Heated Israel-Palestine Discussion Erupts Into Passion & Honesty
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2024
- The Israeli-Palestinian conflict provokes powerful emotions no matter which side your views fall. Here is a must-see discussion unlike any you’ll see on any other media outlet. All sides are represented. Passions emerge but sanity and civility remain.
CORRECTION: Cenk mentioned believing the rockets had landed near the reporter upon further review it's clear the rockets were instead launched from near the reporters location.
"A Gaza cease-fire quickly unraveled Friday as violence erupted in a southern town in the war-ravaged strip, killing at least 44 Palestinians. The Israeli military said two soldiers were killed and an infantry officer was feared captured during fighting.
Israel and Hamas accused each other of breaking the cease-fire, which had been announced by the U.S. and the U.N. and took effect at 8:00 a.m. Friday. The fighting broke out less than two hours later.
The breakdown of the truce and the apparent capture of the Israeli soldier set the stage for a major escalation of the 25-day-old conflict, which has already devastated large swaths of the coastal area and killed at least 1,500 Palestinians, mainly civilians, according to Palestinian officials. Israel has lost 63 soldiers and three civilians."* The Young Turks hosts Cenk Uygur, Ana Kasparian, Jimmy Dore (The Jimmy Dore Show), and Dave Rubin (The Rubin Report) break it down.
*Read more here from Politico:
www.politico.com/story/2014/08...
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'Your Country Is Just Not That Into You: How the Media, Wall Street, and Both Political Parties Keep on Screwing You-Even After You’ve Moved On' by Jimmy Dore. Buy it here: goo.gl/t7GnDA
Shout out if Micheal Brooks just sent you here.
generic2858 watched this when it happened. Came back to it first when Kyle had a debate with Dave on Israel. Now back because of brooks.
Watch old jimmy dore on this if you miss when he was good.
LMFAO YES
Dave Rubin is CANCELED.
Yep! I don't like these Ideyuhs.
Who else just came here because of Michael Brooks?
This guy, but I saw this already. Back before Jimmy completely lost his damn mind and became indifferent to human rights abuses.
I remember this when this originally aired. Its so much funnier now. Ideeeeas!
came bc of Kyle & Jimmy Dore
@@wiseguymotionpictures1416 lol what?!
LMAO YEA
"You don't believe it. You don't. You're too good and too smart to believe that."
.....I think we can safely say Steve was woefully incorrect on that one...
Jimmy Dore's facial experssions are the best part of this
Lost respect for Dave Rubin, and sadly, this isn't the first person I've lost respect for. A friend of mine actually joined the IDF and has been posting pictures of him smiling and with thumbs up standing next to Israeli weapons. It's just sad how ordinarily intelligent and kind individuals can be mislead into supporting this apartheid regime of Israel. In no way will blocking escape and bombing civilians ever lead to a peaceful two-state solution. The "self-defence" claims are getting tiring. This isn't a two-sided war, this is absolute Israeli dominance over a vastly inferior force. It is Israel that has the moral responsibility to end this.
Yea but they don't want to. In reality, Israel is just where they want to be. What does Israel want? They want more territory(it's called a greater Israel). And the occupation is providing them with that opportunity since it lets them build more and more settlements knowing they will most likely be part of Israel in a far away future deal. Israel is fully aware that the longer the "conflict" goes on the more settlements they can build. And since Hamas totally outgunned and are not a real threat all Israel is doing is trying to preserve the status quo. They just want the conflict to go on and on. Noticed how NuttyYahoo freaked out when Hamas announced they would be part of a unity government just before the war started? He knew he was losing his favorite enemy and did want that and then go back to the negotiating table... So i knew then he would find an excuse or try a provocation and then he found one... Ultimately, all these people in Gaza that are dying are dying because of the Israeli tactic of peace avoidance and they know it full well. The leadership know it full well. They even talked about a new Palestinian peace "offensive" in the Israeli media in regard to the unity government just before the war... God know how many people will have to die before Israeli leader think their beloved Jewish state is big enough...
I’m seeing this comment almost 10 years later. ❤️💔❤️
Jimmy Dore has changed so much. If this were now he would be losing his mind and screaming. He would be right though.
cant blame him.. the US still supports more and more countries who bomb civilians
Jimmy felt like he has to walk the line somewhat on TYT, particularly when he wasn't hosting his own show.
@@avenuePad the pandemic melted Jimmy's brain tho
@@lucasc5461 Haha, yeah, okay...
@@Snake8418 like literally every intellectual ally he's had is no longer in his circle, he's gone so off the rails
Steve Oh, here. I come in at 29:10. To those who think it's okay to bomb a school or a hospital or a UN-sanctioned shelter on the grounds that Hamas is hiding bombs there, explain to me why Israel has to bomb those buildings instead of just going into them with their elite IDF troops? Sure, sending troops into those building rather than simply bombing them is riskier, but isn't it better to risk the lives of some of your troops than knowingly and intentionally killing hundreds of innocent children? That's the point of war. You risk your troops in order to kill the enemy troops and you do everything possible not to kill children. If the enemy is hiding among children, you cannot kill them at that moment. You have to figure out a different strategy. You can't just kill a whole bunch of children to get some "bad guys". Worse here, there's no proof that those schools and hospitals Israel bombed even had Hamas fighters or weapons.
I agree 100%. War is harsh but some people believe that it should not have no limits. At the moment Israel is far more powerful than Hamas and their technological capabilities are by far superior! It only means that such technologies should be used to kill the enemy. We know that the U.S supplies technologies to Israel and we know that we have missiles that can use pinpoint accuracy which can only strike an area when such an area is targeted by using computer systems. The fact that these precise technologies are hitting targets that are said to be a mistake continuously can only make one wonder if these targets where innocents are being housed are being hit on purpose? When it happens again and again and again!
And Hamas rockets are only threatening the Israelis who are occupying Palestinian land. If they want to defend themselves against Hamas rockets, they can defend themselves by moving out of Palestinian land. Israel is the invader. And I'm talking about the internationally recognized Palestinian-Israeli border. I'm not saying the whole Israel is Palestinian land, don't get me wrong. And why do you or anyone have to entertain the lies Israel tells? You know they're lies. You know there are no Hamas militants hiding in those places Israel just bombed, or in any school or hospital or shelter Israel bombed in the past. You know it's a lie. If you hear that argument again, just say: "prove it." "Prove that there are Hamas militants hiding there."
I'll tell you why, Steve.
Because if Israel starts sending in troops to buildings where there are civilians and militants, than Hamas will get in the habit of using civilians to lure Israeli soldiers into traps.
Not to mention the logistics of actually getting the troops into the building in the first place which would require an occupation, something you're against.
So it's all or nothing. Either no occupation and air strikes, or full occupation and special forces.
I just cant figure out how ppl that were mass-murdered can do the same thing to somebody else. I cant feel bad for what happened to them much longer. like a grown up that was abused as a kid but now does the same thing to other kids. what Israel is doing is worse than what America is doing in the middle east, mainly because Israel should know how it feels too be on the other end of this.
I completely agree with you Steve,even if there were militants or rockets in the hospitals and schools that got bombed ( which is not true according to the UN, rockets were found only in ABANDONED schools) that doesn't mean it okey to bomb wounded and sick people and kill sleeping children and woman! it's crazy that people are justifying this
so basically this is why he left.... yup pretty sure it was
I would want to leave after this. It was really embarrassing for him, he showed his ass here.
He said his pivotal moment was the cenk sam debate.
Walt His facts only world of twisted morality.
Did I just witness a respectful, well-reasoned debate on the Israel-Gaza conflict? No way. I must be dreaming.
Don't go too far into the comments section. It just the opposite.
Stealth Clown Just had to bring my attention down there, eh? So long, brief glimmer of optimism. It was a good thirty minute fling.
civility is optional when one side is cool with bombing schools
I respect jimmy so much for not ripping daves head off in this one
Why ? Dave is right, these assholes are all wrong.
One most know the correct answer in order to "correct" others. That's the flaw in your comment.
Lilianna Mathers not on facts. If he’s wrong on the facts, regardless of which side you’re on, he can be wrong.
Thank you Kyle for highlighting this video. Couldn't stop laughing!
Three years later and I'm here because Kyle talked about it again today.
@@gottfriedleibniz8581 lmfao
He just talked about it again
@@gottfriedleibniz8581 lmao i love it
@@gottfriedleibniz8581 Just came from kyles video today.. I actually think that’s the smartest Iv ever heard Dave sound.. not to say I agreed with his points but just how he articulated his position was actually surprisingly coherent for Dave Rubin (obviously other than him saying “war sucks” like 6 times) but the rest of his arguments I actually think weren’t bad and I kinda think kyles just being a little harsh about him.. and this is coming from someone who has no use for Dave Rubin in 2022 and a big fan of Kyle.
Glad to see Rave Dubin hasn't changed a bit. Whenever he's backed into a corner, all of a sudden he has to remind everyone he's not in the same room as the people who massacred innocent people and it's just an "intellectual discussion". What a rube.
You can clearly tell Jimmy Dore was very frustrated about arguing with Dave Rubin. I've never seen him so quiet and just make facial expressions. His facial expressions every time Rubin talked was pretty clear.
Civilian casualties are not acceptable.
***** No, that's how war CRIME works. War is military personnel from opposing factions fighting eachother. Military personnel killing civilians is tyranny and/or murder.
The fact that the powers that be don't particularly care whether or not civilians get killed is irrelevant to the fact that it is morally unacceptable for members of the military to kill civilians.
***** That is just utterly untenable.
EndlessVacuum
And fighting without uniform is also a war crime. You know why? Because it makes it impossible to differentiate between combatants and civilians. Kinda like what is happening in Palestine don't you think?
YoungerBrother Wakeup Nothing is happening in Palestine right now because Palestine no longer exists.
YoungerBrother Wakeup The problem is that the former population of Palestine are being imprisoned in a small area of Israel, you facetious fuck.
I can't stand Jimmy Dore.
I love Jimmy Dore.
+MetisEhtheist how can you love such a regressive lizard like person?
It is NOT disputed land :).
Israel left Gaza, and built way more in The West Bank ... so the occupation continued and grew.
The problem is Hamas using buildings as military bases and using human shields. Hamas is responsible by not evacuating the citizens.
***** Gaza is 25 miles long. They could move a mile or two away from the fighting which only happening in one small area.
Really so already taking an extremely densed populated area and making more dense so that people would be living on streets is a solution you sir are an idiot they cant go anywhere they can barely grow food or have water or have electricity ohh yeah the last time Israel told civilians to move and they did they got bomb really your argument is invalid
shirehorse91 And with a population over 1.5 million. How are you going to avoid casualties... ever? Human shield is just IDF propaganda to justify their killings.
DS LD No, they actually use human shields. The reason they are being killed is that Hamas refuses to evacuate it's citizens.
***** Gaza is 25 miles long. The fighting occurs in one small part. When they are given notice that a building is to be bombed move 50 feet away for a couple of hours. It's not rocket science.
Dave Rubin: Seriously?
Cenk was way too fair to Dave
I think they knew he was a bit dumb.
@@user-gu1un7pb7k They should have known he was a Giuliani-supporting republican as early as 2006.
Jimmy's reaction is priceless
humor me for just a moment. soon after September 11th, 2001, many Americans felt that we were under attack and faced an existential threat. we opted for war, and justified it as defending ourselves and getting justice. 13 years later, it's pretty god damn obvious how stupid this effort was, and how harmful it has been to the entire world. Dave, like many people, is panicking because he is thinking in the moment, thinking short term, and letting fear cloud his rationality. Israel is not at war with Hamas, they are spreading fear and terror by murdering civilians. it's unjustifiable, just as the wars we conducted in the middle east are unjustifiable.
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. But the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
Do you not see the difference of fighting on the other side of the globe and defending your country against ongoing attack? U.S. always has a choice not to fight. Israel does not have. The Iron dome may be effective but it is not as effective of thousands of miles of ocean.'
It is easy to criticize others. What would you do if you were in the shoes of Israelis? Hamas intends to destroy Israel and it uses every mean it can to do just that: rockets, tunnels, suicide bombings etc.
And do not say that Israel should never have been founded. Even if we agreed on that, one cannot change past.
***** i wouldn't bomb civilians. it's that simple
with one big difference we deliberately went after the wrong country for reasons not disclosed to the people. There was evidence of planning to go to Iraq EVEN if 911 did NOT happen. They just conveniently used 911 sentiments to justify something they were already planning hence the protests for the Iraq war. Had we went after the terrorists groups whom did attack us and we ended up killing civilians from those countries that would be a more accurate analogy. And then the debate would have been HOW we should conduct ourselves in a military conflict not whether we SHOULD. So there is a lot to criticize Israeil for for being reckless. But the solution is not as simple as just stop killing people. If it were the conflict would stop. I think that because why would any country want bad publicity without any political or financial gain which I think some politicians in the US did "make bank" on. If people are gaining from military intervention from Israeil it is that motive people should attack if that is the case. So far I do not know what else Israeil has to gain from mindlessly indiscriminately shooting missles for no reason. If that could be explained to me my position would be more in line with being against it as I was against the Iraq war
that's an excellent articulation, robert. so here is the problem. israel has as much to gain from obliterating hamas and all palestinians as hamas has to gain from destroying israel; property. we SHOULD criticize and be furious with the current leadership of israel precisely because we know this war is purely based on political gains and advantage, not truly for 'protection'. it is such a shallow and vapid attempt at justifying terrorism, and it amazes me that the US has been so quiet about this. yes, we have quite an extensive history of perpetrating war crimes, and now israel does. but what makes us a democracy, and a decent one at that, is that we can rise above the amoral trading of punches eye for eye (except it's eye for head with israel and palestine at the moment). we have a duty to call israel on their bullshit and bring it to an end.
"War sucks" is really not the level of intellectual and philosophical analysis of the situation I was expecting from Dave.
Really? Its the exact reaction I would expect from Dave Rubin. He's always been so unimpressive to me, but apparently he's a multi-millionaire so, Jokes on me, and THAT is the extent of "comedy" coming from Dave Rubin. He IS the joke.
Steve Oh's schooling of Rubin at 29:09 is epic!
What does he mean? I dont understand what side hes ON?
Dave, the Palestinians also live with a neighbor that wants to kill them and they are being occupied by that neighbor.
This is just bullshit. If Israel would be as willing to kill the so called "Palestinians" as vice versa, there would be none left. Luckily, the more peaceful side in this conflict is also the more competent one.
@@f.c.laukhard3623 This is a bad argument and a bad way of thinking. They must be peaceful, because they have the capability to kill everyone and only kill some?
@@TheReddaredevil223 This is a misrepresentation of what I said and I guess you know it.
You surely read that OP said that Israel wants to kill them implying, and this is a common trope among sympathisers with the so called Palestinians, that Israel is planning or committing genocide. This is what I attacked.
Besides, it is true. Gazans are marching towards the border, attacking Israel, trying to storm the border (and we all know that they do not want to send flowers when they make it through) and Israel is trying to avoid killing.
I can assure that if Hamas would do the same at the border to Egypt what they do to Israel, there would be many more deaths.
If Israel were as bad as people pretend, they would simply occupy Gaza and either kill or deport Arabs who live there. If they were just half as evil as people pretend they are, Gaza would not be tolerated to exist. But what did Israel do instead? They retracted all troops from Gaza and even Jewish families who lived their for millennia moved away form Gaza.
Egypt was smart enough to take the peace Israel offered by giving them Sinai back without any demands. Hamas was not smart enough to take the same deal.
@@f.c.laukhard3623 1600 dead
"the more peaceful side"
Peace via bombing. Gotta love right wing fascism.
@@NeoFryBoy Yawn. Name throwing is the full extent of your intellect, isn't it?
I did not even pretend that Israel is completely innocent and of course they are less brutal than Hamas. Hamas' charter still includes the will to get rid of the Jewish people altogether. Did you not know that or are you willfully ignoring it?
And if in your silly little world someone is a fascist who defends a people from cheap propaganda by those who side with terrorists who really want to commit genocide, then I am sorry but you are a fool.
Maybe I misjudge you and you are more rational in which case I urge you to inform yourself a bit better on your own but I have had enough discussions with people like you to know that most of you are so deep in their world that discussions are not fruitful so forgive me if in the future I won't reply anymore to anything you say.
It just costs precious time and has no more use than trying to teach pigs to fly. Not that I want to compare antisemites to pigs, that would be unfair- towards pigs, of coure who are in fact quite likeable and intelligent beings and of immense use to humanity.
Wow. I can't believe Dave is so obstinate. I'm unsubbing from his channel after watching this discussion. He just sat there and defended murdering children in situations where there is absolutely no justification for it. What a tool.
Unsubbing because ONE person in an organization has an opinion you don't agree with is silly.
*****
Missed that part somehow, thanks.
So you would rather just watch a news channel that makes you feel good about your beliefs than actually challenge yourself to hear the other side?
What pisses me off is about 90% of TYT commenters I see watch because they want to cheer and dance around because a few libs in LA are saying things they completely agree with. So when the first time TYT actually has a legitimate debate, people like you lose their shit because you're not being patted on the back back the whole team.
I think TYT says a lot of dumb shit and is ignorant in a lot of topics. They piss me off a lot, and that's the whole point. I disagree with them about 50% of the time, but as someone who does their best to keep an open mind, I always listen to what they have to say.
Being a progressive and watching TYT every day makes you just as bad as the conservatives who watch Fox News. You're not interested in the truth. You're not interested in having a real debate. You just want to feel comfortable about your views. And at the end of the day, liberal or conservative, those kinds of people are the ones that are cause problems in society.
So here's my advice: grow a pair of fucking balls and listen to and accept the other side.
I unsubbed from his channel when I realized he was libertarian. And a pretty damn stupid one.
Alex Smith
I would if the other side wasn't defending the indefensible. The problem here isn't that Israel is responding to Hamas. The problem is that they are killing innocent civilians in the process. I mean 80+ percent of casualties being civilians?! They're not even fucking trying. It just like jimmy said, killing Innocent kids playing on a beach isn't war its murder.
I have to give a ton of credit to Dave here. He did a great job defending the Israeli position without all the rhetoric bs that you hear from Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians. And it really did take guts to go against everyone else at TYT on this issue. That was really great. He had a great point when he asked what Israel should do in their current situation. End the occupation? That's academic, the rockets are already being launched at them. I hate when people say we're breeding hate for Israel/the west within the next generation of Palestinians also. Did we breed hate for the US when we defeated Germany and Japan in WWII? No. We crushed them and forced their populations to accept their defeat. That's what Israel should do to Hamas. If civilians have to die, so be it. That's war.
Actually there was another option other than war but that would actually require Palestine being recognized by the UN as a member and the US not vetoing.
Palestine would in turn be able to pursue legal channels and be able to bring in Israel before the International Court of Justice and sue them and ACTUALLY win.
Israel won't do that because then they would immediately have to give back lands that they have annexed and lift the blockades.
A militant group like Hamas is the perfect excuse but then again it was Mossad who was encouraged Hamas in its infancy in the first place.
uzumakiangelus I understand that, but you're not addressing the current situation. It's all well and good to say that Israel has done things in the past that it should not have done. It's correct to say that it has treated the Palestinian people unfairly. But that's academic. Rockets are being fired from Gaza now. Tunnels are being used to terrorize Israeli civilians now. What can Israel do? And don't say "well they can not have occupied Gaza for 40-odd years." Yes, that's true, but it hardly stops the current wave of violence, does it?
***** Wow, what a point. I wonder if you have any other brilliant insights.
***** Well feel free to share them. So far you've contributed nothing.
ImperatorAvgvstvs That's a fair point. Obviously this is an issue too complex for some random dude on the internet to solve but, here's what I would try to do: Israel already has the worlds most advanced missile defense system in the world, I would trust the safety of the Israeli civilians to it, but instead of hitting back at the militants who fired rockets that were not even successful regardless of the possibility of hitting civilians, I would try sending in someone from Mossad, or some other special forces team to hunt down the individuals responsible, rather than doing air strikes. I'm not a military expert so I don't know, is there some reason why Israel could not do that rather than these very risky air strikes?
"Yes, war sucks." - brilliant, Dave
I think Dave doesnt want to admit that killing children or civilians is wrong in any sense. It is ridiculously wrong and Jimmy is correct and straight to the point
yeah but israel wasn't trying to kill women and children, they were trying to kill hamas
Collateral damage happens. Hamas is totally okay with killing children and women. When Israel does it, it's a mistake. But only Israel is held to a higher standard.
3:39 You guys seemed to have missed reported this talking point. Bombs did not land at the reporters location. Pay close attention he said a rocket was just launched "Shot" from his location.
I caught that too!
Yep, that's true. Although he also said he didn't want to stay there long, because the Israelis tend to shell areas where rockets were launched just moments after they were launched, so he wants to bug out of there as quickly as possible.
But you're right, TYT missed that point. There is a tendency with TYT to slant towards the Palestinians and against Israel, so they should be more careful in their reporting. For example, if Hamas is launching a rocket from that location, doesn't that beg the question that Hamas is goading Israel to attack civilian locations in order to increase the civilian body count?
Which would make it doubly stupid for Israel to bomb those locations, but also leaves open the possibility that Hamas isn't entirely blameless in this whole mess.
pudgimelon Even though I mostly agree with TYT's talking points. I also want accurate reporting. I just had to watch the clip once and understood that it was a launch and not a bombing. And I absolutely think Hamas was launching to attract a hit. But that would be speculation.
pudgimelon No one is saying Hamas is entirely blameless. No one who is not an idiot anyway. Hamas is to blame but it's not a matter of one side being more to blame than the other. Both sides are responsible for their own actions and both Hamas and Israel are responsible for war crimes. Israel, as the regional superpower and a democratic nation should just be held to a higher standard.
Also the reporters, which rarely reported, said that they where be used as human shields and that the Palestinians were firing rockets from their hotel.
Damn...Dave doesn't have a clue in the world. But this discussion was wonderful in its civility and transparency.
Cenk did a good job refereeing this discussion.
Yeah, I'm amazed he kept everything cool between everyone.
I feel like I lose brain cells whenever Dave speaks lmao
ah don't worry that's just your handicapped brain that's been severely damaged from virtue-signaling
Early on in the debate Dave condemns Hamas policies of firing rockets and building tunnels as immoral. Then when it comes to holding Israel to the same standard over bombing schools Dave says 'there are nor rules in war' 'lets face it'.
When you apply moral principles to both sides in a war it's called justice when you only apply it to one side it's called Hypocrisy, this says a lot about his position and his moral character: Dave adhere's to liberal beliefs only when it suits him.
I agree, I had a lot of respect for Dave before I saw this video.
Harley Burden
I didn't lose any respect for him. disagree with him vehemently, but I respect his courage to disagree with everyone in the room.
***** While it may have been difficult to walk into a one sided debate, it does not make him any less hypocritical. The hypocrisy is what made me lose some respect for him.
Harley Burden
I hear you.
Harley Burden agreed
Interesting to read the comments, all the people hating on Dave for defending Israel without pointing out anything he said that was false. so let's recap:
Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005 = TRUE
Israel left greenhouses and farms (worth 10s of millions of dollars) that were then destroyed = TRUE
Blockade took effect in mid 2007 after rockets began hitting Israel = TRUE
Hamas won one election then publicly executed all opposition parties = TRUE
Hamas hasn't held an election since 2006 = TRUE
IDF is the only army that sends txt/calls/warning mortars before bombing = TRUE
Hamas has told Gazans that the warnings are fake and that they better stay put in targeted locations = TRUE
3 UN schools were found to have caches of rockets = TRUE
Tunnels and weapons caches have been found in Mosques and schools = TRUE
Hamas either rejected or breached 5 consecutive ceasefires = TRUE
Let me recap how those peace talks went; We won't kill your daughters and sons anymore, but we'll still control them by not having our military back out of Gaza.
informationwarfare "Israel exists entirely on stolen land = TRUE"
FALSE.
Some are illegal settlements, but the rest was peaceful immigration before 1947.
"Israel murders civilians = TRUE"
Yes, but so does Hamas.....
informationwarfare
"Hamas has killed hardly any civilians on the Israeli side,"
LOL, you were already getting your ass kicked by Lachlan Allen, but when you typed out this brain-fart you lost all your credibility.
The guy on the right at the very end is delusional. It's a genocide with indiscriminate war crimes towards the Palestinian people. Why are you defending this? UGHHH I'm so frustrated.
love this video of Dave Rubin kicking regressive ass. #MexicansWithIsrael
Dave sounded like a Republican who justifies war in any way possible.
Little did you know just how right you would be.
I like how Dave's primary argument for Israel's War Crimes is "War Sucks"...
NO Dave, a War Crime is a War Crime whether it be Israel, Palestine, USA, etc. etc. and any nation that commits a War Crime will be condemned by the International Community, and rightfully so.
Cenk hit it on the head when he said that Israel is in a position where it doesn't have any substantial threat, especially at this particular point in time, and in spite of all that, Israel continues to kill CIVILIANS! Society (Including ALL Faiths) need to wrap their heads around the idea that a Civilian could be ANY one of US! It could be our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, etc. etc. and any Civilian life lost due to war is WRONG!
Lastly, I urge ALL Palestinians from around the world to WAKE UP and learn from History. The only way peace will be achieved is if you elect educated leaders who aren't polarized one way or another.
Here from The Michael Brooks Show!
When Dave said if anyone has left messages or leaflets of an impending doom. The answer is yes in many air raids in world war 2.
Lmaoo yeah thats what I was thinking exactly!
dave's effort in defending Israel is disgusting.
Dave is like Gay Jesus. He's preformed a miracle. Never have I seen so many conservative TYT viewers cheer for a homosexual. This is fucking amazing.
Do you have to be a conservative to be on the side of Israel on this? I held this same position even when I was a liberal. Bill Maher and many other liberals also hold the same position.
H1TMANactual
Personally I think it's stupid both sides are dishonest and it has to be a split issue. 'Ham Ass' are a bunch of terrorists and the IDF is firing missiles like they just don't give any fucks. 'Ham Ass' needs to stop picking fights and the I Don't Fuckingcares needs to stop killing babies. That's the truth.
Rubin was awesome in this, actually bringing across a different point. That in itself deserves applause. However, irrespective of Cenk disagreement, he hosted a great debate. That deserves applause as well.
Way too harsh on Dave, and Steve Oh's point is sort of a double standard... Killing children is WRONG, but killing adults is also WRONG.
wow 40 minute video?
Nice TYT
Ana and jimmy tried to put up a poker face tonight as they barely made one comment the entire show. Ana, we could see through that face, you know absolutely nothing and just follow whatever the pop "progressive" opinion is. As for Jimmy, nobody expects anything to come out of him. He is the show's clown.
You def. added alot of substance to the debate. Please Tell us more.
Unfortunately, your comment hits closer to the truth than anyone here would be willing to admit.
Jimmy's body language was telling.
BVargas78 Sorry, but Jimmy just whores himself to the audience. He never passes up an opportunity to manufacture fake outrage if there's something to be pissed about.
they weighed in, maybe you should have watched more than 2 minutes before blabbering your worthless opinion.
You should get more people on the show who you seriously disagree with, but who are still willing to have a reasonable discussion: it's good for both sides to be heard.
Also you should be less afraid to criticise Israel, I know you'll get an unbelievable amount of criticism, but they largely get a free ride in the press and it's a disgrace.
You're confused
Jordan J
What about?
+crazytosh +crazytosh "you should be less afraid to criticise Israel, I know you'll get an unbelievable amount of criticism, but they largely get a free ride in the press and it's a disgrace."
u got it backwards
+Jacob Rwanda What city are you in and does it have a Jewish Defence League
+Jacob Rwanda go on JDL Canada and contact Meir Weinstein
8:12 - It's almost like Jimmy Dore is playing hangman with a drawing of Dave Rubin.
I'm trying to see Dave's side, but when Cenk says _"If those were Jewish kids they would not have bombed the school to get Hamas"_ and Dave's response is just _"Yes, war sucks"_, I don't see that as a valid counter-argument because if you accept that as a valid justification then that creates a very real, non-fallacious slippery slope. If someone like Dave accepts a vague statement like "war sucks" as a justification for things which he probably agrees are immoral (e.g. valuing the lives of one child over another based on where they were born), then he is basically opening a flood gate that makes any action taken during a war morally permissible. One side could torture and rape all the kids on the other side and someone could just say _"war sucks"_ because its such a vague 'anything goes' justification. I think you should draw red lines based on some solid reasoning about what you're going to view as morally permissible in 'war', instead of just throwing your hands up in the air and saying anything goes because its war and war sucks.
Dave is just making excuses for Israel's barbarism, and colonial policies.
SHAME.
You need to accept and understand nuances and Wars.
the fact Israel is stronger does not mean it has to be silent on thousands of attacks towards it. Israeli kids at the south have been hiding almost daily in shelters, suffer from PTSD and what not. Why this should be their reality?
Cenk in this videos: "BUILD THE WALL"
Dave all the way on this one.
***** lol, ight Lucifer
***** I dont listen to Satan
***** Or you know... Lucifer is Satan.
Jimmy Dore is a badass lol.
Dave Rubin is awesome, well done!
"Erupts into honesty" LMAOOOOOOOOOO TYT are the weirdest fuckin people....
Thank God for Dave Rubin. Otherwise this would have been another TYT circle-jerk. Look at Cenk Uygur's embarrassed face that he couldn't get away with spouting his usual straw-man. XD
THANKS GOD FOR CHILDREN GENOCIDE ADVOCATE? HE IS DEFENDING BIGOTS.
Israel according to dave is just trying to defend there benign state, which is a lie israel has repeatedly broken there agreements, like the 2012 seize fire which called for an easing of the siege which never happened. Hamas shouldn't attack cvillians but they are entitled according to international law to resist occupation. Gaza has always been occupied without any break, dave is wrong about that.
And i, sadly, disagree 100% with Dave, because his premise is a false one. A nation's right to self-determination doesn’t translate in a right to “annihilate your neighbor”. And let’s be honest here: Israel isn’t “just defending itself”. The argument of self defense is completely fallacious. If Hamas/palestinians want to get rid the Levant of israelites, the feeling is mutual on the israeli side, so neither of them get the moral high ground on that. And disputes on which side is more justifiable are nonsensical. The only difference between the two is that Israel is the only one with the means to get rid of palestinians for good, and they've been doing just that for the past decades. Because genocide, drop by drop, is less conspicuous.
I’m still waiting to see a bilateral agreement for a peaceful resolution, starting with Israel returning part of the land to the palestinians and freeing Gaza, but i guess i will be waiting in vain, as the palestinians slowly disappear, and the israelites (and all of their supporters) continue to praise themselves as more civilized than the “barbaric and terrorists arabs”.
Cenk was so nice to make sure everyone didn't gang up on Dave.
It's not a school as soon as it becomes a weapons cache
***** It's irrelevant wether there were kids or not, as soon as you store weapons in a civil building it becomes a target and needs to be destroyed. It isn't Israel's fault that Hamas decided to store it's weapons in a school.
By your logic if there are kids next to a nuke going to be launched in to a civillian area we can't bomb it.
True. He called Rubin a Jew to shut down his argument, ignoring all his logic and reasoning, trying to appeal to his emotions. But Dave was too smart for that, he saw right through that bullshit! Israel has a right to defend herself! Cenk acts like Israel is the one preventing peace! How incredibly dishonest!!
Bryant Kauk Wisconsin isn't in the middle of a war like this and they did more than just put weapons there. The schools and beside the schools are where they even set up rockets to attack. Putting some guns inside and setting up rockets to launch are a bit different.
Cenk Technically is Semetic. Arabs are also semetic.
Steve and jimmy came in with such strong, superb points they quite literally left Dave speechless, pretending he didn't understand or acting like he did catch it, and playing dumb while he though of something to say. I agree with another commenter. I want to see more of jimmy and Steve.
If you allow the enemy to shoot rockets indiscriminately from a "safe zone" because there are human shields and you refuse to attack that area, they will only use that area to launch rockets. Maybe they should send in ground forces to take that area out, but to say "never attack it" is moronic and is wishful thinking by people that love to arm chair general from the safety of the United States.
***** Why do people bring up the UN as if they have any real power? Israel and several other countries do not agree with many of the UN's rules. Rules are useless unless there is enforcement.
Are you going to go into Israel and arrest their leadership and put them on trial? No, and no one else is ether. So drop the nonsense "its a war crime" war crimes are only enforced on the loser. Do you think the US or UK was punished for bombing German cities? Yes the UK also targeted civilians during WW2 many people forget or do not realize that ether.
Not to mention what the Russians did to the German people. Where they punished? Nope.
War crimes do not really exist.
Evirthewarrior Yeah, sure let's accept the UN's stand when it agrees with creating Israel and then immediately disregard it when Palestine wants the same recognition as a state.
There is a civilized option but Israel knows it would lose that legal battle if ever it was brought before the International Court of Justice.
uzumakiangelus Why would Israel ever go to court? Who is going to force them? Is Dog the Bounty Hunter going to go get their leadership and bring them in?
***** I can pull out lots of isolated incidents in a war and claim "see how bad X country is"
"If you allow the enemy to shoot rockets indiscriminately from a "safe zone" because there are human shields and you refuse to attack that area, they will only use that area to launch rockets."
In this case, it was a UN school. There were no Hamas militants there, thus no human shields. You're blatantly making stuff up or transferring what happened in other areas to this particular situation because it's convenient to your argument. If they did use that area to launch rockets, assuming for some crazy reason that the UN and the all the Palestinian civilians there with families to look out for didn't do anything to stop it, it still doesn't justify dropping missiles on the place. Send in some soldiers (at the risk of some of their lives) to clear out the place. By not doing so, Israel is saying their soldiers are more important than Palestinian civilians.
"Maybe they should send in ground forces to take that area out, but to say "never attack it" is moronic and is wishful thinking by people that love to arm chair general from the safety of the United States." "
Nobody said never attack it. You're creating strawmen. If you can't form a coherent argument without misrepresenting other peoples' positions don't waste our time with your comments. But they shouldn't attack it if there are no militants there at all, and even if there are, there are alternatives to bombings. In a hostage crisis negotiation or controlled execution are applied. If they can't surgically target the militants and have to resort to bombing the whole place and killing everyone, they're either an incredibly incompentent army or war criminals.
Also, the UN is real, it does matter, and it should be respected. The UN created Israel in the first place. Apparently nobody thought that it was irrelevant then. The Jewish people got what they wanted from the UN and now they act like it's in their way to the point that bombing its facilities is okay.
And don't lecture us on "war crimes aren't real". WWII was a massive war with huge casualties on all sides. Germany and Japan had already annexed several countries before it even started, were ready to obliterate anyone in their way, and had the firepower to do so. It was quite literally a "It's us or them" situation. Hamas has a bunch of crappy rockets that have succeeded in killing a grand total of 3 Israeli civilians during this whole conflict, while Israel has modern technology and enough firepower to flatten all of Gaza if they wanted to. Cenk covered this point. If it's fairly even, the rules don't matter. But when one side clearly dominates the other, it should show some restraint. Israel is not under threat of imminent destruction and besides, like I said, there are other ways to take out Hamas without shelling entire families.
I actually applaud Dave for voicing his thoughts amongst a panel of people who disagree with him. I also heavily disagree with him but I respect him for doing it.
Everyone else pretty much nailed it. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it. Objectively what Israel is doing wrong, even with what Hamas is doing.
Hamas has a right to fight back
why can I only hear Micheal brooks voice coming out of Daves mouth? stop doing Micheals impression of you Dave
Spell Michael correctly. Then I'll have time for you.
What brought me here was all the comments saying that Cenk fired Dave because they got in an argument. After watching this, I found Cenk to be a wonderful debate opponent. In the end he acted as a moderator and I thought that was admirable. He can get very irrational in some debates and it was nice to see him actually show that he really is an intelligent, educated man. I would watch TYT a whole lot more if there were more of this Cenk and less of the yelling, bully Cenk.
Dave disgusted me.
Dave made some great points. It's not easy debating against four people, and I liked that he stayed calm and rational during the entire segment. Jimmy Dore acted way too smug here. Bombing schools is not ok, nobody in the segment was saying otherwise, but to say there are rules to war is just so naive. Like Cenk pointed out at the end, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden are all horrible events where children, and innocent civilians were killed. I'm not pro Israeli or pro Palestinian, because this isn't a sporting event where you pick a team, but we definitely need more people like Dave when talking about this issue. Let's take a step back and look at the entire picture before letting our emotions guide the way we feel. That's something Dave, and Cenk were clearly doing, and something Jimmy and Steve were clearly not doing.
and it's that kind of reasoning that will end up creating the next generation of hamas.
***** How ? Being reasonable, and not letting emotions guide the way you feel will create the next generation of Hamas ? I think you'll find it's the opposite of that. What Israel is doing is a war crime. It should be condemned, and nobody should support what they're doing, but when you're talking about this issue you shouldn't let emotions guide the way you feel. I was watching Reza Aslan on Bill Maher the other night, and he was the only reasonable and sane person on that panel, because he stayed calm. Bill Maher, and the other two people were defending Israel with bullshit arguments and were clearly letting emotions get in the way of rational thinking. I'm not saying I agree with everything Dave said, but he made some good points, and Steve and Jimmy contributed nothing to the conversation apart from "What If" scenarios.
Yes, if the US was in a 50 year conflict with terrorist and they were hiding in schools full of their civilians while launching missiles at our schools, we would bomb them. If you allow human shields to be useful then they will use MORE, not less, human shields.
+Ryan R What you need to mention is that the United States has been in violation of international law for those 50 years via and illegal occupation. Strange how you omitted that detail.
Ryan R So why are you attempting to justify certain actions on a moral ground? If might makes right then why did you use the word 'terrorist'? Why do you even care about 'human shields' when 'it's a matter of who is in charge'?
cenk - "build a high wall, it works"
Cenk is just another lying Islamist
cenk always making excuses for Hamas, and always blaming israel
Dave, if anything stops civil strife and calls for violence then it's prosperity. As soon as Palestinians start doing trade and getting richer they'll soon stop supporting groups like Hamas. In fact, once their wealth is put in jeopardy by groups like Hamas then they'll soon lose support.
Can you povide a link when they did a story on it?
"Build a massive wall" - Cenk Uygur, 2014.
Cenk 2016 -" bring down the apartheid wall" Such an hypocrisy
About Cenk: Another example of a Taqiya dishonest tribal Muslim. He might like bacon, but he is still a political Islamist deep down. It is so clear.
Pretending the Turks were right during the Cyprus thing (even to this day they occupy it).
And then calling for a TURKISH WALL in another country, while attacking Trump for wanting a wall between the USA and Mexico. Plain evil.
Steve and Jimmy are pretty grounded blokes, I would like to see them more on the show..
by grounded you mean ignorant dicks who submit there opinion as the only possible moral one on every segment they talk on? lol they even made Cenk look reasonable.
Steve comes in at the end with the true view. Targeting civilians is wrong, and as Jimmy says, it's a war crime. Also, the asymmetrical situation is raised by Cenk and unless the asymmetrical context is recognized any discussion about Israel's justification is prejudiced. Israel is not facing an existential question because nothing the Palestinians can do--or have attempted to do--could ever conceivably destroy the existence of Israel. Dave's argument that Israel is facing an existential threat that justifies Israel's conduct aginst the Palestinians is just delusional.
STOP FIGHTING!!!! ENOUGH ALREADY!!! CALL A TRUCE !!!!!!!! THE WORLD HAS HAD ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE OF A WAR!!!!!!!! NO MORE!!!!!!!!
In case you were not paying attention 3 years ago, let me remind you.
The very start of the video: A TRUCE WAS CALLED, for 72 hours. And, Hamas broke it after 1 hour.
I just saw clips of this from Kyle Kulinski. Who else?
Indeed. It's amazing how, despite the time, it could've easily aired today and resonate with people as if those atrocious actions were recent.
Reminds me a little of that, _'history is doomed to repeat itself'_ saying.
Also, Rubin is a complete🤡 in how he constantly seeks validation and approval for his broken logic, rather than it coming from an intellectually honest and sincere place(among *many* other things). Dude is the literal definition of a follower and reminds me too much of Ben.
~ I suppose, that too, is history repeating itself.
thats why i believe TYT will one day be the biggest source of truth and news in the world!! thank you for a thought provoking, honest debate, even though i disagree with alot of what you have said!
Kudos to Cenk at the end. It takes a big man to give credit to someone he disagrees with and recognize his position.
I have long proposed a deal virtually identical to the one that Cenk suggests, but the fact is that he is completely wrong in many of his arguments about the general conflict.
Two thing need to be said:
1) The "occupation" was not the original sin in this situation--it was Israel's Arab neighbors' attempts at ethnically cleansing Israel in 1948 that started this entire shitstorm and displaced the Palestinians. Israel didn't pick up arms first, and has regularly laid down arms to create peace (ex. giving the Sinai back to Egypt to create peace).
2) It may sound very difficult to justify bombing schools and UN sites, but it really isn't. Even the UN itself admits that several of those schools are being used to store and fire missiles into Israel, thus negating their status as a sanctuary. If the Palestinians don't like those shelters getting bombed, they simply need to kick out the Hamas terrorists who are turning them into targets.
So your saying that even though Israel occupied the area in 1948 was not the cause of the issues that are taking place till this day?
Leo Blight No, Israel was built upon an ex-Ottoman, ex-British wastelend that was primarily composed of deserts and malaria-ridden swamps, and was created by the UN in 1948--just as Jordan and Palestine were created, never mind all the other ex-colonial powers on earth. As the incoming settlers drained the swamps and made the deserts habitable, immigrants from Syria, the Jordanian territories and Egypt moved into the area and lived alongside the Jews. In 1948, when Israel's independence from Great Britain was granted (they owned the land), the surrounding Arab nations invaded, but were repelled and decided to take what would have been Palestine as a consolation prize.
Israel exists and, regardless of how much you hate it, will continue to exist into the future--deal with it and try proposing solutions that prop up the Palestinians rather than just fruitlessly trying to tear down Israel.
typical pro israel propaganda.
As for the second point, its kinda hard to do that when Hamas has most of the weapons in Gaza.
So by that logic, it would be OK for the police to shoot hostages in order to kill a bank robber, right?
No. It isn't. It doesn't matter how many rockets are being fired from a school, bombing kids isn't the answer. EVER. It is stupid and counterproductive. Israelis (and by extension, Americans) will rue the day their government chose this path. There is nothing down this path but perpetual warfare and destruction.
Which, if you're a defense contractor selling arms to both sides, that must be great.
jimmy dore so angry his point of view is shown to be crap right in front of his eyes.
The headline I'm waiting for...
"Palestinians in Gaza Attack/Destroy/Disable/Picket/Protest rocket launcher placed in their neighborhood"
There were some protest against hamas. Hamas police shot most of the protesters.
Hamas is the main trouble, not israel, israel's army is the most sane and nice army in the world
Your opinion not mine
Yes, Dave does come off looking like a tool on this topic. You can't justify the unjustifiable (the killing of 80% civilians, to include women & children), if the tables were turned no country in the world would go for it. It is only because it is happening to Palestinians is why it is allowed to continue as is.
Any other country would unleash every rocket they have in such a situation. Jordan killed over 20,000 in a very similar situation. Lebanon turned a very similar situation into a HUGE civil war. Pakistan killed over 3 MILLION Bangladeshis over far less than this.
You are plain wrong. Islam has no right to try to murder non-Muslims. You will learn this eventually.
I agree with Dave on this one. Really admire Cenk and the way he went about disagreeing.
For serious, every time Steve O speaks, I love it.
the war today is about casualties. you got more casualties? - you win.
just let that sink in.
William Faulkner EXACTLY in publicity.
that is what i`m talkign about to the word.
75% civilian casualties = victory.
LLlap maneuver warfare is America’s warfare
Wow. Holy shit, people. We have all just seen a unicorn. It's very rare indeed when The Young Turks puts out a video where both sides of an argument are represented.
I would enjoy watching this show if they always had a dissenter like Dave to even put the playing field. Instead, they're stuck in their echo chambers.
A person like that wouldn't last. The other team members take this shit VERY personally, after a few disagreements on air they would start to really resent that opposing viewpoint and make things very uncomfortable for them. They aren't mature enough to handle someone that doesn't agree with them over a long period of time. As a result they are surrounded by folks who think EXACTLY THE SAME, which isn't a healthy workplace which is why they are loosing subscribing members. I know I cancelled my membership because I was sick of it.
Cenk was fair in THIS case (and also condescending as hell, as he always is but I digress). How about the literally hundreds of other videos where, as said above, the people in TYT only invite people who agree with them on everything, mis-represent views of others to a scandalous degree (Sam Harris for example), their obsession with distorting every single thing Trump says (I mean you might not like Trump but there is a line... that line is called reality). Rubin left because, like bryan said, disagreements like this started happening more and more, because TYT clearly has a narrative that only caters to the very far-left audience (aka young voters who go A LOT on youtube) that involves exploiting white guilt and denying Muslim extremism, among other things. Dave Rubin didn't want to put up with that hipocrisy and he left. That's my take on it.
We're not having a debate on the morality of profiling muslims because you've lost on that one. To think its the moral thing to do to treat an entire group of people the way you want to treat them based upon the actions of a few is, to be frank, repugnant. And I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess you're only going to apply that standard to muslims...unless you're being intellectually consistent, and acknowledge the statistics that show the vast majority of mass shootings in America are committed by whites, so maybe they should face more scrutiny when buying guns than other races. You'll also acknowledge the statistics that when it comes to violent attacks, since 9/11, right-wingers not only HAVE killed more people than radical islamists, they've TRIED to kill more people. In total, there are more incidents of right-wing terrorism in America than there are incidents of islamic terrorism. So right-wingers should face more scrutiny too, MORE so than muslims, right? Anyone who's connected to militias, sovereign citizens groups, ANY relation to neo nazis or the KKK or anyone who has any white supremacist leanings, gun enthusiasts who shoot at targets of politicians, If this is about the FACTS, and not just how you feel about muslims. I'm taking a wild guess here that you've got a million excuses why those groups shouldn't be targeted, but muslims should.
The more pressing matter though is how Rubin, Harris and their followers LIE and completely misrepresent Cenk's criticisms of their views. Instead of responding to that, you basically gave excuse after excuse saying "well, muslims ARE more violent, so we DO have to treat them differently", WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING THAT YOU'RE SAYING. We're not misrepresenting anything. We're taking your words, the words of Sam Harris, and quoting them in context. Your message is very clear, and its despicable.
You want to have a conversation about the merits and morality of racial/religious profiling...well you're WRONG, but that's another discussion altogether. But you can't keep pushing this false narrative that Sam Harris is being mischaracterized when his words have been taken straight from his writings and put on the screen for people to read themselves. You people can't say he's not talking about all muslims, like Rubin has tried to claim, when Harris writes an article titled "In Defense of Profiling" and says "We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim, and we should be honest about it." When you say he's being mischaracterized, you are either purposefully ignorant of the statements he has made, or you are LYING. Take your pic.
Dave left on his own when he didn't agree with them on Islam. No one kicked him out.
lol, I love coming back to old posts, especially ones that made bad predictions:
Le Pen lost.
Conservatives in the UK just lost big.
And just a reminder about Trump, fewer people voted for him than Clinton, and his approval rating is currently in the gutter.
Are you guys "tired of winning" yet?
Yeah, no. Dave, you lost me on this one.
I remember you, the Hugo Chavez fan.
Wow.....that's a good memory. Hi. :-)
Yeah lets listen to the guy that like Chavez likes Russia and Gaddafi.
BTW I'm not a fan of Russia.lol
I love Jimmy's point: When a bank robber has a gun to a hostage's head, and is shooting at police cars, the police don't open fire killing both the criminal and the hostage. They find cover, take their time, assess the situation, and do what ever they can to surgically remove the threat while leaving the hostage unharmed. Why is it ok that Israel is metaphorically opening fire on both the criminal and the hostage? They say it themselves: "Hamas uses human shields." So what does Israel do? They kill the "shields." What ever happened to ground troops, and special forces? Israel is suppose to have some of the best special forces in the world. Why wouldn't you have them infiltrate these buildings and target Hamas Military rather than peppering the area with rockets, and killing anyone in the perimeter? There is no excuse. Factor in the fact that Israel is targeting beaches, refugee facilities, and shopping markets, and It all becomes abundantly clear: Israel just wants to kill Palestinians.
This was absolutely brilliant. I hope you're doing well after all these years!
Shoutout to that DICE battlefield font
I just came here to see what Jimmy Dore was gonna say lol
Dave is right.
Steve needs to be in front of the camera more often. He makes the best point in the whole discussion at 29:07. Jimmy's follow-up along the same lines was great too, and further clarified why Dave's position is so wrong.
I thought Dave was pretty solid with his points until the last one where Cenk brings up the scenario about Hamas firing rockets from a Mexican school full with kids and the US having no second thoughts to attacking that school. Dave was OK with this. But if there were Israeli kids in that Gaza school (or to keep it US related, American kids in the Mexican school), Dave would be OK to go ahead and put childrens lives on the lines because he's on the other side. That's horrible. All children of every background are paramount and for Dave to reduce the importance of one group of kids is nauseating.
+Commodore Clarksonio it all comes down to math. what if it was undoubtedly true that killing 3 kids will bring eternal happiness to all humankind forever. wouldn`t you consider killing them?
+Commodore Clarksonio He defended war crimes committed by children as long as it was by Israel.
A countries first obligation is to defend "its" people not anyone elses. So their priority would be to save "their" people, something Hamas should start to consider
Except there were no rockets from any school in Gaza and no militants around it...
+Feras Al Hati here is footage of Hamas firing from schools, and other heavily CIVILIAN populated areas
www.idfblog.com/operationgaza2014/#Unmaps
It's not a war, it's genocide.
This is nothing by your Islamic standards, and you know it. Muslims have murdered over 14 million other Muslims since WW2.
If the Yezidis had the IDF, they would have carpet bombed the lot of you.
Any other country would unleash every rocket they have in such a situation. Jordan killed over 20,000 in a very similar situation. Lebanon turned a very similar situation into a HUGE civil war. Pakistan killed over 3 MILLION Bangladeshis over far less than this.
I wonder how Rubin would like living under occupation? I think he believes occupation is something equivalent to being grounded with no oppression, fear, hostile military, widespread 4-6-8 hour checkpoints which make life impossible (impossible to go to school/college, go to college, hospital on time even if dying), no consequences when a drunk Israeli soldier decides to beat your kids & basically do whatever they want w/o consequences, etc
I wonder how Rubin would like his son or daughter to be murdered just because of something that another American or Jewish group did?
I wonder how Rubin would like his house destroyed in order to being a [pick religion] only settlement?
I wonder how Rubin would like living under an oppressor who does not let anything in or out in a prison where your calories are counted so you don't get too much?
I don't despise David's arguments as much as I despise all the hateful comments towards him...
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU
PEOPLE? He's a human being!
??? someone who tries to justify killing children in a UN school isnt fucking human.
The other people on the panel were like wtf? He is disagreeing with Cenk?
fetusima O yep😂😂
Of the best best episodes I have watched so far. A good long debate, more of that, please.