Debriefing Purity Culture: Is sex before marriage wrong?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- James and I both grew up in purity culture and both saved sex for marriage. And today we’re talking about that! We’re debriefing our segment on purity culture + sex, and sharing what we’re learning about a biblical view of sex! Welcome back to the "Outgrowing the Good Christian Girl" podcast! XOXO, Tiffany
HERE ARE TODAY'S QUESTIONS:
Q1: What did you grow up believing about sex, and have those beliefs changed? (@0:11)
Q2: What do you believe about a healthy biblical sexuality now? (@2:55)
Q3: Does the Bible really say to save sex for marriage? (@3:53)
Q4: Let’s talk about the way we approach modesty + bikinis in conservative evangelical circles. Is our approach helpful or harmful? (@10:55)
Q5: Does saving sex until marriage = a great marriage? Does a sexual past and/or masturbation = a ruined marriage? (@16:20)
Q6: What started purity culture, and what would have been a better way to approach sexuality in the church? (@19:23)
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THE WEDDING NIGHT TALKS:
From James and Tiffany Dawn!
What you need to know about sex before the wedding.🔥
tiffanydawn.th...
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NEW VIDS on FRIDAYS: Season 2 of "Outgrowing the Good Christian Girl"! 💕
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A wording change that I’ve been trying to use is “sex *outside* of marriage” instead of *before* because no one is promised marriage, so the message of not having sex *before marriage adds to the subconscious reasons we (I know I have) place marriage on a pedestal, as an idol or “destination” to strive for. But when we change the wording to “outside” of God’s design of covenant marriage it covers all sexual immorality (adultery/extramarital affairs) and puts my mind in a frame of protecting my sexual purity as an act of obedience and honor to the Lord instead of only for my (possible but not promised) future husband.
Thank you for sharing this conversation!
I’ve never thought about that but it’s interesting that at some point over the years evangelicals have changed from using the phrase “sex before marriage” to “sex outside of marriage.” Or maybe it’s just myself and my peers since most of us are married now and not teens anymore.
@@mmartens3 I have yet to hear anyone in my Southern Baptist church contexts use “outside” rather than “before” when speaking on this, and I hope that the youth growing up now will receive better messaging than I did growing up in the remnants of purity culture. I’m encouraged to hear that the evangelical circles you see and hear from, along with you and your peers have shifted to this wording!
So good! Thanks for sharing.
Wow so good! Thanks for sharing❣
What a great perspective and word choice! Thank you for sharing this!!
I just want to commend James for providing compassionate and thoughtful responses to these topics. I was deeply impressed by how thoughtfully and maturely he navigated these difficult topics.
Awwwww!!! That is so sweet! I’ll share this with him!❤️❤️❤️
He is obviously a smart and caring guy
Thanks for the videos beautiful couple
I love his input, it’s so important to get both opinions and hearing what each of you has to say…hearing from both of you is such a blessing to me! Sincerely, thank you so much!!
I FULLY agree!!!!!
I always thought of the question of sex before/outside of marriage like this: Healthy sex is between two people who have committed themselves to each other, who want to live monogamously and who love each other truly. And you are much more likely to find that within marriage, so that's why it's a sort of guideline to make sure you are safe.
Yep, since being sexual with someone else is the most vulnerable position someone can be in.
What a great perspective!! Thank you for sharing this!
I disagree. Plenty of people can have healthy sex without committing to each other.
glad to see people here that can see past the doctrines than others who see them as dead strict and meaningless rules only to be followed, coz then prohibition of eating tree roots could come about one day and people blindly following without knowing reason why
I love what you two said at 18:52 "We're broken people and God redeems us. And we all bring brokenness of whatever kind it is into marriage, and we work through it together. No matter how 'right' you've done things or not." Not married or in a relationship right now, but this thought helped me feel less shameful or scared to try to be in one. I've shunned people away thinking I'm not right for a relationship or shouldn't be one because of my brokenness. That I needed to be 'whole' and ready before I even entertain or show my affection to anyone. I've always been scared that my brokenness can backfire and ruin my relationship and I would be left alone. Really loved how you emphasized that it could be something beautiful. Praying that I'd also meet someone who would embrace my brokenness and have what you and James have :)
It is wonderful to hear you and James discuss sex and the messages we’ve received as kids in purity culture. Having grown up in the same church as James, I have experienced such deep shame for my own body and desires.
Undoing that programming has been challenging… even to this day.
Thank you so much for talking about this and helping normalize the fact that we are sexual beings.
Every video you make has helped me in so many ways! Your channel has given me the talks and answers I always needed growing up❤️ you have helped me heal from bad advice given to me as a teenager by removing shame from the warnings we’re given by church or leaders who we look up to. Thank you for the videos!!!
That means the world to hear!! Thank you!! 😭😭❤️❤️❤️❤️
Love this so much Tiffany and James! I always happen to come across one of your videos when I have questions like these and they give so much insight, also, you guys leave a lot of room for us to do our own research and ask the right questions. I have been saying things like what you were saying in this video for years, based on what I have studied from scripture but I often second-guessed myself because no one else were saying these things in my church community. Appreciate you guys, appreciate this avenue to learn and to be free to ask questions and to also welcome the idea of faith and the physical/sexuality having a middle ground because God created all of it. Much love from St. Lucia! 🏝🇱🇨
😭😭❤️❤️❤️ thank you so much for your encouragement!! And for having the courage to ask the questions before other people were willing to!! I can imagine it would have been so easy to second guess yourself!
So I’m coming in at 12 though I need to go back because this is the first one I’ve ever watched. I want to watch them all but couldn’t help but skip to this when I saw it because I gotta know 😁 I think this is day 3 on your channel, I just found it and can’t stop, what a blessing this channel is😭
Starting at 19:57 he just really gets to the root of the issue (not what are we saying in opposition to the world or purity culture but what does the bible say) 💗💗💗💗Yessss! LOVE IT.
YESSS exactly!!!! 👏👏👏❤️❤️❤️
This was so enlightening and helpful! I love hearing from you guys! God bless you! ❤️
I’m so glad!!❤️❤️❤️
Oh Tiffany!! 😂 Whilst all of this is of course just so wonderful, compassionate and releasing to hear, I would just like to take a moment to share my absolute hilarity with you and James, because the conversation you have where James is relaying how you and your Mum talk about stuff (ie. you saying “I remember when I was a kid and xyz happened!” and your Mum says 🤔 “Well I’m not sure that’s right, at all….?!” and you respond “No I’m absolutely certain that this happened!” etc) is EXACTLY me and my own Mum 🤣🤣🤣🙈🙈 SO MANY TIMES I try to talk to my parents about stuff from when I was a kid or a teen and they’re both like 😳🤔🤨 where is this coming from?!!! I think it’s so, so funny, and I have to say I’m relieved, because I honestly thought it was just me 😂🙈🙌🏻 I think we all have our own memories don’t we, and how we’ve processed them isn’t always completely reflective of the situation, because of course, we don’t know what or how the other person is thinking or feeling in that moment, which clouds their own memory of certain events!! 🤷🏻♀️ But I’m just so tickled to hear that you and she have the exact conversations that we do, oh my gosh 🤣🤣💖
I love the way tiffany listens to him 😭
Awwwww❤️❤️❤️
Excellent Tiffany and James! Thank you for what you do.
Awwwwe thank you so much for this encouragement!!❤️❤️❤️
Your channel is so refreshing, I’ve been watching you for years and you’ve helped me so much and it’s been so nice watching your marriage grow. God bless y’all ❤️
I love you guys and loved this episode but just wanted to point out that I’m a 17-year-old and I definitely have the maturity and foundation in God to explore sensitive/nuanced topics from various sides without being led astray. That’s probably not the case for some teenagers, but it is for others, and it sounded like James was saying that if you’re young this isn’t a discussion for you yet which I don’t think is always true. It had me momentarily doubting if my experiences and questions are relevant because of my youth. No hate intended, i know it was a throwaway comment and you two are amazing - I can’t count the number of times I’ve thanked God for you and your videos. Just wanted to point that out❤️
I really really appreciate that perspective!! That’s so good for us to keep in mind. And I definitely think a 16yo is ready to talk about these topics. Thank you so much for sharing this!❤️❤️❤️
Thanks for your reply Tiffany and thanks again for all you do with this channel!❤️
Sheila Gregoire says that the lust conversation and the modesty conversation should be two separate conversations. Modesty is about honoring God and honoring/respecting our own bodies.
Love that!!! What a great delineation!!
On the topic of modesty, I did grow up in a fairly religious household but my family never placed any significance on modesty. On the contrary, I was far too self-conscious to show my body at all when I was younger. As an adult, I feel so proud that I now have the confidence to go to the beach in a two piece bathing suit and 100 percent enjoy the sun just like everybody else.
What is truly modest is having the humility to accept others no matter how clothed or unclothed they are. And I do mean that in the extreme. Be someone naked or covered from head to toe. I don’t really see how it should make any difference in how I treat someone.
I enjoyed this discussion! Thank you both :)
Okay I love this y’all give me so much hope!💛But I also love the Christmas tree on the background 😂😂👏🏻💚 don’t know when y’all recorded this but yeah love y’all! 😅🥰❤️
I had a speaker back in my Christian college who talked about masturbation. He was so tired of the church shaming people for doing it, so he decided to give a well-meaning, but misguided message that backfired horribly. Basically said, in a very Christian round-about way, that if you think about your "future wife" it's probably okay. The response? Hundreds and hundreds of horny Christian dudes hollering "HE SAID IT WAS OKAY!!!"
This of course made all of the girls even more uncomfortable to which the their response was "Your future wife said it's not okay."
Much debates and conversations and reinforcements of negative teachings ensued, and nothing really changed.
The church went off on a tangent with this issue at some point centuries ago and we've never recovered. They reasoned that because it's for reproduction, it must ONLY be for reproduction, pretty much ignoring the Bible. In modern times we've eased up on this a little, but we look for verses in the Bible to build a "theology" about it.
This is unwise. How human society dealt with this aspect of human life and its complications, its values and customs varied across place and time, and these differences are reflected in various parts of the Bible just like any other ancient literature. The Bible reveals more about ancient practices than offer a theology or make statements directly relevant to today. For example, the Bible rarely mentions doing it before marriage because most girls were given in marriage when they were still children. That means moral guidance in the Bible fails to directly address the situation we find ourselves in today where by late teens people are still unmarried yet nature is telling them to go to bed.
Trouble is, it's a biological function no different to eating, sleeping, or anything else. What writers in the Bible were consistently concerned about was living as God's people, which means doing the right thing by one another, building relationships and trust, avoiding hurting and harming others especially for personal gain, expressing humility and respect instead of arrogance and greed. It therefore means to be faithful to your partner, to manage your desires and not let them control your life so that you make unwise choices. Each person is different, in a different situation, with different strengths and weaknesses, different needs and desires, so that imposing one set of rules for all fails us.
For example, if youth are told not to do something and so they're not expecting themselves to do it, then eventually they can end up so frustrated that nature takes its course and they find themselves in an unplanned encounter. This can result in incredible guilt, unwanted pregnancy, infection, and damaged relationships. Not to mention further issues you raised in your talk.
Browsing the local library, I chanced upon a secular book that gave advice on this issue. I was so impressed. It didn't say to do what you feel like, it gave wise and practical advice. For example, it said not to let one partner pressure the other into something they don't feel ready for. it said being in a hurry to jump into bed means missing out on many pleasures of a naturally developing relationship such as holding hands, first kiss, enjoying physical and emotional companionship.
That's the sort of message the church needs to give, accepting that by late teens people want to have secs, giving advice on how to do it in a way that honours God and loves their neighbour, while at the same time emphasizing the value and benefit of faithful marriage as the ultimate domain for intimate relationship. Instead, it's straitjacketed by tradition, unwilling to let go of some supposed command of God that doing it before marriage is a sin, failing to give much needed direction, and causing harm.
I feel James on not remembering a lot of specific things being told to me... just always purity culture heavy and I was terrified boys had horrible intentions all the time as teenagers. I didn't trust them at all, I didn't realize it until I was an adult but I did not trust boys as a teenager and thought all of them approaching me would only be to have sex with me - nothing else. Which is really sad, because I missed out on having guy friends until now... i missed out on a lot lol.
Oh my goodness I relate to this so so so much!!!!!! It really is so sad!!😭😭❤️❤️❤️
Hello Tiffany! Would you be interested in having an interview about the effects of purity culture has had on dating, relationships, marriage and women’s mental health? I would love to share my story with you and your lovely audience. ❤
Does anyone knows what Podcast James is talking about at 9:00 ??
I loved this conversation!
I’m so glad!!!
I might have heard you wrong but you said something about sex before marriage not being a salvation issue. Could you please give some clarity? (more for those younger in the faith listening). You didn't mean sex before marriage is an option but it just isn't the better one, right? Even though we're saved by grace we still have to be careful about wilfully sinning.
My husband and I have been together for 9 years, married for 4 we got married at 5 years. We started dating at 16, married at 21. We didn’t have sex until it felt natural for us, which was about a year into dating. We had sex years before marriage and I don’t regret it. Just because we weren’t married, it was still beautiful, bonding experience and it benefited our relationship. It didn’t define us and it wasn’t a 24/7 thing but it was great. Didn’t feel any difference after we got married. I even sometimes wish I would have slept around just for the experience before marriage. We all
Have different lives and convictions. I’m bi sexual so wish I would have experience sex with a woman but most likely won’t happen any time soon.
I love that you didn’t rush it and paid attention to when it felt natural! And I loved hearing your story and perspective on this! Thank you ❤️❤️
This is random but sorta related to this I'm the nakedness realm. LOL, I'm an Activities Director at a Nursing Home & as I'm listening to this video I look at my activities calendar & was convinced I put down "2:00 Skinny Dipping"
Turns out I wrote "Skits" hahaha
In* not I'm
LOL!!!!!!! That’s AMAZING 😂😂😂
What podcast are you guys talking about?
Oh great question!! It’s the previous two episodes of our podcast which you can watch here or on apple podcasts / Spotify. Here are the RUclips links to the previous two episodes we were discussing:
-Interview with Kat: ruclips.net/video/xz4odSgQjXE/видео.html
-Interview with Sheila: ruclips.net/video/uQtA9yYwdSk/видео.html
❤️❤️❤️
There are things in the Bible that were cultural and historical accounts not that they were condoned or approved by God. We live in a very sinful world. I’m very disappointed to see how you are leading ppl astray by deconstruction.
“Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.”
1 Corinthians 7:1-2 NIV
Please explain???
Agreed. I never take theology from anyone on the internet bc plenty are being led astray. Take away what lines up with the bible and throw away the rest
With regards to your deconstruction and leading ppl into false theology, can you share or define the purpose of marriage? Ultimately marriage was created by God to be between two heterosexual people who are committed to each other in a covenant called marriage. Sex is the most intimate and bonding experience between such married couples. Marriage is a foreshadow of Christ and His church - why is this neglected?
Do you think Christ intends for people to sleep around or go to other gods to fulfill their needs?
Maybe I’m not communicating this very well but I think this is something that needs to be taken in account.
Must I also give warning:
“Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.”
James 3:1 NIV
@@thesb2836 is that true what did tiffany said???
@@thesb2836 Amen!!!!
Masturbation is a sin because sex is meant for marriage. It is addicting and it better to not start if you haven't. Overcoming it is so good for the soul
Other than that really appreciate these kinds of conversations
Boobs are apparently only sexualised in 20%of the world’s culture. The more they tell women to cover up the more they’re sexualised. Cover your ankle, then ankles are sexualised. Cover hair, hair is then sexualised. Etc. dress in a way that makes you feel beautiful and comfortable Huns! Xox
Your tree! Ha ha. Mine's still up too! 🤷♀️
Lol!!! I love that yours is still up too!!
Marriage is described as the physical union of two people, so sex. Marriage life itself is much more nuanced than that, but determining marriage status is simply sex itself. Losing your virginity as a teen with some random person and then marrying someone else down the road means you married two people. You still have that spiritual tie to them, regardless of your thoughts about it. That's why we should wait until the commitment of marriage, because sex IS the start of marriage. Not a marriage license, or government paperwork, nor the vows, or the minister's words, or the ceremony. It's the consummation of that commitment. The reason you "wait until marriage" is because we should wait until we are COMMITTED to being IN a marriage with our SO to do the deed, BECAUSE SEX IS THE START OF THE UNION OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE, straight or gay. You want to be married in God's eyes, not the state's eyes. Marriage isn't the ceremony, but what happens afterwards in the bedroom. Adam and Eve didn't go to a courthouse, they just went at it. God was there to witness their union and give them their marriage status. Again, the start of a married life in God's eyes IS sex.
Adam and Eve are never described as married. That is something we read into it that isn't there
Of course sex outside of marriage is always wrong and of course Jesus affirmed biblical marriage, gender and sexuality. 2,000 years of Christendom accepted this as well as modesty and only since the radical feminist movement invaded the church has this been questioned. The fact that these podcasters want to redefine what scripture means is a red flag not to take their advice.
Paul says in 1 Corinthians
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Nice nice, on the bit about monogamy if you read what jesus said to the pharisees about divorce. He also went on to describe what I can only describe to be the institution of marriage. He goes back to the model that was set in the beginning by the father and he gives the criteria. One man to one woman clear as day. So he also rules out homosexuality and polygamy. Why I also say this is because he says what God has put together let no man put asunder is often interpreted as the man and woman being pulled apart or their marriage. I contest that what he may also be referring to was also the institution of what a marriage is and not just a man and woman being together because he also said divorce is not permitted except for sexual immorality.
On masturbation I have to explore that a bit more because my discovery of it was innocent as well but I can also argue ignorance doesn't justify but rather allows for leniency, if you will. Again I can't say masturbation in itself is wrong but really the heart or motive behind it is what gives way to sin. I can masturbate for a doctor to take a semen sample and by no means is that a sin but can I masturbate outside of that arena and not lust in any form or fashion? Well that's the question or a question possibly.
But yeah, great talk guys. Keep it up.
You dont need to mastubate at all for those of us single. And come on we got it easy. Guys are the ones that mostly fuel with sex cause of their hormones. But even they dont need to mastubate.
We live in such a sex obsesse culture.
@@Sherlock245 Well if I have given off the impression of it being a necessity of sorts. That's not really my point and yes do agree with you masturbation is not a necessity nor is sex neither dear I say marriage. Paul said he hoped they would be like him. Now I'm being extreme there as was Paul a bit. I know it the scripture on it's not good for man to be alone and all that. Point is whether it's a necessity or not it's a thing. Sex has saturated media. You can say men have it harder but seeing how society is today the lines seem a little blurred to me in some cases. Being slave to nothing and having self control, yes the goal we should all aim for through the liberty christ gives us from man's rules and sin but just like Paul's thorn in his flesh this is just one that a lot of people carry around for whatever reason and the same remedy applied. God's grace is sufficient.
@@joshuamoore2341 still no excuse being slave to mastubation. If a man urge to rape women does it mean it should be allowed? Or how about a married couple and the man keep demanding sex?? Should the wife just roll over and give it?? Paul was not saying okay guys mastubstion is just so difficult to control so its okay to go ahead and flirt around..
Noooooooooo!!!! You must take action and stop it!!!
I am a girl so what do i know?? But even we have mastubation issues too and still it applies!!
No freaking jack excuse sir!!!!!
@@Sherlock245 This is why you see people turn away from the church so very easily. Here me out. Not once did I claim masturbating to be good. I didn't say that any of what I said was a reason to masturbate or allow it. Jesus defined what marriage should be in his speech yet david and various kind and other men of old went against that. Jesus met people who sinned sat down and ate with them. I say all that to say how God deals with sin in our live is far different to how we try to deal with it. Often time working against what God does.
Jesus came and set the captives free and who the son sets free is truly free indeed and another scripture says we sin daily in words deeds and thoughts. Now because we sin daily does that mean we are slave to sin since you of your self said we should not be slave and it's no excuse. You yourself ma'am are you contradicting yourself? Are you looking at the spec in your brother or sisters I as we clearly ought not to have ourselves slave to anything yet you sin daily and if you say otherwise you claim that the word lies. So where do we now stand ma'am? Where do we stand truthfully? Surely christ said it was finished and it is. We keep it alive.
My job is to believe in his work and carry on with his will. I deal with my issues some days better than our and God knows I want to be perfect but can't and am damn near fed up of trying because it feels impossible but I go on not because of myself but him and only him. I believe you need to take a step back. I make no excuses for myself though I may try or for anyone else. I am my own worse critic. No where in scripture you see christ speak to people the way you do except for the hypocrites that were supposed to recognize who he was but were so high on religion the totally missed it. What you say may be true but ultimately helps no one because you lack the wisdom that jesus used and gives to administer the gospel.
That’s a great passage to go back to when it comes to marriage! we always love hearing your thoughtful perspectives! 🤗
I believe sex before marriage is ok if you both ready and love deeply for each other and promise to stay together forever until death happen. Sex should not happen before marriage if you feeling attractive or keeping sinful intention just to satisfy your urges.
Then you my girl have no control .
Love hearing your perspective!! It really is such a personal decision to think and study about. ❤️❤️❤️
Sex is woman Desision woman have to not jugde man