I’m just about to head down the Octopus Energy heatpump route. My quote is £8100 less the £7500 grant and as in England our restrictions are just 1 metre from boundary but has to be below a certain dB reading at my neighbours bedroom window, all is good though so no need for planning permission. Interestingly I got three other companies to quote none were less than £15000 to 20000 for the same install and all wanted 300 to 500 non returnable payment for the survey although all would deduct it if I went ahead. None would deduct the grant from the bill all wanted full payment on completion and then they would give me the certificate to claim the grant. Seems there are a lot of get rich quick companies just the same as with solar installations. Well done Octopus Energy, in my opinion the only honest company out there.
I'd say there are a real mixture of companies out there and it's really difficult to know who to trust as a consumer. If my home had needed specialist treatment outside of Octopus's designs then I would only have gone with a Heat Geek guaranteed company. Using Octopus did provide me with a level of confidence as they are only tackling the jobs they know for certain they can achieve acceptable results with.
They all wanted full payment because they're not billionaire mega companies like Octopus, totally normal. I was quoted £27k before BUS grant. The install would have been infinitely better than Octopuses though, without doubt.
@@Soulrollsdeep How do you know it would have been better did you have it done, I get you can spend more on ASHP but the 15K I save will more than cover a replacement at a later date if needs be .
@@chrisbowler8200 The attention to detail during the survey surpassed Octopus in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. The level of detail in the design (which was discussed in situ and in a very detailed follow up set of documents) was also beyond what Octopus could muster, and the SCOP would have been over 5, guaranteed. It was night and day.
My ASHP was installed by Octopus in June 22. Four bed detached 1990s house with EPC rating of B85 with 270mm loft insulation , cavity wall insulation and recently installed replacement double glazing (original wooden frames were shot). Survey showed 6.6kW heat requirement @ -2deg so had 7kW Daikin Altherma 2 installed along with 11/14 rads replaced, new sealed tank. No internal pipework replaced as had a 15mm system. Cost was £11250 less £5000 grant and £250 off as early adopter so net £6000. The install went well and the octopus staff were great and very professional, tidy and good banter. Design sCOP heat was 3.4 DHW 1.7 based on 50 deg flow @-2ext. I insisted on weather compensation at commissioning and setup was 50deg@-2ext/35deg@18ext. In December 2022 it was obvious that these settings were too high and after loads of tweaking now have them at 50deg@-15ext/25deg@18ext which keeps house at 20-21deg downstairs and 18-19deg upstairs. sCOP year one 3.63 heating and 2.51 DHW but looking like will be better year two now have settled on final weather comp settings. My only regret is I didn't ask Octopus to quote for larger radiators so that design could have been for lower flow temps as I suspect this would have not added very much to the quote. But all in all I am very happy with the system and pleased to have no gas. Just waiting for SGN to finally sever the gas connection as it is only capped in the meter box atm.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Basically when we got to Dec 22 and it was sub zero the house was too warm so I gradually decreased the top end from 50⁰@-2⁰ext to 50⁰@-15⁰ext so rooms stayed at required temps. It was trial and error but easy to do. Similarly altered top end on warmer days and found the sweet spot so that rooms right temp and virtually no cycling occurs. I have set up Home Assistant to enable me to visualise flow return temps, study, living room and bedroom temps and external temps . I also use a spare CT clamp attached to a Harvi to monitor the power usage of the heat pump in HA.
My experience with Octopus in as nutshell a manner as I can make it: Overall initial quote including BUS grant and deposit of £500 plus they wanted to give me £250 extra from Daikin: £3350ish Survey performed in early May 2023 I was advised I needed planning permission as it was "1db over noise limit". Worth noting they did NOT do a sound test process and didn't ask me what the semi detached neighbour's windows are (bathrooms, aka uninhabitable rooms). The nearest habitable room was circa 9m away. Accepted quote, attempted planning process - total outlay for that including scale drawings: £500ish. Survey showed overall temp target was 18 degrees throughout the 1st and 2nd floor, downstairs with UFH was including but target temp blank and heat loss blank. Total estimated electricity usage for heating and HW would be 3500kwh-ish. All radiators (double panel throughout) would remain as-is. SCOP was estimated at 3.8 for heating, can't remember water SCOP. Unit would be the 8kw Daikin variant with a 250L water tank. I queried radiator schedule and flow temp of 50c. Advised neither can be changed and it is what it is, take it or leave it Planning permission became so tiresome (council wanted independent sound testing done. ALL my neighbours have ASHP, utterly bizarre) so I gave up and asked Octopus to come back resurvey it. Second guy came, equally as useless in the sound test department. Didn't contemplate room type, distance, hedge in way, line of sight, all the usual basics Advised I could have the pump on the other side of the front of my house. This meant pipework would run either through to my kitchen, up through the brand new kitchen worktop, mean cupboards coming out the wall, running through the hallway, into the downstairs WC, through the utility room and eventually plumbing into the hot water tank. Said no to this as it would have been ugly as hell and ruin the house aesthetic. Spoke to other installers online and they all advised the planning was unrequired. Queried with Octopus and they relented, advising it could be installed in the original spot, meaning a clean straight run to the HWT. This is January 2024 at this point. Installer visited, told me our Geberit pipework isn't compatible with an ASHP due to 'pressure levels'. Reminder: ALL my neighbours have ASHP and they all run fantastically - we ALL have the same pipework as we're in a gated community with all properties built by the same developer. I was advised a full repipe would be required. This at first was down to me to source a supplier to sort, then received an update advising Octopus would do it at an additional cost of £4500 I had an independent supplier (with an exceptional reputation) come and survey, they advised the spine of the heating pipework would need changing, but not a full repipe. ALL 14 radiators would need changing to larger variants, some K3. UFH downstairs would be complemented with some small additional radiators. Heating SCOP would be over 5, water would be over 4. 5kw Vaillant ASHP installed in the preferred spot out front without question, immediately passed sound test. £27k install cost before BUS grant, ouch - but then, I know it'd have been a much better job than Octopus. All in all, decided to sack the whole thing off and go with A2A. We've got an immersion heater and tank anyway and overnight rates make that cheap (circa £45p) to charge. We have 4kw solar perfectly south facing in SE England and 24kwh of battery. We can have 7 Fujitsu units installed throughout the property for £8600ish - and I get cooling during the summer and a COP of at least 4. We'll leave the existing electric boiler in place to aid on those rare super cold snaps if the A2A doesn't quite cut it. We're lucky that 5 of the 7 spots having a unit installed are on the same wall, so two split units down the side of the house (no ugly pumps out front or back) with straight trunking and we're good to go. Overall, the experience with Octopus has been laborious. The customer reps I've dealt with have been very nice, accommodating, etc - but the issue seems to lay at the technical team end, who you can't speak to and never visit the property. So just bare in mind you may run into any of the above and should challenge all of it. It felt very 'Mr Potato Head' rather than a tailored install, which I can understand as they're working to tight constraints to keep the overall cost to consumers down. Would I recommend them? Yeah, why not, there's a lot of similar stories online, but then I know they're successfully installing way more than they are losing. But do be prepared for lots of hoops.
I totally agree with your "Mr Potato Head" analogy - that is why I chose them though. I didn't have the same experience as you obviously, but the 'closest fit' template install model based on their R&D installations is how they keep the cost down and are able to provide an adequate solution for the masses. Obviously an independent installer could do a better custom job for you, but not everyone wants the 'Rolls Royce' when a Dacia Sandero will get them from A to B. Nothing wrong with your decision to go with A2A either in my opinion, totally valid route with its own advantages. Shame there's no grant for those at the moment.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech The A2A is actually more expensive than the Octopus install, but far less invasive. And can always go to Octopus in the future once the cosy 6 is out, wouldn't mind giving that a try!
Hello. I have the same problem with Octopus. They said I have to apply for planning permission for just 1decibel. Maximum sound noise is 42 dB an I have 43db. I have to pay £322 for planning permision. Do you think to go forward to pay £322 or to tell them to cone to check again noise level? Thank you.
Thanks for that. I got quoted just under £9k by British Gas after the grant. I originally signed up but then back tracked, that was just too much. A month or so later I tried Octopus, £3.25K after the grant. I like to try and support UK manufacturing so at the moment I'm holding on to get the Octopus Cosy 6 (manufactured by what was previously called RED in NI) installed when it is finally gets released.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I spoke to them a couple off days ago and they said it was still going through testing. Anyhow, there is such a back log that I'm unlikely to get anything fitted until September time at the moment!
I am still awaiting tech specs for the Cosy 6. Want to know what the COP is before I consider it. It makes sense that it won't be the best as they run at a higher temp so it's easy to retrofit.
@eddyd8745 Mitsubishi are manufactured at a factory in Livingston, Vaillant at Belper in Derbyshire, and possibly others do as well as they're mostly big internationals.
@@_Dougaldog Yes, I was originally looking at the Valiant because it was a UK manufacture and is fitted by British Gas. BG was just far too expensive even after the grant (nearly 3 times Octopus price).
Thanks for the video, very helpful. I wonder if you would wouldmind answering a question? . We have two digital showers that are currently running on a vented, non pressurised system. Please can you advise if you had a choice about pressurised v non pressurised or does it have to be pressurised?
My understanding is that it must be moved to a sealed/unvented system. But, I'm not a plumber, you should confirm that'll with an installer. An unvented system is considered my hygienic due to no open water tanks, but I understand your conundrum.
Many thanks, yes I replaced one of the aqualisa units last year at a cost of £700 for the new unit. Am a bit reluctant to replace two units but guess I could sell on like you did with some of your components. Thanks again for your helpful videos.
That’s not a bad price for the whole install. My own ASHP installed just over 2 years ago was a major order of magnitude more than that. I was eligible for the previous RHI grant (£11k repaid quarterly over 7 years, and its CPI linked so been going up a lot recently😮), but my cost to change was still double yours. The site survey, EPC and quote were all free upfront. The big cost difference was due to the size of the property they calculated I’d need a 15kW ASHP and there wasn’t an MCS certified one at the time, so I had to have two 9kW ASHP’s which didn’t come cheap. In the install we had almost all the radiators replaced but in the two years afterwards I’ve had one of those replaced (because we had an under-sized one fitted which was a mistake), and just now had the towel rails in the kitchen and utility room changed as well. The house is comfortable and warm with annual running costs around £1400, similar to the oil central heating system we replaced.
Yup I’m very pleased with the price! You never can predict what incentives the government might offer so you have to take what’s available at the time of install I guess. Your system sounds like it’s for a large property?
Ive got my pre install visit next month. Install in April. 4 bed 70's semi. Octopus are fitting a 8kW Daikin HP, replacing 7 rads/towel rails. Hoping all goes well, will be ditching the gas meter.
Well that was such a helpful video. I've binged the playlist of heat pump instal and now feel a little more assured about our future heating system. We have exactly the same Potterton boiler you had and its approaching 21 years old and reaching the end of its life. I've checked out the latest .GOV website for EPC requirements. Apparently in early May 2024 the government will relax the rules and allow a ASHP to be fitted regardless of the recommendations. So I'm waiting a bit for that to happen before starting the process of getting a quote from Octopus. Thank you so much for your very informative videos. - Paul
I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it useful, one of my main intentions was to encourage others to do the same and show that it's a good move to make if you're able to. Don't forget to use a referral code to get £100 off your Octopus installation costs. Ideally if you use mine then I get £100 credit too :) Code is A-E16D01B4
Thanks for this series of videos. I have what looks like the same old boiler as you so I'm also looking at Octopus HP install as it will be cheaper than a gas boiler. Did you sell the old boiler? There still seem to be many second hand parts advertised for them, particularly the PCB.
My Mum is having hers installed a week on Monday. Our quote is £100 after paying the survey fee of £500. We need planning permission too. We are 1db over and can’t move it.
As much as I recommend Octopus, it may be worth looking at a supplier who can provide a quieter heat pump. It was cost a few hundred pounds and take months to get planning permission, if it is indeed granted, in my experience. At the very least have a chat with Octopus and see if they can swap for a different heat pump.
I can almost guarantee you're not 1db over. Let me know if you want to hear more on this as I can't be bothered typing it if you're going to either miss this reply or ignore me 👍👍
@@Soulrollsdeep I would be interested to hear more. They have quoted a Daikin EDLA04E2V3. I will be interested to see how load my Mum's is. They are going to cover the planning permissions costs if I go ahead. It made me think at which point this rule will be removed. If councils think heat pumps are noisy, as more and more people get them, are housing estates going to have a constant hum of heat pumps?
@@bazcurtis178 No problem. Firstly, the MCS review, I believe, has been concluded. Unsure when or what the changes will be, but the most likely is the removal of the noise limitations - they currently stop all terraced, flats, etc, from having one without arduous planning. Anyway. I was quoted by Octopus for an 8kw Daikin model, the survey team did NOT do a proper sound summary test. They clearly just went off the documentation and deemed it 1db over (noticing a trend, here?). Watch this: ruclips.net/video/tXO3AaJcb-0/видео.html (How To Complete A Heat Pump Noise Calculation Form, in case the link doesn't work) you can do this yourself. Ours is a semi, we mirror our neighbours (so bathroom backs onto bathroom, etc) - nearest habitable window is at least 9m away, we have a bush in the way and there is no line of sight. So we didn't need planning! I paid for this and Octopus will be refunding me accordingly. Challenge this, chances are you don't need it but you know what to do via the link and can always let them crack on if it turns out you do need it. Hope this helps.
@@Soulrollsdeep this is what Octopus told me - However, the noise assessment came out at 43db, only 1 db over the limit of 42db which would fall into permitted development. This is also rounded up (MCS building regs determine this), so may be closer to 42db anyway. Each planning authority seems to have its own rules as to who they accept and reject, but in my experience being that close to permitted development I wouldn’t foresee any issues
Ours cost £2700 after the grant. Octopus paid for the EPC also £51 to submit a question to Planning Office and promised to pay for a planning application if needed. We only needed 3 new rads and no new pipe work.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Well I think I should give more details. They wanted to change 6 but I moved the 3 larger ones to the position of the other 3. I also added extra 1 (£50) to my lounge. That brought the quote down from £2900. I did this work myself. Doing so got the design flow rate from 50° down to 40°. Been up and running for nearly 4 month and the average cop is 4.3
I thought it had to be £5k cost to get the Nationwide greener mortgage? I'm not sure if my heat pump install would come to more than that (heat loss survey this month) and also not sure if upping my battery capacity counts as 'green'. Good to hear from someone who's got it!
You are correct, the total cost for all green improvements must be more than £5k. When I took the loan out it was - see the original quote minus the old BUS grant plus the required shower and planning permission etc, I checked and those were all allowed because it was part of the total cost of the project and required to complete it. The BUS grant increasing after the loan had been issued was unexpected and does take me below the threshold but as the loan had already been given there's no option for handing it back early without penalty. I've also spent some on loft insulation too but I do need to spend the rest on other green improvements if I can.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Ah, I hadn't appreciated the timing of the grant changing. I think I'll email my broker and see if batteries count. Maybe I can stick the induction hob on there too, seeing as how that's needed in addition to the heat pump to get off gas...
We had a quote of £1138 which i feel is almost too good to refuse, waiting for the survey now to see if the sums will add up. Based upon my own assessment on heat punk it calculated 3.65 SCOP, to which i was hoping for more.
I think a SCOP of 3.65 is reasonable. Don't forget you can always get a much more efficient system from a custom-designed independent Heat Geek approved installer. It's whether you think the additional cost of using those installers is worth it for the most efficient system. For me personally I am happy with SCOP I am getting, and the extra cost of something more efficient would have priced me out of it. I'd rather be 'more efficient' than nothing at all!
I've just been quoted £6800 by Octopus (after grant). I don't understand what's that's based on. All i tell them is what type of house and what the current heating it.
It's based on your EPC results, existing boiler/heating system, and house size/type. They basically have estimations for installations and use those categories to come up with the closest fit. They did the same to me and stuck to that price even after the survey.
I wouldn’t have a clue sorry especially with oil - I’m an end customer and not an installer so you are best off contacting a few companies to find your range.
I did wonder about the energy monitor as well as my ASHP came with 3 meters to measure the throughput but since that is up in the loft (where the control panel is) I bought a Shelly EM1 last year so I could get more readily available data into Home Assistant. I do see about 4-7% over-read on the Shelly though compared to the meter readings. Annoying and can’t find any way of recalibrating. Still, very useful to see daily consumption of the ASHP alongside other battery data
It's a Shelly Pro EM. The electrician left space in the outdoor consumer unit for me and I installed it myself. Shelly make two EMs, the regular module one is cheaper, but the Pro one works out only a few pounds more and has a rated accuracy level and also fits nicely in a DIN format.
Funny you should mention the digital shower, im currently looking into this as well, do you know of any that work with Home Assistant, im struggling to find any that do
This one works with a proper bodge, sort of... and I'll be covering it in a future video. We are really talking a bodge though, as in you end up with a button in HA that can turn it on or off but no sort of feedback on its state or any monitoring.
@@edc1569It's way smarter than that! It has presets which all have time limits, so it would never run for longer than say 15 minutes anyway. It would also cut out as soon as the temperature dropped too low because the tank has run out.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech sorry I have just seen this. Thank you for doing this all. Really helpful. Are you happy with it? I’m looking at pulling the trigger on it.
@@grizzlybear1633 Very happy with it, it's worked brilliantly over the winter. If you're going with Octopus then don't forget to give them my referral code (A-E16D01B4) and you'll get £100 off (I'll get £100 credit too). Octopus aftercare has been great too, and the price was very competitive. It probably won't be the most efficient system possible but it will give acceptable performance. Independent Heat Geek installers are more likely to give you the most efficient system but they tend to cost more up front too. It just depends on your priorities.
Thank you for the video. Do you have access and can you share an itemised quote or invoice? I'm trying to understand where these elevated numbers are coming from? I had a quote from Octopus for £11k , British Gas = 14k and EDF =£15k. Heat pump and HWC for installers are around £3.5k for Daikin and £4k for Vaillant (that's for 5kW units with 180L slimline cylinder) I don't need to change any radiators. 28mm copper pipe is £30 per 3 meters, lets say £500 for pipework. £500 for isolators and cables. Is (labour) installation of the system £7k??? Really What am I missing? I currently have combi boiler with flow temperature of 37 deg. My home temperature is set to 21 degrees nice and cosy throughout the winter. BG expert told me I need bigger radiators and system will be commissioned at 50 degrees. It seems to me that some companies are forcing customers to pay for unnecessary extras, so they can make margins and take commission.
No I don’t have an itemised invoice. The commissioned flow temperature refers to a worst case 50 degrees when it’s -5 probably outside, your design docs will confirm that. The flow temperature will be dynamic and mine is usually 30 degrees or so
Bigger radiators are because you will want to run at a lower flow temperature most of the time in order to make it more efficient so they need to output more power to battle against your home’s heat loss
I enjoyed your balance sheet which showed that the HP was not much more than for anew boile. But you didn't say anything about the space lost in your house for the equipment and the running costs for the HP V a boiler. Maybe thats for the next video
I have mentioned about the sauce required for the system a number of times in this series of videos so I’m not trying to sweep that issue under the carpet by any means. There is also a dedicated video do running costs after installation, and a new update video being published this Saturday actually.
The two things are not connected. The hot water tank is fed by the cold mains feed, therefore all taps in the house are at mains pressure. Previously my hot water tank was fed by an open cold water tank in the loft which provided the pressure. That difference meant I had to swap the shower. As for heating slowly yes, that’s what it does but that has no relevance to the water pressure
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech After thinking about it you are right. I am in the same position regarding a shower. Current system is open vented and a HP (or new combi) would be a sealed system, ie. would be moving from gravity fed to mains pressure.
I consider the car an ongoing cost of living, required in order to participate in the modern way of life therefore finance can make sense as overall it enables me to go to work, earn money, pay for the rest of my life. I don't consider it an asset so much as a means to an end. For a house, a mortgage is fine as it's an appreciating asset as you say, but for general home improvements like a bathroom renovation or new kitchen, generally that is also depreciating and not totally necessary if you already have a functioning bathroom/kitchen and just fancy a makeover... therefore any loan you took out on that would have no financial justification really and is because "you wanted a new one", so I stick to my own wobble-headed guns there and say yes I would not usually take out loans for home improvements and instead save up for the things that would be nice to have, the loans are for the things I need to have.
As Octopus customer on their solar and ev tariff would work out far to expensive as have microbore thus needing pipe and rads to be replaced replastering all downstairs walls, new hot water storage tank and probably new shower system or as I bought couple years back replacement Worcester combi installed for just over £2000
My combi costs £2.50 (inc s/c)a day for heat an water 4 people in 4 bedroom house temp set at 19. I have 8kwh of solar and 19kwh of battery storage and averages at £1 (inc s/c) per day over the whole year. So a heat pump which octopus want £4500 in my case has no benefit at all. I went down the route of extra insulation everywhere I could. Cheaper and more long term beneficial.
Every home is different. I had a really old inefficient boiler which needed to be replaced anyway so I was basically in the perfect position to have a heat pump and see the most benefit
Barring the two tonnes of CO2 produced each year by average gas boiler, which is no long term benefit to anybody. Did your Octopus quote include the grant ?
@@_Dougaldog For every two tonne we create China produces 60 tonne, people have to be able to afford the energy they use, it is important, I would like retro fit insulation, solar 24 hour battery back up and an ashp but that will be £30k +, when insulating the internal of the external walls (50mm phen foam and plasterboard) will be £6k (Loft already insulated but further insulation only hundreds of pounds) and reduce bills by half guaranteed saving £750 year 8 year payback and 1 tonne of CO2 each year, DIY £3k 4 year payback!?!
@@TomTomicMic I don't live in China, the largest producer of renewable energy, whose government is ahead of its target in phasing out fossils. What I have done is replaced a broken 20 year old gas boiler which produced two Tonnes of CO2 per year, this was connected to 40 year old radiators and microbore pipework which would not be suitable for any modern low temperature flow system. What was also replaced was a 60 year old gravity fed HW Cylinder with mains pressure smart cylinder. I have not spend a penny on insulation for over ten years, I have 75mm cavity wall insulation, 12 year old double glazing (Argon filled), and about 75mm roof insulation. I have no Solar PV, nor battery. Total cost to me £4k after grant, about the same I would have paid to get only old boiler replaced. Payback time for me, zero. House warm 24/7 (two bedroom mid 1960's semi'), 13kWh of electricity per day for heating & HW at present. Outside temperature currently 4.8C. That's a winter total electricity bill of less than £150 a Month on a 28p tariff (four nights below zero). Heating SCOP over last three weeks 4.28. It's performing better than I expected. Nothing to be lost in getting a free survey done, if viable then back that up with a survey and supplier of your choice if required.
That's good to know. Honestly I never even considered that Octopus would do the EPC for me, I just knew that I needed an EPC before anyone could quote for me and claim the grant. I probably should have checked with them!
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech In Scotland an initial EPC is not required if an application is made through Home Energy Scotland who deal with all grant and interest free loans available for energy improvements. However an EPC needs to be obtained and submitted with grant claim application upon completion of works along with MCS certificates from installers. In Scotland process is for householder to apply for a grant via HES, grant is then offered when installation quote submitted, you then accept offer and advise installer they can start work, when completed MCS certificates issued and EPC obtained, submit these to HES to claim grant payment. I believe in England installer processes BUS grant claim.
I’d say around 9. Out of 10. Installations I go to have radiators that don’t get changed and are undersized. Some also needed 22 mm pipe run to rads not 15 mm. So get rad sizes checked
Yeah I did my own calculations on the radiators to compare with what Octopus provided. I wasn't happy with the bedroom radiators being left unchanged to paid extra to upgrade them. All of the others were either upgraded on the advice of Octopus, or already sufficiently sized (I literally have 3 original radiators now, so all of the others were changed!). I wish I'd had the living room one changed though too if only for cosmetic reasons. I may get someone in to do that and put in a slightly more powerful one, although it is a large K2 right now.
Thank you! And yes, the rough quote for a straight boiler replacement was £2k - £2.5k. That excluded replacing the tank, so I could easily add another £1.5k to that for a new unvented tank + conversion + shower.
@tarkadahl1985 lol good point Yeah definitely I'm actually considering an air 2 air system as my downstairs is open plan and the radiators and underfloor heating in one room don't get the downstairs up to temperature and obviously I'd have the extra bonus of air con in summer. Although I don't think there are any grants for that.
@@leehartshorn1479 nope, A2A and cooling is a straight nope! I funnily could reverse my vaillant system so it cools the radiators, could get them down to 5° easily and cool in summer just need to worry about condensation
@Speak to the Geek - worth noting that MCS regulations are imminently being changed and the planning for noise will likely disappear in all but the most extreme circumstances.
MCS regulations were being scrutinised by the Welsh Government in a recent report. I'm not sure what the outcome will be but I certainly know they are under pressure to revise them. Octopus are very much by the book on sticking with those rules.
Any idea of timescales for changes as I already have a A2A HP for 2 rooms and the new location will be LoS from my neighbours so will need planning permission. I was hoping to avoid this.
@hypercatjohn Don't think it will disappear but perhaps downgraded a bit to allow for quieter modern heat pumps. From Scotland website :- "The current PDR rely on the standards set out in MCS-020, including maximum noise levels, an approach we believe is effective. However, where more than one ASHP is installed on a building containing multiple dwellings, it may be appropriate to also specify restrictions on the size of the individual ASHPs and/or a minimum separation distance from other dwellings within the building (horizontally or vertically). This would be in addition to the requirement to comply with MCS-020 standards, which we are minded to retain."
@@_Dougaldog restricting the size of the hp... Jesus wept, governments need abolishing and children putting in charge. Absolutely no grey matter between them.
Whilst your 'wheeler dealing' and delays enabled you to benefit from the increased grant, the cost of the heat pump installation was over £11,000 so anyone who cannot qualify for a grant or when the grants run out will have to find the £11000 to save not a lot over many years.
If they follow certain guidelines they can fall within 'permitted development rights' which means no permission needed, if not then permission needed. These can vary between UK members, with some currently being reviewed.
What’s the payback for all the money spent on this over complicated expense nonsense? What’s that point of removing a simple cheep to run efficient combi boiler? Would you spend £12-15 k of your own money on this? The Uk won’t make any difference to the worlds climate
Your question is the nonsense. The payback is my home is heated. Dude, are in love with me or something? You really hate heat pumps but you seem to be getting quite horny for all of my heat pump videos.
Definitely going to speak to Octopus about that referral - wish I'd know before I got my quote. But regardless of that THANKYOU for this video - I saw your comment about the green loan from Nationwide - so thought I'd see what my mortgage provider offers. Barclays offer 'greener home reward' which I've registered for £2000 for getting a heat pump installed - that takes my Octopus quote from £2728 down to £728!!!
Glad to have helped! I think a lot of providers have some sort of scheme. That Barclays one is especially generous. Nationwide do similar (I think £500, called 'Green Reward') but it's for new mortgages.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Scottish government were certainly offering interest free loans over and above any grant, as an incentive to improving all things in energy efficiency.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I tried asking to register you as a referrer by giving your name, but haven't been able to do so. From Octopus "Yes, our referral scheme should now be active! You'll need to provide a referral code in order to claim this, which your referee will need to ask their salesperson or install support coordinator for." Any chance you have that code please?
Oh hang on, that’s for the heat pump referral, I’ll drop them a message now and get that code which is probably different. I’ll reply as soon as I hear back
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I’m just about to head down the Octopus Energy heatpump route. My quote is £8100 less the £7500 grant and as in England our restrictions are just 1 metre from boundary but has to be below a certain dB reading at my neighbours bedroom window, all is good though so no need for planning permission. Interestingly I got three other companies to quote none were less than £15000 to 20000 for the same install and all wanted 300 to 500 non returnable payment for the survey although all would deduct it if I went ahead. None would deduct the grant from the bill all wanted full payment on completion and then they would give me the certificate to claim the grant. Seems there are a lot of get rich quick companies just the same as with solar installations. Well done Octopus Energy, in my opinion the only honest company out there.
I'd say there are a real mixture of companies out there and it's really difficult to know who to trust as a consumer. If my home had needed specialist treatment outside of Octopus's designs then I would only have gone with a Heat Geek guaranteed company. Using Octopus did provide me with a level of confidence as they are only tackling the jobs they know for certain they can achieve acceptable results with.
They all wanted full payment because they're not billionaire mega companies like Octopus, totally normal. I was quoted £27k before BUS grant. The install would have been infinitely better than Octopuses though, without doubt.
@@Soulrollsdeep How do you know it would have been better did you have it done, I get you can spend more on ASHP but the 15K I save will more than cover a replacement at a later date if needs be .
@@chrisbowler8200 The attention to detail during the survey surpassed Octopus in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. The level of detail in the design (which was discussed in situ and in a very detailed follow up set of documents) was also beyond what Octopus could muster, and the SCOP would have been over 5, guaranteed. It was night and day.
@@Soulrollsdeep
In that case you'll be blowing OVO's trumpet, they've teamed up with Heat Geek franchise.
My ASHP was installed by Octopus in June 22. Four bed detached 1990s house with EPC rating of B85 with 270mm loft insulation , cavity wall insulation and recently installed replacement double glazing (original wooden frames were shot). Survey showed 6.6kW heat requirement @ -2deg so had 7kW Daikin Altherma 2 installed along with 11/14 rads replaced, new sealed tank. No internal pipework replaced as had a 15mm system. Cost was £11250 less £5000 grant and £250 off as early adopter so net £6000. The install went well and the octopus staff were great and very professional, tidy and good banter. Design sCOP heat was 3.4 DHW 1.7 based on 50 deg flow @-2ext. I insisted on weather compensation at commissioning and setup was 50deg@-2ext/35deg@18ext. In December 2022 it was obvious that these settings were too high and after loads of tweaking now have them at 50deg@-15ext/25deg@18ext which keeps house at 20-21deg downstairs and 18-19deg upstairs. sCOP year one 3.63 heating and 2.51 DHW but looking like will be better year two now have settled on final weather comp settings. My only regret is I didn't ask Octopus to quote for larger radiators so that design could have been for lower flow temps as I suspect this would have not added very much to the quote. But all in all I am very happy with the system and pleased to have no gas. Just waiting for SGN to finally sever the gas connection as it is only capped in the meter box atm.
I still haven't fiddled with the weather comp, got to do some serious reading up on that before I fiddle!
Octopus won't design with bigger rads, unfortunately. Some customers seen to have wrangled this, but they design at 50c flow temp and that's your lot.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Basically when we got to Dec 22 and it was sub zero the house was too warm so I gradually decreased the top end from 50⁰@-2⁰ext to 50⁰@-15⁰ext so rooms stayed at required temps. It was trial and error but easy to do. Similarly altered top end on warmer days and found the sweet spot so that rooms right temp and virtually no cycling occurs. I have set up Home Assistant to enable me to visualise flow return temps, study, living room and bedroom temps and external temps . I also use a spare CT clamp attached to a Harvi to monitor the power usage of the heat pump in HA.
My experience with Octopus in as nutshell a manner as I can make it:
Overall initial quote including BUS grant and deposit of £500 plus they wanted to give me £250 extra from Daikin: £3350ish
Survey performed in early May 2023
I was advised I needed planning permission as it was "1db over noise limit". Worth noting they did NOT do a sound test process and didn't ask me what the semi detached neighbour's windows are (bathrooms, aka uninhabitable rooms). The nearest habitable room was circa 9m away.
Accepted quote, attempted planning process - total outlay for that including scale drawings: £500ish.
Survey showed overall temp target was 18 degrees throughout the 1st and 2nd floor, downstairs with UFH was including but target temp blank and heat loss blank. Total estimated electricity usage for heating and HW would be 3500kwh-ish. All radiators (double panel throughout) would remain as-is. SCOP was estimated at 3.8 for heating, can't remember water SCOP. Unit would be the 8kw Daikin variant with a 250L water tank.
I queried radiator schedule and flow temp of 50c. Advised neither can be changed and it is what it is, take it or leave it
Planning permission became so tiresome (council wanted independent sound testing done. ALL my neighbours have ASHP, utterly bizarre) so I gave up and asked Octopus to come back resurvey it. Second guy came, equally as useless in the sound test department. Didn't contemplate room type, distance, hedge in way, line of sight, all the usual basics
Advised I could have the pump on the other side of the front of my house. This meant pipework would run either through to my kitchen, up through the brand new kitchen worktop, mean cupboards coming out the wall, running through the hallway, into the downstairs WC, through the utility room and eventually plumbing into the hot water tank. Said no to this as it would have been ugly as hell and ruin the house aesthetic.
Spoke to other installers online and they all advised the planning was unrequired. Queried with Octopus and they relented, advising it could be installed in the original spot, meaning a clean straight run to the HWT. This is January 2024 at this point.
Installer visited, told me our Geberit pipework isn't compatible with an ASHP due to 'pressure levels'. Reminder: ALL my neighbours have ASHP and they all run fantastically - we ALL have the same pipework as we're in a gated community with all properties built by the same developer. I was advised a full repipe would be required. This at first was down to me to source a supplier to sort, then received an update advising Octopus would do it at an additional cost of £4500
I had an independent supplier (with an exceptional reputation) come and survey, they advised the spine of the heating pipework would need changing, but not a full repipe. ALL 14 radiators would need changing to larger variants, some K3. UFH downstairs would be complemented with some small additional radiators. Heating SCOP would be over 5, water would be over 4. 5kw Vaillant ASHP installed in the preferred spot out front without question, immediately passed sound test. £27k install cost before BUS grant, ouch - but then, I know it'd have been a much better job than Octopus.
All in all, decided to sack the whole thing off and go with A2A. We've got an immersion heater and tank anyway and overnight rates make that cheap (circa £45p) to charge. We have 4kw solar perfectly south facing in SE England and 24kwh of battery. We can have 7 Fujitsu units installed throughout the property for £8600ish - and I get cooling during the summer and a COP of at least 4. We'll leave the existing electric boiler in place to aid on those rare super cold snaps if the A2A doesn't quite cut it. We're lucky that 5 of the 7 spots having a unit installed are on the same wall, so two split units down the side of the house (no ugly pumps out front or back) with straight trunking and we're good to go.
Overall, the experience with Octopus has been laborious. The customer reps I've dealt with have been very nice, accommodating, etc - but the issue seems to lay at the technical team end, who you can't speak to and never visit the property. So just bare in mind you may run into any of the above and should challenge all of it. It felt very 'Mr Potato Head' rather than a tailored install, which I can understand as they're working to tight constraints to keep the overall cost to consumers down.
Would I recommend them? Yeah, why not, there's a lot of similar stories online, but then I know they're successfully installing way more than they are losing. But do be prepared for lots of hoops.
I totally agree with your "Mr Potato Head" analogy - that is why I chose them though. I didn't have the same experience as you obviously, but the 'closest fit' template install model based on their R&D installations is how they keep the cost down and are able to provide an adequate solution for the masses. Obviously an independent installer could do a better custom job for you, but not everyone wants the 'Rolls Royce' when a Dacia Sandero will get them from A to B. Nothing wrong with your decision to go with A2A either in my opinion, totally valid route with its own advantages. Shame there's no grant for those at the moment.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech The A2A is actually more expensive than the Octopus install, but far less invasive. And can always go to Octopus in the future once the cosy 6 is out, wouldn't mind giving that a try!
If thats a nutshell its a massive NUT.
Hello. I have the same problem with Octopus. They said I have to apply for planning permission for just 1decibel. Maximum sound noise is 42 dB an I have 43db. I have to pay £322 for planning permision. Do you think to go forward to pay £322 or to tell them to cone to check again noise level? Thank you.
Great breakdown and detail, the 0% interest loan is a great idea by Nationwide
Even if I didn't need the loan, it would seem silly not to take them up on the offer!
Thanks for that. I got quoted just under £9k by British Gas after the grant. I originally signed up but then back tracked, that was just too much. A month or so later I tried Octopus, £3.25K after the grant. I like to try and support UK manufacturing so at the moment I'm holding on to get the Octopus Cosy 6 (manufactured by what was previously called RED in NI) installed when it is finally gets released.
I've seen that they are already installing the Cosy 6 so it might be worth dropping them a message.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I spoke to them a couple off days ago and they said it was still going through testing. Anyhow, there is such a back log that I'm unlikely to get anything fitted until September time at the moment!
I am still awaiting tech specs for the Cosy 6. Want to know what the COP is before I consider it. It makes sense that it won't be the best as they run at a higher temp so it's easy to retrofit.
@eddyd8745
Mitsubishi are manufactured at a factory in Livingston, Vaillant at Belper in Derbyshire, and possibly others do as well as they're mostly big internationals.
@@_Dougaldog Yes, I was originally looking at the Valiant because it was a UK manufacture and is fitted by British Gas. BG was just far too expensive even after the grant (nearly 3 times Octopus price).
Thanks for the video, very helpful. I wonder if you would wouldmind answering a question? . We have two digital showers that are currently running on a vented, non pressurised system. Please can you advise if you had a choice about pressurised v non pressurised or does it have to be pressurised?
My understanding is that it must be moved to a sealed/unvented system. But, I'm not a plumber, you should confirm that'll with an installer. An unvented system is considered my hygienic due to no open water tanks, but I understand your conundrum.
Many thanks, yes I replaced one of the aqualisa units last year at a cost of £700 for the new unit. Am a bit reluctant to replace two units but guess I could sell on like you did with some of your components. Thanks again for your helpful videos.
That’s not a bad price for the whole install. My own ASHP installed just over 2 years ago was a major order of magnitude more than that. I was eligible for the previous RHI grant (£11k repaid quarterly over 7 years, and its CPI linked so been going up a lot recently😮), but my cost to change was still double yours.
The site survey, EPC and quote were all free upfront. The big cost difference was due to the size of the property they calculated I’d need a 15kW ASHP and there wasn’t an MCS certified one at the time, so I had to have two 9kW ASHP’s which didn’t come cheap.
In the install we had almost all the radiators replaced but in the two years afterwards I’ve had one of those replaced (because we had an under-sized one fitted which was a mistake), and just now had the towel rails in the kitchen and utility room changed as well.
The house is comfortable and warm with annual running costs around £1400, similar to the oil central heating system we replaced.
Yup I’m very pleased with the price! You never can predict what incentives the government might offer so you have to take what’s available at the time of install I guess. Your system sounds like it’s for a large property?
Ive got my pre install visit next month. Install in April. 4 bed 70's semi. Octopus are fitting a 8kW Daikin HP, replacing 7 rads/towel rails. Hoping all goes well, will be ditching the gas meter.
I'm sure you'll be very pleased with it - check out my whole series to see the installation process if you're interested.
Well that was such a helpful video. I've binged the playlist of heat pump instal and now feel a little more assured about our future heating system. We have exactly the same Potterton boiler you had and its approaching 21 years old and reaching the end of its life. I've checked out the latest .GOV website for EPC requirements. Apparently in early May 2024 the government will relax the rules and allow a ASHP to be fitted regardless of the recommendations. So I'm waiting a bit for that to happen before starting the process of getting a quote from Octopus. Thank you so much for your very informative videos. - Paul
I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it useful, one of my main intentions was to encourage others to do the same and show that it's a good move to make if you're able to. Don't forget to use a referral code to get £100 off your Octopus installation costs. Ideally if you use mine then I get £100 credit too :) Code is A-E16D01B4
Thanks for this series of videos. I have what looks like the same old boiler as you so I'm also looking at Octopus HP install as it will be cheaper than a gas boiler. Did you sell the old boiler? There still seem to be many second hand parts advertised for them, particularly the PCB.
I didn’t think to try and salvage the old boiler sadly. I never considered it would be worth much and the installers took it away for recycling.
My Mum is having hers installed a week on Monday. Our quote is £100 after paying the survey fee of £500. We need planning permission too. We are 1db over and can’t move it.
As much as I recommend Octopus, it may be worth looking at a supplier who can provide a quieter heat pump. It was cost a few hundred pounds and take months to get planning permission, if it is indeed granted, in my experience. At the very least have a chat with Octopus and see if they can swap for a different heat pump.
I can almost guarantee you're not 1db over. Let me know if you want to hear more on this as I can't be bothered typing it if you're going to either miss this reply or ignore me 👍👍
@@Soulrollsdeep I would be interested to hear more. They have quoted a Daikin EDLA04E2V3. I will be interested to see how load my Mum's is. They are going to cover the planning permissions costs if I go ahead. It made me think at which point this rule will be removed. If councils think heat pumps are noisy, as more and more people get them, are housing estates going to have a constant hum of heat pumps?
@@bazcurtis178 No problem. Firstly, the MCS review, I believe, has been concluded. Unsure when or what the changes will be, but the most likely is the removal of the noise limitations - they currently stop all terraced, flats, etc, from having one without arduous planning.
Anyway. I was quoted by Octopus for an 8kw Daikin model, the survey team did NOT do a proper sound summary test. They clearly just went off the documentation and deemed it 1db over (noticing a trend, here?). Watch this: ruclips.net/video/tXO3AaJcb-0/видео.html (How To Complete A Heat Pump Noise Calculation Form, in case the link doesn't work) you can do this yourself. Ours is a semi, we mirror our neighbours (so bathroom backs onto bathroom, etc) - nearest habitable window is at least 9m away, we have a bush in the way and there is no line of sight. So we didn't need planning! I paid for this and Octopus will be refunding me accordingly. Challenge this, chances are you don't need it but you know what to do via the link and can always let them crack on if it turns out you do need it.
Hope this helps.
@@Soulrollsdeep this is what Octopus told me - However, the noise assessment came out at 43db, only 1 db over the limit of 42db which would fall into permitted development. This is also rounded up (MCS building regs determine this), so may be closer to 42db anyway. Each planning authority seems to have its own rules as to who they accept and reject, but in my experience being that close to permitted development I wouldn’t foresee any issues
Ours cost £2700 after the grant. Octopus paid for the EPC also £51 to submit a question to Planning Office and promised to pay for a planning application if needed. We only needed 3 new rads and no new pipe work.
Only 3 radiators is good going, is it all up and running nicely now then?
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Well I think I should give more details. They wanted to change 6 but I moved the 3 larger ones to the position of the other 3. I also added extra 1 (£50) to my lounge. That brought the quote down from £2900. I did this work myself. Doing so got the design flow rate from 50° down to 40°. Been up and running for nearly 4 month and the average cop is 4.3
I thought it had to be £5k cost to get the Nationwide greener mortgage? I'm not sure if my heat pump install would come to more than that (heat loss survey this month) and also not sure if upping my battery capacity counts as 'green'. Good to hear from someone who's got it!
You are correct, the total cost for all green improvements must be more than £5k. When I took the loan out it was - see the original quote minus the old BUS grant plus the required shower and planning permission etc, I checked and those were all allowed because it was part of the total cost of the project and required to complete it. The BUS grant increasing after the loan had been issued was unexpected and does take me below the threshold but as the loan had already been given there's no option for handing it back early without penalty. I've also spent some on loft insulation too but I do need to spend the rest on other green improvements if I can.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Ah, I hadn't appreciated the timing of the grant changing. I think I'll email my broker and see if batteries count. Maybe I can stick the induction hob on there too, seeing as how that's needed in addition to the heat pump to get off gas...
We had a quote of £1138 which i feel is almost too good to refuse, waiting for the survey now to see if the sums will add up. Based upon my own assessment on heat punk it calculated 3.65 SCOP, to which i was hoping for more.
I think a SCOP of 3.65 is reasonable. Don't forget you can always get a much more efficient system from a custom-designed independent Heat Geek approved installer. It's whether you think the additional cost of using those installers is worth it for the most efficient system. For me personally I am happy with SCOP I am getting, and the extra cost of something more efficient would have priced me out of it. I'd rather be 'more efficient' than nothing at all!
I've just been quoted £6800 by Octopus (after grant). I don't understand what's that's based on. All i tell them is what type of house and what the current heating it.
It's based on your EPC results, existing boiler/heating system, and house size/type. They basically have estimations for installations and use those categories to come up with the closest fit. They did the same to me and stuck to that price even after the survey.
I have just put a offer in on a house but it has a old oil central heating will this cost more to change any help be much appreciated thanks
I wouldn’t have a clue sorry especially with oil - I’m an end customer and not an installer so you are best off contacting a few companies to find your range.
my 50 is in from octopus, you mention my initials JN, not bad getting a salmon for just signing up. 🙂
Yup, it landed in my account this morning too, thank you very much and welcome to the cult! :)
would be able to share the energy monitor you bought? well done with you videos. another 2 months wait for us.
It's a Shelly EM Pro.
I did wonder about the energy monitor as well as my ASHP came with 3 meters to measure the throughput but since that is up in the loft (where the control panel is) I bought a Shelly EM1 last year so I could get more readily available data into Home Assistant.
I do see about 4-7% over-read on the Shelly though compared to the meter readings. Annoying and can’t find any way of recalibrating. Still, very useful to see daily consumption of the ASHP alongside other battery data
Can you tell us more about the energy monitor. Did you fit it, or did Octopus do it for you?
It's a Shelly Pro EM. The electrician left space in the outdoor consumer unit for me and I installed it myself. Shelly make two EMs, the regular module one is cheaper, but the Pro one works out only a few pounds more and has a rated accuracy level and also fits nicely in a DIN format.
Funny you should mention the digital shower, im currently looking into this as well, do you know of any that work with Home Assistant, im struggling to find any that do
This one works with a proper bodge, sort of... and I'll be covering it in a future video. We are really talking a bodge though, as in you end up with a button in HA that can turn it on or off but no sort of feedback on its state or any monitoring.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTechimagine triggering it unintentionally and it running for a week while on holiday.
@@edc1569It's way smarter than that! It has presets which all have time limits, so it would never run for longer than say 15 minutes anyway. It would also cut out as soon as the temperature dropped too low because the tank has run out.
The installer show in June @NEC, most of the big names are there and i'll be asking about this
I’m intrigued by the planning permission needed? What was that for?
All covered by other videos in the series ruclips.net/video/nO0OuB0AAoU/видео.html
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech sorry I have just seen this. Thank you for doing this all. Really helpful. Are you happy with it? I’m looking at pulling the trigger on it.
@@grizzlybear1633 Very happy with it, it's worked brilliantly over the winter. If you're going with Octopus then don't forget to give them my referral code (A-E16D01B4) and you'll get £100 off (I'll get £100 credit too). Octopus aftercare has been great too, and the price was very competitive. It probably won't be the most efficient system possible but it will give acceptable performance. Independent Heat Geek installers are more likely to give you the most efficient system but they tend to cost more up front too. It just depends on your priorities.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTechI will use that thank you.
What energy monitor did you get?
I’m using a Shelly Pro EM
Thank you for the video.
Do you have access and can you share an itemised quote or invoice? I'm trying to understand where these elevated numbers are coming from? I had a quote from Octopus for £11k , British Gas = 14k and EDF =£15k. Heat pump and HWC for installers are around £3.5k for Daikin and £4k for Vaillant (that's for 5kW units with 180L slimline cylinder) I don't need to change any radiators. 28mm copper pipe is £30 per 3 meters, lets say £500 for pipework. £500 for isolators and cables. Is (labour) installation of the system £7k??? Really What am I missing?
I currently have combi boiler with flow temperature of 37 deg. My home temperature is set to 21 degrees nice and cosy throughout the winter. BG expert told me I need bigger radiators and system will be commissioned at 50 degrees. It seems to me that some companies are forcing customers to pay for unnecessary extras, so they can make margins and take commission.
No I don’t have an itemised invoice. The commissioned flow temperature refers to a worst case 50 degrees when it’s -5 probably outside, your design docs will confirm that. The flow temperature will be dynamic and mine is usually 30 degrees or so
Bigger radiators are because you will want to run at a lower flow temperature most of the time in order to make it more efficient so they need to output more power to battle against your home’s heat loss
I enjoyed your balance sheet which showed that the HP was not much more than for anew boile. But you didn't say anything about the space lost in your house for the equipment and the running costs for the HP V a boiler. Maybe thats for the next video
I have mentioned about the sauce required for the system a number of times in this series of videos so I’m not trying to sweep that issue under the carpet by any means. There is also a dedicated video do running costs after installation, and a new update video being published this Saturday actually.
😕 I though a heat pump heated a tank slowly so its not mains pressure? In that case why would you need a mains pressure shower?
The two things are not connected. The hot water tank is fed by the cold mains feed, therefore all taps in the house are at mains pressure. Previously my hot water tank was fed by an open cold water tank in the loft which provided the pressure. That difference meant I had to swap the shower. As for heating slowly yes, that’s what it does but that has no relevance to the water pressure
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech After thinking about it you are right. I am in the same position regarding a shower. Current system is open vented and a HP (or new combi) would be a sealed system, ie. would be moving from gravity fed to mains pressure.
So, you prefer to take out loans for depreciating assets (car), but not for appreciating assets (the house). Give your head a wobble?
I consider the car an ongoing cost of living, required in order to participate in the modern way of life therefore finance can make sense as overall it enables me to go to work, earn money, pay for the rest of my life. I don't consider it an asset so much as a means to an end. For a house, a mortgage is fine as it's an appreciating asset as you say, but for general home improvements like a bathroom renovation or new kitchen, generally that is also depreciating and not totally necessary if you already have a functioning bathroom/kitchen and just fancy a makeover... therefore any loan you took out on that would have no financial justification really and is because "you wanted a new one", so I stick to my own wobble-headed guns there and say yes I would not usually take out loans for home improvements and instead save up for the things that would be nice to have, the loans are for the things I need to have.
As Octopus customer on their solar and ev tariff would work out far to expensive as have microbore thus needing pipe and rads to be replaced replastering all downstairs walls, new hot water storage tank and probably new shower system or as I bought couple years back replacement Worcester combi installed for just over £2000
Have you seen my other videos? I also had microbore and didn’t need any upgrades to the pipes.
My combi costs £2.50 (inc s/c)a day for heat an water 4 people in 4 bedroom house temp set at 19. I have 8kwh of solar and 19kwh of battery storage and averages at £1 (inc s/c) per day over the whole year. So a heat pump which octopus want £4500 in my case has no benefit at all. I went down the route of extra insulation everywhere I could. Cheaper and more long term beneficial.
Every home is different. I had a really old inefficient boiler which needed to be replaced anyway so I was basically in the perfect position to have a heat pump and see the most benefit
Barring the two tonnes of CO2 produced each year by average gas boiler, which is no long term benefit to anybody. Did your Octopus quote include the grant ?
@@_Dougaldog For every two tonne we create China produces 60 tonne, people have to be able to afford the energy they use, it is important, I would like retro fit insulation, solar 24 hour battery back up and an ashp but that will be £30k +, when insulating the internal of the external walls (50mm phen foam and plasterboard) will be £6k (Loft already insulated but further insulation only hundreds of pounds) and reduce bills by half guaranteed saving £750 year 8 year payback and 1 tonne of CO2 each year, DIY £3k 4 year payback!?!
@@TomTomicMic
I don't live in China, the largest producer of renewable energy, whose government is ahead of its target in phasing out fossils.
What I have done is replaced a broken 20 year old gas boiler which produced two Tonnes of CO2 per year, this was connected to 40 year old radiators and microbore pipework which would not be suitable for any modern low temperature flow system.
What was also replaced was a 60 year old gravity fed HW Cylinder with mains pressure smart cylinder.
I have not spend a penny on insulation for over ten years, I have 75mm cavity wall insulation, 12 year old double glazing (Argon filled), and about 75mm roof insulation. I have no Solar PV, nor battery.
Total cost to me £4k after grant, about the same I would have paid to get only old boiler replaced.
Payback time for me, zero.
House warm 24/7 (two bedroom mid 1960's semi'), 13kWh of electricity per day for heating & HW at present. Outside temperature currently 4.8C. That's a winter total electricity bill of less than £150 a Month on a 28p tariff (four nights below zero).
Heating SCOP over last three weeks 4.28.
It's performing better than I expected.
Nothing to be lost in getting a free survey done, if viable then back that up with a survey and supplier of your choice if required.
For the benefit of others, Octopus carried out my EPC for free.
That's good to know. Honestly I never even considered that Octopus would do the EPC for me, I just knew that I needed an EPC before anyone could quote for me and claim the grant. I probably should have checked with them!
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech
In Scotland an initial EPC is not required if an application is made through Home Energy Scotland who deal with all grant and interest free loans available for energy improvements.
However an EPC needs to be obtained and submitted with grant claim application upon completion of works along with MCS certificates from installers.
In Scotland process is for householder to apply for a grant via HES, grant is then offered when installation quote submitted, you then accept offer and advise installer they can start work, when completed MCS certificates issued and EPC obtained, submit these to HES to claim grant payment.
I believe in England installer processes BUS grant claim.
I’d say around 9. Out of 10. Installations I go to have radiators that don’t get changed and are undersized. Some also needed 22 mm pipe run to rads not 15 mm. So get rad sizes checked
Yeah I did my own calculations on the radiators to compare with what Octopus provided. I wasn't happy with the bedroom radiators being left unchanged to paid extra to upgrade them. All of the others were either upgraded on the advice of Octopus, or already sufficiently sized (I literally have 3 original radiators now, so all of the others were changed!). I wish I'd had the living room one changed though too if only for cosmetic reasons. I may get someone in to do that and put in a slightly more powerful one, although it is a large K2 right now.
Lets be honest a new gas boiler woupd have probably cost you £1500-2000 anyway!
Thank you! And yes, the rough quote for a straight boiler replacement was £2k - £2.5k. That excluded replacing the tank, so I could easily add another £1.5k to that for a new unvented tank + conversion + shower.
I paid just over 3k to replace my boiler for a worster bosch so if it works well for you I'd say you've done alright there
@@leehartshorn1479 don't forget with an ashp you get the "hOw LoNg Is ThE pAyBaCk" question as well 🤦♂️
@tarkadahl1985 lol good point
Yeah definitely
I'm actually considering an air 2 air system as my downstairs is open plan and the radiators and underfloor heating in one room don't get the downstairs up to temperature and obviously I'd have the extra bonus of air con in summer.
Although I don't think there are any grants for that.
@@leehartshorn1479 nope, A2A and cooling is a straight nope! I funnily could reverse my vaillant system so it cools the radiators, could get them down to 5° easily and cool in summer just need to worry about condensation
@Speak to the Geek - worth noting that MCS regulations are imminently being changed and the planning for noise will likely disappear in all but the most extreme circumstances.
MCS regulations were being scrutinised by the Welsh Government in a recent report. I'm not sure what the outcome will be but I certainly know they are under pressure to revise them. Octopus are very much by the book on sticking with those rules.
Any idea of timescales for changes as I already have a A2A HP for 2 rooms and the new location will be LoS from my neighbours so will need planning permission. I was hoping to avoid this.
@@darrenadams2640 Unsure TBH, worth searching on the internet for 👍👍
@hypercatjohn
Don't think it will disappear but perhaps downgraded a bit to allow for quieter modern heat pumps.
From Scotland website :-
"The current PDR rely on the standards set out in MCS-020, including maximum noise levels, an approach we believe is effective. However, where more than one ASHP is installed on a building containing multiple dwellings, it may be appropriate to also specify restrictions on the size of the individual ASHPs and/or a minimum separation distance from other dwellings within the building (horizontally or vertically). This would be in addition to the requirement to comply with MCS-020 standards, which we are minded to retain."
@@_Dougaldog restricting the size of the hp... Jesus wept, governments need abolishing and children putting in charge. Absolutely no grey matter between them.
Whilst your 'wheeler dealing' and delays enabled you to benefit from the increased grant, the cost of the heat pump installation was over £11,000 so anyone who cannot qualify for a grant or when the grants run out will have to find the £11000 to save not a lot over many years.
It's not about saving money. This is a big misnomer with heat pump - they cost about the same to run as a gas boiler. Its value is in heating my home.
❤for selling the old stuff! ❤
Better someone else make use than I chuck in the bin, and £££ as a bonus!
Sorry I’m not convinced
I’ll stick to gas
Expensive to run and doesn’t give out enough heat
I’ve literally just given you the data that proves otherwise! But nobody is forcing you to switch so you can use gas for as long as it’s available
Running costs are shown in my latest video too so check that out. TLDR: costs the same to run and puts out loads of heat
Why would you need planning permission for a heat pump?
MCS-020 requirements - see this video I made on it: ruclips.net/video/gbhxU1kFmAM/видео.html
If they follow certain guidelines they can fall within 'permitted development rights' which means no permission needed, if not then permission needed.
These can vary between UK members, with some currently being reviewed.
What’s the payback for all the money spent on this over complicated expense nonsense? What’s that point of removing a simple cheep to run efficient combi boiler? Would you spend £12-15 k of your own money on this? The Uk won’t make any difference to the worlds climate
Your question is the nonsense. The payback is my home is heated. Dude, are in love with me or something? You really hate heat pumps but you seem to be getting quite horny for all of my heat pump videos.
He is talking bollocks
Me?
Definitely going to speak to Octopus about that referral - wish I'd know before I got my quote. But regardless of that THANKYOU for this video - I saw your comment about the green loan from Nationwide - so thought I'd see what my mortgage provider offers. Barclays offer 'greener home reward' which I've registered for £2000 for getting a heat pump installed - that takes my Octopus quote from £2728 down to £728!!!
Glad to have helped! I think a lot of providers have some sort of scheme. That Barclays one is especially generous. Nationwide do similar (I think £500, called 'Green Reward') but it's for new mortgages.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech
Scottish government were certainly offering interest free loans over and above any grant, as an incentive to improving all things in energy efficiency.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I tried asking to register you as a referrer by giving your name, but haven't been able to do so. From Octopus "Yes, our referral scheme should now be active! You'll need to provide a referral code in order to claim this, which your referee will need to ask their salesperson or install support coordinator for." Any chance you have that code please?
Oh hang on, that’s for the heat pump referral, I’ll drop them a message now and get that code which is probably different. I’ll reply as soon as I hear back
@@TikTok-il9hx Hi! I have the referral code, please quote A-E16D01B4 to your salesperson.