money?
8:17 I believe neodymium is used for industrial magnets, but it would be less commonly used, given that it's used, well, industrially.
I commented this when I heard it, but I am shocked that I somehow predicted this.
So glad to see Unleashed getting some love these days! Super underrated game, that one
This is in my top 10 game theory videos, very entertaining and I love when they use actual science
Finally an actual Game Theory! These are my favorite kinds of theories and it feels so refreshing whenever we got something like this instead of another lore theory. Great video loved it ❤
“The biggest problem in the Sonic universe isn’t Robotnik, CLEARLY, it’s rampant price inflation.”
Even if the world ends matpat will still make videos 😂
Thank you Matt for everything ❤
Gold may be hard to comeby in earth but in sonic it may be more abundant in sonics world.
I love the more science based theories. They are a major callback to the OG days and I like learning cool facts and knowlage
3:18, i guess the line "Luigi is my favorite and Kirby is my man, of course i can't let Sonic win" didn't age well.😅
Wouldn’t the weight of the rings increase since a larger mass is being collapsed into a smaller form, thus making the small ones more expensive since price is based on weight? Unless MatPat is now claiming that the rings lose mass when they shrink, thus breaking physics laws since matter can’t be created or destroyed…
It's a question of which size is the original size. Are they naturally big and shrink down to be carried, or are they naturally small and inflate so they can be seen easier to be collected? It's easier to just say what the weight would be if each size were the original (so higher weight for the large size and lower weight for the small size).
I'm not usually one to point out mistakes, but at 12:03, Mat says that a kg of neodymium is around $127, and a couple seconds later, he says that a pound of neodymium is $270. A pound is a bit less than half of a kilogram, meaning that if it is $127/kg of neodymium, then it should be about $57/pound.
Glad someone said it so I didn't have to ;)
He probably switched them
@@4nt3lol90 It's quite likely
Something that’s perfect is that I went to the movies and I saw a advertisement for game theory and a couple minutes later I saw a ad for the FNaF movie
6:11
We get a new secret Channel :
It's Fnaf Theory
You forgot about that one ring thats 2-3 times the size of sonic in sonic the hedgehog1 and sonic cd
Btw sonic jump fever also has a shop in it👀 you can buy chaos using the rings
Matpat I don’t think this changes anything but on mobile you can get 80 robux for 99 cents 2:33
0:33 thank you mat pat I needed to hear that 😢
One major problem with the theory they they are made of that.
They would attract each other....majorly.
Can't wait to see what comes of the survey, section 2 has some really intriguing options. Lotta potential for the future!
I’m lonely 2:02 in the video, I wouldn’t go off the sss rings that’s not Sega doing it, that’s gamefam makingthe prices and his thing is outdated
man it is nice to have a sonic theory after so long!
1:31 you know, I decided to check if you were pulling my leg, given I played that game and I didn't remember it being made by the developers of sonic.
... Apparently it is. _The more you know._
It's not, just ya'know made by a team who know Lua, (Lua being the coding engine roblox games are in)
Matpat: this must not be gold at all! 8:45
Me: just put the magnetic metal in a smaller ring INSIDE the GOLD ring
I'm just happy to be a part of the survey to help out :D
Team Theorists for the win!
13:20 he can increase his max ring capacity to 999
this makes me remember of that one scene in sonic for hire when sonic gets paid in rings at one point and he thinks he's rich until he realises the exchange rate is terrible and he barely made any money
Fun fact they have confirmed how much it ring is worth since unleashed in 2008 because in that game you can buy real foods like chili dogs if you’re wondering chili dogs cost 50 rings I don’t know how much a normal chili dog in real life costs, but it probably costs at least three bucks
Also there is six sonic games sonic generations 4:01
I think for something the size of a silver dollar that can easily be found anywhere 11$ isn't too bad
Pick up 2 rings per hour and you got around minimum wage (technically more than minimum wage but if we take the minimum wage from like 50 years ago when it was actually a reasonable living wage and account for inflation the minimum wage was worth closer to 20 an hour)
This was awesome! Felt like a proper OG episode - top tier work MatPat & Theorist Crew 🔥
Are you SURE these rings are made of Earthly materials? Metal Sonic is made of blue metal, and while alloys CAN be blue like you said, none that I know of have that bright and pure blue color. Also, when Sonic threw his ring at 12:44 the ring grew in size, so either the rings or Sonic have the power to control sizes, and judging by the rings magical properties when used by Super Sonic, I'd say it's the rings growing and shrinking. Neodymium, from what I can tell, can't grow or shrink, though other metals can.
Metal Sonic is made of blue metal...OR he's simply painted blue, like how we paint cars.
dang- if you use cheats in the old pixelated Sonic games, he can carry up to 999 rings, which is 75924 kilograms. proof: 11:20
Cheats don't count
Rings weren't really a currency until later games. They are a power source.