Milwaukee M18 HD12.0 - Is it fixable?
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Update 7/3/23 - The $95 M18 8.0Ah from Amazon is a Fake!
In this video we look inside of a faulty M18 12.0AH HD High Output battery. This pack was given to us to look at by a friend. Thanks to Ronald for giving it to us to learn from and to use for parts. This could have possibly been a repair video, but after some testing on the board and some bad cells I decided to go a different direction. I did try to get a broken 8AH pack to have some spare cells to possibly repair the 12AH and well that did not go as planned. It seems I was sent a 6AH in the 8AH housing! We have some other options for the next video or videos to take this repair further. This video has taken 2 months to complete from waiting on parts to arrive and testing cells and seeing how they test 1 month later. I know this video did get long, but I did not want to cut out a huge amount of the testing and troubleshooting. Hope you find the video helpful and thanks for watching!
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*7/3/23 Update- This pack is a fake, A well crafted Fake!
Milwaukee M18 8.0AH on Sale as of 6/30/23: amzn.to/3pufa6q - Don't Buy!
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Finally - An expert electronics engineer who walks the walk and talks the talk! This particular video was SO helpful in guiding my repair of several M18 packs, saving me hundreds of $$$. Thank you, kind sir - you are the real deal!!
So glad you found it helpful. Thanks so much for your kind comment!
Thank you! I learned a lot. In your video you gave 5 options for your next video. I would like to see "8.0 AH built from the older good 21700 cells". Thanks!
Not sure if you said this, but after it’s fixed you should FULLY charge (even after it’s “done” to top balance the cells) then kill it all the way. Fully charge it then it should be fine. The shop I work in for my engineering internship had problems with them when they would almost never fully charge or discharge them with them switching to the flashing light. I used the jump start method and balanced them as I explained above and brought back 7/8 of the batteries. I think the one had a bad cell or bms.
I have some of these 12.0 boards if you need any. Good working boards.
I’ve revived lots of these Milwaukee batteries without having to replace cells or anything. If it’s got the single blinking light most of the time in my experience it can be balanced, charged up and used again. I just got a bunch of super cheap tp4056 charging boards and use those to charge each cell up individually until they are all top balanced. If you power each board from separate usb power supplies you can charge multiple cells at the same time!
Some of the packs I’ve restored have eventually fallen back out of balance but many are still going strong. With the price of these high capacity battery packs I’ve saved myself and some friends a whole lot of money by bringing these packs back to life.
This made me think about how much I’ve learned about repairing electronics in the past few years, and I have your videos partially to thank! I think the first battery I really got deep into was an Ego 56v pack and your videos were the only thing I could find on troubleshooting those packs. Your clear instructions gave me the confidence to attempt a repair, and once I successfully brought one $300 battery back to life I was hooked!
Yes. I have many cells that have at least to some degree come back as well. I have several videos on that also. The unfortunate thing is most people think many are that way and after 12 years of working on lithium packs it is way more likely a cell capacity issue than a true quick fix. I share in the videos of the cells either dropping off quickly which is hopefully obvious to everyone why that's not good. I try to educate to show the cells even after being charged up like these and look ok to most people if you test them one month later you will see the truth. I am working on the other videos now for several different packs and one happens to be a 8ah that I bought that has seemed to balance out just fine and is so far holding after a week or so. I am hopeful that it will be a good pack, but deep down we all know it got that way somehow...
Thinking it is a totally good battery I would be deceiving myself.
@@ThriftyToolShed Well said, It’s important to remember the battery didn’t end up in a non-working state for no reason, so I never expect to magically transform a pack to “new” condition. After having attempted many repairs on other brand of battery packs I’ve been quite surprised by just how many old discarded Milwaukee brand packs I have brought back to life for many more months of use with such a simple fix. My guess is that the ones I’ve had luck reviving were ones that failed due to being over-discharged and/or stored for too long on too low a charge. No battery pack of any quality will last forever, and if I can pull what was once a $400 pack from the recycle bin and back into service for a few more months I call it a win.
As far as safety, after personally experiencing a lithium battery fire I now treat any battery pack as if it has the potential to burst into flames and I have multiple fire extinguishers and bags of sand ready for the remote chance something goes wrong. I think the likelihood of thermal runaway on one of my revived high capacity Milwaukee batteries is very low though, especially when the pack is left intact.
Absolutely!
That's so awesome! Excellent work. Thanks so much for your kind comment!
This video is a very good one. Learning about the board, very good. Oh and the 40T3 cells too.
The screws are Torx "Security", T10 & T8.
18:32 Milwaukee M18 shuts off at 2.5V/cell on their 21700 packs and 2V/cell on their 18650 packs.
Good job on letting the cells sit for 1 month. Very thorough. I would have given up after a few days
You are saying you have seen a M18 pack shutdown below 2.8-3V per cell! 2V is way to low for 18650 wow! I usually see 2.8V-3V, but it's been a while since I tested some of the M18s.
@ThriftyToolShed yeah, I was shocked, too. Tested every type of pack I had to be sure of it. Vid is on my channel if you want to see it, but it's a relatively easy test for someone like you. I'd be interested to see if North American batteries have the same LVC. Note that it's only the 18650 2/3/4/5ah that have 2V, probably also the 1.5ah, but I don't have one of them. The 18650 6ah and 9ah are 2.5V. Then all the 21700 packs are 2.5V.
I will check out your video and I have tested my own, but it's been years ago.
I've fixed quite a few milwaukee batteries, I find if a group of cells goes bad it's best just to change those cells without disconnecting the board and then rebalance before pluging it back on the charger.
That is an easy method and I have shown many repairs over the years similar to that. Of course I mentioned that it is simply to get a pack by. That is not a proper repair and anyone that has a background in batteries knows that. I always mentioned when fixing the quick way that it's always best to replace them all or at the very least test all cells for capacity, internal resistance and after 1 month or so re-test voltage as shown. Even in a golf cart etc. we all know replacing one battery is not the way to properly fix them. It will always reveal that, always. Hopefully this shows a more in depth reason why most of these cells fail to start with and simply look at the reliability chart from Samsung that I shared and why the simple swapping out one set of cells is not a good method. I think we all know that if we have been repairing for a long time. This video was hopefully helpful to the ones who think the easy way is really ok!
At 31:30 I don’t understand how you reset the board. You twice put the board on the charger and after a moment removed it and tested it, it flashed 1 bar in error yet after the second attempt you stated it was reset but doesn’t look like it??? Trying to diagnose 2 8HO, 12HO, and a 9.0 with the same 1 bar issue.
Putting it on the charger was the reset. It has been mentioned in several videos in that series of videos, sorry if not as clear in this particular video. Typically the charger will reset that and some packs will go through a diagnostic type test if you hold the fuel gauge button down for 5 secs or so that may help in some cases...
Go for it! Would love to see the entire build /repair series. Enjoy the work you do, thanks!
Would love to see a Amazon type kit done up with quality cells. Wether hi capacity or hi discharge I think it would be quite interesting. Great work
I did a video on the 8Ah pack kit. I ended up using the 12Ah kit for the "Beast". The Lipo pack that I sent in to Torque Test Channel. Thanks for your kind comment.
ruclips.net/video/w3MyNC_3dFw/видео.htmlsi=PsXaJv00NygkfGwY
Would be great to see a repair/rebuild as well as a kit build up. Thanks.
I repaired a 6 XC earlier this year that had the same board problem, dead, single flash... Once i got it to single flash and all of the cells in series, i jumped the 3.3v pads (two round gold colored) near led2 and led3 to the line side of the button and hit the button, all the leds lit up and led0 started flashing agian. placed it on the charger, green light, off charger, press button, working again. not sure if all charge boards are the same, as this was the only M18 ive looked at, so may not work in all applications.
Regarding the short on the MOSFET., there is an internal diode, so it will read like a short in one direction
Every time for sure, that's why I tested it both directions. 👍
Awesome work taking the heatsink off. I was sure that there were 5 mosfets under there to get higher balance current than the 50mA of the BQ76925. Seems it's a power disconnect. Now I'm curious as to what conditions it disconnects the power.
I was really surprised it had the Mosfets, the only M18 I have ever seen with them. I am confused since this one showed shorted both ways. Not just the diode. I have only worked on this one so I am not sure, but seems shorted/faulty! Thanks so much for your kind comment!
@@ThriftyToolShed could be residual charge from a cap keeping the gate open.
lol i just built the 10 cell battery with reclaimed cells from a dyson battery v8 battery has the 21700 cells. very easy to do, works well and charges fine. so far so good.
Awesome! Glad to know it's working well! I figured the newer Dyson models had 21700 cells. I have older models only and have not seen the 21700 version packs yet. I don't intend to buy one either as long as I can keep repairing the older models I have and of course I run one of mine with the M18 batteries. 🤣
Im currently balancing my 12.0 now. I have 3 that refuse to work correctly. 1 is obviously unbalanced. One seems balanced but wont charge. I'm going to try to jump start it.
They will need to be balanced before they charge. Jump starting may possibly make it worse instead of better if unbalanced. Especially if some cells are closer to fully charged, while some are lower. The charged one could be damaged or even catch fire by pushing them much over 4.2V for example. Best of luck to you with your repair!
@@ThriftyToolShed I tried to charge each bank separately but my charge refuses to charge it. I'm going order a cheap 1 cell charge board and wire it up. As of right now this project is on hold.
One pack seemed pretty well balanced. So I replaced the board on the pack. Still will not charge. 1 light flashing on the pack. Goes straight to green when placed in the charger. Not sure what's up with that pack.
Great video!!!!!!!👀😎👏👍👋✌️🇨🇦
Again, well done and I always learn.
Thanks so much for your kind comment!
Love this!!!! You got me watching
Great job love your videos 👍 I learn a lot love to tinker with this stuff very carefully of course lot of power in these batteries
Lots of power for sure. A lot to respect. I did mention more about that in the video called " Lithium Battery FAQ#1". Thanks for your kind comment!
Great video buddy!
Do you know which cells Milwaukee build in in the M18 5,5Ah HD High Output battery?
Thanks! Tool Scientist shared they have Samsung 30T 21700 cells in them. I have actually never seen the 5.5Ah in the US.
you shoud put those 40T cells in 8Ah battery, you need 10 of them. Just put cells, weld them, then put on charger, and you have one functional 8Ah battery for sell. After you sell that buy 15x40T cells, new ones and put them in 12Ah battery pack, then you can sell it, and you can tell its actualy new.
I did build an 8.4Ah pack with 21700 Molicel cells to do this same thing and after testing these 40T cells I can now do that exact same thing since I do have 10 of them that tested within a percent of the same capacity and internal resistance. I do not ever sell these of course, I just build these to use myself and testing like I did with the Beast sending it in to Torque Test Channel!
Thanks for your comment!
I wonder if the management board not doing a good job balancing out batteries sometimes
I don't think the board does the cells any favors and the 40T1 cells are known for dropping in capacity over a few dozen cycles compared to the 40T3 cells also. Looks like the cell issues have been corrected to much of a degree with the 40T3, but how many thousands of packs out there still have the 40T1 cells?
Great the best I saw
Phillip, if you want to reset those High Output, you need to put them back in the charger to reset them.
i ran across some of 8Ah and 12Ah are using the Sony VTC6a batteries instead of the Samsung 40T
Yes, I shared that in the 8ah video as well as in this one!
@@ThriftyToolShedi believed the 40T3 fixes some of the short life or bad batch
i seen some of 12Ah has a roll of dead cells, i mean 0 V dead
they called it a bug
a few i ran across are from the furthest point from the terminal
Very interesting how some of the newer packs are using the Sony VTC6A!
Hey any chance you can give a list of stuff to buy so I can try to fix my battery and save myself money please all m18 batteries
I do have links in the videos description of many things that I use and can recommend as they work well for me. Most repair videos have links in the description that align with items used in the video. I typically use Amazon and Northridge fix for tools and supplies. If you have a question about an item or tool, feel free to ask. I have a video in the works talking about the tools I use and like, but it's going to be a while before I get time to finish it. It's always something to fix....
12A batteries that flash the charging light cannot be repaired. Just change the circuit
They can sometimes. It means the cells are low and below healthy state. You can rarely recover the low cells, but usually replace cells and once put back on the charger it will reset the board.
@@ThriftyToolShed I've also tried it and it didn't work at all. The battery often blinks due to a battery error, the BMS will lock and there is no way to reset them to the original. Or another way is to use an ok battery connected to a flash battery to open the charger
@CauOngTroi
I definitely can see where sometimes the case may be a board failure and it will not recover, but I was simply saying you can usually recover the board. I have shown this as recently as the last 2 videos using the LiPo packs to connect to the same BMS board that was blinking and after putting it in the charger it will reset and work correctly. Same M18 12Ah board. Maybe not always the case, but I have only seen one board blinking the one red LED like that that would not reset. I know it is many different revisions to some of the same model numbers also, so things can absolutely be different. Even the cells are from different manufacturers in the same model number packs at times. I have seen many Dyson battery packs brick like that when the cells get too low. It really sucks that there is no easy way around it without reprogramming the microcontroller.
It's blinking because is under voltage
I just saved one just putting too another charger until has 17v that to original charger and it's work again (i tried few times)
Thanks for your comment. As mentioned in this video and many others it has bad cells. The actual whole point of the video is to help show the true condition of the cells instead of assuming charging it up will get it back to normal. Many people seem to think to boost it up and good to go. Over 95% of the time in my experience it is bad cells and the problem is simply masked by charging up to get a fault or error to clear. Think about it... How did some of the cells drop low to start with if cells are not balanced? In some cases when all cells have equally dropped down then yes the boost them up method can help, but even then if lithium cells get below 2V they most likely have irreversible capacity loss. These 40T cells have an issue that I found with capacity loss over time as shared in the video and I wanted to share for those that actually care to learn more about lithium cells in series and how close you need to monitor the individual cells behavior.
@ThriftyToolShed yes.a battery can have 3 problems
1.cells discharged or broken
2.bms broken
3.bad contacts between strips or bms
I watched all your video, i watch also to learn something
I just said that I happened with a battery that flashed the same way and after several attempts I managed to charge it in the original charger
Good luck ✌️
Thanks for watching and sharing!
I have 2 bad Milwaukee M18 High Output Lithium Ion 12.0Ah . Can you fix for me?
I wish I had time, I do get asked this often. I do not have a repair service at this time. I work full time+ in an Industrial job and try to have time to edit videos to post. I try to help by posting what I have found with a repair as we learn together. I don't have a lot of time left. I hope you can find someone you know that likes to tinker and hopefully after watching the video can help you out. I wish you the best of luck with yours.
Are your batteries old? I got three 12.0ah Milwaukee batteries on sale at Home Depot earlier this year for $399, or $133 a piece. They are working great so far, but there seems to be lots of failures.
How do you conbect the battery back up since it was spot welded
I spot weld the tabs up all the way to the power terminals.
I meant whst tool was it you used sorry for the typos
@terrysmith8505
You are asking what spot welder tool I used? It is a really good spot welder for the price. It is listed in the video description.
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This is an easy fix that doesn’t need to be fully tore down if you have a battery charger that charges lithium ion 18 650s make two wire leads and hook up each bank individually one at a time and charge them till they reach full which is 4.2, and you will have a fixed fully charged battery pack again
There’s another great video that demonstrates exactly how to do it just search RUclips and it will pop up
That is not a true fix and that is the only reason why I have taken the time to share these type videos. Everyone thinks jumping a freakin battery or balancing out the cells will fix a pack and it will not. Almost 99% of the time you will see that it is a cell problem or it would not have gotten unbalanced to begin with. This is explained to many videos I have on many packs. I have been working on batteries and electronics for almost 30 years and simply trying to share the true cause even when it takes me months to show you how the cells respond after storage and the next time you need it, oh well...
Anyway I am trying to help educate. These 40T cells are absolutely notorious for the slow drain discharge issues. As far as having to take the pack apart, I shared that in the video. I had other uses for the pack since several cells were not properly salvageable.
@@ThriftyToolShed i’m not knocking your video or your knowledge and since you’re the expert you’re probably 100% correct but the method that I have have posted fixed my battery and has been working with no issue for a long time now I was just stating another option for people that do not have your expertise or knowledge in the matter to do themselves to save them some money and still keep working with their tools but I definitely like your in-depth view and procedures of fixing it the correct way. Great video
Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you did really good on yours! Thanks for your kind comment!
All of the above please.
Wow
Greetings can you repair my batteries?
I wish I had time, I do get asked this often. I do not have a repair service at this time. I work full time+ in an Industrial job and try to have time to edit videos to post. I try to help by posting what I have found with a repair as we learn together. I don't have a lot of time left. I hope you can find someone you know that likes to tinker and hopefully after watching the video can help you out. I wish you the best of luck with yours.
What the hell is he talking about?
What is this question about?
I despise Miwaukee batteries. It is the worst thing about their power tools by far. I so wish I had just gone with DeWalt.
Sorry to hear that. I have many Milwaukee batteries that are 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8 years old powering my many many power tools. I have yet to have one of them go bad, all still in use today and I use all of them daily for all those years. Sounds like you got some bad ones. There are a lot of counterfeit Milwaukee batteries out there that look identical to the original OEM batteries. Only way for sure to know you are getting a true Milwaukee battery is to buy it only from an authorized Milwaukee seller. There is a reason Milwaukee won't warranty batteries bought from Amazon or Ebay.
This guys accent is fucking awesome!!!