ah, one of the criticisms that will appear in conlang critic critic critic. the show that gets facts wrong about your favourite show that gets facts wrong about your favourite show that gets facts wrong about your favourite conlang.
The part about how jan Misali accidentally gaslit the creator of kay(f)bop(t) for almost half a decade because his computer couldn't render IPA symbols is actually hilarious
@@SlaVinkMichels I think he was a Brian, he was active in the 1990s in auxlang circles on the net. Possibly the original CONLANG listserv and the resulting AUXLANG one that span off because the non-auxlangers got sick of the constant flaming and politics between the auxlangers. He came up with his own IAL attempt at some point... can't quite remember the name, previously he also championed other ones. Anthony McCarthy brought him up because evidently Gilson criticised Esperanto and McCarthy just couldn't stand that, being the Esperantist zealot that he is.
(26:10) Note the usage of "kili" (fruit) for multiple fruits and "pipi mute" (bug many) for multiple bugs. He only puts the plural on the second because English doesn't normally say "fruits" and only "fruit" but would say "bugs". But there's plenty of languages that commonly use fruit in plural, like Swedish.
@@yeetrepublic9142 Fruit plural when talking about some actual fruit, like "I have some fruit" for a plate with fruit on it. If you are talking about TYPES of fruit, use use "fruits", such as "There are many fruits that grow on trees".
@@yeetrepublic9142 yes, but I'm taking about specifically the sentence made by jan Misali where he chose to use "fruit" as the plural, which was the main focus on my comment.
I would guess that most language that perffer to inflect for plurality when the item is plural would do the same with "fruit". English just doesnt for some reason i guess
(25:30) I also wake to criticise the use of ぴ over ひ for "pi" (and all other p- in there) for hiragana. I understand that ゜is used here to change what's in rōmaji is H to P, but tokipona doesn't use H, so you can just skip the ゜. You can just say that ひ is pronounced /pi/ in tokipona.
@@ookap-orsc That's neat to hear that you're using hiragana, because it fits so well with toki pona. It's also neat to hear that people are using what's considered H in Japanese as P in toki pona, because that shows adaptation. That's pretty cool
I disagree with the premise that "any conlang can be considered good if it follows its own goals". I think if a goal is not worth pursuing (e.g. an English-based IAL), then it's not a good language, even if it succeeds at that goal. (apologies if you mention this later in the video)
Yeah I think if you expand it to "If a language's goals are well thought through and sensible and the language follows those goals well, it's a good language" which still includes languages intended to be comedic (their goals are to be funny, the comedy is well thought through, they succeed at being comedic and funny in their particular way)
It's not quite that simple. "Any conlang can be considered good if it follows its own goals" is a reminder that, if someone intended to do a certain thing and they pulled it off well, then they've succeeded and that should be appreciated. You don't get to prescribe to someone what their goals should be, or criticise them for failing to do something they had no interest in. This mantra evolved out of the very early days of internet conlanging, particularly the listserv, because there very much was an era in the 90s and 00s of everyone criticising everyone else's conlangs purely because their own tastes and interests were different. I would caution you against the idea of assessing whether someone else's creative goals are "worth pursuing", but that's not what the phrase is about anyway. It's about not taking measures like "naturalism", "efficiency" or especially "beauty" and treating them as universally applicable avenues for criticism. I think more people would do well to remember that not just in conlanging, but all other art forms too.
I am watching this and with all that comment from LingoLizard it feels like I am with a friend-conlanger watching jan Misali and not alone in the room in my own interests for however long
Sidenote: When I started watching Conlang Critic, the latest episode out was the Kay(f)bop(t) one. That was my introduction to cursed conlangs, and I soon made Kay(h)use(g) as my first proper conlang. Much later on, when LingoLizard submitted their CCC2 lang Touching Grass, I soon submitted my own CCC2 lang RøTa as a first stab into competitive cursedlangery. When the CCC3 eventually starts, of course my lang for then will have to be more ambitious. Sidenote 2: I’m also someone with the NCVS, but unlike Misali: 1. My STRUT vowel is [ʌ] unironically 2. I have the cot-caught merger 3. Schwa is merged with KIT instead of STRUT [ɘ~ə]
overall, this episode isn't good. it spends its time making petty nitpicks, and criticising things that based on conlang critics goals (getting facts wrong) don't need criticism.
One moment of the Vötgil episode that I love and that not many people seems to talk about is when jan Misali demonstrates their proposed simplified phoneme inventory. Eet wuud saoond samseen laeek zees. Eevan zaoo eet maeet saoond shwans, eet eez steel almaoos kampleelee andastandabal too naeeteev eengleesh speekaz! Also one nitpick you missed is that Zamenhof's native language would've probably been either Russian or Yiddish, not Polish, which he learned later.
13:44 it's more complicated than that. "inuit" refers to a specific family of tribes, and is not the correct word for some peoples covered by the slur. here at least the term "Alaska Native" is preferred
30:04 kinda. Polish does kinda have /h/ as an allophone of /x/. I speak Polish natively. Also the orthography still has a /h/ and /x/ distinction even if in pronunciation they're allophones. /h/ - h; /x/ - ch
26:20 i disagree with this assessment. Firstly, if you're judging past them for not knowing the dictionary would come out, i blame PRESENT you for not knowing that yet another book has come out, canonising 2 more words, su (name of the book) and majuna (old). The language is meant to have no "common compounds" and if they exist, their meanings can be intuited. like, sitelen tawa musi is a common compound, but fun moving drawings is pretty clear to me. In fact, you literally make this point yourself at 27:05!! one quantity above life towards would actually be something like "nimi wan nanpa lon sewi pi ale tawa" good foam food would be "moku ko pona", the pi there is ungrammatical Also, the country names aren't meant to be treated as a "oh you have to memorise these". You derive them instead. In fact, i have found many inaccuracies in the document you pulled up, such as the fact it doesn't even have all the countries (small island nations are omitted, but also large ones like mongolia, kazakhstan, qatar, north korea, drc or roc, the list goes on) it has some decidedly non-countries (like gujarat) and some of the tokiponizations (ways to derive the names) are just wrong.
I was about to comment exactly this list of corrections, but I scrolled down to check and found you'd already given them. There are a lot of problems with and mistakes in this video but I let them all slide as April Fools casualness until... the Toki Pona section...
Some analyses of Māori treat long vowels as two syllables (e.g. wāhine as wa/a/hi/ne, kūmara as ku/u/ma/ra), though this is usually not argued for ā, as it appears diphthongs (like in kāuri) and is far more common than any of the other long vowels. Accounting for long ā as a separate phoneme but not other long vowels and counting diphthongs as multiple syllables would put Māori at 66 distinct syllables (or 62, if you exclude wu, wo, whu, and who, which all only occur in loanwords).
I on esperanto part. And about /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ in portuguese, both do exist but /tʃ/ its more commun for exemple the world tchau (bye) or atchim normaly is represented as [tch], and /dʒ/ /tʃ/ also apper on un-stressed sylabbles as allophones of /d/ and /t/, so most of the ppl say /tʃi.ɡɾe/ or /dʒia/
53:20 Globasa allusion! 1:13:41 second allusion let's goooo!!! Things I say with humorous intent but at least partially actually mean aside, this is a fantastic breakdown/highlight compilation/opinion piece with fact-checked addenda with basically nothing for me to complain about, especially seeing as this is the most new CC content I've seen since the infini-hiatus (which as cope I still tell myself will end once as many months have passed as there have been people who asked when the next episode will come out, as jan Misali had said on social media some years ago), making this easily the best critique critique I've ever watched so far. (If you ever find the time, though, I'd be very curious to hear what kinds of problems you have with Globasa)
13:51 Eskimo doesn’t just refer to Inuit people :/ Inuits are one people group within the broader Eskaleut ethnolinguistic group, which also includes Yuit, Yup’ik and Aleutian. Calling all of these people ‘Inuit’ is like calling all the people from the British isles ‘Scotch’. I’ll explain. Some people from Scotland would rather not be called ‘Scotch’ and would rather be called Scottish, but other people, perhaps even from the same area, may refer to themselves as Scotch and prefer you call them Scotch. However, someone from Cornwall would very much not appreciate being called Scotch for very different reasons. These two people might have many traditions in common and speak very similar languages! But they’re still not both ‘Scotch’ It’s also similar to how many tribes of Native Americans have differing opinions on the term “American Indian”. Many people prefer the term ‘Indian’ to ‘Native American’! But yet others consider it very pejorative. Put simply, words are hard. However, just dismissing using the word Eskimo as a slur without talking about the context is kinda un-nuanced and lazy. If anyone has anything to add please reply to this comment, especially if you are Inuit or from another Eskimo/Eskaleut group. Thank you :)
Yea i keep Getting Confused when peoplen dont like that word and tell me to use Inuit, like bruh Thanks for the Comment hope some people learned somethin from ya :3
29:24 Punjabi does have [ʒ] which is written ژ in Shahmukhi and ਜ਼ in Gurmukhi. There isn't a difference between the [z] and [ʒ] consonant in Gurmukhi script, but it can be pronounced. Most dialects in India which use Gurmukhi script simplify it and reduce [dʒ], [z], and [ʒ] to just one sound, [dʒ], which is also common in some dialects of Hindi and other South Asian languages as Hindutva ideology ties [z] and [ʒ] to Islam and tries to distance itself from those sounds.
44:37 nitpick but it should be compatible with those languages since the Elefen documentation says that h can be left silent if the speaker prefers (e.g. ba-amas instead of bahamas) while only being present in very few words, which is probably why jan misali didn't mention it, but i don't blame you for missing it for that reason lol anyway loved the video!! as someone who's also binged conlang critic, this felt like a nice sort of closure to a lot of the episodes that the original series kind of lacked, especially with the interviews. huge props to you for making it happen.
woah woah hold on, most of your criticism is valid, but saying the kay(f)bop(t)ep is not as good as the Vötgil is straight up the wrong opinion. the kay(f)bop(t) ep was the best
I cannot believe that I actually watched a hour and a half long video reviewing a series which I've only seen two/three episodes of... That's Lizard for ya! P.S. I hope no one got a stroke reading my comment 😅
while i think the critique regarding anusvara is valid, i do agree with jan Misali in using in the hangulization. the and vowels are just combinations of and with . it also keeps better symmetry.
Eh, by now with exposure to English loanwords, they seem to make the distinction correctly with words like fight ファイト and fire ファイヤ, I have never heard those pronounced with ha instead of fa. Same for fi, fo, fe. The only one that can genuinely be ambiguous is the fu
26:29 allow me to be pedantic and say that jan Sonja's new toki pona rendition of the wizard of oz includes 2 new words: su (interacting with the book), majuna (ancient, old). so it should be 139. ish. 27:17 redundant pi? disgraceful 1:25:46 what
I love this episode. There were a few moments where I definitely wanted to shout "Shots fired!" but you guys probably know which moments those are so I won't specify them now. Also, biggest what the h3ck moment: ranking of the Iqlic episode. Did I miss something there? But yeah, awesome video, man.
Welcome to Conlang Critic Critic Critic, the youtube comment that gets facts wrong about your favorite conlang critic critics! I'm jan Lapi, and this comment is a first in a few ways, because it's the only episode I have ever made and will ever make.
32:44 as a Russian speaker I can assure you, that there's no a word for writing false cyrillic as "volapük"(but it is really funny how jan misali put false cyrillic to that one)
conlang critic era jan misali feels like he had such a deep hatred for IALs that he interpreted anything with slightly IAL vibes as an IAL and said it was bad - except for toki pona of course which is totally perfect (kijetesantakalu is totally not going against the entire point definitely not)
11:08 no it doesnt?? kinda unfunny joke my guy - implying someone's nationality makes them prejudiced against a group of people right away even if its irony thats in bad taste otherwise hey cool episode till that point
"even with toki pona, you're proabably missing all the country and language names, and all the commonly used words and phrases" proceeds to claim that toki pona word derivation isn't defined
pi generally shouldn't be used unless it contains two content words. moku ko pi pona is just moku ko pona with an extra syllable that may hinder auditory parsing
I loved the Sambahsa episode, and despite Misali's criticisms: I really like the idea of Sambahsa! That being said, I feel that Oliver Simon's criticism of the conlang critic episode isn't fair. - He says that jan Misali wanted a simple anglicization, when he hates anglicization, see Vötgil. - He says that jan Misali is "trying to get a throat cancer" when pronouncing the voiced uvular fricative, but that phoneme is hard for English speakers to pronounce. - it is not necessary to learn a language to review it. he uses jan Misali's videos on video games as an indication that he lost interest in Sambahsa? Misali mentions that "I don't want a piano dropped on me" mentioning that he doesn't like how much effort goes into learning the language. but: this isn't a criticism of the language as a whole but a personal criticism. Sambahsa is meant to be hard to learn. If jan Misali says that's bad, then I'd have an issue with that, but I don't believe he was treating that issue as a fatal flaw. - "there are only three irregular verbs and the conjugations of the other ones can be deduced from their shape." There's a good chance jan Misali overcomplicated the verbs here, and didn't look deep enough into them, but it's also hard to believe there's an accessible method of learning verbs if he did a month of research and didn't find them. The verbs may be as complicated as jan Misali mentions. Also: 3 irregular verbs? why is it necessary to have any when the goal is to have *regularized indoeuropean*? I want to be clear also that I don't want to shut down Oliver Simon's right to criticize him, and I'm not saying his feelings are invalid. I feel bad that there's a famous review on a project he worked hard on, and feels that said review doesn't do the project justice. People on the internet also may be overly critical when an internet man says he doesn't like something. jan Misali went pretty in depth with Sambahsa, and I believe his thoughts at the end of the video were more personal opinions, and him being subjective, not objective. Perhaps subjective opinion should be left out of Conlang Critic, but that'd require Misali to be a bit less of a personality on his own show. I guess the best way to have handled it was to be clear about when he was being subjective and when he was being objective.
i actually cant believe they didnt mention ithkuil using centesimal. like i get that the ithkuil episode was before a better way to count but still base 100 is lame
@@janvesely1087 It's a "joke beef" than any serious hatred, but imo they tend to somewhat misunderstand things about conlangs and the misconception of Arabic being "3 vowel system" language.
I hope some you guys swap singular they for something else eventually, because listening to this video made me realise how confusing it is in practice. It's kind of like slipping every time you change direction while walking.
conlang critic critic critic when
welcome to conlang critic critic critic, the critic that gets critics wrong about your critic critic.
Oh my golly! It’s Misali!
Stolen comment
There are thousands of people who would sit through 3 hours of that
So, uhh...what happened with the Blissymbolics episode?
the intro should have been "... the show that gets facts wrong about your favorite show that gets facts wrong about your favorite conlang"
ah, one of the criticisms that will appear in conlang critic critic critic.
the show that gets facts wrong about your favourite show that gets facts wrong about your favourite show that gets facts wrong about your favourite conlang.
Would be even better if the latter half uses a clip from jan Misali's video
16:43 If someone makes a jan Misali iceberg "jan Misali gaslit the creator of kay(f)bop(t)" needs to be an entry
yes
and an even deeper entry about what ipa chars those chinese characters might be
@@frank_calvert 酶(p) is actually ø(p), and z瑟g(f)陛蒲(f)z瑟g(t)陛a(f) is zɪg(f)ʔʌ(f)zɪg(t)ʔa(f)
@@frank_calvert Great idea. We have so many different multi-byte character sets to convert between.
Now we need Jan misali to make conlang critic critic critic
Yes
the capitalization in "Jan misali" is destroying me
Now that he's made his 2 hour "how many Super Mario games are there NOW?" video, he should hopefully be on it
The part about how jan Misali accidentally gaslit the creator of kay(f)bop(t) for almost half a decade because his computer couldn't render IPA symbols is actually hilarious
timestamp: 16:43
Gaslit is a bit of a harsh term to use when it was an accident, but it's a pretty unfortunate cock up.
Help
nguh
nguh
nguh
nguh
nguh
“overall i like this one more than the yaoi episode” is all i can hear when you talk about aUI
oh my god i'm so glad i'm not the only one
I love yaoi!!!!!!!
@@atlas16198 i’m def a yuri fan but good for you!
ayo
I literally started jumping up and down with excitement when you said “Im a bit excites, because this episode is a first in a few ways”
good april fools joke, you're only 353 days early.
…or 11 days late.
@@thatoddshadeor 377 days late
_mod 365:_
> They are literally the same picture
Conlang Critic Critic Episode Two: B. Gilson
Does anyone actually know who B. Gilson is?
Conlang Critic Critic Episode Three: Otto Jespersen
@@SlaVinkMichels some guy with an esperanto podcast or something
So superficial...
@@SlaVinkMichels I think he was a Brian, he was active in the 1990s in auxlang circles on the net. Possibly the original CONLANG listserv and the resulting AUXLANG one that span off because the non-auxlangers got sick of the constant flaming and politics between the auxlangers. He came up with his own IAL attempt at some point... can't quite remember the name, previously he also championed other ones. Anthony McCarthy brought him up because evidently Gilson criticised Esperanto and McCarthy just couldn't stand that, being the Esperantist zealot that he is.
Ygyde islamophobia? What lore did I miss, someone fill me in
the official word for Islam is 'dangerous religious organization'. in fact, the ygyde dictionary is full of racism
The word for islam is something like "dangerous organization" or something. I can't find its dictionary anymore
Also indigenous American is called reddish person and gossip is feminine communications.
@@CobaltHammer-yb3hu "feminine communications" is crazy
@@tristensanz7058descriptive names are great 👍🏻
29:15
Brazilian portuguese, which accounts for the vast majority of native Portuguese speakers, does have that sound!
So enjoyed being interviewed for this!!! Thanks so much for the amazing job you've done to make this haha
(26:10) Note the usage of "kili" (fruit) for multiple fruits and "pipi mute" (bug many) for multiple bugs. He only puts the plural on the second because English doesn't normally say "fruits" and only "fruit" but would say "bugs". But there's plenty of languages that commonly use fruit in plural, like Swedish.
English says "fruits" though???
@@yeetrepublic9142 Fruit plural when talking about some actual fruit, like "I have some fruit" for a plate with fruit on it. If you are talking about TYPES of fruit, use use "fruits", such as "There are many fruits that grow on trees".
@@yeetrepublic9142 yes, but I'm taking about specifically the sentence made by jan Misali where he chose to use "fruit" as the plural, which was the main focus on my comment.
almost like its basically impossible for your native language to slightly make itself obvious in some way if you speak an ial
I would guess that most language that perffer to inflect for plurality when the item is plural would do the same with "fruit". English just doesnt for some reason i guess
(25:30) I also wake to criticise the use of ぴ over ひ for "pi" (and all other p- in there) for hiragana. I understand that ゜is used here to change what's in rōmaji is H to P, but tokipona doesn't use H, so you can just skip the ゜. You can just say that ひ is pronounced /pi/ in tokipona.
i write toki pona in kana quite a lot, and i'll say many people including me use ひ (and other h-row kana as /p/)
@@ookap-orsc That's neat to hear that you're using hiragana, because it fits so well with toki pona. It's also neat to hear that people are using what's considered H in Japanese as P in toki pona, because that shows adaptation. That's pretty cool
ときほな
I disagree with the premise that "any conlang can be considered good if it follows its own goals". I think if a goal is not worth pursuing (e.g. an English-based IAL), then it's not a good language, even if it succeeds at that goal. (apologies if you mention this later in the video)
Yeah I think if you expand it to "If a language's goals are well thought through and sensible and the language follows those goals well, it's a good language" which still includes languages intended to be comedic (their goals are to be funny, the comedy is well thought through, they succeed at being comedic and funny in their particular way)
It's not quite that simple. "Any conlang can be considered good if it follows its own goals" is a reminder that, if someone intended to do a certain thing and they pulled it off well, then they've succeeded and that should be appreciated. You don't get to prescribe to someone what their goals should be, or criticise them for failing to do something they had no interest in. This mantra evolved out of the very early days of internet conlanging, particularly the listserv, because there very much was an era in the 90s and 00s of everyone criticising everyone else's conlangs purely because their own tastes and interests were different. I would caution you against the idea of assessing whether someone else's creative goals are "worth pursuing", but that's not what the phrase is about anyway. It's about not taking measures like "naturalism", "efficiency" or especially "beauty" and treating them as universally applicable avenues for criticism. I think more people would do well to remember that not just in conlanging, but all other art forms too.
I am watching this and with all that comment from LingoLizard it feels like I am with a friend-conlanger watching jan Misali and not alone in the room in my own interests for however long
The artifexian section with the music was soul-healing
and then the nativlang section with the silence dragged out was soul-stealing
Sidenote: When I started watching Conlang Critic, the latest episode out was the Kay(f)bop(t) one. That was my introduction to cursed conlangs, and I soon made Kay(h)use(g) as my first proper conlang.
Much later on, when LingoLizard submitted their CCC2 lang Touching Grass, I soon submitted my own CCC2 lang RøTa as a first stab into competitive cursedlangery.
When the CCC3 eventually starts, of course my lang for then will have to be more ambitious.
Sidenote 2: I’m also someone with the NCVS, but unlike Misali:
1. My STRUT vowel is [ʌ] unironically
2. I have the cot-caught merger
3. Schwa is merged with KIT instead of STRUT [ɘ~ə]
The amount of mic changes in jan Misali's series is insane lmao
I can’t believe you’re ending the series so soon, I was hyped for the potential episodes on Otto Jespersen and B. Gilson
now I want to rewatch the conlang critic playlist for the second time
What do you mean only second
overall, this episode isn't good. it spends its time making petty nitpicks, and criticising things that based on conlang critics goals (getting facts wrong) don't need criticism.
conlang critic critic critic
Found this literally the day after I finished every Conlang Critic video
This only matters or is notable as a coincidence because this video was posted on the same day I finished watching Conlang Critic
One moment of the Vötgil episode that I love and that not many people seems to talk about is when jan Misali demonstrates their proposed simplified phoneme inventory.
Eet wuud saoond samseen laeek zees. Eevan zaoo eet maeet saoond shwans, eet eez steel almaoos kampleelee andastandabal too naeeteev eengleesh speekaz!
Also one nitpick you missed is that Zamenhof's native language would've probably been either Russian or Yiddish, not Polish, which he learned later.
13:44 it's more complicated than that. "inuit" refers to a specific family of tribes, and is not the correct word for some peoples covered by the slur. here at least the term "Alaska Native" is preferred
30:04 kinda. Polish does kinda have /h/ as an allophone of /x/. I speak Polish natively. Also the orthography still has a /h/ and /x/ distinction even if in pronunciation they're allophones. /h/ - h; /x/ - ch
Would most polish speakers be able to differentiate them though?
@@enkor9591
Without learning it no
33:18 WOW, the detail of removing the pauses between words when talking about a lack of pauses between words. A lovely detail!
26:20 i disagree with this assessment.
Firstly, if you're judging past them for not knowing the dictionary would come out, i blame PRESENT you for not knowing that yet another book has come out, canonising 2 more words, su (name of the book) and majuna (old).
The language is meant to have no "common compounds" and if they exist, their meanings can be intuited. like, sitelen tawa musi is a common compound, but fun moving drawings is pretty clear to me.
In fact, you literally make this point yourself at 27:05!!
one quantity above life towards would actually be something like "nimi wan nanpa lon sewi pi ale tawa"
good foam food would be "moku ko pona", the pi there is ungrammatical
Also, the country names aren't meant to be treated as a "oh you have to memorise these". You derive them instead. In fact, i have found many inaccuracies in the document you pulled up, such as the fact it doesn't even have all the countries (small island nations are omitted, but also large ones like mongolia, kazakhstan, qatar, north korea, drc or roc, the list goes on) it has some decidedly non-countries (like gujarat) and some of the tokiponizations (ways to derive the names) are just wrong.
I was about to comment exactly this list of corrections, but I scrolled down to check and found you'd already given them. There are a lot of problems with and mistakes in this video but I let them all slide as April Fools casualness until... the Toki Pona section...
The unexpected crossover. Especially a series revival. Nice
25:27 te reo māori also has phonemic vowel length distinction, so surely you’d need to double this for those..?
Some analyses of Māori treat long vowels as two syllables (e.g. wāhine as wa/a/hi/ne, kūmara as ku/u/ma/ra), though this is usually not argued for ā, as it appears diphthongs (like in kāuri) and is far more common than any of the other long vowels. Accounting for long ā as a separate phoneme but not other long vowels and counting diphthongs as multiple syllables would put Māori at 66 distinct syllables (or 62, if you exclude wu, wo, whu, and who, which all only occur in loanwords).
11:00 "Novicki is a very polish surname which explains the islamophobia" well he's not wrong
Nowicki
There's some irony in implying that someone is destined to be prejudiced against a demographic because of the part of the world they're from, though
the translation "moku ko pi pona" at 27:16 is ungrammatical, it should be "moku ko pona"
RUclips gives me the option to translate this to English, and the only change is "moku ko pona" becomes "moku ko pi pona"
Same lol@@emilyvalentine4565
lol youtube doesn't know how to handle toki pona at all
T H E M I G H T Y T R A N S L A T O R S A Y S Y O U A R E W R O N G @@emilyvalentine4565
overall i like olivier simon less than lingolizard, making him the second best conlang critic critic reviewed so far.
Where did Olivier Simon review conlang critics?
15:39 my right ear loved this part
You should make a video on B. Gilson
I cannot wait for Lizard to release conlang critic critic critic critic to solidify the conlang critic inception
I literally had displayed in text in the first 6 SECONDS of the video to shorten my username to Lingo and not any other way (ie. not Lizard)
I on esperanto part.
And about /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ in portuguese, both do exist but /tʃ/ its more commun for exemple the world tchau (bye) or atchim normaly is represented as [tch], and /dʒ/ /tʃ/ also apper on un-stressed sylabbles as allophones of /d/ and /t/, so most of the ppl say /tʃi.ɡɾe/ or /dʒia/
Me after 30 minutes of watching this, in my best Lethal Weapon impression:
"I'm getting too neurotypical for this shit"
*considers making a video called conlang critic critic critic*
53:20 Globasa allusion!
1:13:41 second allusion let's goooo!!!
Things I say with humorous intent but at least partially actually mean aside, this is a fantastic breakdown/highlight compilation/opinion piece with fact-checked addenda with basically nothing for me to complain about, especially seeing as this is the most new CC content I've seen since the infini-hiatus (which as cope I still tell myself will end once as many months have passed as there have been people who asked when the next episode will come out, as jan Misali had said on social media some years ago), making this easily the best critique critique I've ever watched so far.
(If you ever find the time, though, I'd be very curious to hear what kinds of problems you have with Globasa)
13:51 Eskimo doesn’t just refer to Inuit people :/ Inuits are one people group within the broader Eskaleut ethnolinguistic group, which also includes Yuit, Yup’ik and Aleutian. Calling all of these people ‘Inuit’ is like calling all the people from the British isles ‘Scotch’. I’ll explain.
Some people from Scotland would rather not be called ‘Scotch’ and would rather be called Scottish, but other people, perhaps even from the same area, may refer to themselves as Scotch and prefer you call them Scotch. However, someone from Cornwall would very much not appreciate being called Scotch for very different reasons. These two people might have many traditions in common and speak very similar languages! But they’re still not both ‘Scotch’
It’s also similar to how many tribes of Native Americans have differing opinions on the term “American Indian”. Many people prefer the term ‘Indian’ to ‘Native American’! But yet others consider it very pejorative.
Put simply, words are hard. However, just dismissing using the word Eskimo as a slur without talking about the context is kinda un-nuanced and lazy.
If anyone has anything to add please reply to this comment, especially if you are Inuit or from another Eskimo/Eskaleut group. Thank you :)
Yea i keep Getting Confused when peoplen dont like that word and tell me to use Inuit, like bruh
Thanks for the Comment hope some people learned somethin from ya :3
"TREATING COUNTRY NAMES DIFFERENTLY IS NOWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS SEXISM"
Quote of the year
More than the endless void of nothingness, which has a distinct colour of slate-blue.
1:25:46 you said iqlic is better than futurese, but worse than toki pona, and proceeds to put it between is and folkspraak
3:30 shouldve said "you silly billy"
I think this is one of my new favourite RUclips videos
29:24 Punjabi does have [ʒ] which is written ژ in Shahmukhi and ਜ਼ in Gurmukhi. There isn't a difference between the [z] and [ʒ] consonant in Gurmukhi script, but it can be pronounced. Most dialects in India which use Gurmukhi script simplify it and reduce [dʒ], [z], and [ʒ] to just one sound, [dʒ], which is also common in some dialects of Hindi and other South Asian languages as Hindutva ideology ties [z] and [ʒ] to Islam and tries to distance itself from those sounds.
you should make episode 2 on anthony mccarthy
26:29 this is not a valid critic, as the video was clearly made before ku came out
some of these criticisms feel like cinemasins trying to meet the "100 things wrong with blank" quota
44:37 nitpick but it should be compatible with those languages since the Elefen documentation says that h can be left silent if the speaker prefers (e.g. ba-amas instead of bahamas) while only being present in very few words, which is probably why jan misali didn't mention it, but i don't blame you for missing it for that reason lol
anyway loved the video!! as someone who's also binged conlang critic, this felt like a nice sort of closure to a lot of the episodes that the original series kind of lacked, especially with the interviews. huge props to you for making it happen.
BUT WHEN BILLY RAY WALDON-
Is it just me, or does Olivier Simon's Discord message have a kind of arrogant, snobbish tone to it?
woah woah hold on, most of your criticism is valid, but saying the kay(f)bop(t)ep is not as good as the Vötgil is straight up the wrong opinion. the kay(f)bop(t) ep was the best
15:24 prolangs jumpscare
I cannot believe that I actually watched a hour and a half long video reviewing a series which I've only seen two/three episodes of...
That's Lizard for ya!
P.S. I hope no one got a stroke reading my comment 😅
the interslavic episode felt like when he started to realize the entire format was bad or at least done terribly poorly
while i think the critique regarding anusvara is valid, i do agree with jan Misali in using in the hangulization. the and vowels are just combinations of and with . it also keeps better symmetry.
Welcome to conlang critic critic critic where I crtique the lack of colour coding (or similat) of the episode chart by season.
10:30 also Japanese can't distinguish between f and h
Eh, by now with exposure to English loanwords, they seem to make the distinction correctly with words like fight ファイト and fire ファイヤ, I have never heard those pronounced with ha instead of fa. Same for fi, fo, fe. The only one that can genuinely be ambiguous is the fu
Happy New Year!
Also feels like Alexander Pope and Thomas Hearne rivalry😂.
Why didn't you talk about his Phonology Critic, his Orthography Critic, and his Grammar Critic?
26:29 allow me to be pedantic and say that jan Sonja's new toki pona rendition of the wizard of oz includes 2 new words: su (interacting with the book), majuna (ancient, old). so it should be 139. ish.
27:17 redundant pi? disgraceful
1:25:46 what
27:18
You can't use "pi" before just one modifier, we need Conlang Critic Critic Critic
Video isn't long enough.
ermmm.... yeast???? [jist]
I love this episode. There were a few moments where I definitely wanted to shout "Shots fired!" but you guys probably know which moments those are so I won't specify them now. Also, biggest what the h3ck moment: ranking of the Iqlic episode. Did I miss something there? But yeah, awesome video, man.
Bro missed the oppotlrtunity to be StealthySquamate :(
things heating up in the inception community
im hoping for an episode covering the idiotic b gilson.
Welcome to Conlang Critic Critic Critic, the youtube comment that gets facts wrong about your favorite conlang critic critics! I'm jan Lapi, and this comment is a first in a few ways, because it's the only episode I have ever made and will ever make.
29:42 as a Punjabi, thank you
56:26 a tiny mistake on Thai vowel combination /ɯː/: it should be กือ as a special case for the rhyme /ɯː/ with no coda.
32:44 as a Russian speaker I can assure you, that there's no a word for writing false cyrillic as "volapük"(but it is really funny how jan misali put false cyrillic to that one)
conlang critic era jan misali feels like he had such a deep hatred for IALs that he interpreted anything with slightly IAL vibes as an IAL and said it was bad - except for toki pona of course which is totally perfect (kijetesantakalu is totally not going against the entire point definitely not)
29:06 I don't know why they went with /o/ when /p/ is a much better example for a sound Arabic lacks.
11:08 no it doesnt?? kinda unfunny joke my guy - implying someone's nationality makes them prejudiced against a group of people right away
even if its irony thats in bad taste
otherwise hey cool episode till that point
"even with toki pona, you're proabably missing all the country and language names, and all the commonly used words and phrases"
proceeds to claim that toki pona word derivation isn't defined
I think I manifested this by listening to Jule's covers of Tokipono or whatever it is over and over today
You have got to be about the most superficial commentator on conlang critics since the idiotic B. Gilson. So superficial
This video should have forty-two chapters, not thirty-seven.
pi generally shouldn't be used unless it contains two content words. moku ko pi pona is just moku ko pona with an extra syllable that may hinder auditory parsing
11:30 The what episode? /j
9:49
Wait what!? Where did that come from?
13:29
Anyone know what happened to Ian Foster?
14:28
Omg
30:23
Yoooooo
the official word for Islam in ygyde literally means 'dangerous religion'
Possibly the nichest video to ever exist. Banger though
so hyped to watch this whole thing, based lingolizard!
great video! although just so you know the links to the channels in the description seem to be broken
jan misali got me and prolly so many more people into colanging and linguistics in general
27:19 welcome to conlang critic critic critic. Nothing in this frame is grammatically correct.
I loved the Sambahsa episode, and despite Misali's criticisms: I really like the idea of Sambahsa!
That being said, I feel that Oliver Simon's criticism of the conlang critic episode isn't fair.
- He says that jan Misali wanted a simple anglicization, when he hates anglicization, see Vötgil.
- He says that jan Misali is "trying to get a throat cancer" when pronouncing the voiced uvular fricative, but that phoneme is hard for English speakers to pronounce.
- it is not necessary to learn a language to review it. he uses jan Misali's videos on video games as an indication that he lost interest in Sambahsa? Misali mentions that "I don't want a piano dropped on me" mentioning that he doesn't like how much effort goes into learning the language. but: this isn't a criticism of the language as a whole but a personal criticism. Sambahsa is meant to be hard to learn. If jan Misali says that's bad, then I'd have an issue with that, but I don't believe he was treating that issue as a fatal flaw.
- "there are only three irregular verbs and the conjugations of the other ones can be deduced from their shape." There's a good chance jan Misali overcomplicated the verbs here, and didn't look deep enough into them, but it's also hard to believe there's an accessible method of learning verbs if he did a month of research and didn't find them. The verbs may be as complicated as jan Misali mentions. Also: 3 irregular verbs? why is it necessary to have any when the goal is to have *regularized indoeuropean*?
I want to be clear also that I don't want to shut down Oliver Simon's right to criticize him, and I'm not saying his feelings are invalid. I feel bad that there's a famous review on a project he worked hard on, and feels that said review doesn't do the project justice. People on the internet also may be overly critical when an internet man says he doesn't like something. jan Misali went pretty in depth with Sambahsa, and I believe his thoughts at the end of the video were more personal opinions, and him being subjective, not objective. Perhaps subjective opinion should be left out of Conlang Critic, but that'd require Misali to be a bit less of a personality on his own show. I guess the best way to have handled it was to be clear about when he was being subjective and when he was being objective.
overall i like olivier simon less than lingolizard, making him the second best conlang critic critic reviewed so far.
this is my new favourite video
such an iconic
15:24 prolangs mentioned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i actually cant believe they didnt mention ithkuil using centesimal. like i get that the ithkuil episode was before a better way to count but still base 100 is lame
same lol i didnt know it until that video
jan Misali criticism and slander is what I live for.
What's your beef with him?
@@janvesely1087 It's a "joke beef" than any serious hatred, but imo they tend to somewhat misunderstand things about conlangs and the misconception of Arabic being "3 vowel system" language.
i'm a bit excited!
Can somebody tell me why Ygyde is islamaphobic?
The word for Islam, ytacete, morpheme per morpheme, translates to dangerous religious organization
I hope some you guys swap singular they for something else eventually, because listening to this video made me realise how confusing it is in practice. It's kind of like slipping every time you change direction while walking.
No views in 20 seconds. Fell off