I love how clear these videos are. You talk fast, correctly, you get to the point and I always get everything on the first viewing. Thank you for your videos, glad I found them.
Thanks for the quick to the point explanation on this rather “obscure” subject. It reminds me of Kurt Tank’s design, the TA-152H high altitude fighter back in WW II. It used a Jumo 213E engine (inverted V-12 liquid-cooled engine) using a MW-50 boost up to 33,000 feet altitude, and could climb to over 44,000 feet using the nitrous oxide boost, achieving almost 470 miles an hour at that altitude. Please, keep those videos rolling!!!
Best and favorite mod on my 350z. Was 394whp before at 9.5psi, now I'm over 440 with a 100% Meth Mixture and 5-6 degrees more timing with the same amount of boost and no knock.
+Felix Gonzalez I am running about 21 to 24 degrees timing once the Meth starts spraying. Not sure on the Octavlne rating sir, but I am using a CM7 Nozzle from coolingmist.com which is about the equivalent of a 600cc injector, so I am spraying a good amount. I take alot of regular fuel out of my target afr map to compensate the extra Meth richening the mixture.
Just saw an F-85 Jetfire at the San Diego Automotive museum, which has a bunch of awesome (and massive) postwar cars right now. The display said that the Jetfire's turbo system was very ahead of its time and really error-prone - partially because people didn't keep the "rocket fluid" topped up, which caused detonation problems. They recalled all of them.
Back in the 1980s, I drove a 1964 Pontiac with a 10.5:1 compression ratio 389 V8 engine that was supposed to have 100 octane gas. We installed a water injection unit to allow it to run properly on lower octane unleaded gas. It worked well.
This was on my recommended..I have been using wmi for a while now. It helps both na and boosted. For both of them it "cleans" up the timing curve and allowed for less drastic timing pull when things get hot. Also in the turbo car it's great being able to do back to back runs without heat soaking. I enjoy seeing boost Temps pretty much at ambient at 20psi even after multiple runs. (Car has a decent size intercooler and wmi right after)
Thanks for the informative video! Just one thing you did not really mention - methanol injection system also cools down the temperature of exhaust gases, which is quite important for some folks, such as drifters. Some of them claim that methanol system lowers their exhaust gases by up to 100 degrees Celsius... Anyway, thanks one more time! Keep videos coming!
I have a direct injection engine(N54), and I am looking to get water meth to help keep intake ports clean, as well as the performance benefits. Great video!
I built and installed 3 different water injection systems on my dad's 75' Olds Cutlass back in 1980. They worked but I was constantly refilling them which is one of a dozen reasons why they won't put it on a production vehicle. If they did put them into production they could eliminate EGR and keep the intake system cleaner. And actually the first reason alcohol is added is to prevent the water from freezing in winter - the additional reasons are the indirect benefits of alcohol (octane boost, etc...).
You talked about the water displacing some of the air, which is true, but according to Gale Banks, when the air is fully saturated, meaning that water cannot effectively evaporate anymore, the volume of air the water displaces is only about 4%. And that's if the charge air is fully saturated, which is unlikely with a properly sized injection nozzle. Basically, yes it does happen, but the displacement you mentioned is not really worth calculating for when it comes to tuning. Gale Banks had a really good discussion about this in +TheSmokingTire podcast a while back (Episode 86 I think) that I think is worth a listen. BTW, love the videos. I've learned a lot watching them and look forward to more
I run a Cooling Mist system on my Mazdaspeed 3, boost switch activated to spray 100% methanol starting at 15psi. For my platform, it's great to keep the intake valves clean since we're direct injected and get no fuel wash in the intake otherwise. I already run an ethanol blend in tank too, so the cylinder cooling and higher functional octane of the ethanol is already in place. With the methanol on top of it, my EGTs are likely hundreds of degrees cooler than normal, and I'm able to run a very aggressive tune in terms of timing quite safely. Steam cleaning the combustion chamber when I run a 50/50 WMI mix is also a nice added benefit!
I have a throttle body spacer with 1/8 NPT holes for injectors to be mounted. I'm just running a single CM7 nozzle. Here's the product I use (and love): damondmotorsports.com/products/mazdaspeed-3-6-tb-spacer-with-injection-ports-pre-buy
Zack Richmond Oh, shit, I though about also using a spacer, so I don't have to drill any holes. The thing is there are many that recomend having a certain distance between the injector and the throttle body. I would think this spacer makes the distance to short, but If there's no problems I guess it doesn't matter. I guess there is enough space/distance/time for the water to evaporate inside the intake manifold.
SI0AX Various WMI companies (Snow, Devil's Own, Cooling Mist, etc.) recommend various nozzle locations for best results. Usually, it's within a few inches of the throttle body. With regard to the Mazdaspeed platform, we've experimented with WMI a TON on our cars and know what works very well for us. If I didn't use that spacer, then I would've put a tap a few inches in front of my throttle body. That spacer places the nozzle right behind the throttle body, which also works very well for us. But I run a solenoid too to prevent siphoning since my nozzle is exposed to more vacuum in that location.
Zack Richmond Cool. I would run the solenoid anyway. As there is a danger of the meth leaking and flooding the engine while it's parked. The one problem that has put off many from methanol injection.
I really hope he does a video on a 6-stroke engine design. That might be the future of ICE engines as a 4 stroke is quickly reaching the maximum efficiency you can get out of it.
ichiban ter A lot of heat is wasted in the combustion of fuel in the power stroke of a 4-stroke engine. That’s why your engine gets so hot and why ICE’s are only about 30% efficient. Much of that heat is just transferred to the engine block or expelled out of the exhaust instead of being used for power. A 6-stroke aims to use this wasted heated to generate more power. Water is injected into the cylinder at TDC in step 5. Due to the heat, the water instantly vaporizes and forms into steam, expanding rapidly. This rapid expansion forces the piston down for an extra power stroke, then the steam is expelled. The water absorbed the heat, turned it into power, and helps keep the engine cool. Now we’re talking about an engine with fewer emissions and more fuel efficient than a 4-stroke, since fuel is used once every 3 piston rotations rather than every two in a 4-stroke. Also, a cooling system might not even be needed or be less dependent in a 6-stroke design because the water absorbs so much heat. The only problems are complexity/weight added by the system and that the power strokes might be uneven in forces, meaning an engine with many cylinders (like a V8-V12) might be needed to balance the forces. I think we can overcome these problems and start using the 6-stroke design, but no one has really explored this concept. It’s a shame because steam was used to power boats & trains before ICE’s ever came along. We should still use that technology today.
+Mesder13 you have to have the same amount of water as you do gasoline or whatever fuel you're using, so if you have a 15 gallon gas tank you need a 15 gallon water tank which adds a bit of weight. another six stroke design incorporates using air injection instead of water and it will still add an extra power stroke without the need of the water tank but it's probably not going to be as powerful.
Hi Jason, First up I just wanna thank you for the time you've taken to do all your videos.. They're really informative. I had a "brainwave" - which I think others have had before... Nevertheless I needed an Expert in Physics and Engineering to give me an opinion and I could think of none other than you... So here goes: I recently contemplated the use of water meth in a turbo car. The basic reason of using 50/50 water meth is to reduce knock, increase boost and possibly reduce fuel consumption while giving the car 'race gas'... I understand that it's not all that simple and that tuning is required. However the principle is that it cools down the air by absorbing the heat energy from the surrounding air - hence creating a denser charge. Which also means that if you put in "cooler" 50/50 water meth versus a "warmer" water meth spray you'd get a better result right? So what i'm trying to say is that the water meth would be somewhat dependent on the external temperature and thus the problem if you're living in a hot climate which i'm living in.. (I live in Singapore where it's always 80-100+F) This got me thinking - "What if I could cool down my water meth MORE?" So instead of spraying in 85-90F Water meth, what if i spray 32F (0 degrees celcius). I understand that water meth freezes at a really low point. (correct me if i'm wrong.) What would the effect be on the car? - i.e in terms of Torque, Cooling(i'm guessing that's obvious but I would still like to know), and horsepower. Would there be a TREMENDOUS improvement is my question?? coz i got a rather "fruity idea" of how to do just that... Also.. How low should the temperature go - as in what would be the sweet spot(without any damage to the car)?? I guess that's all I want to know(not an expert like yourself). Could you tell me if you need to know anything else etc. Also if the gains are so minimal that it's pointless (hopefully you could explain why as well if that's the case) Thanks for taking the time to read this e-mail. Hope you could get back to me at your soonest possible convenience. Best Regards, Mark.
most fighter planes of ww2 had war time emergency power (WEP) push the throttle past 100 and you get meth injection or other things depending on the plane country or engine.
I'm running this on a 2.2l diesel motor, 4gph of nozzles. 1gph pre turbo 3gph post intercooler but running on a mix of isopropyl alcohol rather than meth and the systems controled by an arduino reading maf flow and the app sensor (pedal sensor). The setup gives it quite an extra bump in power and much better pickup after changing gears.
The RUclips video at 'PowerTec 10, episode 95' covers a lot of the more obscure aspects on how to optimize water/methanol injection that as far as is known are not covered on any other RUclips presentation on this subject. New knowledge here for sure!
i heard an explanation of this earlier but it was a bit different. besides the cooling factor of the water when its injected it mostly stays liquid and when it's in the combination chambe it serves as a "cumbustion enhancer". so when the fuel air mix fires there is gonna be a lot of excess heat and the water takes that energy to turn into vapor. and because it expands so much when doing that (by factor 1600 i belive) it uses the excess heat gives you more power by giving you more tourge
An additional benefit of the cooling property of water is that it will reduce exhaust gas temperatures significantly, allowing you to run a leaner air to fuel mixture, increasing fuel economy (I think the cooling effect of the water would cancel out the increased power from a lean, high temperature air to fuel mixture but I'm not 100% sure)
Anytime I wonder how so etching works I hope you have the video for it there could be 10,000 different ones but I look for yours because of how clearly you explain it
Most people put the water injection before the intake side blow-off valve to keep full pressure while having denser air. If the blow-off valve is before it, then you could potentially lose usable air.
+Baerchenization People have enough problems already making sure their cars are full of coolant, oil and gasoline. Last thing any major car maker wants to do is add more things to fill up! (ahem, VW, dieselgate, urea)
Interesting video, as always. Have you ever considered to make a video on 'basic electronics'. Like bias voltage, voltage drop, why sensors use a 5v reference circuit.... Would be interesting. Grtz from Belgium.
You can in fact inject water before the Intercooler as I do very successfully. But this is a different method known as pre turbo mechanical water injection. Much less parts to fail, little adjustment needed and turbo sucks in as much as it needs once flow has been adjusted to optimum levels at nozzle.
I always thought that the methanol was added as a cheap anti freeze when used in draw thru turbo setups: to stop the water from crystalising before it hits the turbo, and eroding the compressor. I have run water/meth in one of my cars for over 15 years and found that unless you want to run stoopid boost, it is a pain in the arse. I found you want it to kick in a little early (say 20 psi so you can run maybe 35 psi of boost)to prevent detonation and say the motor will handle 25 psi boost (without water/meth). I found that unless you are using a recirculating high pressure system with appropriate jets controlled by a good electronic boost controller. I found that when the water/meth kicked in it killed the power unless I was at wide open throttle (trying to prove somthing).
Can you do a full information vid of all benefits and what not and how it works and what not for a turbo charged Diesel engine please? Really like these systems and had one on my old NA engine and now it's turboed I'm going to be putting one on that again. Would like a full informed video at some point if you could please. Cheers
Is your mixture injected before going through the supercharged or after ? i have a screw s/c and am wondering about the setup (tldr ; will it rust my s/c)
+Mathieu Prevereau You want it cooling the charge air, which is located after the intercooler if youre running one. If not, then just put it before the charger. It should be made of aircraft grade aluminum which shouldnt rust but I would worry about any seals with the alcohol eating away at those.
+BagelBytes also, I am not running an intercooler, as I don't think it's needed for my purpose. It's a daily driver that I don't rip on a lot. Also not pushing more than 10lbs of boost.
+bbtwano I think I'd rather inject it after the compressor (supercharger) if there's room - since the charge is hotter at that point, it should vaporize more efficiently at that point...and not leave possible liquid inside the supercharger scrolls/screws/vanes/whatever system yours is using. Of course, this assumes there's a way to plumb it in - there's not always much room between the blower and the intake runners on some engines. Just a thought. :-)
It is an evaporator, essentially. Going from the high pressure inlet to the lower pressure outlet. That is exactly why an intercooler works. Why not exploit that by making the air charge easier to cool? Am i missing something?
Hi, first of all many many thanks because you are so clear explaining everything! This video about the cooling effect of liquid Methanol/water is very interesting. There is a balance between two different effects, however: they lower the temperature of the air/fuel so more fuel can be burnt increasing power. But water/methanol vapours contain very little energy so they do not afford power...
I have a question regarding the pressure and volume content , as the mixture is injected into the pipe before injector the are more chances of increase in volume and pressure in that particular area , as we know after the work of turbo charger the air is pushed into the injector where it adjusts the amount of air to be sent . increase of pressure in that area can be dangerous .
Can I use Denatured Alcohol that was denatured by Methyl Ethyl Ketone instead of Methanol? It contains 1% Methyl Ethyl Ketone by weight, but I would also be mixing is with water at a 50/50 ratio. Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone bad for the engine?
Water also expands to about 1600x its amount when turning from liquid to gas, so this helps to add power by causing more downwards force on the piston. It therefore increases the thermal efficiency of the engine because it's converting the heat into physical expansion of a gas (liquid to gas).
Yea pretty much, because when the water is compressed and sprayed lightly into the intake it will evaporate from some of the remaining heat in the intake air, so you are furthering the cooling process of the air so therefore the air will be more compressed and therefore more combustible so therefore create more energy when it is lit.
I know it’s been years but I wanted to ask you as you give concise answers with proof. Are there any disadvantages to inject WM mixture after the throttle body in turbo powered engines? Wouldn’t that be better as it would eliminate the mixture from accumulating when the TB is shut instantly? Thank you
great video, but i have one doubt , as water is in entering into the cylinder, doesn't it create problem for combustion i mean 50;50 is considerable quantity of water in mixture, also can water be removed from mixture by using eliminator which only restrict the flow of water into the cylinder
water gets converted into air in the cylinder so it's compressible. But because it doesn't contains combustibles, the air fuel ratio is now lowered, thus you loses some power. So you add methanol to aid in the combustion, which increases the air fuel ratio ( since methanol is a fuel, ) along side with fuel ( petrol ) and air ( which is well, water )
No sorry but you're wrong. If you can split the oxygen from hydrogen of the water (H2O) then you wouldn't need additionnal fuel because you would have hydrogen splitted from the oxygen.
Great video, I’m a metro pilot and we use water methanol for take offs on hot summer days. I am also using a 50/50 water/meth injection on my DIT WRX. I am concerned with the oil possibility of the oil diluting, is this a valid concern? Thank you
This is one of those performance parts that have only costs for a disadvantage (ex. BMC air filter). It raises the power, runs a more efficient setup on the engine, but I have a question, okay maybe two. Is that only for turbo charged engines, can it work on NA V6s and V8s? The second one, if you actually give me the guarantee, if I do this, I have to put a tune right? What I want to do is an idea hopefully waiting to happen. You see I have a 2007 W211 E63 AMG, but want to sell it because it is not for me (my personality - don't get me wrong I love V8s and massive power and wheel spins - I want a car I can track day, use every single day, hours on end) my plan is, get a 370Z (used, manual) and do those things, you see, the first question comes to play here, if it is not as efficient as putting this methanol-water way, then I'll start saving for a single turbo setup that goes to both intake manifolds, and I need all the help I could get, could you help me please? Sorry for long post, but I'm not a troll, a hater, a disliker, all the opposites, and consider myself a friend, not only a fan, thank you if you'll respond
+TopGearWASBest It's not really recommended for non turbo cars unless you're running a very high compression ratio. If you want the 370Z, a fairly new car, you won't need to rebuild the engine, so a turbo kit will be a much cheaper option. I think a twin turbo will be more fun, but that almost double the price.
will methanol and air mixture give about the same output in the combustion that Gasoline, NOS and air mixture will give or isn't it comparable at all (using the same type of engine) ?
Can you turn off that system if you know you can't refill the tanks/ What would happen if you do not fill the tank? Does the system shut-down by himself? Could this cause any damage to the engine since the octane level drops (knock,etc...)?
+Jean-Daniel Labranche In addition to what others have said methanol is generally used only when needed for example a car may only be able to run 10psi of boost on 93 octane fuel under low load however the methanol kit is programmed to turn on when the car is under heavy/full load to allow for 10+psi of boost in turn making more power only when needed.
For the Fiat 500 Abarth the company cravenspeed makes a throttle body spacer to be used in conjunction with a water meth kit, but the placement of the injector is just AFTER the throttle body. With the proper tune is this a safe setup? Also I'm running 27psi on a Garrett 1446, I'm assuming that would have to be dialed back a little... 😄 Love your videos, very informative 👍🏻
How is it possible that the water cools the air goin into the engine, the water that is sprayed in and vaporized (heated) goes into the engine too. Or is it important that only the air, not the whole gas mixture, is cooled?
what if air sorrounding is saturated with a lot of moisture already? Definitely you could spray water aswell cause as the air is hotter you would move far away from saturated point. But wouldnt it be dangerous?
I'm looking to know how water or water/methanol injection could be used on a 2 stroke Diesel. Especially how one manages to keep water and methanol out of the engine oil while also preventing the engine from rusting.
Please you should do i video on diffrerent types of headers for v8's like 1/78 and 1/34 and 2 and give us the best for performance with stats becouse i serched the whole wepsites and didnt find a complete good answer to choose which type to install in my chrysler srt 6.4 and i think you can explain it , thank you by the way for this vedio am gonna install this on my gtx passat cc very soon and you helped me very much .
The BMW M4 GTS has the water injection system as well. I wonder where can you get methanol to put in the water tank when you start to run low on water, unless you just pour water and the remaining methanol will mix in and keep combustion going afterwards
I have a mere Ford Focus SE and I want to add horsepower, is it possible for me to methane inject it? Or should I just look into a forced induction system?
So this is only possible because the cooling effects of water's heat of vaporization offers more benefit than the vapor pressure of water vapor takes away? How would the effects change if it was 100% methanol? 100% water?
Is there a temp below where it wont vaporize? Or does it always vaporize at some.point leading up to the combustion chamber. I'm asking cause my pressure is 20psi and spraying air temp maxes at 10 above ambient. So on a 70 day it gets to say 80. Does it still vaporize?
I have a question! I've heard running a water methanol injection setup on a turbo diesel engine can result in pretty bad corrosion issues. Is this true?
Im a little confused n hoping some experts that can explain it to me. Yes, the fine mist vapours instantly when it reaches the intake air but as far as i know, the mist turns into steam when evapouration occurs. So, my question is, even the methannol is combustible but with the steam together goes into the engine room then compressed, would it be harmful for the engine?
I know this subject probably has been covered by other people. But im asking this simply because i like the way you explain stuff. Water Methanol injection in a naturally aspirated engine? How does it work, will there be gains? Thank you.
+Makeit Flip It could allow you to use a higher compression ratio assuming the intake air is warm enough to evaporate the air/fuel mixture. These systems are much more common on turbocharged set-ups (because boost increases the likelihood of knock significantly, and compressed air is warm), but I believe it may be possible to do it on an NA. That said, it very likely wouldn't have the same effectiveness, if it was indeed beneficial.
To specifically address your question, Makeit Flip, adding water/meth injection is not something that creates gains or power improvements - at all, at least by itself. It facilitates aggression in the way of boost, timing, or compression ratio. Meaning you can use water/meth to run extremely high compression ratios (~14-15:1) with timing that you never would be able to on pump-gas. It works in NA the same way it does with turbocharging - it cools the air charge by having the water absorb the heat, instead of the fuel. If the fuel absorbs too much heat, it explodes, sometimes before it is supposed to --- That's engine knock. In particular with NA, you are stuck with the parts you build with, meaning you have to very precisely determine your parts list, and then probably always run the engine with water (and have a safety/backup mode for when the water/meth tank runs low/out). With turbocharging, you can adjust the amount of boost after the fact, and either reduce it or increase it after putting everything together. As usual too, if you're going to go out of your way to add high-compression pistons to an engine, you've already started to spend ~1/2 of the money it'd take to properly turbocharge a vehicle, so it's a pretty tough sell.
+Joe Smathers Actually it definitely does create gains and power improvements. Back in the 70's the US army comisioned a study in completely cooling a diesel engine by injecting water into the cylinder and eliminating the whole cooling circuitry. They found that due to the way it was injecting, some of the water was sticking to the cylinder wall and ended up badly polluting the oil, and from memory I don't think it ever really cooled the engine enough to completely remove the coolant either, BUT and a big BUT, one of the side effects was a signicifant increase (~20% from memory) in power. And that was water only, not methanol. Without adding extra fuel as that would undermine the whole cooling without coolant thing they had going. I've got the paper somewhere here, but it should be possible to find online.
Authur Jackson Reread the paper and you'll probably come to the obvious conclusion that for the power produced versus the weight incurred by the system (in fluid and equipment) to run at such levels, it's absolutely not useful. For the levels of ~GPH that water/meth kits that are actually run on vehicles, it is not a significant source of power, the same way plain untampered tap water isn't a significant source of vitamins.
I just lost a whole lot of typing. Short version: ergosphere.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/us-army-water-injection1.pdf A 3/1 water fuel ratio. Very high, with the purpose of cooling. Power was a side effect. up to 20% power and BSFC increase. A fair torque advantage was gained late in power stroke due to steam flash. It couldn't flash earlier in stroke because too much water. By substantially reducing water injected, flash could occur much closer to tdc giving far higher cylinder pressures where it is wanted. People tuning with water only have reported 40 mpg returned in a 13b, which would ordinarily struggle for 20, using a lot less water than the army did. Engineers on merlin reported similar BSFC increases at higher manifold pressures [citation needed]. I agree it's not a signicant source of power compared to increasing boost to 15 psi from 10, which it makes possible, but I wouldn't say it's not a significant source of power in it's own right. ymmv.
hallo first thank you for making alot of things posible to understand and I hope you read this comments I want to ask you to explain to us the electronic turbo all the new car makers are talking about
I love how clear these videos are. You talk fast, correctly, you get to the point and I always get everything on the first viewing. Thank you for your videos, glad I found them.
+readme.txt Maybe I should make it more complicated to get more (repeat) views? Haha
+Engineering Explained You sneaky devil :)
+readme.txt Yeah, but the title in the thumbnail was a bit misleading. Wasn't what I expected when I read meth injection xD
@@EngineeringExplained I think by now you understand you have done everything correctly :P
OMG YOU ACTUALLY DID A VIDEO!!!!! I REMEMBER ASKING YOU THIS QUESTION LOL THANKS !
Thanks for the quick to the point explanation on this rather “obscure” subject. It reminds me of Kurt Tank’s design, the TA-152H high altitude fighter back in WW II. It used a Jumo 213E engine (inverted V-12 liquid-cooled engine) using a MW-50 boost up to 33,000 feet altitude, and could climb to over 44,000 feet using the nitrous oxide boost, achieving almost 470 miles an hour at that altitude. Please, keep those videos rolling!!!
Water injection was relatively common in wartime aircraft engines
Whenever I have questions on how to make more power, I look through your videos first. Been doing it for years!
Best and favorite mod on my 350z. Was 394whp before at 9.5psi, now I'm over 440 with a 100% Meth Mixture and 5-6 degrees more timing with the same amount of boost and no knock.
+Andreallen4 What max timing did you end up with and what was the fuel octane rating?
+Felix Gonzalez I am running about 21 to 24 degrees timing once the Meth starts spraying. Not sure on the Octavlne rating sir, but I am using a CM7 Nozzle from coolingmist.com which is about the equivalent of a 600cc injector, so I am spraying a good amount. I take alot of regular fuel out of my target afr map to compensate the extra Meth richening the mixture.
So I'm guessing from the hp you're running the 3.5l v6 turbo?? (not too sure if they made 350z's in 4cylinders as well)
Its a V6
@@Andreallen4 100% meth may be too much. I am reading a 50/50 mix with distilled water produces the same effect, but with a cooling effect.
He has developed so much since his first episodes, I think its great.
This is so well made and easily explained that I honestly don't know what to say, good work.
Just saw an F-85 Jetfire at the San Diego Automotive museum, which has a bunch of awesome (and massive) postwar cars right now. The display said that the Jetfire's turbo system was very ahead of its time and really error-prone - partially because people didn't keep the "rocket fluid" topped up, which caused detonation problems. They recalled all of them.
Back in the 1980s, I drove a 1964 Pontiac with a 10.5:1 compression ratio 389 V8 engine that was supposed to have 100 octane gas. We installed a water injection unit to allow it to run properly on lower octane unleaded gas. It worked well.
I love these videos:) correct clear speech along with clear to the point explanations make for easy to learn material. I always learn a lot. Thanks!
This was on my recommended..I have been using wmi for a while now. It helps both na and boosted. For both of them it "cleans" up the timing curve and allowed for less drastic timing pull when things get hot. Also in the turbo car it's great being able to do back to back runs without heat soaking. I enjoy seeing boost Temps pretty much at ambient at 20psi even after multiple runs. (Car has a decent size intercooler and wmi right after)
Thanks for the informative video! Just one thing you did not really mention - methanol injection system also cools down the temperature of exhaust gases, which is quite important for some folks, such as drifters. Some of them claim that methanol system lowers their exhaust gases by up to 100 degrees Celsius...
Anyway, thanks one more time! Keep videos coming!
How do drifters benefit from lower exhaust temps?
I have a direct injection engine(N54), and I am looking to get water meth to help keep intake ports clean, as well as the performance benefits. Great video!
I built and installed 3 different water injection systems on my dad's 75' Olds Cutlass back in 1980. They worked but I was constantly refilling them which is one of a dozen reasons why they won't put it on a production vehicle. If they did put them into production they could eliminate EGR and keep the intake system cleaner. And actually the first reason alcohol is added is to prevent the water from freezing in winter - the additional reasons are the indirect benefits of alcohol (octane boost, etc...).
You talked about the water displacing some of the air, which is true, but according to Gale Banks, when the air is fully saturated, meaning that water cannot effectively evaporate anymore, the volume of air the water displaces is only about 4%. And that's if the charge air is fully saturated, which is unlikely with a properly sized injection nozzle.
Basically, yes it does happen, but the displacement you mentioned is not really worth calculating for when it comes to tuning. Gale Banks had a really good discussion about this in +TheSmokingTire podcast a while back (Episode 86 I think) that I think is worth a listen.
BTW, love the videos. I've learned a lot watching them and look forward to more
Thanks!! I was really looking forward you making this video! I'm glad you answered my request!
I run a Cooling Mist system on my Mazdaspeed 3, boost switch activated to spray 100% methanol starting at 15psi. For my platform, it's great to keep the intake valves clean since we're direct injected and get no fuel wash in the intake otherwise. I already run an ethanol blend in tank too, so the cylinder cooling and higher functional octane of the ethanol is already in place. With the methanol on top of it, my EGTs are likely hundreds of degrees cooler than normal, and I'm able to run a very aggressive tune in terms of timing quite safely. Steam cleaning the combustion chamber when I run a 50/50 WMI mix is also a nice added benefit!
+Zack Richmond I'm planning on doing the same. Where did you setup your nozzle?
I have a throttle body spacer with 1/8 NPT holes for injectors to be mounted. I'm just running a single CM7 nozzle. Here's the product I use (and love): damondmotorsports.com/products/mazdaspeed-3-6-tb-spacer-with-injection-ports-pre-buy
Zack Richmond
Oh, shit, I though about also using a spacer, so I don't have to drill any holes.
The thing is there are many that recomend having a certain distance between the injector and the throttle body.
I would think this spacer makes the distance to short, but If there's no problems I guess it doesn't matter.
I guess there is enough space/distance/time for the water to evaporate inside the intake manifold.
SI0AX Various WMI companies (Snow, Devil's Own, Cooling Mist, etc.) recommend various nozzle locations for best results. Usually, it's within a few inches of the throttle body.
With regard to the Mazdaspeed platform, we've experimented with WMI a TON on our cars and know what works very well for us. If I didn't use that spacer, then I would've put a tap a few inches in front of my throttle body. That spacer places the nozzle right behind the throttle body, which also works very well for us. But I run a solenoid too to prevent siphoning since my nozzle is exposed to more vacuum in that location.
Zack Richmond
Cool. I would run the solenoid anyway. As there is a danger of the meth leaking and flooding the engine while it's parked.
The one problem that has put off many from methanol injection.
Thank you for being very clear in explaining how this system works.
I really hope he does a video on a 6-stroke engine design. That might be the future of ICE engines as a 4 stroke is quickly reaching the maximum efficiency you can get out of it.
so what's so good about 6-stroke designs
ichiban ter A lot of heat is wasted in the combustion of fuel in the power stroke of a 4-stroke engine. That’s why your engine gets so hot and why ICE’s are only about 30% efficient. Much of that heat is just transferred to the engine block or expelled out of the exhaust instead of being used for power. A 6-stroke aims to use this wasted heated to generate more power. Water is injected into the cylinder at TDC in step 5. Due to the heat, the water instantly vaporizes and forms into steam, expanding rapidly. This rapid expansion forces the piston down for an extra power stroke, then the steam is expelled. The water absorbed the heat, turned it into power, and helps keep the engine cool. Now we’re talking about an engine with fewer emissions and more fuel efficient than a 4-stroke, since fuel is used once every 3 piston rotations rather than every two in a 4-stroke. Also, a cooling system might not even be needed or be less dependent in a 6-stroke design because the water absorbs so much heat. The only problems are complexity/weight added by the system and that the power strokes might be uneven in forces, meaning an engine with many cylinders (like a V8-V12) might be needed to balance the forces. I think we can overcome these problems and start using the 6-stroke design, but no one has really explored this concept. It’s a shame because steam was used to power boats & trains before ICE’s ever came along. We should still use that technology today.
+Unbearable Pain Now that you explain that, it seems really obvious. Why are we not funding this? haha.
+Mesder13 you have to have the same amount of water as you do gasoline or whatever fuel you're using, so if you have a 15 gallon gas tank you need a 15 gallon water tank which adds a bit of weight. another six stroke design incorporates using air injection instead of water and it will still add an extra power stroke without the need of the water tank but it's probably not going to be as powerful.
Hi Jason,
First up I just wanna thank you for the time you've taken to do all your videos.. They're really informative.
I had a "brainwave" - which I think others have had before... Nevertheless I needed an Expert in Physics and Engineering to give me an opinion and I could think of none other than you...
So here goes:
I recently contemplated the use of water meth in a turbo car.
The basic reason of using 50/50 water meth is to reduce knock, increase boost and possibly reduce fuel consumption while giving the car 'race gas'... I understand that it's not all that simple and that tuning is required. However the principle is that it cools down the air by absorbing the heat energy from the surrounding air - hence creating a denser charge.
Which also means that if you put in "cooler" 50/50 water meth versus a "warmer" water meth spray you'd get a better result right?
So what i'm trying to say is that the water meth would be somewhat dependent on the external temperature and thus the problem if you're living in a hot climate which i'm living in..
(I live in Singapore where it's always 80-100+F)
This got me thinking - "What if I could cool down my water meth MORE?"
So instead of spraying in 85-90F Water meth, what if i spray 32F (0 degrees celcius). I understand that water meth freezes at a really low point. (correct me if i'm wrong.)
What would the effect be on the car? - i.e in terms of Torque, Cooling(i'm guessing that's obvious but I would still like to know), and horsepower. Would there be a TREMENDOUS improvement is my question?? coz i got a rather "fruity idea" of how to do just that...
Also.. How low should the temperature go - as in what would be the sweet spot(without any damage to the car)??
I guess that's all I want to know(not an expert like yourself).
Could you tell me if you need to know anything else etc.
Also if the gains are so minimal that it's pointless (hopefully you could explain why as well if that's the case)
Thanks for taking the time to read this e-mail. Hope you could get back to me at your soonest possible convenience.
Best Regards,
Mark.
Interesting subject. I didn't even know this existed before I watched this video.
Aircraft engines used this in 1930s. Pratt Whitney wasp radial 18cyl.
And the Daimler Benz V12 used in the BF-109
most fighter planes of ww2 had war time emergency power (WEP) push the throttle past 100 and you get meth injection or other things depending on the plane country or engine.
@@Luke-tm5oy Focke Wulf 190 😎
Such a cool engine.
I'm running this on a 2.2l diesel motor, 4gph of nozzles. 1gph pre turbo 3gph post intercooler but running on a mix of isopropyl alcohol rather than meth and the systems controled by an arduino reading maf flow and the app sensor (pedal sensor). The setup gives it quite an extra bump in power and much better pickup after changing gears.
One thing that is also noticed by people, just how much less fuel the engines use when spraying. Truly remarkable milage can be achieved.
The RUclips video at 'PowerTec 10, episode 95' covers a lot of the more obscure aspects on how to optimize water/methanol injection that as far as is known are not covered on any other RUclips presentation on this subject. New knowledge here for sure!
Another great video. More of these tutorials like you used to please.
i heard an explanation of this earlier but it was a bit different. besides the cooling factor of the water when its injected it mostly stays liquid and when it's in the combination chambe it serves as a "cumbustion enhancer". so when the fuel air mix fires there is gonna be a lot of excess heat and the water takes that energy to turn into vapor. and because it expands so much when doing that (by factor 1600 i belive) it uses the excess heat gives you more power by giving you more tourge
An additional benefit of the cooling property of water is that it will reduce exhaust gas temperatures significantly, allowing you to run a leaner air to fuel mixture, increasing fuel economy (I think the cooling effect of the water would cancel out the increased power from a lean, high temperature air to fuel mixture but I'm not 100% sure)
i use this on a super charge 5.3 in my truck with no intercooler, works great!
Just an observation: Point 4 on your whiteboard should read "Cold air is MORE dense," not less. Great vid, though! ;-)
Haha yep!
+Engineering Explained Ok, good. I thought I was taking crazy pills.
Brilliant explanation.
Anytime I wonder how so etching works I hope you have the video for it there could be 10,000 different ones but I look for yours because of how clearly you explain it
bmw m4 gts has water injection out of the box! not meth though but you can always dump that in!
love your vids.
I learn so much from your page. Thank you!
Great videos mate. I learn so much.
In the case of the 1962 Olds with 10.25 CR and Turbo, 106 octane was readily available at the pump during that era.
I love meth injections. Keeps your AITs and EGTs low while steam cleaning your intake, TB and intake valves. Win/win
I love meth injections too... Lol
But what about crystal meth injections lol
I love the name TURBO ROCKET FLUID!!
Most people put the water injection before the intake side blow-off valve to keep full pressure while having denser air. If the blow-off valve is before it, then you could potentially lose usable air.
Reports on this tech in the 90s suggested everybody could have this in their cars by now... apparently not!
+Baerchenization People have enough problems already making sure their cars are full of coolant, oil and gasoline. Last thing any major car maker wants to do is add more things to fill up! (ahem, VW, dieselgate, urea)
can you please do a video explaining panhard bars, watts linkage, mumford linkage, and other examples of solid axle centering devices?
+Chuck Salerno and how they affect the roll center
+Chuck Salerno and also woblink
Interesting video, as always. Have you ever considered to make a video on 'basic electronics'. Like bias voltage, voltage drop, why sensors use a 5v reference circuit.... Would be interesting. Grtz from Belgium.
You can in fact inject water before the Intercooler as I do very successfully. But this is a different method known as pre turbo mechanical water injection. Much less parts to fail, little adjustment needed and turbo sucks in as much as it needs once flow has been adjusted to optimum levels at nozzle.
I always thought that the methanol was added as a cheap anti freeze when used in draw thru turbo setups: to stop the water from crystalising before it hits the turbo, and eroding the compressor.
I have run water/meth in one of my cars for over 15 years and found that unless you want to run stoopid boost, it is a pain in the arse.
I found you want it to kick in a little early (say 20 psi so you can run maybe 35 psi of boost)to prevent detonation and say the motor will handle 25 psi boost (without water/meth).
I found that unless you are using a recirculating high pressure system with appropriate jets controlled by a good electronic boost controller.
I found that when the water/meth kicked in it killed the power unless I was at wide open throttle (trying to prove somthing).
Can you do a full information vid of all benefits and what not and how it works and what not for a turbo charged Diesel engine please? Really like these systems and had one on my old NA engine and now it's turboed I'm going to be putting one on that again. Would like a full informed video at some point if you could please.
Cheers
I have a scat pack NA 392 and snow stage 3 and noticed intake temps LOWER than outside air at times...I also notice more power at full throttle
I know the Germans used this in WW2 on their fighter aircraft and could increase the engine power by nearly 500hp
I use water meth injection on my 02 trd supercharged 4Runner. Great stuff for boosted cars.
Is your mixture injected before going through the supercharged or after ? i have a screw s/c and am wondering about the setup (tldr ; will it rust my s/c)
+Mathieu Prevereau You want it cooling the charge air, which is located after the intercooler if youre running one. If not, then just put it before the charger. It should be made of aircraft grade aluminum which shouldnt rust but I would worry about any seals with the alcohol eating away at those.
+Mathieu Prevereau it is injected into the intake before the supercharger.
+BagelBytes also, I am not running an intercooler, as I don't think it's needed for my purpose. It's a daily driver that I don't rip on a lot. Also not pushing more than 10lbs of boost.
+bbtwano I think I'd rather inject it after the compressor (supercharger) if there's room - since the charge is hotter at that point, it should vaporize more efficiently at that point...and not leave possible liquid inside the supercharger scrolls/screws/vanes/whatever system yours is using. Of course, this assumes there's a way to plumb it in - there's not always much room between the blower and the intake runners on some engines. Just a thought. :-)
Why wouldn't you inject it before the intercooler, seems that it would work far more efficiently?
It is an evaporator, essentially. Going from the high pressure inlet to the lower pressure outlet. That is exactly why an intercooler works. Why not exploit that by making the air charge easier to cool? Am i missing something?
Puddling
Hi, first of all many many thanks because you are so clear explaining everything! This video about the cooling effect of liquid Methanol/water is very interesting. There is a balance between two different effects, however: they lower the temperature of the air/fuel so more fuel can be burnt increasing power. But water/methanol vapours contain very little energy so they do not afford power...
your videos are very informative... finally subscribed :D...
Audi S4 also uses this kit for the turbo.
Holy hell, we can FINALLY see how many replies are on a comment and up vote or down vote from the mobile app. About time!
The SAAB 99 Turbo did this with washer fluid. Probably not a 50/50 mixture but water and alcohol for sure.
I have a question regarding the pressure and volume content , as the mixture is injected into the pipe before injector the are more chances of increase in volume and pressure in that particular area , as we know after the work of turbo charger the air is pushed into the injector where it adjusts the amount of air to be sent . increase of pressure in that area can be dangerous .
Can I use Denatured Alcohol that was denatured by Methyl Ethyl Ketone instead of Methanol? It contains 1% Methyl Ethyl Ketone by weight, but I would also be mixing is with water at a 50/50 ratio. Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone bad for the engine?
Denatured alcohol is harder to find, at least where I am, and a lot more expensive than methyl hydrate (99.9% pure).
this was absolutely perfect
Water also expands to about 1600x its amount when turning from liquid to gas, so this helps to add power by causing more downwards force on the piston. It therefore increases the thermal efficiency of the engine because it's converting the heat into physical expansion of a gas (liquid to gas).
Yea pretty much, because when the water is compressed and sprayed lightly into the intake it will evaporate from some of the remaining heat in the intake air, so you are furthering the cooling process of the air so therefore the air will be more compressed and therefore more combustible so therefore create more energy when it is lit.
j0n0j0n0j
Yeah, that too! :)
I know it’s been years but I wanted to ask you as you give concise answers with proof. Are there any disadvantages to inject WM mixture after the throttle body in turbo powered engines? Wouldn’t that be better as it would eliminate the mixture from accumulating when the TB is shut instantly? Thank you
I will need to re-watch this a few times to get it man. Water, in the cylinder?? No.
I was always told, "water don't compress".
It vaporizes, that's how it absorbs heat
Can you discuss propane injection also?
great video, but i have one doubt , as water is in entering into the cylinder, doesn't it create problem for combustion i mean 50;50 is considerable quantity of water in mixture, also can water be removed from mixture by using eliminator which only restrict the flow of water into the cylinder
water gets converted into air in the cylinder so it's compressible.
But because it doesn't contains combustibles, the air fuel ratio is now lowered, thus you loses some power. So you add methanol to aid in the combustion, which increases the air fuel ratio ( since methanol is a fuel, ) along side with fuel ( petrol ) and air ( which is well, water )
No sorry but you're wrong. If you can split the oxygen from hydrogen of the water (H2O) then you wouldn't need additionnal fuel because you would have hydrogen splitted from the oxygen.
Hi. Love your videos. Would this be beneficial for GDI engines for keeping the intake valves clean ? Would love to hear your take on this!
-Chris
Fenske, you've done it again! (Y)
Great video, I’m a metro pilot and we use water methanol for take offs on hot summer days. I am also using a 50/50 water/meth injection on my DIT WRX. I am concerned with the oil possibility of the oil diluting, is this a valid concern? Thank you
next i want to see mcm do a meth build been waiting soo long
Hey Jason can you do a video on how the vortex generator on roof works ?
This is one of those performance parts that have only costs for a disadvantage (ex. BMC air filter). It raises the power, runs a more efficient setup on the engine, but I have a question, okay maybe two. Is that only for turbo charged engines, can it work on NA V6s and V8s? The second one, if you actually give me the guarantee, if I do this, I have to put a tune right? What I want to do is an idea hopefully waiting to happen. You see I have a 2007 W211 E63 AMG, but want to sell it because it is not for me (my personality - don't get me wrong I love V8s and massive power and wheel spins - I want a car I can track day, use every single day, hours on end) my plan is, get a 370Z (used, manual) and do those things, you see, the first question comes to play here, if it is not as efficient as putting this methanol-water way, then I'll start saving for a single turbo setup that goes to both intake manifolds, and I need all the help I could get, could you help me please? Sorry for long post, but I'm not a troll, a hater, a disliker, all the opposites, and consider myself a friend, not only a fan, thank you if you'll respond
+TopGearWASBest It's not really recommended for non turbo cars unless you're running a very high compression ratio. If you want the 370Z, a fairly new car, you won't need to rebuild the engine, so a turbo kit will be a much cheaper option. I think a twin turbo will be more fun, but that almost double the price.
will methanol and air mixture give about the same output in the combustion that Gasoline, NOS and air mixture will give or isn't it comparable at all (using the same type of engine) ?
Best part about diesel: You can just straight up run as much boost as your internals can handle.
+DJxSKETCH Diesel modders are finding the benefits of water injection too.
another great vid! When are you gonna make that vid about different sized sequential turbos?
+inuysha360 January of last year... ;) ruclips.net/video/DRcmgibm-aA/видео.html
+Engineering Explained Ahhh okay, sorry about that, thanks!
Can you turn off that system if you know you can't refill the tanks/ What would happen if you do not fill the tank? Does the system shut-down by himself? Could this cause any damage to the engine since the octane level drops (knock,etc...)?
+Jean-Daniel Labranche In addition to what others have said methanol is generally used only when needed for example a car may only be able to run 10psi of boost on 93 octane fuel under low load however the methanol kit is programmed to turn on when the car is under heavy/full load to allow for 10+psi of boost in turn making more power only when needed.
For the Fiat 500 Abarth the company cravenspeed makes a throttle body spacer to be used in conjunction with a water meth kit, but the placement of the injector is just AFTER the throttle body. With the proper tune is this a safe setup? Also I'm running 27psi on a Garrett 1446, I'm assuming that would have to be dialed back a little... 😄 Love your videos, very informative 👍🏻
The mixture also adds to mass flow. More mass flow = More power.
How is it possible that the water cools the air goin into the engine, the water that is sprayed in and vaporized (heated) goes into the engine too. Or is it important that only the air, not the whole gas mixture, is cooled?
BMW S55 is getting water/meth injection on the GTS model btw ;)
Can you make a video about how to make a turbo carburator
Is this water methanol injection safe for Commonrail Diesel Turbo Egine ?
yes, not only increasing power, but also cleaning the piston and valve with vapour
what if air sorrounding is saturated with a lot of moisture already? Definitely you could spray water aswell cause as the air is hotter you would move far away from saturated point. But wouldnt it be dangerous?
Keeps the engine from turning into a high speed milling machine/blow torch combination.
I believe the SAAB 99 turbo also had water injection as an option.
+PotentialEn3rgy Yes!
I had an 62 olds F-85 convertible in college. No turbo. Just the worlds smallest V8, 215 cu. in.
Great video
is there a downfall when using this method, like eating too much fuel, major issues on the piston, injectors, overheat of the motor?
I have been trying to find an engineer answer for how WMI benefits a diesel engine, as opposed to a gas engine.
I'm looking to know how water or water/methanol injection could be used on a 2 stroke Diesel. Especially how one manages to keep water and methanol out of the engine oil while also preventing the engine from rusting.
Please you should do i video on diffrerent types of headers for v8's like 1/78 and 1/34 and 2 and give us the best for performance with stats becouse i serched the whole wepsites and didnt find a complete good answer to choose which type to install in my chrysler srt 6.4 and i think you can explain it , thank you by the way for this vedio am gonna install this on my gtx passat cc very soon and you helped me very much .
What about 100% water injection? One of my friends used to run it on his old XF Falcon back in the 90ies.
Jehu McSpooran nobody talks about it,it's beneficial,not as beneficial as water/meth,but hey more economical and eco for sure.
The BMW M4 GTS has the water injection system as well. I wonder where can you get methanol to put in the water tank when you start to run low on water, unless you just pour water and the remaining methanol will mix in and keep combustion going afterwards
You can run a water(-methanol) system with only water.
Yes, then is would be a water injection only but it doesn't matter.
I have a mere Ford Focus SE and I want to add horsepower, is it possible for me to methane inject it? Or should I just look into a forced induction system?
So this is only possible because the cooling effects of water's heat of vaporization offers more benefit than the vapor pressure of water vapor takes away?
How would the effects change if it was 100% methanol? 100% water?
Is there a temp below where it wont vaporize? Or does it always vaporize at some.point leading up to the combustion chamber. I'm asking cause my pressure is 20psi and spraying air temp maxes at 10 above ambient. So on a 70 day it gets to say 80. Does it still vaporize?
I think that the new M4 GTS concept has this. I was wondering what it meant by water injection, now I know
+Jackisaboss1208 I believe that car is running 100% water, no meth. Maybe you knew that though
Mr318live I was unaware. Thanks for the knowledge man!
Will it decrease fuel consumption since you have less oxygen going in and the ECU adjusts accordingly?!!! 😅
Considering the contents covered, why one wouldnt want to use water/ETHanol? since ethanol is easier to obtain and has simmilar characteristics?
I have a question! I've heard running a water methanol injection setup on a turbo diesel engine can result in pretty bad corrosion issues. Is this true?
can you do a video on the aquatune system?
Im a little confused n hoping some experts that can explain it to me. Yes, the fine mist vapours instantly when it reaches the intake air but as far as i know, the mist turns into steam when evapouration occurs. So, my question is, even the methannol is combustible but with the steam together goes into the engine room then compressed, would it be harmful for the engine?
I know this subject probably has been covered by other people.
But im asking this simply because i like the way you explain stuff.
Water Methanol injection in a naturally aspirated engine?
How does it work, will there be gains?
Thank you.
+Makeit Flip It could allow you to use a higher compression ratio assuming the intake air is warm enough to evaporate the air/fuel mixture. These systems are much more common on turbocharged set-ups (because boost increases the likelihood of knock significantly, and compressed air is warm), but I believe it may be possible to do it on an NA. That said, it very likely wouldn't have the same effectiveness, if it was indeed beneficial.
To specifically address your question, Makeit Flip, adding water/meth injection is not something that creates gains or power improvements - at all, at least by itself. It facilitates aggression in the way of boost, timing, or compression ratio. Meaning you can use water/meth to run extremely high compression ratios (~14-15:1) with timing that you never would be able to on pump-gas.
It works in NA the same way it does with turbocharging - it cools the air charge by having the water absorb the heat, instead of the fuel. If the fuel absorbs too much heat, it explodes, sometimes before it is supposed to --- That's engine knock. In particular with NA, you are stuck with the parts you build with, meaning you have to very precisely determine your parts list, and then probably always run the engine with water (and have a safety/backup mode for when the water/meth tank runs low/out).
With turbocharging, you can adjust the amount of boost after the fact, and either reduce it or increase it after putting everything together.
As usual too, if you're going to go out of your way to add high-compression pistons to an engine, you've already started to spend ~1/2 of the money it'd take to properly turbocharge a vehicle, so it's a pretty tough sell.
+Joe Smathers Actually it definitely does create gains and power improvements. Back in the 70's the US army comisioned a study in completely cooling a diesel engine by injecting water into the cylinder and eliminating the whole cooling circuitry. They found that due to the way it was injecting, some of the water was sticking to the cylinder wall and ended up badly polluting the oil, and from memory I don't think it ever really cooled the engine enough to completely remove the coolant either, BUT and a big BUT, one of the side effects was a signicifant increase (~20% from memory) in power. And that was water only, not methanol. Without adding extra fuel as that would undermine the whole cooling without coolant thing they had going. I've got the paper somewhere here, but it should be possible to find online.
Authur Jackson Reread the paper and you'll probably come to the obvious conclusion that for the power produced versus the weight incurred by the system (in fluid and equipment) to run at such levels, it's absolutely not useful.
For the levels of ~GPH that water/meth kits that are actually run on vehicles, it is not a significant source of power, the same way plain untampered tap water isn't a significant source of vitamins.
I just lost a whole lot of typing. Short version:
ergosphere.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/us-army-water-injection1.pdf
A 3/1 water fuel ratio. Very high, with the purpose of cooling. Power was a side effect. up to 20% power and BSFC increase.
A fair torque advantage was gained late in power stroke due to steam flash. It couldn't flash earlier in stroke because too much water. By substantially reducing water injected, flash could occur much closer to tdc giving far higher cylinder pressures where it is wanted.
People tuning with water only have reported 40 mpg returned in a 13b, which would ordinarily struggle for 20, using a lot less water than the army did. Engineers on merlin reported similar BSFC increases at higher manifold pressures [citation needed].
I agree it's not a signicant source of power compared to increasing boost to 15 psi from 10, which it makes possible, but I wouldn't say it's not a significant source of power in it's own right. ymmv.
hallo first thank you for making alot of things posible to understand and I hope you read this comments I want to ask you to explain to us the electronic turbo all the new car makers are talking about
Check out my "2014 F1 Engine" video it is explained within! :)