I have two Bear Vaults I use on wilderness canoe trips. You should mention that these the vaults aren't odor proof. A bear CAN smell the food inside a bear vault and it definitely attracts them. I purchased odor proof bags that I use as vault liners. Using an odor proof liner inside the bear vault is the best method of protection. In 40 years of wilderness trips, I have never had a bear even find my food, let alone try to break into it. Also, it should be communicated that it is often very difficult to find the perfect place to hang a bag from - 10 feet up, 10 feet down, and ten feet out from the trunk. I've had friends spend hours trying to find a suitable tree to hang their food from. Worse yet, in some areas bears have actually taught their cubs to climb the tree and chew through the rope that hangs the bag. Bye bye food. A vault and an odor proof liner is the ticket to bear proofing your food in the wild. Unfortunately, they don't lend themselves well to backpacking due to the volume they occupy. For canoe trips though they are great. Lastly, the worst animal pests on any kind of wilderness trip are mice. I've seen them chew through backpacks and get into people's food many times. Whatever protection you use, make sure it's mouse proof too.
Great video! As you said: while bears are the biggest (literally and figuratively) concern, if you're doing a tree hang system consider what you're using and how you're hanging it so that smaller animals (raccoons, squirrels and other rodents) can't reach your hanging bag and get into it. When I was a Boy Scout at the Philmont backpacking camp in New Mexico, the squirrels were so relentless we called them "mini-bears", they got into our troop's hanging food at least once in a ten-day trek. I would expect that's why it's better to use thin cord vs. a rope thick enough for rodents to climb out on?
The bear canister she's using is the low end type I've seen one that a bear crushed. If your doing hiking in the ADK they don't even allow you to use that brand of bear canister.
Using an Opsak in a bear canister or bag keeps the smells at bay. No, don’t talk to a ranger if you want. Absolutely talk to a ranger. Make a list of questions if you have to.
This REI presenter rocks. I look forward to trying this method and the PCT method. I am also going to try to add a few cliff bars to my tent stake bag for a rock bag.
The sad truth is, ...there is no perfect method. There are only worse or better. And each depends upon the contents of the bag/canister. The duration of cooking/eating. The foods being cooked/eaten. And how well you have "cleaned up" your area(s) after cooking/eating. This includes your cookware, utensils, clothing, hands/mouth, skin/hair, ...and your trash. Until you possess completely scent-proof bags/containers (good luck with that), ...your decisions must be, ...which location you wish to attract the animals to, ...and from how far away you wish to attract them. If you want the furthest reach, ...hang the bag off the ground where the air/breeze can circulate the smells all night long. On the flipside, ...when the air is stagnate, ...a canister on the ground can "pool" and "concentrate" the smells, ...giving a strong "homing signal" to attract the animals. So be prepared for both methods depending upon the weather. Do not "get hungry" in the middle of the night and go for the bag/canister. You will be moving directly into the area attracting the animals. Be aware of possible game trails that may be nearby or may lead to your bag/canister, ...and cooking/eating locations. Do not establish any "restroom" locations that may cross those areas in the middle of the night. Make everyone in your party aware of approved locations and "why". Again, ...until your canister/bag is truly "scent-proof" you must think of this in terms of "luring/attracting" the animals. And where you want that place to be. If canisters and bags "worked" at masking/preventing smells, ..we would just keep them in camp with us, ...and only concern ourselves with where we cook and eat. And lastly, ...canisters "could" be made scent-proof. Make no mistake about it. But here's the rub. What if the food the animal is after is you? You might be glad you have that "decoy" drawing them away from camp to give them something to toil away at all night, ...a puzzle to solve, ...while you sleep peacefully.
In the Adirondacks they are extremely specific about which containers are allowed. The Backpacker's Cache - Bear Proof Container is one of just a few. The Bear Vault is not allowed. Thank you Yellow-Yellow 😉 Meanwhile, 100 miles north in Canada, they’re all using the PCT hang or tying Kevlar bags to trees. 🤷♂️
if a bear wants your food it can get it. the object is to make it difficult. twice i have been awoke by a black bear in a tree trying for my food. both times i was able to run them off. i will never keep food in my tent or not hang. i prefer PTC method.
I never worry about bears stealing my backpacking food supplies. But then, I live in Scotland....... The haggis however! Now they can climb, little known fact..... Finding a truly haggis proof container is a challenge.
Yes it is, but if you have to hang your food and are in an area where tree branches aren’t long enough to get your food far enough away from the tree trunk, this is your only feasible option.
The prerequisite for a PCT hang is a tall tree with a strong, long branch sufficiently high. Such trees and branches are non-existant in some places. The hang shown (in insufficient detail) here only requires two trees sufficiently tall (say 5-6 meters) and sufficiently far apart (6 meters or so). The branches can be fairly short and weak and the sting can pass close to the trunk. Also, a variation of this hang can be improvised with various combinations of large rocks and trees. And I would like to ask what REI thinks of hanging an Ur-sac. The only time I had a problem with hanging food, it was the Stellar's Jays that ripped a hole in the bag, so minimal odor plus difficult in access seems the better plan to me.
Definitely, it will be a container and not a bag! Even if the bag is a lighter option. All the trouble to find the right place and make sure that it works well. I prefer the weight of a container and not the hassle for the rest;)
Thank you for these tips! What do you think about smelly leather boots and the backpack itself with clothes and equipment in the tent? Should I worry about it? Where or how do you store it in the night? I would really like to avoid bear visits at night!
LokSak is expensive trash!! My sister gave me a tiny LokSak bag to replace a bulky container I used for my first-aid kit. At first I thought it was awesome, until the zipper closure delaminated from the bag rendering it useless. I was at REI just the other day and was about to buy some large bags for food storage and looked at the packaging expecting to see a lifetime warranty label. I didn't see one, so I decided to hold off on the purchase until I reviewed the warranty policy. After my first-aid kit bag failed I learned first-hand that LokSak doesn't stand behind their products. I would never buy anything from LokSak after learning that they don't warranty a product after 30 days. My bag was almost brand new and barely used. There was no reason for it to fail and LokSak told me it was past it's warranty period. REI shouldn't carry such overpriced trash. It takes away from the quality people expect when they buy products from REI.
The hanging method she uses is tricky and vulnerable. I would only use that when there are no single trees large enough. You need a stout live branch extending at least 10' from the trunk at least 25' up. You'll need a small stick or metal toggle, a small bag with a rock or other weight in it, a carabiner, and 50 feet or more of slick, or waxed, strong narrow line - amsteel works really well. Now tie the small sack with a rock to one end of your line and toss it over a branch so the line hangs at least 6' away from the trunk. Further is even better. I disagree with her on this. 5' is not far enough. A large black bear can reach this far from the trunk. I aim for at least 8', but usually you can find a branch with plenty of room to get even further out. With practice you can make the line toss on the first or second try most of the time - arborists make much higher tosses with accuracy to get line over a dead branch. Have the stick or metal toggle handy, either in your hand or in your pocket. Take the small rock sack off your line and use the carabiner to attach your food sack in its place. Put a bowline in the end of the line to do this. If you don't have a carabiner, just tying a bowline to a loop on your food sack will suffice. Now, run the free end of the line THROUGH the carabiner (or the loop of the bowline) and pull on it to hoist the bag up as far as you can (all the way to the branch - trust me on this). Tie the stick or metal toggle into the line at head-height using a clove or marlinspike hitch. This takes a little practice, because the line is under tension from the weight of the food sack. I prefer using the marlinspike hitch because it's easier to tie and more secure. Once the toggle is secure, pay out your line. As the bag comes back down, the toggle will catch in the carabiner, leaving your bag hung securely halfway between your head and the branch. On a branch 25' feet up, if you are 5' tall, your bag will be 15' off the ground and 10' below the branch. If an animal pulls on the line, the bag goes up, not down. If they chew through the line they can reach, nothing happens (unlike the two-tree-method in this video). In the morning, pull on the line until you can reach the toggle and pull it out (it will come out easily and your hitch will come loose). Now you can pay out the line until your bag is all the way down to the ground. Many people call this the PCT method. Joe Brewer did a good video demo a few years ago - I'll paste a link into the first reply to this comment. Practice it in a park at home until you feel comfortable before trying it on the trail.
how come you didn't spray the bag with ammonia so it throws off the scent if it stinks which ammonia does the animals don't want anything just a small spritz bottle like a 4 oz depending on how long you are going to play in the woods
An ammonia and hot chilie sauce mixture (small spray bottle) is what I use...it also can be used instead of pepper spray for aggressive dogs as well as black bears. ✌ 👣 👑 👑
ya if you smell bad not like some sort of food the animal goes away your scent is what attracts them like your dog food? they are just hungry but being they're predators and hungry your ass in on the menu
Unless only tiny animals investigate your canister, turning it upside down is useless. The first thing any animal large enough is going to do is turn that thing around with paws or muzzle. It's going to be flipped and rolled around. Hang the canister. The only reason to carry a canister is to meet regs in your area. I strongly disagree with her statement that there are better options than hanging your food. The only better option is a locker, but you won't find those in the back country. If hung properly, a hang is the only truly effective method. Two simple knots and some practice and you can hang anything, including a canister. I've never had a hang disturbed, but I've had canisters be gone in the morning or turn up hundreds of yards away from where I left them (that's why I started hanging canisters). The best option is to store everything in odor resistant ziplocks (mylar or special plastics) inside either an Ursack or canister, then hang it. You'll need to tie a harness around a canister, but that's easy to do with a little practice.
wimmisky The presenter is fine. And it’s REI’s official position that canisters are better than hanging, especially in bear country with smart bears: www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/bear-resistant-canisters.html
"The only better option is a locker, but you won't find those in the back country." Beg to differ. Kings Canyon and Sequoia National Parks and Yosemite have bear lockers in many of the camping areas.
Bears have learned to associate certain smells with backpackers, and to associate backpackers with food. If a bear smells sunscreen, it knows backpackers are nearby, which means food is nearby, so they wander towards it.
At time stamp 11:39 she says you don't want to store it near a rock because an animal can pick up the rock and smash it. If an animal picks up that rock just give him the damn food! Hahahaha
I have two Bear Vaults I use on wilderness canoe trips. You should mention that these the vaults aren't odor proof. A bear CAN smell the food inside a bear vault and it definitely attracts them. I purchased odor proof bags that I use as vault liners. Using an odor proof liner inside the bear vault is the best method of protection. In 40 years of wilderness trips, I have never had a bear even find my food, let alone try to break into it. Also, it should be communicated that it is often very difficult to find the perfect place to hang a bag from - 10 feet up, 10 feet down, and ten feet out from the trunk. I've had friends spend hours trying to find a suitable tree to hang their food from. Worse yet, in some areas bears have actually taught their cubs to climb the tree and chew through the rope that hangs the bag. Bye bye food. A vault and an odor proof liner is the ticket to bear proofing your food in the wild. Unfortunately, they don't lend themselves well to backpacking due to the volume they occupy. For canoe trips though they are great.
Lastly, the worst animal pests on any kind of wilderness trip are mice. I've seen them chew through backpacks and get into people's food many times. Whatever protection you use, make sure it's mouse proof too.
Boy am I glad I live in New Zealand..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I'm glad you live there too.
Adam Hamzah kiwis tend to be pretty soft
@Your Favorite Bucket spiders? No thank you
Great video! As you said: while bears are the biggest (literally and figuratively) concern, if you're doing a tree hang system consider what you're using and how you're hanging it so that smaller animals (raccoons, squirrels and other rodents) can't reach your hanging bag and get into it. When I was a Boy Scout at the Philmont backpacking camp in New Mexico, the squirrels were so relentless we called them "mini-bears", they got into our troop's hanging food at least once in a ten-day trek. I would expect that's why it's better to use thin cord vs. a rope thick enough for rodents to climb out on?
The bear canister she's using is the low end type I've seen one that a bear crushed. If your doing hiking in the ADK they don't even allow you to use that brand of bear canister.
Using an Opsak in a bear canister or bag keeps the smells at bay.
No, don’t talk to a ranger if you want.
Absolutely talk to a ranger. Make a list of questions if you have to.
This REI presenter rocks. I look forward to trying this method and the PCT method. I am also going to try to add a few cliff bars to my tent stake bag for a rock bag.
The sad truth is, ...there is no perfect method. There are only worse or better. And each depends upon the contents of the bag/canister. The duration of cooking/eating. The foods being cooked/eaten. And how well you have "cleaned up" your area(s) after cooking/eating. This includes your cookware, utensils, clothing, hands/mouth, skin/hair, ...and your trash.
Until you possess completely scent-proof bags/containers (good luck with that), ...your decisions must be, ...which location you wish to attract the animals to, ...and from how far away you wish to attract them. If you want the furthest reach, ...hang the bag off the ground where the air/breeze can circulate the smells all night long. On the flipside, ...when the air is stagnate, ...a canister on the ground can "pool" and "concentrate" the smells, ...giving a strong "homing signal" to attract the animals. So be prepared for both methods depending upon the weather.
Do not "get hungry" in the middle of the night and go for the bag/canister. You will be moving directly into the area attracting the animals.
Be aware of possible game trails that may be nearby or may lead to your bag/canister, ...and cooking/eating locations. Do not establish any "restroom" locations that may cross those areas in the middle of the night. Make everyone in your party aware of approved locations and "why".
Again, ...until your canister/bag is truly "scent-proof" you must think of this in terms of "luring/attracting" the animals. And where you want that place to be. If canisters and bags "worked" at masking/preventing smells, ..we would just keep them in camp with us, ...and only concern ourselves with where we cook and eat.
And lastly, ...canisters "could" be made scent-proof. Make no mistake about it. But here's the rub. What if the food the animal is after is you? You might be glad you have that "decoy" drawing them away from camp to give them something to toil away at all night, ...a puzzle to solve, ...while you sleep peacefully.
That was a lot of quotations.
Thanks for the extra info! Much appreciated
In the Adirondacks they are extremely specific about which containers are allowed. The Backpacker's Cache - Bear Proof Container is one of just a few. The Bear Vault is not allowed.
Thank you Yellow-Yellow 😉
Meanwhile, 100 miles north in Canada, they’re all using the PCT hang or tying Kevlar bags to trees. 🤷♂️
if a bear wants your food it can get it. the object is to make it difficult. twice i have been awoke by a black bear in a tree trying for my food. both times i was able to run them off. i will never keep food in my tent or not hang. i prefer PTC method.
I never worry about bears stealing my backpacking food supplies.
But then, I live in Scotland.......
The haggis however! Now they can climb, little known fact..... Finding a truly haggis proof container is a challenge.
Prevent, but deter as well with a portable electric bear fence around your campsite. 2.4 lbs of kit (the best fence) that brings huge peace of mind.
I didn't know that was a thing, I'll check it out. Thanks :)
That's the most complicated bear hang I've ever seen lol.
Yes it is, but if you have to hang your food and are in an area where tree branches aren’t long enough to get your food far enough away from the tree trunk, this is your only feasible option.
The prerequisite for a PCT hang is a tall tree with a strong, long branch sufficiently high. Such trees and branches are non-existant in some places. The hang shown (in insufficient detail) here only requires two trees sufficiently tall (say 5-6 meters) and sufficiently far apart (6 meters or so). The branches can be fairly short and weak and the sting can pass close to the trunk. Also, a variation of this hang can be improvised with various combinations of large rocks and trees. And I would like to ask what REI thinks of hanging an Ur-sac. The only time I had a problem with hanging food, it was the Stellar's Jays that ripped a hole in the bag, so minimal odor plus difficult in access seems the better plan to me.
Definitely, it will be a container and not a bag! Even if the bag is a lighter option. All the trouble to find the right place and make sure that it works well. I prefer the weight of a container and not the hassle for the rest;)
Thank you for these tips! What do you think about smelly leather boots and the backpack itself with clothes and equipment in the tent? Should I worry about it? Where or how do you store it in the night? I would really like to avoid bear visits at night!
Very good. Thank you very much
Could you/ would it be effective to submerge the drybag or plastic container by placing a heavy rock on it in a river/lake?
LokSak is expensive trash!!
My sister gave me a tiny LokSak bag to replace a bulky container I used for my first-aid kit. At first I thought it was awesome, until the zipper closure delaminated from the bag rendering it useless.
I was at REI just the other day and was about to buy some large bags for food storage and looked at the packaging expecting to see a lifetime warranty label. I didn't see one, so I decided to hold off on the purchase until I reviewed the warranty policy.
After my first-aid kit bag failed I learned first-hand that LokSak doesn't stand behind their products.
I would never buy anything from LokSak after learning that they don't warranty a product after 30 days. My bag was almost brand new and barely used. There was no reason for it to fail and LokSak told me it was past it's warranty period.
REI shouldn't carry such overpriced trash. It takes away from the quality people expect when they buy products from REI.
Thanks for the warning. Don’t worry about the warranty you can return just about anything to REI.
Well said! We just had a bear in our camp last week. I posted the video.
So did I...
Nice 👍
The hanging method she uses is tricky and vulnerable. I would only use that when there are no single trees large enough. You need a stout live branch extending at least 10' from the trunk at least 25' up. You'll need a small stick or metal toggle, a small bag with a rock or other weight in it, a carabiner, and 50 feet or more of slick, or waxed, strong narrow line - amsteel works really well. Now tie the small sack with a rock to one end of your line and toss it over a branch so the line hangs at least 6' away from the trunk. Further is even better. I disagree with her on this. 5' is not far enough. A large black bear can reach this far from the trunk. I aim for at least 8', but usually you can find a branch with plenty of room to get even further out. With practice you can make the line toss on the first or second try most of the time - arborists make much higher tosses with accuracy to get line over a dead branch. Have the stick or metal toggle handy, either in your hand or in your pocket. Take the small rock sack off your line and use the carabiner to attach your food sack in its place. Put a bowline in the end of the line to do this. If you don't have a carabiner, just tying a bowline to a loop on your food sack will suffice. Now, run the free end of the line THROUGH the carabiner (or the loop of the bowline) and pull on it to hoist the bag up as far as you can (all the way to the branch - trust me on this). Tie the stick or metal toggle into the line at head-height using a clove or marlinspike hitch. This takes a little practice, because the line is under tension from the weight of the food sack. I prefer using the marlinspike hitch because it's easier to tie and more secure. Once the toggle is secure, pay out your line. As the bag comes back down, the toggle will catch in the carabiner, leaving your bag hung securely halfway between your head and the branch. On a branch 25' feet up, if you are 5' tall, your bag will be 15' off the ground and 10' below the branch. If an animal pulls on the line, the bag goes up, not down. If they chew through the line they can reach, nothing happens (unlike the two-tree-method in this video). In the morning, pull on the line until you can reach the toggle and pull it out (it will come out easily and your hitch will come loose). Now you can pay out the line until your bag is all the way down to the ground. Many people call this the PCT method. Joe Brewer did a good video demo a few years ago - I'll paste a link into the first reply to this comment. Practice it in a park at home until you feel comfortable before trying it on the trail.
That hang is overly complicated, the PCT hang is much easier and effective.
If you can find a suitable branch... If not then this is a valid option
This is my show Gosh Darn
Hi there. Does this storage apply if I’m car camping? What if I have a cooler? If I was backpacking how would I store perishables?
I’m trying to figure that out too.
If you are in a place with bears, absolutely. There have been instances of them breaking into cars and RVs. Better to be safe.
would hanging a ammonia scented cloth with the food help or would the bears just associate ammonia with food?
how come you didn't spray the bag with ammonia so it throws off the scent if it stinks which ammonia does the animals don't want anything just a small spritz bottle like a 4 oz depending on how long you are going to play in the woods
No because animals smell that WITH everything else, not INSTEAD OF.
just wrap a rag around the jar and no problem the ammonia stinks that bad
An ammonia and hot chilie sauce mixture (small spray bottle) is what I use...it also can be used instead of pepper spray for aggressive dogs as well as black bears.
✌ 👣 👑 👑
ya if you smell bad not like some sort of food the animal goes away your scent is what attracts them like your dog food? they are just hungry but being they're predators and hungry your ass in on the menu
HoW COmE yoU DiDnT..........
aside from the bear canister, ..... counterbalance is the best method !
Back Packing Food Storage For Personal Safety.
Unless only tiny animals investigate your canister, turning it upside down is useless. The first thing any animal large enough is going to do is turn that thing around with paws or muzzle. It's going to be flipped and rolled around. Hang the canister. The only reason to carry a canister is to meet regs in your area. I strongly disagree with her statement that there are better options than hanging your food. The only better option is a locker, but you won't find those in the back country. If hung properly, a hang is the only truly effective method. Two simple knots and some practice and you can hang anything, including a canister. I've never had a hang disturbed, but I've had canisters be gone in the morning or turn up hundreds of yards away from where I left them (that's why I started hanging canisters). The best option is to store everything in odor resistant ziplocks (mylar or special plastics) inside either an Ursack or canister, then hang it. You'll need to tie a harness around a canister, but that's easy to do with a little practice.
wimmisky The presenter is fine. And it’s REI’s official position that canisters are better than hanging, especially in bear country with smart bears: www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/bear-resistant-canisters.html
Gotta sell the canisters & make some $$ ;-)
You might be skeptical but they do work, Brett. You can check them out here: bit.ly/2OC3hDY
Well, that made for an interesting "find the canister" game, dinnit? :D
"The only better option is a locker, but you won't find those in the back country." Beg to differ. Kings Canyon and Sequoia National Parks and Yosemite have bear lockers in many of the camping areas.
Wow the turn a 0 to 100 turn about the killed part lol
Bears are attracted to the smell of sunscreen ?
Bears have learned to associate certain smells with backpackers, and to associate backpackers with food. If a bear smells sunscreen, it knows backpackers are nearby, which means food is nearby, so they wander towards it.
What! Bears can't get sunburn? Don't you know that's often why they're grouchy. Give those fuzzballs some factor 50
The PCT style bear bag hang is much more effective.
✌ 👣 👑 👑
🥰
🙌🙂
At time stamp 11:39 she says you don't want to store it near a rock because an animal can pick up the rock and smash it. If an animal picks up that rock just give him the damn food! Hahahaha
She meant the animal can pick up the canister, not the rock. Time stamp is 1:39
0:03 0:03 0:03 0:03 0:03 0:03 0:04 0:04 0:04 0:04
Are you really going to go for a swim though? I think not
I have a Bear Keg. I can open it, a bear can only play soccer with it. Bears can open bear vaults quicker than I can!
Animals and foxes?
I’m just not going to ear anything other than grass and leaves. Should be safe then.
I just moved to bear country
You would sure make a great hiking partner!
That's why I don't go wild camping so that I can bring my metal luggage to a camp ground with fox boxes
Can we talk about how un-level that tent is...lol
Maybe she likes sleeping at an angle
Am i the only one that has to worry about poison ivy 😢
Miranda you're so gorgeous.
Yup, that's how ya do it in a classroom with no wild animals.
🦶🏻
Boy that’s too complicated. Can’t you just put your food bag into the tent?
Where is here right eyebrow ? Gone camping