Your light and pigment analogy was really spot on for explaining the differences between how the Source and the First view Astral and Umbral. Really enjoyed this episode!
@@dale7326 Quite possibly. Right now we only know what's happening in two of the shards; the First, and the Thirteenth. 7 others have been rejoined to the source (destroyed), leaving only 4 others unaccounted for. There is some wild speculation that FF16 might take place on one of the Shards, due to thematic similarities with 14, but that also just might just be the result of the creatives exploring ideas that they weren't able to integrate into 14 in an unrelated story.
I'm a little confused, for Astral energies why did you use terminologies that would be categorized as tragedies? Then Umbrel, why connect it too an item used on a day too day basis?
@@craigmitivier637 I believe it's due to the active/passive natures of those scenarios. Something like a tidal wave is visceral, it can, and likely will create change. A small pond would be stagnant, and likely unchanging, therefore being passive.
One thing we have to consider with the behaviours of Voidsent and Sin Eaters. Voidsent are active, chaotic and always on the move. They possess more personality, ambition and aggression, actively betraying each other and manipulating others for their own gain. They talk, boast, taunt others, hold people hostage and a myriad of other acts. They behave like individuals, morally corrupt individuals with no inhibition or self control. Sin Eaters operate more like a hive. They gather around the largest of their kind, who are content to sit in some hole and just gouge on aether, occasionally sweeping through some village to do so. They don't act with a sense of individualism, and behave very much like drones in a hive mind. They don't talk, or do anything, other than act on an instinct of feeding. They possess no free will, they have no personality or ambition.
You could also argue that the Source's warriors of LIGHT are trying their best to preserve the status quo (Hydaelyn's preservation, countering the Dark and it's minions), hence causing a sort of stasis where as those pushing the agenda of the Dark seek change, even if it's not in everyone's best interests.
There's an interesting line when you beat Leviathan - he will say something to the effect of "My waters are stilled... is this the power of the Light?" DEFINITELY something to consider...
Something worth mentioning about Umbral electric/Fire is that we do see Umbral electricity in The churning mists, which has a weather called Umbral static. In addition, background lore officially states that Ul’dah is aspected towards Fire all the time, but it’s Umbral which causes a giant desert.
I cannot believe that I, for the first 30 seconds of this video, was like "hmm, where have I heard this background music from before?" only to then realize, "oh right, FF14... go figure"
Wonderfully edited and informative video Jesse, just as before! There is one thing I'd mention too though: How some areas have different amounts of aspected aether. Like Coerthas has a lot of astral ice aether so is cold and snowy, while Thanalan has a lot of umbral fire aether so is dry and hot.
I'm so happy to see your passion for this game grow into such a well put together and important series to the game. Keep going! I'm so proud of you and everyone involved.
@@Skyblade12 You mean the free trial to the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, which includes the entirety of A Realm Reborn AND the award-winning Heavensward expansion up to lvl60 with no restrictions on playtime? I heard you can sign up, and enjoy Eorzea today!
What I find interesting is that Hydaelyn and Zodiark represent our understanding of Astral and Umbral perfectly, as well. Hydaelyn actively chooses champions to further her cause and even speaks and appears before people. Zodiark, however, has never been seen nor heard in the entirety of FFXIV. We've seen a dark crystal, yes, but never Zodiark himself. But that doesn't mean they fully encompass what we believe to be Astral and Umbral. Just as Hydaelyn has her Warriors of Light, so too does Zodiark have the Ascians. Darkness overtook The Thirteenth, but Light nearly stole The First. And people are all so quick to turn on Hydaelyn and call her evil because of what happened on The First, but what really happened there? Ascians caused the flood of light. Who stopped the flood of light? Hydaelyn. Hydaelyn sacrificed a massive amount of her power to halt the flood and even gave up her only way of speaking, namely Minfillia, to help us in our fight. I don't think Hydaelyn or Zodiark is evil. I think they're balanced and are both capable of active and passive interaction with the world.
One thing I would say is that, interestingly. Hydaelyn and Zodiark also perfectly represent the First’s understanding of ‘Light’ and ‘Dark’ as well. Zodiark and his followers’ goals are to actively cause the Calamities to cause the Rejoining. They encourage the summoning of Primals which actively absorb in the surrounding Aether. Meanwhile, Hydaelyn’s whole purpose is to keep Zodiark in check - in stasis, essentially. The goals of the ‘Warrior of Light’ is to bring about peace and stability a to make the world more passive. It’s one of the great bit of storytelling in the game that the concepts of Astral Dark and Umbral Light work even on the characters associated with them.
Or both Hydaelyn and Zodiark can be both Astral and Umbral like any other elements depending on the circumstances. In a way they mirror each other. LoL
Interesting thought! Maybe the Source's views on "Light/Active/Astral" vs. "Dark/Passive/Umbral" might purely be a result of Hydaelyn being active and Zodiark being imprisoned there, while the first is more about the way pre-sundering Zodiark consumed life for actions, vs Hydaelyn putting a stop to that.
For real, when Urianger talks to much i'm forced to skip because i fucking lose my mind (i'm spanish and for me it's hard enough to pay attention to this extense narrative in a different lenguage)
@@xanxv1246 it always amazes me how there isn't a spanish translation of this game, we have french and german, no direspect to those of course, but spanish is MUCH more widely spoken
@@wolfspledge1762 yeah... sadly this happens with barely all Square Enix games, there is a lot of games that for some reason don't support spanish, i find that if FFXIV had a spanish traduction (not even voice, just game text) they would have tons of players, both Southamerica and Spain would play this game way more
My personal thoughts for the ending question are that whether order/stagnation and chaos/change are good or bad is a matter of perspective based on one's position. If you're in the middle of a thriving civilization that thinks itself Hydaelyn's gift to Eorzea, then of course you'd want to keep that around, even as the luster starts to fade. On the opposite end, if you've lost everything in a calamity and are struggling to pick up the pieces, then of course you'd take any change you can get, because even danger would be better than having absolutely nothing. This even ties into how the eras cycle between prosperity and calamity, with each era having its own problems and highlights.
I love teacher Jesse's energy, it helped me reinforce things I already knew from the game but also gave me a new perspective to look at it--like I didn't think about how the graph was structured. Props to Dan for adding that old ass Classroom TV and vhs player for presentations
The issue here is that you constantly looking at everything as good/evil light/dark. Embrace the analogy. Embrace the themes. Hydaline is by definition stasis. She binds Zodiark. She bring peace to the storm. She brings passivity. Which allows enough peace for growth to take place. If there is too much peace than you get Eulmore. Too much stasis and there is no drive to move forward, too much peace. Zodiak is change. He is chaos. He is not evil. The very concept of the warrior of light as spawned by Elidibus as Zodiarks core is the driving factor of Zodiak. He was summoned to save the star. He is the star's will made manifest by beings of change. The original Ascians are beings of change. They could create on a whim. the world a canvas to their mind's brush. Each one capable of creating life and bending reality. And they were not evil. They summon Zodiak as the penultimate expression of their outlook on the universe. The ultimate change. The ultimate driving force to CREATE and REFORGE the rules of the universe that were breaking down. To save the word. And he did. But he is a storm. He is change eternal. Which is why he had to be bound. He had the power to forge a new future and he did, but he didn't stop. Hydalin was summoned to restrain him. She was to bring order to the chaos of his unbridled creation. Not as an act of evil or destruction. But again to save the star. To restrain but not destroy. To calm but not pacify. Both primals want to save the world. Both powers are neither inherently good or inherently bad. Both can bring cataclysmic destruction. Both are one half of the will of the star. By following that line of logic, by embracing the rules and functions of the story and the overall narrative themes as well as the statement that we will see an end to the story between the two primals. We will embrace Zodiark and Hydalin and see both merge to reform the star in it's entirity. Not as a calamity but a true rejoining of a true world. Both primals working in unison to reform the world as a single entity. You are the warrior of light. You have brought peace across the war torn Source in the name of Hydalin. You are the warrior of darkness. You have brought hope, drive, determination and a will to live and change and grow to the apocalyptic First trapped in stasis. You will return to the source and your reflection. A man born of the Garlian Empire, a civilization built on limitless unbridled creation and invention. Founded by agents of Zodiark. Empowered by the echo, the blessing of Hydalin. A power of stasis so powerful is freezes time. Both by preserving the past but also predicting the future. You and your foe are two sides of the same coin. You are good, he is evil. But you are both light and both darkness. Elemental forces at the core of the star that although in opposition are part of an eternal blending of elements that make up the world.
I played this game since 2014 and had always skipped every dialogue of the entire MSQ, etc. I simply "didn't care about the lore" - shoot, I even skipped Stormblood entirely because I just wanted to get to the latest expansion (back in 2019). Knowing that Endwalker was around the corner, I didn't understand why everyone was losing their s%!t over the lore and felt like I really didn't know the game all too well. I am proud to say that I 'New Game Plus+' the ENTIRE MSQ (ARR -> SDW B.) this year! - And OMG it was AMAZING!! I am so glad I did it and am absolutely excited about the next expansion!! I remember going through that cutscene in Shadowbringers and as like..."WTH, I'm confused." lol This video really cleared that confusion up alot!!! Thanks!!
honestly I'm glad NG+ exists but the fact that most MMO's push a player to the end game so you're stuck on a 24/7 treadmill just for the hopes to join an end game group saddens me. I mean spending so much money and the only real content is at best 12 hours of total fight time (if each fight takes 10-15 mins with no wipes). that seems like a heavy imbalance from an economic pov.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 It really depends on why you play the game and how much you value the activities you choose to do. The nice thing I like about FFXIV compared to other MMOs is that it actually gives you options. Some people love spending months trying to clear hard content and gear up while others play the game for the glamour. I'm in the camp of people who enjoy the story, lore, and a lot of the side content like Deep Dungeons, Blue Mage, and Fishing. It feels like an entirely different game from those who dedicate their time to getting a Savage or Ultimate clear (I can respect those that try to beat hard content). I completely agree with you that some other MMOs feel impossible to play if you work a job away from the house even. There's definitely a time spent vs reward question I'd by asking myself there.
no kidding, i started playing maybe 4 months ago and spent most of that time trying to catch up to my friend who had played the till the end of a realm reborn already. I love lore but when your trying to catch up to someone else you lose a lot of information in the rush, also holy cow do they drop a lot of stuff on you along with story. The two videos so far have helped so much in understanding a lot of those things i didn't quite get the full understanding of! Sadly I've only made it to stormblood so in order to enjoy the lore and story i must click away. Will hopefully return to watch more when i finally reach Shadowbringer!
good god i needed this summary after finishing SHB last year, that mural cutscene and uberdanger did not stick at all like this. Thank you teacher jesse
Shadowbringers spoilers (and I am only about 75% of the way through Shadowbringers, so if Endwalker proves me wrong don't spoil me please - bit of a weird position to be in haha) Way I see the big astral/umbral flip in there is very coloured by a line Thancred says when Urianger explains light and dark - "That's astral darkness and umbral light, isn't it?". Light and dark and astral and umbral aren't the same two concepts given different names, but rather they're the noun and adjective form. Light and dark are the type of aether, and astral and umbral still refers to the way they behave. The same way you can have the astral elements behave in an umbral way (something like umbral wind, which is a literal weather type on some maps), you can have astral darkness and umbral light - we know such a thing as dark/light aether exists, after all. The main difference between the First and the Source is that on the Source light tends to act in its astral form and dark in its umbral form, while the first is dominated by umbral light and astral darkness. The revelation for Urianger and Thancred isn't that they have astral and umbral the wrong way around, it's that astral dark and umbral light CAN exist. My theory is that - to some extent - the dominant force in a world will tend towards acting umbrally. We know that when Ardbert's Warriors of Light were doing their thing on the First, they were seen as heroes, and the people turned on them only after the Flood, so presumably there was a time before light was seen as this awful thing. It sort of makes sense - if you're dominating somewhere, you're going to push towards keeping the status quo unchanged and thus act as a passive, umbral force. So, on the First, Light is umbral, because Light is acting to keep the world in the state it's already in. This does ascribe sentience to the forces of light and dark that I'm not sure is there, but it's a way of thinking of it.
Wasn't it mentioned in the game before that the Ice element has the highest affinity to Light, which explains why Paladin's "Holy Spirit" skill effect is shaped like an icicle? Not to mention whole deal with Shiva in Shb.
Check out the concept of Taiji, which I think is the root of the concepts behind Umbral and Astral. What's fascinating is at the apex of Absolute Stillness and Absolute Motion, you will find the opposite emerges from each. As with Periods shifting into opposite periods, so too do the metaphysical concepts shift endlessly into one another at their peaks. That's why I believe the void is actually a realm of such destructive activity, it tore itself apart and became a still space of nothingness, and beings trapped in undeath. Raging energies existing in such a hyperactive state that none of it can exist in stability as anything meaningful without tearing itself apart, mirroring the nihilist philosophy of the voidsent. As for the first, they had the 'burn' like area, devoid of meaningful activity and change, but such vast quantities of it. seeking to make all like itself. A world truly lost to the light likely would have just been a planet of unchanging white sand, full of the potential for life, but never seeing any of it actively exist. The need for all the be consumed and become one in identical stagnation despite their flaws creating meaningful differentiation is mirrored in the self-righteous philosophy of the sin-eaters. The mid point and dissemination of these forces is the material souls and lifeforce are made from. We see such souls tempered too far in one direction by an apex force wreaks catastrophic effects on them. Even elementally charged tempering can be harmful, since a soul in a neutral state is malleable enough to be pushed in any direction.
really really interesting to see after Endwalker and think about how Zodiark was actively summoned to passively stop the active end of the universe by actively keeping the aether currents flowing around the star as a sort of magnetosphere against the end of days.
.... I tend to not really deep dive lore, but man, you made this interesting and easy to digest. Also my um.... special self thought this video was about black mage stances at first and was like "why is there a 10m lore video on black mage stances......" lol. oof.
I just found this video but isn't astral = growth, umbral = stasis incorrect in lore? I guess if we go by generations, it might be correct. But by elemental effect, its incorrect. Because the reason why the first is stagnant and why in the alternate timeline the black rose calamity was light aspected is because too much light aethet stagnated the aether that comprised your soul.
I believe you actually had already hit the nail on the head with earlier descriptions of how all the elements can be described as both astral and umbral. It's further a theme of the expansion as we've always been told light is good and dark is evil, and then shadowbringers comes along and shows the light can be wielded in ways we would describe as evil. We also get to learn about Zodiark and under stand that it isn't an evil got of destruction, but a savior of a lost people, as Hydaelyn is the savior of a new people. Ascians see Hydaelyn as a villian trying to forsake the people who sacrificed themselves for her salvation. While on the other hand, we had previously viewed the Ascians as trying to bring about needless destruction for what seemed like its own sake. To conclude, I don't think what we knew turned out to be wrong, but more we better understand a whole rather than just the half. Instead of seeing Astral and Umbral as definitively dark and light with the elements aligning, we se it as dark and light are base elements with the other six being complex elements, with Umbral and Astral being like negative and positive polarity of each element.
now that we have more details, I'd love to see these videos return and give us a breakdown about the twelve, the world unsundered and hydalyn/zodiark's creation.
Sprout here, FF14 has to be the most engaging, story driven and addictive MMORPG that I have ever played. Granted I am only on a Free Trial at the moment, I have to say, that I have never wanted to buy the full version of a game more than since playing this! The lore is so interesting, the characters and gameplay are engaging. I cannot wait to see where this game goes.
And I just tweeted out about how I was excited for the next vid! This was AMAZING and makes me only more interested in the story we're gonna get come Endwalker!
Great video! I have some mild disagreements but you definitely added a new perspective that I had not considered, which is always valuable. Keeping enough padding to hopefully not spoil anyone! I really like the color theory idea. To invent some terms, aether as "projection" (addative color) vs aether as "essence" (subtractive color). That s a useful tool in the toolbox. I still disagree on associating Astral with "active" and Umbral with "passive." I think the core of the Source's theory is _growth vs decay,_ while the core of the First's theory is passive vs active--and that both ideas have always been true in both places, they've just been so caught up on their way of doing things that they failed to consider other ways. The most important aspect of this is that Light and Dark can each then be *combined* with Astral and Umbral! That gives you Astral Light (passive growth), Astral Darkness (active growth), Umbral Light (passive decay), and Umbral Darkness (active decay). Vauthry and the Sin Eaters represent Umbral Light, consumptive but unproductive, encouraging sloth and despair. The Voidsent represent Umbral Darkness, consumptive and possessive, encouraging wickedness and creating undead monstrosities. Dalamud's fall and Bahamut's rage were Astral Darkness: wild, unconstrained power pulled from the land and exploded, which Louisoix was able to mitigate and *partially* return to the world, thus keeping it from total devastation as would normally happen in a calamity (but it was still pretty bad). Astral Light, passive growth, doesn't have a good representation in a calamity, but there's an easy analogy: *cancer,* out-of-control passive growth that spreads and spreads until it can't be supported. But, super importantly, all of these bad things are the polarities _out of balance._ Everything, every element in every polarity, has a place, a purpose, a function. Active decay is how you clear away stuff that's broken or dangerous so that something new can grow in its place. Passive growth is how almost all progress happens, and how plants and nature fill in voids left behind by destruction. Active growth is how we set about building new things, and how the world changes over time. Passive decay is erosion, but it's also winter's thaw and the changing of the leaves in autumn. Without all four working in concert, bad things happen.
the inclusion of color theory with the astral/umbral connection and using it as an explanation is so cool, i never even thought of that!!! love your videos!
So, to put it simply, Astral=Active=Darkness and Umbral=Passive=Light. The Elements Wind, Lightning, and Fire are closest to Astral, and Water, Ice, and Earth are closest to Umbral.
Really love the explanation about colors in regards to light vs. pigments. Until recently, I had no idea about the entire pigment half of it, and so that explanation from Urianger always confused me. Another interesting thing about astral/umbral elements that I don't remember actually seeing mentioned anywhere in-game is that Eorzean religion holds that there are 7 astral heavens and 7 umbral hells. In other words, one for each element (and who goes to which one depends on what their biggest sin/virtue was), along with an astral heaven for the greatest of heroes and saints, and an umbral hell for the absolute worst villains. The only place I saw this mentioned was in Encyclopedia Eorzea (the first lore book).
I deeply appreciate your videos for FF14. I've been trying to find lore-related content for ages and yes there are some but not as in-depth and as detailed as yours. I hope you do more as I would surely keep on coming back to know more about the game we love and live in.
When you mentioned light and dark and their designation of either umbral or astral being a matter of perspective, it's interesting to note that Cylva, whose world was flooded with Darkness (a world where the power of Light was too feeble for a WoL like her to wield), uses the nomenclature of astral light and umbral dark when talking about Gaia. She also still uses that term when she is on the First.
I greatly enjoy your videos, but I have to point out an issue with this one. You mark the top 3 elements of the circles as astral and the bottom 3 as umbral, but that's incorrect. The triangles at 0:46, white and black, show which elements are aligned to what. Lightning is umbral, ice is astral. This was also referenced in the Eden's verse: Refulgence pre-cutscene, where a character explains ice is deeply linked to statis and the astral/light.
Where the point of perspective became apparent to me was the designation of Astral and Umbral Eras. Because think of what happens when a calamity strikes and an "Umbral" Era (the "Dark" age) begins - it is a time of great upheaval and change. In short: Activity Conversely to that an "Astral" Era (the "Bright"/"Golden" age) is a time of calm, stability, even tranquility at times. Or...: Passivity
This whole Light X Shadow in final fantasy 14, as a WoW player made me think its very simple In 'evil VS dark' and boi was I wrong. Imean you cant picture the writers of WoW able to write this kinda grey stuff in Wow because they're literally trying to portrait Shadow/Void as EVUL, and Light as GOOD. Even though since Legion they're trying to flip that on their head, realizing they made a huge writing blunder, as It doesn't matter what magic you use, but how you wield it and with what purpose. It's that kinda realization that made me even more inspired to do writing myself, more than before. And its videos like yours, Jesse, as my Internet Teacher since Cataclysm Beta, that inspired me to keep learning more history in general, game history and how they create their universes and magic systems etc. I love you man.
Well done video, I especially appreciate the last section! I do want to bring up that technically speaking while the _connotation_ of Light and Darkness exist in the terms "Astral" and "Umbral," they are never identified as such. They exist as polarities to which aether is drawn - active and passive states - which is why all elements can be found in either alignment. When asked about it around the time of Heavensward, Koji was careful to say that astral and umbral are not the same as Light and Darkness, respectively. Rather, it was said that active effects derived from the "astral heavens above" and passive ones from the "umbral depths below." This is also why the elements associated with activity tend to be the less "tangible" ones - wind, fire, lightning compared to water, earth, and ice. Lightning is at the top of the wheel because it is the element most associated with flux, and Ice at the bottom as the element most associated with stasis. SPOILERS BELOW SHADOWBRINGERS SPOILERS The revelation that astral corresponds to Darkness and umbral corresponds to Light is the first time that the two are directly connected to one another in the lore, and it serves as both an explanation for where Light and Darkness fit into the established cosmology and a way to make sense of the inconsistencies one would notice if they tried to attach Light to activity or Darkness to passivity earlier in the story. Though this retcon (that is what it is, it's just a VERY well-integrated one), voidsent and their chaotic ways are recontextualized as being highly astrally-charged. Alexander and its holy imagery and ability to stop time are then expressions of passivity, umbrally-charged. White mages of Amdapor are associated with warding and healing, black mages and voidmages of Mhach with destruction and voidsent summoning. The dramatic destruction of the Seventh Umbral Calamity - said even back in Heavensward to be all elements in astral alignment - becomes a Calamity of Darkness befitting the black wyrm of the Calamity, the Elder Primal Bahamut. Even small things like Shiva, whose summoner Ysayle was one of Hydaelyn's chosen, favored the element of ice, the element closest to stasis. But the most interesting thing about this is how you might recontextualize Hydaelyn and Zodiark themselves. If passivity derives from the "umbral depths below" then it seems appropriate that the will of Light exists within the core of the planet. If activity derives from the "astral heavens above" then it's appropriate that the will of Darkness exists sealed within the moon. Obviously, as they're primals, this is coincidental, but fits all the same.
The rabbit hole goes even deeper when you start to associate the colors of light blue and white with Light and violet and black with Darkness and apply it to crystals seen in the World of Darkness or the Aery, the crystal core of Alexander that resembles a miniature Hydaelyn, and so on.
Your last bit there makes quite a bit of sense especially when you take the name of the Planet into consideration, makes me wonder if the moon(not Dalamud) ever had a name at some point.
@@BurninCrus The moon is known to Eorzeans as Menphina, same as the goddess who represents it (though it's not commonly used, most people just say "moon"). It's actually questionable if there even was a moon before the sundering.
... I'll say more bellow I firmly believe that the answer to whos model is right, is a very simple, both and neither. Astral is prefect change and changelessness, Umbral is perfect changelessness and change. Astral is absolute good, and evil, And umbral is the same. They are deep primordial concepts, ineffable, absolute. Later concepts, good and evil, light and dark, change and stasis, just orbit around them. It is quite clear how models can have astral be the violent one though. Think on all the element examples listed for astral, and you find a big list of natural disasters.
I had theories... then I saw the after credits scene of Shadowbringers' After Story.... Now I am simply confused and anxiously awaiting Endwalker again...
It absolutely is. Additive and Subtractive pallettes are just Astral and Umbral magic modes by another name. PCTs are just illiterates who can't figure out proper BLM magical theory and have to eat paint instead. ;)
The first's view makes a lot of sense for them cuz that wall of light in Amh Araeng looks like a giant frozen glacier, and everything behind it is dead and empty.
The biggest mistake that ANYONE can make when thinking of 'astral' and 'umbral' is to assign them the qualities of 'good' and 'evil'. They are ORDER and CHAOS. There is no moral judgement to them - they are natural forces! SPOILER WARNING Hydaelyn is a force embodying order, which can either 'justice', or 'oppression', but Hydaelyn herself, as a result of the wishes and beliefs of those who created her, is good. She is Light, Umbral, the status quo and order, but she is the GOOD aspects of that. Likewise, Zodiark is the evil, or at least negative elements of change and chaos. The primals are more than just the forces they command - they are influenced by the beliefs and desires of those who summon them.
From the readable tome "Essences & Permutations" found in The Great Gubal Library. "Chapter 1 - The Six Nativities & Myriad Creation. The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born. The heat of Fire renders to ash all that it touches, and thus Earth is born. The density of Earth shuns sun and harbors cold, and thus Ice is born. The armor of ice melts away, and thus Water is born. The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born. The gusts and sighs of Winds gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born. Chapter 2 - The Three Conquests, Boundless and Unwavering. Earth grounds Lightning. Water erodes Earth. Lightning boils Water. Chapter 3 - The Three Submissions, Timeless and Unending. Fire is extinguished by Wind. Ice is melted by Fire. Wind is obstructed by Ice."
The whole Astral and Umbral split doesn't make much sense, but you accurately pointed out that each element could be both. Still trying to figure out myself how does light/dark plays into each element.
I'd look at it from the point of view of light and reflection. White light contains all, yet something that is white reflect all and absorbs none. Black is lack of light, yet something that is perceived as black is something that has absorbed all colors and reflects none.
~SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER~ ~STOP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED~ Regarding Zodiark vs Hydaelyn: their Astral vs Umbral alignment doesn't really matter in terms of the greater story because - just like all super beings we've encountered before them - they're not actually gods. They're Primals, nothing more than facsimiles of divine beings bound to the overarching will of those that summoned them. In terms of "which one is actually the good guy?" It's Hydaelyn. While Shadowbringers gave us a great deal of understanding about the Ascian's motives and even made a good case for feeling sympathetic towards them, the fact remains that the Ascian's goal is to use the power of their primal (Zodiark) to consume all life in the world and use the power from doing so to resurrect the Ascian race. Hydaelyn was summoned specifically to stop Zodiark. The Ascians that "serve" Zodiark are the ones that view all other races as being inferior and thus not worthy of remaining alive. To them the races of the world are nothing but fuel to feed their god so that their race can be brought back. The Ascians that summoned Hydaelyn were the ones that believe that the new, young races popping up on the renewed world deserve a chance to live and flourish. They accepted that the Age of Ascians was over and it was time for them to go. So it comes down to one primal that was summoned specifically to consume all the "lesser" races vs a primal that was summoned specifically to protect all the "lesser" races from the other primal. Hydaelyn's still the good guy here. :P
SPOILERS for ShB Zodiark (and the ascians by association) wish to return the world to how it used to be, to be bring about absolute CHANGE to the world. Hydalyn (and the warriors of light) work maintain the balance of the world as it is now, a STAGNANT world trajectory. However, if the ascians do succeed, they will bring about an era where only them and devices exist in a "utopia" of their making, STAGNANT. Where as if Hydalyn exists, the younger races will continue to grow and flourish as they have always done and CHANGE the world. In summary, we shouldn't put light and dark on a pedestal, just like the other elements, there is umbral and astral light AND dark (as ShB has shown us) and to decide where WE stand, you should look at the end goal, ascians want an eternal paradise, we (the scions) want to grow and change the world for the better. P.S If you read you this Jesse, I love your stuff, keep it!
Holy shit this video is amazing. I usually find it hard to pay attention and grasp stuff, but you broke it down like I'm 5. I love that. Thank you so much.
This is also why you don't get any traditional Astral/Umbral spells in Shadowbringers, as a WHM you get stuff like Dia and Glare which are actual light spells, And Xenoglossy as BLM.
It’s fun coming back to this with current knowledge of the lore in FF14. Based on what we know after ShB and EW, we learn that the Umbral polarity is connected to light, or stagnancy, and the Astral polarity is connected to darkness, or activity. So essentially, your explanations are reversed. *However* when you describe the different elements, you accidentally stumble on the correct descriptions. For example, when describing water, you link the astral with a tidal wave (dark/active) and the Umbral with a stagnant pond (light/passive). This becomes much more clear after EW, but the main point we discover during Urianger’s lecture in ShB is that everything we assumed about the light/dark poles in Etheirys is backwards, and the lore builds from there. Hope that helps ^^
Mind = BLOWN. I'm a happy little sprout that don't mind spoilers and this was a WILD ride :D Thanks for making these, they are wonderful for a new player ^^
Assuming Hythlodaeus’ account of the creation of Zodiark and Hydaelyn is accurate, I think it’s pretty clear which is which. Zodiark rejuvenated the land and brought back other living species, which would make him astral and darkness. That doesn’t necessarily make him “Good,”though… he was essentially conceived as a tool for jumpstarting life. Reversing the damage done by the Final Days? Good. Bringing back all the dead Ascians through the sacrifice of other life? Not so much. Hydaelyn’s purpose and power, by contrast, was to weaken Zodiark, and to split things apart so that they’re diminished in all respect, making her umbral and light. She was also created to be a tool, specifically to prevent any further sacrifices to Zodiark. While that’s unambiguously a good thing given what’s necessary for Rejoining, the “goodness” of Hydaelyn should really be attributed to her creators, not to Hydaelyn herself.
Babylon V used this model of Light = Stasis and Dark = Change. I find it fascinating because sometime the good guys fight FOR order (like against a horde of evil demons swarming all over the place), but oftentimes good guys struggle AGAINST order (like a band of freedom fighters taking on a fascist government). So would you really say Robin Hood striking in the dead of night against the Sheriff's men is acting on the side of the "Light?" Probably not. But it still feels strange in our Christian influenced world to acknowledge that we are often served by Warriors of Darkness.
Hello! I am a sprout! I am a sprout who actually really likes spoilers. So I stayed. This was awesome. Using the colour theory analogy was MASSIVELY helpful for me, too. Imma watch all of these now!
I think a better way to look at Zodiark and Hydaelyn is by examining what they've actually done as far as we know. *SHADOWBRINGERS SPOILERS AHEAD, BE WARNED* Zodiark was able to 'fix' the world after the Final Days, but it first had to consume a tremendous amount of aether to power its abilities (half of the Ascians had to be sacrificed to undo the damage, and then half of what was left to restore life). In essence, it had to destroy in order to recreate the world. Conversely, Hydaelyn took what was already in existence and split it, sundering Zodiark to protect what life existed but also splitting that life into multiple weaker shards. It created as a byproduct of 'destroying' Zodiark. Really, both of them can be seen as umbral AND astral; it's just a matter of which one is the active agent of the two, so to speak, and which is the result. Darkness both consumes and creates, light both protects and destroys. Aetherology is such a fascinating topic for us lore nerds, because it's a lot like chemistry - each element has its own properties, but is defined largely by the effect it has on other elements.
In my head cannon, Light and Darkness also isn't forced to be Astral or Umbral. As in, you can have Astral Light and also Umbral Light. And Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Light and Dark aligned. Usually the side that is trying to break the status quo is Astral aligned. So during the Ancient times, when Hydaelyn is trying to split the word, she is super Astral aligned, and Zodiark is Umbral. Now days, Hydaelyn becomes more and more passive, and just Umbarlly sits there, where Zodiark... I'm pretty sure Zodiark is still dead and not in the mood of existence lol
I dont like the seperation of Astral and Umbral by change->stasis Like, you can have roaring waters and calm fires. I must destroy the Astral Umbral Balance
Can't imagine what a [ShB Spoilers below] . . . . . . . . . . . . . lunar eclipse portrays later on (as seen on the revealed title screen); Must be something special when the literal theme of Endwalker will be Solar and Lunar (and possibly a 3rd polarity, maybe neutral?)
Want to learn more?
FFXIV Pre-History Lore - ruclips.net/video/GaQ__5ZBwBc/видео.html
FFXIV 1.0 Lore - ruclips.net/video/iEoaGT-yDig/видео.html
Your light and pigment analogy was really spot on for explaining the differences between how the Source and the First view Astral and Umbral. Really enjoyed this episode!
There is the thirdteen. The fact that we have less info on the 9 other shards are likely explained somewhere in the future
@@dale7326 Quite possibly. Right now we only know what's happening in two of the shards; the First, and the Thirteenth. 7 others have been rejoined to the source (destroyed), leaving only 4 others unaccounted for. There is some wild speculation that FF16 might take place on one of the Shards, due to thematic similarities with 14, but that also just might just be the result of the creatives exploring ideas that they weren't able to integrate into 14 in an unrelated story.
Yep, it works out great.
I'm a little confused, for Astral energies why did you use terminologies that would be categorized as tragedies? Then Umbrel, why connect it too an item used on a day too day basis?
@@craigmitivier637 I believe it's due to the active/passive natures of those scenarios.
Something like a tidal wave is visceral, it can, and likely will create change.
A small pond would be stagnant, and likely unchanging, therefore being passive.
One thing we have to consider with the behaviours of Voidsent and Sin Eaters. Voidsent are active, chaotic and always on the move. They possess more personality, ambition and aggression, actively betraying each other and manipulating others for their own gain. They talk, boast, taunt others, hold people hostage and a myriad of other acts. They behave like individuals, morally corrupt individuals with no inhibition or self control.
Sin Eaters operate more like a hive. They gather around the largest of their kind, who are content to sit in some hole and just gouge on aether, occasionally sweeping through some village to do so. They don't act with a sense of individualism, and behave very much like drones in a hive mind. They don't talk, or do anything, other than act on an instinct of feeding. They possess no free will, they have no personality or ambition.
So Chaos and Order taken to their respective extremes.
Huh.
I feel like this comment should be pinned; it's such good insight. :)
@@FiendMatadorSlayerOfNoobs This is starting to feel very similar to the plot of FFDissidia
You could also argue that the Source's warriors of LIGHT are trying their best to preserve the status quo (Hydaelyn's preservation, countering the Dark and it's minions), hence causing a sort of stasis where as those pushing the agenda of the Dark seek change, even if it's not in everyone's best interests.
And fun fact, our Party system works like a hive that rushes in to defeat and consume Primals, aka living Aether.
I hope this blossoms into a passion for FFXIV lore videos because these have been a pleasure to watch.
There's an interesting line when you beat Leviathan - he will say something to the effect of "My waters are stilled... is this the power of the Light?" DEFINITELY something to consider...
I mean...not really. He's just saying "Crap, I was beaten. Light's champion sure is buff."
I think you're reading too much into it.
@@Raxen95 That's literally our job is to look into stuff like this lmao
I like this. I seem to recall other primals having set up lines for later revelations aswell
@@Raxen95 not necessarily. This game has lots of story threads that pay off many expansions after they're introduced.
Something worth mentioning about Umbral electric/Fire is that we do see Umbral electricity in The churning mists, which has a weather called Umbral static. In addition, background lore officially states that Ul’dah is aspected towards Fire all the time, but it’s Umbral which causes a giant desert.
I cannot believe that I, for the first 30 seconds of this video, was like "hmm, where have I heard this background music from before?" only to then realize, "oh right, FF14... go figure"
Wonderfully edited and informative video Jesse, just as before! There is one thing I'd mention too though: How some areas have different amounts of aspected aether. Like Coerthas has a lot of astral ice aether so is cold and snowy, while Thanalan has a lot of umbral fire aether so is dry and hot.
I'm so happy to see your passion for this game grow into such a well put together and important series to the game. Keep going! I'm so proud of you and everyone involved.
Such a good rundown! Look forward to watching past the spoiler warning someday!!!!!
Once you hit the level 74 quests, it is safe to watch 👍🏻
So... Did y'all ever revisit these videos?
only Jesse could get me to watch a side lesson to the lore of a game I don't play
Have you given the free trial a shot?
@@Skyblade12 You mean the free trial to the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, which includes the entirety of A Realm Reborn AND the award-winning Heavensward expansion up to lvl60 with no restrictions on playtime? I heard you can sign up, and enjoy Eorzea today!
What I find interesting is that Hydaelyn and Zodiark represent our understanding of Astral and Umbral perfectly, as well. Hydaelyn actively chooses champions to further her cause and even speaks and appears before people. Zodiark, however, has never been seen nor heard in the entirety of FFXIV. We've seen a dark crystal, yes, but never Zodiark himself.
But that doesn't mean they fully encompass what we believe to be Astral and Umbral. Just as Hydaelyn has her Warriors of Light, so too does Zodiark have the Ascians. Darkness overtook The Thirteenth, but Light nearly stole The First.
And people are all so quick to turn on Hydaelyn and call her evil because of what happened on The First, but what really happened there? Ascians caused the flood of light. Who stopped the flood of light? Hydaelyn. Hydaelyn sacrificed a massive amount of her power to halt the flood and even gave up her only way of speaking, namely Minfillia, to help us in our fight.
I don't think Hydaelyn or Zodiark is evil. I think they're balanced and are both capable of active and passive interaction with the world.
One thing I would say is that, interestingly. Hydaelyn and Zodiark also perfectly represent the First’s understanding of ‘Light’ and ‘Dark’ as well. Zodiark and his followers’ goals are to actively cause the Calamities to cause the Rejoining. They encourage the summoning of Primals which actively absorb in the surrounding Aether.
Meanwhile, Hydaelyn’s whole purpose is to keep Zodiark in check - in stasis, essentially. The goals of the ‘Warrior of Light’ is to bring about peace and stability a to make the world more passive.
It’s one of the great bit of storytelling in the game that the concepts of Astral Dark and Umbral Light work even on the characters associated with them.
Or both Hydaelyn and Zodiark can be both Astral and Umbral like any other elements depending on the circumstances. In a way they mirror each other. LoL
This comment needs more likes because it do be spitting facts.
Interesting thought! Maybe the Source's views on "Light/Active/Astral" vs. "Dark/Passive/Umbral" might purely be a result of Hydaelyn being active and Zodiark being imprisoned there, while the first is more about the way pre-sundering Zodiark consumed life for actions, vs Hydaelyn putting a stop to that.
It's a bit more then what happened to the first if you know who actually caused the sundering
And he did it all without a single "thou" or "must needs". Urianger better watch out.
For real, when Urianger talks to much i'm forced to skip because i fucking lose my mind (i'm spanish and for me it's hard enough to pay attention to this extense narrative in a different lenguage)
@@xanxv1246 it always amazes me how there isn't a spanish translation of this game, we have french and german, no direspect to those of course, but spanish is MUCH more widely spoken
@@wolfspledge1762 yeah... sadly this happens with barely all Square Enix games, there is a lot of games that for some reason don't support spanish, i find that if FFXIV had a spanish traduction (not even voice, just game text) they would have tons of players, both Southamerica and Spain would play this game way more
My personal thoughts for the ending question are that whether order/stagnation and chaos/change are good or bad is a matter of perspective based on one's position. If you're in the middle of a thriving civilization that thinks itself Hydaelyn's gift to Eorzea, then of course you'd want to keep that around, even as the luster starts to fade. On the opposite end, if you've lost everything in a calamity and are struggling to pick up the pieces, then of course you'd take any change you can get, because even danger would be better than having absolutely nothing. This even ties into how the eras cycle between prosperity and calamity, with each era having its own problems and highlights.
This is a nice refresher while playing Shadowbringers
knowing jesse was a history teacher makes these videos even better, everything just makes sense when he explains it
You could give aetherologists a run for their money with this video. It’s that good.
This is actually a super helpful video that makes these concepts very clear. You did an amazing job with this
Dude I thought you would be doing more? These are so good.
I love teacher Jesse's energy, it helped me reinforce things I already knew from the game but also gave me a new perspective to look at it--like I didn't think about how the graph was structured. Props to Dan for adding that old ass Classroom TV and vhs player for presentations
Jesse: "Now it would be a good time to go (to avoid spoilers)."
Me: "Darn, welp back to Heavensward! Until next time."
The issue here is that you constantly looking at everything as good/evil light/dark. Embrace the analogy. Embrace the themes. Hydaline is by definition stasis. She binds Zodiark. She bring peace to the storm. She brings passivity. Which allows enough peace for growth to take place. If there is too much peace than you get Eulmore. Too much stasis and there is no drive to move forward, too much peace.
Zodiak is change. He is chaos. He is not evil. The very concept of the warrior of light as spawned by Elidibus as Zodiarks core is the driving factor of Zodiak. He was summoned to save the star. He is the star's will made manifest by beings of change. The original Ascians are beings of change. They could create on a whim. the world a canvas to their mind's brush. Each one capable of creating life and bending reality. And they were not evil.
They summon Zodiak as the penultimate expression of their outlook on the universe. The ultimate change. The ultimate driving force to CREATE and REFORGE the rules of the universe that were breaking down. To save the word. And he did. But he is a storm. He is change eternal. Which is why he had to be bound. He had the power to forge a new future and he did, but he didn't stop.
Hydalin was summoned to restrain him. She was to bring order to the chaos of his unbridled creation. Not as an act of evil or destruction. But again to save the star. To restrain but not destroy. To calm but not pacify.
Both primals want to save the world. Both powers are neither inherently good or inherently bad. Both can bring cataclysmic destruction. Both are one half of the will of the star. By following that line of logic, by embracing the rules and functions of the story and the overall narrative themes as well as the statement that we will see an end to the story between the two primals. We will embrace Zodiark and Hydalin and see both merge to reform the star in it's entirity. Not as a calamity but a true rejoining of a true world. Both primals working in unison to reform the world as a single entity.
You are the warrior of light. You have brought peace across the war torn Source in the name of Hydalin. You are the warrior of darkness. You have brought hope, drive, determination and a will to live and change and grow to the apocalyptic First trapped in stasis. You will return to the source and your reflection. A man born of the Garlian Empire, a civilization built on limitless unbridled creation and invention. Founded by agents of Zodiark. Empowered by the echo, the blessing of Hydalin. A power of stasis so powerful is freezes time. Both by preserving the past but also predicting the future.
You and your foe are two sides of the same coin. You are good, he is evil. But you are both light and both darkness. Elemental forces at the core of the star that although in opposition are part of an eternal blending of elements that make up the world.
This right here is awesome!
RIP series?
I played this game since 2014 and had always skipped every dialogue of the entire MSQ, etc. I simply "didn't care about the lore" - shoot, I even skipped Stormblood entirely because I just wanted to get to the latest expansion (back in 2019). Knowing that Endwalker was around the corner, I didn't understand why everyone was losing their s%!t over the lore and felt like I really didn't know the game all too well. I am proud to say that I 'New Game Plus+' the ENTIRE MSQ (ARR -> SDW B.) this year! - And OMG it was AMAZING!! I am so glad I did it and am absolutely excited about the next expansion!!
I remember going through that cutscene in Shadowbringers and as like..."WTH, I'm confused." lol This video really cleared that confusion up alot!!! Thanks!!
honestly I'm glad NG+ exists but the fact that most MMO's push a player to the end game so you're stuck on a 24/7 treadmill just for the hopes to join an end game group saddens me.
I mean spending so much money and the only real content is at best 12 hours of total fight time (if each fight takes 10-15 mins with no wipes). that seems like a heavy imbalance from an economic pov.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 It really depends on why you play the game and how much you value the activities you choose to do. The nice thing I like about FFXIV compared to other MMOs is that it actually gives you options. Some people love spending months trying to clear hard content and gear up while others play the game for the glamour. I'm in the camp of people who enjoy the story, lore, and a lot of the side content like Deep Dungeons, Blue Mage, and Fishing. It feels like an entirely different game from those who dedicate their time to getting a Savage or Ultimate clear (I can respect those that try to beat hard content). I completely agree with you that some other MMOs feel impossible to play if you work a job away from the house even. There's definitely a time spent vs reward question I'd by asking myself there.
Wow this was even more interesting and mindblowing than I was expecting, amazing job! The Shadowbringers portion got me thinking like crazy
Jessys last musings somehow reminded me of Ardberts last words in Heavensward. "Light ... Dark.. it doesn't matter.. what matters is how you use it.!
I wonder if you'll update this at some point now that not only Endwalker, but Dawntrail as well, have released.
As someone who just got into FFXIV in the last month(s), I'm so happy to be able to explore the lore better with a fantastic voice. :)
no kidding, i started playing maybe 4 months ago and spent most of that time trying to catch up to my friend who had played the till the end of a realm reborn already. I love lore but when your trying to catch up to someone else you lose a lot of information in the rush, also holy cow do they drop a lot of stuff on you along with story. The two videos so far have helped so much in understanding a lot of those things i didn't quite get the full understanding of! Sadly I've only made it to stormblood so in order to enjoy the lore and story i must click away. Will hopefully return to watch more when i finally reach Shadowbringer!
I really enjoyed this and the Hydaelyn Lore vid!!! Any chance you'll still do parts 2 and 3 in the series...?
Bless you Jesse. I can't wait for more FFXIV lore videos. You nail everything on those videos!!
I am still waiting for the next videos
So... Light vs Darkness is RGB vs CMYK...
good god i needed this summary after finishing SHB last year, that mural cutscene and uberdanger did not stick at all like this. Thank you teacher jesse
Shadowbringers spoilers
(and I am only about 75% of the way through Shadowbringers, so if Endwalker proves me wrong don't spoil me please - bit of a weird position to be in haha)
Way I see the big astral/umbral flip in there is very coloured by a line Thancred says when Urianger explains light and dark - "That's astral darkness and umbral light, isn't it?". Light and dark and astral and umbral aren't the same two concepts given different names, but rather they're the noun and adjective form. Light and dark are the type of aether, and astral and umbral still refers to the way they behave. The same way you can have the astral elements behave in an umbral way (something like umbral wind, which is a literal weather type on some maps), you can have astral darkness and umbral light - we know such a thing as dark/light aether exists, after all. The main difference between the First and the Source is that on the Source light tends to act in its astral form and dark in its umbral form, while the first is dominated by umbral light and astral darkness. The revelation for Urianger and Thancred isn't that they have astral and umbral the wrong way around, it's that astral dark and umbral light CAN exist.
My theory is that - to some extent - the dominant force in a world will tend towards acting umbrally. We know that when Ardbert's Warriors of Light were doing their thing on the First, they were seen as heroes, and the people turned on them only after the Flood, so presumably there was a time before light was seen as this awful thing. It sort of makes sense - if you're dominating somewhere, you're going to push towards keeping the status quo unchanged and thus act as a passive, umbral force. So, on the First, Light is umbral, because Light is acting to keep the world in the state it's already in. This does ascribe sentience to the forces of light and dark that I'm not sure is there, but it's a way of thinking of it.
Wasn't it mentioned in the game before that the Ice element has the highest affinity to Light, which explains why Paladin's "Holy Spirit" skill effect is shaped like an icicle? Not to mention whole deal with Shiva in Shb.
Which would mean that it's opposite (Lightning) is closest to Darkness.
Ice being closest to Light was mentioned during the Shiva arc of the Eden story.
Check out the concept of Taiji, which I think is the root of the concepts behind Umbral and Astral. What's fascinating is at the apex of Absolute Stillness and Absolute Motion, you will find the opposite emerges from each.
As with Periods shifting into opposite periods, so too do the metaphysical concepts shift endlessly into one another at their peaks. That's why I believe the void is actually a realm of such destructive activity, it tore itself apart and became a still space of nothingness, and beings trapped in undeath. Raging energies existing in such a hyperactive state that none of it can exist in stability as anything meaningful without tearing itself apart, mirroring the nihilist philosophy of the voidsent.
As for the first, they had the 'burn' like area, devoid of meaningful activity and change, but such vast quantities of it. seeking to make all like itself. A world truly lost to the light likely would have just been a planet of unchanging white sand, full of the potential for life, but never seeing any of it actively exist. The need for all the be consumed and become one in identical stagnation despite their flaws creating meaningful differentiation is mirrored in the self-righteous philosophy of the sin-eaters.
The mid point and dissemination of these forces is the material souls and lifeforce are made from. We see such souls tempered too far in one direction by an apex force wreaks catastrophic effects on them. Even elementally charged tempering can be harmful, since a soul in a neutral state is malleable enough to be pushed in any direction.
Still waiting for more of these videos!
really really interesting to see after Endwalker and think about how Zodiark was actively summoned to passively stop the active end of the universe by actively keeping the aether currents flowing around the star as a sort of magnetosphere against the end of days.
.... I tend to not really deep dive lore, but man, you made this interesting and easy to digest.
Also my um.... special self thought this video was about black mage stances at first and was like "why is there a 10m lore video on black mage stances......" lol. oof.
Dude, keep this going. Cover everything! This is great. I love your energy and passion so far and honestly, I can't wait to see more!
I just found this video but isn't astral = growth, umbral = stasis incorrect in lore?
I guess if we go by generations, it might be correct.
But by elemental effect, its incorrect.
Because the reason why the first is stagnant and why in the alternate timeline the black rose calamity was light aspected is because too much light aethet stagnated the aether that comprised your soul.
I believe you actually had already hit the nail on the head with earlier descriptions of how all the elements can be described as both astral and umbral. It's further a theme of the expansion as we've always been told light is good and dark is evil, and then shadowbringers comes along and shows the light can be wielded in ways we would describe as evil. We also get to learn about Zodiark and under stand that it isn't an evil got of destruction, but a savior of a lost people, as Hydaelyn is the savior of a new people. Ascians see Hydaelyn as a villian trying to forsake the people who sacrificed themselves for her salvation. While on the other hand, we had previously viewed the Ascians as trying to bring about needless destruction for what seemed like its own sake. To conclude, I don't think what we knew turned out to be wrong, but more we better understand a whole rather than just the half. Instead of seeing Astral and Umbral as definitively dark and light with the elements aligning, we se it as dark and light are base elements with the other six being complex elements, with Umbral and Astral being like negative and positive polarity of each element.
now that we have more details, I'd love to see these videos return and give us a breakdown about the twelve, the world unsundered and hydalyn/zodiark's creation.
Sprout here, FF14 has to be the most engaging, story driven and addictive MMORPG that I have ever played. Granted I am only on a Free Trial at the moment, I have to say, that I have never wanted to buy the full version of a game more than since playing this! The lore is so interesting, the characters and gameplay are engaging. I cannot wait to see where this game goes.
1:17 Kudos to the animator who made the burning planet/star be the FFXIV Meteor Logo thingy. Brilliant!
And I just tweeted out about how I was excited for the next vid! This was AMAZING and makes me only more interested in the story we're gonna get come Endwalker!
Did the 1.0 vid ever drop?
IDIOT, Astral makes me Fire spells stronger and Umbral regens my MP, duh.
(Great video Cox)
Destructive astral, and generative umbral.
Great video! I have some mild disagreements but you definitely added a new perspective that I had not considered, which is always valuable.
Keeping enough padding to hopefully not spoil anyone!
I really like the color theory idea. To invent some terms, aether as "projection" (addative color) vs aether as "essence" (subtractive color). That s a useful tool in the toolbox.
I still disagree on associating Astral with "active" and Umbral with "passive." I think the core of the Source's theory is _growth vs decay,_ while the core of the First's theory is passive vs active--and that both ideas have always been true in both places, they've just been so caught up on their way of doing things that they failed to consider other ways.
The most important aspect of this is that Light and Dark can each then be *combined* with Astral and Umbral! That gives you Astral Light (passive growth), Astral Darkness (active growth), Umbral Light (passive decay), and Umbral Darkness (active decay).
Vauthry and the Sin Eaters represent Umbral Light, consumptive but unproductive, encouraging sloth and despair. The Voidsent represent Umbral Darkness, consumptive and possessive, encouraging wickedness and creating undead monstrosities. Dalamud's fall and Bahamut's rage were Astral Darkness: wild, unconstrained power pulled from the land and exploded, which Louisoix was able to mitigate and *partially* return to the world, thus keeping it from total devastation as would normally happen in a calamity (but it was still pretty bad). Astral Light, passive growth, doesn't have a good representation in a calamity, but there's an easy analogy: *cancer,* out-of-control passive growth that spreads and spreads until it can't be supported.
But, super importantly, all of these bad things are the polarities _out of balance._ Everything, every element in every polarity, has a place, a purpose, a function. Active decay is how you clear away stuff that's broken or dangerous so that something new can grow in its place. Passive growth is how almost all progress happens, and how plants and nature fill in voids left behind by destruction. Active growth is how we set about building new things, and how the world changes over time. Passive decay is erosion, but it's also winter's thaw and the changing of the leaves in autumn. Without all four working in concert, bad things happen.
Watching after endwalker makes it hit different.
Holy shot all of this makes sense and it's blowing my mind lol like this can even relate to real life if you deeply and truly think about it 🤯
Does anyone know if there is new lore for beginners video? I tried to find but was not able
I guess that 1.0 video never happened, hm?
And then he never made any more for some reason
the inclusion of color theory with the astral/umbral connection and using it as an explanation is so cool, i never even thought of that!!! love your videos!
PICTOMANCER PLAYERS NEED TO WATCH THE SPOILER SECTION!
I feel Jesse lived in Eureka while making this video.
Wait, isn't Ice Astral? Which was the reason of the whole E8 scenario playing as it did?
So, to put it simply, Astral=Active=Darkness and Umbral=Passive=Light. The Elements Wind, Lightning, and Fire are closest to Astral, and Water, Ice, and Earth are closest to Umbral.
The reason Ryne went out of control is because the primal took control of her. I think.
This is a really good explanation, i started this week playing the game and i gotta say i'm loving it so far.
Really love the explanation about colors in regards to light vs. pigments. Until recently, I had no idea about the entire pigment half of it, and so that explanation from Urianger always confused me.
Another interesting thing about astral/umbral elements that I don't remember actually seeing mentioned anywhere in-game is that Eorzean religion holds that there are 7 astral heavens and 7 umbral hells. In other words, one for each element (and who goes to which one depends on what their biggest sin/virtue was), along with an astral heaven for the greatest of heroes and saints, and an umbral hell for the absolute worst villains. The only place I saw this mentioned was in Encyclopedia Eorzea (the first lore book).
I'll be back after I finish shadowbringers.... mark my words!
I'm back. I took my sweet time. Thank you, again!
loving this series so much!! I just started playing and you just happened to release these videos, perfect timing
As someone who's been confused about the lore since 2.1, thank you thank you thank you. I'm eager to see more in the future
I deeply appreciate your videos for FF14. I've been trying to find lore-related content for ages and yes there are some but not as in-depth and as detailed as yours. I hope you do more as I would surely keep on coming back to know more about the game we love and live in.
What type of turn around is this!?!?!?😮
❤️⚡⭐
Fuck. I knew it. My oven is an Ascian.
When you mentioned light and dark and their designation of either umbral or astral being a matter of perspective, it's interesting to note that Cylva, whose world was flooded with Darkness (a world where the power of Light was too feeble for a WoL like her to wield), uses the nomenclature of astral light and umbral dark when talking about Gaia. She also still uses that term when she is on the First.
I greatly enjoy your videos, but I have to point out an issue with this one. You mark the top 3 elements of the circles as astral and the bottom 3 as umbral, but that's incorrect. The triangles at 0:46, white and black, show which elements are aligned to what. Lightning is umbral, ice is astral. This was also referenced in the Eden's verse: Refulgence pre-cutscene, where a character explains ice is deeply linked to statis and the astral/light.
He explains that in the latter half of the video. The first half is for newcomers. The second is for us who've already cleared Shadowbringers
Dang I'll have to watch the last 4 minutes when I'm caught up
Where the point of perspective became apparent to me was the designation of Astral and Umbral Eras.
Because think of what happens when a calamity strikes and an "Umbral" Era (the "Dark" age) begins - it is a time of great upheaval and change. In short: Activity
Conversely to that an "Astral" Era (the "Bright"/"Golden" age) is a time of calm, stability, even tranquility at times. Or...: Passivity
I Hope we get more of these. I check for them almost daily.
"My static is Astral angry at me because I may have Umbral'd multiple times."
This whole Light X Shadow in final fantasy 14, as a WoW player made me think its very simple In 'evil VS dark' and boi was I wrong. Imean you cant picture the writers of WoW able to write this kinda grey stuff in Wow because they're literally trying to portrait Shadow/Void as EVUL, and Light as GOOD. Even though since Legion they're trying to flip that on their head, realizing they made a huge writing blunder, as It doesn't matter what magic you use, but how you wield it and with what purpose.
It's that kinda realization that made me even more inspired to do writing myself, more than before. And its videos like yours, Jesse, as my Internet Teacher since Cataclysm Beta, that inspired me to keep learning more history in general, game history and how they create their universes and magic systems etc. I love you man.
Well done video, I especially appreciate the last section!
I do want to bring up that technically speaking while the _connotation_ of Light and Darkness exist in the terms "Astral" and "Umbral," they are never identified as such. They exist as polarities to which aether is drawn - active and passive states - which is why all elements can be found in either alignment. When asked about it around the time of Heavensward, Koji was careful to say that astral and umbral are not the same as Light and Darkness, respectively.
Rather, it was said that active effects derived from the "astral heavens above" and passive ones from the "umbral depths below." This is also why the elements associated with activity tend to be the less "tangible" ones - wind, fire, lightning compared to water, earth, and ice. Lightning is at the top of the wheel because it is the element most associated with flux, and Ice at the bottom as the element most associated with stasis.
SPOILERS BELOW
SHADOWBRINGERS SPOILERS
The revelation that astral corresponds to Darkness and umbral corresponds to Light is the first time that the two are directly connected to one another in the lore, and it serves as both an explanation for where Light and Darkness fit into the established cosmology and a way to make sense of the inconsistencies one would notice if they tried to attach Light to activity or Darkness to passivity earlier in the story.
Though this retcon (that is what it is, it's just a VERY well-integrated one), voidsent and their chaotic ways are recontextualized as being highly astrally-charged. Alexander and its holy imagery and ability to stop time are then expressions of passivity, umbrally-charged. White mages of Amdapor are associated with warding and healing, black mages and voidmages of Mhach with destruction and voidsent summoning.
The dramatic destruction of the Seventh Umbral Calamity - said even back in Heavensward to be all elements in astral alignment - becomes a Calamity of Darkness befitting the black wyrm of the Calamity, the Elder Primal Bahamut. Even small things like Shiva, whose summoner Ysayle was one of Hydaelyn's chosen, favored the element of ice, the element closest to stasis.
But the most interesting thing about this is how you might recontextualize Hydaelyn and Zodiark themselves. If passivity derives from the "umbral depths below" then it seems appropriate that the will of Light exists within the core of the planet. If activity derives from the "astral heavens above" then it's appropriate that the will of Darkness exists sealed within the moon. Obviously, as they're primals, this is coincidental, but fits all the same.
The rabbit hole goes even deeper when you start to associate the colors of light blue and white with Light and violet and black with Darkness and apply it to crystals seen in the World of Darkness or the Aery, the crystal core of Alexander that resembles a miniature Hydaelyn, and so on.
Your last bit there makes quite a bit of sense especially when you take the name of the Planet into consideration, makes me wonder if the moon(not Dalamud) ever had a name at some point.
@@BurninCrus The moon is known to Eorzeans as Menphina, same as the goddess who represents it (though it's not commonly used, most people just say "moon"). It's actually questionable if there even was a moon before the sundering.
... I'll say more bellow
I firmly believe that the answer to whos model is right, is a very simple, both and neither.
Astral is prefect change and changelessness, Umbral is perfect changelessness and change. Astral is absolute good, and evil, And umbral is the same. They are deep primordial concepts, ineffable, absolute. Later concepts, good and evil, light and dark, change and stasis, just orbit around them.
It is quite clear how models can have astral be the violent one though. Think on all the element examples listed for astral, and you find a big list of natural disasters.
I had theories... then I saw the after credits scene of Shadowbringers' After Story.... Now I am simply confused and anxiously awaiting Endwalker again...
For a moment, from the thumbnail, I genuinely thought this was an upload from that LORE in a minute channel.
This is wonderful! Please become the Byf of Destiny 2 for FFXIV
Jokes on you I'm a sprout and I have DRANK OF THE FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE *gets dragged away by lalafel secret police*
Also a guide to Pictomancer in theory
It absolutely is. Additive and Subtractive pallettes are just Astral and Umbral magic modes by another name. PCTs are just illiterates who can't figure out proper BLM magical theory and have to eat paint instead. ;)
The first's view makes a lot of sense for them cuz that wall of light in Amh Araeng looks like a giant frozen glacier, and everything behind it is dead and empty.
The biggest mistake that ANYONE can make when thinking of 'astral' and 'umbral' is to assign them the qualities of 'good' and 'evil'. They are ORDER and CHAOS. There is no moral judgement to them - they are natural forces!
SPOILER WARNING
Hydaelyn is a force embodying order, which can either 'justice', or 'oppression', but Hydaelyn herself, as a result of the wishes and beliefs of those who created her, is good. She is Light, Umbral, the status quo and order, but she is the GOOD aspects of that. Likewise, Zodiark is the evil, or at least negative elements of change and chaos. The primals are more than just the forces they command - they are influenced by the beliefs and desires of those who summon them.
From the readable tome "Essences & Permutations" found in The Great Gubal Library.
"Chapter 1 - The Six Nativities & Myriad Creation.
The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born.
The heat of Fire renders to ash all that it touches, and thus Earth is born.
The density of Earth shuns sun and harbors cold, and thus Ice is born.
The armor of ice melts away, and thus Water is born.
The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born.
The gusts and sighs of Winds gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born.
Chapter 2 - The Three Conquests, Boundless and Unwavering.
Earth grounds Lightning.
Water erodes Earth.
Lightning boils Water.
Chapter 3 - The Three Submissions, Timeless and Unending.
Fire is extinguished by Wind.
Ice is melted by Fire.
Wind is obstructed by Ice."
The whole Astral and Umbral split doesn't make much sense, but you accurately pointed out that each element could be both. Still trying to figure out myself how does light/dark plays into each element.
I'd look at it from the point of view of light and reflection. White light contains all, yet something that is white reflect all and absorbs none. Black is lack of light, yet something that is perceived as black is something that has absorbed all colors and reflects none.
~SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER~
~STOP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED~
Regarding Zodiark vs Hydaelyn: their Astral vs Umbral alignment doesn't really matter in terms of the greater story because - just like all super beings we've encountered before them - they're not actually gods. They're Primals, nothing more than facsimiles of divine beings bound to the overarching will of those that summoned them. In terms of "which one is actually the good guy?" It's Hydaelyn. While Shadowbringers gave us a great deal of understanding about the Ascian's motives and even made a good case for feeling sympathetic towards them, the fact remains that the Ascian's goal is to use the power of their primal (Zodiark) to consume all life in the world and use the power from doing so to resurrect the Ascian race. Hydaelyn was summoned specifically to stop Zodiark. The Ascians that "serve" Zodiark are the ones that view all other races as being inferior and thus not worthy of remaining alive. To them the races of the world are nothing but fuel to feed their god so that their race can be brought back. The Ascians that summoned Hydaelyn were the ones that believe that the new, young races popping up on the renewed world deserve a chance to live and flourish. They accepted that the Age of Ascians was over and it was time for them to go.
So it comes down to one primal that was summoned specifically to consume all the "lesser" races vs a primal that was summoned specifically to protect all the "lesser" races from the other primal. Hydaelyn's still the good guy here. :P
SPOILERS for ShB
Zodiark (and the ascians by association) wish to return the world to how it used to be, to be bring about absolute CHANGE to the world. Hydalyn (and the warriors of light) work maintain the balance of the world as it is now, a STAGNANT world trajectory.
However, if the ascians do succeed, they will bring about an era where only them and devices exist in a "utopia" of their making, STAGNANT.
Where as if Hydalyn exists, the younger races will continue to grow and flourish as they have always done and CHANGE the world.
In summary, we shouldn't put light and dark on a pedestal, just like the other elements, there is umbral and astral light AND dark (as ShB has shown us) and to decide where WE stand, you should look at the end goal, ascians want an eternal paradise, we (the scions) want to grow and change the world for the better.
P.S If you read you this Jesse, I love your stuff, keep it!
Holy shit this video is amazing. I usually find it hard to pay attention and grasp stuff, but you broke it down like I'm 5. I love that. Thank you so much.
pls do more FF14 lore series.
This is also why you don't get any traditional Astral/Umbral spells in Shadowbringers, as a WHM you get stuff like Dia and Glare which are actual light spells, And Xenoglossy as BLM.
It’s fun coming back to this with current knowledge of the lore in FF14. Based on what we know after ShB and EW, we learn that the Umbral polarity is connected to light, or stagnancy, and the Astral polarity is connected to darkness, or activity. So essentially, your explanations are reversed. *However* when you describe the different elements, you accidentally stumble on the correct descriptions. For example, when describing water, you link the astral with a tidal wave (dark/active) and the Umbral with a stagnant pond (light/passive). This becomes much more clear after EW, but the main point we discover during Urianger’s lecture in ShB is that everything we assumed about the light/dark poles in Etheirys is backwards, and the lore builds from there. Hope that helps ^^
Mind = BLOWN. I'm a happy little sprout that don't mind spoilers and this was a WILD ride :D Thanks for making these, they are wonderful for a new player ^^
I wanna see the theory about ascian please ☹
Assuming Hythlodaeus’ account of the creation of Zodiark and Hydaelyn is accurate, I think it’s pretty clear which is which.
Zodiark rejuvenated the land and brought back other living species, which would make him astral and darkness. That doesn’t necessarily make him “Good,”though… he was essentially conceived as a tool for jumpstarting life. Reversing the damage done by the Final Days? Good. Bringing back all the dead Ascians through the sacrifice of other life? Not so much.
Hydaelyn’s purpose and power, by contrast, was to weaken Zodiark, and to split things apart so that they’re diminished in all respect, making her umbral and light. She was also created to be a tool, specifically to prevent any further sacrifices to Zodiark. While that’s unambiguously a good thing given what’s necessary for Rejoining, the “goodness” of Hydaelyn should really be attributed to her creators, not to Hydaelyn herself.
Babylon V used this model of Light = Stasis and Dark = Change. I find it fascinating because sometime the good guys fight FOR order (like against a horde of evil demons swarming all over the place), but oftentimes good guys struggle AGAINST order (like a band of freedom fighters taking on a fascist government). So would you really say Robin Hood striking in the dead of night against the Sheriff's men is acting on the side of the "Light?" Probably not. But it still feels strange in our Christian influenced world to acknowledge that we are often served by Warriors of Darkness.
Hello! I am a sprout! I am a sprout who actually really likes spoilers. So I stayed.
This was awesome.
Using the colour theory analogy was MASSIVELY helpful for me, too. Imma watch all of these now!
The spoiler section suddenly puts Pictomancer into a whole new light. I'm glad I decided to re-review this.
I think a better way to look at Zodiark and Hydaelyn is by examining what they've actually done as far as we know. *SHADOWBRINGERS SPOILERS AHEAD, BE WARNED*
Zodiark was able to 'fix' the world after the Final Days, but it first had to consume a tremendous amount of aether to power its abilities (half of the Ascians had to be sacrificed to undo the damage, and then half of what was left to restore life). In essence, it had to destroy in order to recreate the world. Conversely, Hydaelyn took what was already in existence and split it, sundering Zodiark to protect what life existed but also splitting that life into multiple weaker shards. It created as a byproduct of 'destroying' Zodiark. Really, both of them can be seen as umbral AND astral; it's just a matter of which one is the active agent of the two, so to speak, and which is the result. Darkness both consumes and creates, light both protects and destroys.
Aetherology is such a fascinating topic for us lore nerds, because it's a lot like chemistry - each element has its own properties, but is defined largely by the effect it has on other elements.
In my head cannon, Light and Darkness also isn't forced to be Astral or Umbral. As in, you can have Astral Light and also Umbral Light.
And Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Light and Dark aligned. Usually the side that is trying to break the status quo is Astral aligned. So during the Ancient times, when Hydaelyn is trying to split the word, she is super Astral aligned, and Zodiark is Umbral. Now days, Hydaelyn becomes more and more passive, and just Umbarlly sits there, where Zodiark... I'm pretty sure Zodiark is still dead and not in the mood of existence lol
I dont like the seperation of Astral and Umbral by change->stasis
Like, you can have roaring waters and calm fires. I must destroy the Astral Umbral Balance
Can't imagine what a [ShB Spoilers below]
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lunar eclipse portrays later on (as seen on the revealed title screen); Must be something special when the literal theme of Endwalker will be Solar and Lunar (and possibly a 3rd polarity, maybe neutral?)