How To Save Star Wars
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
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Star Wars is dying. Here's how to save it.
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0:00 - Intro
1:54 - Part 1 - Where Disney Has Done It Right
15:55 - Part 2 - Star Wars Has No Vision
30:01 - Part 3 - The Danger Of Giving Fans What They Want
1:02:04 - Part 4 - A Messy Canon
1:20:24 - Part 5 - A Better Plan
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All stock footage is provided by Getty
Written & narrated by Henry Boseley
Edited by Brandon Reardin
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- Henry
The Rise of Skywalker would have worked better if it was a Looney Tunes movie than as a Star Wars film
Wait your name is Henry?
Great video Henry 👍
However, I think the finale of Mandolorian S2 was fine. The problem was S3. Finally seeing Luke as a Jedi was long overdue (40 years since RotJ!), but then Filoni didn't do anything with him....
I agree the Sequels were awful, as was "Obiwan Kenobi" and "The Book of Bobba Fett", but I don't agree with your criticism of Andor. As it's about Cassian, it was inevitably going to take place just before Rogue One and consequently was always going to about the Rebel Alliance vs the Empire.
*The problem isn't Andor at all.The problem is that the Sequels (and also the Obiwan and Bobba Fett shows) didn't progress the story or expand the universe.*
Andor was never going to attract as many viewers by itself, but if these other films and shows were popular and well received, then it probably would've been watched by more people. It's like the Hawkeye of the MCU: A mini-series about a side character which is supposed to add to the existing SWU. Instead, it exists in a vacuum because the Sequels failed.
I'm literally tired of all the morons saying 'every SW show should be perfect and infinitely rewatchable'.
Let me paint a picture for you - how many films are made in a single year? How many of those films will be talked about in ten years? How many of those films will be talked about in 50 years?
While I hate everything that Disney is and what it represents, it produces shows and films that are (mostly) great and bad in the same amount as always.
There are only so many great movies in every single year. While viewers might expect more, the reality is that corporations will create 'content' in order to fill up gaps in the streaming or in the theaters.
Why everyone should boycott Disney is the same reason why everyone should boycott every big film industry in Hollywood - they just provide money in order to make much more money.
They don't care about what their 'content' says. They are just the owners and the financiers of it. And, most importantly, they blackmail the theaters to show their movies instead of any others.
50:28 LOL
Andor is 100 times better than any Star Wars that came before it (acknowledging that it wouldn't exist without it).
The Looney Toons of the prequel SW is ridiculous. Not even a YA author would craft a story as silly as the prequel trilogy is.
It really is depressing how drastically this franchise devolved.
have you seen andor? i would totally watch it, it's crazy to me how good it can be while surrounded by the likes of boba fett and obi wan
@@ryuined yh, but have u seen Ashoka yet? They are starting to repeat fight formats already and paste it onto new series ( hallway fight)
@@rolp9818 How many fucking hallways are there in space!?
@@rolp9818that’s unfortunate. I’ve watched Ashoka and only Ashoka so I didn’t know they’ve been copying and pasting the fight choreography
@@AIA2637 Yh bro, the hallway scene was done for Vader in Rogue one, Luke for Mando, and this new series, I don't wanna ruin yer experience if yer new to the franchise just stating a noticeable trope they started
I think Andor was arguably a greater risk than The Mandalorian. The Mandalorian had iconic Boba-Fett esque armor (I know multiple people who sat down to watch season 1 thinking it was in fact about Boba Fett), it had Baby Yoda who was instantly Iconic and monetizeable, and most of its content was pretty safe, fun, kid friendly (if a bit scary at times) and delightful.
Andor on the other hand was way riskier. To make a Starwars series without any Jedi, The Force, or Lightsabers, very few wacky droids or crazy aliens. One with a lot of political dialogue and interpersonal drama. It’s the least kid-friendly starwars IP. That’s a huge risk on their part.
Mandalorian was not risky. It was the TV show equivalent of trying to make a new story when playing with your Star Wars action figures. It has several boba fetts, a yoda, and locations that are similar but technically different than other locations.
@alexander-ru4gd ..that is exactly was they said. Did you even read their comment?
@@lupolinar the words you’re looking for are ‘they’ and ‘their’
@@alexander-ru4gd 👍
@@AdamC_465grrrrrr....pronouns....damn libs...
/s
It always surprised me how Disney hasn't capitalized on the fact that force users are constantly born across the galaxy. Even if the Jedi order was destroyed, these force users would still exist. While they wouldn't necessarily be trained to be Jedi, they could pop up here and there showing different aptitudes with the force that they trained on their own.
Nah, it comes through bloodlines, so if they exterminate the known jedi, especially the children, they eliminate the new force users being born
@@Sinsteel not saying that the bloodline doesn't have an influence, but celibacy was a part of the Jedi code to avoid attachments. The literature points out that there were many that disregarded this point, but the source of force users were purely bloodlines we'd see "force families", and the Jedi order wouldn't feel the need to take young children in the name of training them in the force to be Jedi.
Sometimes it feels like the writers forget this as every new force user has to have bloodline ties to ones we already know.
@@SinsteelNope
Last Jedi did that, and people hated it.
@@edgarjacksby1402 but not for that reason. Rey being portrayed as having "nobody" parents gave a breath of fresh air where it conveyed that anyone can choose to step up to fight evil, regardless of your background. And the universe might even help you.
Top reasons I dislike The Last Jedi:
- Changes in Luke's character betray the growth he had in the original trilogy.
- Casino planet. A losing bet.
- Killing Snoke without truly fleshing him out. I want to know how Kylo was brought to the dark side at bare minimum.
- Holdo's plan and keeping it secret at the loss of allies' trust, for seemingly no reason.
- Finn and Poe didn't get developed well.
Top reasons I like The Last Jedi:
- Luke's philosophy on the force.
- Final scene with Luke's force projection: that was awesome.
- Rey/Kylo dichotomy: interesting developments that while clumsy in some aspects, seemed inspired.
- Scene at end with casino planet kid using the force. This was largely why I'm disappointed Disney didn't capitalize on the fact that other force users are constantly being born. They recognize it but ignore it.
A really good illustration of George RR Martin's "Don't just do what's popular" was the introduction of Ahsoka in the Clone Wars movie. The fan rage was real I remember. "ANAKIN WOULD NEVER TRAIN AN APPRENTICE. ESPECIALLY NOT A LITTLE GIRL." "SHES SO ANNOYING I HOPE SHE DIES. SHE PROBABLY DOES BECAUSE WE NEVER SEE HER IN EPISODE 3". And then how many of those same fans sat in stunned silence as she turned her back to the temple and left Anakin and the order behind. She was a new, bold, and widely unpopular addition to the franchise, and with proper character development and giving her a real arc, she became a favorite. It also helped that she didn't suffer from Mary Sue-ism that most modern "Force is Female" protagonists suffer. She made mistakes, she was reckless, she had to ask for help, and receive help she didn't ask for. It was great. I miss good writing
Wait, was she really not well received initially?
Huh. I mean I haven't watched the Clone Wars but I'm thinking of getting into it, but it really makes you think
@@spillersoda Yeah, back in the day I remember the discourse was fiery. Her initial presentation also didn't help things as the original movie that predated the show was kinda jarring for people used to live action Star Wars, so a lot of fans (especially those who were teenagers like I was) saw TCW as a kiddy kid show for kids. Time makes fools of us all, and now TCW did some of, if not the most legwork in world building the Star Wars Galaxy within canon. I also think it is one of the biggest reasons that the Prequels are now looked back on far more favorably than they were because it was such an important connective tissue for all the war and hardship and political drama. It integrated Expanded Universe ideas into what is canon, it explored more high-concepts of the force beyond the binary Jedi yay Sith boo we get in most movies and games. Heck it was even very kind to gamers, giving the first canon appearance Republic Commando's Delta Squad along with other small game references and Easter Eggs that would probably take a hot minute to find them all. But back to Ahsoka, there's a video out there about how Ahsoka was fixed in 4 episodes, specifically the Ryloth arc. Not only was Ryloth where the show had one of the most harrowing depictions of the reality of war while remaining family friendly (the little girl who helped the clones Waxer and Boil but was separated from her parents, the human shields of the gun turrets, that stuff). In the arc, Ahsoka is given a lot of character moments and developments, one of the most well done being her command of a fighter squadron that, due to circumstances, gets wiped out. She is taught responsibility, consequences, trust, and so many strong character lessons in that arc. It really goes to show how all the screeching about how "Star Wars Gatekeeping Fanboys don't like female protagonists and stories" is just the flimsiest excuse, because they were able to in about 60 minutes of screen time, take one of the most hated female characters of all time and turn the community sentiment about her around not by making her stronger or more perfect like Rey, but by making her flawed and giving her space to grow.
@@punklingytThey're looked back on more favourably because of the context of everything that's happened since. That's all. Star Wars used to have a MUCH, MUCH higher bar to live up to, and after the prequels and then again all this Disney crap, we have been trained for years to expect and accept mediocrity.
I still think The Last Jedi will be looked back on fondly.
Longer than expected of course because, you know, internet.
But everything discussed here about bold new ideas, expanding on old ones but not relying on them for nostalgia purposes, going in new directions? That’s Last Jedi. It’s almost hypocritical to demand something so different, while rejecting the first time they did it.
@@edgarjacksby1402 That's sorta the issue with the Last Jedi. We already have 6 years of distance from it and I have yet to see any shift in broader community sentiment around it. There's nothing wrong with "new", but when you do new and it's clearly awful, people are going to wish you just stayed with the old formula that worked. The best analogy I can give is from Yahtzee Croshaw,
"It's like a restaurant selling Octopus Burgers and everyone hates them. So they take the octopus out of the burger and everyone says 'Yes! These are great! I love these please make more!" Then the restaurant owner asks "Okay, people like it. So how do we work the octopus back into the burgers?" People would rather have a well made, tasty, if a bit familiar burger than try adding octopus to it for no other reason than "uniqueness"
Part of what made Thrawn such an awesome threat in Legends was the *reversal* of the Rebels vs Empire idea. The heroes were defending a galactic government that was spread to thin, while the far smarter Thrawn was essentially an insurgent faction that was outmaneuvering, using hit and run tactics, and trying to overthrow them. And it wasn’t with the ultimate goal of conquest, but of uniting the galaxy under a powerful leader to face a far bigger threat. And he DID have a Sith under his thumb. It was totally brilliant. This story would have been the perfect Sequel Trilogy, and throwing that idea away was the opening decision that doomed disney star wars. Soooooo sad. And so stupid
Well, you'd have to recast 3 main characters, so it would be a huge risk, naturally.
@@ChildrenOfRadiation make it an animated show. Boom! Use deepfake and/or AI for voices! Boom. And finally: recast fucking actors. Boom!
I would also add that Thrawn was actually smart without making the good guys dumb. It made Thrawn far more of a threat that he beat and outsmarted competent foes while in canon the New Republic seems dumb, idiotic and incompetent so I dont know if Thrawn outsmarting these idiots will be as impressive as lets say Bel Iblis a competent general not expecting what Thrawn's actual goal was while attacking Coruscant.
@@ontasbulent5709 it could be as impressive if Timothy was writing him in Shows, but its not the case.
@@ChildrenOfRadiation To clarify, if the sequel Trilogy had essentially been Zahn’s Thrawn trilogy, I imagine it as taking place a few decades later. The New Republic has had time for the galaxy to actually enjoy a little peace, and Luke perhaps has some reasonably competent students, but most elements of the Trilogy could still have worked with fairly mild adjustments. NOW of course, it is WAY too late to try
This video is a better sequel to your own video than the sequel trilogy was to the originals
Not a high bar.
lol
@@TheCloserLook Like limbo with a bar on the Moon.
@@oscarwillimott9296precisely.
I cannot agree more
I’m going to note something I felt when you asked the question: “What do Star Wars fans want?” You described Star Wars fans wanting old ideas and characters they already love, and truthfully, my mind did go to those places. But I also remember when Episode 7 was announced, I was excited to see what new things Star Wars would do. I was excited by the idea of new concepts and ideas and stories to fall in love with. When I got the Original trilogy again, I said, “Okay fine, you can have one, but now we need something fresh and original, where are you using our knowledge of the originals to push us to?” Then we got the Last Jedi. It was… it had new ideas. But overall executed incredibly sloppily. Then RoS came out, and I found myself craving old Star Wars stuff instead of new, fresh ideas and characters. These movies tended to rehash the original trilogy, and they failed. Why would I trust Star Wars to do new fresh ideas when they can’t seem to manage old ideas? I don’t want old ideas I’ve seen before. But at least those ideas had a vision that can be followed, and thus a framework that I can put ANY trust in. And I don’t even have that trust in that anymore.
In short: Why trust Star Wars anymore?
Great point!
in truth the original trilogy was 2 good movies .. the 3rd was a Sunday morning reheat of the week's leftovers
give it back to George Lucas or give him the Kevin Feige role for all Star Wars franchise so he can keep it somewhat coherent and has a direction. That’ll win enough of my trust to give them another shot.
@@amrelarcher8990yeah Lucas was responsible for the horrible prequel trilogy though. It will be funny when the kids that grew up with these last three movies have nostalgia for them and start treating them like they’re actually good in a few years lol
@@lt_johnmcclane It's decent compared the latest hot-garbage.
I honestly never considered that the Luke v. Kylo fight was supposed to be filled with tension. During my one-and-only viewing of TLJ, Luke's different haircut, lack of grey hair, and possession of the exact same lightsaber we saw destroyed on-screen a few minutes earlier immediately tipped me off that he was some kind of illusion, and for me the whole fight just came off as Luke smugly and invincibly toying with Kylo (which he was).
Yeah, that entire setup was so obvious upon first viewing.. but homeboy here couldn’t figure out that Anakin becomes Vader and apparently needed a 2nd viewing of Obi-Wan to follow that Reva is (!SPOILER!) the lil black girl depicted in the show’s opening sequence😂 ..things so obvious and spelled out for even the most media illiterate audiences that we shouldn’t be surprised if he found that Kylo-Luke fight to be suspenseful. I actually generally agree with his thesis but find it peculiar that someone so passionate about dishing out writing advice is clearly in the lowest 5% for being able to read and follow the language of cinema.. but, giving the bloke my benefit of the doubt, he was probably just day dreaming about Admiral Thrawn or Order 66 and too distracted to follow such basic story telling
@@1bitMy guess is that he zoned out during the show because the show was so poor his brain had to turn off to preserve any semblance of sanity, causing him to miss the obvious. Can’t catch what you totally miss when zoned out, lmao.
In all seriousness, I disliked the Kenobi show so much that I actually tried to disassociate while watching it with the family. Such an atrocity can only be accomplished via complete incompetence or malicious intent.
That was exactly my experience as well. Except I was completely baffled that Luke died anyway
"one-and-only" people do tend to miss a few things the first time around
Jake Skywalker would toy snidely with his nephew, Luke would not.
Disney ignores the most important line in all of Star Wars; “You’ve taken your first step into a larger world.” They do not expand on the tech, the worlds, characters, the galaxy.
In trying to avoid anything to do with the prequels, they have failed to do the kind of world building that those movies do pretty well.
Except for when they do, then fanboys hate it. It's time to admit the problem isn't entirely Disney.
Andor is the story of Star Wars. Idk wtf you are on about. The problem is that it isn't a bunch of wand waving teenagers saying quipy bs.
@@thatguyseb8824 maybe you forgot that there is entire expended universe beforehand that did everything mentioned above and sequels are prime example of how not to do it (changing back the status quo to same as during originals aka Rebels vs "empire"/order, mostly same starships as during originals and same old organisation of everything).
@@thatguyseb8824 Their changes amounted to "somehow, Palpatine has returned," tank-tread speeders, dead people in space flying like Mary Poppins and incredible Force powers coming with no effort nor teaching about the philosophies that the originals were built on. In the sequels, every Jedi and Sith were morons for not magically figuring out everything a day after learning the Force existed and every military wasted its resources on ships when they could just build a couple of hyperspace missiles to wreck the largest fleets in a single shot.
It wasn't an expansion, it was a demolition by people who clearly hated the franchise.
The foundation for the franchises future was already there. That was the original trilogy. The problem is Disney deconstructed it instead of building on it.
Full on demolition derby with every character they could toss in there.
It worse, they deconstruct it only to end up rebuilding it again exactly like before but just with their own OCs.
Not to mention George Lucas' outline for the sequel trilogy.
They could've just literally copied and adapted Star Wars legend into canon, and the franchise would've infinitely better reception from audiences & still be well regarded/popular.
Instead they did everything wrong to turn all the passionate OG fans away from the franchise.
🎯
One big problem that most movies like Star Wars and Marvel's also falls into is the budget, they dump so much money, and I mean MUCH, that they can't risk with something "new" or more adult because they could cut their profits and end up with a loss... For new and different stuff to come to light movies will need to cut back on the costs, so even if it bombs the loss is not crippling
As it is only proven profitable IP and stories are green lit, also only PG-13 because cutting out a whole age group can cost a lot... But "cheaper" projects can afford it, like Deadpool did with it's 60 million budget, that amount is easy to get back even if it doesn't do well enough for a sequel (which it did with it's 780 million box office)
Modern trends raise the price tags a lot, too. "We can't waste this big-shot star on a movie that might not go so well. And we need this big-shot star's name on the cover to make it sell well" for one thing. Then there's the "blowing the whole budget on the effects" issue that some movies have. Then there's the horror of a Disney movie "only" breaking even, which has historically proven to be horrifying to executives. And so they keep trying to make explosions using nothing but water, sugar, and baking powder.
That's why I think making another animated show is a good idea, not only because they have been way better on average, but because they have had a relatively consistent vision, and has been willing to take risks that benefited them a lot.
You need to be able to “kill your darlings” so there are actual stakes in the story. Ned’s death in GOT was a good thing for the story because up until then he was arguably the main protagonist . Nobody expects your protagonist to die like that. But what it did was increase everyone’s emotional investment in the story by showing that nobody is safe. When a character is in a dangerous situation, they’re not just protected by plot armor. When Mando or Asoka is fighting someone I know with absolute certainty that they’re going to survive. That knowledge dramatically decreases my emotional investment in the fight.
If they gave Owen a son, that threat could have been and would have been so much scarier. If she then acted on her threat and killed him, it would have hit so hard and would have also grew Owen’s character for why he didn’t want Luke to join the Rebellion in A New Hope.
Wouldnt Luke in the Last Jedi also count as a “kill your darlings” example?
@@edgarjacksby1402 No, he was not that important for the actions of the movie, it would count, if he was killed in 5 or 6 and a new character takes over. Rey being killed in TLJ would be closer to that.
@@lisaruhm6681 he was pretty important to the plot of TLJ, he’s the reason rey isnt with the resistance at the start of the film, he’s important to kylos backstory, he saves the resistance at the end while also having his own arc surrounding the importance of failure and legacy
As a child, in the eighties and nineties, Star Wars was such a massive inspiration for me. It filled me with excitement and wonder of what was possible with an overactive imagination. But ever since Episode 7, the franchise just makes me feel jaded and cynical.
If you like the current slate of Star Wars projects, that's fine. I'm happy for you, really I am. It just doesn't work for me anymore. I know at the end of the day, it's not real, it's just fiction, but to that ten-year-old me who ran from my real life problems by burying my head into those early stories, it meant a lot more to me than "just fiction".
I really love this and I hope Star wars will be what it once was. As a member of the Younger generation, I wasn't around when Star wars was at its peak, but it's aura and the legendary status still carried on through our parents. The current Star wars movies and series just don't inspire in that way. Nobody will sit in a Chair at the fire amd tell rheir children of when they saw The rise of Skywalker in the movies...
I grew up in the 90s and was exposed to Star Wars EARLY. I loved the franchise, had a dozen of those plastic lightsabers, I wanted to be a Jedi. Loved the prequels. I loved the clone wars cartoons.
But boy, the force awakens looked like a shot for shot remake in most of the movie.
The last jedi and rise of skywalker are the only 2 movies that I’ve ever slept through.
Long comment short If I were exposed to the sequels first I probably wouldn’t like it
I have the same feelings, except that I'm not happy for the people who like it... I don't understand how anyone can like it
I grew up in the 90s and grew up watching the movies. Episode 1 was the first midnight premiere never went to. Rise of Skywalker is one of 4 movies I have walked out before the ending.
I think it's just a consequence of growing up tbh
On the note of characters having plot armor; I'm in the middle of watching the clone wars show for the first time, and my stepdad asked me pretty much just that, how can anything happen if all the major players have plot armor? For one thing, the clone wars would regularly introduce new characters to the mix that were important and had genuinely uncertain fates, but every time r2d2 'died', I knew he was fine. What concerned me was seeing Anakins immediate reaction! They used his inevitable fall to the dark side brilliantly, every time a major character near him was in 'mortal peril', he'd quickly start spiraling and resorting to darth vaderesque tactics to make sure things work out, and he's usually rewarded for it! And the general story of more planets being brought to the republic alliance, even though we know the republic will inevitably reform into the empire; The secret tragedy playing out through the first 5 seasons is really gripping not in-spite of the known future of the characters, but BECAUSE we know! A really clever workaround!
Clone Wars was great- I remember watching it the night it came out on Cartoon Network.
As for *GOOD* Star Wars Stuff- Have you ever checked out the older novels? If not, give the X-Wing novels, The Thrawn Trilogy (and Duology that comes after) and I, Jedi a whirl. They are amazing books that I always, ALWAYS find myself coming back and reading over again. I grew up reading them (Dad had the X-Wing series and I, Jedi, my elementary had the Thrawn Trilogy), and each read they only become better.
In my eyes, the Thrawn Trilogy is what *should* have been 7, 8 and 9. Until films are made with stories of that quality, I don't think I'll watch any new ones.
Good writing doesn’t let you think plot armour exists. And if you’re that person, then you’re not going to enjoy a show/movie regardless
@@seen921 I'd counter that while good writing eliminates as many plot holes as possible (ideally leaving zero), if the underlying story is solid, it doesn't *have* to be perfect. Movies have a set amount of time to work in, and getting that right is doubly challenging. As an example, compared to the book, The Martian was a fun film, despite the holes they added in adapting it. (UHF comes to mind as an amazing but imperfect movie as well)
Star Wars films 1-6, while not perfect (esp 1-3), have an *actual, solid story* and *go somewhere*. I cannot say the same about 7 and 8, let alone 9, relative to the existing movies, let alone the books.
I hope that ramble makes a modicum of sense, and I wish you a wonderful day, wherever you are!
Dr. Strange 2 may have relied on people having seen WandaVision already to understand why Wanda went dark... But WandaVision was all about dealing with tlher traumas and by the end she had literally no reason to go dark anymore, she was healing, so its confusing either way.
It also doesn't change the fact that she was a nut from start to finish. Your sad times don't justify kidnapping. Nor does it mean you are a good person for realizing you are evil.
@@ryankelley5160 Arguably, it would've been a much stronger and more interesting story angle had she actually continued being a 'good' archetype or at least a 'grey' one after, knowing that what she did is damn near unforgivable and nothing she could do to fix it, other than just be better, or caution others with her tale and more closely scrutinize morality. With MoM it just becomes 'oh she's corrupted so she's pure evil now, there was no point to anything that happened before.'
I think connecting everything isn't that great of an idea. A big problem that I feel and I'm pretty sure a lot of people have with is that everything is /too/ connected. It makes the universe feel very small when everyone from different shows is somehow constantly meeting and running into each other. Not everything needs to be connected, and stories of the galaxy without needing to be connected to the main story would be great.
For example, the movie Solo, I felt like it was a pretty amazing movie. A great plot/story, amazing visuals, it felt like an amazing star wars story that was separate from the main movie. The biggest problem is making it a Han Solo movie. If it wasn't connected to Han Solo, and was a brand new character, it would've been amazing imo. (of course it couldn't be the kessel run tho huh? lol) Solo being Han Solo's backstory is what made the movie bad,that's the unfortunate part.
I like for star wars to seem big and and with various stories. I don't need to see everyone running into each other all the time. On top of that, man I don't want to watch a whole season of a show, then have to run over and watch another show to understand something. Feels like buying an ingredient from one store, then I have to run to another store to buy another ingredient. no thanks.
Exactly this, i was shocked when he this guy started asking for more connection, that is literally the opposite of what this franchise needs. Trying to connect everything is why the sequels disrespect the original characters so hard instead of just being isolated stories about new characters. Its the reason in The Mandalorian Grogu gets handed back to Din in-between seasons in a different show.
Salvaging Star Wars to the public eye will be very difficult, case in point with andor. Andor was an incredible show but only hardcore Star Wars fans watched it because of the franchises tarnished reputation
Andor wasn't watched because of over saturation, there's too many Star Wars shows, same with Marvel really.
The next star wars movie will make a fortune in the box office because of how long it has been since the last, it doesn't even need to be good
this is accurate. Ppl keep saying 'oh movies are dying' and then, when there are two big movies that AREN'T Marvel/Star Wars, they go fucking gangbusters (BarbenHeimer). We need to stop asking how we can breathe life back into these mega-IPs and realize that the simple fact is that ppl aren't ever gonna give a fuck about properties like this that just can't stop spraying their >300B juices all over us 6 times a year or whatever @@sphinxtheater
...None of you watched the entire video, did you?
@@kajamiletic3223Trust me, a meh premise would have been more than enough if the audience’s faith hadn’t been abused like Disney was an alcoholic father. Fact is that the trust in Star Wars that was carefully built up despite some mishaps was completely and utterly shattered over the course of nearly a decade. It’s essentially unsalvageable unless Disney commits to every Star Wars release from here out being a slam dunk with fewer releases to build something approaching hype. And seeing as there’s a Rey Palpatine movie on its way, we’re just in the final stages of seeing a titan of cinema die.
it might be an edge case, but my parents watched it and loved it despite only having seen the og trilogy a couple times, years back. I’m not really that into Star Wars but when I tuned in occasionally Andor seemed really well done!
I think Andor was just like a backdrop for a lot of really interesting meaningful writing. It’s not just a good Star Wars show, it’s a good show. The strength of it is in the points the writers are clearly insistent on making in the show, it absolutely has to be a rebel vs empire show. It resonates a lot with audiences of young people paying attention to the world and realizing how oppressive the systems we live under are. Sci-fi is always a great way to explore that. The interesting thing I think should’ve been focused on more in advertising is that it doesn’t center around light vs dark or jedis and sith it centers around downtrodden people who’ve suffered under a regime
Just challenge Disney’s monopoly with fan films, and support those instead of Disney, easy.
yeah but unfortunately it was about a boring character who nobody liked and who was introduced and killed off in rogue one. which was not a good film either.
I agree completely. Andor is about the birth of the Rebellion, from the point of view of those soldiers in Rogue One who compromised their integrity and their decency to do what had to be done. Discovering that Mon Mothma also had to cross those the lines made this even more powerful. Andor is Star Wars starring real, dimensional characters, not the lovable, but one-dimension, heroes like Luke and Han. No Star Wars show or movie more draws you into the world like Andor does.
@@garyg1705 I liked Rogue One and basically everything it did. It was one of the best Star Wars movies ever, bar none, because it really chomped into the Wars bit of Star Wars with a great, ground level perspective that only Republic Commando really did before that. I can't wait to watch Andor.
I was a die hard star wars fan. I left the theater after watching The Last Jedi angry and insulted. Then the media took a year telling me I'm an evil person because I didn't like their shitty movie.
Star Wars is dead to me. Let them rot. I don't care if they have a good show or movie. I don't financially support assholes
Hilarious that the Grand Space Opera story you suggested around 48:00 minutes...is something thats already been made. Its called the Yuuzhan Vong Wars and was a 20+ book series. It was awesome and many book readin star wars fans wanted that story to be the future of star wars. Having the sequel trilogy being based on a trilogy of books based around Thrawn. Then lead up to rhe Vong Wars.
I know im late here but i found it hilarious that your proposed story is very close to a story that was actually already made and could been adapted to the TV screen pretty easily.
Edit: Just got to where you mentioned the Yuuzhan Vont War. Respect and like this video even mote now.
Ahh, but you forget that Disney are such Masters of the Universe that they could easily bring something way better than the Vong War, by simply winging it. The only reason they failed is because we fans are toxic. Or something.
@@Sandlund93 I sincerely hope you're joking...
@@sortagoodish8491 I tried to make it as obvious as possible that I was joking.
The fact that the whole start of Star Wars began on a risk and that everyone thought was going to fail, just to become a huge success shows that the way Star Wars CAN be good is when it IS taking those huge risks.
I feel like Andor should be the blueprint for Disney on how to save SW. Not like they should make gritty SW or anything but stories that feel tangible with genuine scale & creators who care deeply about these characters.
Oooor we can just have a cameo of Anakin Skywalker. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
no guys the VolumeTM can still save it guys just 4 more movies by Filoni guys itll work please just trust him guys
Can you imagine? The day a Star Wars movie comes out which has been made with love, and directed and written by professionals who know and respect the franchise, and there’s a cohesive story being told. That day will come eventually and people will go absolutely wild. Andor has kept Disney Star Wars just barely above water in my eyes and I think there is a clear opportunity for them to make a much needed shift
@@anonymous-hz2un "I saw Chewbacca and I clapped!"
“It broke new ground!”
Andor isn't really about a guy fighting a big evil Empire. That's just the backdrop. The context of Star Wars in general, really. Andor is about how a rebellion begins and how it operates. Andor himself just drags the camera with him as we watch that story. And it tells the story of how a rebellion begins and operates better than the cartoon with a similar premise.
It is imo an excellent word-building series. I don't care about omg kenobi, like obviously seeing characters that im fond of is gonna make me watch it but not necessarily like it. It sucks that views are what counts and not quality because I love futuristic anti-fascist propaganda, using a character as just a random someone that wanted to get involved giving birth to the hope of an entire rebellion.
I would like to see them do a show like Andor about an Imperial Star Destoyer Captain who is a really good person and wants really badly for the Empire to be a force of good and tries to be just that. Let the character see and cope with the fact that the Empire is not like that or maybe even that a lot in the Empire want to be but the rotten apples making it impossible.
Still, after so many nostalgia baits and disappointments I'm not even trying to watch.
@@michawolinski314you really should though. Best SW TV series ever made
Yeah but look at it from the point of view of a casual audience just checking out the trailer. To them, it's gonna be 'just another Rebels vs Empire show'.
Okay, honestly, that idea about a Sith Lord becoming an Anti-Hero sounds so fun.
Imagine a Samurai jack sort of story in the Star Wars universe, where he goes around the galaxy, helping others when he can, but only when it benefits him in his goal for revenge or finding a mcguffin or whatever, his dog (that would actually be great).
“The possibilities are never ending.”
-Sonic Unleashed 2008
Funny… because Andor might reuse a premise, but the story had more depth than anything life action from Disney
The point you made about Star Wars and creativity in general is perhaps the best I've seen in any video essay about the decline of the Star Wars franchise. Looking back, George Lucas actively tried to make the films distinguishable from each other with new music, plots, and planets being shown in every movie...is it a coincidence that the highest-rated Star Wars film is the one with the least re-used assets?
Even with Coruscant, he showed us different parts of the city, and not just the Jedi Temple all the time
I find it weird too that no one seems to acknowledge this. The Prequel trilogy was so incredibly different from anything that came before, and sure, some people hated it, but the vast majority and especially kids who grew to be the next star wars fan generation absolutely loved it. I strongly believe that star wars wouldnt be close to be as big as it is now without the creative risks lukas took there.
I'm one of those kids who grew up with the prequel trilogy and I've always loved those films than the original trilogy. I always loved the expansive world-building it established much more than the narrower, character-focused OT. I had hoped Episode 7 would have taken the same path, giving us something totally new (they wiped out the EU after all) and was devastated after watching a film that was essentially a reskin of Episode 4. It really highlighted how bold Lucas was with Ep1 - I'd take a Jar Jar Binks any day over a remake of a film I've already watched.
@@DarkLordJabba Jar Jar is our lord and savior. We need more content of him! Only thing that would bring me back to the table. I wanna see what he was up to during the OT. xD
Following what fans want is not good - fanservice gets tired quick - but not respecting the source material is horrible. Do a good story that has respect for its roots. That's it.
And funnily enough, Disney is doing just the opposite. They try a lot of fan service but show no respect for the canon and break the lore on a regular basis.
They don’t do fan service to give fans what they want, they assume they know what fans want without listening to the fans, while actively insulting the fans, and assuming they know what the fans want whether they like it or not, which turns off the audience because what they actually wanted, something actually good, is not being provided. And anyone turned off by being insulted and provided absolute garbage, or who is not guzzling down the kool aid, gets insulted which ensures audience and merch sales decline and the whimpering death of the franchise where the new output tarnishes the old by association maki g Star Wars go from beloved classic to just a bunch of crappy films and shows with a couple of decent ones somewhere in the middle.
This is wrong, man. You get this perspective from being way the fuck too online with shit. You think that the hardcore SW fans are the ones that make or break a property's success or failure; this is incorrect. It's the general audience that does it, and they are absolutely doing as much focus-testing and outreach as they can to figure out what will optimally click all these boxes.
For this reason, the properties end up soulless and vapid and general audiences abandon them. But it isn't the woke agenda or alienating 'tHe rEaL fAnS', it's literally just them chasing trends to try and maximize engagement from a purely fiscal perspective. @@Nevyn515
Disney doesn't really do fan service, they only do fan disservice.
@@Nevyn515 Pretty sure Disney doesn't care what fans want, but rather wants to force them(no pun intended) to like what its executives want, hence another Rey Kennedy movie.
One of the amazing things about Captain America: Civil War was how it juggled so many( almost a dozen) heroes and none of them seemed short changed . They all got moments of importance in the movie.
Including characters that they introduced (that version of) in that film (like black Panther and Spider-Man) and characters that were only in one version of the two scripts that they considered using (like Ant-Man and the aforementioned Spider-Man). Basically, the script was being made before Sony Marvel alliance was finalized and it was decided to use the version of the script that had Spider-Man in it once the deal was finalized.
I started watching it because my wife won't get rid of Disney+. I was like, "I don't care about Andor because I know he dies in Rogue One, but eh, let's check it out." The first episode was dense and I didn't get into it until the end of episode 2. I don't exactly remember, but it was around when Stellan Skarsgard came on screen. Once I saw what they were trying to do, I was all aboard. I actually thought the day-in-the-life aspects of living under the Empire was fun. You see office work, intelligence conferences, bureaucracy, that one guy goes to his space apartment with his mom, Mon Mothma riding in her space limo, that one guy running a space junkyard, Stellan running a space antiques shop as a front for spy operations, that one lady running a space mechanic shop, Andor vacationing in a space hotel in space Miami, etc. It all felt so real. On top of all of that, you have a smartly-written spy drama set in Star Wars. It was a "rebels against the Empire" like you said, but it wasn't space battles and lightsabers and the same stuff we've seen before. No Jedi, no Force, no Darth Vader. It was only tangentially connected to other things.
Carry that into other genres set in the Star Wars universe.
What if there was a pod racing TV show? Like, The Fast and The Furious or Gran Turismo set in Star Wars?
It really pains me that Disney didn't adopt Lucas' idea for a sequel trilogy instead. The idea of the New Republic struggling to survive not in the face of another big bad empire like you said, but rather in the face of utter chaos and disorder. It would have given us the breath of fresh air that Andor gave us with its grittiness and realism, but it also would have set a clear vision of the future, with fan favourites such as Maul and Luke to excite the fans (Lucas had plans for Maul to survive past ep.6), and taking the franchise in a bold new direction.
I think bringing Maul pass episode 6 would be stupid idea. His story ended perfectly with Rebels (all tho I am not fan of that show). I think the best would be using Yuzang-wong invasion from old expanded universe.
@@madkoala2130 Rebels was made after Disney bought Star Wars so it being a good end for the character isn't really relevant to Lucas's idea being good or bad, as at that time Maul would've just been a character who was believed dead in episode one and was present in the background during the clone wars era.
@@madkoala2130 I'm pretty sure Lucas didn't plan on having Maul in Rebels or the Clone Wars, so it wouldn't be like they milked him as much as they could. I think his character perfectly suits the context after ep 6 since he was promised great power by Sidious but had that taken away after being defeated by Obi-Wan. So 1 he hates the Jedi with a passion and 2 with the power vaccuum left after the fall of the Empire he would have seen it as the perfect chance to capitalise. I'm not saying they didn't treat him well in the Clone Wars or Rebels, but I do think a sequel trilogy with him as the main antagonist was an equally viable option, and done right it would have been 1000x better than what we got. I do think the Yuuzhan Vong invasion is a good alternative tho.
Lucas didn’t intend to have Maul in Rebels, true, but bringing him back in Clone Wars was 100% his idea. Filoni even says he didn’t agree with the idea but Lucas had the final say and demanded it (likely because he was going to use him in his film).
Despite Cassian Andor being a minor character in Rogue One, I was interested in the show immediately because I felt that Rogue One was the first movie to make the Empire feel like a real, oppressive threat
I was chatting with one of my friends and I ended up randomly suggesting something I think would be a really cool idea for a Star Wars movie or perhaps a miniseries, we follow a rookie podracer pilot making his name in the sport, focusing on the racing, the closer to the feel that the Speed Racer movie gave during its racing scenes the better, and staying on the Speed Racer idea, playing with the political Intrigue of the dirty sportsmanship that happens in the Pod races, not to mention the criminal and political interests that try to rig the outcomes of the races.
rookie mistake, you made a story in a sci-fi/star wars setting when everybody knows that the only good stories fixate on the fact that "this is a futuristic sci-fi/star wars world". no protocol droid earnestly failing to help the main cast. no trash bin on wheels (or even a trash bin wheel, write that one down). no cameo from teenage anakin somehow having time away from jedi training to meet and inspire the protagonist because he won one podrace on planet Bumfuck that one time
there's not even a single lightsaber or planet-destroying super-weapon of the week. unwatchable garbage (/s)
Disney bought Star Wars because they thought just slapping the title "Star Wars" on anything they made was guaranteed money. They thought they'd just gotten the golden goose. They had no idea how wrong they were.
I think you miss the mark: the problem isn't giving fans what they want. The problem is not understanding the actual underlying desire.
When people ask for "Faster pigeons" Disney says "they want pigeons, but faster" when what the fans are actually saying is "I want the thing the pigeons represent - the ability to communicate - but faster"
Creative leadership is about listening to the desires undergirding the words of your fan base. The Manolorian worked because it brought so much of what defines Star Wars, but in a fresh way.
And, the thing with being a good leader is that, the devoted will follow you, and the shmoes will still enjoy it. This is something Andor did - so many reviews talked about how being a Star Wars fan made it even better, but wasn't a requirement.
Yep
And they are doing it by breaking the pigeons wings to make them more aero dynamic 😂
Yeah I've heard so many calls for expansion of the universe but all they ever want to do is expand on stuff we've already seen and characters we already know
The Yuzhon Vong arc would have been such a fantastic direction for the franchise. Maybe not as the first sequence after Disney bought Lucasfilm, but once the nostalgia was sufficiently quenched, it would have been the perfect breath of fresh air. Its hard to think of a more novel, thematically distinct plotline than the extragalactic jihad of force-immune, tech-hating masochists with living serpent battlestaffs and organic spaceships that were powered and protected by micro black holes. Don't think I'll ever be able to forgive Disney for decannonizing them.
If Disney was smart they'd have adapted the Thrawn trilogy first. Followed by the revelation of the vong.
Easily could have gotten two full trilogies under such a plan.
I think that the Vong story line is what we would have got had they made Lucas’s sequel trilogy rather then throw it in the trash. I also love the idea that Palpatine know about the Vong, and that is some of the reason he wanted power so much beyond being a Sith, and why he built multiple Death Stars.
@@marks2807 iirc George Lucas had a plan of bringing Darth maul back as a Shadowy crime Lord. Working to destabilize the New Republic.
@@marks2807the death Star would have been the most useless vehicle possible against the Vong, Single shot extremely visible and slow wind-up means it would lose all effectiveness to a single coralskipper, their entire weakness making them defeatable was SPREAD-fire to use their defenses to aim-assist, or SILENT shots undetected by them and remote detonated.
Furthermore I would argue the Vong Arc is the ONE(well technically Yevetha and Killick would be hard too) arc Disney would NEVER do, and for good reasons, budget & lack of kid friendlyness being the primary, and I say that as Someone who read and loved almost all of Legends.
Now what they should have done... Adapt "Galaxy of Horrors" for Disney plus, Thrawn... Sure, but we shouldn't have even HAD a sequel trilogy tbh, they should have looked at what they have and made Star Wars versions... Imagine if Nat Geo got together with Scientists and they made a picturesque world with some mascot animal in a David Attenborough documentary that went in depth on a new worlds ecology, telling some normal SW story in the background, then a Diner's, Drive-in's, and Dives, doing the same thing, then eventually, tell the background story's across those series in a movie.
I can relate to you so much. I had no idea Andor was going to be so good until I actually watched it. I was very reluctant to watch it, but once I saw the first episode, I was hooked.
I’d like to see a story about it being a bad thing for some decent people when the Empire falls. It can’t have been ALL bad, right? Maybe they find there are bigger reasons why the Empire needs to change. But that’s something we never see. Instead it was that the Rebels won, and immediately, 30 years later, there they are in the same exact situation as the original trilogy. Which seemed odd to me.
I absolutely loved Andor. For me personally, I feel it’s the best writing and deepest realism Star Wars ever had. The franchise NEEDED this show to get massive popularity that would make Star Wars execs pay attention. But people had low expectations, and sadly you are right about it essentially being the same premise as most stories in Star Wars cannon. For ME, that’s totally fine, because it was *better* than the others, and in my opinion it was when they “nailed” it. Essentially, it took the old premise and blew all its predecessors out of the water. But for so many casuals, they won’t give it a chance.
i hope that star wars can fix itself as a franchise. i'd been a massive star wars fan for as long as i could remember. it meant a lot to me. and force awakens may not have been a masterpiece, but it had enough potential that i was so hopeful and excited to see where it went. even post the last jedi i was still holding on to hope like "this can work guys!! :-)" to the point where i went to see rise of skywalker ON MY BIRTHDAY. tros was a massive blow to my enjoyment of star wars and then the franchise being given the mcu treatment just slowly but surely killed any joy i felt for it. and it makes me sad, because i want to be able to say that i genuinely love star wars again :-( as of right now though, i kinda just pretend that there was only ever six films, one spin-off, and one show.
I totally relate to this. And yes I admit I went to the early access first showing to all 3 sequels, but was increasingly disappointed after each one. At this point, the damage is beyond repair in my opinion.
6 movies, and maybe one spinoff movie, and maybe one spinoff show is all that’s left. But it’s a great story, and it’s timeless, so I’ve realized it’s all I need.
Until force is a female, we'll never have a good star wars production..
I wish I had had your optimism. I left TFA nervous for reasons that weren't totally clear to me, and then TLJ destroyed something deep inside that will never return.
I haven't watched any of the films, even the classics, since that day. My massive collection of EU novels, crinkled from frequent rereads, is gathering dust in some box. And the fact that I don't care makes me very sad.
What about the animated series like The Clone Wars? That one was really good (especially from Season 3 onwards).
I'm sorry, I was basically done after Ruin Jackson's abortion abomination experiment. The Skywalker bloodline was completely assassinated by malevolent forces at Disney. Malicious transformation into an unrecognizable mass made of failure whose flesh wrapper is all that resembles the man that once was.
Sorry Star Wars, it was nice knowing you, but what you've become is horrifying.
There is one way to save Star Wars. Have the fanbase and tertiary artists and game developers work their thing on the Extended Universe. Plain and simple. Some of these people have been fans since A New Hope. They understand the media toes to teats, are creative, have the utmost respect for the characters-- and they are hardcore lore masters. All the things which other fans want from SW creators.
If there is anything to salvage from the wreck.
It's interesting that they're so adverse to taking creative risks even though they're very well poised to absorb the loss if it fails (just see any of the flops they've had recently) in which case they can learn from
I think what this universe needed was 3 things. A vision of the future, a bold journey into the unknown, and to remember not what we love about star wars, but why we fell in love in the first place. Not every project needed to be great, or innovative. There is plenty room for content that plays it safe. The important part is a healthy balance. The problem is that star wars burned their goodwill
I liked Rey in the first sequel, she and Finn both had so much incredible potential as characters and Disney threw it in the trash instead of putting the work in
I liked Rey in the second sequel, the whole Palpatine stuff is what kinda ruined it all for me
Single greatest problem with Rey is that she was never allowed to fail. I'm not even talking about losing a fight, I mean fail in any meaningful way because of her need to grow into something or overcome some major baggage. Concept was awesome, execution was complete garbage.
@@racool911 I feel like you don't need to throw out the whole sequel trilogy, just the last movie. The big issue is that the trilogy doesn't really change anything, largely because the last movie just had no substance to it at all.
Combine that with a few Lucas-style film edits (like the Luke child murder flashback being redone) and you might just have a chance.
We need another Order 66
I agree that they butchered the potential of all three of the sequels protagonists as well as the antagonists, but most of us also overlooked the red flags in the first one because of nostalgia
This had a lot of takes I haven’t heard from any other place and a couple I didn’t agree with. Thank you for your wonderful explanations, they were brilliant to hear and you really expanded what I thought the scope of the future of Star Wars was.
You wrote everything I'm thinking! I'm trying to wrap my head around the new-to-me idea that "Kenobi" and "Boba Fett" were made for the fans, and that a casual viewer would have trouble understanding why those shows matter.
And that it has to be a priority for Disney to attract new Star Wars fans. (This reminds me a lot of the Bud Light marketing executive (Alissa?) who wanted to attract "young drinkers," because the existing customers are too old and "fratty." Remind me again, who are the people who made it a number one selling beer? Who are the people who made Star Wars, Marvel etc so valuable?)
If I am a person who knows very little about whatever franchise, and someone I know is a huge fan and knows absolutely everything about it - and that person tells me the new movie or TV show is the best thing ever, I would be inclined to give it a try. But if the existing fans don't like it, why would I as a casual viewer want to waste my time on something the fans say is poorly written, and disrespectful to the source material?
I think we're all pretty sick of that. I hated it when they did it to my favorites, so I know how fans of something I don't care about feel and I empathize with them.
And it would be difficult to find somebody whose favorite franchise hasn't been "updated for modern audiences" including Jane Austen movies and Snow White etc.
Have you seen this channel's 3 yo video on "How to kill a franchise - Star Wars"? It's one hour 45 minutes, but if you go to Part 4, (it starts around one hour six minutes and there are timestamps in the description,) he explains how he would've made a sequel trilogy and the story is excellent!
@@dronesclubhighjinks Yes, I’ve seen the Star Wars ending he wrote, it’s amazing!
I think my main disagreement (I’d have to rewatch the video for some of my minor ones) was that some of the future Star Wars ideas he dismisses do have potential even for new fans; it’ll depend on the skill of the execution.
Personally, I think it’s a delicate balance between exciting old fans and attracting new ones. Obviously you want your fans to love the new product but you need to put some effort into attracting new fans. Frankly, the shareholders in the company will always want to grow profits and you get that with more people consuming. Sure, you could make something only for your fans and count on that market (and with some projects that might be best!), but with the money that goes into a major blockbuster and the expected returns, it’s expected to draw on general audiences too. I really liked his comments in the video on how it’s about creating tomorrow’s old fans; basically, investing in the future. Of course, go too far in the other direction and it’s as you said: the fans hate it, tell everyone not to see it, and you don’t get those new fans. Also, you don’t want to anger your old fans so much you lose them. So you still must cater to them.
My opinion is that at the end of the day, old and new fans will respond to incredible, creative stories and creating those should be the ultimate priority. I think Star Wars would really benefit from some exciting, off-the-wall, new ideas, but that execution of those will be key.
Oh please... star wars fans would have griped no matter what the plan was. And... I'll be shocked if all 3 of those movies actually get made.
Not wrong
What I keep seeing about the Andor bit is that people don't watch it because "who cares about a show about a guy who died in Rogue One"?
I think with a lot of shows and movies, the key to selling it is to set up the show/movie so that people can watch the finished movie/pilot episide or the trailer and walk away with a compelling elevator pitch that sounds novel, interesting, or culturally relevant. If you walk away and try to tell someone else to watch the show with "it's got that guy you don't remember and the rebels fight the empire but I swear it's really good", that's not exactly a great salespitch.
I think that's why Hollywood likes spinoffs, on some level. If you can name drop an existing character, it makes that second-hand elevator pitch easier because you have that shorthand.
Something that I have wanted to see for ages is a star wars show that is told from the empires perspective, it would be revealing, like all quiet on the western front. This would really give a look into the empire that people liked from andor, but also paint a picture of the lowly stormtroopers or infantry that most people haven't seen.
Even though we got Andor that really grounded part of the Empire we need to remember that Star Wars is a fairy tale. That is to say that when it comes down to it Empire = Evil. And muddying the water too much is taking the Star Wars out of the DNA of the product.
There are greyscales in Star Wars, but the core of the story presented is that of Good vs Evil
I personally find all quiet on the western front super boring
@@josendradotry reading Storm of Steel, it’s almost the complete opposite of All Quiet on the Western Front in terms on how they viewed WW1 and war in general from the side of the Germans.
I was thinking about writing a story in the middle of the Empire’s reign through the eyes of a disgraced Imperial Admiral sent to garrison a backwater midrim planet at first hating his lowly position to later on in the story build the planet up to a strong and autonomous state that gives the Empire a logistical stepping stone to be able to assert its dominance over the Outer Rim.
I love the For the Empire videos on youtube.
Congratulations on making 1 million subscribers!!! This was a great movie-length video to celebrate that milestone, so the next time you make a video about Star Wars, I would love to hear your thoughts on Ahsoka once you finish watching that. Maybe you could even compare and contrast it with Andor from yesteryear. October 1, 2023, 5:06pm
I think that for me, it is the grand scope that puts me off. I like it when a movie or a season of a show wraps itself up at least a bit. With Mando, every episode of the first season was a short little story, maybe spilling over into two episodes. And the first seasons goal was both simple (protect/deliver Baby Yoda), with the rest of the galaxy just being in the background. It worked so well. When in S3 the baddies in Mando show up in this big war room, I lost a bit of interest. Or with the very well written Legends books by Karen Traviss, the Republic Commando series is fun, and turns more grandiose in the 2nd and 3rd books. But the first one was just an extremely isolated story set on some backwater world, with a villian which could actually get characterization as he was just a guy, the protagonists were different and got their time in the lime light, then it ended and it was done.
To be perfectly honest, I'd never expect nor want SW to have huge connected build-ups like Marvel.
If anything, Hollywood has proven to us time and again that trying to replicate the success of Marvel phases 1-2-3 can only lead to failure.
I'm convinced SW's success lies in creating carefully crafted trilogies and solo movies, with a focus on quality rather than quantity. Then yes, if you must, we could have a few TV shows to complement the movies with smaller connected or unique stories.
But no grandiose cinematic universe please.
tbh hearing your pitch/vision of what the next 20 years of Star Wars should’ve been almost brought a tear to my eye😢
Just imagine how wonderful that would’ve been. Too bad that’s not the case.
Great video as always👏🏾👏🏾
And that's the problem though. Because I heard the pitch and was like "wow... Another Star Wars jedi show from the perspective of a normal ass human dude. I'll probably skip" People complain about Ahsoka getting too much prominance but she's at least a colorful alien to add some variety. I get that humans are just easier and more relatable but Padme was also a normal ass human and at least they took the time to give her her own unique scifi culture and aesthetic. Same goes for Andor. Luke, Anakin, Revan, Obi Wan, Cal, Kanan etc... They all kinda just blend together culturally and aesthetically.
I heard a few things about what the Disney sequel trilogy was supposed to be, and if they had gone along with at least some of their original ideas, it would have been so much more interesting meanwhile the storyline would be the same.
It also had an explanation on why Rey was so good with her saber. It was built for her own already developed fighting style. It looked like a quarterstaff, which is the weapon we see her using at the start.
oh dude this video was so good! It made me realise why I love Star Wars so much! all these clips, while oftentimes from properties I dont realy care that much about awakened my imagination again. They made me realise endless possibilities of SW universe is what made me into who I am. Listening to your ideas, imagining things the way they could be in the future gave me hope that so little of the possible stories have been told so far! And as much as I dislike the force awakens, its trailers still makes me shiver! Kylo igniting his crossguard lightsaber, his mysterious appearance is what makes me think it doesnt matter whether I we like given story or not. What matters is the stories are keep getting told! And there will always be somebody who will enjoy them. Not everything is for everyone, and all that is necessary is that people with vision and passion get to do what they feel like doing, not because of political beliefs, but because of their inner need! And we dont need much! Just look at "the creator" and what it managed to accomplish with merely 80 million budget! Thanks for sharing your ideas!
Honestly in my opinion, the only way Star Wars as a franchise could truly evolve and make Andor-quality stories that are unique and deeply written, would be if Disney was no longer in charge of it. Disney as a corporation is TERRIFIED of risk, and creativity is inherently risky. Hopefully we'll get little gems like the Mandalorian's first 2 seasons or Rogue One, but it will probably continue to be among a slog of mediocrity.
They are terrified of risk and still let Rian Hackson take a hatchet to the franchise. They don't even know what is safe anymore other than throwing characters people remember together and twirling some lightsabers around like glowsticks.
How would Disney ever no longer be in charge of it?
Honestly Rogue One was worse than Andor. Especially non-sense Hammerhead corvette ramming 2 ISDs and destroying them while said ISDs did nothing. Or Jyn Erso beating the shit out of stormtroopers with her bare hands. Armored. Stromtroopers. Or the blind cultist guy who somehow survived attack of Impire's Elite Soldiers💀, or low-powered shots that were invented in RO and would be so useful during episode IV.
I think a big problem was essentially the Legends idea. over many years people invested a lot of time and money in books and media if the post episode VI era where lucas was more careful about permitting writing pre episode IV at least until the prequals were done. This meant when the post VI media was scraped people already had in their minds what that era should look like so when the sequals came along and did something entirely different it didnt sit well, It may have been better to jump forward past an ammount of that media and try not to retcon an ammount of it or move to an entirely new era maybe referencing past characters.
It wasn't even that the Disney sequels did something entirely different from the old EU.
It's that what the Disney sequels made absolutely zero sense from the larger story arc at play. It was an illogical and detached mess from what happened in the story before. The new order just "shows up" "somehow" and are completely overwhelming and even more evilerer. Then palpatine shows up after the new order faces an embarrassing defeat and he has an even bigger undefeatable fleet and he's even more evilerererer than ever.
No building of the New Republic and the struggles they'd naturally face as a new government trying to stabilize the galaxy. Dealing with imperial remnants that have no means of being overwhelming but have military assets that are fully capable of concentrated and extreme damage. This was the exact brilliance of the thrawn trilogy.
It's a factor, in various ways. It's one thing to spurn the EU. But if you do, you'd damn well better make sure you create something better, something so good that people will thank you for the upgrade. True for anything. This wasn't: there was a nostalgia trip, a meta-parody and... idk what ep9 is supposed to be.
Anyway, they could've taken the EU stories and would've had a better product I suspect. Would save them from the current batch of writers?
It's a big part of the issue in one sense. The EU already existed and had proven that these things can be done. But also...i think the bigger issue is that the EU did it _better_, indisputable. Not every individual book/comic/game was better... But most of them were. And the overall story, across the galaxy, was bigger, more detailed, made more sense, had more characters we love, had more new characters we came to love, dared more, explored more, etc. So hearing that the Disney movies and shows were retconning the EU, it makes you expect that it must be better than what we already had or it wasn't worth it. And I went into the new trilogy ready to be surprised and awed. I had no problem with any of the things they had talked about doing and I was ready to take them in their own merits - after all, people forget that the Fandom was used to people picking and choosing continuity and headcanon as they liked, used to multiple authors and some level of plot hole. We were used to different time periods and main characters. If ever there should have been a Fandom that could have been won over by Disney, it should have been star wars. I think most of us were skeptical but willing - no, eager - to be convinced. And Disney...really let us down. The one thing star wars fans are good at is ranking how good the various versions we get of this universe are. It s no surprise that we almost instantly ranked this latest version as sub-par. The best thing they could have done was sit down, suck it up, and write a better plan. Plot everything. Do research. Since they absolutely are stealing from the EU, own up to it and take the best bits. Commit to your new universe. Ugh.
And that’s why force awakens succeeded where the others failed. They had the guts to kill off Han.
Please. Force Awakens was a remake of A New Hope. It was the ultimate in conservative storytelling.
The way Andor told it's story was definitely brand new for Star Wars, and like Ebert once said: "It's not about the story, it's about how the story is told". So i think the minutes spent telling us how the story is nothing new is a total disservice to the show and future SW stories that could be told with this new found maturity.
I think you need to watch more non-genre movies and shows or something because for having this large of a pop culture centric RUclips channel (which I have subscribed to for years) and not having Tony Gilroy's name be enough to get you excited for Andor is definitely a bad sign. I remember getting fellow movie nerds to immediately flip their interest level to positive just by telling them Tony is Andor's showrunner.
Hollywood is caching in on nostalgia faster than they are creating content to be nostalgic for.
Most spot on quote in the video.
Just imagine how cool Andor would've been if we had never heard of the character and then after the series they had released Rogue One and blown everybody's mind.
When you talked about a 5+ year story it reminded me of Babylon 5 & how the creator had a 5-year plan for the story with outs if any of the characters wanted to leave the show for any reason.
At 1:17:00 I think that's something I liked about Rogue One, all the characters had no plot armor, so there was a tension that they could die, and they did
i think the absolute perfect example of giving fans what they want is robert jordan’s wheel of time book series. so many times, i was like ‘rand stop being an idiot, just do this!’ but then he would proceed to mess up and deal with the consequences of his actions. it was always heartbreaking at the moment, but it also always built up to amazingly crafted moments later on, where rand would redeem himself and show how much he had changed.
funny to read that here. I'm reading the Wheel of time for the first time right now. (I'm at "the Shadow rising" currently). It's nice to have that longterm perspective.
But I think that approach is pretty dangerous, because I find the Characters to be so incredibly unsypathetic and idiotic sometimes, that its really killing my investment.
@@dietrichvonaken1222 trust me i know the feeling haha. perrin especially is a struggle in the series, but rand ends up being my favorite character, especially in the last few books. but then again, robert jordan has never been known to put much effort into bringing in new readers. i had to give the series four full attempts before i managed to finish it, but it’s my favorite series of all time now that i have. even the epic level of stormlight archives doesn’t compare
Incredibly bold of you to use "giving fans what they want" and "wheel of time" in this day and age.
Personal opinion, but Perrin and Matt made the book series for me
@@rl4305 absolutely adored matt
I ain’t gonna lie. Andor season 2 having an episode following a janitors perspective (assumably at the Jedi Temple) of Order 66 actually sounds like fire. Would watch.
[an episode following a janitors perspective]
An enjoyable montage of brooming up and carting off destroyed furniture, wall/ceiling/floor debris as well as also plenty of mopping up blood stains and collecting body parts all over the place.
Then arguing to be paid overtime and danger pay. Well, that part probably won't happen.
@@Atheist7
I can imagine a breaking bad/ better call Saul esque sequence of the cleaner cleaning up at the start of of an episode lol
@@thecalmclone2813LMAO!!!!!!!
I've seen all the Breaking Bad episodes except for the last 7. Haven't seen that.... film that they made, either.
Haven't seen any "Better Call Saul" yet.
That's supposed to be really good too. Saul was great in B.B.!!!
P.S. Also in "Tim And Eric, Awesome Show, Great Job"!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@TheCloserLook What is the music you use in your videos? I’ve watched many of your videos and have enjoyed the music in your videos alongside your commentary but I haven’t seen you put the music you use in your description sadly :(
Good video. I appreciate a lot of your points. Some of them I've heard from others, or something very close to anyway. I see a lot of people making similar comments/critiques of things like "can't always just please the fans" or "do something new and bold". And while those are potentially good ideas, they are not really the issue. Book of Boba Fett wasn't bad because it had Boba Fett. It was bad because the story was awful and the character of Boba Fett was a 180 from what we had seen previously. It's pretty obvious Mando was supposed to be Boba Fett as some point. It's impossible for us to see him in that show and be able to reconcile him from the OG. Same with Obi-Wan. Same with Luke. These characters are SO fundamentally different from what we know, with no explanation as to why, and no compelling story. That is a huge factor in what is wrong with modern Star Wars and Star Trek. Forget being bold and different. Forget pleasing the fans. WRITE A GOOD STORY WITH GOOD CHARACTERS. That's all.
Hence Andor. Well written, good characters, and actual world building. Andor himself is irrelevant. You could substitute him for basically anyone. But you can tell the story was written with confidence, respect for what came before, and passion. You cannot take an established franchise and do whatever you want with it. You just can't. If you want to do that, make your own IP. You couldn't make a sequel to, say, the 1st Avengers but decide "actually Captain America can fly and eats children, Iron Man is actually a reptilian empress, and the Hulk is a ghost". You have to respect what came before. Otherwise, what is even the point of making a sequel or furthering a story? Just make a new one unique to your vision. Don't try to change what already happened and then get angry with the fans when they call you out for it.
Disney, and other studios, need to stop tearing down old characters and old canon to replace with new, hollow imitations. Star Trek is doing the same damn thing and these two IPs are arguably 2 of the largest in the world. And they have both been absolutely decimated over the last 5-10 years. It's mind boggling how this can happen when there are so many passionate and capable people out there that would happily write a script or develop a show for these IPs for free (not that they shouldn't be paid, just saying there are people who would jump at the chance). And they need to stop blaming the fans. Stop it. Just because I dislike Reva does not mean I'm racist or sexist. She's a garbage character. That's it. I'd say the same damn thing if it was a white guy. Like Kylo Ren. garbage pale imitation of a better "Legends" character. It all boils down to respect for what came before, competent story writing, world building, and well written and consistent characters. Everything else is less important. Give me 20 seasons of Obi-Wan if they are well written and have good characters (and don't shatter existing canon repeatedly). But don't give me even 1 season if you can't do that. Would have been just as bad a show if it had been about a brand new character.
51:50 The same thing goes for me here too. I ended up watching the prequels and then the original trilogy when I was young. It gave me a much different impression at the time. I wasn't watching the story of how this massively intimidating foe came to be, I was watching the story of a young man fall to darkness and despair.
The KOTR clips you keep showing break my heart because they perfectly illustrate how kickass Star Wars can be in the right hands. So disappointed that Disney is squandering the IP.
honestly, the mandalorian went sideways when the show went from "mandalorian dude does jobs" to "the baby yoda show"
If you had asked me some 15 years ago, if I would have liked to seen movie set in the old republic, I would have been incredibly excited.
Now, with the Disney at the helm, my first though was "Oh my dear lord, please don't f*ck this up too!"
The problem is The Mandalorian, Ahsoka and Boba Fett shows were supposed to be this grand build up to an epic galaxy spanning finale. But they dropped the ball. It always, always comes down to better writing in the end, even if it takes years to see it
Which is why Disney refusing to cooperate with the strikers is so frustrating. Because a lot of the demands these strikers are making involve getting rid of rushed and undersupported writers rooms that basically guarentee meh and formulaic writing.
So glad you released this. Lately I've been completely disenchanted by the Star Wars franchise these past years and I could never fully elaborate or extrapolate sense from those thoughts and feelings towards it.
Thank you so much for providing a concise frame of the problems and issues as well as a glimmer of hope that this beloved story may be saved
Ngl, Order 66 from a janitor's perspective is something I had not considered. To have a job in the Jedi temple was long a symbol of prestige and high honor, no matter the position.
Maybe the janitor saw the flaws in the Jedi Order, maybe he deified them, but either way, he had to clean up dead youngling. That changes a person. I'd be interested to see that story handled well.
"To clean up dead younglings is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret."
@@Sandlund93 I’m imagining episode 3 Anakin eating popcorn while watching a NatGeo late-night tv level presentation while that line comes on.
12:43, can't disagree more on that point. Andor's pitch for me was a more in depth look at what made Andor's character who he is.
Jar Jar needs his own show...now hear me out. It could be played as a dark comedy. Jar Jar actually has a really tragic backstory and we should be able to see it. But throughout everything, he always keeps his head up, endearing him to us. He was a general and a senator. We could see his fall from grace and then how he ends up entertaining children. Ultimately, we should see him redeemed. Maybe going on one last adventure. The poor guy deserves it. Jar Jar could not only make us laugh, but also cry. Ahmed Best deserves it. Disney, there's your idea. We could see Star Wars told from beginning to end told from the point of view of a poor, tragic Gungan.
Did you ever hear The tragedy of jar jar binks 😁
I know this is a joke but I would unironically watch
Y'know this can work. I mean, there's a story from Legends where Jar Jar's father was so fed up with his son's constant bumbling shenanigans that he tried to commit suicide... I'm NOT kidding.
I also think a Jar Jar show could work, but I was imagining it like a political drama, where his seemingly baffling senatorial performance plays into ceding diplomatic power to the imperial escalation. But they would have to commit once and for all to whether he is a dark side force user who uses silliness to disguise his intentions. That could make a great season finale hook.
@@liamphibia I remember reading about it a long time ago. Didn't his dad try marooning him before trying to kill himself? Its funny and f****d up at the same time. Basically, I would say turn Jar Jar into the Butters Scotch of Star Wars.
They did put thought into Andor, it was a story about the exact moment of the birth of the rebellion. Why do you think Mon Mothma and other characters got so much screen time and it wasn't all about Andor's character? They were actively telling the story of the moment the rebel alliance began, and how Andor was part of that. It was more consequential to the lore of the original trilogy than Book of Boba Fett ever was. Like you said it WAS competently made and that includes what the story was about.
The problem with Andor, as I have heard it described, is every moment Andor is onscreen. He's just not that enticing as a main protagonist, and they wasted the idea of 'the early Rebellion' by tying it to him. The show would have been much better if it had been pitched and written as a 'Birth of the Rebellion' tv show.
@@evanlogan3595 Disagree, Andor's presence in scenes was inconsequential because no scene ever cast him in the "main character" light. He was always part of the ensemble to carry out the story. Plus the story arc was never told as one about Andor, the closest they got was with some backstory about his "mother" and sister, but those were short scenes and the ONLY weak part of the season. Diego Luna is an excellent actor and he brought something unique to the character, and by the end he was doing things rather than having things happen to him. He's such an easy character to ignore it's insane anyone would complain about him with such fixation when the show really was the closest thing to perfect Star Wars that a creator can achieve. People who shit on Andor are really just burning their Star Wars fandom-card and proving they can't tell the difference between a good story and a bad one.
@@evanlogan3595 It was pitched and written as a Birth of the Rebellion show. Andor just happened to be the link they needed to hang something familiar onto it. Just watch the season, there's nothing to regret in it.
You said it perfectly. The premise was IMMACULATE and RELEVANT.
Thinking back, I don't think I saw a single Andor commercial. I've seen commercials for every other modern Star Wars show and movie but not Andor. I only heard about it long after its release
If it were up to me, I’d love to see a film or series about Anakins mother.
Shes always been a character I’ve wanted to know more about since I was young. Her life before Anikan, after he’s left and what rumors she might have heard. Especially with her horrific death. It feels very unresolved.
But that’s just me.
What Disney has done to Star Wars broke my heart. I'm at the point where I just can't care about any new Star Wars.
Ditto. Star Wars has been going downhill since 1997 when George started fucking up his masterpiece and gave us the "special editions". It just kept getting worse from there to the current state of the franchise where all the magic and excitement has been sucked out and replaced with apathy and wokeness. Lucas ruined it, Disney killed it.
Right? If Disney Star Wars doesn't care for Star Wars, how do they want Star Wars fans to care for their product. Its just not the same product anymore. It has not been well taken care of.
@@sjdrifter72The special editions didn't ruin the movies you grew up with. They barely even change the core ideas of the films. You're just being a baby.
I think the premise of andor was probably the best executed. It's not just some superman of a being (you know how only the great men of history ever do stuff). But it's about how a real person not just fits in a bad society, but also how they become radicalized and join in a revolution. It feels much more real and has a real meaning behind it that's not just cookie cutter good is good because it's good.
Also please don't kill thrawn. He is such a great character and given who he is I feel like he could be a greater character to focus on in post empire galaxy.
while i enjoyed mano for the most part, i believe you are giving it insanely too much credit. it was very reminiscent of TFA at first it seems pretty good until you ask any real questions. the writing is pretty bad as is how much it breaks its on plot points on a episode to episode basis. even with season one being my favorite, its really not written well consistently. its a shame bc its clear the ideas are/were there, only for them to completely botch the execution. they created such a FANTASTIC idea of a character in mando only to completely sideline him or assassinate that character/traits almost right away in HIS OWN STORY. the opening scene is GREAT, and from there the drop in quality is so rapid. and again, i didnt hate the show and quite enjoyed it up until season 3. its cinematic visuals are absolutely breathtaking & as is the darker ideas, i just wish they couldve capitalized on the ladder .
ANDOR, however was PERFECT. and that show deserves so much praise and it blows my mind how it gets so little credit. thats how you tell a great story, even as its own IP its great let alone a SW one. JUSTIC TO ANDOR. disney/lucasfilm just please give me that quality more consistently i beg of you. the formula is there! thanks for the video i enjoyed as always.
The quote I heard recently sums it up perfectly for me (paraphrased): "Star Wars used to reference Samurai movies, Cowboy shows, and Serials like Flash Gordon. Now Star Wars references Star Wars."
I've also maintained that Disney needed to do something completely different when they acquired Star Wars. Something completely detached from the Skywalker saga. I go back to the Old Republic era of the early and mid-2000s and part of the reason it is so beloved by the fanbase is because it gave fans something they had never seen before, but was still recognizably Star Wars. Disney needed to do something like that from the get-go and instead they hamfisted three more episodes and a bunch of tv shows out of an already squeezed out storyline. Even if the new concept Disney thought of sucked, I don't think it would've divided the fanbase and the franchise as a whole as long as it didn't touch any of the characters and plot that the first six movies covered.
I know Disney is has this High Republic thing going on, but outside of it's initial announcement and the knowledge that Star Wars: Eclipse is based in that era of SW I haven't heard a peep about the High Republic otherwise. It's like the least marketed thing ever. It's almost like they feel the need to bleed the Skywalker saga dry because it's the only recognizable part of Star Wars, while forgetting Star Wars is the most recognizable IP in the history of media. The franchise has never been more stale, and they continue to milk old ideas while refusing to introduce us to anything new. The Star Wars timeline spans tens of thousands of years, and they don't play with any of it.
Ehh, at some level, they'll probably fuck up the Old Republic, as well.
It's just shitty leadership at Lucasfilm and Disney. Meanwhile, talented writers/directors don't want to approach it because they KNOW Disney isn't going to take SW seriously. By that, their names being attached to failed projects means no more jobs for a few years. You're only as good as your last paycheck, essentially.
There was an event with some of the actors from The Acolyte set in the hilariously named "High Republic." One lady on it described her character as a strong leader and that was very good because "I've always felt that Star Wars was so misogynistic." Some fans edited her statement with images of Leia, Amidala, Ahsoka, Bo Katan, Shakti and Mon Mothma for added humor. It was pretty clear she hadn't actually seen Star Wars, so that's pretty much what we can expect.
I don't have much confidence in the story group who have been working on this era. A writer for the High Republic comics even apologized after having a character jump off a building and catch themselves by using their lightsaber on a wall, the thing just sank in and then held like a physical sword might. He admitted that he didn't know how lightsabers worked. Considering children who watch the movies do, it was both surprising and expected at this point.
The showrunner is also a lady who was the assistant for Harvey Weinstein during all his assaults and harassments, so we can't know where that kind of person will lead the plot, which is likely why they are so quiet about it.
It's a train that never stops wrecking.
I gave up on Star Wars ages ago. I feel like 'The Closer Look' is the person to figure it out!!!!
Except he misses the biggest reason why SW died in the first place... Kathleen Kennedy.
How bout watch video first?@@Lornext
@@Lornext? Go to 20 minutes in. Did you watch the video?
Nailed it exactly. I went into Andor with such low expectations. Very happy with it but the low expectations abound. Trilogy, Obi-Wan and Boba killed my expectations.
Thank you for validating the love I have for this series and actually criticizing the franchise, while offering solutions. Thinking of the possibilities for new shows and movies brings me to tears. There is so much to explore, we just need the right people at Lucas to make the decisions that will push the franchise far into the universe. This franchise matters, we have to fight for it or these corporate goons will destroy it.
In my opinion the Jedi games were the best StarWars thing to recently be released. Cal Kestis is a character i never knew i wanted like Obi-Wan or other popular characters because he didnt exist. Hes an entirely new character that goes in an unknown direction and that is the hypest thing for me. I personally dont care that much about the other things that come out rn but i cant stop getting excited which direction Cal will go, how will his story end which planets will we visit? Combine that with the new rich planets and already known planets in a perfect mix with cool game mechanics its just my favourite thing starwars recently. I think it captures the spirit of starwars perfectly and makes me excited for more but i have no idea how id want it to play out so i just wait in anticipation.
Cal is the best thing since Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade imho. At least when we talk about stuff not coming from tv shows and movies. Ahsoka is up there with them for me, but we still have to see where the tv series is going...
Cal wasn't bad, but his supporting cast wasn't good. His "love interest" was about a 2/10 considering the average people you'll see in Walmart. It's like Starfield's NPC motto; Make them ugly and vapid.
Imagine if they would have come on stage and talked about a threat to the galaxy, one that's been hiding amongst us, arising from the shadows to threaten the force itself. An enemy from beyond the edges of even the most unknown reaches of space, weilding unseen powers and technologies with an aim to reshape the galaxy. Drop some more hints at them being YV and i'd have been sold. They could have done the whole heist story build up over years and different trilogies, films gathering the different squadrons to prepare for space battle on a different level with all the gravity weapony. Films concerning the children of the Jedi leading parts of the charge after their sparce training under Luke. You could have done Luke's travels around the galaxy, where you realize the force is not the force we know. The force is only one side of a greater power. I mean, I really wanted to see Luke tilt a mini black hole back on the bioship generating it. They could have done sooo much, even give Mara Jade her own show 😭
Making movies that require people to watch TV shows on a streaming subscription service is also not a good idea if you want new fans. There will be a lot of in information that newer viewers won't know and it will be hard to get into. Disney hasn't figured out that that is one of the problems with Marvel Phase 4. You have to watch hours and hours of Disney+ TV shows to keep up with it and even fans don't want to or can't put in the time.
Here’s a way to add tension to a Kenobi show: you don’t make it about him and Disney should be up front about it. You follow the POV of an inquisitor in a detective style show. You get to know the inquisitor, see their aspirations, and maybe humanize them. The tension is born from their interactions/fights with Kenobi and Vader (who have smaller roles). Of course, this would no longer be an Obi-Wan show, but it wouldn’t mislead in marketing
After hearing Christopher Nolan could be in talks to direct Star Wars, I feel like THAT could be the way to fix everything. Imagine giving Nolan full creative control to create a SW trilogy, similar to what he did for Batman.
33:06 - 33:41
This kinda already exists with Andor, yes Cassian was a character already established but we knew next to nothing abt him in Rogue One, I personally think that he’s now one of my favorite characters in Star Wars cause of that show, and brought back my love for the series
Bring back the expanded universe
I also think the reason andor wasn't watched a lot is for more than just star wars fatigue, andor was really good I absolutely loved it don't get me wrong, but it was different and even though I loved it, there was times where it just didn't feel like star wars c
4:10 No, that is _not_ why the Critical Drinker criticized the Mandalorian. The problem with The Mandalorian as Drinker explains is the time-consuming sidequests. Going on little adventures would be fine if the show was like Doctor Who and the characters' goal was to explore new places each episode, but that is _not_ the premise of The Mandalorian. By setting up the story so that the Djinn is on a quest for the whole season, every little side-quest feels more like filler than the intended story. If you promise a season-long arc, then every episode should be a critical beat of the story and not a distraction from it.
The problem with Andor is that the writers seem to think they need to _trade_ the parts of Star Wars that people enjoy in order to get good writing. There's no fantastic music, the pacing is slow, the tone is depressing, the morals are as gray as half of the set pieces*, and there's absolutely no focus on the Force or the Jedi which are supposed to be the core of the Star Wars story. But even that last one could be overlooked if the other parts could just be fixed.
*To be clear, you do _not_ need to make the series a story about people who are unquestioningly good v.s. people who are unquestioningly bad. That's the sin of the sequel series. What you do is what George Lucas did: when characters did bad things, they had bad consequences and affected the character in bad ways. The goodguys _should_ be good, but the choice of evil should always be there. When one of them does choose evil, it should take them down a dark path that leads to self-annihilation.
Oh and as for Part 4: Retconning would just make old fans get scared nothing means anything and anything could be retconned. As much as it sucks, the correct thing to do would be to let the thing rest and then address the fallout, because Rey building a New, better Jedi Order would be original...even if that idea should've stayed with Luke and Mara Jade...or go far into the future like Nintendo did to Zelda when the timeline overloaded. Retconning would be a short term fix at best...not long term. Yes it's stagnant right now and Abrams didn't offer much, but it's not completely gone either.
4:59 Rebels explored Mandalorian culture far more in about 4-5 episodes, than The Mandalorian did in 3 seasons. And yes, I know you said "live action".
I have to agree with just about every point you brought up. Though honestly, an event like the invasion of the far outsiders might be the only kind of thing that even stands a chance of salvaging the sequel timeline, since the only feasible way for the very strong invaders to be repelled is for the rebel faction and the first order/remnants if the empire to work together. Which would introduce a very complicated situation with a lot of potential for new and interesting storytelling. It would force a departure from the overused formula of underdog rebels vs empire.
I'm so happy Henry's talking about how stupid Disney has been at running the franchises we love. Most of the time the only people saying things like that are naysayers and gloom and doom types so it's cool to hear a creator with a pretty level head say the same thing. It's clear that these franchises can still be great, but unless the people in charge use some gosh darned wisdom, I don't think they'll manage to make it back to where they belong
43:14 That is a bad take. You make it out as if characters like Luke only lead to mediocre stale stories, while new characters will be interesting and fresh. It depends on how you handle it. Post Episode 6 has a lot of material to draw from to create something great with Luke. That would also draw new fans as one could jump into Luke building up a Jedi order without needing to know about the background too much as it can be simply mentioned. It can be a story of its own. Building a Jedi Order and a Republic. This would give chances for world building and for lore.
Its not about existing fans vs new viewers at all, that is not a decision to make as those are not exclusive or connected. Disney made it that way when the ONLY value of their series is the nostalgia factor. A well written Obi-Wan or Boba Fett story could have simultaneously delighted existing fans as well as attracted new viewers. Instead it alienated and disapointed fans and had no value to new viewers. Its about writing compelling stories.