How to make your turbo SPOOL FASTER - the simple tips you need to know!
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- Опубликовано: 31 окт 2022
- Here are the 5 things I did to make my turbo spool faster on my evo 9. Any of these tips can be used on any setup for faster spool. #turbo #turbospool #evo #evo9 #bigturbo
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Thank you for responding to my messages and showing me your channel!
No problem brotha
Forgot one of the most important factor, intake camshaft timing. Earlier valve opening and closing traps in more air mass at slower piston speeds, and helps getting residual gases out of the cylinders with increased IVO/EVC overlap event (only works properly on boosted engines when EMAP is lower than intake pressure). Also the dynamic compression increases with early intake closing making possible to compress more dense air charge. All of this increases the engine VE making it to produce more torque.
I actually covered that in the 2nd part of this video series, just put a little more simply comparing one dyno sheet with vvt compared to another with no vvt
Quality. Will still apply to me in the Ej camp. Thank you .
Yup that first dyno sheet I show is of and ej
Great info on usable power VS. big power
💪🏻💪🏻
I had a twinscroll Borg Warmer 8374 EFR turbo which uses a gamma-ti turbine wheel using a ceramic ball bearing cartridge. The Full Race twinscroll system used a dual external waste gates Y’d into a 4 port boost solenoid. Dump tubes where dta. A port and polished head with upgraded titanium intake valves and black nitrided exhaust valves and 272 camshafts. That improved the volumetric efficiency of the motor which helped the transient response of this turbo. Being that the sti was awd made this car wicked fast from a dig.
The dyno sheet I show right at the beginning is a Borg Warner EFR 7163 on a STI. I think EFR are the superior turbos on the market for when it comes to faster spool. I was looking into the efr 7670 myself for a future setup.
How does the size of the wastegate relief port make a difference for the speed of turbo spooling ? . The wastegate will be closed until the turbos fully spoiled anyway ?
A quick spool valve can work with a twin scroll turbo when a divided T3 or T4 outlet exhaust manifold isn't available. Using one on an old Mustang SVO.
I’ve looked into those as well but have never experimented with one
One tuner tip for getting rid of lag.. dont have your low rpm ignition timing advanced too much... the least advanced it is during your expected spool up rpm range the faster it spools up due to much more heat energy from the R-word ignition timing(sorry yt hates the R-word) then you can advance the timing back to normal after the turbo has spooled.. thats how i get full boost at 1600rpm mind you this is on a 347cid engine, but still the lack of turbo lag after doing that ignition timing trick was unreal.
Very interesting!
yep you want advanced ignition timing for NA but the more timing you can pull out mid-high load the more response you see from the turbo and the faster you get into boost and making actual HP! I can see 4psi at 60mph 1800rpm from a 4.0L with a GTX3582r Gen2
you lower timing at spool not because of spool up. adv would actually give you more. you lower it to reduce knock because engines dont like being loaded at lower rpm. this saves your engine from detonation. any tuner worth a pay check for it knows this.
the best and only way to really tune for spool is with a turbo speed sensor and a pressure sensor between the head and turbo. you want the psi at that sensor to match your target psi at the same time the turbo speed is in its efficient rating based on the compression map and your engine. without those 2 sensors you are just guessing.
Jesus why don’t you just say retarded ignition. 🙄 drama queen
retarding timing does put more heat in the exhaust but kills power i prefer to have the right timing and just get the turbo that spools
solid info here
Thanks!
Very informative, I just bought a 2JZ Aristo these vids will help. Thanks. 👍
Keep me updated! Dm me on ig after it gets tuned and stuff
@@Bang4BuckRacing Definitely man, will keep it simple for the time being BPU and that sort.
The only thing I would add my friend to your list would be a turbo blanket. It keeps that heat in and it is proven to spool a little bit faster. Check it out it’s worth looking into.
Yeah someone else’s video already covered that topic didn’t want to steal his thunder. But yes keeping heat and energy in the turbo help.
Although I agree with a smaller wastegate being good for higher boost in smaller turbos and keeping gate shut will help spool the turbo better.... running into issues w boost creep is the next issue or over boosting and running lean... where a secondary waistgate would be optimal... but I think the slight difference in size waistgate internal vs external really doesn't matter if ur closing it off completely to spool... id rather have the ability to bleed it if Slightly better for above reasons...
smaller waistgate size is good for higher psi and larger is better for lower psi... its all about bleeding off power from turbo... after all a closed loop would just build engine speed and back to turbo around and around until blows up eventually... so bleed air slowly for higher psi... bleed air quickly for lower psi
once you go BIG turbo the entire issue flips on its head
Also side note on exhaust manifolds... boost threshold wont change from the length because the flow is already constant inside the header flow is always a better target when choosing manifold... although distance to turbo can make a difference if very far cause loss of heat... so header tape/ceramic or cericoat helps there
I'm board n got nothing better to do... just love theory and engineering type stuff... its fun
I have the same dual port turbosmart WGs, unfortunately the chamber that is supposed to shut, leaks as per design. The one that opens the WG, has 0 leak but the other one leaks around the shaft. Have you tried to build pressure with a handpump in the closing chamber? What is the outcome?
I have the one with a swivel at the end and very tight tolerance machine fit. Yes a tiny bit leaks by but isn’t enough to lose a lot. The ones with the rod coming straight out and no swivel will lose more as well.
Those Turbosmarts are crap but you can seal that rod with right size valve seal, mine came from some Opel. It limits travel a little bit. Better buy those chinese copies for less money, they are as good as Turbosmart.
I'm looking to turbo my lancer, but I'm looking for smallest turbo that can be used (evo x turbo kits fit). I know people say just sell it and get an evo, I've already done some to it. I want the soonest spool, though. Which one would you recommend? I just want 420hp lol.
oem turbine is the best option
thanks. i have a gt35 turbo and it full at 5200rpm but i stopped my power at 370 wheel. i think my intercooler is too big its massive. now i know to change it
Your ic piping
Where I'm from we call it " getting on the gate " , my IWG engine is spooling at 3400rpm and fully on the gate at 3800rpm pulling hard all the way to 7500 redline
Never heard that before I’ll look into it more
Question. You mentioned that the waste gate being internal and smaller was a factor in spool up being quicker. But then you mentioned that the 4 port would keep that closed during spool up.
If the 4 port is keeping the waste ate closed, doesn't that negate the smaller size being better? Having the smaller size would be a drawback to control, right?
I am assuming that even if I had a 60mm external wastegate. If it is closed during spool up it is the same as having no wastegate.
I definitely see your point but in reality how many people are actually get and use a 4 port boost controller? Even a lot of tuners are just scared of what they don’t know and won’t learn how to tune on one to get these types of results . So majority of people will still just use a 3 port, and with out that 4th port holding the gate shut the exhaust gases on its own will push open the gate. And it seems from what i have looked into with a 3 port alot of tuners just always the gate being supplied with air through the entire band.
Even on mine with the 4 port was never fully closed down low but was shut like 75 percent. If you did that exact same thing with a 60 mm it would still lose velocity due to volume size.
But yes in the theory that it’s fully slammed shut I’d say you’d be right. I believe a lot of people setup up EWG setups wrong and lose to much velocity when they don’t have to and if I was a decent size RUclipsr I would build another project to test my theory on but I’m not there yet lol
@@Bang4BuckRacing I don't want you to think I'm trying to debunk you. I was genuinely asking.
I can see how having too big of a wastegate would dump your boost as well. I wasn't aware that the 3 port wasn't able to hold the wastegate closed well enough. But it would make sense that they developed the 4 port to deal with that.
There are electronic external wastegates now as well. Way more expensive, but eliminates the need for vacuum and boost lines to actuate the valve. Pretty cool stuff.
I appreciate you getting back to my question though. A lot of good information in the video and in these comments.
All good my man we’re all hear to learn and grow
My Mazda leaves the waste gate open until it’s under load then closes. I’m trying to find a way to have it close early enough that’ll begin to push air into the engine around 2,500-3k rpm. I don’t know if that means the ECU would be flashed to change the waste gate flow or needing to change some parts
You sound a little mixed up on how the system works brother I suggest doing a little bit of hw
@@Bang4BuckRacing I’m still trying to figure it out, the waste gate duty cycle stays at 50 while stopped then drops to 0 while hard driving. So would that mean the solenoid would close, increasing the turbo speed while under load?
Put more preload on the wastegate.
@@Viciouslordcompression or rebound 😂
Yo! Any specs of that first sheets turbo? :') Great info, thanks
It’s a twin scroll Borgwarner efr 7163 on a 2.5L sti and all things I discuss on this video are factored into his setup
How about the new E-Turbo systems that are coming to the street from Garrett and F1? An electric motor spooling the turbo faster from idle, and thus eliminating lag all together. It is already on the F1 converted engine of the MBZ AMG One Hypercar.
Then why is the Honda motor Red Bull F1 race car always winning?
@@weduhpeople8504 I don't know enough about their program. But, Honda is pulling out and Redbull is using the same setup after negotiating with Honda for it. I believe there is some secret cheating going on, these manufactures are not stupid. And, of course RedBull has extremely deep pockets.
Can I put a turbo from a CAT 3126 engine on a 1.8l Toyota Matrix and expect it to spool at all? I'm building a car I got for free into sorta a joke and I have the turbo I just don't want to waste my time fabricating everything. I plan on venting the intake so I'm not actually boosting the engine, I just want to make monster turbo sounds from a little beater car.
That o have no idea but if that turbo is massive that’s Exactly opposite of what I talk about in this video lol
@@Bang4BuckRacing Oh it's massive, haha.
I never know how to properly size my turbine housing
I assume I need a turbo first to experience boost response?
Yes lol
Hey how does a 4 port boost solenoid make the turbo spool faster ? I'm new to all this
Slamming the wg shut at lower Rpms to where even exhaust gases cant open the wg like on a 3 port. When it slammed shut the turbo builds more energy sooner and the only place to escape is the down pipe forcing it to spool faster.
@@Bang4BuckRacing What if you T off a 3 port and run lines to the top and bottom?
@@Jamxknife I did that on my Subaru and saw no real gains it doesn’t provide ample pressue imo like a 4 port does with a extra dedicated port to slam the gate shut
@@Bang4BuckRacing Ok! I’ll give my 4 port a shot. I had one for 2 years and never installed it.
@Bang4BuckRacing so even with the stock internal wastegate it's not fully closed before you hit targeted boost? Just curious cause I'm doing all these things to my evo to increase spool for autocross
Have you ever tried to calculate how much difference it would make with larger intercooler and pipes? I ran some calculations and it shows that going from 2 inch Evo size intercooler to 4 inch and from 2.5 inch to 3 inch intercooler pipes would make 0.03 sec difference...)))
Here is a post on forum for a while back that I referenced. The IC piping plays a little bit more of a factor than the intercooler it’s self.
“you want to run the smallest possible without going over a certain air speed. 304 MPH or 0.4 mach is the point at which airflow meets increased resistance (drag) and flow losses are experienced.
Depending on which turbo your running and what hp your looking for will determine piping size. to small is a restriction and to larger is laggy. generally for the average setup 2.25-2.5" is what works
here is info i found on mach speeds of certain size piping relavent to cfm flow
2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach
2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach
2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach
2.75" piping
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
500 cfm = 137 mph = 0.17 mach
600 cfm = 165 mph = 0.21 mach
700 cfm = 192 mph = 0.25 mach
800 cfm = 220 mph = 0.28 mach
900 cfm = 248 mph = 0.32 mach
1000 cfm = 275 mph = 0.36 mach
1100 cfm max = 303 mph = 0.40 mach
3.0" piping
7.065 sq in = 3.5325 x 2
300 cfm = 69 mph = 0.09 mach
400 cfm = 92 mph = 0.12 mach
500 cfm = 115 mph = 0.15 mach
600 cfm = 138 mph = 0.18 mach
700 cfm = 162 mph = 0.21 mach
800 cfm = 185 mph = 0.24 mach
900 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
1000 cfm = 231 mph = 0.30 mach
1100 cfm = 254 cfm = 0.33 mach
1200 cfm = 277 mph = 0.36 mach
1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach”
Well, it is going to have some effect for sure but it's not that critical as most of us think. The difference in the air mass with different volumes in so small so an average size turbo can move it with almost no difference comparing to smaller intercooler and pipes. What really affects the spool is the TB size...
To me every inch counts even if it’s 100 rpm difference. It’s the whole equation to me that produces the results.
True. Everything counts especially if you do the whole lot...
also its good for your viewers to understand that fast response isnt for everyone. with faster spool times, means more stress at lower rpm, more stress on the crank, and more induced heatsoak and camber heat earlier on. which are the main killers of turbo engines besides the obvious main killer of all engines, cold dry oiling start. it requires changing oil more to monitor engine health and heavily thought out induction as well as cooling to keep egts and iats in check.
I agree 100 percent there’s more maintenance that comes with it and more stress I have personally experienced it.
No mention of A/R size ?
That’s kinda falls under the size of the turbo but yeah I didn’t go into detail on that. Because even if you get a turbo with a bigger a/r size but use the other factors it will still spool quicker.
Can you just slap a big angry spring in the waste gate actuator and build your boost like that? Imagine idling at 0.5 - 1.0 psi😂
You kinda can lol, but exhaust gases can still forced it open and most 3 port setups help force it open all the time as well, so a 4 port really seals it off.
Got damn...pulls like a freight train
Exaclty 😤
It should, in a straight line. Without boost on the parking lot autocross, it plows like a truck
what turbo was he running?
Borg Warner efr 7163 twin scroll IWG. I believe the EFR series are the superior turbos for faster spool.
@@Bang4BuckRacing damn, that the exact same turbo i was looking into, is his motor stroked or stock displacement?!
@@TheSaftouch his is a built block 2.5 sti so still stock displacement. And I believe 8.5:1 CR
learn to read compressor maps dont use billet gimmick turbos spec out the right turbo for your combo and build the right timing map and fuel map
I hope you got criptonyte rods...because with that amount or torque at low rpms...omg...
🤣 I actually made that on a stock 4g63 block for a year now I’m going built 2.2L
Be careful, that low rpm torque makes things spontaneously deconstruct...
Volume of the turbo plumbing has neglible effect on turbo lag, the turbo has such a high CFM it litterally does not matter, do the math on the time to fill its basically nothing. Its the surface area of the exhaust that effects turbo lag not its volume, this is because the exhaust tempreture is reduced by higher surface area pipes, lower temp exhaust means lower exahaust energy and thus less energy scavenged by the turbine and more lag and a higher threshold, insulating those exhaust pipes remedies this. Watch the driving 4 answers videos on remote turbos. Otherwise good video.
Put your glasses on !
🤣 I got them after making this video. Will have them on for next one
Fyi turbos spin over 100,000 rpm not 10-20k
Ya I caught that mistake awhile back
I found out how to add a manual caption to correct that
Yes, but if you drive correctly spooling is a non-issue
In a straight line sure some corners on tracks and for autox especially you get lower in the Rpms. But you knew that 😀
For fux sake.. twin charge and problem solved ;) or use a sequential turbo setup... if you realy are bored of life then do a compund turbo setup. :)
too many variables... I do what I can on the tuning side based on the hardware installed on the car.
Disagree I religiously look up Dyno sheets compared with build sheets these all tend to be contributing factors to faster spool.
EWG > IWG 😂
Dyno sheet! 🤣
Dat holy grail tho 🤣
.
yea u better try 100.000 rpm on the turbo
Yeah I mis spoke if you look at the captions at the point I corrected it
First
my man
Ha ha ha, a 10,000 to 15,000 rpm spinning turbo wheel! You better do your homework before you create part 2 of this series. How about 100 to 150 thousand rpm. One of many things incorrect in this video, just saying. 😂😂
I actually caught that myself a while back that I slipped up there maybe input the text in RUclips editor there, but regardless of referencing a wrong number I still stand by the factors in the video. I have seen another 8 dyno sheets with spool before 4000 rpm and discussed with the owners all extremely similar to what I recommend in this video.
Couldn’t watch any more , so much info wrong
You’re welcome to dm me on ig with other data and dyno sheets spooling equally as fast as what I have shown in this video. Just cause you saw I said IWG spools faster I’m sure. But I’ll wait
Drag racing is such a murican sport.
At least put ONE corner in there somewhere.
If you just want max acceleration why not use rocket or jet engines? Or why not just build rockets?
There's nothing in drag racing that corresponds to 'normal' driving at all. Besides start and stop anyway.
I get the novelty of it all, but I can't understand how you guys are so committed to it. At some point aren't you guys like, "Ok getting the hang of this go-stop bit now. Of only there wasn't another go-stop afterwards, then I could do it twice. HEY, if I make those bits between the go-stops go round sideways, I can bring it back over here and then I never have to stop.... 🤯
I'd better start with just one, maybe two sideways roads between me go-stops tho. Never tried go sideways bit scary...."
And yes, Cleetus MFreedombang did get scared, so decided to just stick with the two sideways bits and just make them sideways untill they was backwards.
"Two backwards sideways bits will do, don't like them much. I just want to go fast for as long as possible.....
FUCkin Nnnuuurmmmm. 🤤
And that boys and girls and retards is where NASCAR came from....
Brother did you see any drag racing in this video? I do autox and time attack on tracks.. that’s why I prioritize boost response so I can get out of the corner faster.
Lol this wing is ugly😂😂
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