Worth me tossing out that we covered the story of the Arkham series over on Lore Dump. If you want to hear my terrible Joker impression or my friends solve some riddles, this is the series for you 🦇🦇👇👇 ruclips.net/video/7Oqy9gciEdc/видео.html
So, there's a throwaway line in the last Lore Dump where you tell Chase something like, "This is the last Batman Arkham story," and I remember hearing that and thinking, "mmm... not quite true, but I imagine we'll hear more on that soon." Imagine my surprise when that observation becomes relevant the _next day_ . Thanks for your hard work man, it's greatly appreciated on this otherwise dreary day.
@@creecher1118 Chase has been asking me questions so I feel I owe it them now after making them like Batman 😂 I’m gonna do it when the game gets cancelled
The Arkham lore dumps were the best yet, closely followed by the Bioshock ones. The recurring “Batman is Bruce Wayne” joke made me smile every time, and it was great seeing Chase get more into the lore with each one.
I really hate Harley trying to take the moral high ground when killing Batman. It’s just… Harley you tortured a teenager and murdered a ton of innocent people.
@@OrionDawn15it’s sad because you can tell they have in the audio tapes they literally reference obscure moments but than disregard key moments in game
I mean from an objective standpoint, Harley is an unhinged maniac, but from her perspective, she might see Batman as a bully. I mean remember she was manipulated by the Joker into believing that he was a misunderstood victim and she's watched Batman beat him to a bloody pulp multiple times. She might retain that old sentiment that Batman is somehow the bad guy.
I always thought Suicide Squad would work better as an XCOM or Darkest Dungeon-type game, where you play as Waller and have to strategize which villains to send out, managing their relationships, and dealing with the consequences of perma-death. Like if you make a bad call and Deadshot dies in a mission, he's gone forever. You could even utilize the neck bombs as a tool, like if your squad is getting rebellious and stops obeying your in-game commands, you can detonate one of them. You lose a team member, but now the rest of the team will follow your orders perfectly. Or maybe it has the opposite of the intended effect, and your team panics and you lose complete control. In-between missions you can sentence team members to various "treatments" at Belle Reeve (like electroshock therapy) to get them back in line. Maybe different villains get buffs when they work together, or have negative status effects if you team them up with a rival. You can "recruit" new team members from Belle Reeve, but you have to learn their powers and personality and how best to uitilize them. There's so much potential for a strategy-team-management-type game with this property, I don't think shoehorning it into a live-service looter-shooter makes any use of what makes the Suicide Squad unique.
This genuinely sounds like a good idea, and a game I'd be down with playing. Midnight Suns wasn't perfect, but the tactical gameplay was excellent and showed that a superhero strategy game can be a ton of fun.
The weird thing about killing the Justice League is that the Crime Syndicate (an evil alt-universe version of them from a universe where the heroes are villains and vice versa) has been in DC Comics for over 50 years now. Heck, they even had a fairly recent crossover where they invade, neutralise all the heroes and have to be taken out by an alliance of villains. A better plot was right there waiting.
I don't even mind that they were killing the justice league, I just hate the way they do it , pissing on the flash, stripping green lantern down to his underwear, taking down Batman by reverse fear toxin bs then crapping all over him while he is disabled, and shooting superman. It all just signals that the current rocksteady devs hate these heroes and hate the previous games that came from them.
Unfortunately that's probably way too close to the plot of Injustice: Gods Among Us, the only good game DC have made since the original Arkham series. This game was always going to look bad, but it would look even worse if their combat was being help up against a system created by the mortal combat devs! (And if their incredibly shallow 'heroes mind-controlled to be evil' plot was up against Injustice's surprisingly deep facism metaphor) It would have made a lot more sense though, especially if they're insisting on a live service format, because you can send the CS back to earth 2/3 (I can't remember which one is the current home universe of the CS, they retconned it) and they can just keep coming back as often as you want!
Something that I really hate about current suicide squad is that DC is pushing them to be the anti hero justice league (or knockoff guardians) by putting them up against otherworldly threats. TSS does a great job with them because they were sent to cover up what the government did, starro just happened to escape. Waller even told them to leave instead of fighting him
The Suicide Squad is a black ops team, Assault on Arkham and TSS got that, KTJL and SS16 did not. They aren’t meant to kill gods, they take out a controversial leader or a popular terrorist who opposes American Government Interests.
the moment in the terrible Ayer suicide squad movie where someone asks how these guys are supposed to go up against the justice league and waller responds that it's because boomerang survived an encounter with the flash, a hero who *doesn't kill*, is just the perfect encapsulation of why putting them up against JLA-tier threats is a terrible idea. Flash chose not to murder Boomer, so deadshot can go toe to toe with superman, makes total sense!
They never use anyone with interesting power in Squad stories anymore, loser characters being able to use their niche gimmicks in creative ways to manage against unwinnable odds is such a evergreen concept but the squad is always just a bunch of characters with swords, guns + a big guy, it makes them so much more boring and less endearing compared to when the team is full of characters like Clock king, or Polka dot man or Count vertigo
Yeah it’s what I loved about them. They’re not world defenders, they’re black ops. Any story where they fight the Justice League feels like plot armor to me. Are we just turning every moderate human threat into prep time Batman now?
RUclipsrs make more money on bad videgames and films then studious that produce them do. It's a self-balancing act - if you got a bad game - at least you got some fun videos. What's even better is that you only interested in playing good games in the genres you enjoy, but you can watch videos about bad games in every genre.
It’s such a shame to see so many great studios walk this path where the only “live service” is getting to see a beloved studio destroy itself in real time.
Meh it can be done right look at Helldivers 2. WB overestimated Rocksteady’s skillset. This was a small studio that only did single player. They should have hired someone more experienced to make it.
@@inshal6420not to mention that rocksteady has become the “studio of Theseus.” Same name, completely different people from who gave us the Arkham series.
@@Azal423 yeah something weird definitely happened that caused the founders to leave. They randomly left in early 2023 which is really weird since the game was only a year away from release. Also when you look at the game there’s no way this took 9 years. Its gonna be interesting to see what happened behind the scenes when that stuff leaks. My best guess is this game looked really different until WB was having financial problems and Microsoft almost bought the gaming division. That’s when they switched to liveservice and had to rework the game. There are remnants of a good game. The Batman stuff looks like its taken from a different game. The way he’s haunting you and slowly taking out the Squad is really well done. I bet its a concept left over from an older pitch.
@@inshal6420Might want to pick something with a longer tenure as an example. Helldivers 2 is doing well and will probably continue to do well for a year or two, but the question is always what happens 5 years down the road for these sorts of games. I think Final Fantasy 14 might be a better example for this due to to it;s longevity and amount of content and expansion packs. Perhaps more importantly, it came out as a flop and slowly improved over time to showcase that Games as a service doesn't *only* need to go downhill. That said, Don't take this to mean I wish Helldivers 2 ill or anything like that, far from it. I love it's unintentional ability to create humor and just the sheer corniness of it's storytelling. I just think we should look further and longer for an example.
They could have made the Harley be the one to kill Bruce scene work simply by acknowledging the events of the Arkham games. Aside from saving her life a few time, him killing the Joker is probably what set Harley to change for the better. In a way he set her free. She could still hate him but put more respect before she returns the favor by freeing him from Braniac's control. After killing Batman, Harley said that "he would've wanted it", Batman can't live on knowing the fact he murder countless of innocent people, he needs to die. But then again this is Arkham Harley, an active participant to Jason Todd's torture and an accomplice in the torture and murder of a sick child, soapboxing on how Batman was a bad for being mean to criminals kinda falls flat any way you spin it
Much as I love the Arkham games, the clear disdain the writers have had for Harley as a character from the jump has always been their biggest failing, so getting that studio to make a game where Harley was a MC was never going to work, even without the game bearing the live-service curse.
@@Sapphykins Correction, it was never going to work if you tried to treat her like she was an anti-hero at any way. Unless you try to do what the later God of war games did. ( Honestly, trying to treat her like a anti-hero in any continuity, is a bit weird to me. )
Captain Boomerang’s relationship with Flash especially feels really dumb when you know the Rogues all have immense respect for Flash. Boomerang has always intentionally been a giant asshole but even he has always said that Flash and his battles were “legendary.” There’s a deep respect between the two even if they have immense dislike for each other. But here the respect is gone, just like how the rest of the Squad also have no respect for their respective heroes.
It’s funny how some people’s arguments against the game are as inconsistent as the game itself lol. I thought they literally paid respects to Batman and Wonder Woman when they died. Green Lantern and Flash mocked them so they didn’t really have a reason to say anything, but whatever
@@infinityrocks7360 Wonder Woman is the only one that gets even a modicum of respect from the Squad. But fine let’s discuss their relationships with their heroes, starting things off, these versions of the characters have met and interacted with their heroes for a long time, they have a history with each hero with the exception of Deadshot and Green Lantern. Harley and Batman’s relationship with each other is talked about plenty in the video in how it really doesn’t make much sense for Harley to not have much remorse or regret for killing Batman so that’s one mischaracterization of their relationship. Superman’s death is literally ignored by the plot essentially so I also won’t grace it with any acknowledgment. Boomerang and Flash’s relationship I already explained why I consider it a misuse of their characters. Deadshot himself is fine and it makes sense why he hates this version of Green Lantern but the video explains very well why this version of John sucks ass so this ends up being a somewhat inaccurate portrayal entirely about how the two would view each other. Finally King Shark has no direct connection to any hero specifically, and yet somehow he’s the only one that actually seems that he feels bad for killing them (sometimes). People like me are annoyed with how these characters are portrayed because, they aren’t anything like how the characters as we known them would actually act like, especially in comparison to their relationships with the heroes. Essay reply finished.
That brief history chapter is just proof that live service is the single worst thing to happen to video games. If this continues, with enough flops and layoffs because of this cancerous genre, we'll have another video game crash.
is that a abd thing? Indie will survive, so will Nintendo as they aren't beholders of the western game market. A crash would smoke out all the nasty greedy harpies keeping gaming hostage.
not really, all the people making the bad decisions would still be filthy rich and would all be given golden parachutes. The people actually doing the artistry and work would lose their jobs and be sent into a free fall with zero job security. Call me crazy but I don't think thousands of people losing their jobs is very epic. @@joseroa5243
Well thats the thing, before Destiny 2 went free to play and they vaulted 3 dlcs (which I am salty about as I was halfway through the warmind dlc when it was vaulted) the destiny franchise was somewhat successful. I do feel the live service model can work its just the devs keep making stupid and at times greedy decisions that ruins the game.
tbh i think it's a matter of context and how it's built helldivers 2 is live service but it's gameplay loop plays on a mix of macro and micro where missions you complete help contribute to a larger goal and for what it is it's a fun game to play at a base level. it's not necessarily an issue with the genre it's an issue with how AAA companies are trying to make the genre in an attempt to maximise how much they can milk out of the playerbase
If you look at the larger context of the layoffs, the state of esports and tech companies in general at the moment, I believe we're already in a very slow crash. It's not restricted to one part of the industry either, but seems to be the entire industry as a whole. Lots of people are gonna lose their jobs and lots of companies are going to look significantly leaner before this is over.
@@lazaroskarmaniolas7410agree to disagree I guess, I didn’t think even think Knights story was that bad, a few missed opportunities for sure, but bad? I wouldn’t say that. A 6 or 7/10 story sure, but a
@@garymcjerryi frankly think that the joker scene explaining things is why the story of AK failed horribly. It was the Killing Joke, but not told, instead it's literally "you" being in that telling and the Joker bashing it over your head OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again! Until you die, wake from the dead and be put to rest again. It's such a stupid way of handling it, clearly it was not written by the same guys that did the story thus far, and clearly when Rocksteady left the now hollow shell that remains. AK didn't have the worst story, because it really had other plotpoints it could hang off of, it had the worst telling of the Killing Joke since the Justice League movie.
@@TheKueiJin then I think we must have incredibly different tastes, which is perfectly fine lol. To me, the a large amount of the story of Arkham knight is clear allegories and metaphors. I look at it from a literary perspective of the story over the course of the 3 games (not including origins) and personally I’m fine with how they chose to do things. I know a lot of people personally dislike the inclusion of the joker, but again personally, I actually do quite like this conclusion. To me, this isn’t the joker. The joker died in city. He wasn’t brought back by the writers. This *isn’t the joker. This is Batman’s psychological manifestation *of the joker. It’s all in Batman’s head and that’s why I think it works. This isn’t the joker beating it into your head, these are Batmans thoughts. These are Batman’s doubts and words of admonishment to himself through the psychological profile of the joker. For example and evidence, we constantly see Batman get injected with fear toxin multiple times over the course of AK, he isn’t superhuman. He is effected by this and the resulting consequence I believe would be the joker. Of course you have the effect of the joker toxin, but then you compound fear toxin and bam, that’s why we get a more unhinged psychotic and mentally struggling Bruce. He’s literally becoming the embodiment, the reincarnation, of his largest fear. His biggest fear being to become like the men who killed his parents, to become a killer and a criminal, to become like Joker. Then you add on top of that, what joker did to Jason, the equivalent of his son. Playing on his other biggest fear, his inability to protect people, especially family. So now you’ve got Bruce, literally becoming his biggest fear, a psychotic killer, a criminal and, becoming the man who killed his son. Which plays in perfectly to batmans sense of utter guilt over Jason. He psychologically sees himself as the Killer, even if he logically knows it was the Joker. So of course that’s who he sees, that’s who he hallucinates, but it’s all fog and mirrors. It’s just Batman struggling with his mental state while on extreme amounts of drugs the entire game lol. Those moments where Joker “takes over” or you start tripping balls aren’t real, they’re metaphorical. It’s all Bruce baby. Ah sorry lol, didn’t mean to write a essay, those are just some examples for why I think it does actually work. Especially on a conceptual level. I did admit previously there were 100% some missed opportunities, and I do still believe that it’s not a flawless piece of execution, (especially regarding Red Hood) but I really would not put it into the realm of being a bad story.
Mother's Basement commented positively on this video? 🤔 Phew, I'll take that as a good sign! 🤞 _(Based on the all the Breadtube videos I've seen you provide your voice for.)_ I just started this 3.5 hour video, and I'm totally new to this channel...No obvious political markers leaning either way so far, so as usual I must prepare myself for a possible surprise conservative rant or the unfortunate inclusion of some of the stupid "anti-woke" anti-SJW Gamer™ talking points concerning this game & the industry. _(If it was that kind of channel, however, I doubt they'd be getting supportive comments from Mother's Basement (and I doubt they'd respond to Mother's Basement with a positive ❤)...? Well, fingers crossed!🤞Because I really like this video so far.)_ ~•~•~•~ *EDIT:* Nvm, I'm now an hour in. Monty has already referenced the inclusion of progressive messaging in old Suicide Squad comics to debunk the idea the franchise has recently been made "woke," and he mocked the Gamers™ who attacked the game for including a Pride 🏳️🌈 flag. *Good shit!* 👍 _(I'm relieved! To be clear: While I love hearing political messaging I agree with (lol)_ 😅 _just like anyone else, of course it's not necessary. I'm totally fine with videos excluding all references to political topics, period. I just don't want to be forced to listen to dumb shit like braindead conservative rants about the "woke agenda" - totally misrepresenting what's really wrong with the piece of media and/or what's going wrong with the industry, etc. Most importantly, though: I don't want to unintentionally boost conservative propaganda in the algorithm (especially conservative propaganda that's buried in otherwise apolitical media critique). I need to know if a channel is pushing conservative lies before I subscribe & like their videos, increasing the chances their videos will be recommended to even more people...including uninformed young people, who will click on it totally unprepared to have their political opinions negatively influenced by false conservative talking points mixed in with the legitimate criticisms of a video game they were justified in already disliking.)_
Exactly and here's the thing people complaining when they should have never bought it in the first place. Rocksteady doesn't care. When will people learn??
One other thing I hate. Waller is thirsty for Brainiac's mind control technology treating it like it's a never before seen, ground breaking revolution that they simply need to dig into because Argus (who outta have a catalogue of every villain by the way.) can use it to get whatever they want. Meanwhile Jervis Tetch the Mad Hatter is crying in a corner.
@@dylansharp8471 He's _Had fully functioning_ mind control technology since Arkham Origins. They're trying to treat mind control like a brand new concept when they've used it before.
Hell let's not ignore Hugo Strange's use Jarvis's mind control formula via the audio log in Batman AC (Arkham City) before Batman AA (Arkham Asylum) began (I think)
Another thing I don’t think I’ve seen a SINGLE reviewer touch on: the sound design for this game is AWFUL. You can especially tell in those cutscenes where sound effects have no weight behind them and feel like it was just a .wav file they dropped on top of the footage.
re: Boomerang being racist, the older comics have him use an Australian slur that I think non-Australians might believe is sort of just a neutral abbreviation of "Aboriginal," but basically these Americans had him run around shouting the equivalent of the N word nonstop due to a cultural misunderstanding that even in the 70s would've taken a handful of minutes to clarify.
@@iHaveTheDocuments i doubt you have the mental capacity for unbiased analysis but.... the exploitative, make everyone fight each other so the rich can steal everything while everyones distracted, nature of eurocentric culture is the sole reason ANY societal problems exist on earth today. because eurocentric culture is the global hegemon. that means its forced onto everyone and only the most harmful people are ever given any power or authority. its your culture buddy. not any singular groups or individuals. this is eurocentric culture. divide, conquer, enslave, genocide. its all we've ever done to maintain power
Still better than Countdown making the Trickster homophobic. Seriously, that was a stupid thing to suddenly add to his character, and I'm glad most authors ignored it. Along with everything else from Countdown.
The way you described the comic version of Suicide Squad made me unironically want to get into their history. I wonder whatll be the best place to start
It depends partly what (if any) other comics you read. DC love to reboot their entire universe, and it's generally less confusing to pick one universe and stick to it when you're starting to get into comics, since there can be some pretty major differences between them. If you're more familiar with the older pre-2011 DC comics, then the original run (Suicide Squad vol 1 1987) is a solid starting point. Or if you're familiar with post-2011 comics, then I'd start with New52 reboot of the team (Suicide Squad vol 4 2011). Both of those were very much intended to be accessible to new readers, while the volumes which followed them were building on what came before and assume you're at least somewhat familiar with the team. If you don't read either continuity, you just can pick whichever you prefer - the 1987 run has more depth, but also a fair amount of stuff that hasn't aged well, and the art can be a bit questionable. Comics of that era are also very wordy compared to modern comics, which some people love and some people find hard going, it's really a matter of taste. The 2011 run has absolutely nothing deeper going on, but it's a lot of fun in an over-the-top grimdark way, and the art is solid. That's also the run that first added the modern version of Harley (the one who's moved on from the Joker to be her own stand-alone character) to the team, so if you're here primarily for Harley, that's the one to start with. There's been another reboot since vol 4, beginning with 2019's Suicide Squad Black, but that's a specifically magical spin-off team, and the 2019 reboot stuff all assumed a pretty high level of comics knowledge going in, so probably not the best starting point.
They only put this in the arkham series to boost sales and get more people to buy the game I remember when people were saying that we should trust Rocksteady and they will do right with this game AND look how that turned out
@dylansharp8471 so either batman took his head off or they lied in arkham knight or rocksteadys writing sucks now and they forgot what they did in knight and I don't think it's the first 2
"the game's so incompetent it couldn't even do microtransactions correctly" is genuinely the best punch line the joker season could make, you have to admit
every time i see a new live service game i think "why shouldnt i just go back to destiny?" this is the issue of new live service games and mmos... they gotta compete with games that step on the shoulders of years of content and loyal player base....
As a 500 hour division 2 player I also appreciate it. There is a reason why it’s in a category on my steam library called “shit games I love.” Along side The Calistro Protocol.
I feel like the conflict of having to imprison the heros. Showing how each villain hates/respects their hero rival would've made everything much better in terms of story.
One of the best aspects of The Flash is his relationship with his villains. How there is mutual respect between them and the Flash. We could have gotten that with Boomerang goddamit.
@@Magnet_Chaos flash saved his life and saved harley quinn. We see boomerang contemplate if he died, would flash mourn his death. I have seen flash villains fear the flash because he would not only stop them, but he would also talk with them to become better people. I absolutly love the justice league scene where he talks with the trickster and gets him to take his medice, reveal the villains plan, but also to convince him to go to jail.
@@Magnet_Chaos We saw a bit where Boomerang contemplated if the flash would mourn his death, like batman did with joker. Plus Flash did save the group and Harley twice. SO there should've been a feeling of debt. I wish instead of pulling the flash to the side to threaten him. That captain boomerang pulled him to the side because he didn't want the others to see him give flash a pep talk. "Common mate your the bloody flash how could you loose to the green lantern, if you could beat me than he should be no problem. Now waller wants you alive and I swear I would rather see you dead, Yet someone needs to kick brainiacs ass. So when you better heal up and get back out there and once he's dead your mine." Not perfect but something like that.
@@beck_gaming1243Superman isn’t stupid, he knows when something is obviously a threat and wouldn’t just walk into a trap. Especially not someone flying a giant evil skull, at most Superman would ensure there’s back up plans or precautions before this Superman loves peace but he’s also not afraid to get violent if he needs to. This isn’t how Superman would react
While Rocksteady might say this is canon, the fact that it's so coy about what really has/hasn't happened and this is NOT the Rocksteady from so many years ago (with the key players, save the composer, being long gone), I simply don't consider it such. Like comics, there is a privilege where you can pick and choose the canon.
Going back to the point about how since this is a live service game, there's no stakes for the squad because none of them are actually going to die. It would have actually been a super cool idea for Rocksteady to have 5 playable members of the squad at the start of the game, then have one of the characters get killed off during the story (probably around the early/mid-way point). Maybe even let the players choose which character they want to die, then play through the rest of the game with the four remaining squad members.
Since when has the Master Chief ever been threatened with death? And you know that is true in all of Halo media... So yeah being a live service makes no diffince...
It seems like the only successful "live service" style game... is No Man's Sky. And they have no microtransactions or paid DLC. Every evolution of the game and its world have been free. Long time players like me are practically BEGGING them to LET US PAY THEM for something to support the game and all their hard work at this point.
there are many different successful live-services - its just their success isnt as loud as failures because people rather hear the bad and complain, rather than the good. fortnite, warframe, helldivers 2, ff14 (mmo's ARE, in fact, live-service in general), even genshin despite the fact its oh-so-hated gacha, is a live-service, and a successful one, despite it being very casual. the problem isnt the system and isnt even the mtx - but the relation between the game and mtx. is it a game that serves the mtx, or mtx that serves the game?
There have been several successful live service games. The two routes that seem to lead to the success is either the game be honest about its need to be continually funded and function as a subscription service (FF 14, most MMO's) or have the game feel like a complete package from the get-go and the microtransactions function more as a donation option that allows for more funding but is not needed at all to enjoy the game to its full extent (DRG, Helldivers 2).
@@roble8943 And there's Halo infinte the game that seemly lives on a few season pases, one DLC and primum cuyrrency with getting all the hate in the world and still making billions of USD. Likely becuase of having a fun solid gameplay loop...
What I don't get is WHY they keep trying to force live-service. Literally not even ONE of the big-budget attempts have been successful. The best-selling games of the last few years - Baldur's Gate III, Cyberpunk 2077, Red Dead 2, Alan Wake II, etc. etc., all massive single-player games. Why throw money at something that is definitely more expensive to do, and either flops every time it has been attempted, or is at best a 6.5/10 time waster...?
Live service when done right would be good for example helldivers 2. Unfortunately the big publishers will never have the imagination or the drive to make a good game.
Because games like Fortnite makes billions per month still, and everyone wants a piece of that pie. It doesn't matter how many franchises get ruined, they'll keep throwing shit at the wall until it sticks. These games aren't made for the fans, they're made to reel in the whales, because a handful of clueless ADHD-riddled kids with full unsupervised access to their parent's credit cards are far more valuable to the suits than a million one-time purchases.
@@Vaguer_Weevil Yeah I guess, MMOs have been propped up by whales for years, so figures they're trying to do the same... shame, IPs are wasted like this
I didn't ever play this, I just watched the cutscenes on youtube, but I was struck with how they gave Hal Jordan's personality to John Stewart, probably because they didn't think there was a difference. They also didn't even seem to understand how lantern rings work.
The stupid "clones of the League" plot idea annoys me because it means that there is no real impact in killing these guys in the main story. The Suicide Squad actually KILLED THE JUSTICE LEAGUE... oh, no, wait, Brainiac could just make ten more Supermen to drop on us and scour the earth with heat vision. So what is the point?
Full disclosure: the first draft was called “Murder of the Bat” but it felt like poor taste and I didn’t want it to be viewed as a part of that series of vids!
Honestly here’s how I’d do the game Rewrite: Not a shooter. No online to play mandatory. Replace Deadshot with Jason. Bitter rivalry between him and Harley. But during the years set after Knight, Harley feels sincere remorse for what she’s done, albeit hiding it behind humour. No multiverse stuff. Lex can be a part of the game, needs rescuing. Rather than Wonder Woman, he fights Superman and stabs him with the Kryptonite, only to discover it doesn’t work. Unable to accept that he can’t kill Superman, he still charges his malfunctioning warsuit at Superman. We don’t see him die in an explosion but is implied he’s survived. (Confirmed later in post credit scene) Bruce isn’t a full time member of the League, but still operates as the “Demon Bat”. Comes out of hiding to support the Squad to neutralise the League, not kill them. He acts as a “angel on the shoulder” as opposed to Waller’s “Devil”. To show he can he can be trusted, he offers them a chance to disable the nanobombs in their heads. Wonder Woman and Batman do eventually get brainwashed but can be freed. Waller, however, wants Bruce dead, citing him the most dangerous. Before the fight, Harley pushes Jason out of the way of a attack and is knocked out. Batman is solely against Jason in his boss, Fear Gas is used but not the Bat Demon. It’s Joker with a crowbar. During the Fight, it flashes between Joker and Batman to showcase Jason still hasn’t fully forgiven Bruce for what happened. He does save Bruce but says it’s soley cos Bruce has the answers but there is signs of a reconciliation between the two. This is where Waller tries to activate the nanobombs but finds they don’t work. Throughout the game, you Have the option to spare the League and free them from their brainwashed state using a new variation of Posion Ivy’s mind control spores to counter Braniac’s mind control. Sparing them awards you with new tech and the option to select members of the League to fight Brainiac in the final fight. Final fight against Brainiac isn’t a Flash Reskin. As a reward, the League can be played during free roaming after main story DLC includes Suicide Squad- following the “kill league route”, you play as the League and go against the Penguin, whose seized Lexcorp technology. Justice League- following the “spare League Route”, the League go after a brainwashed Aquaman and Martian Manhunter.
It's intriguing to think about how this game could have turned out if the Crime Syndicate had been the primary antagonists instead. The storyline potential for a twist involving the Syndicate-evil counterparts from a parallel universe-could have added a pretty cool layer to the narrative, in my opinion. Imagine the game titled "Suicide Squad: Kill the 'Justice League'", playing on the ambiguity and setting up a dark, mirrored showdown. It's a concept briefly explored in LEGO DC Supervillains, suggesting there's something there for such stories. I feel like, while not the greatest thing in the world, the bad vs. evil dynamics could have allowed for deeper storytelling beyond the direct confrontation with the Justice League, while still leaving the legacy characters respected.
Apple Legnards I believe. Also, Titanfall 2 multiplayer is still fun. Tried out the DMR for real and man is it good. Wish I was better with the Kraber though.
@@NaimHrustanovic But... y'know... who asked for it? They saw the Fortnite money and swooped in to capitalize on it. Good for them that it's working out, but a Titanfall 3 would've been so, so much better. I feel like the game's a bit more neutered, y'know? No gore, no titans, weaker movement... or so it felt when I last played it. 'Legends' instead of actual pilots, storylines I doubt anyone actually cares about and I doubt actually matter in any way and so on and so forth. What a waste of potential.
@@OrionDawn15technically Apex was supposed to be a stop gap to make enough money to do Titanfall 3. And then it made too much money, literal victims of their own success lol
Lore Dump has been covering games I still intend to play, so I haven’t been listening lately. This is scratching an itch that was desperate to be scratched!
Say what you will about Borderlands, especially as of late, but at least they know how to build characters with skill trees that actually feel unique with identifiable effects. I know when Zane's kill skills are active and can see the clear difference I'm having in combat, and how he plays different than say Moze.
The most striking thing about the Victor Zsasz appearance in the tie-in comic (other than him getting his fucking head bitten off) is that his entire characterisation and speech pattern is off. You straight up cannot read his dialogue in Arkham Zsasz’s voice because it just doesn’t fit. He reads like Arkham City Henchman Number 4 for crying out loud!
Tbf, other Arkham comics have had this problem in the past (eg. the Arkham Knight tie in comics where Batman is more jokey and cheery than you would expect from this version of the character). I would treat them as loose canon at best.
first impressions of the video, Just got to the 7ish minute mark, i really like your comprehensive history of AAA companies using live service in already established IP's, something i have never taken notice of before, but it is very eye opening looking back on it now how much the Live service process has been rinsed and repeated
I mean that is the MO of the cash grab... That is why clone is hated so much in gaming... Becuase they normally are souless copies of the OG idea.. It seems that the Live service cl0one is the current problem one...
THANK YOU for tearing down this iteration of the Wall. I've always loved that character and it's a fucking crime how many adaptations completely fail to understand or translate her. Debra Wilson is one of the best actresses working in the medium of games (which is why she's in fucking everything lately). If anyone could embody Amanda Waller, it's her. She should be _definitive._ But there's just nothing here for her to work with. The writing lets her down at every turn, and it's so frustrating! This game feels like the _dev team_ was working under threat of microbomb detonation.
Why didn't Flash just run back in time before he was captured??? What is he?? Stupid??? An heartfelt thank you for the references to the Arkham reddit jokes, couldn't help but laugh out loud every time
Imagine we don’t hear anything about Batman the entire game. He’s still supposed to be dead until the last mission, the big boss, it will occasionally go dark and the heath bar goes down a bit each time that happens. Bats helps us, we don’t see it, and he still remains a myth.
It is COMPLETELY BAFFLING that the game fails on multiple occasions to create character & story depth & engagement with all the tools they have in the form of premise, settings & characters. The absence of ANY engagement between Joker & Harley alone is probably the most egregious nuke drop of the entire game in my eyes. Any competent writer should be able to at least create one single conversation between the two by accident such that the fact that as mentioned the dev team walks right past the full course meal of story & character development on a silver platter set in front of them feels like a conscious & deliberate choice to make their content thinner, duller & overall worse.
This is why I hate live service games because they keep doing the same crap over and over like a broken record that it ain’t even funny but just sad and depressing in my opinion.
@@baki484 yeah don't remind me about that because frankly I am still pissed off that zaslave is doubling down on this garbage idea, because frankly a lot of people myself included are sick of tired of these live service bullshit games that aren't fun but boring and not interesting in my opinion.
@@goodmanpatryk7155 Why I believe one of the reasons Helldivers 2 does it right is. Because the story instead of being “We’re fighting a villain and we defeat the big bad! Oh no another appeared! Tune in next season when we beat that one and another appears!” When Helldivers takes place in a war, your actions matter, small place in the story but still fun. Like if they made it so rather then “Oh we fighting brainiac 14 times!” Make it so each season we need to defeat a justice league member, it would set a limit to the seasons but it would work.
My god, if there's one thing I will thank this game for is at the very least I can now talk about how shit Tara Strong's Harley is without getting dogpilled for it. She's passible in something like the Arkham games where she's a henchman you're exposed to in short bursts but her delivery is so unnatural, one note and irritating it undercuts any emotional beat she's given. She never sounds like a real person and hearing her in long, uninterrupted periods genuinely begins to feel like a cheese grater to my ears
This video came out on the same day that Tekken 8's Battle Pass went live. It's littered with costume pieces that were in previous games, after customization was critized for giving players less options than 6, Tag 2 and 7. It costs 600 Bandai Namco Funbucks. The game only allows you to buy either 500 or more than 1000 at a time. The patch also came with series regular Eddy Gordo, a character that has been playable in every game in some form, since 1998. If you want to buy Eddy stand-alone instead spending 40 dollars on him and three unannounced characters, you'll have to wait until Friday. This happened two months after the game opened an in-game shop where skins dating back 15 years or more was sold for 400 Bandai Namco Funbucks. This cannot be allowed to continue. Excellent video, as always. I hope that Rocksteady can bounce back, though under current leadership, I guess I need Superman levels of hopium.
It's crazy to see people in the tekken community defending these practices too. The more companies get away with stuff like this, the more pervasive it's going to get. Trying to maximize profits is actively making games worse. Who wants to pay full price to buy a game full of ads for *itself* . Assassins Creed titles, Diablo 3, and Shadow Of Mordor all had their balancing screwed up to sell audiences solutions and time-savers.
WB still has patent on the Nemesis system. Why didn't they use that here, just turn it around? You trying to get your own suicide squad to the top while most of them die on the way? Semi-randomly generated supervillains lead to their sudokus? That would've been awesome.
Back when I was a defender of this game (god help me) I avoided this video because I knew you'd spend three hours criticizing it. Now that I've woken and have realized that this garbage is just that, it is so entertaining hearing you give this game exactly what it deserves: A heap of unapologetic, brutal criticism.
You know his main argument is right? That being Live service game because live service game bad like that is half the video... When his argument should be Bad game bad because bad game bad.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Live service is still a predatory formula, and Should be criticized. Just because you've accepted it doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Also, the game is bad largely BECAUSE it follows that live service formula. His argument is perfectly fine.
The writers thinking this version of Harley has any right to morally grandstand anyone, and that she didnt earn every one of those beatings over the years, is utterly insane
Hey Monty, just want you to know that your Bioshock biopsy was epic, so I binged everything you’ve done, you may be the best. Nothing against Salt, Gingy, Noah Caldwell-Gervais, your favorite son, acritical, avalanche, Bricky, you get the gist. Thousands of hours and nobody does it like you brother.
If their goal was to burn the universe the studio had built back in 2009 as well as the fanbase that stood behind them. I say they succeeded. Their game died faster than Marvel's Avengers. The arkham knight ending was confirmed as literal with Bruce being alive back in 2018 by Sefton Hill in a reddit AmA. The issue is him making stupid showcases for the public (literally sharing his secrets) he should've stayed in the shadows to maintain the legend he regained when he faked his death.
I've watched so many videos about how live service games are total shite and killing the industry that I basically avoid them because I'm sick of hearing the same (completely true and accurate) thing over and over again. But DAMN that was a compelling intro, I was totally invested and can't wait to watch the rest.
Whoever said that doesn't know what they are talking about. Rainbow Six and GTAO are live service and are pretty good. Fortnite still has an audience. Helldivers 2 is making waves, there is an audience and hits
@@miguelzurita3216Wow, a few successful games among a trend where almost every game dies within a year after being ridiculed for shallow gameplay and being riddled with microtransactions. Must mean live service is awesome and everyone loves it!
@@jerrodshack7610hey, the exceptions prove the rule in the end, but doesn't mean those can't be some damn good exceptions (tho I'd only say that about R6 and Helldivers 2. GTAO and Fortnite are just as predatory).
I know game companies and their parent companies are more and more obtuse when it comes to live service games, but 13 seasons?! That's some next level ignorance to be so confident a live service game will last that long.
I'll be honest, the idea of status conditions causing both buffs and debuffs seems like it could make for a really neat battle system, but any application I can think of it working in would be something more turn-based and tactics focused. Slapping that on top of a third-person shooter is a bit bewildering.
This seems like a game that hates both comic book and video game nerds but wants all their money. It seems like WB executives are real effin dumb with trends.
Deadshot in this is such a great example of bad representation. Deadshot’s origin is that he’s old money, the hated son of a millionaire. He killed his brother to save his father’s life and despite that is still despised by him. He’s with the squad not because he has to be but because he wants to die and this is the easiest way he thinks he can do that. Hes also a complete psychopath, desperately clinging on to a final shred of humanity. That origin becomes even more interesting if he’s black! But for some reason when games and movies make Deadshot black they throw that all away and make him a gruff, military like absent father. How’s that not racist? Feel the same way with toy man, even though the Japanese teenager interpretation is a bit more common. Why can’t he be a Japanese, elderly toymaker, a cheesy super villain? Why does he have to be an anime drawing fan boy cliche? You can race swap characters and make those characters more interesting, you can’t just swap their races, attach some stereotypes and abandon everything interesting about them. The Batman 89 comic is a great example of this being done well.
@@ARyan-yk9qh to be blunt, I’m very, very pro black deadshot here and race swapping in general but what’s happening here is reducing what could have been a really interesting character into a handful of racial stereotypes. It is racist to see a character with depth whose origins could be given even more depth with a race swap and say “I’m going to disregard all of that and just make him a gruff, no nonsense absentee father with a vendetta against the only other black man in the game”. We should be demanding better from developers. More representation is good, better representation is better.
If they just did a Rick Flag game where you work out the kinks of a new Task Force X, discover synergies and building team cohesion. And throughout the game you need to figure out the best team member for a job and tag them in, using their actual skills and not just guns. The overarching theme would be using team work and smarts over the raw power of the enemy... I should just play Guardians again.
2:55:00 "You can't complain about the story because it's unfinished" ... This is an argument that can done for litteral years in various media. Serial TV, Recent cinematic universes, COMIC BOOKS. Yes. You can very well still complain about the current bad writing. Fixing it later is just them admiting it was bad.
What I don't like is he seemly blaming every problem on Live Service and content... despite this being very obviously a cash grab... Also not really it just shows you are willing to fix it... Like in all the Arkcukm games after the first they have constantly fixed their writing from the prevous enitry and they weren't live service.
or even game like Granblue Fantasy Relink, you pay AAA price for it but they also add new content update every month for free, no battle pass needed since the new content usually just new raid or new characters.
Thanks for suffering through this, mate. The moment where your accent went from "sounds generally UK to my foreign ears" to "Scottish as all get out" was very pronounced. Also loved the Noobus, Neil, and Chase cameos. I hope this video can help pay back what this game owes you.
Batman Assault on Arkham is honestly one of my top two Suicide Squad movies, DC animated movies even. And it was the first one! Would definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it.
@@Z3r0_L1f3 I also didn't understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity when I was a little kid. You'll figure it out as you age though just like I did.
You made one mistake throughout the video. This was not a game made by Rocksteady, this was a game made by Warner Brothers wearing the skin of Rocksteady
Shit really has to stop with this multiverse stuff, its bad 99% of the time. Its okay if its in the background has a way to have different stories told in alternative universes. But the second they start being AWARE there are alternate universes and it becomes central them all interacting with eachother it seems to more often than not completely drain the emotion and impact outta the setting and stuff
You know that is what always happens in crossovers right? Like all Justice league and Advengers comics? Also Lego canon says your Legos are in their own universe in the many that leego has and they cross over countless times... Like that was the best part of the pre TT games lego games...
And yet Helldivers 2 is a live service co-op and it SLAMS. The issue is greedy companies versus companies who are just out to make things that are fun. Live service games CAN be good...they just rarely are.
What would've been cool is a Marvel Ultimate Alliance type game where you can choose four of 20 villains from DC, and if one dies, they die permanently, if all 20 die, you lose.
One thing you forgot to mention is why we all thought this was Kevin Conroy’s final performance. Because they told us it was!!! A big marketing ploy I saw was parading around this being the end of his Batman. Come see his final outing! The additional work was discovered after the game released. Also hated how they tried to capitalize on just “cop bad.” Deadshot killed people without remorse, but we should side with him because it was wrong to arrest someone with kids. And no one ever asks him, “Do you think the people you killed had kids?” But other than that, you absolutely hit the nail on the head with this review, great content!
"Idunno the footage i see from people playing it looks fun enough, the quips are annoying but whatever; how bad it can it possibly b-" *Three Hours Twentyfive Minutes And Fortytwo Seconds Video Length* "oh"
The game LOOKS like it should be fun. When you see it in short clips the movement and tons of explosions seem like it would be chaotic and exciting. Even now I would almost be willing to try the game if it dropped to like $20. But apparently it’s all a mirage
I don't see that. I see a cluttered mess on the screen (reminds me of "Ready Player One" and its "we can use 80% of the player's screen before they get seizures" line), no tactical aspects... it doesn't look good in terms of either gameplay or presentation.
I feel like part of this games premise was them watching Omni-man kill heroes in Invincible and just say "woah so dark and griddy let's make a whole game based on that but with crazy quirky humor!"
We can only hope the industry finally stops making live service games... After somebody makes a real good MMO that I enjoy first. THEN stop making these.
@@RattlebonesTheThird Trust me on this, anything worth trying, I did. In Warframe's case, I was turned off from it when any attempts to do multiplayer just lead to everyone bullet jump spamming past every possible encounter. I'm cursed with wanting to play something fun, multiplayer, and without having to do a strict rotation/copy an optimal build from somebody else to be viable. :(
FFXIV, Guild Wars 2, Path of Exile. MMOs are actually pretty fine, but they inherently have a certain mindset considering they have mountains of content that's scary for new players as they constantly update.
@@MegaKH2fan Unfortunately, since I'm not big on numerical builds and rotations, but still want more than no challenge, those games didn't hit the mark with their group content for me. As said above, anything worth trying, I did already. :(
@@rept7 from the sound of things I don't think MMO's as a genre are for you. You should try out some rpg and arpg games, they should be right up your alley
By the way, you called it straight up. They announced they are shutting the game down after season 5. I think that's exactly when you said it would end. You didn't have to wait as long as you thought.
Oh man. I just finished your opening segment and boy howdy am I so glad I never invested in any of those live service games. What a waste of time and developer talent.
Worth me tossing out that we covered the story of the Arkham series over on Lore Dump. If you want to hear my terrible Joker impression or my friends solve some riddles, this is the series for you 🦇🦇👇👇
ruclips.net/video/7Oqy9gciEdc/видео.html
PLEASE get some adult juice and cover this game on Lore Dump.
So, there's a throwaway line in the last Lore Dump where you tell Chase something like, "This is the last Batman Arkham story," and I remember hearing that and thinking, "mmm... not quite true, but I imagine we'll hear more on that soon."
Imagine my surprise when that observation becomes relevant the _next day_ . Thanks for your hard work man, it's greatly appreciated on this otherwise dreary day.
@@creecher1118 Chase has been asking me questions so I feel I owe it them now after making them like Batman 😂
I’m gonna do it when the game gets cancelled
@MontyZander So we won't be waiting long. 😂 Looking forward to it!
The Arkham lore dumps were the best yet, closely followed by the Bioshock ones. The recurring “Batman is Bruce Wayne” joke made me smile every time, and it was great seeing Chase get more into the lore with each one.
I love how every chapter is punctuated by poor King Shark wandering in endless, confused circles in a corner.
Fits the game perfectly lol
@@manoeleduardoaraujofilho782 fits modern Rocksteady
Big doofy shork
I really hate Harley trying to take the moral high ground when killing Batman. It’s just… Harley you tortured a teenager and murdered a ton of innocent people.
Like what the hell? Have these writers played the previous Arkham games? Or know even a semblance of Batman lore? Are they stupid?
@@OrionDawn15I have to believe they hate batman and are stupid...
@@OrionDawn15it’s sad because you can tell they have in the audio tapes they literally reference obscure moments but than disregard key moments in game
I mean from an objective standpoint, Harley is an unhinged maniac, but from her perspective, she might see Batman as a bully. I mean remember she was manipulated by the Joker into believing that he was a misunderstood victim and she's watched Batman beat him to a bloody pulp multiple times. She might retain that old sentiment that Batman is somehow the bad guy.
@@owenleal she also was very complicate in the torturing of Jason Todd she didn’t just watch she partakes in the torture
I always thought Suicide Squad would work better as an XCOM or Darkest Dungeon-type game, where you play as Waller and have to strategize which villains to send out, managing their relationships, and dealing with the consequences of perma-death. Like if you make a bad call and Deadshot dies in a mission, he's gone forever. You could even utilize the neck bombs as a tool, like if your squad is getting rebellious and stops obeying your in-game commands, you can detonate one of them. You lose a team member, but now the rest of the team will follow your orders perfectly. Or maybe it has the opposite of the intended effect, and your team panics and you lose complete control. In-between missions you can sentence team members to various "treatments" at Belle Reeve (like electroshock therapy) to get them back in line. Maybe different villains get buffs when they work together, or have negative status effects if you team them up with a rival. You can "recruit" new team members from Belle Reeve, but you have to learn their powers and personality and how best to uitilize them. There's so much potential for a strategy-team-management-type game with this property, I don't think shoehorning it into a live-service looter-shooter makes any use of what makes the Suicide Squad unique.
Already sounds like a better game from the first sentence, alone.
I'd totally play your version.
Now I want to play this non-existent game
This genuinely sounds like a good idea, and a game I'd be down with playing. Midnight Suns wasn't perfect, but the tactical gameplay was excellent and showed that a superhero strategy game can be a ton of fun.
Problem: That makes WAY too much sense. Companies only think like Soulless, Greedy assholes these days
The weird thing about killing the Justice League is that the Crime Syndicate (an evil alt-universe version of them from a universe where the heroes are villains and vice versa) has been in DC Comics for over 50 years now. Heck, they even had a fairly recent crossover where they invade, neutralise all the heroes and have to be taken out by an alliance of villains. A better plot was right there waiting.
Rocksteady don't want a better plot because it wouldn't us the shock value
I don't even mind that they were killing the justice league, I just hate the way they do it , pissing on the flash, stripping green lantern down to his underwear, taking down Batman by reverse fear toxin bs then crapping all over him while he is disabled, and shooting superman.
It all just signals that the current rocksteady devs hate these heroes and hate the previous games that came from them.
Heck, Lego did it better in their game staring DC villains too, shane Rocksteady didn't take any notes.
Unfortunately that's probably way too close to the plot of Injustice: Gods Among Us, the only good game DC have made since the original Arkham series. This game was always going to look bad, but it would look even worse if their combat was being help up against a system created by the mortal combat devs! (And if their incredibly shallow 'heroes mind-controlled to be evil' plot was up against Injustice's surprisingly deep facism metaphor)
It would have made a lot more sense though, especially if they're insisting on a live service format, because you can send the CS back to earth 2/3 (I can't remember which one is the current home universe of the CS, they retconned it) and they can just keep coming back as often as you want!
@@jbktpl1245 I mean that's obvious, their one had Polka dot man
Something that I really hate about current suicide squad is that DC is pushing them to be the anti hero justice league (or knockoff guardians) by putting them up against otherworldly threats. TSS does a great job with them because they were sent to cover up what the government did, starro just happened to escape. Waller even told them to leave instead of fighting him
The Suicide Squad is a black ops team, Assault on Arkham and TSS got that, KTJL and SS16 did not. They aren’t meant to kill gods, they take out a controversial leader or a popular terrorist who opposes American Government Interests.
the moment in the terrible Ayer suicide squad movie where someone asks how these guys are supposed to go up against the justice league and waller responds that it's because boomerang survived an encounter with the flash, a hero who *doesn't kill*, is just the perfect encapsulation of why putting them up against JLA-tier threats is a terrible idea. Flash chose not to murder Boomer, so deadshot can go toe to toe with superman, makes total sense!
They never use anyone with interesting power in Squad stories anymore, loser characters being able to use their niche gimmicks in creative ways to manage against unwinnable odds is such a evergreen concept but the squad is always just a bunch of characters with swords, guns + a big guy, it makes them so much more boring and less endearing compared to when the team is full of characters like Clock king, or Polka dot man or Count vertigo
Yeah it’s what I loved about them. They’re not world defenders, they’re black ops. Any story where they fight the Justice League feels like plot armor to me. Are we just turning every moderate human threat into prep time Batman now?
@@Maraxus
Yes
Watching long reviews of shit games is one of my favourite thing on internet.
Lol same
and movies
Saints Row and Suicide Squad been killing it with this genre of videos. We been eating good for about a year now.
RUclipsrs make more money on bad videgames and films then studious that produce them do. It's a self-balancing act - if you got a bad game - at least you got some fun videos. What's even better is that you only interested in playing good games in the genres you enjoy, but you can watch videos about bad games in every genre.
@@OldyAlbert Seeing videos on bad -games while I farm on a good game, perfect balance.
It’s such a shame to see so many great studios walk this path where the only “live service” is getting to see a beloved studio destroy itself in real time.
Meh it can be done right look at Helldivers 2. WB overestimated Rocksteady’s skillset. This was a small studio that only did single player. They should have hired someone more experienced to make it.
@@inshal6420not to mention that rocksteady has become the “studio of Theseus.” Same name, completely different people from who gave us the Arkham series.
@@Azal423 yeah something weird definitely happened that caused the founders to leave. They randomly left in early 2023 which is really weird since the game was only a year away from release. Also when you look at the game there’s no way this took 9 years. Its gonna be interesting to see what happened behind the scenes when that stuff leaks.
My best guess is this game looked really different until WB was having financial problems and Microsoft almost bought the gaming division. That’s when they switched to liveservice and had to rework the game. There are remnants of a good game. The Batman stuff looks like its taken from a different game. The way he’s haunting you and slowly taking out the Squad is really well done. I bet its a concept left over from an older pitch.
@@inshal6420Might want to pick something with a longer tenure as an example. Helldivers 2 is doing well and will probably continue to do well for a year or two, but the question is always what happens 5 years down the road for these sorts of games.
I think Final Fantasy 14 might be a better example for this due to to it;s longevity and amount of content and expansion packs. Perhaps more importantly, it came out as a flop and slowly improved over time to showcase that Games as a service doesn't *only* need to go downhill.
That said, Don't take this to mean I wish Helldivers 2 ill or anything like that, far from it. I love it's unintentional ability to create humor and just the sheer corniness of it's storytelling. I just think we should look further and longer for an example.
Rainbow Six Siege almost ten years old, technically GTA Online is too both have received updates constantly and have been active for about a decade
Monty's giving this 3 and a half hours. Which i feel is 3 hours more than it deserves.
We honor your sacrifices for us, sir.
Honestly
Umm he gave the money and hours of gameplay too
They could have made the Harley be the one to kill Bruce scene work simply by acknowledging the events of the Arkham games. Aside from saving her life a few time, him killing the Joker is probably what set Harley to change for the better. In a way he set her free. She could still hate him but put more respect before she returns the favor by freeing him from Braniac's control. After killing Batman, Harley said that "he would've wanted it", Batman can't live on knowing the fact he murder countless of innocent people, he needs to die.
But then again this is Arkham Harley, an active participant to Jason Todd's torture and an accomplice in the torture and murder of a sick child, soapboxing on how Batman was a bad for being mean to criminals kinda falls flat any way you spin it
You can even have her say "Good guys like you shouldn't have bad days" before she caps him as a blatant reference to BtAS episode "Harley's Holiday".
Much as I love the Arkham games, the clear disdain the writers have had for Harley as a character from the jump has always been their biggest failing, so getting that studio to make a game where Harley was a MC was never going to work, even without the game bearing the live-service curse.
@@Sapphykins
Come again?
He didn’t joker
@@Sapphykins
Correction, it was never going to work if you tried to treat her like she was an anti-hero at any way.
Unless you try to do what the later God of war games did.
( Honestly, trying to treat her like a anti-hero in any continuity, is a bit weird to me. )
Boomerang placing a bomb on kid-Ivy's head because she's a redhead makes even less sense because ISN'T HE A REDHEAD?!
Sometimes I think.
He's supposed to be
Exactly, he being a redhead himself means he assumes shes as bad as him.
Captain Boomerang’s relationship with Flash especially feels really dumb when you know the Rogues all have immense respect for Flash. Boomerang has always intentionally been a giant asshole but even he has always said that Flash and his battles were “legendary.” There’s a deep respect between the two even if they have immense dislike for each other. But here the respect is gone, just like how the rest of the Squad also have no respect for their respective heroes.
You can even see them accidentally add that respect at points, like with the "post him the bullet" joke
@@axis1247or how he’s literally wearing flash underwear
King Shark is like the only member of the Squad who shows any form of respect to the heroes.
It’s funny how some people’s arguments against the game are as inconsistent as the game itself lol. I thought they literally paid respects to Batman and Wonder Woman when they died. Green Lantern and Flash mocked them so they didn’t really have a reason to say anything, but whatever
@@infinityrocks7360 Wonder Woman is the only one that gets even a modicum of respect from the Squad. But fine let’s discuss their relationships with their heroes, starting things off, these versions of the characters have met and interacted with their heroes for a long time, they have a history with each hero with the exception of Deadshot and Green Lantern. Harley and Batman’s relationship with each other is talked about plenty in the video in how it really doesn’t make much sense for Harley to not have much remorse or regret for killing Batman so that’s one mischaracterization of their relationship. Superman’s death is literally ignored by the plot essentially so I also won’t grace it with any acknowledgment. Boomerang and Flash’s relationship I already explained why I consider it a misuse of their characters. Deadshot himself is fine and it makes sense why he hates this version of Green Lantern but the video explains very well why this version of John sucks ass so this ends up being a somewhat inaccurate portrayal entirely about how the two would view each other. Finally King Shark has no direct connection to any hero specifically, and yet somehow he’s the only one that actually seems that he feels bad for killing them (sometimes). People like me are annoyed with how these characters are portrayed because, they aren’t anything like how the characters as we known them would actually act like, especially in comparison to their relationships with the heroes. Essay reply finished.
That brief history chapter is just proof that live service is the single worst thing to happen to video games. If this continues, with enough flops and layoffs because of this cancerous genre, we'll have another video game crash.
is that a abd thing? Indie will survive, so will Nintendo as they aren't beholders of the western game market. A crash would smoke out all the nasty greedy harpies keeping gaming hostage.
not really, all the people making the bad decisions would still be filthy rich and would all be given golden parachutes. The people actually doing the artistry and work would lose their jobs and be sent into a free fall with zero job security. Call me crazy but I don't think thousands of people losing their jobs is very epic. @@joseroa5243
Well thats the thing, before Destiny 2 went free to play and they vaulted 3 dlcs (which I am salty about as I was halfway through the warmind dlc when it was vaulted) the destiny franchise was somewhat successful. I do feel the live service model can work its just the devs keep making stupid and at times greedy decisions that ruins the game.
tbh i think it's a matter of context and how it's built helldivers 2 is live service but it's gameplay loop plays on a mix of macro and micro where missions you complete help contribute to a larger goal and for what it is it's a fun game to play at a base level. it's not necessarily an issue with the genre it's an issue with how AAA companies are trying to make the genre in an attempt to maximise how much they can milk out of the playerbase
If you look at the larger context of the layoffs, the state of esports and tech companies in general at the moment, I believe we're already in a very slow crash. It's not restricted to one part of the industry either, but seems to be the entire industry as a whole.
Lots of people are gonna lose their jobs and lots of companies are going to look significantly leaner before this is over.
They couldn’t leave the story with Arkham knights, they had to leave it dead on a park bench.
Eh, they already killed the story with Arkham Knight. But SS is still the worst.
@@lazaroskarmaniolas7410agree to disagree I guess, I didn’t think even think Knights story was that bad, a few missed opportunities for sure, but bad? I wouldn’t say that.
A 6 or 7/10 story sure, but a
@@garymcjerryi frankly think that the joker scene explaining things is why the story of AK failed horribly. It was the Killing Joke, but not told, instead it's literally "you" being in that telling and the Joker bashing it over your head OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again! Until you die, wake from the dead and be put to rest again. It's such a stupid way of handling it, clearly it was not written by the same guys that did the story thus far, and clearly when Rocksteady left the now hollow shell that remains.
AK didn't have the worst story, because it really had other plotpoints it could hang off of, it had the worst telling of the Killing Joke since the Justice League movie.
Hard disagree,@@lazaroskarmaniolas7410. AK, in my opinion, easily had the best overall story and it's not even close.
@@TheKueiJin then I think we must have incredibly different tastes, which is perfectly fine lol.
To me, the a large amount of the story of Arkham knight is clear allegories and metaphors. I look at it from a literary perspective of the story over the course of the 3 games (not including origins) and personally I’m fine with how they chose to do things.
I know a lot of people personally dislike the inclusion of the joker, but again personally, I actually do quite like this conclusion.
To me, this isn’t the joker. The joker died in city. He wasn’t brought back by the writers. This *isn’t the joker. This is Batman’s psychological manifestation *of the joker. It’s all in Batman’s head and that’s why I think it works.
This isn’t the joker beating it into your head, these are Batmans thoughts. These are Batman’s doubts and words of admonishment to himself through the psychological profile of the joker.
For example and evidence, we constantly see Batman get injected with fear toxin multiple times over the course of AK, he isn’t superhuman. He is effected by this and the resulting consequence I believe would be the joker.
Of course you have the effect of the joker toxin, but then you compound fear toxin and bam, that’s why we get a more unhinged psychotic and mentally struggling Bruce.
He’s literally becoming the embodiment, the reincarnation, of his largest fear.
His biggest fear being to become like the men who killed his parents, to become a killer and a criminal, to become like Joker.
Then you add on top of that, what joker did to Jason, the equivalent of his son. Playing on his other biggest fear, his inability to protect people, especially family.
So now you’ve got Bruce, literally becoming his biggest fear, a psychotic killer, a criminal and, becoming the man who killed his son. Which plays in perfectly to batmans sense of utter guilt over Jason. He psychologically sees himself as the Killer, even if he logically knows it was the Joker.
So of course that’s who he sees, that’s who he hallucinates, but it’s all fog and mirrors.
It’s just Batman struggling with his mental state while on extreme amounts of drugs the entire game lol.
Those moments where Joker “takes over” or you start tripping balls aren’t real, they’re metaphorical. It’s all Bruce baby.
Ah sorry lol, didn’t mean to write a essay, those are just some examples for why I think it does actually work. Especially on a conceptual level.
I did admit previously there were 100% some missed opportunities, and I do still believe that it’s not a flawless piece of execution, (especially regarding Red Hood) but I really would not put it into the realm of being a bad story.
This game looks like a super wacky and gorgeous cartoon interface for data entry in Microsoft excel. Thanks for playing it so we don’t have to
Mother's Basement commented positively on this video? 🤔
Phew, I'll take that as a good sign! 🤞
_(Based on the all the Breadtube videos I've seen you provide your voice for.)_
I just started this 3.5 hour video, and I'm totally new to this channel...No obvious political markers leaning either way so far, so as usual I must prepare myself for a possible surprise conservative rant or the unfortunate inclusion of some of the stupid "anti-woke" anti-SJW Gamer™ talking points concerning this game & the industry.
_(If it was that kind of channel, however, I doubt they'd be getting supportive comments from Mother's Basement (and I doubt they'd respond to Mother's Basement with a positive ❤)...? Well, fingers crossed!🤞Because I really like this video so far.)_
~•~•~•~
*EDIT:* Nvm, I'm now an hour in. Monty has already referenced the inclusion of progressive messaging in old Suicide Squad comics to debunk the idea the franchise has recently been made "woke," and he mocked the Gamers™ who attacked the game for including a Pride 🏳️🌈 flag. *Good shit!* 👍
_(I'm relieved! To be clear: While I love hearing political messaging I agree with (lol)_ 😅 _just like anyone else, of course it's not necessary. I'm totally fine with videos excluding all references to political topics, period. I just don't want to be forced to listen to dumb shit like braindead conservative rants about the "woke agenda" - totally misrepresenting what's really wrong with the piece of media and/or what's going wrong with the industry, etc. Most importantly, though: I don't want to unintentionally boost conservative propaganda in the algorithm (especially conservative propaganda that's buried in otherwise apolitical media critique). I need to know if a channel is pushing conservative lies before I subscribe & like their videos, increasing the chances their videos will be recommended to even more people...including uninformed young people, who will click on it totally unprepared to have their political opinions negatively influenced by false conservative talking points mixed in with the legitimate criticisms of a video game they were justified in already disliking.)_
That is certainly one way to describe it lol
Hey weren’t you the dumbass that suggested watch Jojo out of order and attempted to shill for corpos?
@@sorryifoldcomment8596erm what the flip
I really wasn't expecting you to be in a game critique video. Glad to see you aren't only into anime
Final one; _Did LEGO DC Supervillans do this kind of story better than Kill the Justice League?_
Yes. Plus it had Kevin and Mark in it so it’s a win.
@@Console-LordPlus it had Polka dot man so it's even better
Yep
That game is so good 😭
It's one of my favourite games and its story is impeccable
This video has more content that the game itself.
Anyone with a brain saw the gameplay reveal and knew to stay away from this garbage.
seems like there's plenty without brain
Exactly and here's the thing people complaining when they should have never bought it in the first place. Rocksteady doesn't care. When will people learn??
And they all went to helldivers 2 instead.
Well you are right, but Monty's glorious sacrifices can not be downplayed. He played this pos so we dont have to. o7
It looked repetitive the first time I saw it.
One other thing I hate. Waller is thirsty for Brainiac's mind control technology treating it like it's a never before seen, ground breaking revolution that they simply need to dig into because Argus (who outta have a catalogue of every villain by the way.) can use it to get whatever they want. Meanwhile Jervis Tetch the Mad Hatter is crying in a corner.
What about Mad Hatter?
@@dylansharp8471 He's _Had fully functioning_ mind control technology since Arkham Origins. They're trying to treat mind control like a brand new concept when they've used it before.
Or getting Doctor Pyg, etc
Hell let's not ignore Hugo Strange's use Jarvis's mind control formula via the audio log in Batman AC (Arkham City) before Batman AA (Arkham Asylum) began (I think)
At the 2 hrs mark you can hear his accent geting progressively thicker, as his annoyance grows, a good show of honesty imo
Another thing I don’t think I’ve seen a SINGLE reviewer touch on: the sound design for this game is AWFUL. You can especially tell in those cutscenes where sound effects have no weight behind them and feel like it was just a .wav file they dropped on top of the footage.
re: Boomerang being racist, the older comics have him use an Australian slur that I think non-Australians might believe is sort of just a neutral abbreviation of "Aboriginal," but basically these Americans had him run around shouting the equivalent of the N word nonstop due to a cultural misunderstanding that even in the 70s would've taken a handful of minutes to clarify.
Look into sweet baby Inc, their part in the writing, and you'll have your answers as to how this happened. It's not an accident.
@@iHaveTheDocuments No Patrick, Sweet Baby Inc is not a boogeyman blameable for every problem in a video game they worked on
@@iHaveTheDocuments i doubt you have the mental capacity for unbiased analysis but.... the exploitative, make everyone fight each other so the rich can steal everything while everyones distracted, nature of eurocentric culture is the sole reason ANY societal problems exist on earth today. because eurocentric culture is the global hegemon. that means its forced onto everyone and only the most harmful people are ever given any power or authority. its your culture buddy. not any singular groups or individuals. this is eurocentric culture. divide, conquer, enslave, genocide. its all we've ever done to maintain power
Still better than Countdown making the Trickster homophobic. Seriously, that was a stupid thing to suddenly add to his character, and I'm glad most authors ignored it. Along with everything else from Countdown.
@@iHaveTheDocuments You guys aren't gonna get your Gamergate 2.0, give it a rest homie.
Well my Tuesday just got a whole lot better
Yours too? I had to go into work early and now I have something I can listen to throughout the day.
Fax no printer this is like watching people shit on The Last Jedi just endless entertainment
It definitely got better.
@bj14100 me too. My nights gonna go by faster listening to this
@@the0peratoR when listening to a game being criticized is more entertaining than the game itself.
The way you described the comic version of Suicide Squad made me unironically want to get into their history. I wonder whatll be the best place to start
It depends partly what (if any) other comics you read. DC love to reboot their entire universe, and it's generally less confusing to pick one universe and stick to it when you're starting to get into comics, since there can be some pretty major differences between them.
If you're more familiar with the older pre-2011 DC comics, then the original run (Suicide Squad vol 1 1987) is a solid starting point. Or if you're familiar with post-2011 comics, then I'd start with New52 reboot of the team (Suicide Squad vol 4 2011). Both of those were very much intended to be accessible to new readers, while the volumes which followed them were building on what came before and assume you're at least somewhat familiar with the team.
If you don't read either continuity, you just can pick whichever you prefer - the 1987 run has more depth, but also a fair amount of stuff that hasn't aged well, and the art can be a bit questionable. Comics of that era are also very wordy compared to modern comics, which some people love and some people find hard going, it's really a matter of taste. The 2011 run has absolutely nothing deeper going on, but it's a lot of fun in an over-the-top grimdark way, and the art is solid. That's also the run that first added the modern version of Harley (the one who's moved on from the Joker to be her own stand-alone character) to the team, so if you're here primarily for Harley, that's the one to start with.
There's been another reboot since vol 4, beginning with 2019's Suicide Squad Black, but that's a specifically magical spin-off team, and the 2019 reboot stuff all assumed a pretty high level of comics knowledge going in, so probably not the best starting point.
You'll get a kick at either Tom Taylor run or the original run by Ostrander
Imma be honest, I don't even care for their old versions. Cause because of their over exposer I'm so DONE with the suicide squad.
To me, Assault on Arkham is canon. This trash game, isnt. The Arkham franchise officially ended with Arkham Knight.
Get this man a pin of honor, well said 🙏
Fr, we know why they made this trash connected to arkham, its just for money and piggy ride the fame of the trilogy
They only put this in the arkham series to boost sales and get more people to buy the game I remember when people were saying that we should trust Rocksteady and they will do right with this game AND look how that turned out
This game fits better into the Injustice universe than the Arkham universe.
Scarecrows mask in the batcave has been making me so mad since I first saw it because it makes no sense so thank you for pointing it out
How does it not make sense?
@dylansharp8471 because they made it clear his mask was stitched on to his face...
@dylansharp8471 so either batman took his head off or they lied in arkham knight or rocksteadys writing sucks now and they forgot what they did in knight and I don't think it's the first 2
Remember when we thought Gotham Knights was the low point in dull bat-grinds? Innocent times man.
Dude really think live service games invented grinding... Like has he never played a JRPG before?
"the game's so incompetent it couldn't even do microtransactions correctly" is genuinely the best punch line the joker season could make, you have to admit
As a 3,000 hour destiny 2 player, I appreciated the time you took kicking my favorite dead horse.
every time i see a new live service game i think "why shouldnt i just go back to destiny?"
this is the issue of new live service games and mmos... they gotta compete with games that step on the shoulders of years of content and loyal player base....
As a 500 hour division 2 player I also appreciate it.
There is a reason why it’s in a category on my steam library called “shit games I love.” Along side The Calistro Protocol.
The part where you explained the gameplay loop to your wife had me on the floor
I feel like the conflict of having to imprison the heros. Showing how each villain hates/respects their hero rival would've made everything much better in terms of story.
One of the best aspects of The Flash is his relationship with his villains. How there is mutual respect between them and the Flash. We could have gotten that with Boomerang goddamit.
@@Magnet_Chaos flash saved his life and saved harley quinn. We see boomerang contemplate if he died, would flash mourn his death. I have seen flash villains fear the flash because he would not only stop them, but he would also talk with them to become better people. I absolutly love the justice league scene where he talks with the trickster and gets him to take his medice, reveal the villains plan, but also to convince him to go to jail.
@@Magnet_Chaos We saw a bit where Boomerang contemplated if the flash would mourn his death, like batman did with joker. Plus Flash did save the group and Harley twice. SO there should've been a feeling of debt. I wish instead of pulling the flash to the side to threaten him. That captain boomerang pulled him to the side because he didn't want the others to see him give flash a pep talk.
"Common mate your the bloody flash how could you loose to the green lantern, if you could beat me than he should be no problem. Now waller wants you alive and I swear I would rather see you dead, Yet someone needs to kick brainiacs ass. So when you better heal up and get back out there and once he's dead your mine."
Not perfect but something like that.
See that would have required competent writers/writing consultants, but unfortunately this game lacked that.
Remember when superman saw the skull ship and was like “I WANNA SHAKE HIS HAND I WANNA SHAKE HIS HAND”
Still flabbergasted by that.
What do you mean that is the most superman thing to do
@@beck_gaming1243if hea written to be an idiot then yes
@@Hugme778 Have you never read a Superman comic Superman would totally go talk to a Alien before he fights it
@@beck_gaming1243Superman isn’t stupid, he knows when something is obviously a threat and wouldn’t just walk into a trap. Especially not someone flying a giant evil skull, at most Superman would ensure there’s back up plans or precautions before this
Superman loves peace but he’s also not afraid to get violent if he needs to. This isn’t how Superman would react
While Rocksteady might say this is canon, the fact that it's so coy about what really has/hasn't happened and this is NOT the Rocksteady from so many years ago (with the key players, save the composer, being long gone), I simply don't consider it such. Like comics, there is a privilege where you can pick and choose the canon.
UI mean other then lisnce how could it be?
Going back to the point about how since this is a live service game, there's no stakes for the squad because none of them are actually going to die. It would have actually been a super cool idea for Rocksteady to have 5 playable members of the squad at the start of the game, then have one of the characters get killed off during the story (probably around the early/mid-way point). Maybe even let the players choose which character they want to die, then play through the rest of the game with the four remaining squad members.
Since when has the Master Chief ever been threatened with death? And you know that is true in all of Halo media... So yeah being a live service makes no diffince...
Monty's dad being a big DC fan totally explains the passion he's shown the comics in past videos.
It seems like the only successful "live service" style game... is No Man's Sky. And they have no microtransactions or paid DLC. Every evolution of the game and its world have been free. Long time players like me are practically BEGGING them to LET US PAY THEM for something to support the game and all their hard work at this point.
ther is the wow types but that, have a history, or finale fantasy 14.
and helldivers apearently
Deep rock and HD2 as well
there are many different successful live-services - its just their success isnt as loud as failures because people rather hear the bad and complain, rather than the good. fortnite, warframe, helldivers 2, ff14 (mmo's ARE, in fact, live-service in general), even genshin despite the fact its oh-so-hated gacha, is a live-service, and a successful one, despite it being very casual.
the problem isnt the system and isnt even the mtx - but the relation between the game and mtx. is it a game that serves the mtx, or mtx that serves the game?
There have been several successful live service games. The two routes that seem to lead to the success is either the game be honest about its need to be continually funded and function as a subscription service (FF 14, most MMO's) or have the game feel like a complete package from the get-go and the microtransactions function more as a donation option that allows for more funding but is not needed at all to enjoy the game to its full extent (DRG, Helldivers 2).
@@roble8943 And there's Halo infinte the game that seemly lives on a few season pases, one DLC and primum cuyrrency with getting all the hate in the world and still making billions of USD. Likely becuase of having a fun solid gameplay loop...
What I don't get is WHY they keep trying to force live-service. Literally not even ONE of the big-budget attempts have been successful. The best-selling games of the last few years - Baldur's Gate III, Cyberpunk 2077, Red Dead 2, Alan Wake II, etc. etc., all massive single-player games. Why throw money at something that is definitely more expensive to do, and either flops every time it has been attempted, or is at best a 6.5/10 time waster...?
The answer is quite simple, in the immortal words of one Eugene Krabbs: "Hello, I like money!".
Live service when done right would be good for example helldivers 2. Unfortunately the big publishers will never have the imagination or the drive to make a good game.
Because games like Fortnite makes billions per month still, and everyone wants a piece of that pie. It doesn't matter how many franchises get ruined, they'll keep throwing shit at the wall until it sticks.
These games aren't made for the fans, they're made to reel in the whales, because a handful of clueless ADHD-riddled kids with full unsupervised access to their parent's credit cards are far more valuable to the suits than a million one-time purchases.
@@Vaguer_Weevil Yeah I guess, MMOs have been propped up by whales for years, so figures they're trying to do the same... shame, IPs are wasted like this
Because they want their Own Fortnite
Except Fortnite was actually able to keep itself alive
I didn't ever play this, I just watched the cutscenes on youtube, but I was struck with how they gave Hal Jordan's personality to John Stewart, probably because they didn't think there was a difference. They also didn't even seem to understand how lantern rings work.
Or they,just don't care
Really, creative funny dude, disciplined military man, hmm, all the same apearently
It's basically what they did to Deadshot, eh he's literally interchangeable for no reason
The stupid "clones of the League" plot idea annoys me because it means that there is no real impact in killing these guys in the main story.
The Suicide Squad actually KILLED THE JUSTICE LEAGUE... oh, no, wait, Brainiac could just make ten more Supermen to drop on us and scour the earth with heat vision. So what is the point?
So glad your title of this video didn’t follow the “Bat” theme/arc of your previous Arkham critiques. This one didn’t deserve it.
Full disclosure: the first draft was called “Murder of the Bat” but it felt like poor taste and I didn’t want it to be viewed as a part of that series of vids!
Honestly here’s how I’d do the game
Rewrite:
Not a shooter. No online to play mandatory.
Replace Deadshot with Jason. Bitter rivalry between him and Harley. But during the years set after Knight, Harley feels sincere remorse for what she’s done, albeit hiding it behind humour.
No multiverse stuff. Lex can be a part of the game, needs rescuing. Rather than Wonder Woman, he fights Superman and stabs him with the Kryptonite, only to discover it doesn’t work. Unable to accept that he can’t kill Superman, he still charges his malfunctioning warsuit at Superman. We don’t see him die in an explosion but is implied he’s survived. (Confirmed later in post credit scene)
Bruce isn’t a full time member of the League, but still operates as the “Demon Bat”. Comes out of hiding to support the Squad to neutralise the League, not kill them. He acts as a “angel on the shoulder” as opposed to Waller’s “Devil”. To show he can he can be trusted, he offers them a chance to disable the nanobombs in their heads.
Wonder Woman and Batman do eventually get brainwashed but can be freed. Waller, however, wants Bruce dead, citing him the most dangerous. Before the fight, Harley pushes Jason out of the way of a attack and is knocked out. Batman is solely against Jason in his boss, Fear Gas is used but not the Bat Demon. It’s Joker with a crowbar. During the Fight, it flashes between Joker and Batman to showcase Jason still hasn’t fully forgiven Bruce for what happened. He does save Bruce but says it’s soley cos Bruce has the answers but there is signs of a reconciliation between the two.
This is where Waller tries to activate the nanobombs but finds they don’t work.
Throughout the game, you Have the option to spare the League and free them from their brainwashed state using a new variation of Posion Ivy’s mind control spores to counter Braniac’s mind control. Sparing them awards you with new tech and the option to select members of the League to fight Brainiac in the final fight.
Final fight against Brainiac isn’t a Flash Reskin.
As a reward, the League can be played during free roaming after main story
DLC includes
Suicide Squad- following the “kill league route”, you play as the League and go against the Penguin, whose seized Lexcorp technology.
Justice League- following the “spare League Route”, the League go after a brainwashed Aquaman and Martian Manhunter.
10/10
As a Warframe and Helldivers 2 player.... Lol.
Hey industry, it's possible to do it right, y'all are just too effing greedy.
HD2 saved us from this crap, and they get more profit than this clown squad
Its ok Monty, i cant remember the last time we got a good Green Lantern
The Justice League cartoon, imo
john diggle from arrow would have made a good one.
The green lantern cartoon was good too.
Umm… i guess the young justice cartoon???? Or the CGI green lantern show.
uhhhhhhhh
drawing a blank
Remember,the Arkham verse truly ended in 2015.
Nah i have hope for the vr game coming out
It's intriguing to think about how this game could have turned out if the Crime Syndicate had been the primary antagonists instead. The storyline potential for a twist involving the Syndicate-evil counterparts from a parallel universe-could have added a pretty cool layer to the narrative, in my opinion.
Imagine the game titled "Suicide Squad: Kill the 'Justice League'", playing on the ambiguity and setting up a dark, mirrored showdown. It's a concept briefly explored in LEGO DC Supervillains, suggesting there's something there for such stories. I feel like, while not the greatest thing in the world, the bad vs. evil dynamics could have allowed for deeper storytelling beyond the direct confrontation with the Justice League, while still leaving the legacy characters respected.
I was thinking the same. The "evil" Justice League is RIGHT THERE, use them!
You know what had a good campaign…Titan Fall 2. Multiplayer was fun. But we can’t have that…so they did that thing we now have, name escapes me
Apple Legnards I believe.
Also, Titanfall 2 multiplayer is still fun. Tried out the DMR for real and man is it good. Wish I was better with the Kraber though.
Apex Legends is easily the best of its genre, though. Spectacular shooter that sent ripples through all battle royales when it came out.
Yeah it's BR but it is fun at least
@@NaimHrustanovic But... y'know... who asked for it? They saw the Fortnite money and swooped in to capitalize on it. Good for them that it's working out, but a Titanfall 3 would've been so, so much better. I feel like the game's a bit more neutered, y'know? No gore, no titans, weaker movement... or so it felt when I last played it. 'Legends' instead of actual pilots, storylines I doubt anyone actually cares about and I doubt actually matter in any way and so on and so forth. What a waste of potential.
@@OrionDawn15technically Apex was supposed to be a stop gap to make enough money to do Titanfall 3. And then it made too much money, literal victims of their own success lol
AW YEAH BABY! Another three hour video to watch in one sitting.
Lore Dump has been covering games I still intend to play, so I haven’t been listening lately. This is scratching an itch that was desperate to be scratched!
Say what you will about Borderlands, especially as of late, but at least they know how to build characters with skill trees that actually feel unique with identifiable effects. I know when Zane's kill skills are active and can see the clear difference I'm having in combat, and how he plays different than say Moze.
Honestly working on this video had me itching to jump into Borderlands for a couple hours but I just haven’t found the time yet!
I mean, I know when I'm playing Moze because I can hear the sounds of all the nuclear explosions I'm throwing around. XD
You should do a critic on the games @@MontyZander
The most striking thing about the Victor Zsasz appearance in the tie-in comic (other than him getting his fucking head bitten off) is that his entire characterisation and speech pattern is off. You straight up cannot read his dialogue in Arkham Zsasz’s voice because it just doesn’t fit. He reads like Arkham City Henchman Number 4 for crying out loud!
Tbf, other Arkham comics have had this problem in the past (eg. the Arkham Knight tie in comics where Batman is more jokey and cheery than you would expect from this version of the character). I would treat them as loose canon at best.
first impressions of the video, Just got to the 7ish minute mark, i really like your comprehensive history of AAA companies using live service in already established IP's, something i have never taken notice of before, but it is very eye opening looking back on it now how much the Live service process has been rinsed and repeated
I mean that is the MO of the cash grab... That is why clone is hated so much in gaming... Becuase they normally are souless copies of the OG idea.. It seems that the Live service cl0one is the current problem one...
THANK YOU for tearing down this iteration of the Wall. I've always loved that character and it's a fucking crime how many adaptations completely fail to understand or translate her. Debra Wilson is one of the best actresses working in the medium of games (which is why she's in fucking everything lately). If anyone could embody Amanda Waller, it's her. She should be _definitive._ But there's just nothing here for her to work with. The writing lets her down at every turn, and it's so frustrating!
This game feels like the _dev team_ was working under threat of microbomb detonation.
Why didn't Flash just run back in time before he was captured??? What is he?? Stupid???
An heartfelt thank you for the references to the Arkham reddit jokes, couldn't help but laugh out loud every time
Imagine we don’t hear anything about Batman the entire game. He’s still supposed to be dead until the last mission, the big boss, it will occasionally go dark and the heath bar goes down a bit each time that happens. Bats helps us, we don’t see it, and he still remains a myth.
It is COMPLETELY BAFFLING that the game fails on multiple occasions to create character & story depth & engagement with all the tools they have in the form of premise, settings & characters. The absence of ANY engagement between Joker & Harley alone is probably the most egregious nuke drop of the entire game in my eyes. Any competent writer should be able to at least create one single conversation between the two by accident such that the fact that as mentioned the dev team walks right past the full course meal of story & character development on a silver platter set in front of them feels like a conscious & deliberate choice to make their content thinner, duller & overall worse.
This is why I hate live service games because they keep doing the same crap over and over like a broken record that it ain’t even funny but just sad and depressing in my opinion.
Get ready for more with Zaslav doubling down on this live service garbage.
@@baki484 yeah don't remind me about that because frankly I am still pissed off that zaslave is doubling down on this garbage idea, because frankly a lot of people myself included are sick of tired of these live service bullshit games that aren't fun but boring and not interesting in my opinion.
Helldivers 2 is doing things right. I never had so much fun with friends like in this live service game
@@goodmanpatryk7155 true that game is doing good.
@@goodmanpatryk7155
Why I believe one of the reasons Helldivers 2 does it right is.
Because the story instead of being “We’re fighting a villain and we defeat the big bad! Oh no another appeared! Tune in next season when we beat that one and another appears!”
When Helldivers takes place in a war, your actions matter, small place in the story but still fun.
Like if they made it so rather then “Oh we fighting brainiac 14 times!” Make it so each season we need to defeat a justice league member, it would set a limit to the seasons but it would work.
Have I played this game? No.
Am I sat? Yes.
My god, if there's one thing I will thank this game for is at the very least I can now talk about how shit Tara Strong's Harley is without getting dogpilled for it. She's passible in something like the Arkham games where she's a henchman you're exposed to in short bursts but her delivery is so unnatural, one note and irritating it undercuts any emotional beat she's given. She never sounds like a real person and hearing her in long, uninterrupted periods genuinely begins to feel like a cheese grater to my ears
I would listen to Arleen Sorkin’s Harley read all of Macbeth. I wouldn’t listen to Tara Strong’s Harley describe how to make lemonade.
This video came out on the same day that Tekken 8's Battle Pass went live. It's littered with costume pieces that were in previous games, after customization was critized for giving players less options than 6, Tag 2 and 7. It costs 600 Bandai Namco Funbucks. The game only allows you to buy either 500 or more than 1000 at a time. The patch also came with series regular Eddy Gordo, a character that has been playable in every game in some form, since 1998. If you want to buy Eddy stand-alone instead spending 40 dollars on him and three unannounced characters, you'll have to wait until Friday. This happened two months after the game opened an in-game shop where skins dating back 15 years or more was sold for 400 Bandai Namco Funbucks.
This cannot be allowed to continue.
Excellent video, as always. I hope that Rocksteady can bounce back, though under current leadership, I guess I need Superman levels of hopium.
It's crazy to see people in the tekken community defending these practices too.
The more companies get away with stuff like this, the more pervasive it's going to get.
Trying to maximize profits is actively making games worse. Who wants to pay full price to buy a game full of ads for *itself* .
Assassins Creed titles, Diablo 3, and Shadow Of Mordor all had their balancing screwed up to sell audiences solutions and time-savers.
WB still has patent on the Nemesis system. Why didn't they use that here, just turn it around? You trying to get your own suicide squad to the top while most of them die on the way? Semi-randomly generated supervillains lead to their sudokus? That would've been awesome.
"On a scale of 1 to 10, how fun does that sound?"
"...No."
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Thirteen Brainiacs? Couldn’t they at least give us a single Darkseid or Trigon to break the monotony.
Back when I was a defender of this game (god help me) I avoided this video because I knew you'd spend three hours criticizing it.
Now that I've woken and have realized that this garbage is just that, it is so entertaining hearing you give this game exactly what it deserves: A heap of unapologetic, brutal criticism.
You know his main argument is right? That being Live service game because live service game bad like that is half the video... When his argument should be Bad game bad because bad game bad.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Live service is still a predatory formula, and Should be criticized.
Just because you've accepted it doesn't mean the rest of us have to.
Also, the game is bad largely BECAUSE it follows that live service formula.
His argument is perfectly fine.
"on a scale of 1-10 how fun does this sound?"
".... No."
I will forever use this quote
The writers thinking this version of Harley has any right to morally grandstand anyone, and that she didnt earn every one of those beatings over the years, is utterly insane
SSKTJL - Murder of the Bat (man Arkham franchise)
Or tarnishing of the Bat
Hey Monty, just want you to know that your Bioshock biopsy was epic, so I binged everything you’ve done, you may be the best. Nothing against Salt, Gingy, Noah Caldwell-Gervais, your favorite son, acritical, avalanche, Bricky, you get the gist. Thousands of hours and nobody does it like you brother.
If their goal was to burn the universe the studio had built back in 2009 as well as the fanbase that stood behind them. I say they succeeded. Their game died faster than Marvel's Avengers.
The arkham knight ending was confirmed as literal with Bruce being alive back in 2018 by Sefton Hill in a reddit AmA.
The issue is him making stupid showcases for the public (literally sharing his secrets) he should've stayed in the shadows to maintain the legend he regained when he faked his death.
the game makes me want to not kill the justice league, so simply i didnt play (or even buy) the game so i saved the justice league
This game spits on Kevin Conroy's memory and completely mocks Arkham series.
I've watched so many videos about how live service games are total shite and killing the industry that I basically avoid them because I'm sick of hearing the same (completely true and accurate) thing over and over again. But DAMN that was a compelling intro, I was totally invested and can't wait to watch the rest.
Whoever said that doesn't know what they are talking about. Rainbow Six and GTAO are live service and are pretty good. Fortnite still has an audience. Helldivers 2 is making waves, there is an audience and hits
@@miguelzurita3216Wow, a few successful games among a trend where almost every game dies within a year after being ridiculed for shallow gameplay and being riddled with microtransactions. Must mean live service is awesome and everyone loves it!
@@jerrodshack7610hey, the exceptions prove the rule in the end, but doesn't mean those can't be some damn good exceptions (tho I'd only say that about R6 and Helldivers 2. GTAO and Fortnite are just as predatory).
I know game companies and their parent companies are more and more obtuse when it comes to live service games, but 13 seasons?! That's some next level ignorance to be so confident a live service game will last that long.
Love your videos, and I especially love the little "1... 2... 3...". It's really charming, and as a musician it kinda really helps me focus in
I'll be honest, the idea of status conditions causing both buffs and debuffs seems like it could make for a really neat battle system, but any application I can think of it working in would be something more turn-based and tactics focused. Slapping that on top of a third-person shooter is a bit bewildering.
This seems like a game that hates both comic book and video game nerds but wants all their money. It seems like WB executives are real effin dumb with trends.
How does it hate comic fans?
Deadshot in this is such a great example of bad representation. Deadshot’s origin is that he’s old money, the hated son of a millionaire. He killed his brother to save his father’s life and despite that is still despised by him. He’s with the squad not because he has to be but because he wants to die and this is the easiest way he thinks he can do that. Hes also a complete psychopath, desperately clinging on to a final shred of humanity. That origin becomes even more interesting if he’s black! But for some reason when games and movies make Deadshot black they throw that all away and make him a gruff, military like absent father. How’s that not racist? Feel the same way with toy man, even though the Japanese teenager interpretation is a bit more common. Why can’t he be a Japanese, elderly toymaker, a cheesy super villain? Why does he have to be an anime drawing fan boy cliche? You can race swap characters and make those characters more interesting, you can’t just swap their races, attach some stereotypes and abandon everything interesting about them. The Batman 89 comic is a great example of this being done well.
"How’s that not racist?"
Because that's not how the word works.
@@ARyan-yk9qhI think it’s racist to reduce black characters into absentee fathers and street criminals
@ItsNotUnusual-mp5qd - Thanks. Will do.
@@ARyan-yk9qh to be blunt, I’m very, very pro black deadshot here and race swapping in general but what’s happening here is reducing what could have been a really interesting character into a handful of racial stereotypes. It is racist to see a character with depth whose origins could be given even more depth with a race swap and say “I’m going to disregard all of that and just make him a gruff, no nonsense absentee father with a vendetta against the only other black man in the game”. We should be demanding better from developers. More representation is good, better representation is better.
@@MANBYTHEWIRELESS
Pro race swapping huh? What about other "swaps"?
If they just did a Rick Flag game where you work out the kinks of a new Task Force X, discover synergies and building team cohesion. And throughout the game you need to figure out the best team member for a job and tag them in, using their actual skills and not just guns. The overarching theme would be using team work and smarts over the raw power of the enemy...
I should just play Guardians again.
3:13:15 Holy. Shit. This game LITERALLY robbed you. Unbelievable.
2:55:00
"You can't complain about the story because it's unfinished"
... This is an argument that can done for litteral years in various media.
Serial TV, Recent cinematic universes, COMIC BOOKS.
Yes. You can very well still complain about the current bad writing.
Fixing it later is just them admiting it was bad.
What I don't like is he seemly blaming every problem on Live Service and content... despite this being very obviously a cash grab... Also not really it just shows you are willing to fix it... Like in all the Arkcukm games after the first they have constantly fixed their writing from the prevous enitry and they weren't live service.
The fact that gacha games like Honkai games have better monetization models really shows how predatory this is
or even game like Granblue Fantasy Relink, you pay AAA price for it but they also add new content update every month for free, no battle pass needed since the new content usually just new raid or new characters.
13 Brainiacs and 7 Warriors of Crime must clash to forge the DC-Blade at the DC-Graveyard!!! 31:18
Ok I believe you.
"I understood that reference."
1:54:16 This whole segment where you explain Suicide Squad to your wife was just beautiful 😂
The idea of 13 Brainiacs instead of… you know, any other villains that they could monetize is baffling.
Thanks for suffering through this, mate. The moment where your accent went from "sounds generally UK to my foreign ears" to "Scottish as all get out" was very pronounced. Also loved the Noobus, Neil, and Chase cameos. I hope this video can help pay back what this game owes you.
The way they resolved the ending of Batman: Arkham Knight in a bunch of voice audio logs was massively unsatisfying.
Batman Assault on Arkham is honestly one of my top two Suicide Squad movies, DC animated movies even. And it was the first one! Would definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it.
Being in the top 2 of the SS movies isn't really a high bar to top.
@@Largentina. It's in the best 50% which is interesting for being the first SS movie made.
Yeah sorry but Assault on Arkham is not better than Constantine: City of Demons and JL:Dark
@@Z3r0_L1f3 I also didn't understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity when I was a little kid. You'll figure it out as you age though just like I did.
@@Largentina.
What now?
You made one mistake throughout the video. This was not a game made by Rocksteady, this was a game made by Warner Brothers wearing the skin of Rocksteady
Shit really has to stop with this multiverse stuff, its bad 99% of the time. Its okay if its in the background has a way to have different stories told in alternative universes. But the second they start being AWARE there are alternate universes and it becomes central them all interacting with eachother it seems to more often than not completely drain the emotion and impact outta the setting and stuff
You know that is what always happens in crossovers right? Like all Justice league and Advengers comics? Also Lego canon says your Legos are in their own universe in the many that leego has and they cross over countless times... Like that was the best part of the pre TT games lego games...
And yet Helldivers 2 is a live service co-op and it SLAMS. The issue is greedy companies versus companies who are just out to make things that are fun. Live service games CAN be good...they just rarely are.
What would've been cool is a Marvel Ultimate Alliance type game where you can choose four of 20 villains from DC, and if one dies, they die permanently, if all 20 die, you lose.
One thing you forgot to mention is why we all thought this was Kevin Conroy’s final performance. Because they told us it was!!! A big marketing ploy I saw was parading around this being the end of his Batman. Come see his final outing! The additional work was discovered after the game released.
Also hated how they tried to capitalize on just “cop bad.” Deadshot killed people without remorse, but we should side with him because it was wrong to arrest someone with kids. And no one ever asks him, “Do you think the people you killed had kids?”
But other than that, you absolutely hit the nail on the head with this review, great content!
Deadshot never ever once killed anyone with kids, that was his Earth 2 counterpart who did all of that.
Can someone explain to me how lex studying batmans human dna helps him determine how supermans alien dna was altered?
probably something to do with mitochondria. that's the powerhouse of the cell you know
@@bdeamon1the one peice he was missing.
Wow the comic book Waller sounds a lot more interesting. This game did her dirty
The segment where he brings in his significant other is so brilliant, there’s gotta be one of these in every video.
You should see his "Noobus Humanus" series, those are hilarious and are how I found this channel in the first place. XD
"Idunno the footage i see from people playing it looks fun enough, the quips are annoying but whatever; how bad it can it possibly b-"
*Three Hours Twentyfive Minutes And Fortytwo Seconds Video Length*
"oh"
The game LOOKS like it should be fun. When you see it in short clips the movement and tons of explosions seem like it would be chaotic and exciting. Even now I would almost be willing to try the game if it dropped to like $20. But apparently it’s all a mirage
I don't see that. I see a cluttered mess on the screen (reminds me of "Ready Player One" and its "we can use 80% of the player's screen before they get seizures" line), no tactical aspects... it doesn't look good in terms of either gameplay or presentation.
I feel like part of this games premise was them watching Omni-man kill heroes in Invincible and just say "woah so dark and griddy let's make a whole game based on that but with crazy quirky humor!"
We can only hope the industry finally stops making live service games... After somebody makes a real good MMO that I enjoy first. THEN stop making these.
Have u tried warframe, it's very good for an mmo
@@RattlebonesTheThird Trust me on this, anything worth trying, I did. In Warframe's case, I was turned off from it when any attempts to do multiplayer just lead to everyone bullet jump spamming past every possible encounter.
I'm cursed with wanting to play something fun, multiplayer, and without having to do a strict rotation/copy an optimal build from somebody else to be viable. :(
FFXIV, Guild Wars 2, Path of Exile.
MMOs are actually pretty fine, but they inherently have a certain mindset considering they have mountains of content that's scary for new players as they constantly update.
@@MegaKH2fan Unfortunately, since I'm not big on numerical builds and rotations, but still want more than no challenge, those games didn't hit the mark with their group content for me. As said above, anything worth trying, I did already. :(
@@rept7 from the sound of things I don't think MMO's as a genre are for you. You should try out some rpg and arpg games, they should be right up your alley
By the way, you called it straight up. They announced they are shutting the game down after season 5. I think that's exactly when you said it would end. You didn't have to wait as long as you thought.
I just love the little "no..." from Mrs. Monty at @1:56:20. Sums up the entire game in one single word perfectly.
Oh man. I just finished your opening segment and boy howdy am I so glad I never invested in any of those live service games. What a waste of time and developer talent.