Where’s this 7 year tribulation when John says: “I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation...” Revelation 1:9 NKJV Who are these if not the church: “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,” Revelation 7:9 NKJV The tribulation and Gods wrath are not synonymous as many claim. We are not destined for Gods wrath which appears in Rev 6:17 the 6th seal. We are seen in heaven at the same 6th seal Rev 7:9,14 rescued from His wrath.
Thank you for watching the video and commenting Carl. John sees the church in a time of tribulation, even in his day, which it certainly was. In chapter 1, he was not referencing the specific time period he would prophesy about in Chapters 6-19, the final Great Tribulation. John certainly lived in a time of terrible tribulation. Domitian demanded he be confessed as Lord and had 40,000 Christians killed. Most likely, this is why John was exiled to Patmos. The church was under terrible persecution. He communicated that the church was in the “last hour” (1 John 2:18). The church has faced tremendous tribulation since its birth, but I would distinguish between this general tribulation and Daniel’s 70th week, the final 7-year tribulation. The saints in heaven before the throne in Revelation 7:9 are the saints of all ages, including the church. Yet there will be saints on earth enduring the Great Tribulation who will be martyred by the Antichrist (the Beast). He will make war and conquer these saints (Revelation 13:7). I believe the church will have been raptured and will be with the Lord in Heaven at this point (as you referenced in Rev. 7:9). Those saints belonging to the time of the church cannot be conquered by the antichrist. (Mt. 16:18). I agree with you that we are not destined for God’s wrath. The church saints will not be on earth to see God's wrath in the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.
@@pastorjohngreen I hear what you’re saying but the translators chose to use the word “the” not “in” tribulation in Rev 1:9. As a matter of fact I have been unable to find an English translation that uses “in” regarding that verse. So imho your argument is extremely weak. John then again refers to the tribulation in verses 7:9 and 14. How do you reconcile that? Verses 1:9, 7:9 and 7:14 of Rev make perfect sense. I’m no scholar but seems to me pretribers have to ignore these verses or change their meaning to make them fit their narrative.
@@Carl-bd1rf That’s a good observation Carl. The way I have understood this is in light of John’s outline for the book in Rev. 1:19, where Jesus tells him to “write therefore the things that you have seen (Chapter 1:9-20), those things that are (chapter 2-3), and those that are to take place after this (Chapters 4-22). The tribulation John is referring to in 1:9 is the current tribulation he has experienced with the church since its birth. The tribulation referenced in chapter 7 (during the seal judgments) is a much more severe tribulation yet to come that Jesus spoke about (Mt. 24:21 - For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been form the beginning of the world until now, and never will be.) In my understanding, this allows for both the tribulation the church faced during John’s time, (as well as our time), but still recognizes a time of distinct and incredible tribulation yet to come.
@@pastorjohngreen I hear what you’re saying. I believe Jesus said after the abomination that causes desolation occurs the world will see such great tribulation as never before or ever will. Another question I have that no one seems to have an answer for is where does scripture state that “the tribulation” is synonymous with Daniel’s 70th week. It’s obvious Daniel’s 70th week is a time of great tribulation but I can’t find where it says it’s “the tribulation”? We see in Revelation that John speaks to “the tribulation” and Gods wrath as separate time periods. Again I’m not a biblical scholar but I find it interesting how John speaks to two different time periods and today the church leaders want to combine the periods into one.
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Says 6 comments, but I'm the 3rd. Shadowbanning I presume?
Funny it says there are way more comments than the zero i found.
Honestly, I'm confused about that, too, Tim. I saw "3 comments," but yours is the first I've seen. ??
@@pastorjohngreen YT hates truth.
Where’s this 7 year tribulation when John says:
“I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation...”
Revelation 1:9 NKJV
Who are these if not the church:
“After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,”
Revelation 7:9 NKJV
The tribulation and Gods wrath are not synonymous as many claim. We are not destined for Gods wrath which appears in Rev 6:17 the 6th seal. We are seen in heaven at the same 6th seal Rev 7:9,14 rescued from His wrath.
Thank you for watching the video and commenting Carl.
John sees the church in a time of tribulation, even in his day, which it certainly was. In chapter 1, he was not referencing the specific time period he would prophesy about in Chapters 6-19, the final Great Tribulation. John certainly lived in a time of terrible tribulation. Domitian demanded he be confessed as Lord and had 40,000 Christians killed. Most likely, this is why John was exiled to Patmos. The church was under terrible persecution.
He communicated that the church was in the “last hour” (1 John 2:18). The church has faced tremendous tribulation since its birth, but I would distinguish between this general tribulation and Daniel’s 70th week, the final 7-year tribulation.
The saints in heaven before the throne in Revelation 7:9 are the saints of all ages, including the church. Yet there will be saints on earth enduring the Great Tribulation who will be martyred by the Antichrist (the Beast). He will make war and conquer these saints (Revelation 13:7). I believe the church will have been raptured and will be with the Lord in Heaven at this point (as you referenced in Rev. 7:9). Those saints belonging to the time of the church cannot be conquered by the antichrist. (Mt. 16:18).
I agree with you that we are not destined for God’s wrath. The church saints will not be on earth to see God's wrath in the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.
@@pastorjohngreen
I hear what you’re saying but the translators chose to use the word “the” not “in” tribulation in Rev 1:9.
As a matter of fact I have been unable to find an English translation that uses “in” regarding that verse. So imho your argument is extremely weak.
John then again refers to the tribulation in verses 7:9 and 14.
How do you reconcile that?
Verses 1:9, 7:9 and 7:14 of Rev make perfect sense.
I’m no scholar but seems to me pretribers have to ignore these verses or change their meaning to make them fit their narrative.
@@Carl-bd1rf That’s a good observation Carl.
The way I have understood this is in light of John’s outline for the book in Rev. 1:19, where Jesus tells him to “write therefore the things that you have seen (Chapter 1:9-20), those things that are (chapter 2-3), and those that are to take place after this (Chapters 4-22). The tribulation John is referring to in 1:9 is the current tribulation he has experienced with the church since its birth. The tribulation referenced in chapter 7 (during the seal judgments) is a much more severe tribulation yet to come that Jesus spoke about (Mt. 24:21 - For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been form the beginning of the world until now, and never will be.) In my understanding, this allows for both the tribulation the church faced during John’s time, (as well as our time), but still recognizes a time of distinct and incredible tribulation yet to come.
@@pastorjohngreen
I hear what you’re saying.
I believe Jesus said after the abomination that causes desolation occurs the world will see such great tribulation as never before or ever will.
Another question I have that no one seems to have an answer for is where does scripture state that “the tribulation” is synonymous with Daniel’s 70th week.
It’s obvious Daniel’s 70th week is a time of great tribulation but I can’t find where it says it’s “the tribulation”?
We see in Revelation that John speaks to “the tribulation” and Gods wrath as separate time periods.
Again I’m not a biblical scholar but I find it interesting how John speaks to two different time periods and today the church leaders want to combine the periods into one.