@@kusolp544honestly a good change. Moji was a situational flank that could feel like hell to play against or like a free pick every respawn. I like losing her invulnerability and the way she has so much focus on shielding now.
Some more context for the Moji rework 1) They claimed it was also done due to low pickrate (which I find hard to believe considering how many awful champions they added who also have boring personalities and redundant concepts) 2) They made ZERO changes to her for over 3 years when every Moji main suggested a hundred ways to change her. 3) Her talents offered no variety. It was just "get healed for playing the game" "get the occasional double kill by accident" and "also get healed for playing the game" 4) They tried to remove bunnyhopping because it "wasn't intentional". They accidentally gave BUNNYhopping to a BUNNY and didn't want to embrace it. 5) They didn't want to make this an echo champion because Omen didn't do well. Gee, I wonder why people didn't get excited for generic edgy guy #12 with an awful kit made for a MOBA.
I was a Moji main and when they made her a healer I was heartbroken. Also Omen was only fun when they allowed the card deck to make him super silly where you could have only one bullet that does a lot of damage.
i like to think they wouldve embraced bhopping back in the old mobility days, before they put cement shoes on everyone and added a dozen braindead hitscan champs to appease theoretical console players
it's quite interesting how reworks really should be something to be celebrated by a character's mains: a second chance at life, a breath of fresh air. and yet it feels like reworks are largely more exciting for the people playing *against* the character than for people playing *as* the character. i'm excited when a character i hate gets a rework, and annoyed when a character i like gets a rework. probably has something to do with how much longer it takes to adjust to playing as a reworked character compared to how long it takes to adjust to playing against them, or how most reworks standardize the character and make them lose their unique appeals.
Riot practically deleted old Aatrox and Mordekaiser. Their approach towards reworks is often extremely disrespectful and hostile towards the players of those characters. After playing Dota 2 I much prefer how Valve reworks their heroes, there are substantial changes that happen often but they rarely strip away parts of the character, instead usually adding to them. If something does need to go, they make sure not to dismantle the character's identity altogether, and keep the changes as small as possible. Clinkz comes to mind as he's basically had his abilities shuffled around, removed and replaced more times than I can count, but despite this most of his removed abilities are either integrated to other parts of his kit or are unlocked through itemization.
Moji (from paladins) used to be a pretty beefy, short-ranged dps, that had pretty cool techs, but was really map-specific. Now, she just pumps out inasane heals, has insane bloat and the amout of numbers makes it actually tiring to play her. They removed the most fun parts of her kit, the interraction between the abilities, that led to many different techs, like bunny hop, ulilting while using abilities, shooting someone before putting the barrier up to mark the enemy and deal 1k dmg from distance (you'd have to play her to understand). She still has her dps playstyle, and i think she has even better damage than she had before (which was already close to the best DPS in the game), but they removed her fun techs, the need to time your shots to get full damage from the marks, the barrier being an actual damage tool... What a disaster of a rework
Acting like Moji was ever viable outside of being abusable on two maps is a bit disingenuous though. She needed a rework this just wasn't the rework she needed
My favorite example of a ??? rework is the Panic Attack from TF2. Prior to the Jungle Inferno update in 2017, the Panic Attack was a weapon where you had to load shots before being able to fire them, alongside an interesting mechanic where it shot faster but with more bullet spread the lower your health was (hence the name Panic Attack). However, since you have to load first before firing, only the Engineer could really make effective use of the Panic Attack, as the other 3 classes with the weapon have it as a secondary, meaning you'd have to swap off your primary and THEN start loading shots, which usually isn't ideal in situations where you'd typically pull out your secondary (such as being out of ammo for your primary while in a fight). That said, Panic Attack on Engineer was insanely fun; going around with shots ready to fire, getting in an enemy's face while intentionally taking damage to get that faster firing speed, and then unloading all four shots at rapid speed. Genuinely one of my favorite weapons to use, even if it was borderline useless on the other three classes. So how did Valve fix the weapon in the Jungle Inferno update? Simple: they completely threw it out and gave it a new, more boring design. I don't even know what it's really meant for now. It fires more pellets per shot that do less damage but also fire in a fixed spread pattern (as opposed to other weapons with random spread patterns), and both the load -> fire mechanic AND the "low health = faster but less accurate shots" stats were removed entirely. It's a completely different weapon now and I hate it. Yes, it's more useful on all 4 of the classes that have access to it, but the old design was a lot more fun for crazy Engineer players and it just being gone now sucks.
Old panic attack was unique and fun, even if it wasn’t exactly something top tier. Weapons that prioritize uniqueness are great to have. Now it’s just a generic, bland sidegrade. No fun.
@@insomniacnerd5592 it actually is pretty fun on pyro with the degreaser, but otherwise it's just stock that's slightly better or slightly worse depending on the situation
i wouldnt say its useless, its a straight upgrade to stock on servers with random bullet spread enabled so its still my go to on engi, and its fun to use with combo pyro
I miss the old panic attack so much, it was the backbone of how i liked playing engi, i actually slowly stopped playing the class altogether after not being able to adjust to other shotguns, that said it became my secondary of choice for pyro, so i still use it weirdly, so yeah ??? is precisely how i feel about this rework, i still use and enjoy playing with the gun, but on a totally different class and a completely different playstyle, it barely feels like the same gun
It's worse than that, league doesn't try to balance it tries to rotate, when league started out the goal with balance changes was to reach some equilibrium where the game would be finished and every character would have a balanced kit. It was always something that was more utopic than a realistic goal but it was the idea behind the changes, but as the game grew change became a goal in itself and they completely gave up on the idea of balancing things it's just about novelty and it makes staying up to date with the game a nightmare because you have no guarantee anything will ever be stable.
Someone finally put it into words better than I ever could wow. It's exactly this. Each change done feels like they've barely, if at all, learned from anything that they've done or that has happened in the past. Like each change is being done by an entirely new team of people with no knowledge of the game's history.
I played Paladins religiously forever, took a little bit of a break a year ago and THIS video is how I learn they MURDERED my poor wonderful girl Moji.....
dota 2 has a lot of interesting reworks too. examples of reworks that center on defining a hero's identity include ogre magi having their intelligence set to 0, scaling off of strength instead. while medusa had her strength set to 0, giving her next to no health, making her completely reliant on the mana shield. many heroes have had their ultimates swapped with normal abilities, the items which give heroes new abilities are changed frequently too. many heroes (like techies) also receive big reworks after the internationals. i hesitate to call the new facet system a collection of hero reworks to choose between but it's kinda true.
i feel like smites reworks are generally a good example of good reworks, as the devs have said that when reworking a character, they still try to maintain what made people play the character in the first place, the odin rework being a great example of this
One rework that was healthier for the game and maintained a lot of the spirit of the character but is still kinda a ??? is Ying from Paladins. Back in Closed Beta, Ying was a damage character, focused on illusions mostly. Imagine current Ying but the healing of the clones are actually dealing damage. Then at some point she was disabled for a while, and when she came back she was a support. A friend of mine who played the game really liked dps ying and wasn't a fan of the newer version. So the Moji class swap, while utterly weird and removed a lot of the interest I had in playing her, isn't entirely unprecedented.
When I was younger, I played Trove (MMO-style game with different classes, biomes, difficulty tiers, and a feature where you build a house and can instantly teleport your house to a plot of land in the randomly-generated wild). My main class was the Revenant. He was really unpopular because he ignored the usual offense stats but scaled with HP instead. I loved him, I became the ~#25 Revenant in the world, showing people he was actually good. He had a great toolkit, too. Then they reworked him. He didn’t scale off HP anymore, which meant all the gear I grinded for was worthless. In essence, they deleted my class from the game, lmao. Reset my progress with no reimbursement. I stopped playing - I was already grind-weary, that just finished me off. But hey, there were more Revenant players after that . . . yay.
just wanted to comment to say it’s rlly clever how you branched out your content. lots of creators fail to expand what games they talk about because the new videos would get less views - but you decided to talk about tons of games alongside ow in the video which was super smart!! it also helps you play the exact same games im interested in
TO BE FAIR to doomfist, the idea of block is actually a pretty clever way to implement the idea of a "parry" in fighting games, he blocks, like in fighting games, and if he blocks properly, he can "parry" with an empowered punch. it being good or bad is debatable, but yknow. i think people dont give enough credit to dooms rework, as the original idea of a "character similar to fighting games" is still there, just...not as prominent in his actual playstyle.
I've thought about Doom's rework for a while, and while everyday I miss uppercut and I understand why doom got reworked; I really think DPS could still work if more thought was given to it. Lowering wall splat damage or removing it fully, while increasing the base damage of the standard punch removing the common BS one shot, having it so uppercut doesn't rise, or even making it so all of his abilities share a charge like Zarya's new bubbles, In a way mirroring meter in Fighting games, where he either has to build up to doing a crazy combo or only having 2 charges stored so after he does "FROM THE TOP ROPES" and fists all the supports, he can't just run away and do it again- theres a punish window, I really think whoever did the rework just looked at him and went "Oh they like punching" instead of everything else that made him so unique as a character
Exactly, Doomfist's original design was based on fighting games and ability combos however the devs constantly want him to stay as punch bot by constantly buffing his empowered punch for some reason.
Dps doom was objectively just a bad toxic design tho. You had a hero who was built around hard diving the backline with absolutely ridiculous mobility who needed a bunch of extra health and shields to be effective and actively punished good positioning with a super cheesy one shot He was already a dive tank in the wrong role
@@teejay1646 Doomfist originally wasn't designed at all with backline assassination in mind, they more or less wanted him to stay in a close range brawler/ tank type roll that mainly got his damage, movement and value from all three of his damage abilities as well as maintaining a high up time with your temporary shields by constantly hitting ability combos. Doomfist mains quickly adapted Doomfist to fit more an assassin type roll instead by using punch on slanted geometry for rollouts because of how squishy Doomfist was, taking full advantage of his full 125 slam damage and landing on another squishy dps target or support, uppercutting for more immediate damage, shooting them with hand cannon to finish off the target then getting out quickly with either rocket punch or your ultimate since your shields didn't really make you tanky enough to safely stay in a fight for a long even with full shields on you. Plus to one shot with punch you always needed someone to be near a wall which sometimes wasn't consistent since Doomfist is a very buggy character. I agree Dps Doomfist was a pretty toxic character overall, not because of his potential to one shot but because of how mechanically demanding he was just to get average value in a team fight but on the other hand it made learning all of his small techs kind of satisfying if you put the time into learning them. Blizzard could've also made some small changes to his previous kit to make him less toxic to both play as and against but they barely touch the guy whenever it comes to balancing him and a majority of the time he gets nerfed to varying degrees. Tank Doom is better is some ways but I still believe small changes to make him more consistent would go a long way to help Doomfist feel way better to play.
@@teejay1646you are correct he already operated as a dive tank in ow1 he just became an official dive tank in ow2 that’s it. That’s why doomfist was a dps yet received less changes for his rework into a whole new role yet orisa was already a tank and still received more changes 😂
They could have easily made torb more effective on attack while keeping his builder identity intact, like letting Torb place down other building types when his scrapbar was full and they upgrade when he overloads
Talking about fighting games, I think it’s best to mention Ed in Street Fighter 6. He went from one of the lamest characters in SF5 to probably the coolest character in 6. Absolute 10/10 rework
Absolutely agreed. At first, I was pissed to see him in the roster because of his wack ass sf5 design, but now he's my 2nd favorite sf6 character (1st is AKI). An absolute glow up.
I just pretend I dont see the DPS reworks during GOATs cuz most of them were poorly thought out, regardless if they were soft reworks or more fundamental reworks. Like why would Mei need to freeze multiple targets when she literally would need to break a 2000 pt barrier with her lower damage or break a shield against a tank that will just jump out the second theres any trouble. Edit: I feel like Doom could be a really cool character that requires a lot of skill at all levels of play, but I feel like he's just apart of the Mauga/Orisa/Hog crew that hasn't shined yet cuz they always buff Orisa before he can be shown to be fundamentally flawed character. Rocket punch is so important to have a low CD cuz its his best form of mobility, but then it has an AoE stun (which is why Cassidy lost his flashbang) and it can be released prematurely for similar amount of stun with the same AoE. Meanwhile, his slam does nothing and his block is easily ignored.
As someone who played a lot of moji before her rework, I’ve never been more upset at a character I enjoyed essentially being removed. her rework changed her core gameplay so much that she isn’t remotely the same character.
to me whenever you rework a character in a way that disrupts/alienates a player base without proper reason to, you immediately fail the rework. reworks like Aurelion sol and moji have alienated the former player base so much simply due to the reason of "the fanbase was too little" Aurelion sol could of been kept with a new character been made with the new kit and noone would be angry. While moji would've been fine to small changes of the kit to make it more friendly to low levels while adding more skill expression to the kit
You shouldn’t be stuck with bad designs just because of the sunk cost. It’s worth alienating the minority in order to make a better character for the game overall.
It isn't complete character rework or overhaul but I just want to mention about Skye in Paladins. Primarly her cards and talent rework. Skye is flanker that relied on stealth to get close to enemy to burst them down, problem is that she didn't really had that much burst in her kit... Unless you take Cloak and Dagger talent, which make her smoke deal burst damage and combined with card that reduces smoke cooldown whenever Skye hits targets with RMB, she actually got a decent burst (Q -> RMB -> Q) that deals around ~1800 damage where's 1300-1400 damage would have an aoe. That made Skye be actually... playable. She was noobstomper just like Moji, but unlike Moji, Skye falls off already at average skill level, not to mention high level play. Then, Devs reworked her Cloak and Dagger and made it so it heals allies within a smoke for 400 every second... Which is initially did nothing really. Then, they changed it, so now Skye smoke applied every card buff that Skye had for Smoke to all allies in it... (also they nerfed heal from 400 to 190 because of it) and then, Holy support Skye was born. One of her cards, was basically healing for 625 health every 2 seconds, which basically means it healed 312 health per second for each ally in smoke screen. Add base 190 and you get 502 healing per second in AOE. Remember that her smoke was also had 100% uptime and she can put two smokes if needed (smokes healing doesnt stack tho) you get a pretty decent healer with % damage to melt any tank on point, since Skye will be at that point, again, mainly due her invisibiltiy as well as the fact that she literally gets to full hp in 3-4 seconds because of a smoke. But thats not all, she also was able provide up to 40% speedboost for any ally in smoke or for 2 seconds after leaving the smoke and PROVIDING AMMO (4 at base iirc) to anyone entering smoke every 4 seconds (it was really huge for characters like Makoa, Dredge and Drogoz). Basically, that created Skye support that hard to kill unless you get Cauterize to the max really early that also provides a lot of utility and percent damage. For the first time, Skye wasn't a complete troll pick but a competent choice... For about two patches, where devs completely killed that abomination with nerfs lmao
*TORB REWORK HATERS RISE UP* More seriously now, even as someone who *did not* play overwatch 1 let alone his old version, I hate how they completely gutted the builder identity in exchange for another attempt at a boring lame generalist that is still fairly clunky to play anyways (and he is one of my mains btw). I can definitely see a bunch of issues in his old design, but that does not mean it was the right choice to completely abandon his original and actually unique concept... Something I think is worth mentioning is the fact that he was actually reworked twice, as he was also heavily changed from beta to release, wich goes to show even from the beginning they clearly had no clue as to how to properly design a builder character (despite the fact they had the TF2 engie right fucking there as a pretty much perfect blueprint lmao). The beta version (wich you can see in his first gameplay trailers and showcases) used scrap to upgrade the turret wich needed 10 hammer hits per lvl. The turret also did not need molten core to hit lvl 3 and would stay permanently upgraded, in exchage for lvl3 not having as much health as it did on release. So as we can see, even by release Torb had clearly been taken in the wrong direction, by totally watering down his unique resource, the turret and thus the point of the hammer as well. Instead of addresing the pain points of the first iteration, like being unable to move the turret, wich obviously made it both way easier to deal with in defense and pretty terrible in attack (a mistake TF2 made AND fixed years ago by that point), or the scrap sistem wich was *INSANELY* feast or famine, as you literally would only get scrap exclusively from dead enemies and nowhere else, they made that 2nd rework wich cemented this poor direction. I really hope one day he gets the proper rework he deserves; Reduce his tankiness and damage (if its even necessary), bring back the scrap sistem *but* in a reworked manner so its not so limited and feast or famine, tie this resource to the rest of his kit (maybe overload could be sort of toggleable ability that consumes scrap while its active but gives no overhealth? Maybe the rivet gun 1st fire could repair the turret at the cost of some scrap per shot? plenty of things that could be done) and return to the beta version of the turret, with the 10 hits per lvl that require scrap and permanent lvl3 and overall increase its damage as needed, *oh and also make it so you can damm MOVE IT...* Anyways sorry for the long rant haha. Great work on the video overall, I can see you put a lotta time on it and I really liked how you used league as a starting point. It shows its both possible to make great reworks that conserve the original uniqueness and identity of the subject while addressing specific pain points and bad design choices, and you can also have awful ones that totally gut a character and/or don't solve anything lmao
Facts, straight facts, I honestly feel like they could have the scrap bar be used to construct different buildings and you would gain scrap via a passive like how old armor packs used to work, I just want something that just isn't place down a weak turret and spam
good video, but its heartbreaking for me that you didnt mentioned the abomination of a rework called Aurelion Sol in the League of Legends part of the video
The issue with old Aatrox is that he's just a different flavor of Tryndamere, even down to a "i dont die" mechanic. Both want only 1v1s, both sustain really well, both have ways to engage and chase, both just autoattack you down. New Aatrox keeps the drain tank fantasy, but swaps him from being a duelist to a juggernaut, giving him a much better fit for his "bringer of war, destroyer of worlds" raid boss fantasy. I think he was a fantastic rework tbh, and his popularity reflects that. Nobody played or cared about him until the last month he was giga-broken, now he's consistently a popular pick at all ranks regardless of his power, and people are begging for more Aatrox/Darkin content. I still wish they found a way to balance his revive outside of just removing it. They really tried but I miss it every day.
people complain about new aatrox barely resembling the old one, but in that case, they should be just as harsh towards other drastic reworks. sion barely being the same character is not a problem because his kit was rather weird and lacked synergy with itself. nunu barely being the same character is not a problem because his kit was very weak outside of his ultimate. when aatrox, a balance nightmare who was either way too weak or way too strong, gets reworked, suddenly then it becomes a problem? even exil called old aatrox "the only champion removed from the game" despite him not being a special case funny how people beg for a champion to be reworked, but when it does happen, people complain. might as well never rework at this point
As a former dps doom main, i have to agree with everything you said about his rework, it just ended up making him dumber, less fun to play, ruining his identity by a fair bit AND from what I've heard he's still annoying to fight so yeah classic blizzard moment😂
These old WW clips brings flashbacks of memories. WW lvl1 jungle start from dragon. Or AP WW and one Q fully healed you. Q ult Q = enemy dead, you full hp.
I would argue, that the Chamber Teleport was a rework as well. The teleport now works totally different from when he came out Also speaking of the Valorant part: the talk about Neon is in there twice, if you can cut it^^
I know Doomfist is healthier now but I want dps doom back. He was so fun. I had over 400 hours on him but once ow2 came out I completely dropped him. He feels so lame now. I 100% understand why they changed him but they killed what made him so fun for me. Also personally I had no trouble playing against him probably because I mained him I knew what he could do. I played a lot of support and other squishes and I could track his cooldowns, know where he is on the map because I knew almost every possible rollout and if you’re smart almost anything can counter him. yeah he could be annoying but I never understood why so many people like refuse to learn how to play around him and cry about it instead. What he is now isn’t the same character I sunk so much time into
your empowered slam idea got me thinking idea 1: what if slam want just affected by the empowerement but also charged like punch? like a spring - you hold it longer, you fly off with greater force, the lowest one being a quick slam on the ground. the empowerement would then either boost the fixed slam damage or add in greater pull towards df idea 2: what if empowerement was generated instead by people hit with your abilities and block was shifted to generating shields past dropping it and had max duration removed? this way the charge would be reliant on hitting aggressive angles with as many of enemies as possible, but with the influx of your sustain shifted towards the defensive ability you suddenly become way more wary of such engagements, creating a sort-of constant back-and-forth of offense and defense
Hey, as someone who has similar tastes (I assume based on this video) to you I really recomend sticking with fighting games until the motion inputs are not really something you think about, around that that time you should feel a lot more comfortable playing in general. I recommend sajam as great content creator that helps through the pains of learning the genre and core-a gaming for cool video essays about fg design.
I feel like doom fist ock have a pretty stright forward fix : makes the duration very short, and the cold down very short. So it rely on you quickly react to incoming damage, like a block in fighting game.
20:14 I've come to learn thats a misconception, Fighting games aren't about motion inputs, Typically you only like a couple of special moves are needed most of the time it's about using the tools you have like basic moves, timing and special awearness to your advantage. this usually the problem with Fighting game toturials they don't actually get you to be used to those tools and just throw you into combos when most of the time your gonna struggle even getting close to using one.
You should make a video about reworks so bad that they had to go back to the previous design, in OW there are several examples like Mei, Cassidy, Moira, etc. In Smite there is also some example, I think Freya went through the same thing.
Reworks are usually quite a good thing, but if you are a player of the old version you will miss them. Doomfist was toxic as hell imo, but felt so unique. Aurelion Sol is someone I dabbled in from time to time, and while I like the new one the old one will never be playable again. This video is a really nice trip down memory lane. Also man, do I hear some limbus company OST here? Thats quite unexpected and already enough for a sub alone lmao.
To add insult to injury, where Zarya's bubble/Dva matrix/Orisa fortify/Sigma's grasp can negate CC to some extent (Eating sleep for example), Doom's block does NOT block any CC even if facing it. So now, Doom goes in, gets CC'd and dies
I like the idea if an empowered slam, it just needs to be chargeable so you can choose whether to empower it or not. Plus a long press vs short press input is a lot more like a fighting game.
4:58 eh close to, His triple healing is my main issue with him, he doesn't need that, his Q's max health healing, base Lifesteal and ult give him more than enough to keep him in the fight if he's fighting but that triple healing basically makes it almost impossible to 1v1 in melee combat, everything else can defiently be countered but that triple healing basically makes it to where Warwick doesn't need to keep much track of his health aslong as he's hitting something, not using his abilities in tandum with it so he can actually surivive. You know that last saying gives me an idea: "Upon reaching 30% warick Gains triple Increased healing from his abilities" instead of just autoing more to get more that he already does he has to weave in and keep track of his mana and cooldowns to make sure he survived the onslaught, encourging him to care. Still aside from that Everything else is pretty great, you forgot to mention how for the W you basically gain lots of vision on champions and if you can keep track of it you can give it to your teamates.
3:08 noonono it is, as theming is just as important as gameplay as you don't play Warwick to play a Fast moving drain tank, you play Warwick to be the Failed Experiment hound dog and trying to be Protector of Zaun. he takes he's overall generic werwolf stick and does something new with it in showing his side of his new story with the chemicals surgecally attached ot him.
40:37 I hate how they well actually more so Renekton, I forgot Pantheon does have mana. renekton should have a reasource management like everyelse, Rage isn't a reasource managment thing because his abilities aren't locked behind it, so you don't have to worry about not spamming it as much. renekton should have mana bar and a reward for not using his empowered abilities as in a choice aside from which one, encourged to fill up fully so it he isn't left with nothing if he doesn't have mana as a Juggeraunt.
11:21 thats an iffy because that was skarner's problem he was just generic Scorpion, now he's Bigger Generic Scorpion with Three tails, what he's missing is how he's new lore(trully one of the worst decision Riot made under Kai'sa character design)he's like honored creature of the people and yet he doesn't really ceremional looking pieces to him to show that, making his colors really toned down. Resulting in not only his base skin failing to really be new, but also most of his skin aside from the exception of Battlecast(that one is more peak that I would've thought, they should've made the dropped Bomb more obvious so it didn't look like they recycled the Rock again) have be made to either Be worse with Forest gurdian, Nothing changing like with high Noon, or somewhat made better like with Sand Guradian.
The reworks done with shields in R6 is just too damn great, overall, they don't feel strong still having those counters (echo, ela, orxy, clash, cav, smoke, tachanka, maestro, any operator with nitro/impact) ,but def not as bad as it was
The reason why Raze was nerfed at the same time as Neon got buffed allthough they have the same function of entrying the side being chaotic with their movement is the use of Raze in pro play. The game like valorant thats really focused on esports has a feature of dictating whats meta and whats not by just having those pro games. People just look at what and how is played in high level and carry it in casual Plat games. Raze was a meta for a very long time because ahe is the only character that can get straight into backsite or highground while entrying using VERTICAL space. Usually in valorant you look upwards only to break util which makes it a hard crosshair placement breaker. So naturally people ignore raze flying out until she lands because it will break your aim and even if you do kill her you will get easily traded, not to mention that you need to break all of the util like Gecko flash, Reyna flash, Sova dart etc. Neon on the other hand, does the same job but on the ground. She is more predictable in her movement to deal with, allthough still chaotic. But at least you wont be forced to look straight up or behind you to counter when she is entrying akin dealing with Raze. Great vid, i can see the improvement in each new video.
Oh god i was SO SAD when aatrox changed, i really didnt have the same power fantasy as the old one, a new one and pretty fun if mastered one, but still, i miss ma boy, oh and morde too.
a good ??? is Revenant Reborn in Apex. completely changed his kit allowing for a hyper aggressive "raid boss" feeling kit. fits his character wayyyy more. downside is it's incredibly overpowered 😭
My core issue with issue with Overwatch is that they failed to balance skill and fun, also: Orisa rework meh Hanzo technically healthy but bad Symmetra ultimate is too weak in a fast paced game like OW but it is broken in the Valorant ver, bad Cassidy bad Doomfist bad (I miss trying to snipe Pharahs) Widow charge up good Mercy except the hitbox in ult change good And the OW rework to OW 2 absolutely rubbish
I think it also depends on how much the game wants to encourage haivng "Mains", dota very often switches character roles, orcompletey changes their core gameplay, but i dont remember anybody really complaining about that
1:44 Shen is an exception, he more a half rework than a real due to his animations, functional clothing and some things I cannot forgot about so I gonna link the section of the video that has the top Shen Player explain it: ruclips.net/video/fYugvpPYBp8/видео.html after watching it, he's more of a Gameplay Update than a Rework because storytelling and updating animations to modern standards is also what makes rework, Shen has many recucled animations, no Updated or new voicelines to fit with his themes. resulting in him Being an Awful rework and maybe a good Gameplay update. for everyone else despite their flaws(Volibear's ultimate being a shutdown instead of a Advantage against towers is unfair as noone else is really able to effect towers in anyway aside from damage for a reason, FIddlesticks base gameplay does sacrafice so much for that Ult, Pantheon doesn't fit his thematic and feels more like a Cheeky assasin than the representation of courage and Warwicks healing is WAY to high for what he does. though most of these are semi balance changes well maybe except for Panethon and Fiddlestick but Fiddlestick is unique for a reason, Volibear could just slowdown Tower shots, Waricks triple healing could be removed because playing him he doesn't need that as it makes up too much rather than adds to his gameplay like lifesteal at half health) they're great reworks that actually do change both theming and Gameplay to more functional standards.
as someone who played xrd, elphelts new moveset was pretty expected due to the fact that she was really easy to pick up AND master, was comically effective, everything about her was great new elphelt now actually gets punished if shes caught, but still easy to pick up and have fun with
My favorite example of a ??? rework in league is Yorick, I began in League with the reworked version which I like a lot, an annoting splitpusher that makes pressure in the map that gives numeric advantage for your team, but the other day I saw that he was a pet summoner????, nothing to do with his rework, only his new ult, but now I understand why his rework wasnt liked at all
Talking about the issue with the Torb rework, a video talking about characters made to combat a meta would be interesting. Such as warden combatting the old Glaz + smoke meta. Funny enough when warden finally came out they nerfed glaz so badly, the character wasn’t even needed as the meta changed.
Siege has had 2 reworks so far, blackbeard is next The recruit rework (the first one 4 years ago) was good, but incomplete. The second one (this season) finished the job And the tachanka rework was perfect imo Recruit didn't have attachments, non-negotiable in siege. Tachanka couldn't move on the turret, non-negotiable in siege. Hate on either rework comes from the casual community primarily. Both reworks successfully give then modern tools to be useful in siege.
38:30 AS A DISEASE RIDDEN DOOMFIST MAIN I FEEL SO SEEN MAN, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOME CONSISTENCY ON THIS GUY WOULD FEEL SO GOOD. idc about going back to the days of being the sky light assassin that supports dread, i care about a little consistency in my life
@@PixelRory oh god, thank you. i did that whole video without a script. but if you've seen my tweets i think you're entitled to psychological compensation.
Overwatch 2 doesnt want balanced characters. They want every character played equally while at the same time ignoring the fact that some characters are worse made than others
Paladins mentioned
Let's hope it's not bait this time
Paladins WAS mentioned!
They did what to molly!?
@@raulkirbo molly? u mean moji. they reworked her from a flank that was shit to a very strong support
@@kusolp544 yeah but she's boring af and still sucks to go against
It's kind of sad, though, because i loved her before.@kusolp544
@@kusolp544honestly a good change. Moji was a situational flank that could feel like hell to play against or like a free pick every respawn. I like losing her invulnerability and the way she has so much focus on shielding now.
Some more context for the Moji rework
1) They claimed it was also done due to low pickrate (which I find hard to believe considering how many awful champions they added who also have boring personalities and redundant concepts)
2) They made ZERO changes to her for over 3 years when every Moji main suggested a hundred ways to change her.
3) Her talents offered no variety. It was just "get healed for playing the game" "get the occasional double kill by accident" and "also get healed for playing the game"
4) They tried to remove bunnyhopping because it "wasn't intentional". They accidentally gave BUNNYhopping to a BUNNY and didn't want to embrace it.
5) They didn't want to make this an echo champion because Omen didn't do well. Gee, I wonder why people didn't get excited for generic edgy guy #12 with an awful kit made for a MOBA.
I was a Moji main and when they made her a healer I was heartbroken. Also Omen was only fun when they allowed the card deck to make him super silly where you could have only one bullet that does a lot of damage.
What bs.
She statistically had the lowest pick rate. Why are you trying to deny that 😂?
Hi rez summoning 1 million unnamed Atlas, Lilith, Grohk, Octavia, and Kinessa players to never show up in my games or make any fanart.
Grohk is fun for playing him like a damage and casually dropping highest damage in the lobby. Otherwise, why even bother? Lul
i like to think they wouldve embraced bhopping back in the old mobility days, before they put cement shoes on everyone and added a dozen braindead hitscan champs to appease theoretical console players
Calling HRT a “rework” is not what I would have expected but I can’t really DISAGREE
so im 9 minutes into the video and what. i mean i agree im totally going through a rework rn but what
@@wenofu477 he said it at the beginning
@@haidynwendlandt2479 whoops. i might be deaf xd
Ngl a rework does sound like something i'd like right now
Probably means nothing... probably
@@JustSomeBrazilian
shhh.. guys look. the egg is cracking.
it's quite interesting how reworks really should be something to be celebrated by a character's mains: a second chance at life, a breath of fresh air. and yet it feels like reworks are largely more exciting for the people playing *against* the character than for people playing *as* the character. i'm excited when a character i hate gets a rework, and annoyed when a character i like gets a rework. probably has something to do with how much longer it takes to adjust to playing as a reworked character compared to how long it takes to adjust to playing against them, or how most reworks standardize the character and make them lose their unique appeals.
Riot practically deleted old Aatrox and Mordekaiser. Their approach towards reworks is often extremely disrespectful and hostile towards the players of those characters.
After playing Dota 2 I much prefer how Valve reworks their heroes, there are substantial changes that happen often but they rarely strip away parts of the character, instead usually adding to them. If something does need to go, they make sure not to dismantle the character's identity altogether, and keep the changes as small as possible.
Clinkz comes to mind as he's basically had his abilities shuffled around, removed and replaced more times than I can count, but despite this most of his removed abilities are either integrated to other parts of his kit or are unlocked through itemization.
@@TheGenchannelstill sad about asol
i still miss old urgot and galio. they needed reworks but theyre so far removed from the original character
45:40 It feels so unreal to hear my music in someone's video. Thanks for crediting me in the desc!
Moji (from paladins) used to be a pretty beefy, short-ranged dps, that had pretty cool techs, but was really map-specific. Now, she just pumps out inasane heals, has insane bloat and the amout of numbers makes it actually tiring to play her. They removed the most fun parts of her kit, the interraction between the abilities, that led to many different techs, like bunny hop, ulilting while using abilities, shooting someone before putting the barrier up to mark the enemy and deal 1k dmg from distance (you'd have to play her to understand). She still has her dps playstyle, and i think she has even better damage than she had before (which was already close to the best DPS in the game), but they removed her fun techs, the need to time your shots to get full damage from the marks, the barrier being an actual damage tool... What a disaster of a rework
Acting like Moji was ever viable outside of being abusable on two maps is a bit disingenuous though. She needed a rework this just wasn't the rework she needed
My favorite example of a ??? rework is the Panic Attack from TF2.
Prior to the Jungle Inferno update in 2017, the Panic Attack was a weapon where you had to load shots before being able to fire them, alongside an interesting mechanic where it shot faster but with more bullet spread the lower your health was (hence the name Panic Attack). However, since you have to load first before firing, only the Engineer could really make effective use of the Panic Attack, as the other 3 classes with the weapon have it as a secondary, meaning you'd have to swap off your primary and THEN start loading shots, which usually isn't ideal in situations where you'd typically pull out your secondary (such as being out of ammo for your primary while in a fight). That said, Panic Attack on Engineer was insanely fun; going around with shots ready to fire, getting in an enemy's face while intentionally taking damage to get that faster firing speed, and then unloading all four shots at rapid speed. Genuinely one of my favorite weapons to use, even if it was borderline useless on the other three classes.
So how did Valve fix the weapon in the Jungle Inferno update? Simple: they completely threw it out and gave it a new, more boring design. I don't even know what it's really meant for now. It fires more pellets per shot that do less damage but also fire in a fixed spread pattern (as opposed to other weapons with random spread patterns), and both the load -> fire mechanic AND the "low health = faster but less accurate shots" stats were removed entirely. It's a completely different weapon now and I hate it. Yes, it's more useful on all 4 of the classes that have access to it, but the old design was a lot more fun for crazy Engineer players and it just being gone now sucks.
Old panic attack was unique and fun, even if it wasn’t exactly something top tier. Weapons that prioritize uniqueness are great to have.
Now it’s just a generic, bland sidegrade. No fun.
@@insomniacnerd5592 it actually is pretty fun on pyro with the degreaser, but otherwise it's just stock that's slightly better or slightly worse depending on the situation
i wouldnt say its useless, its a straight upgrade to stock on servers with random bullet spread enabled so its still my go to on engi, and its fun to use with combo pyro
@@insomniacnerd5592Clearly you haven’t used it with the degreaser.
I miss the old panic attack so much, it was the backbone of how i liked playing engi, i actually slowly stopped playing the class altogether after not being able to adjust to other shotguns, that said it became my secondary of choice for pyro, so i still use it weirdly, so yeah ??? is precisely how i feel about this rework, i still use and enjoy playing with the gun, but on a totally different class and a completely different playstyle, it barely feels like the same gun
I hope Torb gets his lvl 3 back at some point, I miss it
And i hope i gain wings at some point.
League's balancing team is the definition of sheer trial and error until some people are happy and barely any learning for the future
It's worse than that, league doesn't try to balance it tries to rotate, when league started out the goal with balance changes was to reach some equilibrium where the game would be finished and every character would have a balanced kit. It was always something that was more utopic than a realistic goal but it was the idea behind the changes, but as the game grew change became a goal in itself and they completely gave up on the idea of balancing things it's just about novelty and it makes staying up to date with the game a nightmare because you have no guarantee anything will ever be stable.
Someone finally put it into words better than I ever could wow. It's exactly this. Each change done feels like they've barely, if at all, learned from anything that they've done or that has happened in the past. Like each change is being done by an entirely new team of people with no knowledge of the game's history.
“Overwatch if it was boring”
My brother in Christ that is just overwatch 2
Same with overwatch if it was horny
I played Paladins religiously forever, took a little bit of a break a year ago and THIS video is how I learn they MURDERED my poor wonderful girl Moji.....
dota 2 has a lot of interesting reworks too. examples of reworks that center on defining a hero's identity include ogre magi having their intelligence set to 0, scaling off of strength instead. while medusa had her strength set to 0, giving her next to no health, making her completely reliant on the mana shield.
many heroes have had their ultimates swapped with normal abilities, the items which give heroes new abilities are changed frequently too. many heroes (like techies) also receive big reworks after the internationals.
i hesitate to call the new facet system a collection of hero reworks to choose between but it's kinda true.
Scott The Woz if he used Windows
i feel like smites reworks are generally a good example of good reworks, as the devs have said that when reworking a character, they still try to maintain what made people play the character in the first place, the odin rework being a great example of this
It's best to ignore Freya.
One rework that was healthier for the game and maintained a lot of the spirit of the character but is still kinda a ??? is Ying from Paladins.
Back in Closed Beta, Ying was a damage character, focused on illusions mostly. Imagine current Ying but the healing of the clones are actually dealing damage. Then at some point she was disabled for a while, and when she came back she was a support.
A friend of mine who played the game really liked dps ying and wasn't a fan of the newer version.
So the Moji class swap, while utterly weird and removed a lot of the interest I had in playing her, isn't entirely unprecedented.
When I was younger, I played Trove (MMO-style game with different classes, biomes, difficulty tiers, and a feature where you build a house and can instantly teleport your house to a plot of land in the randomly-generated wild).
My main class was the Revenant. He was really unpopular because he ignored the usual offense stats but scaled with HP instead. I loved him, I became the ~#25 Revenant in the world, showing people he was actually good. He had a great toolkit, too.
Then they reworked him.
He didn’t scale off HP anymore, which meant all the gear I grinded for was worthless. In essence, they deleted my class from the game, lmao. Reset my progress with no reimbursement. I stopped playing - I was already grind-weary, that just finished me off.
But hey, there were more Revenant players after that . . . yay.
just wanted to comment to say it’s rlly clever how you branched out your content. lots of creators fail to expand what games they talk about because the new videos would get less views - but you decided to talk about tons of games alongside ow in the video which was super smart!!
it also helps you play the exact same games im interested in
I miss old Doomfist so much. I don't care if he was unhealthy for the game, he was so fun.
TO BE FAIR to doomfist, the idea of block is actually a pretty clever way to implement the idea of a "parry" in fighting games, he blocks, like in fighting games, and if he blocks properly, he can "parry" with an empowered punch.
it being good or bad is debatable, but yknow. i think people dont give enough credit to dooms rework, as the original idea of a "character similar to fighting games" is still there, just...not as prominent in his actual playstyle.
I've thought about Doom's rework for a while, and while everyday I miss uppercut and I understand why doom got reworked; I really think DPS could still work if more thought was given to it. Lowering wall splat damage or removing it fully, while increasing the base damage of the standard punch removing the common BS one shot, having it so uppercut doesn't rise, or even making it so all of his abilities share a charge like Zarya's new bubbles, In a way mirroring meter in Fighting games, where he either has to build up to doing a crazy combo or only having 2 charges stored so after he does "FROM THE TOP ROPES" and fists all the supports, he can't just run away and do it again- theres a punish window, I really think whoever did the rework just looked at him and went "Oh they like punching" instead of everything else that made him so unique as a character
As a doom main, I approve.
Exactly, Doomfist's original design was based on fighting games and ability combos however the devs constantly want him to stay as punch bot by constantly buffing his empowered punch for some reason.
Dps doom was objectively just a bad toxic design tho.
You had a hero who was built around hard diving the backline with absolutely ridiculous mobility who needed a bunch of extra health and shields to be effective and actively punished good positioning with a super cheesy one shot
He was already a dive tank in the wrong role
@@teejay1646 Doomfist originally wasn't designed at all with backline assassination in mind, they more or less wanted him to stay in a close range brawler/ tank type roll that mainly got his damage, movement and value from all three of his damage abilities as well as maintaining a high up time with your temporary shields by constantly hitting ability combos. Doomfist mains quickly adapted Doomfist to fit more an assassin type roll instead by using punch on slanted geometry for rollouts because of how squishy Doomfist was, taking full advantage of his full 125 slam damage and landing on another squishy dps target or support, uppercutting for more immediate damage, shooting them with hand cannon to finish off the target then getting out quickly with either rocket punch or your ultimate since your shields didn't really make you tanky enough to safely stay in a fight for a long even with full shields on you. Plus to one shot with punch you always needed someone to be near a wall which sometimes wasn't consistent since Doomfist is a very buggy character. I agree Dps Doomfist was a pretty toxic character overall, not because of his potential to one shot but because of how mechanically demanding he was just to get average value in a team fight but on the other hand it made learning all of his small techs kind of satisfying if you put the time into learning them. Blizzard could've also made some small changes to his previous kit to make him less toxic to both play as and against but they barely touch the guy whenever it comes to balancing him and a majority of the time he gets nerfed to varying degrees. Tank Doom is better is some ways but I still believe small changes to make him more consistent would go a long way to help Doomfist feel way better to play.
@@teejay1646you are correct he already operated as a dive tank in ow1 he just became an official dive tank in ow2 that’s it. That’s why doomfist was a dps yet received less changes for his rework into a whole new role yet orisa was already a tank and still received more changes 😂
They could have easily made torb more effective on attack while keeping his builder identity intact, like letting Torb place down other building types when his scrapbar was full and they upgrade when he overloads
That Leon Massey line tells me everything I need to know about this guy. Real G.
I was so confused by Limbus company background theme at the start of a video like this
Talking about fighting games, I think it’s best to mention Ed in Street Fighter 6. He went from one of the lamest characters in SF5 to probably the coolest character in 6. Absolute 10/10 rework
Absolutely agreed. At first, I was pissed to see him in the roster because of his wack ass sf5 design, but now he's my 2nd favorite sf6 character (1st is AKI).
An absolute glow up.
buuut but, 1 2 3 was fun 😢
was not expected to be jumpscared by limbus music, good taste
honestly for the overwatch bit i was hoping he would talk about bastion, as that is a character who really got changed with his rework
Rory, respectfully, this video was unhinged, in a good way. :)
NICEE I LOVE THE QUALITY IMPROVEMENT, THE CAMERA CHANGE IS AMAZING, KEEP IT UP MANNN!!!!
I just pretend I dont see the DPS reworks during GOATs cuz most of them were poorly thought out, regardless if they were soft reworks or more fundamental reworks.
Like why would Mei need to freeze multiple targets when she literally would need to break a 2000 pt barrier with her lower damage or break a shield against a tank that will just jump out the second theres any trouble.
Edit: I feel like Doom could be a really cool character that requires a lot of skill at all levels of play, but I feel like he's just apart of the Mauga/Orisa/Hog crew that hasn't shined yet cuz they always buff Orisa before he can be shown to be fundamentally flawed character. Rocket punch is so important to have a low CD cuz its his best form of mobility, but then it has an AoE stun (which is why Cassidy lost his flashbang) and it can be released prematurely for similar amount of stun with the same AoE.
Meanwhile, his slam does nothing and his block is easily ignored.
As someone who played a lot of moji before her rework, I’ve never been more upset at a character I enjoyed essentially being removed. her rework changed her core gameplay so much that she isn’t remotely the same character.
I heard the ZZZ background music and started panicking cuz i thought i was in a fight and forgot about it :P
to me whenever you rework a character in a way that disrupts/alienates a player base without proper reason to, you immediately fail the rework.
reworks like Aurelion sol and moji have alienated the former player base so much simply due to the reason of "the fanbase was too little"
Aurelion sol could of been kept with a new character been made with the new kit and noone would be angry.
While moji would've been fine to small changes of the kit to make it more friendly to low levels while adding more skill expression to the kit
You shouldn’t be stuck with bad designs just because of the sunk cost. It’s worth alienating the minority in order to make a better character for the game overall.
It isn't complete character rework or overhaul but I just want to mention about Skye in Paladins. Primarly her cards and talent rework.
Skye is flanker that relied on stealth to get close to enemy to burst them down, problem is that she didn't really had that much burst in her kit... Unless you take Cloak and Dagger talent, which make her smoke deal burst damage and combined with card that reduces smoke cooldown whenever Skye hits targets with RMB, she actually got a decent burst (Q -> RMB -> Q) that deals around ~1800 damage where's 1300-1400 damage would have an aoe. That made Skye be actually... playable. She was noobstomper just like Moji, but unlike Moji, Skye falls off already at average skill level, not to mention high level play.
Then, Devs reworked her Cloak and Dagger and made it so it heals allies within a smoke for 400 every second... Which is initially did nothing really. Then, they changed it, so now Skye smoke applied every card buff that Skye had for Smoke to all allies in it... (also they nerfed heal from 400 to 190 because of it) and then, Holy support Skye was born.
One of her cards, was basically healing for 625 health every 2 seconds, which basically means it healed 312 health per second for each ally in smoke screen. Add base 190 and you get 502 healing per second in AOE. Remember that her smoke was also had 100% uptime and she can put two smokes if needed (smokes healing doesnt stack tho) you get a pretty decent healer with % damage to melt any tank on point, since Skye will be at that point, again, mainly due her invisibiltiy as well as the fact that she literally gets to full hp in 3-4 seconds because of a smoke.
But thats not all, she also was able provide up to 40% speedboost for any ally in smoke or for 2 seconds after leaving the smoke and PROVIDING AMMO (4 at base iirc) to anyone entering smoke every 4 seconds (it was really huge for characters like Makoa, Dredge and Drogoz).
Basically, that created Skye support that hard to kill unless you get Cauterize to the max really early that also provides a lot of utility and percent damage. For the first time, Skye wasn't a complete troll pick but a competent choice... For about two patches, where devs completely killed that abomination with nerfs lmao
@@Nink262 not to mention her preparation card getting nerfed because it was too strong on consoles, while on PC it was just alright
28:53 going from persona music to activating project moon sleeper agents
*TORB REWORK HATERS RISE UP*
More seriously now, even as someone who *did not* play overwatch 1 let alone his old version, I hate how they completely gutted the builder identity in exchange for another attempt at a boring lame generalist that is still fairly clunky to play anyways (and he is one of my mains btw). I can definitely see a bunch of issues in his old design, but that does not mean it was the right choice to completely abandon his original and actually unique concept...
Something I think is worth mentioning is the fact that he was actually reworked twice, as he was also heavily changed from beta to release, wich goes to show even from the beginning they clearly had no clue as to how to properly design a builder character (despite the fact they had the TF2 engie right fucking there as a pretty much perfect blueprint lmao).
The beta version (wich you can see in his first gameplay trailers and showcases) used scrap to upgrade the turret wich needed 10 hammer hits per lvl. The turret also did not need molten core to hit lvl 3 and would stay permanently upgraded, in exchage for lvl3 not having as much health as it did on release. So as we can see, even by release Torb had clearly been taken in the wrong direction, by totally watering down his unique resource, the turret and thus the point of the hammer as well. Instead of addresing the pain points of the first iteration, like being unable to move the turret, wich obviously made it both way easier to deal with in defense and pretty terrible in attack (a mistake TF2 made AND fixed years ago by that point), or the scrap sistem wich was *INSANELY* feast or famine, as you literally would only get scrap exclusively from dead enemies and nowhere else, they made that 2nd rework wich cemented this poor direction.
I really hope one day he gets the proper rework he deserves; Reduce his tankiness and damage (if its even necessary), bring back the scrap sistem *but* in a reworked manner so its not so limited and feast or famine, tie this resource to the rest of his kit (maybe overload could be sort of toggleable ability that consumes scrap while its active but gives no overhealth? Maybe the rivet gun 1st fire could repair the turret at the cost of some scrap per shot? plenty of things that could be done) and return to the beta version of the turret, with the 10 hits per lvl that require scrap and permanent lvl3 and overall increase its damage as needed, *oh and also make it so you can damm MOVE IT...*
Anyways sorry for the long rant haha. Great work on the video overall, I can see you put a lotta time on it and I really liked how you used league as a starting point. It shows its both possible to make great reworks that conserve the original uniqueness and identity of the subject while addressing specific pain points and bad design choices, and you can also have awful ones that totally gut a character and/or don't solve anything lmao
Facts, straight facts, I honestly feel like they could have the scrap bar be used to construct different buildings and you would gain scrap via a passive like how old armor packs used to work, I just want something that just isn't place down a weak turret and spam
This is how I discovered they changed Moji
For fuck sake, not mymain but I loved playing as her
Rest in piece good A. Sol, never forget
NEW RORY DROP LETS GOOOOO
25:18 are there two takes of the same line just prior to this?
good video, but its heartbreaking for me that you didnt mentioned the abomination of a rework called Aurelion Sol in the League of Legends part of the video
banger video as per usual (the skits were really punny and ur dog is rly cute!!) keep up the awesome work rory!
@@iLuvCats2302 cat lover praising dogs the day is good
@@PixelRory i love both! hehe
this new video style gives me the vibes of watching scott the woz and that is always an incredible thing, love it
The issue with old Aatrox is that he's just a different flavor of Tryndamere, even down to a "i dont die" mechanic. Both want only 1v1s, both sustain really well, both have ways to engage and chase, both just autoattack you down.
New Aatrox keeps the drain tank fantasy, but swaps him from being a duelist to a juggernaut, giving him a much better fit for his "bringer of war, destroyer of worlds" raid boss fantasy.
I think he was a fantastic rework tbh, and his popularity reflects that. Nobody played or cared about him until the last month he was giga-broken, now he's consistently a popular pick at all ranks regardless of his power, and people are begging for more Aatrox/Darkin content.
I still wish they found a way to balance his revive outside of just removing it. They really tried but I miss it every day.
people complain about new aatrox barely resembling the old one, but in that case, they should be just as harsh towards other drastic reworks. sion barely being the same character is not a problem because his kit was rather weird and lacked synergy with itself. nunu barely being the same character is not a problem because his kit was very weak outside of his ultimate. when aatrox, a balance nightmare who was either way too weak or way too strong, gets reworked, suddenly then it becomes a problem? even exil called old aatrox "the only champion removed from the game" despite him not being a special case
funny how people beg for a champion to be reworked, but when it does happen, people complain. might as well never rework at this point
As a former dps doom main, i have to agree with everything you said about his rework, it just ended up making him dumber, less fun to play, ruining his identity by a fair bit AND from what I've heard he's still annoying to fight so yeah classic blizzard moment😂
These old WW clips brings flashbacks of memories. WW lvl1 jungle start from dragon. Or AP WW and one Q fully healed you. Q ult Q = enemy dead, you full hp.
I would argue, that the Chamber Teleport was a rework as well. The teleport now works totally different from when he came out
Also speaking of the Valorant part: the talk about Neon is in there twice, if you can cut it^^
@@stranger4537 oh shit I may be stupid
I hope he will continue this series
Old Doom needed to go. New Doom doesn't get immediately deleted for mispositioning, but what tank does? He has less offensive capability to match.
I know Doomfist is healthier now but I want dps doom back. He was so fun. I had over 400 hours on him but once ow2 came out I completely dropped him. He feels so lame now. I 100% understand why they changed him but they killed what made him so fun for me. Also personally I had no trouble playing against him probably because I mained him I knew what he could do. I played a lot of support and other squishes and I could track his cooldowns, know where he is on the map because I knew almost every possible rollout and if you’re smart almost anything can counter him. yeah he could be annoying but I never understood why so many people like refuse to learn how to play around him and cry about it instead. What he is now isn’t the same character I sunk so much time into
your empowered slam idea got me thinking
idea 1: what if slam want just affected by the empowerement but also charged like punch? like a spring - you hold it longer, you fly off with greater force, the lowest one being a quick slam on the ground. the empowerement would then either boost the fixed slam damage or add in greater pull towards df
idea 2: what if empowerement was generated instead by people hit with your abilities and block was shifted to generating shields past dropping it and had max duration removed? this way the charge would be reliant on hitting aggressive angles with as many of enemies as possible, but with the influx of your sustain shifted towards the defensive ability you suddenly become way more wary of such engagements, creating a sort-of constant back-and-forth of offense and defense
Another thing about Moji is that there have been several patches where she has had the highest winrate and several where she has had the lowest.
Hey, as someone who has similar tastes (I assume based on this video) to you I really recomend sticking with fighting games until the motion inputs are not really something you think about, around that that time you should feel a lot more comfortable playing in general. I recommend sajam as great content creator that helps through the pains of learning the genre and core-a gaming for cool video essays about fg design.
League of legends scott the woz
I feel like doom fist ock have a pretty stright forward fix : makes the duration very short, and the cold down very short. So it rely on you quickly react to incoming damage, like a block in fighting game.
20:14 I've come to learn thats a misconception, Fighting games aren't about motion inputs, Typically you only like a couple of special moves are needed most of the time it's about using the tools you have like basic moves, timing and special awearness to your advantage.
this usually the problem with Fighting game toturials they don't actually get you to be used to those tools and just throw you into combos when most of the time your gonna struggle even getting close to using one.
Your best vid yet man, love the channel always
You should make a video about reworks so bad that they had to go back to the previous design, in OW there are several examples like Mei, Cassidy, Moira, etc. In Smite there is also some example, I think Freya went through the same thing.
Reworks are usually quite a good thing, but if you are a player of the old version you will miss them.
Doomfist was toxic as hell imo, but felt so unique. Aurelion Sol is someone I dabbled in from time to time, and while I like the new one the old one will never be playable again. This video is a really nice trip down memory lane.
Also man, do I hear some limbus company OST here? Thats quite unexpected and already enough for a sub alone lmao.
me when limbus company ost
To add insult to injury, where Zarya's bubble/Dva matrix/Orisa fortify/Sigma's grasp can negate CC to some extent (Eating sleep for example), Doom's block does NOT block any CC even if facing it. So now, Doom goes in, gets CC'd and dies
BRING BACK OLD AATROX D:
I HEAR THE LIMBUS COMPANY SOUNDTRACK, LONG LIVE LIMBUS COMPANY
paladins and moji mentioned
we are eating well tonight
I like the idea if an empowered slam, it just needs to be chargeable so you can choose whether to empower it or not.
Plus a long press vs short press input is a lot more like a fighting game.
The thing about Moji's rework is that at least her primary fire works, we can't say the same about the Kasumi one, borderline unplayable
4:58 eh close to, His triple healing is my main issue with him, he doesn't need that, his Q's max health healing, base Lifesteal and ult give him more than enough to keep him in the fight if he's fighting but that triple healing basically makes it almost impossible to 1v1 in melee combat, everything else can defiently be countered but that triple healing basically makes it to where Warwick doesn't need to keep much track of his health aslong as he's hitting something, not using his abilities in tandum with it so he can actually surivive.
You know that last saying gives me an idea: "Upon reaching 30% warick Gains triple Increased healing from his abilities" instead of just autoing more to get more that he already does he has to weave in and keep track of his mana and cooldowns to make sure he survived the onslaught, encourging him to care.
Still aside from that Everything else is pretty great, you forgot to mention how for the W you basically gain lots of vision on champions and if you can keep track of it you can give it to your teamates.
Builder Torb my beloved, please be returned to me stronger then ever - the FPS player in my soul yearns for Engineer TF2 in every single game I play
3:08 noonono it is, as theming is just as important as gameplay as you don't play Warwick to play a Fast moving drain tank, you play Warwick to be the Failed Experiment hound dog and trying to be Protector of Zaun.
he takes he's overall generic werwolf stick and does something new with it in showing his side of his new story with the chemicals surgecally attached ot him.
40:37 I hate how they well actually more so Renekton, I forgot Pantheon does have mana.
renekton should have a reasource management like everyelse, Rage isn't a reasource managment thing because his abilities aren't locked behind it, so you don't have to worry about not spamming it as much.
renekton should have mana bar and a reward for not using his empowered abilities as in a choice aside from which one, encourged to fill up fully so it he isn't left with nothing if he doesn't have mana as a Juggeraunt.
Doom is like the morde of overwatch
i love the zzz background music
is that zzz background music?
I think a good rework is making
the character fun while keeping their identity intact
Omega Strikers OST in the video discussing hero shooter balance nightmares. It's peak.
Yoru rework made him playable and one of my favorite characters to play when i randomly hop on val
11:21 thats an iffy because that was skarner's problem he was just generic Scorpion, now he's Bigger Generic Scorpion with Three tails, what he's missing is how he's new lore(trully one of the worst decision Riot made under Kai'sa character design)he's like honored creature of the people and yet he doesn't really ceremional looking pieces to him to show that, making his colors really toned down.
Resulting in not only his base skin failing to really be new, but also most of his skin aside from the exception of Battlecast(that one is more peak that I would've thought, they should've made the dropped Bomb more obvious so it didn't look like they recycled the Rock again) have be made to either Be worse with Forest gurdian, Nothing changing like with high Noon, or somewhat made better like with Sand Guradian.
The reworks done with shields in R6 is just too damn great, overall, they don't feel strong still having those counters (echo, ela, orxy, clash, cav, smoke, tachanka, maestro, any operator with nitro/impact) ,but def not as bad as it was
The reason why Raze was nerfed at the same time as Neon got buffed allthough they have the same function of entrying the side being chaotic with their movement is the use of Raze in pro play. The game like valorant thats really focused on esports has a feature of dictating whats meta and whats not by just having those pro games. People just look at what and how is played in high level and carry it in casual Plat games. Raze was a meta for a very long time because ahe is the only character that can get straight into backsite or highground while entrying using VERTICAL space. Usually in valorant you look upwards only to break util which makes it a hard crosshair placement breaker. So naturally people ignore raze flying out until she lands because it will break your aim and even if you do kill her you will get easily traded, not to mention that you need to break all of the util like Gecko flash, Reyna flash, Sova dart etc. Neon on the other hand, does the same job but on the ground. She is more predictable in her movement to deal with, allthough still chaotic. But at least you wont be forced to look straight up or behind you to counter when she is entrying akin dealing with Raze.
Great vid, i can see the improvement in each new video.
For Honor is REWORK: The Game
Oh god i was SO SAD when aatrox changed, i really didnt have the same power fantasy as the old one, a new one and pretty fun if mastered one, but still, i miss ma boy, oh and morde too.
a good ??? is Revenant Reborn in Apex. completely changed his kit allowing for a hyper aggressive "raid boss" feeling kit. fits his character wayyyy more. downside is it's incredibly overpowered 😭
huge respect for zzz music
My core issue with issue with Overwatch is that they failed to balance skill and fun, also:
Orisa rework meh
Hanzo technically healthy but bad
Symmetra ultimate is too weak in a fast paced game like OW but it is broken in the Valorant ver, bad
Cassidy bad
Doomfist bad (I miss trying to snipe Pharahs)
Widow charge up good
Mercy except the hitbox in ult change good
And the OW rework to OW 2 absolutely rubbish
Doomfist rework was objectively good opinion discarded
I think it also depends on how much the game wants to encourage haivng "Mains", dota very often switches character roles, orcompletey changes their core gameplay, but i dont remember anybody really complaining about that
Siege has had some insane reworks, most of which have been bewildering
Wheres the dota 2 heroes?
Limbus mentioned!!! (shout out best gacha game ever, music, story, characters, etc.)
1:44 Shen is an exception, he more a half rework than a real due to his animations, functional clothing and some things I cannot forgot about so I gonna link the section of the video that has the top Shen Player explain it: ruclips.net/video/fYugvpPYBp8/видео.html
after watching it, he's more of a Gameplay Update than a Rework because storytelling and updating animations to modern standards is also what makes rework, Shen has many recucled animations, no Updated or new voicelines to fit with his themes.
resulting in him Being an Awful rework and maybe a good Gameplay update.
for everyone else despite their flaws(Volibear's ultimate being a shutdown instead of a Advantage against towers is unfair as noone else is really able to effect towers in anyway aside from damage for a reason, FIddlesticks base gameplay does sacrafice so much for that Ult, Pantheon doesn't fit his thematic and feels more like a Cheeky assasin than the representation of courage and Warwicks healing is WAY to high for what he does. though most of these are semi balance changes well maybe except for Panethon and Fiddlestick but Fiddlestick is unique for a reason, Volibear could just slowdown Tower shots, Waricks triple healing could be removed because playing him he doesn't need that as it makes up too much rather than adds to his gameplay like lifesteal at half health) they're great reworks that actually do change both theming and Gameplay to more functional standards.
as someone who played xrd, elphelts new moveset was pretty expected due to the fact that she was really easy to pick up AND master, was comically effective, everything about her was great
new elphelt now actually gets punished if shes caught, but still easy to pick up and have fun with
My favorite example of a ??? rework in league is Yorick, I began in League with the reworked version which I like a lot, an annoting splitpusher that makes pressure in the map that gives numeric advantage for your team, but the other day I saw that he was a pet summoner????, nothing to do with his rework, only his new ult, but now I understand why his rework wasnt liked at all
not to mention how pre-rework he was effectively muted out of the game alongside old poppy (no free rotation appearances, no mentions in patches etc)
Talking about the issue with the Torb rework, a video talking about characters made to combat a meta would be interesting. Such as warden combatting the old Glaz + smoke meta. Funny enough when warden finally came out they nerfed glaz so badly, the character wasn’t even needed as the meta changed.
The good, the bad, and the mid
Overwatch if it was made by eskay may be the greatest sentence ive heard
Siege has had 2 reworks so far, blackbeard is next
The recruit rework (the first one 4 years ago) was good, but incomplete.
The second one (this season) finished the job
And the tachanka rework was perfect imo
Recruit didn't have attachments, non-negotiable in siege.
Tachanka couldn't move on the turret, non-negotiable in siege.
Hate on either rework comes from the casual community primarily.
Both reworks successfully give then modern tools to be useful in siege.
Day 24 of asking for an Irish Review of Risk of Rain 2/Returns (WAIT A MINUTE ROR RETURNS MENTION AND TERRARIA CALAMITY MUSIC????!)
the Elphelt changes were extremely isolating to me as a longtime gg xrd elphelt player
38:30 AS A DISEASE RIDDEN DOOMFIST MAIN I FEEL SO SEEN MAN, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOME CONSISTENCY ON THIS GUY WOULD FEEL SO GOOD.
idc about going back to the days of being the sky light assassin that supports dread, i care about a little consistency in my life
@@MarsMews holy shit real marsmews
@@PixelRory oh no, if you know me that's probably not a good thing
@@MarsMews LMAO. I've seen your tweets + the season 10 review video. Banger btw
@@PixelRory oh god, thank you.
i did that whole video without a script.
but if you've seen my tweets i think you're entitled to psychological compensation.
Since Hi-Rez was mentioned, it reminds me of all of Smites Reworks. Specifically Persephone and how lifeless she is compared to her original version.
Overwatch 2 doesnt want balanced characters. They want every character played equally while at the same time ignoring the fact that some characters are worse made than others
reworks, the good, the bad and the skarner