The two of you in a conversation is so inspirational. Listening to how each of you share your human experiences is a real learning prospect if each of us opens our minds and hearts.
The actual horror Coleman, is that people ARE NOT aghast! There are protests going on in this country, on college campuses with young people raising their fists chanting things like "They've got tanks, we've got hang gliders, glory to the resistance fighters!" This protest at George Mason University to name one, there are others around the country. There's seems to be a kind of cognitive dissonance happening. In France there was a similar situation, large crowds of people protesting in alliance with the attackers..The interesting thing is, back when 9/11 happened, the reverse hatred was happening, and Muslims in NY were afraid of being attacked, now it's the Jews....Humans are so fickle! It's pathetic.
No, it is tribal. They bathe in the narrative. To them it is normal. Those chanting those stupid lyrics must be wokes. They live in a world of oppressors and oppressed and don't even see people.. The must also believe that the Hamas is good, as it is fighting for the oppressed ones. In France the protests were likely members of the Far left led by their antisemitic idol Melanchon. I hate him. The Far-right is probably anti-semitic too but their enlightened thinker, is a Jew. or the Algerian, jobless, lost youth. I don't like the word pathetic. Personally, I am more outraged by US conservatives who have no litmit in their exploitation of tragic events. They did it again, exploiting the massacres to attack Biden and joking about him at the same time.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye ..Of course I do, and always have!! My sadness though will never educate the uneducated about the fact that radical groups like Isis and Hamas are the key reason the problem continues without pause or solution. It is absolutely necessary that we understand Islam and it's history and practices! Western nations take too simplistic a view, and have very little understanding of what the central drive of these radicals are, nor are we aware of their influence, power and control of the Palestinian communities at large. We lump them all into one basket "The Palestinians". We think it's just the Israelis subjugating, we need to take a much closer look. Please look into the books of, and listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to get clarity on the subject.
Thank you Coleman for being one of the few rational, level-headed people with a platform. I don't think I can overstate how important it is that you're having these conversations and pushing back against some of the worst thinking that is, unfortunately, out there.
Hamas are terrorist and Israel is worse! You are also incorrect about IDF using civilians as human shields. They do use their civilians as human shields . They take advantage of it to get the permission of the international community to do whatever they want to do.
You can’t be rational when you don’t know the facts. These guys are ignorant of both the history of this conflict and Israeli tactics. They’re clearly unaware the IDF has an official policy of deliberately targeting civilians as both a show of force and because they hold them responsible for the actions of their “leaders.” Google it, it’s called the Dahiya Doctrine. Then google “The Dahiya strategy by Yaron London,” and statements from Chief of the General Staff Gadi Eisenkot and Major General Giora Eiland on the topic. You’ll see what I’m saying is true. They openly discuss Israel’s policy of bombing civilians. It’s easy to condemn Hamas, what they did was evil and horrible. So why is it so hard to condemn Israel? Just because they mutilate civilians with a laser guided bomb dropped from a $50 million warplane doesn’t make it any different. Anyone with a moral compass should understand that. And don’t pretend this is justified by Saturday, this conflict started 75 years ago and has been raging since the aughts. Then these guys talk about how Hamas is such an outlier for reveling in the deaths of civilians, apparently unaware that the IDF has been posting pictures of entire blocks of leveled apartment buildings on their Twitter feed as some twisted triumphal cry. Cheering at the pictures of dead Palestinian civilians. Who do you think is under the rubble? Hamas fights are all hidden in tunnels. They claim Israel would never use civilians as human shields even though they do just that in the West Bank. They send settlers out into dangerous territory to annex Palestinian land, putting them in harm’s way, knowing it will stir conflict and give them a casus belli for rolling in IDF forces to kill more Palestinians. These guys care so little about the truth they say that whether babies were beheaded is a “pedantic detail.” First of all, it was a complete lie that has been confirmed as such by several sources including the White House. Second, if that’s a lie then any person capable of thinking critically should be able to extrapolate and wonder what else is a lie. It’s actually an important part of the story of how Israel disseminates propaganda. Btw, what do you think happens when a building is collapsed on a child, or a bomb explodes next to them? You think they aren’t decapitated? Do you think they aren’t blown to bits with tiny fingers and toes and arms and legs strewn about everywhere? That’s what Israel is doing right now, massacring babies and grandmas on a scale that makes Hamas’ terrorism look like amateur hour. And they’re doing it intentionally, anyone who can’t see that has their head in the sand. Having established that the tactics and attitudes of both sides is basically the same, the real question comes down to WHY they’re doing it. Hamas is doing it because they’ve been driven insane by being confined within an open air prison run by Israel their whole lives. Israel is doing it simply because they refuse any attempt at making peace; they’ve turned down every peace accord put forth by the UN even when virtually every other nation agrees with it. Because they demand all of the area be an ethno-state that is “only for Jews,” as Netanyahu said proudly. Guess what, maintaining an ethno-state requires ethnic cleansing, it’s not rocket science. That is the mission of the Israeli government, as it has been for 75 years now. They are perpetrating an ethnic cleansing and their treatment of the Palestinians under an apartheid regime has been barbaric beyond comprehension. READ about the conditions there. LISTEN to the people who live there. LEARN how Palestinians do not have citizenship, or representation, or freedom of movement. How Gaza is was put on a borderline starvation diet, how the West Bank has been carved into 150+ cantons with checkpoints everywhere to harass, humiliate, and unfairly imprison Palestinians. They can’t even marry an Israeli. Btw, the are a huge number of Israelis who agree with this and see it very clearly. Haaretz, the biggest paper in Israel, has authored numerous op-eds laying the blame for this at Netanyahu’s feet for antagonizing and annexing Palestinians so viscously. The discourse within Israel is nothing like it is in the west, because their writers aren’t afraid of being called anti-Semitic. These guys don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, nor do they seem capable of engaging in academic discussion or critical thinking. Take off your dunce cap and put on your thinking hat. Go read the writings of Israelis who are against these cruel actions and you will get an educated perspective instead of listening to these guys regurgitate hasbara at you. Read what Yeshayahu Leibowitz wrote about Israel being on the brink of becoming “Judeo-Nazis.” Remember what happened in the wake of 9/11 when America made the same mistakes. Study, do your homework, research everything I’ve pointed out. Don’t rely on talking heads with podcasts to deliver you an answer. These are not serious people, and it is a very serious topic.
Both of you may want to interview Arab-Israelis, like Yahaya Mahamid!!! There's no Palestine.There is Gaza. And, of 160 Disputed Territories in the world, the formerly occupied West Bank by Jordan and Judea & Samaria is ONE of 160. There are Arabs who re-branded themselves as "Palestinian" after 1967 (they refused to be called Palestinian prior). The Woke Army bag of lies has re-branded the old "Slaughter the Jews" as "Free Palestine." You'll thank yourselves for reading Asra Nomani's, "Woke Army." To understand the "Holy Hate, Love of Death" Islamist doctrine, read Cynthia Farahat's "Secret Apparatus." 1500 Israelis have already been killed (10/15/23). Just another lie, Gaza is not as crowded as Tel Aviv and the Hamas leadership live in palaces.. The "proportionality" BS has exhausted itself. Hamas is just a branch of the Submission Bros. Watch the film "Timbuktu's" to get an idea and "Habermann," to see what happened to ethnic Germans at the end of WWII. Taken from Carter's book, the apartheid idea is BS. If anything the Arabs have cleansed Jews in their lands (Watch "The Forgotten Refugees" on Vimeo). Carter's context was a future possibility, in case the Jews annex Judea, Samaria and the former West Bank and Israel stop being a Jewish-majority state. Gotta stop talking about this BS. Middle East scholar, Dr Kedar has a brilliant idea, "the Arab-Palestinian Emirates," Right now it may be too risky to try, however.
I am not sure whether he gave an accurate account of what happened at the kibbutz. There are different reports as well. ruclips.net/video/3cPeRSVgUpQ/видео.html
What truth? These guys are unbelievably ignorant of both the history of this conflict and Israeli tactics. They’re completely unaware the IDF has an official policy of deliberately targeting civilians as both a show of force and because they hold them responsible for the actions of their “leaders.” Google it, it’s called the Dahiya Doctrine. Then google “The Dahiya strategy by Yaron London,” and statements from Chief of the General Staff Gadi Eisenkot or Major General Giora Eiland on the topic. You’ll see everything I’m saying is true. They discuss it openly. Then these guys talk about how Hamas is so strange for reveling in the deaths of civilians, apparently unaware that the IDF has been posting pictures of entire blocks of leveled apartment buildings on their Twitter feed as some twisted triumphal war cry. Ffs, they care so little about the truth they say that whether or not babies were beheaded is a “pedantic detail.” First of all, it was a complete and utter lie that has been confirmed as such by several sources including the White House. Second, if that’s a lie then any person capable of thinking critically should be able to extrapolate and wonder what else is a lie. It’s actually a very important part of the story of how Israel disseminates propaganda. Btw, what do you think happens when a building is collapsed on a child, or a bomb explodes next to them? You think they aren’t decapitated? Do you think they aren’t blown to bits with tiny fingers and toes and arms and legs strewn about everywhere? That’s what Israel is doing right now, massacring babies and grandmas on a scale that makes Hamas’ terrorism look like amateur hour. And they’re doing it intentionally, anyone who can’t see that has their head in the sand. It’s easy to condemn Hamas, what they did was evil and horrible. So why is it so hard to condemn Israel? Just because they mutilate civilians with a laser guided bomb dropped from a $50 million airplane doesn’t make it any different. Anyone with a moral compass should understand that. Having established that the tactics and attitudes of both sides is basically the same, the real discussion comes down to WHY they’re doing it. Hamas is doing it because they’ve been driven insane by living in an open air abattoir their whole lives. Israel is doing it simply because they refuse any attempt at making peace. Because they demand all of the area be an ethno-state that is “only for Jews,” as Netanyahu said proudly. Guess what, maintaining an ethno-state requires ethnic cleansing, it’s not rocket science. That is the mission of the Israeli government, as it has been for 75 years. They are perpetuating a genocide and their treatment of the Palestinians has been barbaric beyond comprehension. READ about the conditions there. LISTEN to the people who live there. This conflict did not start on Saturday. Btw, the are a huge number of Israelis who agree with this and see it very clearly. Haaretz, the biggest paper in Israel, has authored numerous op-eds laying the blame for this at Netanyahu’s feet for antagonizing and annexing Palestinians so viscously. The discourse within Israel is nothing like it is in the west, because their writers aren’t afraid of being called anti-Semitic. These guys don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, nor do they seem capable of engaging in any academic or critical thinking. Take off your dunce hat and put on your thinking cap. Go read the writings of Israelis who are against these cruel actions and you will get an educated perspective instead of listening to these guys regurgitate hasbara at you. Read what Yeshayahu Leibowitz wrote about Israel being on the brink of becoming a state of “Judeo-Nazis.” Remember what happened in the wake of 9/11 when America made the same mistakes. Learn, do your homework. Don’t rely on talking heads with podcasts to deliver you an answer. These are not serious people, and it is a very serious topic.
10:44 “There is a huge moral difference between these two sides.” Thank you for stating this obvious - albeit often overlooked - truth in such simple and clear terms. 🙏🏼
Explain this. How is the a huge moral difference between killing children and innocent civilians and TARGETING and CELEBRATING by Hamas….or the Israeli government targeting and celebrating them blowing up oh I don’t know hospitals with innocent kids and civilians. You think babies have their heads intact when a bomb destroys the hospital they’re in? Disgusting. If this is Israel’s 9-11 they should probably learn from the gross, disgusting acts of violence we did to innocent civilians. Have you people not learned anything
@@kimilsungthefirst6840 “disregard for civilian life”? Why? Because Israel dares to bomb Hamas strongholds in Gaza which happen to be embedded in civilian territory? How else do you expect a sovereign state to respond to such a vicious and barbaric attack on its civilians? Let’s not pretend that any other Western country, including the US and all European countries, would act any differently. If you think that, you are a hypocrite.
@@kimilsungthefirst6840 It's not a universally recognized state and apart form that it's surrounded by countries that seek to destroy it once the cirumstances are favorable, so you also have to judge Israel's actions by that.
IDF will never use human shield.... the head quarter of idf is in the middle of the Central business district of tel Aviv. how is that not human shield. Why are civilians allowed to live so closely to the gaza border. Not just allowed infact they are encouraged to live there. There are state run add compaign. Why is that not considered putting civilian life in danger? Israeli Army media center is in a residential building. how is that not human shield? This Human shield argument is absolutely 💩.
@@firstnamelastname6976 You're obviously getting paid by Hamas or some other Islamist regime to spread this kind of bullshit, so get the fuck out of here. Hamas is purposely launching rockets from the vicinity of hospitals, schools or other critical civilian infrastructure and thereby intentionally putting their peoples' lifes in danger. That's what it means when people say that Hamas are using civilians as "human shields". The fact that IDF has its headquarters in the center of Tel Aviv has nothing to do with that and I believe everyone who's not actively spreading Hamas propaganda can see the difference.
I watched Andrew's second half of this conversation on his channel and discovered your channel Coleman. I am impressed by your thoughtful, considerate and informed manner for speaking about such an important and complex topic as the Palestinian-Israeli conflict which has been going on for decades. There is a lot of ignorance of the history of this conflict amongst people who drank the koolaide of the propaganda fed to them without question for decades about this conflict. I believe channels like yours and Andrew's serves a very important role right now, to calmly, respectfully and compassionately discuss this conflict with the true victims of this longstanding conflict at the centre - the innocent Palestinian and Israeli people. Israel has every right to defend itself from this heinous crime committed by the terrorists. I have always been a pacifist and detest all wars, but everyone has a right to defend themselves against evil brutalization and death and to protect their families. You raise a number of excellent points and questions about this latest attack on innocent people and families in Israel which was swift, brutally evil and shocking to the world. The fact that Hamas celebrated their evil deeds on innocent people by broadcasting their barbaric deeds to the innocent victims across social media I believe goes to the heart of their motivation to do what they did. Their attacks last Saturday on Shabbat in Israel while people were dancing is pure evil terrorism. There is no negotiating with evil terrorism. It is like a cancer that spreads. We were all assaulted with the horrific images of what Daesh did to their victims years ago and how quickly they spread their evil in the Middle East. This cannot happen again!
POOR PALESTINIANS I don’t even know what the children and the donkeys did to be killed? 1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” 1 Samuel 18:27 27 David took his men with him and went out and killed two hundred Philistines and brought back their foreskins. They counted out the full number to the king so that David might become the king’s son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage. Judges 15:4 4 So he went out and caught three hundred foxes and tied them tail to tail in pairs. He then fastened a torch to every pair of tails, 5 lit the torches and let the foxes loose in the standing grain of the Philistines. He burned up the shocks and standing grain, together with the vineyards and olive. Judges 15:15 Finding a fresh jawbone of a donkey, he grabbed it and struck down a thousand Philistines men. 16 Then Samson said, “With a donkey’s jawbone I have made donkeys of them. a With a donkey’s jawbone I have killed a thousand men.” 17 When he finished speaking, he threw away the jawbone; and the place was called Ramath Lehi. b 18 Because he was very thirsty, he cried out to the Lord, “You have given your servant this great victory. 1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Numbers 31:17 So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man. 18 Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. Numbers 31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man. EVEN GOD OF THE BIBLE WANTS SOME TOO Numbers 31:40 16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the Lord was 32.
The part that you, along with the vast majority of other Westerners - including most who present their viewpoint as very fair, rational and careful - fail to include, is the fact that none of these groups would exist but for the actions of the American war machine & imperialism. Hamas, Daesh, Al-Qaeda - all of these are creations of the US State Dept and CIA. You can add the Ukrainian "ultra-nationalists" to that list now, too. The US war empire creates these groups to destabilise & discredit their adversaries. Sadly, the vast majority of Americans are too inured by the brainwashing, and utterly incapable of perceiving the truth of these sorry affairs.
But the civilians! If you start shooting from your home into my home across the street and I shoot back and one of your kids or wife gets killed, who's fault is it that a kid was killed.? That's the logic of the people we are listening too in some media outlets.They want the person shooting back to be the one accountable.
I feel comforted for the first time all week, hearing someone with a brain and a soul (both you and Andrew) articulate everything I've been thinking and feeling and condemn the lack of condemnation for the awful massacre last Saturday. Never thought I'd see the day people took up for terrorists to preserve their hate for jews.
Coleman is quite ignorant. His hubris on having an opinion about things he doesn't know about is typical of the woke generation. Any fool can see that Israel has brainwashed its citizens and committed genocide since 1948. His pathetic guest is lying about Oct 7....no evidence. And how about the 14000 Palestinians in Israel jails being tortured and having sticks shoved up their ass? Not worth a mention? There is evidence, but it doesn't fit in with this nonsense here. Coleman is too stupid to be objective. I found out that Israel is a racist murdering country....I found his out by myself by researching and reading things on the web.....so easy.
Thank you so much for this calm, logical conversation. There are so many heated arguments on this topic and distressing images, news updates, antagonistic attitudes, entrenched belief systems.. I'm so glad I stumbled on Andrew Gold's channel and yours. I have family in Israel, including a nephew on duty at the Gaza border. At the same time, I want to consider opposing views and remain empathetic to the suffering of those trapped in Gaza. Coleman's take really crystallized how I feel about the history and the current state of things.
Thank you both! And thank you Coleman for talking with Andrew about this difficult question. He's been doing an awesome job, on his own, doing livestreams ever since the catastrophe last Saturday. I'm so glad he got to talk about this with someone else - and I'm especially glad it was with you!
Coleman: would be so interested to learn how the Left became so enamored of this cause on the Hamas side - when Hamas would absolutely not support anything the US Left supports (other than their cause). How did this come about?
Leftists have a thing for "the underdog" which invariably sees them excuse any atrocity commited by this so-called underdog. Also: the left hates Jews as much as the nazis did. It's then incredibly ironic to see how much the left loves to wield the accusation of nazi against anyone they don't like.
How refreshing to hear a real conversation rather than a yelling match where nobody hears each other. It’s so easy to jump on a bandwagon and just stay there on your “side” without being open to any discourse. Thank you for this conversation. ❤
Hamas slaughtered men, women, children, and pets. Seeing the dead dogs and the children's beds soaked with blood is something everyone needs to see if they are still morally confused.
22 Arab countries and the 700,000 original arabs who left in '48 could not find refuge, anywhere? I heard a Palestinian woman activist say how awful Palestinians are treated who did make it into one of these other 22 Arab countries. For whatever reason they are not able to become citizens, etc
The Arab countries are using Palestinian Arabs as pawns in their games against Israel. If you review history, Jordan is the home of these Arabs. The name "Palestinians" always referred to Jews before the 1960s, and they took on the PR war to rebrand themselves as Palestinians so linked themselves to the land. Romans renamed the land to philistine after a Jewish revolt.
Jordan took in Palestinian refugees and for their kindness, Jordan was repaid by the Palestinians attempting to overthrow their king. Jordan was then forced to expel them. Egypt shares a border with Gaza, and they too took in Palestinians. The Palestinians then attempted to launch rockets at Israel from within the Egyptian border, almost causing Egypt to get pulled into a war with Israel. This is why Egypt has closed their border to the Palestinians and refuses to allow refugees in again. The majority of Palestine voted for Hamas which is a barbaric terrorist organization. They elected them. Nobody wants the Palestinians for good reason
Coleman, it's been 5 months since this video, and the plot has been shifting dramatically since. You ought to speak to Norman Finkelstein. The disagreement isn't on how downright demonic HAMAS' actions were (and how disgusting it is that many Muslims around the world cheered it on and celebrated it). The disagreement is on whether Israel is justified to do what they're doing to Palestine now. The collateral damage being done to Palestinians, people, animals. The problem it is greatly suspected now, that Netanyahu IS NOT trying to target HAMAS -- but that he is trying to genocide the Palestinians. Not only the death toll of Palestinians far overshadows the death toll of Israelis on October 7th -- but the RATIO of dead Palestinian women/children to HAMAS militia, far overshadows the ratio of dead Israeli civilians to soldiers.
I agree with you, although the debate is around both issues...what Israel military strategy is (hurting civilians) and the mass defense of Hamas happening on a global scale. The Palestine side has made such a terrible mistake of giving up the moral highground by making the Hamas debate a thing. Nobody needs to defend Hamas to support Palestine, yet that side keeps pulling us back into this troubling debate. We should all agree civilians should never be targeted or on the receiving end of most damage, regardless of side.
@@ncorp2668 I have to say I'm not aware of a mass global defense of Hamas' actions though. I'm sure there are some who do but certainly not me or the people I listen to such as Norman Finkelstein. I say this because I'm wary of people getting the wrong idea and automatically associating the criticisms of Israel with the defense of Hamas.
This is excellent and one of the most intelligent and evolved conversations I have come across regarding Israel 🇮🇱 and Palestine 🇵🇸 confict so far. Outstanding podcast. 👏
This is a unique podcast. You've taken a difficult subject and given it a Palestinian /Israeli perspective - respecting both sides, helps to connect rather than divide, helps to educate without preachiness, helps for all of us to stand up, reach out and accept each others differences. You and Andrew Gold should continue exploring deeper. You are both GOLD.
Why does the world not pressure Egypt to end its part of the blockade, to rescue their Arab brothers, this community and offer them a new home in their very large country?
Once Egypt opens the border many Hamas members will flee to its territory together with innocent civilians, and this could be an existential threat to the regime.
Israel keeps attacking the raffah crossing between Egypt and Palestine. The gates are open. Israel told Gazan’s to evacuate to the south and now are attacking on the way.
The beheaded baby debate is so upsetting to me. Basically, there were several murdered babies without their heads. The Drs admitted that they were not sure exactly HOW the head was removed, so may or may not fit the "beheaded" definition. Does it matter though? The babies lost their heads in an act of lethal violence. Some photos showed bloody knives next to the bodies, so naturally, one would assume the knife was used. Why should that shock anyone? They beheaded adults, on video, with glee, so I get very annoyed when someone feels the need to point out that the babies weren't LITERALLY beheaded, or that the numbers were inaccurate. Completely ridiculous
In jumping from 1948 to 2000 you left out huge chunks of history. From 1949 to 1967 the West Bank was occupied by Jordan, and the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt. Either or both countries could have simply withdrawn and granted autonomy to the Palestinians. Not only didn’t they do that, but there were no cries of “end our occupation!” from the Palestinians during those 19 years. In 1964 the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) formed. They did not want liberation of the West Bank from the Jordanians. They wanted to liberate the State of Israel from the Jews.
You're ignorant of history, why would they ask for "freedom" from states that were not abusing them like Israel is today. Governing in Palestine has never been easy, both countries were there for a reason, genius. Your false equivalence is preposterous. Also go put a shirt on, it's nasty and embarassing
What are you talking about? The PLO also fought against Jordanian occupation initiated by King Hussein. The PLO also challenged Egyptian hegemony.Moreover, it was not Jordan who forced the mass exodus from West Jerusalem it was Israel, thus the different discourse concerning how the Palestinians view Israel who unlike Jordan did not universally extended citizenship to it's Arab population. To this day there was no just compensation for land seizures. If the Internet does one thing it grants you the opportunity to look things up before you type.
@@Leo82870 *_"This Organization does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, political and financial fields."_* PLO 1964 Charter
@@shainazion4073 The premise of your initial point was whether or not the PLO has challenged Jordanian and Egyptian hegemony as opposed to just Israeli occupation. It has been pointed out that indeed they did. As to your retort, we can both agree that despite what the charter may have said, clearly the PLO has internal disagreement as attacks on Jordan would indicate. Again it was not Jordan who created the British Mandate and to suggest that anti semitism is why revolt is happening in Gaza is simply ahistorical in as much as it is not the sole reason as you are insinuating.
It doesn’t matter that Hamas and the IDF aren’t the same. Both are committing war crimes and human rights violations, and both need to be held accountable by the international community for this to end.
Only a deaf & blind person would agree with you. But you need not look further than the Hamas & IJ videos showed, then the clear violation of hostage taking, using schools and hospitals for military planning, stealing food and shelter from Gaza citizens and using them as literal human shields. But name one way Israel has violated international law. You can’t and that is what disturbs you the most.
Thanks for watching my latest episode. Let me know your thoughts and opinions down below in a comment. If you like my content and want to support me, consider becoming a paying member of the Coleman Unfiltered Community here --> bit.ly/3B1GAlS
Hi Coleman,I usually really enjoy your content but i have to admit that this time it was quite boring to hear you and your guest constantly agree on all the classic mainstream talking points. I can just turn on th bbc if i want to hear such a one sided point of view .
@@alemarozz Glad to read this comment, not meaning to hurt Coleman's feelings (really), but it is reassuring to know that some Americans are willing or curious to hear about the other side of things.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye This”no moral equivalence “ theory comes from Sam Harris that has always been anti muslin in his geopolitical views. And im very surprised to see Coleman adopting the same position. I suspect Coleman is scared of the shitstorm that would come if he would be more nuanced on this topic
I’m curious. Hamas was voted in in 2005. Their charter, which explicitly states (Article 13): “There is no solution to the Palestinian question except through jihad.” I assume gazans were familiar with this, yet still voted for Hamas. 🤔The rest of this charter is equally disturbing. And, once again, thank you, Coleman 🙏❣️
Last election in Gaza held in 2006 with Hamas being the only option. (How democratic that was). 50% of Gazans are under 18, and 75% were unborn/too young to have voted. But sure, let’s keep holding innocent people responsible for a charter written on a piece of paper before they are even born.
@@hustle3011 I am not sure I understand your point. However, I reject the argument of moral relativism. Killing innocent civilians intentionally or as collateral damage in name of "self-defense" is equally disgusting, barbaric, and criminal. No exceptions. Israel has been doing this for decades and getting away with it. I know it is hard to accept this, but that is the truth. So far Israel is collectively punishing 2.2 million people half of which are children. Feel free to find a way to justify Israel's actions. Personally, I can't, for either side. I don't accept this happening to any child WHATSOEVER regardless of who their ancestors voted/didn't vote for.
@@taroskib There are more than two million Palestinian Israelis who have equality under the law and lead much better lives than those in the West Bank and Gaza. What happened a week ago showed perfectly why Israel can never trust what is known as the 'outside Palestinians' and if they do not keep them on a tight leash they face certain genocide.
@@taroskibwhy doesn’t Hamas keep their military headquarters in a, you know, military base? Why do they shoot their rockets from behind apartment buildings and schools? Because they use their own civilians and human shields. They don’t give a flying f about their own people
What is missing in the discussion is the fact that a new country was created not in the void but in the land where people were already living for generations. There was no official voting to determine the opinion of the majority whether they would agree to partition their land which would create a new state. Things were kind of imposed then on the locals and they couldn’t do anything to oppose the decision of the UN.
@Munulys Exactly, they conveniently skip that part. There were people living in the land for centuries. Then the "european jews" (zionists) mass migrated to the land because if the nazis, with the claim that their God promised them the land 10,000 years ago?!..then Nakba happened, and continues to happen until this day.
So clear-headed and such an amazing communicator of ideas. It’s easy-well , easier-to communicate emotion, to rile people up. Being able to engagingly communicate ideas and reason is such a rare talent.
Repeating talking points!Mr Hughes doesn't have the depth of experience or knowledge to present a nuanced conversation on this long standing issue.Just my opinion. Mother Grandmother lived in 3 continents and of a certain age. I say this with respect knowing he needs to travel more to harness a more substantial world view of history to bring to the table. Still found value in the conversation.
Talking points can = his own research and opinions which he’s allowed to have. So the only people able to discuss issues are people who have lived it? He’s supposed to go join the IDF or hamas and THEN talk? You sound like someone from the left who just wants to shut down/criticize conversation that is different from your own. Of course you found value bc all conversations are valuable! He doesn’t need to travel to know bc even opinions from the outside looking in are still valuable. Maybe critical bc those intimately involved in the conflict can’t figure out a way for peace.
Gabor Mate, Aaron Mate, Norman Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, Katie Halper, Glenn Greenwald, Bri Joy Gray, just to name a few, could provide different perspectives. Your willingness to engage and stay curious is much appreciated.
That would expose how many false presuppositions he is operating on and it might be embarrassing. Notice how pro Israel he is and how he has only had a pro Israel quest on. Turns out he doesn't understand nuance is subtle differences and you can't really get differences when you are a mouth piece with hasbara talking points.
@@analienable1398 The people mentioned above are obviously mostly biased, Marxist inspired activists; imbalanced leftists viewing the entire world through their colonially coloured narratives; anachronistically blinded by ideology; crusaders with a monomaniacal conceptual/ideological parasitism; infected with Israel.
Coleman!!! please note: At 1917 when the British were given the Mandat over the Middle East they officially called the holy land "Palestine" (since the name was given for the first time around 135 C.E.) The 1947 partition plan was to split Palestine between Arabs and Jews. By the end of the war (1949) Palestine was indeed split: one part became Israel the other part was taken by Jordan. The Arabs that stay under both sides refuse to recognize both Israel and Jordan as their new home and they just continue to use the old name of the place. They declined the sovereignty of Israel and Jordan. 😢
Coleman, I am a new subscriber to your Chanel because of this conversation. It is so wonderful to hear an Afro American who has obviously done a lot of research on this topic and can understand the nuances of this very difficult situation. I am so disturbed with so many Americans who are so ignorant about the history and realities of the Middle East and are so quick to jump on the bandwagon of popular thought, reinterpreting what Apartheid means. When there are over a billion Arabs who identify as Antisemitic, per a survey done in 2018, let alone the antisemitic white supremists and others in the world, it is daunting for Jews to get world support. That is why the Jewish homeland is so critical. Very sad that even some American Jews don’t understand this and are also ignorant about their own history.
They are anti Isreali and not anti sematic a distinction you won't make because it doesn't support the argument you are trying to make. That survey was done after Isreal IDF killed so many civilians in blanket bombing of Gaza just like this week.
@walan31 I get so fed up with the narrative on many of these videos. Last night I watched a few videos of former IDF, they speak out about their time in the army and how they saw themselves as terrorists. Even before the Balfour declaration communications from Zionists clearly showed that the project of a Jewish home land intended colonisation and no Arab consent, they were to be an eye in the Middle East, spying for the West . If you live in terror your create terrorists. Britian and the rest of the West created terrorists through political interference, colonisation and invasion. At the time of the farcical British protectorate the British government called Jews terrorists along with the Arab population. The British made sure Arabs were stripped of any weaponsandd secretly armed the Jewish people who were smuggled into Palestine. They fully facilitated the Nakba. If you oppress people, steal their land, murder them, deny them human rights and treat them with humiliation day on day, those people will either be apathetic or fight back with any means at their disposal
I can speak from personal experience the Israelis are very adept at hiding behind their religion to commit atrocities. I live near two massive orthodox and hasidic enclaves in the NY/NJ area and they are not only separatists, but they have zero morals when it comes to outsiders. They have been slowly taking over a huge part of Central jersey by shady land deals, outright theft, arson, bribery, any shady thing necessary to get their way. They get into the town governments and start siphoning off money to their "community " that is supposed to be for the general public, they avoid paying taxes like it's ebola, and they are generally shitty people. You can't criticize their actions without being called an anti-semite, and they are a cancer to the community at large. They are adept at lawfare and will pool together as a group to push out outsiders before they go back to screwing each other over, which has destroyed many nice local towns that were once diverse and successful, which now pretty much look as shitty as Israel. I was brought up treating people as individuals and don't judge people on their outgroup, but this particular culture makes that sentiment impossible. If they had the chance they would erect walls and borders here to isolate their communities bc like I said, they're separatists and refuse to assimilate. They consider themselves the "chosen people ", and treat others as inferior. They're especially exploitative of the Hispanic community, through high rents for illegal immigrants and low wages for the same people when they do work for the orthodox. They also cut down all the trees in the town center to remove any relief the homeless population could get from the sun. I'm sorry, they're only good to each other, and just barely. These behaviors seem endemic to the religion and not dictated by geography. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just stating my observations
@@Aaron-kq7rdIt’s funny you say that because ones of the definitions of being anti-Semitic is conflating being Jewish with support for the state of Israel. They’re not at all the same. Congrats on showing your true colors bud.
Coleman also doesn’t mention the 2018-2019 Gaza border protests where the IDF killed 223 protestors and wounded 13,000. No Israeli casualties. Where is the outrage, tears and concern ? Do the natives of the land not have the right to be angry and exact revenge ?
A very enlightening conversation! Tqvm mr coleman for your logical but truthful analysis of the conflict. It takes much moral clarity and courage to stand for the truth. Looking forward to the 2nd part
5:00 This guy just embarrasses himself by repeating propaganda. According to the hostages themselves, it was the Israeli military that killed their friends with indiscriminate firing. According to Israeli newspapers, Hamas was nowhere near that concert. People were burnt by the Hellfire missiles fired from Apache helicopters. Houses were demolished just as in Gaza by tank shells fired by the military. Please explain how it is that Hamas went on a raping , killing spree, but then told the hostages that they would be safe that they are Muslims. Hamas is an organization that punishes people in the Gaza for extramarital affairs. Look at the utterances of the Palestinians in their time of trauma. Did you see them calling on God, and thanking God? I have no doubt that civilians were killed buy hummus during that operation, but the charges of rape came up 2 months after, because the IDF has been caught lying repeatedly, and so decided to pull this card out of the pack.
Through this conflict I took it upon myself to do the research and listen to all opinions on the matter. I found your channel and I appreciate the thoroughness you maintain during your conversation on this topic and others. Refreshing to hear someone try to give a unbiased perspective whilst informing people on the biased rhetoric that people on both sides might be using. TL;DR, thanks for the great vids
Hi Coleman; over from Andrew’s channel. Liked and subbed. Andrew is one of the kindest and most balanced journalists I have seen. I intend to reach out to him on another subject related to his upcoming book but it can wait for now because of this awful situation. I look forward to searching your channel and thank you for the conversation s tonight
Coleman starts his podcast by saying he's quite sympathetic to the policies Israel has had to take to protect itself from terrorism. Israel was founded on terrorism. It has been non-stop. It started in the 20s and 30s with the Urgun and Stern gangs, amongst others. The Nakba in 1948 resulted in close to 1 million people having to flee for their lives. Hundreds of thousands of newly arrived migrants settled into Palestinian homes, took over Palestinian businesses, sent their children to Palestinian schools, went to Palestinian theaters, in short a new society was quickly built on the possessions of the exiled indigenous population. Israel was built on Palestine. Zionism is an extremist ideology that scorns coexistence, which is why Israel is constantly fighting with its neighbors and whittles down the West Bank. It's a never-ending line grab. Prior to the creation of Israel Jews Christians and Muslims coexisted and got along just fine. That fact is backed up by many rabbis. Then the zionists came and everything went to hell. Israrl is at the heart of instability in that region. It woukd have had to worry little about terrorism if it wasnt the instigator of it.
Hamas talks out both sides its mouth. In once sentence they just want freedom and opportunity. In the next sentence they don't believe Israel has the right to exist. Very good conversation.
Just found your podcast, Coleman , and I’m floored by your breadth of knowledge and commitment to fairness and intolerance of the intolerant. Thankyou for your strong moral compass. Subbed!
I greatly enjoyed this podcast, even if I'm not sure I entirely agree with the views you expressed (mostly because I still feel like I don't know enough about the issue). One note, though. You understanbly said that Israel needs to retaliate, and to retaliate in such a way that would make another attack like this inconceivable. At the same time, you correctly noted how Hamas could have not only expected the retaliation but counted on it to further isolate Israel. I feel this is a conundrum worth of some further analysis and I regret you didn't dig deeper into it. Also, I'd like to say that I feel the one thing truly lacking from the overall discussion about this events are Palestinian voices testifying about the conditions on the ground. Not because I think said conditions could justify what happened (nothing can), but because we can't claim we've investigated this issue unless we listen to both sides of the story. I know quite a few Palestinian refugees (not activists or terrorists, just regular people) and I don't see their experiences, which I have no reason to doubt, represented anywhere in the "podcast space." Regardless, thank you for your honest attempt to dig into such a delicate topic.
As you said you need to learn more about the issue. Gaza doesn't want to be left alone, they want all of Israel & want all Jews (& all non Muslims dead). Those that can tolerate others either are having to hide & stay quiet so Hamas won't kill them or they simple agree with Hamas. Gaza has turned down a 2 state solution multiple times. Israel has been dissociated from Gaza since 2005 but still provides a decent amount of free water and electricity. Hamas has done nothing to make the area self sustainable because that is not their goal. No other Arab Muslim countries want the refugees because the likelihood of Hamas or Hamas supporters being among them is HIGH. Ultimately Hamas & its supporters are the people that caused this. Hamas is the current name, but organizations & Islamist government groups existed & attacked Jews for centuries - the displacement after WW2 didn't cause this hatred (because what other alternative sadly did the world have when Jews clearly needed a specific homeland to gather & heal? They were sent to the place most Jewish! Israel!)
any conditions in Gaza (which has poor who are super-poor and rich who are super-rich, so it’s not exactly how it’s presented in the news. they never show you the elite quarters and the luxury of it) sre due to Hamas. the onus for any suffering of Gazans is on Hamas. period.
with Hamas the reasons and goals aren’t murky. their genocidal intentions against Jews and Israel are in their charter. it’s not a land dispute. not freedom fighting. they are Nazis. always been. and that’s the reason for everything they have.
"I want to discuss with somebody who strongly disagrees with me on this issue." This is the reason I keep listening to you even--or especially--when I don't agree with you. Bravo.
He was referring to when Coleman said that in the future he would like to discuss this issue with someone who strongly disagrees. The future. Not this conversation. @@donaldcharles3331
@@Baker68 This was a mediocre discussion that puppets the same narrative as all the corporate media. If you want to see a more balanced view, Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal, Norman Finkelstein, Scott Horton, Dave Smith, or Kim Iverson. 2 of these people are Jewish, 2 are Journalists that have been to Israel and Palestine, and 2 are Libertarian and Anti-War. Scott Horton is extremely well read on the Military and all conflicts for 100 years. You think 2 kids are having an honest debate but its absolutely not.
Thank you so much for being a voice of reason Coleman, and when listening to you it's so clear that it comes first and formost from true knowledge about the ongoing situation, and not falling to propaganda and slogans. So well thought of, so clear of thought, so much truth. A heartfelt thank you for being you.
As an Israeli, I want to thank tou Coleman for showing a bit of the other side of the story. I am Israeli that knows the history and lived the conflict (I live in Jerusalem the heart of the conflict). Whenever I just answer comments with history and facts I get censored, people don't want to hear what I have to say. I wish someone would interview regular Israeli like me, who don't fit the narative even a bit, and just hear what people like us have to say about the conflict.
11:14 The IDF did exactly this, call it intentional or not but this extremely militarized state had weak border security on october 7th, then they used this attack to justify bombing Palestinian civilians
This. There are endless assertions of wrongdoing by both sides, with only scarce direct witness accounts, photographs, or video. I respect Coleman, but for me this conversation is downstream of assertions of facts I have not been able to substantiate.
People are calling it “Apartheid” but I never remember there being a black South African version of Hamas and Nelson Mandela never called for the genocide of white Afrikaners.
Coleman, you are doing what many people do when annaylizing the living conditions of the Palestinians. You, and others, describe the conditions as "open air prison", " fenced in", "occupation", etc... If any of those are true, I think they are, what you're missing is that it is justified. In the same way that all over the world governments collect people and control their every movement. They are called " prisons". We all approve of prisons because we understand that crime is unacceptable in a civilized society. That's why things are the way they are. If no terrorism occurred, then there would be no walls. Like duh..
To the black giy: Nelson Mandela was also part of the terrorist list of the usa up until 2008. Just keep that in mind before calling hamas a terrorist organization
Excellent pod! One correction: The Biden administration did increase the likelihood of Oct 7 as they removed sanctions on Iran, unlocking billions of dollars of oil sales. Compare Iran’s economy under Trump vs Biden. Big difference. Keep up good work!
The amount of inaccuracies in this podcast is outstanding. I suggest you do a lot more research before you start giving a 50 minute lecture on the situation in the Levant
I know im late commenting on this video .. ive only just come across this channel. I just wanted to appreciate how calm the discussion was and also (and im being serious) the speed at which you spoke . So refreshing .. i felt like i learnt more than i have this past year listening to one or two of your talks.
One thing stood out to me in particular. If Hamas is hiding in places that civilians are, Why not go in with your TRAINED ARMY and capture them, instead of forcing people with no where to go out of the city or bombing innocent people?
Much like how ending the discussion at "hitler was evil" paralyzes any attempt to understand why germans embraced his message leading to a holocust. Ending the discussion at "hamas is evil" keeps us from understanding why palestinians would vote for that to be their representation. Humanizing evil helps us to recognize when it exists in ourselves and also help us to prevent it from happening again.
Excellent observation. While humanizing evil, we must also figure out how to confront and eradicate it, without engaging in evil acts ourselves. That is the difficult part. Merely understanding why human beings perpetrate evil doesn’t solve the problem. But I think the point you make is a very important one.
I know RFK Jr. well, and have talked with him *at length* regarding Israel and Palestine. Toooooooo much to say about this for my thumbs here. But, in short, RFK Jr. is not "okay" with how Israel treats the Palestinians, and he knows full well the hell they endure (never mind the unimaginable Hell they are in now while being bombed mercilessly and with no aid coming, nor any way to escape Gaza). His recent tweet and interviews were not in support of Israel attacking Gaza the way it has. It was about developing a sustained military campaign to defend itself from Hamas. It is beyond heartbreaking - appalling what the Palestinians endure from Israel. But what is never mentioned, by folks on the 'left', is that if Israel became completely passive and just lived in their nation without any offensive stance, then their nation would be obliterated. Much of the 'left' in the US don't seem to realize that Israel is completely surrounded by nations who hate them (with hundreds of millions of citizens in those countries) and many of whom (a minority, but still a large and determined number) express freely that they want Israel destroyed. This is the position not because of Israel's brutal occupation (which is obviously brutal and beyond terrible for the innocent people in Palestine), but it is these nations' positions towards Israel anyway - just by being there. It is a fact, that none of the nations surrounding Israel have ever been shy about expressing, and if they had the power to, acting on destroying Israel. And so Israel becomes more and more aggressive, right-wing, hardline, etc. The situation is beyond terrible, but not so simply 'good vs bad' either/or. It is all very complicated, far beyond what my thumbs are saying here. I really do pray for every person suffering through it all. For those of us paying attention to the RFK Jr. campaign and sharing concern for his position on Israel and Palestine, here's something from his close advisor Charles Eisenstein : 'I remain an adviser to the campaign not because I’m willing to swallow the Palestine disagreement for a greater cause, but because of certain personal qualities I have seen in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that give me confidence that he will change his mind. First is humility, borne of his history of addiction and recovery that has taught him that he is no better nor worse than any other man. With humility comes a willingness to listen and cling less tightly to being right. Second is compassion: he is a very kind man who cares especially for those who have been left out. Third is sympathy for the underdog. He knows firsthand how dominant powers can distort the truth, turn blame onto victims, make criminals out of heros, and marginalize voices of protest. It is only a matter of time, I believe, before he recognizes that pattern in Israel's relations with the Palestinians.' As we all (should) know, all commercial media in the U.S and both political parties are owned stem to stern, to the nickel, by the very same institutions: the pharmaceutical industry, insurance industry, oil industry, military industrial complex and Wall Street. And all of those are essentially owned by Black Rock, State Street and Vanguard. To distract the people from this realization and its virtually endless ramifications, we are given this embarrassing divide-and-conquer 2-party duopoly whose tactics are a handful of social/cultural issues as a disguise of distinction - a distraction. In other words, the powers that be couldn't care less whether you listen to msnbc or fox news, as long as you're duped by one or the other - as they laugh to the Cayman Islands, while running our nation to the ground and shamelessly and without conscience dividing our people further apart. I was a big supporter of Bernie in 2015-16 and 19-20. This time around I'm a supporter of RFK Jr. In short, random order, here's my reasons for supporting RFK Jr... -genuinely wants to unite the country, and he has the ability to, being liked by many 'conservative' and 'rural' Americans -calm, humble, has integrity, has courage, truth seeker in general, thinks for himself - not a DNC puppet -not phony -wants to get us out of 'forever wars' and pull back on and expose the military industrial complex -wants to pull back NATO and resolve the Ukraine problem via good faith negotiations -wants to get rid of 'Citizens United' -vocal about putting an end to corporate capture over government (pharma, banks, oil, military industrial complex) -vocal about dishonesty and agendas of commercial media -wants to abolish all pharmaceutical advertisements on television -wants to keep the pharmaceutical industry honest with safety testing, transparency, etc -wants to get rid of government assist crony capitalism and subsidies for big ag, oil, etc -advocate for civil liberties -vocally against censorship -against mandates and police state-like policies -classic liberal sensibilities with respect of others, without the 'woke' bullsh*t or fake identity politics -vocal commitment to transparency regarding FBI, CIA, NSA over-stepping and out-stepping -passionate about environmental and ecological concerns -wants to close the border (this is not some republican scare issue, it is a very major issue - for many reasons) -has an excellent plan to make homes affordable for all, including a program that backs mortgages at 3% and a tax structure to keep Black Rock from continuing to buy everyone out (this also will bring rent cost down dramatically) -due to his family/background, he's well-learned from the inside of the various power structures -due to his decades as an attorney successfully taking on major corporations as well as government regulatory corruption, he is exceptionally well-suited for taking on the myriad of corporate capture over our government and the policies which ensue This is RFK Jr.'s daughter-in-law (interviewed 7 years ago), who is now his campaign manager. If you want to get some insight on how RFK Jr. also sees things regarding the many nuances and perspectives in the Middle East (and the world), perhaps watch this video... ruclips.net/video/7WEd34oW9BI/видео.html
One thing I don't really understand about Hamas is that that if they have been the government of Gaza for 15 years, then who is the mayor of Gaza, or the top local official who runs the city, and why do we not hear his name?
I’m glad I stumbled across your Ted talk Coleman. You have wisdom beyond your years. Thoroughly enjoy listening to your well thought out positions. Thank you for what you do. Keep it up!
My main concern is what I think is missing context in the discussion of Hamas' behavior vs. the state of Israel's. First, I of course must acknowledge the obvious fact that Hamas' actions in terms of massacres of Israeli civilians and how it has portrayed them is absolutely barbaric. And I don't wish to get into a debate about moral equivalence, because I will be not trying to claim that Israel is somehow as guilty or cruel as Hamas is. What I do wish to establish is a rather nuanced concern about your statement that Hamas uses Palestinian human shields to garner sympathy for their cause. My concern is not that Hamas does not do this, as in some cases they certainly do. But this is not the full explanation of why thousands of residents of Gaza have died in past conflicts with Israel and I fear that when the discussion of human shields is stated without the full context, it can, whether intended or not, inaccurately present Israel as morally blameless in their attempt to target Hamas, when in fact the Israeli military has deliberately targeted civilian targets outside of the context of any human shields scenario. Amnesty International, a very well respected human rights organization, reported (linked here) after Israel's battles with Hamas in 2009 on p. 55 of the linked report above that "Israeli government and army spokespeople have insisted that only Hamas command facilities, weapons stores, combat positions, and houses which contained tunnels or were booby- trapped were targeted, and that damage to civilian infrastructure was incidental or resulted from Hamas using the civilian population as a “human shield”. Some of the properties targeted in the Israeli air bombardment campaign or in other attacks by Israeli forces may have been used to store or manufacture rockets whose destruction would not violate international humanitarian law. In other cases, destruction of and damage to homes and other civilian property resulted from armed confrontations between Israeli forces and Palestinian militants after Israeli forces entered Gaza on 3 January, and took positions in and around Palestinian villages and in the outskirts of towns. In these areas, both Israeli forces and Palestinian militants used Palestinian homes and other civilian properties as combat positions. However, in reality, the targeting of military objectives and incidental damage resulting from such attacks or from armed confrontations account for only some of the overall devastation. Much of the destruction was wanton and resulted from deliberate and unnecessary demolition of property, direct attacks on civilian objects and indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between legitimate military targets and civilian objects. Such attacks violated fundamental provisions of international law, notably the prohibition on direct attacks on civilian objects, the prohibition on indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, the prohibition of destruction of property not required by imperative military necessity, and the prohibition on collective punishment." Similarly, in 2021, Human Rights Watch reported "The Israeli military and Palestinian authorities have a long track record of failing to investigate laws of war violations committed in or from Gaza. Human Rights Watch investigated three Israeli strikes that killed 62 Palestinian civilians where there were no evident military targets in the vicinity...Israeli forces carried out attacks in Gaza in May that devastated entire families without any apparent military target nearby." In a Q&A from the 2014 conflict, Amnesty International stated in Q&A format: "The Israeli authorities claim that Hamas and Palestinian armed groups use Palestinian civilians in Gaza as “human shields”. Does Amnesty International have any evidence that this has occurred during the current hostilities? Amnesty International is monitoring and investigating such reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. In previous conflicts Amnesty International has documented that Palestinian armed groups have stored munitions in and fired indiscriminate rockets from residential areas in the Gaza Strip in violation of international humanitarian law. Reports have also emerged during the current conflict of Hamas urging residents to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate. However, these calls may have been motivated by a desire to minimize panic and displacement, in any case, such statements are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as “human shields” for fighters, munitions, or military equipment. Under international humanitarian law even if “human shields” are being used Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply." As clearly indicated in the last quote above, my point is not to argue that Hamas does not use human shields, but that if it is implied that such use is the sole or main reason for the loss of civilian life and property, then it is ignoring what human rights organizations have found to be, in the words used Amnesty International's 2009 report, Israel's actions of "Wanton Destruction in Gaza" that have killed thousands of innocent civilians and destroyed thousands of homes. Given that these reports cover repeated conflicts, it seems logical to assume that Israel will also target civilian areas where there is no clear military target or suspected Hamas presence in the upcoming conflict and that the issue of human shields, rather than being nuanced, will be used as a blanket justification for the deaths of civilians, when it is not the case, which regardless of Hamas' utter depravity, is inexcusable. If you have any evidence that the majority of deaths in past or the current conflict in Gaza are a result of human shields, I would appreciate you referring me to the source.
You won’t get a source. The agenda is to push Israeli victimhood and excuse decades of avoiding a lasting peace and mistreating Palestinians. Ultimately for Zionist fanatics, religious and ethnic cleansing is the plan.
Thank you, Adam, for being the a lone voice of reason and skepticism among a sea of comments by blind people agreeing to agree that Israel is blameless and that Coleman's conversation is all it could be and spotless. And thank you for actually caring enough to DO THE PROPER RESEARCH about what has been happening for all the decades prior to this moment, and finding that the facts are NOT as they are being represented by MSM or by everyone on RUclips who gives their opinion, regardless of whether they know anything more than superficial about it.
Thank you so much for being another voice of reason. I have long held the same views. Incidentally it won't surprise me if Israel seek out to massacre every last Palestinian and claim the whole of Palestine for their own.
Keep holding your breath. Finding true and accurate info regarding this issue is impossible. Amnesty International using words like "wanton" in and of itself reveals their own bias. I'm not saying it's not true, just pointing out getting real info about this will not happen.
Hey Coleman, what do you think about the 750,000 Arabs expelled from their homes and forced to live in refugee camps for the founding of Israel? What do you think of Deir Yasin and the King David hotel? Do you really think it’s ok to expel so many people from their land?
On the argument for whether Palestinians face an apartheid, although there are no outright miscegenation laws in Israel, there are various social barriers that make it challenging for the two races to get married. And when they do, there are a host of legal restrictions against them, for example the Knesset passed a law denying naturalization to Palestinians from occupied West Bank or Gaza married to Israeli citizens, this primarily affects women and children and has been deemed as collective punishment by the UN. If it weren't for the horrific PR Israel would have on an international scale, they would certainly pass a law barring such relations, we can assume so based on the strategies they already use to diminish its existence. Another angle to consider about the 'moral equivalence between Hamas and Israel', is whether the piecemeal fashion of ethnic cleansing and deliberate starvation of the populace by blocking resources such as food, water and medication, by the supposed moral high ground of the IDF, is somehow 'more ethical' because it is not outright slaughter of the Arab-Muslims but rather a systematic slow death. The world has its eyes on Israel, and it could not get away with its ethnic cleansing aspirations on a higher scale if it wanted to, as it would quickly lose any support it has remaining from its allies. How is the barring of resources such as perishables and turning off power for 2 million humans, 1 million of those being children, a higher form of moral equivalency by the IDF? How is it ''collateral damage'' exactly? That is collective punishment. Hiding behind the guise of collateral damage to justify the asymmetry of morality between the two groups is a poor argument if you're concerned with ending human suffering. Sam Harris regularly talks about a ''Moral Landscape'' we can navigate to choose better forms of ending human suffering, well what landscape of choosing the best route for our morals does this fall on exactly when your only choice is to to displace 1 million people and campaign bomb them indiscriminately without food and water for children? To hand-wave it away as the only viable option to stamp out terrorism, despite the IDF having one of the most powerful and technologically advanced militaries in the world, is lazy thinking, and morally egregious.
Exactly, not to mention Netanyahu literally made a coalition government with groups that are calling for a one-state solution that is only Israel, while Arabs would be expelled. There’s literally groups in the Israeli government that encourage further settlements in West-Bank and want Israeli sovereignty over Temple Mount, in an attempt to destroy Al Aqsa Mosque and build a third temple. Additionally, not only did Netanyahu align with these groups he’s also looking to reform the Supreme Court and give himself even more power and authority. It’s funny how western media just ignore all these things, along with the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and West-Bank just to paint Israel as the “good guys.” These guys are arguing that Israel just wants peace when Israelis assassinated their prime minister in 1994 for making progress in peace talks with the Oslo Accords.
Coleman, your analysis shows your deep understanding of the complexity of the situation. That can not be taken for granted since most Westerners who refer to themselves as experts acutely miss many parts of the puzzle and can't offer true insights like you just did. You're a brilliant young man. Thank you❤
Vengeance is a terrible thing and that is why God in the Bible forbids us to pursue it. Regardless of your religion, it is hard to to give over to God our desperate feelings and let Him be judge. This conflict is the result of centuries of getting even. And as you said, Coleman, there is plenty of guilt to go around. Both Jews and Arabs have lived in this land throughout history. An offering of a two state solution has been refused by Hamas. Nothing but the destruction of all Jews is their only goal.
What a wise, lovely, respectful discussion between you two. How beautiful to see two people who might be adversaries discuss difficult issues together in openness & with a desire to promote caring. Bless you both ❤
I strongly disagree with you mr coleman. Id debate you any time anywhere. You didnt even know on rogans podcast that netanyahu knew the oct 7th attacks were coming. I thought you were an expert bud. But all you do is spread misinformation.
The history tells me to side with Israel. My gut tells me to side wity Israel. This recent violence affirms this. I feel for the suffering of palestinians...
Here we go: What happenned is that ON OCT 7TH…!!! Giving no context for oct 7th events is the sign of absolute bias. You will now try to disguise plausible genocide as defendable actions. But you have lost much of yr audience right then off the batt.
@9:35 So actually, I checked and Gaza is NOT one of the most densely populated areas of the world. Gaza has a population density of 5900 people per square km, up to 8000 on the most dense areas. To put into perspective Manila 43000 people per square kilometer, Gaza would not even make it in the top 100 most populated cities in the world. If you think about it, 2.2m people is not even a village in China
Coleman, the very fact that you pointed out such a small mistake about the year of the UN Partition Plan seriously put a tear in my eye. I have been so discouraged these days by the enormous amount of disinformation out there, and I am also scared by what appears to be a purposeful commitment to being uninformed for the sake of being part of a "tribe." You are doing such important work, I cannot thank you enough! Except maybe contributing to your channel with some money, but I don't currently have much disposable income. When I do, I certainly will.
People really just don't know history. Too many over simplify any thing they hear. Ex since Israel as we know it was created after WW2, all they incorrectly infer is that Israeli's were never there & in control of the land prior, which is not true.
I would not call that nuanced if you have no past conversations with Palestinians history experts. I saw your conversation with the Israeli historian, which glanced over Naqbah. Have more conversations with people who are not pro-israel like Zachary Foster.
Those who haven't watched Coleman's interview with Israeli historian Benny Morris, I can highly recommend it for more historical background of the conflict.
To put this into perspective, in a few hours Hamas appears to have killed over 1,400 people and kidnapped over 200 people. This is the per capita equivalent of the US losing (341 million US population)/(9.2 million Israeli population) * 1,400 or well over 50,000 Americans being killed in a few hours. How would the USA react if well over 50 thousand Americans died in a few hours? And if well over 7,000 Americans were kidnapped in a few hours?
This has nothing to do with biblical times. The Palestinians are not Philistines. The Philistines were Sea Peoples from Crete, Greece, the Palestinians are Arab Levantines. The Palestinians are a created Arab people made up in 1964 as a psy-ops of the KGB and PLO.
It's not. It's simple. European powers namely UK and France needed support during WWI from European Jews so they told them do us this favour and we will ship you to your promised land and signed Belfore declaration outlining this promise. Britain and France double crossed Arabs and promised them independence if they supported them in WWI against turks and then colonised them. Europe lead by UK and France felt that the Arab Muslim allies they dispised and often describe as " barbaric savages" are to rebellious to be left alone unchecked and carried ahead with shipping off European jews who didn't feel safe in Europe after WWII as anti sematism was an on going issue 100 years begore Nazi raised. UK thought great let's us in EU support unloading our Jews and make them someone else problem by building Jewish settlement in Palestine. They formed Jewish European miltant to start a war of siezing by extreme violence Palestinian lands and homes.... But start the war only when the UK leaves, so UK can say it wasn't me.
@@walan31very biased one sided story. If you really researched the subject, you’d find out there were Jewish people in this land long before British mandate and Ottoman Empire. The ones who came from Europe were refugees from ww2. And what you forgot to mention, there were a lot of refugees from muslim countries in Middle East and North Africa
@@not4you___nold J. Toynbee who, before becoming recognized as an eminent world historian had dealt directly with the Palestine Mandate in the British Foreign Office, wrote in 1968: “All through those 30 years, Britain (admitted) into Palestine, year by year, a quota of Jewish immigrants that varied according to the strength of the respective pressures of the Arabs and Jews at the time. These immigrants could not have come in if they had not been shielded by a British chevaux-de-frise. If Palestine had remained under Ottoman Turkish rule, or if it had become an independent Arab state in 1918, Jewish immigrants would never have been admitted into Palestine in large enough numbers to enable them to overwhelm the Palestinian Arabs in this Arab people’s own country. The reason why the State of Israel exists today and why today 1,500,000 Palestinian Arabs are refugees is that, for 30 years, Jewish immigration was imposed on the Palestinian Arabs by British military power until the immigrants were sufficiently numerous and sufficiently well-armed to be able to fend for themselves with tanks and planes of their own. The tragedy in Palestine is not just a local one; it is a tragedy for the world, because it is an injustice that is a menace to the world’s peace.” 147
My family went through Apartheid and what is happening there is very similar, from what Lebanese and Iranian people tell me. I have also seen places where people have to have passbooks to enter certain areas of The West Bank. The foundation of Apartheid was control based upon race. I have even heard Israelis tell me that most Israelis treat Palestinians and Iranians like second class citizens because they are not Jewish. That sounds a lot like Apartheid. Actually, I have heard a lot of South African Jews say that Israel promotes Apartheid in their region on The Middle East. I never understood it until now.
Loved talking to Coleman again, the guy is a legend! Thanks for all your support, everyone - I've already had a few coming over from here :)
I love Coleman's podcast. This was a phenomenal discussion. Thank you.
The two of you in a conversation is so inspirational. Listening to how each of you share your human experiences is a real learning prospect if each of us opens our minds and hearts.
Fascinating and so important. I can't thank you both enough for trying to bring some kind of sense to the tragic events in Israel.
You’re not too shabby either, Andrew 👍
I agree 100%...with both comments above.
The actual horror Coleman, is that people ARE NOT aghast! There are protests going on in this country, on college campuses with young people raising their fists chanting things like "They've got tanks, we've got hang gliders, glory to the resistance fighters!" This protest at George Mason University to name one, there are others around the country. There's seems to be a kind of cognitive dissonance happening. In France there was a similar situation, large crowds of people protesting in alliance with the attackers..The interesting thing is, back when 9/11 happened, the reverse hatred was happening, and Muslims in NY were afraid of being attacked, now it's the Jews....Humans are so fickle! It's pathetic.
No, it is tribal. They bathe in the narrative. To them it is normal.
Those chanting those stupid lyrics must be wokes. They live in a world of oppressors and oppressed and don't even see people.. The must also believe that the Hamas is good, as it is fighting for the oppressed ones.
In France the protests were likely members of the Far left led by their antisemitic idol Melanchon. I hate him. The Far-right is probably anti-semitic too but their enlightened thinker, is a Jew. or the Algerian, jobless, lost youth.
I don't like the word pathetic. Personally, I am more outraged by US conservatives who have no litmit in their exploitation of tragic events. They did it again, exploiting the massacres to attack Biden and joking about him at the same time.
Gaza health ministry: 2,750 Palestinians killed, 9,700 wounded in Israeli strikes on Gaza since Oct 7
Do you feel sad for them?
ruclips.net/video/MQ1TAOibLss/видео.htmlsi=gSxko3RbaPdAWR8b
I think you have a very narrow lens if what's jumping out at you is a vocal minority in support of terrorists.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye ..Of course I do, and always have!! My sadness though will never educate the uneducated about the fact that radical groups like Isis and Hamas are the key reason the problem continues without pause or solution. It is absolutely necessary that we understand Islam and it's history and practices! Western nations take too simplistic a view, and have very little understanding of what the central drive of these radicals are, nor are we aware of their influence, power and control of the Palestinian communities at large. We lump them all into one basket "The Palestinians". We think it's just the Israelis subjugating, we need to take a much closer look. Please look into the books of, and listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to get clarity on the subject.
Thank you Coleman for being one of the few rational, level-headed people with a platform. I don't think I can overstate how important it is that you're having these conversations and pushing back against some of the worst thinking that is, unfortunately, out there.
not level headed at all, pro zionism is evil
Settler
Occupation
Apartheid
This is just anti semitic.
He's both uninformed and ill-informed
You thank him for feeding propaganda? He has been spreading lies and misinformation, shame on him
Hamas are terrorist and Israel is worse! You are also incorrect about IDF using civilians as human shields. They do use their civilians as human shields . They take advantage of it to get the permission of the international community to do whatever they want to do.
You can’t be rational when you don’t know the facts. These guys are ignorant of both the history of this conflict and Israeli tactics. They’re clearly unaware the IDF has an official policy of deliberately targeting civilians as both a show of force and because they hold them responsible for the actions of their “leaders.” Google it, it’s called the Dahiya Doctrine. Then google “The Dahiya strategy by Yaron London,” and statements from Chief of the General Staff Gadi Eisenkot and Major General Giora Eiland on the topic. You’ll see what I’m saying is true. They openly discuss Israel’s policy of bombing civilians.
It’s easy to condemn Hamas, what they did was evil and horrible. So why is it so hard to condemn Israel? Just because they mutilate civilians with a laser guided bomb dropped from a $50 million warplane doesn’t make it any different. Anyone with a moral compass should understand that. And don’t pretend this is justified by Saturday, this conflict started 75 years ago and has been raging since the aughts.
Then these guys talk about how Hamas is such an outlier for reveling in the deaths of civilians, apparently unaware that the IDF has been posting pictures of entire blocks of leveled apartment buildings on their Twitter feed as some twisted triumphal cry. Cheering at the pictures of dead Palestinian civilians. Who do you think is under the rubble? Hamas fights are all hidden in tunnels.
They claim Israel would never use civilians as human shields even though they do just that in the West Bank. They send settlers out into dangerous territory to annex Palestinian land, putting them in harm’s way, knowing it will stir conflict and give them a casus belli for rolling in IDF forces to kill more Palestinians.
These guys care so little about the truth they say that whether babies were beheaded is a “pedantic detail.” First of all, it was a complete lie that has been confirmed as such by several sources including the White House. Second, if that’s a lie then any person capable of thinking critically should be able to extrapolate and wonder what else is a lie. It’s actually an important part of the story of how Israel disseminates propaganda. Btw, what do you think happens when a building is collapsed on a child, or a bomb explodes next to them? You think they aren’t decapitated? Do you think they aren’t blown to bits with tiny fingers and toes and arms and legs strewn about everywhere? That’s what Israel is doing right now, massacring babies and grandmas on a scale that makes Hamas’ terrorism look like amateur hour. And they’re doing it intentionally, anyone who can’t see that has their head in the sand.
Having established that the tactics and attitudes of both sides is basically the same, the real question comes down to WHY they’re doing it. Hamas is doing it because they’ve been driven insane by being confined within an open air prison run by Israel their whole lives. Israel is doing it simply because they refuse any attempt at making peace; they’ve turned down every peace accord put forth by the UN even when virtually every other nation agrees with it. Because they demand all of the area be an ethno-state that is “only for Jews,” as Netanyahu said proudly. Guess what, maintaining an ethno-state requires ethnic cleansing, it’s not rocket science. That is the mission of the Israeli government, as it has been for 75 years now. They are perpetrating an ethnic cleansing and their treatment of the Palestinians under an apartheid regime has been barbaric beyond comprehension. READ about the conditions there. LISTEN to the people who live there. LEARN how Palestinians do not have citizenship, or representation, or freedom of movement. How Gaza is was put on a borderline starvation diet, how the West Bank has been carved into 150+ cantons with checkpoints everywhere to harass, humiliate, and unfairly imprison Palestinians. They can’t even marry an Israeli.
Btw, the are a huge number of Israelis who agree with this and see it very clearly. Haaretz, the biggest paper in Israel, has authored numerous op-eds laying the blame for this at Netanyahu’s feet for antagonizing and annexing Palestinians so viscously. The discourse within Israel is nothing like it is in the west, because their writers aren’t afraid of being called anti-Semitic.
These guys don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, nor do they seem capable of engaging in academic discussion or critical thinking. Take off your dunce cap and put on your thinking hat. Go read the writings of Israelis who are against these cruel actions and you will get an educated perspective instead of listening to these guys regurgitate hasbara at you. Read what Yeshayahu Leibowitz wrote about Israel being on the brink of becoming “Judeo-Nazis.” Remember what happened in the wake of 9/11 when America made the same mistakes. Study, do your homework, research everything I’ve pointed out. Don’t rely on talking heads with podcasts to deliver you an answer. These are not serious people, and it is a very serious topic.
Thank you Coleman for being a beacon of light and speaking the truth that so many people sadly don't want to hear.
biased and pro zionist as usual
Both of you may want to interview Arab-Israelis, like Yahaya Mahamid!!! There's no Palestine.There is Gaza. And, of 160 Disputed Territories in the world, the formerly occupied West Bank by Jordan and Judea & Samaria is ONE of 160. There are Arabs who re-branded themselves as "Palestinian" after 1967 (they refused to be called Palestinian prior). The Woke Army bag of lies has re-branded the old "Slaughter the Jews" as "Free Palestine." You'll thank yourselves for reading Asra Nomani's, "Woke Army." To understand the "Holy Hate, Love of Death" Islamist doctrine, read Cynthia Farahat's "Secret Apparatus." 1500 Israelis have already been killed (10/15/23). Just another lie, Gaza is not as crowded as Tel Aviv and the Hamas leadership live in palaces.. The "proportionality" BS has exhausted itself. Hamas is just a branch of the Submission Bros. Watch the film "Timbuktu's" to get an idea and "Habermann," to see what happened to ethnic Germans at the end of WWII. Taken from Carter's book, the apartheid idea is BS. If anything the Arabs have cleansed Jews in their lands (Watch "The Forgotten Refugees" on Vimeo). Carter's context was a future possibility, in case the Jews annex Judea, Samaria and the former West Bank and Israel stop being a Jewish-majority state. Gotta stop talking about this BS. Middle East scholar, Dr Kedar has a brilliant idea, "the Arab-Palestinian Emirates," Right now it may be too risky to try, however.
Truth? he is the definition of ignorant. He doesn't know what he is talking about.
I am not sure whether he gave an accurate account of what happened at the kibbutz. There are different reports as well. ruclips.net/video/3cPeRSVgUpQ/видео.html
What truth? These guys are unbelievably ignorant of both the history of this conflict and Israeli tactics. They’re completely unaware the IDF has an official policy of deliberately targeting civilians as both a show of force and because they hold them responsible for the actions of their “leaders.” Google it, it’s called the Dahiya Doctrine. Then google “The Dahiya strategy by Yaron London,” and statements from Chief of the General Staff Gadi Eisenkot or Major General Giora Eiland on the topic. You’ll see everything I’m saying is true. They discuss it openly.
Then these guys talk about how Hamas is so strange for reveling in the deaths of civilians, apparently unaware that the IDF has been posting pictures of entire blocks of leveled apartment buildings on their Twitter feed as some twisted triumphal war cry.
Ffs, they care so little about the truth they say that whether or not babies were beheaded is a “pedantic detail.” First of all, it was a complete and utter lie that has been confirmed as such by several sources including the White House. Second, if that’s a lie then any person capable of thinking critically should be able to extrapolate and wonder what else is a lie. It’s actually a very important part of the story of how Israel disseminates propaganda. Btw, what do you think happens when a building is collapsed on a child, or a bomb explodes next to them? You think they aren’t decapitated? Do you think they aren’t blown to bits with tiny fingers and toes and arms and legs strewn about everywhere? That’s what Israel is doing right now, massacring babies and grandmas on a scale that makes Hamas’ terrorism look like amateur hour. And they’re doing it intentionally, anyone who can’t see that has their head in the sand.
It’s easy to condemn Hamas, what they did was evil and horrible. So why is it so hard to condemn Israel? Just because they mutilate civilians with a laser guided bomb dropped from a $50 million airplane doesn’t make it any different. Anyone with a moral compass should understand that.
Having established that the tactics and attitudes of both sides is basically the same, the real discussion comes down to WHY they’re doing it. Hamas is doing it because they’ve been driven insane by living in an open air abattoir their whole lives. Israel is doing it simply because they refuse any attempt at making peace. Because they demand all of the area be an ethno-state that is “only for Jews,” as Netanyahu said proudly. Guess what, maintaining an ethno-state requires ethnic cleansing, it’s not rocket science. That is the mission of the Israeli government, as it has been for 75 years. They are perpetuating a genocide and their treatment of the Palestinians has been barbaric beyond comprehension. READ about the conditions there. LISTEN to the people who live there. This conflict did not start on Saturday.
Btw, the are a huge number of Israelis who agree with this and see it very clearly. Haaretz, the biggest paper in Israel, has authored numerous op-eds laying the blame for this at Netanyahu’s feet for antagonizing and annexing Palestinians so viscously. The discourse within Israel is nothing like it is in the west, because their writers aren’t afraid of being called anti-Semitic.
These guys don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, nor do they seem capable of engaging in any academic or critical thinking. Take off your dunce hat and put on your thinking cap. Go read the writings of Israelis who are against these cruel actions and you will get an educated perspective instead of listening to these guys regurgitate hasbara at you. Read what Yeshayahu Leibowitz wrote about Israel being on the brink of becoming a state of “Judeo-Nazis.” Remember what happened in the wake of 9/11 when America made the same mistakes. Learn, do your homework. Don’t rely on talking heads with podcasts to deliver you an answer. These are not serious people, and it is a very serious topic.
10:44 “There is a huge moral difference between these two sides.”
Thank you for stating this obvious - albeit often overlooked - truth in such simple and clear terms. 🙏🏼
Explain this. How is the a huge moral difference between killing children and innocent civilians and TARGETING and CELEBRATING by Hamas….or the Israeli government targeting and celebrating them blowing up oh I don’t know hospitals with innocent kids and civilians. You think babies have their heads intact when a bomb destroys the hospital they’re in?
Disgusting. If this is Israel’s 9-11 they should probably learn from the gross, disgusting acts of violence we did to innocent civilians. Have you people not learned anything
@@kimilsungthefirst6840 “disregard for civilian life”? Why? Because Israel dares to bomb Hamas strongholds in Gaza which happen to be embedded in civilian territory? How else do you expect a sovereign state to respond to such a vicious and barbaric attack on its civilians?
Let’s not pretend that any other Western country, including the US and all European countries, would act any differently. If you think that, you are a hypocrite.
@@kimilsungthefirst6840 It's not a universally recognized state and apart form that it's surrounded by countries that seek to destroy it once the cirumstances are favorable, so you also have to judge Israel's actions by that.
IDF will never use human shield.... the head quarter of idf is in the middle of the Central business district of tel Aviv. how is that not human shield. Why are civilians allowed to live so closely to the gaza border. Not just allowed infact they are encouraged to live there. There are state run add compaign. Why is that not considered putting civilian life in danger? Israeli Army media center is in a residential building. how is that not human shield?
This Human shield argument is absolutely 💩.
@@firstnamelastname6976 You're obviously getting paid by Hamas or some other Islamist regime to spread this kind of bullshit, so get the fuck out of here.
Hamas is purposely launching rockets from the vicinity of hospitals, schools or other critical civilian infrastructure and thereby intentionally putting their peoples' lifes in danger. That's what it means when people say that Hamas are using civilians as "human shields". The fact that IDF has its headquarters in the center of Tel Aviv has nothing to do with that and I believe everyone who's not actively spreading Hamas propaganda can see the difference.
I watched Andrew's second half of this conversation on his channel and discovered your channel Coleman. I am impressed by your thoughtful, considerate and informed manner for speaking about such an important and complex topic as the Palestinian-Israeli conflict which has been going on for decades. There is a lot of ignorance of the history of this conflict amongst people who drank the koolaide of the propaganda fed to them without question for decades about this conflict. I believe channels like yours and Andrew's serves a very important role right now, to calmly, respectfully and compassionately discuss this conflict with the true victims of this longstanding conflict at the centre - the innocent Palestinian and Israeli people. Israel has every right to defend itself from this heinous crime committed by the terrorists. I have always been a pacifist and detest all wars, but everyone has a right to defend themselves against evil brutalization and death and to protect their families. You raise a number of excellent points and questions about this latest attack on innocent people and families in Israel which was swift, brutally evil and shocking to the world. The fact that Hamas celebrated their evil deeds on innocent people by broadcasting their barbaric deeds to the innocent victims across social media I believe goes to the heart of their motivation to do what they did. Their attacks last Saturday on Shabbat in Israel while people were dancing is pure evil terrorism. There is no negotiating with evil terrorism. It is like a cancer that spreads. We were all assaulted with the horrific images of what Daesh did to their victims years ago and how quickly they spread their evil in the Middle East. This cannot happen again!
POOR PALESTINIANS
I don’t even know what the children and the donkeys did to be killed?
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
1 Samuel 18:27
27 David took his men with him and went out and killed two hundred Philistines and brought back their foreskins. They counted out the full number to the king so that David might become the king’s son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.
Judges 15:4
4 So he went out and caught three hundred foxes and tied them tail to tail in pairs. He then fastened a torch to every pair of tails,
5 lit the torches and let the foxes loose in the standing grain of the Philistines. He burned up
the shocks and standing grain, together with the vineyards and olive.
Judges 15:15
Finding a fresh jawbone of a donkey, he grabbed it and struck down a thousand Philistines men.
16 Then Samson said,
“With a donkey’s jawbone
I have made donkeys of them. a
With a donkey’s jawbone
I have killed a thousand men.”
17 When he finished speaking, he threw away the jawbone; and the place was called Ramath Lehi. b
18 Because he was very thirsty, he cried out to the Lord, “You have given your servant this great victory.
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Numbers 31:17
So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man.
18 Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Numbers 31:31
So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.
EVEN GOD OF THE BIBLE WANTS SOME TOO
Numbers 31:40
16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the Lord was 32.
The part that you, along with the vast majority of other Westerners - including most who present their viewpoint as very fair, rational and careful - fail to include, is the fact that none of these groups would exist but for the actions of the American war machine & imperialism. Hamas, Daesh, Al-Qaeda - all of these are creations of the US State Dept and CIA. You can add the Ukrainian "ultra-nationalists" to that list now, too.
The US war empire creates these groups to destabilise & discredit their adversaries. Sadly, the vast majority of Americans are too inured by the brainwashing, and utterly incapable of perceiving the truth of these sorry affairs.
I watched a few videos last night of former IDF soldiers, and they said they were the terrorists in Israel. Terrorising people breeds terrorism
But the civilians!
If you start shooting from your home into my home across the street and I shoot back and one of your kids or wife gets killed, who's fault is it that a kid was killed.?
That's the logic of the people we are listening too in some media outlets.They want the person shooting back to be the one accountable.
"while people were dancing" 😂
I feel comforted for the first time all week, hearing someone with a brain and a soul (both you and Andrew) articulate everything I've been thinking and feeling and condemn the lack of condemnation for the awful massacre last Saturday. Never thought I'd see the day people took up for terrorists to preserve their hate for jews.
Coleman is quite ignorant. His hubris on having an opinion about things he doesn't know about is typical of the woke generation. Any fool can see that Israel has brainwashed its citizens and committed genocide since 1948. His pathetic guest is lying about Oct 7....no evidence. And how about the 14000 Palestinians in Israel jails being tortured and having sticks shoved up their ass? Not worth a mention? There is evidence, but it doesn't fit in with this nonsense here. Coleman is too stupid to be objective. I found out that Israel is a racist murdering country....I found his out by myself by researching and reading things on the web.....so easy.
Coleman, I’m so happy to have discovered you. Excellent
Thank you so much for this calm, logical conversation. There are so many heated arguments on this topic and distressing images, news updates, antagonistic attitudes, entrenched belief systems.. I'm so glad I stumbled on Andrew Gold's channel and yours. I have family in Israel, including a nephew on duty at the Gaza border. At the same time, I want to consider opposing views and remain empathetic to the suffering of those trapped in Gaza. Coleman's take really crystallized how I feel about the history and the current state of things.
Thank you both! And thank you Coleman for talking with Andrew about this difficult question.
He's been doing an awesome job, on his own, doing livestreams ever since the catastrophe last Saturday.
I'm so glad he got to talk about this with someone else - and I'm especially glad it was with you!
Coleman you are a breath of fresh air. Thankful for your perspectives on so many of the issues we face in modern times.
Coleman: would be so interested to learn how the Left became so enamored of this cause on the Hamas side - when Hamas would absolutely not support anything the US Left supports (other than their cause). How did this come about?
College
It's a bunch of white guilt post colonial nonsense. All history is being reinvisioned now. I e. 1619 project on the FRONT of the NYTs
@@RunesandReapers lol it's funny cause it's sad cause it's true
Leftists have a thing for "the underdog" which invariably sees them excuse any atrocity commited by this so-called underdog.
Also: the left hates Jews as much as the nazis did. It's then incredibly ironic to see how much the left loves to wield the accusation of nazi against anyone they don't like.
Marxists tend to be anti-colonial, that's why we oppose "israel"
For the anti-Zionist perspective, please have on Norman Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, Abdullah Al-Andalusi, or Keith Woods.
How refreshing to hear a real conversation rather than a yelling match where nobody hears each other. It’s so easy to jump on a bandwagon and just stay there on your “side” without being open to any discourse. Thank you for this conversation. ❤
Hamas slaughtered men, women, children, and pets. Seeing the dead dogs and the children's beds soaked with blood is something everyone needs to see if they are still morally confused.
22 Arab countries and the 700,000 original arabs who left in '48 could not find refuge, anywhere? I heard a Palestinian woman activist say how awful Palestinians are treated who did make it into one of these other 22 Arab countries. For whatever reason they are not able to become citizens, etc
The Arab countries are using Palestinian Arabs as pawns in their games against Israel.
If you review history, Jordan is the home of these Arabs.
The name "Palestinians" always referred to Jews before the 1960s, and they took on the PR war to rebrand themselves as Palestinians so linked themselves to the land. Romans renamed the land to philistine after a Jewish revolt.
Jordan took in Palestinian refugees and for their kindness, Jordan was repaid by the Palestinians attempting to overthrow their king. Jordan was then forced to expel them. Egypt shares a border with Gaza, and they too took in Palestinians. The Palestinians then attempted to launch rockets at Israel from within the Egyptian border, almost causing Egypt to get pulled into a war with Israel. This is why Egypt has closed their border to the Palestinians and refuses to allow refugees in again. The majority of Palestine voted for Hamas which is a barbaric terrorist organization. They elected them. Nobody wants the Palestinians for good reason
They have fomented insurrection wherever they go. They are hated by most Arab countries because of this.
True
Coleman, it's been 5 months since this video, and the plot has been shifting dramatically since. You ought to speak to Norman Finkelstein.
The disagreement isn't on how downright demonic HAMAS' actions were (and how disgusting it is that many Muslims around the world cheered it on and celebrated it). The disagreement is on whether Israel is justified to do what they're doing to Palestine now. The collateral damage being done to Palestinians, people, animals. The problem it is greatly suspected now, that Netanyahu IS NOT trying to target HAMAS -- but that he is trying to genocide the Palestinians. Not only the death toll of Palestinians far overshadows the death toll of Israelis on October 7th -- but the RATIO of dead Palestinian women/children to HAMAS militia, far overshadows the ratio of dead Israeli civilians to soldiers.
I agree with you, although the debate is around both issues...what Israel military strategy is (hurting civilians) and the mass defense of Hamas happening on a global scale. The Palestine side has made such a terrible mistake of giving up the moral highground by making the Hamas debate a thing. Nobody needs to defend Hamas to support Palestine, yet that side keeps pulling us back into this troubling debate. We should all agree civilians should never be targeted or on the receiving end of most damage, regardless of side.
@@ncorp2668 I have to say I'm not aware of a mass global defense of Hamas' actions though. I'm sure there are some who do but certainly not me or the people I listen to such as Norman Finkelstein. I say this because I'm wary of people getting the wrong idea and automatically associating the criticisms of Israel with the defense of Hamas.
This is excellent and one of the most intelligent and evolved conversations I have come across regarding Israel 🇮🇱 and Palestine 🇵🇸 confict so far. Outstanding podcast. 👏
This is a unique podcast. You've taken a difficult subject and given it a Palestinian /Israeli perspective - respecting both sides, helps to connect rather than divide, helps to educate without preachiness, helps for all of us to stand up, reach out and accept each others differences. You and Andrew Gold should continue exploring deeper. You are both GOLD.
Why does the world not pressure Egypt to end its part of the blockade, to rescue their Arab brothers, this community and offer them a new home in their very large country?
Once Egypt opens the border many Hamas members will flee to its territory together with innocent civilians, and this could be an existential threat to the regime.
Israel keeps attacking the raffah crossing between Egypt and Palestine. The gates are open. Israel told Gazan’s to evacuate to the south and now are attacking on the way.
Because the arabs never do anything humanitarian, why else did europe have to take in all the syrian refugees?
That’s what I want to know
1) Pressure by doing what? Also, 2) more countries throwing their hats into the ring would be an invitation to Iran.
The beheaded baby debate is so upsetting to me. Basically, there were several murdered babies without their heads. The Drs admitted that they were not sure exactly HOW the head was removed, so may or may not fit the "beheaded" definition. Does it matter though? The babies lost their heads in an act of lethal violence. Some photos showed bloody knives next to the bodies, so naturally, one would assume the knife was used. Why should that shock anyone? They beheaded adults, on video, with glee, so I get very annoyed when someone feels the need to point out that the babies weren't LITERALLY beheaded, or that the numbers were inaccurate. Completely ridiculous
Exactly. As if that excuses or neutralizes the atrocities of Hamas. Disgusting. You are totally correct.
In jumping from 1948 to 2000 you left out huge chunks of history. From 1949 to 1967 the West Bank was occupied by Jordan, and the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt. Either or both countries could have simply withdrawn and granted autonomy to the Palestinians. Not only didn’t they do that, but there were no cries of “end our occupation!” from the Palestinians during those 19 years. In 1964 the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) formed. They did not want liberation of the West Bank from the Jordanians. They wanted to liberate the State of Israel from the Jews.
Oh you mean how the Zionists "liberated" the Palestinians from Jerusalem? You left out that little tidbit... 🤦🏻♂️
You're ignorant of history, why would they ask for "freedom" from states that were not abusing them like Israel is today. Governing in Palestine has never been easy, both countries were there for a reason, genius. Your false equivalence is preposterous.
Also go put a shirt on, it's nasty and embarassing
What are you talking about? The PLO also fought against Jordanian occupation initiated by King Hussein. The PLO also challenged Egyptian hegemony.Moreover, it was not Jordan who forced the mass exodus from West Jerusalem it was Israel, thus the different discourse concerning how the Palestinians view Israel who unlike Jordan did not universally extended citizenship to it's Arab population. To this day there was no just compensation for land seizures. If the Internet does one thing it grants you the opportunity to look things up before you type.
@@Leo82870
*_"This Organization does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, political and financial fields."_*
PLO 1964 Charter
@@shainazion4073 The premise of your initial point was whether or not the PLO has challenged Jordanian and Egyptian hegemony as opposed to just Israeli occupation. It has been pointed out that indeed they did. As to your retort, we can both agree that despite what the charter may have said, clearly the PLO has internal disagreement as attacks on Jordan would indicate. Again it was not Jordan who created the British Mandate and
to suggest that anti semitism is why revolt is happening in Gaza is simply ahistorical in as much as it is not the sole reason as you are insinuating.
It doesn’t matter that Hamas and the IDF aren’t the same. Both are committing war crimes and human rights violations, and both need to be held accountable by the international community for this to end.
Only a deaf & blind person would agree with you.
But you need not look further than the Hamas & IJ videos showed, then the clear violation of hostage taking, using schools and hospitals for military planning, stealing food and shelter from Gaza citizens and using them as literal human shields.
But name one way Israel has violated international law. You can’t and that is what disturbs you the most.
I love that this is a well reasoned, measured and balanced presentation from someone so young. Gives me faith for the future. Thank you - subscribed.
Exactly!
😂😂😂
Thanks for watching my latest episode. Let me know your thoughts and opinions down below in a comment. If you like my content and want to support me, consider becoming a paying member of the Coleman Unfiltered Community here --> bit.ly/3B1GAlS
Do you accept criticism?
Hi Coleman,I usually really enjoy your content but i have to admit that this time it was quite boring to hear you and your guest constantly agree on all the classic mainstream talking points. I can just turn on th bbc if i want to hear such a one sided point of view .
@@alemarozz Glad to read this comment, not meaning to hurt Coleman's feelings (really), but it is reassuring to know that some Americans are willing or curious to hear about the other side of things.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye This”no moral equivalence “ theory comes from Sam Harris that has always been anti muslin in his geopolitical views. And im very surprised to see Coleman adopting the same position. I suspect Coleman is scared of the shitstorm that would come if he would be more nuanced on this topic
@@alemarozz I don't know Coleman. I'll check other video.
Morality is irrelevent to sctart wth.
How do you read the situation?
I’m curious. Hamas was voted in in 2005. Their charter, which explicitly states (Article 13): “There is no solution to the Palestinian question except through jihad.” I assume gazans were familiar with this, yet still voted for Hamas. 🤔The rest of this charter is equally disturbing. And, once again, thank you, Coleman 🙏❣️
Last election in Gaza held in 2006 with Hamas being the only option.
(How democratic that was).
50% of Gazans are under 18, and 75% were unborn/too young to have voted.
But sure, let’s keep holding innocent people responsible for a charter written on a piece of paper before they are even born.
I am sure they were but do you think for one second those animals would hesitate to kill other in Palestinian’s if they did not vote them into power??
@@hustle3011 I am not sure I understand your point. However, I reject the argument of moral relativism.
Killing innocent civilians intentionally or as collateral damage in name of "self-defense" is equally disgusting, barbaric, and criminal. No exceptions. Israel has been doing this for decades and getting away with it. I know it is hard to accept this, but that is the truth. So far Israel is collectively punishing 2.2 million people half of which are children. Feel free to find a way to justify Israel's actions. Personally, I can't, for either side. I don't accept this happening to any child WHATSOEVER regardless of who their ancestors voted/didn't vote for.
@@taroskib There are more than two million Palestinian Israelis who have equality under the law and lead much better lives than those in the West Bank and Gaza. What happened a week ago showed perfectly why Israel can never trust what is known as the 'outside Palestinians' and if they do not keep them on a tight leash they face certain genocide.
@@taroskibwhy doesn’t Hamas keep their military headquarters in a, you know, military base? Why do they shoot their rockets from behind apartment buildings and schools? Because they use their own civilians and human shields. They don’t give a flying f about their own people
What is missing in the discussion is the fact that a new country was created not in the void but in the land where people were already living for generations. There was no official voting to determine the opinion of the majority whether they would agree to partition their land which would create a new state. Things were kind of imposed then on the locals and they couldn’t do anything to oppose the decision of the UN.
@Munulys Exactly, they conveniently skip that part. There were people living in the land for centuries. Then the "european jews" (zionists) mass migrated to the land because if the nazis, with the claim that their God promised them the land 10,000 years ago?!..then Nakba happened, and continues to happen until this day.
Yes. People should look up the Balfour Declaration and how Zionists came by batches there.
it was all part of the Ottoman empire, Jordan was also created at the same time.
So clear-headed and such an amazing communicator of ideas. It’s easy-well , easier-to communicate emotion, to rile people up. Being able to engagingly communicate ideas and reason is such a rare talent.
Repeating talking points!Mr Hughes doesn't have the depth of experience or knowledge to present a nuanced conversation on this long standing issue.Just my opinion. Mother Grandmother lived in 3 continents and of a certain age.
I say this with respect knowing he needs to travel more to harness a more substantial world view of history to bring to the table. Still found value in the conversation.
Totally agree, he is completely out of his depth. You can hear the talking points verbatim from right wing media.
Talking points can = his own research and opinions which he’s allowed to have. So the only people able to discuss issues are people who have lived it? He’s supposed to go join the IDF or hamas and THEN talk? You sound like someone from the left who just wants to shut down/criticize conversation that is different from your own.
Of course you found value bc all conversations are valuable! He doesn’t need to travel to know bc even opinions from the outside looking in are still valuable. Maybe critical bc those intimately involved in the conflict can’t figure out a way for peace.
Gabor Mate, Aaron Mate, Norman Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, Katie Halper, Glenn Greenwald, Bri Joy Gray, just to name a few, could provide different perspectives. Your willingness to engage and stay curious is much appreciated.
That would expose how many false presuppositions he is operating on and it might be embarrassing. Notice how pro Israel he is and how he has only had a pro Israel quest on. Turns out he doesn't understand nuance is subtle differences and you can't really get differences when you are a mouth piece with hasbara talking points.
@@analienable1398 The people mentioned above are obviously mostly biased, Marxist inspired activists; imbalanced leftists viewing the entire world through their colonially coloured narratives; anachronistically blinded by ideology; crusaders with a monomaniacal conceptual/ideological parasitism; infected with Israel.
Coleman!!!
please note:
At 1917 when the British were given the Mandat over the Middle East they officially called the holy land "Palestine" (since the name was given for the first time around 135 C.E.)
The 1947 partition plan was to split Palestine between Arabs and Jews.
By the end of the war (1949) Palestine was indeed split: one part became Israel the other part was taken by Jordan.
The Arabs that stay under both sides refuse to recognize both Israel and Jordan as their new home and they just continue to use the old name of the place. They declined the sovereignty of Israel and Jordan. 😢
Thank you
Coleman, I am a new subscriber to your Chanel because of this conversation. It is so wonderful to hear an Afro American who has obviously done a lot of research on this topic and can understand the nuances of this very difficult situation. I am so disturbed with so many Americans who are so ignorant about the history and realities of the Middle East and are so quick to jump on the bandwagon of popular thought, reinterpreting what Apartheid means. When there are over a billion Arabs who identify as Antisemitic, per a survey done in 2018, let alone the antisemitic white supremists and others in the world, it is daunting for Jews to get world support. That is why the Jewish homeland is so critical. Very sad that even some American Jews don’t understand this and are also ignorant about their own history.
They are anti Isreali and not anti sematic a distinction you won't make because it doesn't support the argument you are trying to make.
That survey was done after Isreal IDF killed so many civilians in blanket bombing of Gaza just like this week.
@walan31 I get so fed up with the narrative on many of these videos. Last night I watched a few videos of former IDF, they speak out about their time in the army and how they saw themselves as terrorists.
Even before the Balfour declaration communications from Zionists clearly showed that the project of a Jewish home land intended colonisation and no Arab consent, they were to be an eye in the Middle East, spying for the West . If you live in terror your create terrorists. Britian and the rest of the West created terrorists through political interference, colonisation and invasion. At the time of the farcical British protectorate the British government called Jews terrorists along with the Arab population. The British made sure Arabs were stripped of any weaponsandd secretly armed the Jewish people who were smuggled into Palestine. They fully facilitated the Nakba. If you oppress people, steal their land, murder them, deny them human rights and treat them with humiliation day on day, those people will either be apathetic or fight back with any means at their disposal
I can speak from personal experience the Israelis are very adept at hiding behind their religion to commit atrocities. I live near two massive orthodox and hasidic enclaves in the NY/NJ area and they are not only separatists, but they have zero morals when it comes to outsiders. They have been slowly taking over a huge part of Central jersey by shady land deals, outright theft, arson, bribery, any shady thing necessary to get their way. They get into the town governments and start siphoning off money to their "community " that is supposed to be for the general public, they avoid paying taxes like it's ebola, and they are generally shitty people. You can't criticize their actions without being called an anti-semite, and they are a cancer to the community at large. They are adept at lawfare and will pool together as a group to push out outsiders before they go back to screwing each other over, which has destroyed many nice local towns that were once diverse and successful, which now pretty much look as shitty as Israel. I was brought up treating people as individuals and don't judge people on their outgroup, but this particular culture makes that sentiment impossible. If they had the chance they would erect walls and borders here to isolate their communities bc like I said, they're separatists and refuse to assimilate. They consider themselves the "chosen people ", and treat others as inferior. They're especially exploitative of the Hispanic community, through high rents for illegal immigrants and low wages for the same people when they do work for the orthodox. They also cut down all the trees in the town center to remove any relief the homeless population could get from the sun. I'm sorry, they're only good to each other, and just barely. These behaviors seem endemic to the religion and not dictated by geography. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just stating my observations
@@walan31Your thinly veiled distinction is obvious and incorrect. Anti-Isreal and anti-Semitic are the same thing.
@@Aaron-kq7rdIt’s funny you say that because ones of the definitions of being anti-Semitic is conflating being Jewish with support for the state of Israel. They’re not at all the same. Congrats on showing your true colors bud.
Coleman also doesn’t mention the 2018-2019 Gaza border protests where the IDF killed 223 protestors and wounded 13,000. No Israeli casualties. Where is the outrage, tears and concern ? Do the natives of the land not have the right to be angry and exact revenge ?
I honestly enjoyed your discussion. Informative and there is no shouting above each other and also anger. It’s rare these days.
A very enlightening conversation! Tqvm mr coleman for your logical but truthful analysis of the conflict. It takes much moral clarity and courage to stand for the truth. Looking forward to the 2nd part
Sidenote that's a genius tactic to boost both channels by splitting it in half on separate podcasts
5:00 This guy just embarrasses himself by repeating propaganda. According to the hostages themselves, it was the Israeli military that killed their friends with indiscriminate firing. According to Israeli newspapers, Hamas was nowhere near that concert. People were burnt by the Hellfire missiles fired from Apache helicopters. Houses were demolished just as in Gaza by tank shells fired by the military. Please explain how it is that Hamas went on a raping , killing spree, but then told the hostages that they would be safe that they are Muslims. Hamas is an organization that punishes people in the Gaza for extramarital affairs. Look at the utterances of the Palestinians in their time of trauma. Did you see them calling on God, and thanking God? I have no doubt that civilians were killed buy hummus during that operation, but the charges of rape came up 2 months after, because the IDF has been caught lying repeatedly, and so decided to pull this card out of the pack.
Through this conflict I took it upon myself to do the research and listen to all opinions on the matter. I found your channel and I appreciate the thoroughness you maintain during your conversation on this topic and others. Refreshing to hear someone try to give a unbiased perspective whilst informing people on the biased rhetoric that people on both sides might be using.
TL;DR, thanks for the great vids
You are brilliant, I enjoy listening to you. Your approach make sense to me
Thank you for walking through this calmly and rationally, having gone through the history.
A fantastic video on the history ruclips.net/video/qOyiXWepT30/видео.htmlsi=nvjHjRXAOeefxdAk
It's a Rabbit hole.
You CAN'T know it all.
It's
Good
Vs
Evil
It's a Rabbit hole.
You CAN'T know it all.
It's
Good
Vs
Evil
Appreciate your view
Hi Coleman; over from Andrew’s channel. Liked and subbed. Andrew is one of the kindest and most balanced journalists I have seen. I intend to reach out to him on another subject related to his upcoming book but it can wait for now because of this awful situation. I look forward to searching your channel and thank you for the conversation s tonight
Same here, I came over from Andrew’s channel. He’s one of the most thoughtful creators on RUclips and now I found another thoughtful creator.❤
I hope to see further collaborations between these thoughtful, intelligent RUclipsrs. *Applause & standing ovation to both of them*.
Coleman starts his podcast by saying he's quite sympathetic to the policies Israel has had to take to protect itself from terrorism. Israel was founded on terrorism. It has been non-stop. It started in the 20s and 30s with the Urgun and Stern gangs, amongst others. The Nakba in 1948 resulted in close to 1 million people having to flee for their lives. Hundreds of thousands of newly arrived migrants settled into Palestinian homes, took over Palestinian businesses, sent their children to Palestinian schools, went to Palestinian theaters, in short a new society was quickly built on the possessions of the exiled indigenous population. Israel was built on Palestine. Zionism is an extremist ideology that scorns coexistence, which is why Israel is constantly fighting with its neighbors and whittles down the West Bank. It's a never-ending line grab. Prior to the creation of Israel Jews Christians and Muslims coexisted and got along just fine. That fact is backed up by many rabbis. Then the zionists came and everything went to hell.
Israrl is at the heart of instability in that region. It woukd have had to worry little about terrorism if it wasnt the instigator of it.
Hamas talks out both sides its mouth. In once sentence they just want freedom and opportunity. In the next sentence they don't believe Israel has the right to exist. Very good conversation.
Just found your podcast, Coleman , and I’m floored by your breadth of knowledge and commitment to fairness and intolerance of the intolerant. Thankyou for your strong moral compass. Subbed!
I greatly enjoyed this podcast, even if I'm not sure I entirely agree with the views you expressed (mostly because I still feel like I don't know enough about the issue). One note, though. You understanbly said that Israel needs to retaliate, and to retaliate in such a way that would make another attack like this inconceivable. At the same time, you correctly noted how Hamas could have not only expected the retaliation but counted on it to further isolate Israel. I feel this is a conundrum worth of some further analysis and I regret you didn't dig deeper into it.
Also, I'd like to say that I feel the one thing truly lacking from the overall discussion about this events are Palestinian voices testifying about the conditions on the ground. Not because I think said conditions could justify what happened (nothing can), but because we can't claim we've investigated this issue unless we listen to both sides of the story. I know quite a few Palestinian refugees (not activists or terrorists, just regular people) and I don't see their experiences, which I have no reason to doubt, represented anywhere in the "podcast space."
Regardless, thank you for your honest attempt to dig into such a delicate topic.
As you said you need to learn more about the issue. Gaza doesn't want to be left alone, they want all of Israel & want all Jews (& all non Muslims dead). Those that can tolerate others either are having to hide & stay quiet so Hamas won't kill them or they simple agree with Hamas. Gaza has turned down a 2 state solution multiple times. Israel has been dissociated from Gaza since 2005 but still provides a decent amount of free water and electricity. Hamas has done nothing to make the area self sustainable because that is not their goal. No other Arab Muslim countries want the refugees because the likelihood of Hamas or Hamas supporters being among them is HIGH. Ultimately Hamas & its supporters are the people that caused this. Hamas is the current name, but organizations & Islamist government groups existed & attacked Jews for centuries - the displacement after WW2 didn't cause this hatred (because what other alternative sadly did the world have when Jews clearly needed a specific homeland to gather & heal? They were sent to the place most Jewish! Israel!)
any conditions in Gaza (which has poor who are super-poor and rich who are super-rich, so it’s not exactly how it’s presented in the news. they never show you the elite quarters and the luxury of it) sre due to Hamas. the onus for any suffering of Gazans is on Hamas. period.
with Hamas the reasons and goals aren’t murky. their genocidal intentions against Jews and Israel are in their charter.
it’s not a land dispute. not freedom fighting. they are Nazis. always been. and that’s the reason for everything they have.
Nelson Mandela called Palestine/Gaza an apartheid state. He said it was worse than in South Africa. I think he otta know
"I want to discuss with somebody who strongly disagrees with me on this issue."
This is the reason I keep listening to you even--or especially--when I don't agree with you. Bravo.
They never disagreed. Lol? They literally keep agreeing.
He was referring to when Coleman said that in the future he would like to discuss this issue with someone who strongly disagrees. The future. Not this conversation. @@donaldcharles3331
@@donaldcharles3331yeah, I was waiting for the disagreement. A great discussion non the less
@@Baker68 This was a mediocre discussion that puppets the same narrative as all the corporate media. If you want to see a more balanced view, Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal, Norman Finkelstein, Scott Horton, Dave Smith, or Kim Iverson. 2 of these people are Jewish, 2 are Journalists that have been to Israel and Palestine, and 2 are Libertarian and Anti-War. Scott Horton is extremely well read on the Military and all conflicts for 100 years. You think 2 kids are having an honest debate but its absolutely not.
@@donaldcharles3331I was quoting his closing remark, in which he clarifies what he intends to do in the future.
Might be time for an update video now that 30,000 people from Gaza are dead and many of the stories from October 7th have been found not to be true.
Thank you so much for being a voice of reason Coleman, and when listening to you it's so clear that it comes first and formost from true knowledge about the ongoing situation, and not falling to propaganda and slogans. So well thought of, so clear of thought, so much truth. A heartfelt thank you for being you.
Are you an American?
Nope. Israeli, so I know exactly what's been going on with this conflict for so long, and what both sides hope to accomplish...@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye
As an Israeli, I want to thank tou Coleman for showing a bit of the other side of the story. I am Israeli that knows the history and lived the conflict (I live in Jerusalem the heart of the conflict). Whenever I just answer comments with history and facts I get censored, people don't want to hear what I have to say. I wish someone would interview regular Israeli like me, who don't fit the narative even a bit, and just hear what people like us have to say about the conflict.
You Coleman are honestly the first and by now only person that makes sense. Keep it up, you have another fan in me.
11:14 The IDF did exactly this, call it intentional or not but this extremely militarized state had weak border security on october 7th, then they used this attack to justify bombing Palestinian civilians
What about the atrocities that the IDF have been commiting against the Palestinians for years?
Also where are all these videos of atrocities? Who has a links? I keep hearing about the carnage but can't find videos
Would like to see the evidence too. So we can know what is propaganda and what is the truth.
This. There are endless assertions of wrongdoing by both sides, with only scarce direct witness accounts, photographs, or video.
I respect Coleman, but for me this conversation is downstream of assertions of facts I have not been able to substantiate.
There's a lot of Israeli fake news. Coleman is a propagandist.
People are calling it “Apartheid” but I never remember there being a black South African version of Hamas and Nelson Mandela never called for the genocide of white Afrikaners.
You've got yourself one more dedicated viewer. Such intelligent clear clarification.Thanks both.
Coleman, you are doing what many people do when annaylizing the living conditions of the Palestinians. You, and others, describe the conditions as "open air prison", " fenced in", "occupation", etc... If any of those are true, I think they are, what you're missing is that it is justified. In the same way that all over the world governments collect people and control their every movement. They are called " prisons". We all approve of prisons because we understand that crime is unacceptable in a civilized society. That's why things are the way they are. If no terrorism occurred, then there would be no walls. Like duh..
New sub from South Africa 🇿🇦
Love how reasoned, rational, measured, logical, yet humane you are
Thank you 🙏🤗
To the black giy: Nelson Mandela was also part of the terrorist list of the usa up until 2008. Just keep that in mind before calling hamas a terrorist organization
Thankful for a thoughtful and reasoned discussion. The entire situation is just so dismally and depressingly familiar.
Excellent pod! One correction: The Biden administration did increase the likelihood of Oct 7 as they removed sanctions on Iran, unlocking billions of dollars of oil sales. Compare Iran’s economy under Trump vs Biden. Big difference. Keep up good work!
The amount of inaccuracies in this podcast is outstanding. I suggest you do a lot more research before you start giving a 50 minute lecture on the situation in the Levant
I know im late commenting on this video .. ive only just come across this channel. I just wanted to appreciate how calm the discussion was and also (and im being serious) the speed at which you spoke . So refreshing .. i felt like i learnt more than i have this past year listening to one or two of your talks.
One thing stood out to me in particular. If Hamas is hiding in places that civilians are, Why not go in with your TRAINED ARMY and capture them, instead of forcing people with no where to go out of the city or bombing innocent people?
Thank you 🇬🇧
Much like how ending the discussion at "hitler was evil" paralyzes any attempt to understand why germans embraced his message leading to a holocust. Ending the discussion at "hamas is evil" keeps us from understanding why palestinians would vote for that to be their representation.
Humanizing evil helps us to recognize when it exists in ourselves and also help us to prevent it from happening again.
Excellent observation. While humanizing evil, we must also figure out how to confront and eradicate it, without engaging in evil acts ourselves. That is the difficult part. Merely understanding why human beings perpetrate evil doesn’t solve the problem. But I think the point you make is a very important one.
I know RFK Jr. well, and have talked with him *at length* regarding Israel and Palestine. Toooooooo much to say about this for my thumbs here. But, in short, RFK Jr. is not "okay" with how Israel treats the Palestinians, and he knows full well the hell they endure (never mind the unimaginable Hell they are in now while being bombed mercilessly and with no aid coming, nor any way to escape Gaza). His recent tweet and interviews were not in support of Israel attacking Gaza the way it has. It was about developing a sustained military campaign to defend itself from Hamas. It is beyond heartbreaking - appalling what the Palestinians endure from Israel. But what is never mentioned, by folks on the 'left', is that if Israel became completely passive and just lived in their nation without any offensive stance, then their nation would be obliterated. Much of the 'left' in the US don't seem to realize that Israel is completely surrounded by nations who hate them (with hundreds of millions of citizens in those countries) and many of whom (a minority, but still a large and determined number) express freely that they want Israel destroyed. This is the position not because of Israel's brutal occupation (which is obviously brutal and beyond terrible for the innocent people in Palestine), but it is these nations' positions towards Israel anyway - just by being there. It is a fact, that none of the nations surrounding Israel have ever been shy about expressing, and if they had the power to, acting on destroying Israel. And so Israel becomes more and more aggressive, right-wing, hardline, etc. The situation is beyond terrible, but not so simply 'good vs bad' either/or. It is all very complicated, far beyond what my thumbs are saying here. I really do pray for every person suffering through it all.
For those of us paying attention to the RFK Jr. campaign and sharing concern for his position on Israel and Palestine, here's something from his close advisor Charles Eisenstein :
'I remain an adviser to the campaign not because I’m willing to swallow the Palestine disagreement for a greater cause, but because of certain personal qualities I have seen in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that give me confidence that he will change his mind. First is humility, borne of his history of addiction and recovery that has taught him that he is no better nor worse than any other man. With humility comes a willingness to listen and cling less tightly to being right. Second is compassion: he is a very kind man who cares especially for those who have been left out. Third is sympathy for the underdog. He knows firsthand how dominant powers can distort the truth, turn blame onto victims, make criminals out of heros, and marginalize voices of protest. It is only a matter of time, I believe, before he recognizes that pattern in Israel's relations with the Palestinians.'
As we all (should) know, all commercial media in the U.S and both political parties are owned stem to stern, to the nickel, by the very same institutions: the pharmaceutical industry, insurance industry, oil industry, military industrial complex and Wall Street. And all of those are essentially owned by Black Rock, State Street and Vanguard. To distract the people from this realization and its virtually endless ramifications, we are given this embarrassing divide-and-conquer 2-party duopoly whose tactics are a handful of social/cultural issues as a disguise of distinction - a distraction. In other words, the powers that be couldn't care less whether you listen to msnbc or fox news, as long as you're duped by one or the other - as they laugh to the Cayman Islands, while running our nation to the ground and shamelessly and without conscience dividing our people further apart.
I was a big supporter of Bernie in 2015-16 and 19-20. This time around I'm a supporter of RFK Jr. In short, random order, here's my reasons for supporting RFK Jr...
-genuinely wants to unite the country, and he has the ability to, being liked by many 'conservative' and 'rural' Americans
-calm, humble, has integrity, has courage, truth seeker in general, thinks for himself - not a DNC puppet
-not phony
-wants to get us out of 'forever wars' and pull back on and expose the military industrial complex
-wants to pull back NATO and resolve the Ukraine problem via good faith negotiations
-wants to get rid of 'Citizens United'
-vocal about putting an end to corporate capture over government (pharma, banks, oil, military industrial complex)
-vocal about dishonesty and agendas of commercial media
-wants to abolish all pharmaceutical advertisements on television
-wants to keep the pharmaceutical industry honest with safety testing, transparency, etc
-wants to get rid of government assist crony capitalism and subsidies for big ag, oil, etc
-advocate for civil liberties
-vocally against censorship
-against mandates and police state-like policies
-classic liberal sensibilities with respect of others, without the 'woke' bullsh*t or fake identity politics
-vocal commitment to transparency regarding FBI, CIA, NSA over-stepping and out-stepping
-passionate about environmental and ecological concerns
-wants to close the border (this is not some republican scare issue, it is a very major issue - for many reasons)
-has an excellent plan to make homes affordable for all, including a program that backs mortgages at 3% and a tax structure to keep Black Rock from continuing to buy everyone out (this also will bring rent cost down dramatically)
-due to his family/background, he's well-learned from the inside of the various power structures
-due to his decades as an attorney successfully taking on major corporations as well as government regulatory corruption, he is exceptionally well-suited for taking on the myriad of corporate capture over our government and the policies which ensue
This is RFK Jr.'s daughter-in-law (interviewed 7 years ago), who is now his campaign manager. If you want to get some insight on how RFK Jr. also sees things regarding the many nuances and perspectives in the Middle East (and the world), perhaps watch this video...
ruclips.net/video/7WEd34oW9BI/видео.html
One thing I don't really understand about Hamas is that that if they have been the government of Gaza for 15 years, then who is the mayor of Gaza, or the top local official who runs the city, and why do we not hear his name?
Its a militant theocracy, and not a democracy. Hence no mayor.
And it’s leader kicks his feet up and counts his cash in Qatar.
Ismail Haniyeh
It’s not the behavior of those seeking a nation, but it is the behavior of individuals seeking an empire.
Very thoughtful and thought provoking conversation. Respect.
I've watched years of legal, religious,military history and philosophy.
This guys a MORON!
He knows so little, it should be Embarrassing
I’m glad I stumbled across your Ted talk Coleman. You have wisdom beyond your years. Thoroughly enjoy listening to your well thought out positions. Thank you for what you do. Keep it up!
My main concern is what I think is missing context in the discussion of Hamas' behavior vs. the state of Israel's. First, I of course must acknowledge the obvious fact that Hamas' actions in terms of massacres of Israeli civilians and how it has portrayed them is absolutely barbaric. And I don't wish to get into a debate about moral equivalence, because I will be not trying to claim that Israel is somehow as guilty or cruel as Hamas is. What I do wish to establish is a rather nuanced concern about your statement that Hamas uses Palestinian human shields to garner sympathy for their cause. My concern is not that Hamas does not do this, as in some cases they certainly do. But this is not the full explanation of why thousands of residents of Gaza have died in past conflicts with Israel and I fear that when the discussion of human shields is stated without the full context, it can, whether intended or not, inaccurately present Israel as morally blameless in their attempt to target Hamas, when in fact the Israeli military has deliberately targeted civilian targets outside of the context of any human shields scenario.
Amnesty International, a very well respected human rights organization, reported (linked here) after Israel's battles with Hamas in 2009 on p. 55 of the linked report above that
"Israeli government and army spokespeople have insisted that only Hamas command facilities,
weapons stores, combat positions, and houses which contained tunnels or were booby-
trapped were targeted, and that damage to civilian infrastructure was incidental or resulted
from Hamas using the civilian population as a “human shield”.
Some of the properties targeted in the Israeli air bombardment campaign or in other attacks
by Israeli forces may have been used to store or manufacture rockets whose destruction
would not violate international humanitarian law. In other cases, destruction of and damage
to homes and other civilian property resulted from armed confrontations between Israeli
forces and Palestinian militants after Israeli forces entered Gaza on 3 January, and took
positions in and around Palestinian villages and in the outskirts of towns. In these areas, both
Israeli forces and Palestinian militants used Palestinian homes and other civilian properties
as combat positions.
However, in reality, the targeting of military objectives and incidental damage resulting from
such attacks or from armed confrontations account for only some of the overall devastation.
Much of the destruction was wanton and resulted from deliberate and unnecessary
demolition of property, direct attacks on civilian objects and indiscriminate attacks that
failed to distinguish between legitimate military targets and civilian objects. Such attacks
violated fundamental provisions of international law, notably the prohibition on direct attacks
on civilian objects, the prohibition on indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, the
prohibition of destruction of property not required by imperative military necessity, and the
prohibition on collective punishment."
Similarly, in 2021, Human Rights Watch reported
"The Israeli military and Palestinian authorities have a long track record of failing to investigate laws of war violations committed in or from Gaza.
Human Rights Watch investigated three Israeli strikes that killed 62 Palestinian civilians where there were no evident military targets in the vicinity...Israeli forces carried out attacks in Gaza in May that devastated entire families without any apparent military target nearby."
In a Q&A from the 2014 conflict, Amnesty International stated in Q&A format:
"The Israeli authorities claim that Hamas and Palestinian armed groups use Palestinian civilians in Gaza as “human shields”. Does Amnesty International have any evidence that this has occurred during the current hostilities?
Amnesty International is monitoring and investigating such reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. In previous conflicts Amnesty International has documented that Palestinian armed groups have stored munitions in and fired indiscriminate rockets from residential areas in the Gaza Strip in violation of international humanitarian law. Reports have also emerged during the current conflict of Hamas urging residents to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate. However, these calls may have been motivated by a desire to minimize panic and displacement, in any case, such statements are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as “human shields” for fighters, munitions, or military equipment. Under international humanitarian law even if “human shields” are being used Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply."
As clearly indicated in the last quote above, my point is not to argue that Hamas does not use human shields, but that if it is implied that such use is the sole or main reason for the loss of civilian life and property, then it is ignoring what human rights organizations have found to be, in the words used Amnesty International's 2009 report, Israel's actions of "Wanton Destruction in Gaza" that have killed thousands of innocent civilians and destroyed thousands of homes. Given that these reports cover repeated conflicts, it seems logical to assume that Israel will also target civilian areas where there is no clear military target or suspected Hamas presence in the upcoming conflict and that the issue of human shields, rather than being nuanced, will be used as a blanket justification for the deaths of civilians, when it is not the case, which regardless of Hamas' utter depravity, is inexcusable. If you have any evidence that the majority of deaths in past or the current conflict in Gaza are a result of human shields, I would appreciate you referring me to the source.
You won’t get a source. The agenda is to push Israeli victimhood and excuse decades of avoiding a lasting peace and mistreating Palestinians. Ultimately for Zionist fanatics, religious and ethnic cleansing is the plan.
Thank you, Adam, for being the a lone voice of reason and skepticism among a sea of comments by blind people agreeing to agree that Israel is blameless and that Coleman's conversation is all it could be and spotless. And thank you for actually caring enough to DO THE PROPER RESEARCH about what has been happening for all the decades prior to this moment, and finding that the facts are NOT as they are being represented by MSM or by everyone on RUclips who gives their opinion, regardless of whether they know anything more than superficial about it.
Thank you so much for being another voice of reason. I have long held the same views. Incidentally it won't surprise me if Israel seek out to massacre every last Palestinian and claim the whole of Palestine for their own.
Keep holding your breath. Finding true and accurate info regarding this issue is impossible. Amnesty International using words like "wanton" in and of itself reveals their own bias. I'm not saying it's not true, just pointing out getting real info about this will not happen.
With the greatest respect, humanitarian organisations are proven to be politically captured and so are not a neutral barometer with which to judge
Hey Coleman, what do you think about the 750,000 Arabs expelled from their homes and forced to live in refugee camps for the founding of Israel? What do you think of Deir Yasin and the King David hotel?
Do you really think it’s ok to expel so many people from their land?
On the argument for whether Palestinians face an apartheid, although there are no outright miscegenation laws in Israel, there are various social barriers that make it challenging for the two races to get married. And when they do, there are a host of legal restrictions against them, for example the Knesset passed a law denying naturalization to Palestinians from occupied West Bank or Gaza married to Israeli citizens, this primarily affects women and children and has been deemed as collective punishment by the UN. If it weren't for the horrific PR Israel would have on an international scale, they would certainly pass a law barring such relations, we can assume so based on the strategies they already use to diminish its existence. Another angle to consider about the 'moral equivalence between Hamas and Israel', is whether the piecemeal fashion of ethnic cleansing and deliberate starvation of the populace by blocking resources such as food, water and medication, by the supposed moral high ground of the IDF, is somehow 'more ethical' because it is not outright slaughter of the Arab-Muslims but rather a systematic slow death. The world has its eyes on Israel, and it could not get away with its ethnic cleansing aspirations on a higher scale if it wanted to, as it would quickly lose any support it has remaining from its allies. How is the barring of resources such as perishables and turning off power for 2 million humans, 1 million of those being children, a higher form of moral equivalency by the IDF? How is it ''collateral damage'' exactly? That is collective punishment. Hiding behind the guise of collateral damage to justify the asymmetry of morality between the two groups is a poor argument if you're concerned with ending human suffering. Sam Harris regularly talks about a ''Moral Landscape'' we can navigate to choose better forms of ending human suffering, well what landscape of choosing the best route for our morals does this fall on exactly when your only choice is to to displace 1 million people and campaign bomb them indiscriminately without food and water for children? To hand-wave it away as the only viable option to stamp out terrorism, despite the IDF having one of the most powerful and technologically advanced militaries in the world, is lazy thinking, and morally egregious.
Exactly, not to mention Netanyahu literally made a coalition government with groups that are calling for a one-state solution that is only Israel, while Arabs would be expelled. There’s literally groups in the Israeli government that encourage further settlements in West-Bank and want Israeli sovereignty over Temple Mount, in an attempt to destroy Al Aqsa Mosque and build a third temple. Additionally, not only did Netanyahu align with these groups he’s also looking to reform the Supreme Court and give himself even more power and authority. It’s funny how western media just ignore all these things, along with the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and West-Bank just to paint Israel as the “good guys.” These guys are arguing that Israel just wants peace when Israelis assassinated their prime minister in 1994 for making progress in peace talks with the Oslo Accords.
Coleman, your analysis shows your deep understanding of the complexity of the situation. That can not be taken for granted since most Westerners who refer to themselves as experts acutely miss many parts of the puzzle and can't offer true insights like you just did. You're a brilliant young man. Thank you❤
Vengeance is a terrible thing and that is why God in the Bible forbids us to pursue it. Regardless of your religion, it is hard to to give over to God our desperate feelings and let Him be judge. This conflict is the result of centuries of getting even. And as you said, Coleman, there is plenty of guilt to go around.
Both Jews and Arabs have lived in this land throughout history. An offering of a two state solution has been refused by Hamas. Nothing but the destruction of all Jews is their only goal.
What a wise, lovely, respectful discussion between you two. How beautiful to see two people who might be adversaries discuss difficult issues together in openness & with a desire to promote caring. Bless you both ❤
"Jihad is not holy war wheres that in the worship? Murdering is not Islam and you are not observant."
Coleman, I learned so much from you today - thank you both.
You have been indoctrinated not educated learn the difference.
I strongly disagree with you mr coleman. Id debate you any time anywhere. You didnt even know on rogans podcast that netanyahu knew the oct 7th attacks were coming. I thought you were an expert bud. But all you do is spread misinformation.
If you imprison people for almost two decades they will go crazy.
Coleman's recap of 7th October should be viral! Just to remind idiots(BBC for example)of exactly what happened!
This isn't a nuanced discussion. It's an in-depth discussion of why Israel is right - it's not balanced at all.
The history tells me to side with Israel. My gut tells me to side wity Israel. This recent violence affirms this. I feel for the suffering of palestinians...
Here we go: What happenned is that ON OCT 7TH…!!! Giving no context for oct 7th events is the sign of absolute bias. You will now try to disguise plausible genocide as defendable actions. But you have lost much of yr audience right then off the batt.
@9:35 So actually, I checked and Gaza is NOT one of the most densely populated areas of the world. Gaza has a population density of 5900 people per square km, up to 8000 on the most dense areas. To put into perspective Manila 43000 people per square kilometer, Gaza would not even make it in the top 100 most populated cities in the world. If you think about it, 2.2m people is not even a village in China
Coleman, the very fact that you pointed out such a small mistake about the year of the UN Partition Plan seriously put a tear in my eye. I have been so discouraged these days by the enormous amount of disinformation out there, and I am also scared by what appears to be a purposeful commitment to being uninformed for the sake of being part of a "tribe." You are doing such important work, I cannot thank you enough! Except maybe contributing to your channel with some money, but I don't currently have much disposable income. When I do, I certainly will.
Would love to hear you discuss this with Kim Iversen
People really just don't know history. Too many over simplify any thing they hear. Ex since Israel as we know it was created after WW2, all they incorrectly infer is that Israeli's were never there & in control of the land prior, which is not true.
Plus Pakistan and most of the Middle East countries and new east European borders were also created around that time.
Nuanced view? I've only watched 20 minutes and Coleman sounds so naive it's just painful to listen further.
Nuanced view with a Jew, no Palestinians present of course.
Very sane and welcome discussion, thank you.
I would not call that nuanced if you have no past conversations with Palestinians history experts. I saw your conversation with the Israeli historian, which glanced over Naqbah. Have more conversations with people who are not pro-israel like Zachary Foster.
Those who haven't watched Coleman's interview with Israeli historian Benny Morris, I can highly recommend it for more historical background of the conflict.
To put this into perspective, in a few hours Hamas appears to have killed over 1,400 people and kidnapped over 200 people.
This is the per capita equivalent of the US losing (341 million US population)/(9.2 million Israeli population) * 1,400 or well over 50,000 Americans being killed in a few hours.
How would the USA react if well over 50 thousand Americans died in a few hours? And if well over 7,000 Americans were kidnapped in a few hours?
This is such a complex and ancient conflict that has so so many layers going back to biblical times. Thank you for covering this with such nuance.
This has nothing to do with biblical times. The Palestinians are not Philistines. The Philistines were Sea Peoples from Crete, Greece, the Palestinians are Arab Levantines. The Palestinians are a created Arab people made up in 1964 as a psy-ops of the KGB and PLO.
It's not. It's simple. European powers namely UK and France needed support during WWI from European Jews so they told them do us this favour and we will ship you to your promised land and signed Belfore declaration outlining this promise. Britain and France double crossed Arabs and promised them independence if they supported them in WWI against turks and then colonised them. Europe lead by UK and France felt that the Arab Muslim allies they dispised and often describe as " barbaric savages" are to rebellious to be left alone unchecked and carried ahead with shipping off European jews who didn't feel safe in Europe after WWII as anti sematism was an on going issue 100 years begore Nazi raised. UK thought great let's us in EU support unloading our Jews and make them someone else problem by building Jewish settlement in Palestine. They formed Jewish European miltant to start a war of siezing by extreme violence Palestinian lands and homes.... But start the war only when the UK leaves, so UK can say it wasn't me.
This conflict is about colonial powers holding to as much power against others they view as less than by any means necessary
@@walan31very biased one sided story. If you really researched the subject, you’d find out there were Jewish people in this land long before British mandate and Ottoman Empire. The ones who came from Europe were refugees from ww2. And what you forgot to mention, there were a lot of refugees from muslim countries in Middle East and North Africa
@@not4you___nold J. Toynbee who, before becoming recognized as an eminent world historian had dealt directly with the Palestine Mandate in the British Foreign Office, wrote in 1968:
“All through those 30 years, Britain (admitted) into Palestine, year by year, a quota of Jewish immigrants that varied according to the strength of the respective pressures of the Arabs and Jews at the time. These immigrants could not have come in if they had not been shielded by a British chevaux-de-frise. If Palestine had remained under Ottoman Turkish rule, or if it had become an independent Arab state in 1918, Jewish immigrants would never have been admitted into Palestine in large enough numbers to enable them to overwhelm the Palestinian Arabs in this Arab people’s own country. The reason why the State of Israel exists today and why today 1,500,000 Palestinian Arabs are refugees is that, for 30 years, Jewish immigration was imposed on the Palestinian Arabs by British military power until the immigrants were sufficiently numerous and sufficiently well-armed to be able to fend for themselves with tanks and planes of their own. The tragedy in Palestine is not just a local one; it is a tragedy for the world, because it is an injustice that is a menace to the world’s peace.” 147
My family went through Apartheid and what is happening there is very similar, from what Lebanese and Iranian people tell me. I have also seen places where people have to have passbooks to enter certain areas of The West Bank. The foundation of Apartheid was control based upon race. I have even heard Israelis tell me that most Israelis treat Palestinians and Iranians like second class citizens because they are not Jewish.
That sounds a lot like Apartheid. Actually, I have heard a lot of South African Jews say that Israel promotes Apartheid in their region on The Middle East. I never understood it until now.
Coleman... The Gaza strip is not part of Israel. It is a distinct geographical and political entity. It is one of two Palestinian territories.