Don't worry, I already stopped trusting them around the time the CEO called me a "f***ing idiot" for not wanting to build my game around monetization schemes. It was a clear signal of direction, and this cements it. Even if I could afford the fee, I cannot afford to trust someone who will retroactively alter agreements to keep tacking on more and more charges whenever they feel like it. FFS, this is somewhere between The Sopranos and how Darth Vader "altered the agreement" with Lando Calrissian. Absolutely no way I'll ever do business with Unity in my lifetime.
Exactly. I had to let my Plus sub lapse shortly before that whole situation. But afterward I never bothered to renew. I personally will never return to this tool or this Company. It's too late to change my mind. I can't speak for others and if the company does the right thing they might still be able to secure a future for themselves but their time is dwindling more rapidly than they think. We absolutely cannot allow this to stand. There cannot be any compromises. Unity isn't the only tool at stake here.
This whole retroactive change of payment model is likely not legal anyway. I get that people will write "we can change the TOS at any time without your consent", but that's ALREADY tenuous. And once THIS much money is on the table, c'mon. That's insane.
How could you ever afford the fee? It's a lifetime perpetual payments that you'd owe to Unity decades after you stopped making any profits, just because some 40 years afterwards installed your game.
As soon as I tried Godot for the first time a year ago I uninstalled unity and never came back to it. And now unity is not just shooting themselves in the foot, they're blowing their legs off. They deserve to be ditched.
Myself stick w/ Unity for a 2 years, and that whole time I have been making my very first game. It's time to switch to Godot! I can't trust Unity anymore as 99.9999% of every other devs out there. So, it's time for new names in gamedev! Hello UE, Godot, Flax, Construct, RPG Maker and others!
I will say that the worst thing that I saw from this was less the fees against developers and more that Unity clarified by saying that they can tell the difference between a fresh install and a reinstall of the Unity Runtime. Exactly what data are they receiving per install? Do they now have my full machine specs? As a consumer, why do I have to agree to Unity's terms to play a game from my favorite developer in exchange for beaming my data to the mothership? Hopefully, the classes you teach will switch to Godot and Unreal as the main engines!
@@Doronoss No. Even if they could it won't matter. Script: Run X amount of windows VM scripts to install the game, run it, and then nuke the partition which configures different hardware specs each time Set script to run indefinitely, forever, and restart only upon completion of instances. This could be designed with a smart system that mimics legitimate installations over a longer period of time and from different places. ----- Developer is bankrupted, if they meet the thresholds to be monetized by unity the game is over for them. See first step until desired effect is reached. Unity uses aggregate data and their trust me bro "fraud detection" nonsense they say will be fair. Fair to who? This sounds like the modern medical and other related insurance scams that we've all allowed. Surely, the company WONT tip the scales in their favor. Surely, they will properly bill the developers for only legitimate installations. It is in Unity's best interest to bill companies for whatever they want. It would only take ONE bad actors to rig up a system or a hacker with a botnet to end a small but successful indie. Surely corporations won't themselves do it through nebulous discreet payment processors who are located within the very despotic regimes that hack governments and companies writ large. Are you sleeping, you need to be to dream that this WOULDN'T be weaponized. We have industry trends over the years such as "western developers angry at Elden Ring" or " Baldurs Gate 3 is an impossible standard to achieve" all coming from greedy MTX platform companies who are super mad that some people still actually make GREAT GAMES instead of funneling people onto their scam platforms that are financially designed to goad as much money as possible from consumers. I've done emulation for a lot of various platforms over the last couple of decades. Just with phone gaming alone the myriad of macro and hotkey setups you can make which are EASILY doable by the average person. It is a MASSIVE liability, per install has virtually NEVER been used before and there are a myriad of other reasons why the standard is "sale" as opposed to install. If unity has the technology which would allow proper accounting of legitimate installations to give a perfect 100% accurate bill to developers, they're in breach of their own contract with virtually every online gaming store BESIDES mobile, where advertising and telemetry data is freely exchanged like a dystopian nightmare. Steam, Epic, and GOG all have explicit bans against SPYWARE. Sure, those stores will know the SALES of each game . . . but do they collect the installation information too? If they do what happens with pirate copies or cracked versions? It is such a horrible and evil can of worms, it simply should not exist.
@@Doronoss Not good enough. NIC's can fail. Many systems have more than 1 NIC. MAC can also be spoofed and once the "mechanism" is know it can be gamed. Then there are upgrades as well and of course... multiple devices. I have 10 different systems in my house between laptops, desktops, and mini's. It's not tenable, fair, ethical, or moral for unity to do this.
If they think enforcement for older games that are no longer maintaned is possible, it means active fingerprinting code might have been present for a long time in their runtime
I can't wait to hear about and follow the lawsuits that spring up regarding changes to agreements for games that the development of which has long since been discontinued on. Also even if Unity doesn't backpedal all the way, something tells me the EU may end up striking down this monetization strategy within the EU even if simply due to the privacy implications.
Nothing substantial is going to happen until Independents (developers/creators/makers/anyone) come together and formally organize. This normalized gaslighting is not going to stop. Whether it be Reddit-style, Unity, Apple, Adobe, you name the industry kingpin, until a formidable challenger steps up to these giants, they will continue to push every single boundary. Sometimes it will be in major steps like this, while other times, it will be feature-creep to avoid the outcries like with Unity. It is not enough to just walk away from Unity, because tomorrow, it will be a different company, that sees independents as groups that can be pushed around. The masses have to say ENOUGH, in Unity. Unison against Unity is the only way this sends the message in a way that reverberates.
“Hey everyone! This infrastructure is solipsistic, profit driven, and only benefits the fat cats! I’ve got an idea! Let’s build our own infrastructure to combat that infrastructure and SURELY our infrastructure WONT suffer the SAME fate as theirs! Why don’t we all pay money into a system that will never defend our rights in a court of law and continue to use us while telling us it’d be far worse without them!”
@@viberninIt is NOT enough, because even with the reach of RUclips, it does not make enough of a monetary impact that change happens. I can give you a 2 page list of companies that have sat on backlashes like this and maintained their stance, and lived to tell the tale.
@@viberninFurthermore, it only treats one problem, rather than setting a new precedent that independents are a force looking after each other, not all fending for themselves.
The only way I can see this happening is if everyone switches to open alternatives. Say no to vendor lock-in and mono-/oligopolies, say no to corporations being able to control any part of this. We can't boycott game engines altogether (indie games wouldn't exist if we did and that'd be a loss) but we're in the lucky position where Godot exists, is open source, and in some regards BETTER than Unity! And we open source fanatics keep saying this, that it's almost IDEOLOGICALLY necessary to use free software whenever possible, instead of putting your trust in these gigacorps... now game devs probably understand why we say that.
I'm currently working on a Unity game called Cabin Losing Pressure. I plan to complete this project just so I can say "I completed a game". If Unity has not reversed their decision by then I'm going to start learning Godot for my JRPG project.
Absolutely right. There is only one way. How trust can be restored slowly, perhaps in the future, and that is 1. the immediate resignation of all responsible executives, especially John Riccitiello, and 2. the complete reversal of this perverse business model.
Whenever I see an indie studio making one of those PNG statements on Twitter, I have a similar reaction to hearing someone's in an abusive relationship. I just want them to get somewhere safe, but Unity is effectively holding their current projects hostage, with an unknown ransom amount.
Another sketchy fundamental at play here: this is retroactive and voids previous agreements. even if Epic decides tomorrow that unreal now costs $100 every time you open the editor, their previous licenses for existing engine versions still stand and are not modified.
This is what really cements this as unforgivable. Even if they were to fully walk back everything they said, they have demostarted that they are prepared to alter the deal after the fact, so they can never again be trusted.
Even if Epic ''can'' do it on Unreal. They never did it. So i have trust in them until proven guilty. Everything have a % of risk. That's why we have to gradually become independent while taking reasonable risks. The goal is move from one reasonable path to another, to construct a stable life for our kids. Unity proven that they are enemies of my kids, i don't want my kids be effected by these freaks and their greedy business mentality. If i can sacrifice to stop feeding an abusive company than i will do it. If i can't, it just means that i'm slowly leaving instead of instantly. That's what i did with my 2 previous abusive Engineering jobs. I milked them legally like they milked me illegaly until i was able to move on while slabbing them as much as i can while im out.
You hit the nail right on the head. When other companies see one company getting away with grinding their customers, they follow jubilantly. I'm not a developer and I play only two games casually but I'm following this unfolding Unity disaster as it will eventually affect me in some knock-on way. What needs to happen is for some company (like Unity in this case) to suffer a catastrophic bankruptcy as a direct result of greed. It will make the rest weary of testing the greed waters for at least a decade.
Unity can't be trusted. They said they could not possibly track reinstalls and say they can now. They say that if your game is pirated, you can open a case with them. Otherwise, they'll bill you. You're all gifted and awesome devs. Imagine having this type or stress when you're putting out a game. The existing Unity devs need to get lawyers for their existing work and then migrate on their next project.
yeaaaa they'll TOTALLY detect if a downloaded copy is pirated. Because Piracy is famously a solved problem, everyone knows this. Also I heard they're gonna _try to_ detect reinstalls using the machine's mac address, which?? NO??? I'm not gonna let some random corporation get that kind of sensitive information about my machine, what the fuck! This is actually a crime they'd be committing against anyone who DOWNLOADS Unity games from now on, making the whole thing double unviable. Also means that nobody under 13 can play Unity games anymore. Just think about that for a second. Just to make my concerns even clearer: with this proposed model, Unity must have an internal database of all computers that have unity games installed, associated with what games they have installed. This is EXTREMELY sensitive data. They can 100% create an identity profile from information like which games a user likes to play, how often they've installed it, stuff like that. And that kind of data collection is FULLY illegal for children under 13, and MUST be opt-in for adults at least in the EU. There also must be an opt-out option which Unity is forced to respect, making the whole system useless in the case of those people anyway: they could just opt out and rapid-reinstall away.
"You will own nothing and be happy" comes to mind whenever I hear about another company changing their business model to a rental scheme. This is what they mean by wanting a circular economy. Everything circles back to their pockets, you own nothing and rent everything.
All software CEOs are watching 👀 and if they get away with it they adopt... then 10 more years down the line it's so normalized that you get cars where you have to pay 5 cent each time you open the car door 💀
BMW has already ended their trials of the heating subscription service for their cars due to low subscription rates and bad customer feedback. We cannot relent, we must stamp out wonton greed.
I was a long time Unity developer, both professional and hobby. Instead of more Unity content, I would love to see more recent Godot 4 content from the community!
Unity spent years trying to convince developers that monetizing games with ads and micro-transactions was the way to go, and now they just say: "sorry idiots, but that's your fault for believing the lies we told you".
The writing has been on the wall with Unity for a long time now. I can't imagine anyone still bailing water on that sinking ship will change their minds, but I sure hope they do. Shed your leechy overlords!
I just dove into Unity a few months ago, had no idea things were cooking up something this bad. I did an entire pre-prod battery of proofs, tests, layouts, and now it's all gotta go - what a seismic failure on the part of Unity. I am beyond thrilled that it appears that Godot is going to have a fairly straightforward transition and looks to be quite powerful nowadays, which makes me out-of-this-world happy that it's FOSS. I'm continuously blown away by my amazing fellow humans!
I was just trying to jump back into game dev when all of this started happening. I wanted 2d and 3d access... I was gonna finally learn to use unity until I saw all of their nonsense, your sentiment in this video is perfect! smash it down until all of it is gone, don't open the door.
Honestly, I left the Untiy engine a long time ago due to it becoming a bloated mess that would break my project any time they updated the engine. Most indies tend to be making 2d games from what I am seeing regarding the backlash. IMO Godot seems to be much better at the 2d stuff than Unity is, no idea why some people are still using it for 2d stuff in general
@@SheynificationSure, but unlike GameMaker, Godot is completely free and open-source with no strings attached! With the release of Godot 4, 3D capabilities are also improving significantly. You can find many videos online demonstrating that.
Some games are made in 3d "hollow knight" but locked to 2D perspective because you can do a lot of interesting graphical and system based development that is easier to troubleshoot. I was watching a video about how broken the map is for the entire world of hollow knight and it touched on this concept. It actually makes sense when you think about it. It is much easier to design lived in or thematically beautiful worlds within a 3d space using the rich parallax features allowed in a 3d game but for the background/POV of a 2d platformer.
My RPG is a HUGE database with a thin UI on top. Migrating to Godot is humming along. Just copy over the C#, switch from Vector3Int to Vector3I... various other tweeks. And now I'm a Godot dev. Good-bye Unity! I'll never trust any of your CEOs ever again.
I know these studios have a lot when they have big projects stuck in Unity, but once those games are out, they cannot stay with Unity, for their sake. They will keep trying and keep reaching into their wallets. Even if they go 100% backpedal, abusive partners rarely, if ever change. You've seen what they're like, and it's a matter of time before it happens again. The only thing Unity has is a big user base. If everyone moves away, Unity has less of a stranglehold on the industry
This is absolutely my same consensus on this. It's not about the money strictly its about the message they're sending, this is a middle finger to everyone that's ever worked on or played a unity game
This is my sentiment exactly. If every Unity developer would go as far as Cult of the Lamb's developer and threaten to just straight up delete their game, maybe Unity would backpedal all the way. But unfortunately I don't think that will be the case, and, maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I think if they stick with their new plan, this will end up being a win for Unity, because they will end up making a lot of money off the games whose developers didn't bother to do anything. As for me, I'm just glad I finally have a reason to ditch Unity for good and learn something better.
Unfortunately I have been quite deep into development for my project so I'll just have to push on to actually finish something. Will switch to Godot for my future projects though and I'm sure you'll help with the transition. I'm not even sure if I'll go back to Unity if they retract the absurd conditions. They definitely left a sour taste on majority of game devs.
Unity has a great community, there is a lot to learn from it. You can use unity courses to learn each aspect of game development. Once you are comfortable with that, then use engine like godot or o3de to develop your game.
After seeing the officials of unity being greedy. Now if all they want to revert back to old terms, we shouldn't let them. If at all they apologize. We users should impose a alt revenue model where you start paying for subscription of pro only after 1 million revenue has been generated and no runtime bs. Greediness can only be defeated by GREED.
Well said, it's too late for it anyway. No matter what they off, I'm off to Unigine. Funny thing is, people were already tired of Unity, this is the last push everyone was waiting for, the engine has become a mess a while ago, editor performance plumetting, half baked solutions that get abandoned out of nowhere (e.g Kinematica), etc.
i dont think the argument of "subscription only works because other companies tried it and it works" is very valid. The reason subscription based purchases work is because its cheap and its a good deal. technically speaking, companies lose money off it, the real reason it works, is because ppl forget about it and most ppl just have a subscription they dont actually use. gym memberships are the best example of this. Not to say the rest of what you might be valid or not, but the logic isnt very good in that sense. Also my opinion, since i use godot anyways and not unity, even if i were a unity developer, i would quit unity, because we've always known that unity was just a big company that cared more about making money than their developers, theyve proven this over and over again. The smart thing to do here, is to quit unity.
In the software context, the subscription model correlated with a massive price increase. It used to be that you bought Photoshop for around $700. But would use it for 3-5 years before buying the latest version at the time. Now, you pay $250 / year for Photoshop and get updates continuously. The only folks saving money on the subscription model are those who bought every upgrade in the past. Unlike the gym model, Adobe would love for you to use Photoshop every day. They aren't relying on you forgetting about it. Actually, they are relying on you becoming so dependent on it, you'll never spend $70 one-time for Affirm Photo.
not even a 100% walk back would be sufficient, IMO. As long as their TOS includes a clause that allows them to change it at any time regardless of version they can undo their walk back at any time, I would not trust putting years of work and effort into a game project in their engine when they can at any time decide to take steps in this direction again.
I personally have plan to move my project to other engine's like Godot for example For sure i will not be easy proses but i thing, For now i just trying those engine's And Wean i learn the besics i will try to recreate my project's in whatever egine I end up using That means at least for a little while i use unity and the other engine side by side in the order to able to recreate my project's Trast my ther not other way around this
I think the plan was to adopt a revenue share from the begining and this first pricing plan was suppose to soften the blow when the revenue share pricing plan is finally anounced. There is no way in hell someone would think of something as stupid as this. I know the CEO is the EA guy but still.
It would be great if all the Unity devs that are upset with this would move to Godot and help with making it as great if not better than Unity, at the very least there would never ever be a person that just comes and says "Let's start making these devs pay for every person that installs their game"
Honestly, I'd prefer to let Unity collapse and die a slow, painful death. I'm completely done with them, and yes I have invested hundreds of hours into learning the engine and building a project. The backlash for this is going to be enormous.
I am tempted to remove Unity integration from the audio framework that I maintain. Not that I've ever used it, but I don't even want to tangentially support these kind of practices ..
Mastering a game engine requires a huge investment of time that people make under the assumption that the deal Unity advertises is the deal that users will get going forward. To abruptly change the arrangement like they did is a slap in the face, and means that Unity as a company simply cannot be trusted going forward. Their leadership is chasing users away, and Unity needs to decide if it actually wants to greatly shrink their user base. Maybe that's their goal???
The reason why the price increased is because since 2020 blackrock acquired some share in 2023 up to 6% which they could have proposed a model to increase revenue. Adding the fee to the devs.
An amazing unity editor interface with exceptional unity scripting API, with C# being a feature packed language, that will fulfill so many dreams of aspiring game developers, all of these jaw-dropping amazing things, will be ruined by a stupid decision by seriously, an ex-EA CEO!!!! A questionable, goddamn RUNTIME FEE!!!!!
I PROPOSE A REVALUATION!!! WE MUST FIGHT BACK! EVERYONE START SPAMMING UNITY REDIT AND DISCORD AND ANY OF THERE RUclips VIDEOS! THIS MEANS WAR!!!!!!!!!
It raise red flag when the brought the adverting company that handle malware and now this. It an shady move plus game dev have not right to vote so this be abuse of their power to add fee install program into more shady program install to the pc and hidden spyware software.
They do support c# but I suggest using gdscript since it's much more integrated than any other language, it's similar to c# so it might not be much difficult to get around ...
Steam, xbox, sony, nintendo, apple and android could stop this simply by stating they will not pay fees as the distributor and may consider banning unity games from their platforms, at which point Riccitello would be sacked because no access to platforms no revenue share at all. But instead you suggest developers who have no real power in this situation immaterial what you might think, are the ones who should screw their lives up for some principal when you have no skin in the game. Why don't you get a petition going and contact all the platforms and tell them to apply pressure to Unity?
Unity I loved you 😪 But since you sold out aka went public, and got that CEO, you've been more evil by the day😢 this is crossing the line. I am done with Unity forever, trust is broken
Don't worry, I already stopped trusting them around the time the CEO called me a "f***ing idiot" for not wanting to build my game around monetization schemes. It was a clear signal of direction, and this cements it.
Even if I could afford the fee, I cannot afford to trust someone who will retroactively alter agreements to keep tacking on more and more charges whenever they feel like it.
FFS, this is somewhere between The Sopranos and how Darth Vader "altered the agreement" with Lando Calrissian. Absolutely no way I'll ever do business with Unity in my lifetime.
Exactly. I had to let my Plus sub lapse shortly before that whole situation. But afterward I never bothered to renew. I personally will never return to this tool or this Company. It's too late to change my mind. I can't speak for others and if the company does the right thing they might still be able to secure a future for themselves but their time is dwindling more rapidly than they think. We absolutely cannot allow this to stand. There cannot be any compromises. Unity isn't the only tool at stake here.
Agreed 100% - no way for Unity to regain our trust like... Ever
This whole retroactive change of payment model is likely not legal anyway. I get that people will write "we can change the TOS at any time without your consent", but that's ALREADY tenuous. And once THIS much money is on the table, c'mon. That's insane.
How could you ever afford the fee?
It's a lifetime perpetual payments that you'd owe to Unity decades after you stopped making any profits, just because some 40 years afterwards installed your game.
“… do you guys not have Phones??”
As soon as I tried Godot for the first time a year ago I uninstalled unity and never came back to it. And now unity is not just shooting themselves in the foot, they're blowing their legs off. They deserve to be ditched.
I think godot still needs more improvement for the 3d part.
But it can easily replace Unity for 2d games or small 3d games.
@@berkekadircelik6282 for 3d, they have added new features and solved a lot of existing bugs in the upcoming 4.2. waiting to try it
As someone who has been working in Unity for more than a decade happy to find another source for learning Godot and devs outside of Unity speaking out
Tell me one game that you made 🤔
Myself stick w/ Unity for a 2 years, and that whole time I have been making my very first game. It's time to switch to Godot!
I can't trust Unity anymore as 99.9999% of every other devs out there. So, it's time for new names in gamedev! Hello UE, Godot, Flax, Construct, RPG Maker and others!
I'm worried about Silksong now.
However I'd rather wait 10 more years than have them give money to Unity.
i forgot about that omg
I will say that the worst thing that I saw from this was less the fees against developers and more that Unity clarified by saying that they can tell the difference between a fresh install and a reinstall of the Unity Runtime. Exactly what data are they receiving per install? Do they now have my full machine specs? As a consumer, why do I have to agree to Unity's terms to play a game from my favorite developer in exchange for beaming my data to the mothership? Hopefully, the classes you teach will switch to Godot and Unreal as the main engines!
@@Doronoss No. Even if they could it won't matter.
Script:
Run X amount of windows VM scripts to install the game, run it, and then nuke the partition which configures different hardware specs each time
Set script to run indefinitely, forever, and restart only upon completion of instances. This could be designed with a smart system that mimics legitimate installations over a longer period of time and from different places.
-----
Developer is bankrupted, if they meet the thresholds to be monetized by unity the game is over for them.
See first step until desired effect is reached.
Unity uses aggregate data and their trust me bro "fraud detection" nonsense they say will be fair. Fair to who? This sounds like the modern medical and other related insurance scams that we've all allowed. Surely, the company WONT tip the scales in their favor. Surely, they will properly bill the developers for only legitimate installations. It is in Unity's best interest to bill companies for whatever they want. It would only take ONE bad actors to rig up a system or a hacker with a botnet to end a small but successful indie. Surely corporations won't themselves do it through nebulous discreet payment processors who are located within the very despotic regimes that hack governments and companies writ large. Are you sleeping, you need to be to dream that this WOULDN'T be weaponized. We have industry trends over the years such as "western developers angry at Elden Ring" or " Baldurs Gate 3 is an impossible standard to achieve" all coming from greedy MTX platform companies who are super mad that some people still actually make GREAT GAMES instead of funneling people onto their scam platforms that are financially designed to goad as much money as possible from consumers.
I've done emulation for a lot of various platforms over the last couple of decades. Just with phone gaming alone the myriad of macro and hotkey setups you can make which are EASILY doable by the average person. It is a MASSIVE liability, per install has virtually NEVER been used before and there are a myriad of other reasons why the standard is "sale" as opposed to install.
If unity has the technology which would allow proper accounting of legitimate installations to give a perfect 100% accurate bill to developers, they're in breach of their own contract with virtually every online gaming store BESIDES mobile, where advertising and telemetry data is freely exchanged like a dystopian nightmare. Steam, Epic, and GOG all have explicit bans against SPYWARE. Sure, those stores will know the SALES of each game . . . but do they collect the installation information too? If they do what happens with pirate copies or cracked versions? It is such a horrible and evil can of worms, it simply should not exist.
@@Doronoss Not good enough. NIC's can fail. Many systems have more than 1 NIC. MAC can also be spoofed and once the "mechanism" is know it can be gamed. Then there are upgrades as well and of course... multiple devices. I have 10 different systems in my house between laptops, desktops, and mini's.
It's not tenable, fair, ethical, or moral for unity to do this.
@@Doronossand that's the "naive" implementation. For bonus points, identify the dozens of problems with that.
If they think enforcement for older games that are no longer maintaned is possible, it means active fingerprinting code might have been present for a long time in their runtime
But then that raises the issue that they would be in violation of EU privacy laws.
It's an honour to learn from such an honourable man!
I'm with you on all fronts, brother. No matter the risk.
This is why I make video games.
I can't wait to hear about and follow the lawsuits that spring up regarding changes to agreements for games that the development of which has long since been discontinued on. Also even if Unity doesn't backpedal all the way, something tells me the EU may end up striking down this monetization strategy within the EU even if simply due to the privacy implications.
Nothing substantial is going to happen until Independents (developers/creators/makers/anyone) come together and formally organize. This normalized gaslighting is not going to stop. Whether it be Reddit-style, Unity, Apple, Adobe, you name the industry kingpin, until a formidable challenger steps up to these giants, they will continue to push every single boundary. Sometimes it will be in major steps like this, while other times, it will be feature-creep to avoid the outcries like with Unity.
It is not enough to just walk away from Unity, because tomorrow, it will be a different company, that sees independents as groups that can be pushed around. The masses have to say ENOUGH, in Unity. Unison against Unity is the only way this sends the message in a way that reverberates.
“Hey everyone! This infrastructure is solipsistic, profit driven, and only benefits the fat cats! I’ve got an idea! Let’s build our own infrastructure to combat that infrastructure and SURELY our infrastructure WONT suffer the SAME fate as theirs! Why don’t we all pay money into a system that will never defend our rights in a court of law and continue to use us while telling us it’d be far worse without them!”
@@viberninIt is NOT enough, because even with the reach of RUclips, it does not make enough of a monetary impact that change happens. I can give you a 2 page list of companies that have sat on backlashes like this and maintained their stance, and lived to tell the tale.
@@viberninFurthermore, it only treats one problem, rather than setting a new precedent that independents are a force looking after each other, not all fending for themselves.
The only way I can see this happening is if everyone switches to open alternatives. Say no to vendor lock-in and mono-/oligopolies, say no to corporations being able to control any part of this. We can't boycott game engines altogether (indie games wouldn't exist if we did and that'd be a loss) but we're in the lucky position where Godot exists, is open source, and in some regards BETTER than Unity! And we open source fanatics keep saying this, that it's almost IDEOLOGICALLY necessary to use free software whenever possible, instead of putting your trust in these gigacorps... now game devs probably understand why we say that.
I'm currently working on a Unity game called Cabin Losing Pressure. I plan to complete this project just so I can say "I completed a game". If Unity has not reversed their decision by then I'm going to start learning Godot for my JRPG project.
Absolutely right. There is only one way. How trust can be restored slowly, perhaps in the future, and that is 1. the immediate resignation of all responsible executives, especially John Riccitiello, and 2. the complete reversal of this perverse business model.
Whenever I see an indie studio making one of those PNG statements on Twitter, I have a similar reaction to hearing someone's in an abusive relationship. I just want them to get somewhere safe, but Unity is effectively holding their current projects hostage, with an unknown ransom amount.
Another sketchy fundamental at play here: this is retroactive and voids previous agreements. even if Epic decides tomorrow that unreal now costs $100 every time you open the editor, their previous licenses for existing engine versions still stand and are not modified.
This is what really cements this as unforgivable. Even if they were to fully walk back everything they said, they have demostarted that they are prepared to alter the deal after the fact, so they can never again be trusted.
Even if Epic ''can'' do it on Unreal. They never did it. So i have trust in them until proven guilty. Everything have a % of risk. That's why we have to gradually become independent while taking reasonable risks. The goal is move from one reasonable path to another, to construct a stable life for our kids. Unity proven that they are enemies of my kids, i don't want my kids be effected by these freaks and their greedy business mentality. If i can sacrifice to stop feeding an abusive company than i will do it. If i can't, it just means that i'm slowly leaving instead of instantly. That's what i did with my 2 previous abusive Engineering jobs. I milked them legally like they milked me illegaly until i was able to move on while slabbing them as much as i can while im out.
You hit the nail right on the head. When other companies see one company getting away with grinding their customers, they follow jubilantly. I'm not a developer and I play only two games casually but I'm following this unfolding Unity disaster as it will eventually affect me in some knock-on way. What needs to happen is for some company (like Unity in this case) to suffer a catastrophic bankruptcy as a direct result of greed. It will make the rest weary of testing the greed waters for at least a decade.
I like the way you talk, your confidence makes me feel confident
Unity can't be trusted. They said they could not possibly track reinstalls and say they can now.
They say that if your game is pirated, you can open a case with them. Otherwise, they'll bill you.
You're all gifted and awesome devs. Imagine having this type or stress when you're putting out a game.
The existing Unity devs need to get lawyers for their existing work and then migrate on their next project.
yeaaaa they'll TOTALLY detect if a downloaded copy is pirated. Because Piracy is famously a solved problem, everyone knows this.
Also I heard they're gonna _try to_ detect reinstalls using the machine's mac address, which?? NO??? I'm not gonna let some random corporation get that kind of sensitive information about my machine, what the fuck! This is actually a crime they'd be committing against anyone who DOWNLOADS Unity games from now on, making the whole thing double unviable. Also means that nobody under 13 can play Unity games anymore. Just think about that for a second.
Just to make my concerns even clearer: with this proposed model, Unity must have an internal database of all computers that have unity games installed, associated with what games they have installed. This is EXTREMELY sensitive data. They can 100% create an identity profile from information like which games a user likes to play, how often they've installed it, stuff like that. And that kind of data collection is FULLY illegal for children under 13, and MUST be opt-in for adults at least in the EU. There also must be an opt-out option which Unity is forced to respect, making the whole system useless in the case of those people anyway: they could just opt out and rapid-reinstall away.
"You will own nothing and be happy" comes to mind whenever I hear about another company changing their business model to a rental scheme. This is what they mean by wanting a circular economy. Everything circles back to their pockets, you own nothing and rent everything.
All software CEOs are watching 👀
and if they get away with it they adopt...
then 10 more years down the line it's so normalized that you get cars where you have to pay 5 cent each time you open the car door 💀
BMW has already ended their trials of the heating subscription service for their cars due to low subscription rates and bad customer feedback. We cannot relent, we must stamp out wonton greed.
@@WhatWillYouFind utterly incomprehensible that anyone subscribed at all. I mean wtf.
@@WhatWillYouFind That's actually amazing.
I was a long time Unity developer, both professional and hobby. Instead of more Unity content, I would love to see more recent Godot 4 content from the community!
I wanted to explore Unreal engine for a long time. And thanks to them now I finally have the best motivation ever.
Nice to see you again!! I loved your older tutorials :)
Unity spent years trying to convince developers that monetizing games with ads and micro-transactions was the way to go, and now they just say: "sorry idiots, but that's your fault for believing the lies we told you".
I 100% agree that people should not compromise. this plan is just ridiculous! I think Unity could learn a lesson from a boycott.
It is a slippery slope, we need to put our foot down.
Thanks for raising your voice!
The writing has been on the wall with Unity for a long time now. I can't imagine anyone still bailing water on that sinking ship will change their minds, but I sure hope they do. Shed your leechy overlords!
Should a paint supplier charge an artist for each look people give of a painting they made even after paying for the paint ?
I just dove into Unity a few months ago, had no idea things were cooking up something this bad. I did an entire pre-prod battery of proofs, tests, layouts, and now it's all gotta go - what a seismic failure on the part of Unity. I am beyond thrilled that it appears that Godot is going to have a fairly straightforward transition and looks to be quite powerful nowadays, which makes me out-of-this-world happy that it's FOSS. I'm continuously blown away by my amazing fellow humans!
Big hive five for this video. Looking forward to more amazing Godot content :)
I was just trying to jump back into game dev when all of this started happening. I wanted 2d and 3d access... I was gonna finally learn to use unity until I saw all of their nonsense, your sentiment in this video is perfect! smash it down until all of it is gone, don't open the door.
I won't be touching Unity again for as long as John Riccitiello is CEO
Honestly, I left the Untiy engine a long time ago due to it becoming a bloated mess that would break my project any time they updated the engine. Most indies tend to be making 2d games from what I am seeing regarding the backlash. IMO Godot seems to be much better at the 2d stuff than Unity is, no idea why some people are still using it for 2d stuff in general
and 3d in godot will continue to improve, now with more users maybe even faster
If you are doing pure 2d, gamemaker seems to be better choice over godot, but if you want to implement some 3d into 2d, godot seems the way.
@@SheynificationSure, but unlike GameMaker, Godot is completely free and open-source with no strings attached! With the release of Godot 4, 3D capabilities are also improving significantly. You can find many videos online demonstrating that.
Some games are made in 3d "hollow knight" but locked to 2D perspective because you can do a lot of interesting graphical and system based development that is easier to troubleshoot. I was watching a video about how broken the map is for the entire world of hollow knight and it touched on this concept. It actually makes sense when you think about it. It is much easier to design lived in or thematically beautiful worlds within a 3d space using the rich parallax features allowed in a 3d game but for the background/POV of a 2d platformer.
If 3D in Godot continues to grow, that would me amaaaazing.
Godot, Blender, Gimp, Krita etc.
14 year unity game dev is now Day 2 Monogame developer. Porting all my games effective immediately. MIT licenses only going forward.
My RPG is a HUGE database with a thin UI on top. Migrating to Godot is humming along. Just copy over the C#, switch from Vector3Int to Vector3I... various other tweeks. And now I'm a Godot dev. Good-bye Unity! I'll never trust any of your CEOs ever again.
I love how the industry for whatever reason forgot that Riccitello was at the helm of EA when EA went to their absolute most foul
I'm still trying to convince my partners to switch our bare new development game to Unreal.
To press on the company to make things right
I know these studios have a lot when they have big projects stuck in Unity, but once those games are out, they cannot stay with Unity, for their sake. They will keep trying and keep reaching into their wallets. Even if they go 100% backpedal, abusive partners rarely, if ever change. You've seen what they're like, and it's a matter of time before it happens again. The only thing Unity has is a big user base. If everyone moves away, Unity has less of a stranglehold on the industry
This is absolutely my same consensus on this. It's not about the money strictly its about the message they're sending, this is a middle finger to everyone that's ever worked on or played a unity game
see this is why I went to godot, even though Unity was popular, I never bothered learning it, cause I dont like dealing with licensing
I came for Godot content. I will stay for Godot content.
This is my sentiment exactly. If every Unity developer would go as far as Cult of the Lamb's developer and threaten to just straight up delete their game, maybe Unity would backpedal all the way. But unfortunately I don't think that will be the case, and, maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I think if they stick with their new plan, this will end up being a win for Unity, because they will end up making a lot of money off the games whose developers didn't bother to do anything. As for me, I'm just glad I finally have a reason to ditch Unity for good and learn something better.
This is exactly why FOSS is the future. Made for the end-users, by the end-users.
Unfortunately I have been quite deep into development for my project so I'll just have to push on to actually finish something.
Will switch to Godot for my future projects though and I'm sure you'll help with the transition. I'm not even sure if I'll go back to Unity if they retract the absurd conditions. They definitely left a sour taste on majority of game devs.
Live free or die.
not going back 12 years in and happy to move on
Unity has a great community, there is a lot to learn from it. You can use unity courses to learn each aspect of game development. Once you are comfortable with that, then use engine like godot or o3de to develop your game.
I will not be renewing my annual unity license in October as long as possible (I need it to update games in production)
This Video is great. Good job!
Great content as always, thanks
Thanks for sharing your position!
After seeing the officials of unity being greedy. Now if all they want to revert back to old terms, we shouldn't let them. If at all they apologize. We users should impose a alt revenue model where you start paying for subscription of pro only after 1 million revenue has been generated and no runtime bs.
Greediness can only be defeated by GREED.
There is no more " until unity makes this right". As a customer there is no way i will install any unity based game or app ever again.
Fight on, brother.
Well said, it's too late for it anyway. No matter what they off, I'm off to Unigine.
Funny thing is, people were already tired of Unity, this is the last push everyone was waiting for,
the engine has become a mess a while ago, editor performance plumetting,
half baked solutions that get abandoned out of nowhere (e.g Kinematica), etc.
Switching to Unreal and Godot. Engine exclusivity was a mistake.
four letters; 'FOSS'
But I haven't been a Unity dev for several days now.....
I had 17 videos (Unity tutorials) planned to record and upload... well I guess I'll instead spend that time Watching tutorials for Godot or something
i dont think the argument of "subscription only works because other companies tried it and it works" is very valid. The reason subscription based purchases work is because its cheap and its a good deal. technically speaking, companies lose money off it, the real reason it works, is because ppl forget about it and most ppl just have a subscription they dont actually use. gym memberships are the best example of this. Not to say the rest of what you might be valid or not, but the logic isnt very good in that sense. Also my opinion, since i use godot anyways and not unity, even if i were a unity developer, i would quit unity, because we've always known that unity was just a big company that cared more about making money than their developers, theyve proven this over and over again. The smart thing to do here, is to quit unity.
In the software context, the subscription model correlated with a massive price increase. It used to be that you bought Photoshop for around $700. But would use it for 3-5 years before buying the latest version at the time. Now, you pay $250 / year for Photoshop and get updates continuously. The only folks saving money on the subscription model are those who bought every upgrade in the past.
Unlike the gym model, Adobe would love for you to use Photoshop every day. They aren't relying on you forgetting about it. Actually, they are relying on you becoming so dependent on it, you'll never spend $70 one-time for Affirm Photo.
not even a 100% walk back would be sufficient, IMO. As long as their TOS includes a clause that allows them to change it at any time regardless of version they can undo their walk back at any time, I would not trust putting years of work and effort into a game project in their engine when they can at any time decide to take steps in this direction again.
now it makes more sense that they bought ironsource
I personally have plan to move my project to other engine's like Godot for example
For sure i will not be easy proses but i thing,
For now i just trying those engine's
And Wean i learn the besics i will try to recreate my project's in whatever egine I end up using
That means at least for a little while i use unity and the other engine side by side in the order to able to recreate my project's
Trast my ther not other way around this
I think the plan was to adopt a revenue share from the begining and this first pricing plan was suppose to soften the blow when the revenue share pricing plan is finally anounced. There is no way in hell someone would think of something as stupid as this. I know the CEO is the EA guy but still.
Same here. I removed all my tutorials from youtube and downloads from itch... well, I've made a last tutorial: "how to uninstall unity"
It would be great if all the Unity devs that are upset with this would move to Godot and help with making it as great if not better than Unity, at the very least there would never ever be a person that just comes and says "Let's start making these devs pay for every person that installs their game"
Godot is rather nice as a Unity refugee.
Honestly, I'd prefer to let Unity collapse and die a slow, painful death. I'm completely done with them, and yes I have invested hundreds of hours into learning the engine and building a project.
The backlash for this is going to be enormous.
I am tempted to remove Unity integration from the audio framework that I maintain. Not that I've ever used it, but I don't even want to tangentially support these kind of practices ..
what they're doing is charging a rent for the bricks you used to build your house years after your house is built. they're renting you bricks
Mastering a game engine requires a huge investment of time that people make under the assumption that the deal Unity advertises is the deal that users will get going forward. To abruptly change the arrangement like they did is a slap in the face, and means that Unity as a company simply cannot be trusted going forward. Their leadership is chasing users away, and Unity needs to decide if it actually wants to greatly shrink their user base. Maybe that's their goal???
i couple months ago i was working on a unity game and thankfully i lost the project i got very mad at the time and switched to godot
If they retract it 120% and give huge discounts as an apology.... then they'll bring it back 200% a bit at a time.
The reason why the price increased is because since 2020 blackrock acquired some share in 2023 up to 6% which they could have proposed a model to increase revenue. Adding the fee to the devs.
The finkster strikes again
Agreed, of they don't completely erase this nonsense. It will be Godot time forever
our future lies in the hands of... unity indie devs. oh boi...
An amazing unity editor interface with exceptional unity scripting API, with C# being a feature packed language, that will fulfill so many dreams of aspiring game developers, all of these jaw-dropping amazing things, will be ruined by a stupid decision by seriously, an ex-EA CEO!!!! A questionable, goddamn RUNTIME FEE!!!!!
I already burned the book i bought on learning Unity.
Is this an end of an era ?
well those months having mental break downs with c++ and unreal doesnt look so bad right now ._."
I PROPOSE A REVALUATION!!! WE MUST FIGHT BACK! EVERYONE START SPAMMING UNITY REDIT AND DISCORD AND ANY OF THERE RUclips VIDEOS! THIS MEANS WAR!!!!!!!!!
Man Unity fucked up so bad it brought Tutemic back. Silver linings.
I already stopped using Unity I am going to start working with unreal soon. I loved working with Unity but no its over
Don't encourage people going in the wrong direction (to Unity's Death), encourage people going to Godot or something.
Yep I'm gonna go learn Godot~
Is godot optimized for 3d because I see some issues
"If they want war, we give em war"
i boycott you for not not posting anything for two years. Dont let him get away with this, guys!
very good video!
I’d be interested to know the % of people on the internet quitting Unity that are directly affected by the new pricing policy
good man!
It raise red flag when the brought the adverting company that handle malware and now this. It an shady move plus game dev have not right to vote so this be abuse of their power to add fee install program into more shady program install to the pc and hidden spyware software.
Unity can still beat unreal, if unity CEO joins unreal as CEO
Yay
Agreed.
It's okay guys, I literally uninstalled as soon as I heard the news. I guess I'm going to Godot now, I hear they support c#
They do support c# but I suggest using gdscript since it's much more integrated than any other language, it's similar to c# so it might not be much difficult to get around ...
For the love everything holy STOP GIVING AUTODESK MORE IDEAS!!!
Steam, xbox, sony, nintendo, apple and android could stop this simply by stating they will not pay fees as the distributor and may consider banning unity games from their platforms, at which point Riccitello would be sacked because no access to platforms no revenue share at all. But instead you suggest developers who have no real power in this situation immaterial what you might think, are the ones who should screw their lives up for some principal when you have no skin in the game. Why don't you get a petition going and contact all the platforms and tell them to apply pressure to Unity?
Unispy is real
Unity I loved you 😪 But since you sold out aka went public, and got that CEO, you've been more evil by the day😢 this is crossing the line. I am done with Unity forever, trust is broken
they just changed again..and again.....this drives me to godot
Буууунт! Бууунт!