Shelf space is indeed a thing. Another problem is pricing out the working class American kids that had previously been seduced over from cardflopping. Now the cards are pushing warhammer out of FLGS entirely. Its a far more economical use of play and shelf space for an FLGS to cater toward the TCG crowd. They also make far better margins... GW recently cut the profit margin for their products to retailers and have doubled down on increasing product packaging sizes.
As some who played Magic the Gathering I 100% hear you. Cards are just as expensive as Warhammer if you want to play competitively but those hits are a lot smaller. So you don't have to put more money in big hits - Cal
@@Payomeke Painting for sure but there is 100% a hobby build around deck building, it is a deep deep dive. It may not be constructing models like we do but it a massive sub hobby as big as conversion is perhaps bigger in Warhammer - Cal
I hadn't considered the retailer issue of stocking a faction that never really gets updated. It would disincentivise keeping older model lines around, especially when the flashy new space marines are right next to them!
Well we watched a video and this is what someone suggested this is what caused the end of the old world, that super fans had nothing to buy for years at a time. I think it was Olden Golden? Or something like that... Olden Demon I think that was his name - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowI can confirm that lack of content directly contributes to the death of my first miniature game, x-wing. There were other problems to be sure, but one of the big issues was half the “new” content coming out was of no use to the experienced player who already had so much stuff and definitely didn’t need yet another reprint to the new edition.
Not receiving updates is a functional death spiral for factions in games like these, and GW has this problem in spades. No updates means sales drop off as old players have what they want and new players tend not to like older styles. Drop in sales means less retail space and less investment by GW which only compounds the issue. GW has such a hyper focus on pushing out as much of their "safe" options as possible that it becomes an active detriment to everything else. Space marines are the obvious example of this - they'll spit out a dozen new space marine models yet factions of the Dark Eldar or the LoV are missing half their rosters. Another worse, yet rarely discussed, example would be the Stormcast in AoS. They've been around for a fraction of the time, yet their range has over 100 models it - all while multiple factions struggle to break a total of 20 models in their respective ranges.
this is why i stopped playing harlequins.i travel a lot for work.after i've heard half of europe say "sorry,we don't have any quins,is there something else you'd like" i just switched to blood angels
When it comes to space marines, i think there's a massive bloat issue with the primaris marines Even ignoring the 30 models of Primaris Lieutenants. They turned what was a single Tactical and Devastator squads into a dozen of single-weapon on the entire squads that are literally the same models just with different weapons.
Might just be me, but when it comes to them squatting models, like they will with the Firstborn one day, the issue isn't not being able to use them in the game, but not being able to buy them, to assemble, to paint, etc. There are a lot of models i wanted to buy just to have them, just for GW to run out of stock and just never restock them until they went went 'whoops into legends it goes and we're no longer gonna sell them'
Hell, with 30K you have the advantage that building the ten man special weapon squads has you buy a tactical marine squad, then a smaller special weapon kit. You could do the same with the primaris special weapon squads, more than likely.
The guy who runs my local store loves Horus Heresy because of shelf space and upgrades. You can build so many of the units out of the basic tactical squad and either an upgrade pack or printed bits. And it's not just that upgrades take less space than kits; he knows he's going to constantly sell the tactical boxes. And with games like Bloodbowl, it avoids people only buying a single army. A team isn't a big commitment, so they're Bloodbowl players instead of Ork or Space Marine players. So he loves that, too. I kind of feel like specialist games are healthier than 40k and AOS in most ways now. Wish I knew why they get run so differently. Re: Marines. I'd be shocked if we don't end up with a full range of firstborn-style armor marines for Horus Heresy. They'd get double mileage out of merging firstborn and Primaris units!
Biggest issue for GW is the pricing. The insane pricing strategy has closed the Warhammer door on anyone without significant extra income and time. A box of the current standard Space Marines is over $60 - a price that used to be reserved for Land Raiders and other premier model kits. Inflation eventually gets us all, but those prices were from only 10 years ago. Right now, a Land Raider Crusader costs $115 - an increase of almost 92% over its introductory price of the original 2000 model which was only $60 and has only received upgrade sprues in the intervening 24 years.
I find that it's a lot more than mere high pricing for GW. They are predatory and soulless when it comes to the retail side of things. Constant updates to the lexicon, so you have to buy new ones. Super high prices for everything. Eliminating armies for no reason, etc... I boycott GW, and my life has not suffered in the slightest.
The range bloat is a real problem. HQ, Elite, Troops and all that, every army should have three to four choices for each selection. Marines should be one codex, maybe with a single unique HQ and special unit for chapter flair.
I miss the day back in 3rd or 4th ed where you have exactly that. Fill Troops with Tactical Squads. Then fast attack, you have Assault Marines or Land Speeders. Then for Heavy Support you have Devastators, Predator Tanks or a Land Raider. Etc. Now I open up a modern codex and I am thrown into a soup of different units, many of which fill the same role and overlap so much it's obvious they just wanna sell new stuff, game design be damned.
thre range bloat i can agree on, multiple kits that are similiar with some changes (like different loadout). the rest, absolutely not, let me explain. ruleswise, limiting the amount of options down to those numbers in every selection of units is impossible for a lot of the factions. model wise, you cant do it either (at least not for every faction in the game). the one thing that could be done is to roll together all kits that are similiar (faction generic kits mainly, like generic space marine kits (with "primaris" being the main culprit)), as it would cut down on near identical kits and consolidate them into fewer but slightly larger kits (but it would most likely lead to another price hike, which the playerbase do not want). this would free up SOME shelfspace for the stores, that could be used to hold more items from other ranges. Marines ARE already one codex (as of 9th ed.), with supplements for each chapter that has a warranted need for it. and no, do not limit it to a single HQ and special unit for chapter flair. keep it as is. the chapters get their flare from their unique rules and decked out range of themed units such as Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templars, their flare comes from their unique and thematic ranges and their unique ruleset. remove that flare and you might just as well remove subfactions entirely.
What are they supposed to do though? It seems that it's release or die, if new models aren't coming out that they can sell it's kinda hard to do business. Especially for old veterans it's really hard to justify just getting another unit of the squad that they already have. That being said, as of right now, factions like Votann and Drukhari are still small enough to work with that kind of idea of what an army is supposed to be (with which I agree with by the way), fingers crossed.
@@LordDiabetusIIIcycling in new posed model kits has worked for a few other games. Or have the base options, and release cycling upgrade kit sets, that way the core boxes will always be useful - like Heresy. Otherwise, keep the models that used to exist and swap what model loadouts can go into what squads, and put a new combo box of those alongside that swap with new looks or armor styles but allows old players to still use their old stuff if they need to be. I dont think 100 sheets in SM is healthy, but since firstborn needs to go, we have a solid chance to start fresh.
@@LordDiabetusIIIhype cycle isnt sustainable and convincing themselves that it is is a self psy-op. All it is is a manipulative sales tactic for short term profit ranges of maybe a few weeks or a month, while ignoring yearly numbers. Look how many businesses dont even last 3 years any more because theyre creating an insanely blown out product cycle and they dont even have time to QA/R&D and just ship DoA product putting all their money into the marketing? They spend and lose all their money on production cycling praying somehow theyll be able to recoup costs, then the initial hype ends and they level out on sales and instead of keeping that product as a reliable income source over time, they change everything up and throw away reliable income
But this is all their fault... They used to only make a certain amount of kits, and if you wanted to do extra stuff, they PAID EMPLOYEES who wrote and created rules and showed you ways to convert EXISTING model lines into the new units. They did not like this, so they wanted to SELL US MORE. THEY stopped providing modeling guides. THEY stopped providing terrain building guides. THEY started box locking their unit kits. THEY stopped encouraging kitbashing and scratchbuilding and now they are suffering for expanding far too much.
Well your not wrong on they want to sell more and you're 100% on they have discouraged kitbashing... I am not sure all their fault but I certainly see you point as we have decried the stuff about kitbashing - Cal
@@alexknudsen2759 You are all G, sorry if I came off too heavy handed, just trying to have a back and forth. We try to reply to as many people as we can especially people who have good points like you do, even if we don't agree with those points - Cal
Personally I think there are too many space marines. What they need to do which you touched on is have upgrade kits. Sell the basic bland marines but have the details be sold separately and have them be cheap extra you can buy for like pocket change. You can even do thar for every other faction too. It could even encourage custom army building by letting me get a blank model then green stuff mold my own insignia and bits. Also keep up with the kill team as a cheaper warhammer but have the models be usable as official proxy for actual warhammer40k models.
Imo this is one of the biggest reasons we didn't need Primaris Marines. By 2017 the loyalist SM range was close to completion, ignoring a few characters here and there. Slowly rescaling the Marine range for a 30mm base was all that really needed to happen.
As a marine player, they need to re-evaluate and condense kits. Hellblasters can't justify being a single kit at this point. Same with internus marines The boxes need to be merged to save shelf space as even the extra bits for the plasma incinerators don't have rules now They need to save shelf and storage space
Feel like they need some more upgrade sprues for literally every faction. There’s one now for CSM- Night Lords. People LOVE those models. Do the same for everyone.
Good talk. Range is bloated in some regards but I believe the community is getting really tired of paying for a new codex every 3ish years and getting a single new model or updated model. Everything feels very stagnant right now.
And the price of a codex these days - just shy of $100 Australian for a book that will be replaced in 3 or so years (unless the new edition does an index reset, in which case it's even less time) AND the rules will be Errata-ed, FAQ-ed and Dataslate-ed in a couple of months.
As a Tau & Aeldari player it is kind of painful. I've had to admit that 40K just feels like "the Space Marine game" now. I'm playing AoS for the most part.
Thank you for mentioning "The Great Purge" in AoS. I was about to start buying minis when that happened. Then I heard about GW doing it before with the transition from Fantasy to AoS. Now I feel a strange pressure to only buy the newest sculpts even though I recognize it doesn't really matter unless I'm going to play in tournaments.
Ironically this just creates a self fulfilling prophecy where they cancel the things that aren’t selling, and they’re not selling because of fear they will be axed
I think it was one of Games-Workshops most foolish decisions. It had long time advocates turn against them and when your 'priests' turn against you, you're in trouble - Cal
To be honest, that's gonna be a great thing for people just interesting in painting, not play, because most of those armies will be dumped at a great discount on ebay
Another problem GW have invented for themselves are the multipart but monopose intertwined miniatures just so that they could stop third party companies making bits; which is now utterly redundant because people are simply making 3D prints, some of which are just straight rips of GW models. But you can't make a unique mini using a standard base model with a special sprue of specific pieces or kitbased and converted because these new fiddly models won't allow it.
Definitely a retailer's dilemma, especially if you're producing your own goods, and it is hard to communicate it to someone who has never had to face it. Also, you should have ended with, "keep those deathbrushes wet". 😂
I honestly believe there are too many factions. A lot of resources are pumped into releases that they can't back up, such as with the Leagues of Votann. Half and Army and barely any Lore. If the purpose of the Tau was to capitalise on the asian market/ interests, I understand that. The World Eaters released at the end of 9th with fully-fledged Lore and love behind them, Leagues of Votann and possible brand new armies in the future will just add bloat and lesser the potential to sell GW's existing range due to an even longer wait for models and codex's. Plus a lack of understanding of untapped markets.
AYE! It's the Amber King we like your stuff man hit us up if you ever want to collab. I really like the Votann and their addition, but you're not wrong when it comes to their lack of lore. But despite my enjoyment of them... You may be right which doesn't make me happy. However! I am super happy to see you here man, you have an awesome week - Cal
Hell, even the World Eaters didn't get an impressive range, compared to say the Death Guard. They really need to focus on the well established factions and making them all enjoyable to play.
Honestly I only really play the video games and listen/read lore, and a friend recently got me into Kill Team. I hope it gets more popular because its sooo much more doable for me. Hopefully they move that way more for my sake! Hope it doesn't die...
Kill team is a great gateway. I find the best way to get into bighammer is with printing or Chinaman. But frankly, for a lot of people it's not even about price, time investment is a big deal
@@kraftyevan Yea I'm just a chronic hobbiest and love the wh40k lore. But I won't even play video games that are too much of a time investment. Plus having multiple small teams of diff factions seems more interesting to me than investing in an insanely huge army. Also I can def see myself spending a few hours at my LGS on a weekend playing a few rounds of killteam rather than a whole day playing a full big hammer game.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yea honestly I play a lot of Warhammer Combat Cards, and told my friend I'd be interested in trying wh40k tabletop but just seemed like too much for me. He then told me about Killteam and most of my fav cards in WCC come in Killteam sets! So I'm even more committed to the idea now lol
I just love how you build up from one banter to another, I do enjoy your videos and I like the chill format just be fun and have fun and you will provide more fun for your viewers. Cheers!
Marines - I’d love it if space marines got less options and more upgrade sprues to customize them. I am sick of so many space marine players who treat their subfaction as a whole unique army worthy of a full range all to itself (though as a Black Templar, I admit my primaris crusaders are mighty fine looking). Firstborn can go away just by bringing a new scaled up tactical squad - make it fit with the existing intercessors and I’d buy multiples just to outfit my old intercessors with heavy weapon options they’re missing
I've been a big supporter of this idea for years. The different legions don't deserve to be their own factions when 95% of their ranges (if they're lucky) are identical to each other. Functionally, you could just do one big marine codex with each legion just getting its own subfaction ruleset within the book.
@@spnked9516the hilarious thing is that’s basically what we have in 10th and the fanboys are mewling over the fact there’s no special rule for chapter such and such. In terms of the game balance, I think the obvious answer is “armies with unique minis must play a detachment associated with them” so you don’t have “space marines but better” happening with things like Dark Angels or Templars. I’d even be ok if the 4 remaining marine subfactions with unique units (not just a character) got ripped out of the codex and got their standalone book with access to only a handful of core marine units - think like the monogod chaos codexes who have access to their unique things plus some very basic vanilla chaos. So we’d have codex blood angels and the only things they could take were in the book, not “hey the whole massive range AND these extras”
I miss Marines being Marines. My first army was Blood Angel. Tycho and Dante were cool and rare, but now people complain that the assault veterans don't have full-sized wings. I miss the Blood Angels, and Marines in general, still being relatively normal.
The constant churn of new models and discarding of old ones is very clearly a signal that their strategy is to squeeze as much money as they can out of existing customers (the whales), at the expense of creating an enjoyable game for cultivating the long tail. 40k built an hobby and business selling tactical squads. It worked for decades.
I think making new models isn't bad, but I think the pace and how they are made is bad. So just how they are on the sprue more variety more different stuff: Fantastic. Less intuitive design harder to build models: Suck. we would have killed for the stuff we can get today, except we would have quit on mass if they made it the way they do today I totally agree that make it for the long term not the short gain - Cal
People joke about 40k getting hit with its own "End Times" event, but it'll actually be a thing that happens a lot sooner than they realize. GW has already shifted 40ks focus away from being a setting and towards being a narrative, which naturally means it's moving towards an inevitable end point (ie Primarch returning and the Emperor's "ascending"). This is push along by questionable or otherwise bad corporate decisions on the part of GW (price hikes, range bloat, lack of updates for certain factions, fomo tactics, supply, etc etc) which will eat away at sales as they get worse (pricing in particular is reaching a danger point - about $90-$100 per 10 baseline infantry is roughly the consumer breaking point). GW will use the narrative as an excuse to wipe the board clean and replace their existing property with one that's more "open" and "corporate safe". Anything that isn't carried over will be scrapped entirely or sold to consumers again in an updated but much less defined manner (see Fyreslayers, DoK, etc etc in AoS).
Its amazing how much could have been avoided if they had the Primaris just a regular range update, like any other army would get. When your fraction is so painfully homogenous, you don't need entirely different sculpts for random loadouts and maybe all those filthy non-marine fractions might get a release once in a century.
I've been playing Mordheim semi-regularly. It's a Games Workshop game that's been discontinued since 2004 and is entirely fan supported. My buddies and I use 90% 3d printed or 3rd party models, we make our own terrain and we use the fan-made rules expansions. We also make our own rules for our cool terrain because we feel like it. Yesterday we played Battlefleet Gothic. Its been discontinued 2014. We used 25 year old models which are literally older than my opponent and today we spent an hour browsing stl files for printing and discussing the rules with other fans on discord. Lads, lasses, I think wargaming will be alright even if GW "implodes", "explodes" or just fades away. Because the white-bearded grumblers will keep the games alive. I admit that it sure would suck not being able to have unreasonable price hikes, questionable lore and underwhelming miniature releases to disappoint us in the future, but I think we will cope without those things as our 3d printers work and we continue to make our own terrain. You mentioned TSR, you know that people still play Ad&d 2nd eddition out there. And do you wanna know something sad about that? I feel closer to those old grognards than to the new crop of "players".
They've got the perfect opportunity to slot in special weapons into the basic intercessor squad. It's called Kill Team. In fact it's such an easy solution, I'm shocked they haven't done it already, made a Kill Team out of intercessors where they throw in a sprue with tons of new options for them to use. They've already done that with Chaos Space Marines, and CSM already had a lot of options.
Single correction. GW is a miniature making company. They are not a games company. The games support the sale of the miniatures, which are what pay their bills. Not the other way around.
I really wish they would make a Primaris Tactical Squad and Devastator Squad. The difference would be 5 man tactical squads. This would let them load up in an impulsor, and double the amount of special weapons for 5 man teams. I have 5 old tactical squads, and would be happy to get some new ones. Its one of the reasons I want to start a chaos army. The Legionnaire get this, but have to still use a Rhino. I don't have any interest in Intercessors.
I would say price is perhaps the most pressing issue for most - as late as today I checked out the shelf at my local dealer and the prices were absolutely insane - a box I looked at - big and heavy, not gonna lie - cost so much I thought that in order to afford it, one would have to take out a second mortgage on the house. And that is not viable in the long run, especially not for younger people who will seldom be able to afford the models, but also not for older, who have bills to pay. Games are at the bottom line a luxury.
There was a serious culling of Space Marine "Firstborn" datasheets and kits with the roll out of the 10th edition Space Marine Codex. While the datasheets exist in Legends, most players regard the units as no longer viable. In many ways Horus Heresy feels like it should be the new home for die hard First Born Space Marine players. With no ongoing support to keep the older kits balanced in the current 40K game they will see less play. One Page Rules may also be an option for these Space Marine players who want to use their older models. At this point the Space Marines maintain the bloat through GW regularly adding new models to the range because Space Marines sell. I have to wonder how stronger support for the other factions would help sales. At this point it feels as though GW is in a cycle of no sales = no new models = no sales. The question is how much to support each faction to optimize return on development costs. I think Kill Team allows GW to test the waters with new kits. They can gauge demand with a smaller investment in design time.
i find it so interesting hearing from people in other countries about 40k, im in the uk and looking at gw website the majority of 40k is in stock like for example the dark angels only have 4 thing out of stock and 2 of those are upgrade sprues. also when talking about money too uriel being 67 aud there, is mad uriel is £26 here and i can get a discount at a 3rd party for most models.
Yeah I'm in the US and they constantly have stuff out of stock online for weeks, sometimes months, at a time. Worse, if you ask to get notified when something is back in stock online they only email you if it goes back in stock on the UK website.
Speaking of stock issues, there was a time span of literal years you could not buy War Dogs for a chaos knight army. Seriously, between their initial release in 9th and now there was a gap of over 2 years where you just couldn’t get them unless you were right in the money when a retailer announced they’re back in stock - off the online shelf in mere minutes
To be the doomsayer here, I DO think GW know the implosion is coming (plus 3d print, 3rd party models, etc) and they don't actually care. They are desperate to get 40k to mainstream consciousness (and if Fantasy can do that too, the better) through movies, series and videogames, so that the IP have a high value so they can sell it off to a chump company who buys the IP, models and all, without understanding a single thing about the miniature game and it will tank in a few years but the owners who sold the company already ran off with the billions of dollars.
I think you are right with the idea of them wanting to go mainstream... however I think that 3D printing thing isn't hurting them as much, but we will probably need to do a full video on that to articulate our thoughts - Cal
someone at least at GW has notice this, just look at all those guard vehicles that used to come in different boxes just getting put into one, like the baneblade variants and that upgrade sprue and the leman russes. And soon possibly all the chimera hulls.
GW certainly needs to stop giving it's fanbase minis that arguably won't sell well, they need to listen to us as consumers on what we want, because these days, what's the point of buying from GW? These days (If you can afford it) it's better to just buy a 3d printer and create minis from STLs rather than fork up hiked up prices, sure it'll be really expensive in the short term, but it would be cheaper in the long run. GW hasn't really been making the best financial decisions in the past year or two, so the possibility of them heading towards an implosion isn't surprising.
GW is targetting the wide part of the funnel. People who 3d print or have access to 3d printers belong to the more narrow part of the funnel and demographically are a minority, which isnt GW's target market. Plus it the juice isnt worth the squeeze. From a business pov, it makes sense to simply ignore us 3d printers cuz they aint gonna make much money outta us
Correct, but we don't even have it the worst NZ is worse than us but I think we are the cannery in the coal mine because we aren't as far ahead of you in pricing as you may think - Cal
Your points are valid & well-articulated. I have had little dealing with GW since the end of Warhammer Fantasy & I have seen how smaller hobby shops struggle with shelf space & would often remove other game systems (Some of which are better then 40k IMO) just to have extra shelf space the GW flavor of the month in the hopes that it will turn a quick profit.
I think the hopes of turning a quick profit is the problem with the whole industry, and not just this one. But hobbies are recession proof but, only if you have loyalty and I fear that they are spending their loyalty - Cal
I know this isn't the world, l know we aren't GW main market etc but localy, with people making 500-550$ a month with a good job, a 3d printer or buying models from someone with one is the prefared way to play. Also regarding "it will stick around" my army us 6 years old , as models in it are 6 years old. GW still phased it out.
Price rises are one thing, but customers are getting bitten on both sides by shrinking package deals. People are forced in one direction, and thats FOMO boxes. Competition is so high for these boxes and it's very anti-consumer. It's not fun and I think it's reckless. It courts resentment from the community.
I don’t mind finecast, lots of guard models are still in metal. They do frequently make new models for guard though but it’s funny that some that are still used never got updated to fine cast, much less plastic.
I think so many of the old metal sculpts were just so good. I do wish that they got some plastic but, well all the points we pointed out in this episode... - Cal
"Give the Intercessors special weapons" I've been making some custom rules and units in 9th edition for my friends and I, and reducing the bloat in the Space Marines codex by merging all the Firstborn and Primaris marines together was literally the first thing I did lmao I merged Tactical Squads and Intercessors into 'Tactical Intercessors'; they're literally just Intercessors with access to Special and Heavy weapons
How does anyone buy from the GW website when there is no international shipping? Most of us really have 2 options. eBay and Amazon. Otherwise, get a 3d printer.
I don't even touch ebay, if anything it's a way to pay more fore even less... Worse than GW themselves, which is I why I stick to tiny retro mini seller sites and a couple of recasters for hard to get old forgeworld models. Plus it's cheap as fuck, so I'm happy.
I think axing a lot of what was forge world stuff is meant to help with some of the production issues. By reducing the number of products they can make it probably means they can free up workshop space for either more limited time stuff (or making sure it arrives in a timely manner) or put down normal machines.
Lookin at GW growth, at post-covid demand, at 10th and 4th edition changes to simplify and expand availability. It all makes sense. New factory is being built, an office is moved to make room for storage. Etc. etc. These changes take years to manifest.
For the Tau not getting anything between 2015 and 2020, that was because they got an overhaul in 2015. Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors (the ‘Core’ of the army) got an update. They also got the Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, and Tidewall Terrain
2 месяца назад+1
Considering the current economic climate GW managed to improve the stocking situation quite well compared to where they were 1-2 year ago. I really like the "Primaris Tacticus" Idea though. Would also go well with an overall SM points increase and an upgrade in power level.
Yes, yes, yes! I've been saying this for years now. I would be shocked if the "firstborn" marines don't get cut in 11th edition. The implosion and the big butthurt afterwards is quaranteed. The bloat is so real, even outside firstborns, as right now the Marine range especially is confusing as heck. For example: They have Scouts, Infiltrators, Eliminators, Incursors and Reivers. All of those are essentially acting out the same "scout vanguard" role. If was in charge, I would turn all of those into two boxes. One with light armored units and one with heavier armored units and cut/combine the datasheets that don't fit the bill. Much like you guys said with the Tactical Marines + Intercessor -> Tacticus Intercessors. And then I'd over time do the same for all the armies in the game if needed. Luckily this is a mostly a SM focused problem.
I know your channel is a Warhammer channel but from a painting point of view/hobby/kitbashing, you should check out One Page Rules. They have really cool sculpts and is a miniature agnostic system.
We very much try for other things check out polls and take a look back ☺️ but almost every time we do they aren't a success probably why you know us as a Warhammer channel - Cal
That won't increase shelf space for retailers - Cal Quick edit on that one. I feel that may have come off condescending so, let me rephrase. We understand now that GW is trying to expand their factory and so on, however that doesn't change the on the ground realities for the retailers. They have limited space for boxes and such, so there is only so much room even if they expend their storage area - Cal
I have five competitive 40K armies - Primaris (over 12K points), Chaos, Ork, World Eaters, and Black Templars. I only purchased Ufthak Blackhawk this year. 😞
Wait until Sunny learns about the Deathwatch. 😂 Deathwing, Death Company, Deathwatch, or the more obscure chapters like the Death Eagles or the Death Spectres. Maybe even the Deathstrike missile.
I have 5 armies after 3-4 years. And im not talking just enough points (besides Votann… ish). But yes, it is demanding to keep up. And i paint dark angels again non stop this year. -that beeing said, i agree to your thoughts. -think more will be limited to made to order as a default state. But we will see
Imo, Primaris have barely any variation in equipment because that makes the game faster. No longer will a player roll four times for a unit to attack. Faster games means biger games, which means more plastic sold.
Stocking would be solved if they incorporated all option sprees with vehicles, why do you need a separate box for every version of the rhino? You could up the price and include all pieces, gives players more options for their money
The only reason why I'd sta new army is to overcome painting burnout. From painting the same shapes over and over again can bring burnout fast. I've got a 3k point necron army, a 1800 space marine army and a boxset of chaos marines, just to try new things
I've enjoyed pivoting into an ordo hereticus army after getting burned out on painting Night Lords. After hundreds of midnight blue armour plates surrounded by trim, it's fun to paint some red cloth and a particular camouflage scheme I've appropriated for my homebrew inquisitor's personal forces.
An issue with the upgrade sprue isn't even that they're not full unique models (even just having bits you can stick onto a pre-existing model is good enough), so much as there's almost nothing there worth paying attention to. The weapons are just stupidly minour variations of standard weapons, the pauldrons don't have much of anything special about them besides slightly lifted surfaces for symbols, and so on. Modifications that can be done by learning how to mold some green stuff in usually very minour ways. Oftentimes with their models the variation is just too damn slight to justify the purchase.
For me, when I buy gw, the local store only orders 1, and someone usually beats me to it. I even preorder, and it doesn’t come in. However in the end, it’s the prices that finally got me. The other hobbie is video games, they priced me out at 89.99 cad plus tax. RUclips is free..ish.
I mean if you would go for the lore, at least from the 90s, the Space Marines always adapt their forces to the upcoming missions. So the unit composition from the Deathwatch would make the most sense from all the different Space Marines codizes. What GW did, you might ask, yes they have trashed it. But seriously, as you said it, the Primaris would need a bit of equipment variety in their units. On the one side it feels like the game becomes more and more streamlined/simplified. This unit has only bolters, no pistols, no swords, no whatever. On the other hand the special abilities or some synergies are getting more complex like "If you roll a 6 on your hit roll then its autowounding, but only if you have unit XYZ in 6" distance... and only if you rolled a 4+ on that units special ability roll... from behind... with your eyes closed... while you jumped... and said "konstantinopolitanischer Dudelsackpfeifer" 3 times without an error! (at least it feels like this)
I might just not understand Space Marines, but when I look at their store pages I feel like 60% of the line could be summarized to one box of 10 Primaris Marines with bolters and chainswords and then a couple of weapon upgrade sprues. Most of the chapters can also be an upgrade sprue. There are only a few with a theme so unique (Werewolf boys, Vampire angels, old school knights and flying ninjas) that they need their own sculpts. The amount of different armies in 40k could easily be brought down to 20. On their own, all the Imperium armies are a lot of work to fill up with all battlefield roles. It seems like a waste of time. You could roll the few units of heavy Custodes, vehicle buffing Mechanicus and the handful of big knights into the Agents soup army. Chaos should be the CSM Undivided soup army and the four mono Chaos Gods. Role demons into the four God armies and roll Knights into the soup army. Role Tyranids and GSC into one so Tyranids can drop all the tiny aliens with guns and GSC doesn't need their own heavy support and flyer options. Finally make Eldar/Ynnari one army and have detachments for using a single side (craftworld or dark) or a mix.
I have to say I have a lot of available Warhammer stock in my area, but it is largely due to the lack of interest. The Warhammer community has been shrinking mostly because it’s just stagnated. The time investment to start a 40 K or Horus heresy, or age of Sigmar army Versus another game. The continuing bad feeling that comes from a lack of confidence in the rules that constantly change and are only officially available in expensive and frequently outdated even on release books has caused people to shy away and just take up other miniature war game systems. And it feels very odd because the sentiment I and others keep expressing to me is that the the model ranges (at least the updated ones) look great but interacting with everything has just become a difficult.
What is the percentage of people who buy from a store compared to online, I'd have thought the majority of models sold would be online now so shelf space is practically a zero issue?
The primaris bloat is killing 40k you went from having squats having highly detailed 5-10 infantry kits with 4-5 weapon option kits with 10-5 models in them to 20-30 infantry kits lacking in detail primaris single weapon option kits & like 20 lieutenant models the bloat is insane you could remove half the range & still have to many kits they will definitely get the storm cast treatment at some point
They just need to trim the fat on the space marines like I could count on one hand how many times I’ve run into reivers. Why can’t they just add the weapons to an intercessor sprue so you can build them like that instead of having two separate boxes.
Games workshop has two competing incentives with space marines. On one side you want to reduce range bloat as it makes game balance harder to have a lot of models, it also overfills shelves and creates decision paralysis for a lot of people. On the other side Space Marines are the best selling faction so stuff does sell, having specific units rather than general units makes unit roles clearer, it reduces plastic waste since you don’t end up with a load of random bits, it makes it clearer on what is selling / being used, and removing them would cause a huge amount of upset in the player base.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I loved your combining ideas in the video 😁 I think some of the best kits he makes right now can be turned into a few different units.
Irony of battletech. The models from 1988 are still just as legal and valid as the modern ones. But yes when GW does move all firstborn to legends like they did with the assault squad.... its going to score a huge blowback from the community.
Nah man of course not I think the newer eldar are a lot more proportional than the older ones and the Eldar have always been described as lithe. So the more squat models don't fit like I feel the older marines did with that dwarfism they were described as having - Cal
@WhatareyouPaintingnow oh I agree the modern Eldar are certainly taller and lithe. I guess I'm just old enough to have nostalgia for the 90s models due to starting back then as a 12 year old.
Cancelling my culled Stormcast Army plans & re-imaging them as divine & corrupted crusaders for DnD/rpgs - just need to find crusader appropriate helmets. Looks like I need to save money for the Ordo Hereticus box - eldest is on a Sororitas fanaticism bender, meanwhile I have a thing for witchfinders & crazy priests & the youngest will want the robo puppy. Not going to commit to it, but will lookout for a discounted box at some point in the future (FOMO, you have no power here!)
they aren’t going away anytime soon when they have cultivated an addicted (not using that glibly) customer base. They will do what they have done for the last 25 years at least and cycle out the customer base, the people who get priced out/fed up will leave the hobby or move on to another mass market game
Why don't they have a few more generic sheets rather than, particularly for factions like space marines, a near infinite number of sheets. And every 12 months, update the models rather than always trying to create a whole new unit and data sheet that needs to be balanced? I would be keen for new poses or armor combos every 12 months rather than the bad feels of them just putting something into legends and locking out a bunch of your player base.
Something new would be fun like DG jump troops. Marines with big fly wings or something in that direction. Unique Cultists would also be fun but most of my wish list is DG unique things. A DG rhino with caterpillar legs instead of tracks or a unique Helbrute kit.
I sold my eldar, and went full in on my admech. Iv really enjoy buying one kit a month sometimes a bigger kit takes 2 months to buy. I have the money but id rather slowly build my army. Paint what i have see how it plays. And then expand. Me and my buddy are at an escalation league over the last 12 monthes. Were both st 1.3k points and having a blast of ultramarines vs deimos forgeworld. If people slowly bought and enjoyed the casual side. ie. Buying a meta unit for every two rule of cool choice this hobby woulde be more healthy. I wouldnt feel bad if prices drop. New people to play is great. Id still love my models. Blister packs would be awsome. I just imagine a blister pack yo upgrade tech priests
I think GW should just pull the bandaid off and reboot 40k already because we're clearly headed towards another End Times scenario. Then, take Horus Heresy and make it 40k's Old World so people can still have the Grimdark setting of old.
Without having watched the video: No, G'Wullu is "to big to fail". It's like asking "will apple/microsoft implode?". They won't. It would need a serious catastrophe to stop them being the biggest player in the room.
Personally i wouldnt mind seeing them purge a bunch of older Primaris kits into legends because it would be funny to watch the spoiled marine players throw a hissy fit.
I'm new, don't understand like 90% of this, building World Eaters, am I safe? Also thinking of Iron Jaws for AoS. And uhhhhh secretly hoping for Night Lords to exist properly. How cooked am I?
I really wish 40k would just bifurcate and let 40k be complex and include everything and let kill team be, ahem….”streamlined” Bring back comparing WS in hth. Bring by points and war gear. I’m kinda done playing 40k at this point. The game is f’ing stupid
Who buys firstborn tactical marines these days? There are other firstborn veteran units that are cool, but tacticals? Just start to phase out those already. Then upscale the more worthy entries like GW did with terminators and sternguard.
Yes and no? There are literally hundreds of units, and logistics of it are complicated, but only a handful of sets are actually in the rotation due to very intentional "balancing to sell" strategy. Sometimes it wasn't possible to buy intercessors outside the combat patrols and stuff, because shops just didn't buy them as separate sets. And I didn't need a lot of intercessors in the first place - I still can't force myself to paint a 4th 5 men squad, never ever do I have uses for them in my army. And I really think they are going to role tactical squad and intercessors into a single datasheet, and just send devastators to legends. So there's gonna be less bloating in the future hopefully.
you lost me at "if your playing one army you arent going to buy another". Have you actually met the players ? ya dont seem to know the player base at all
I do know the player base, and the economy. That may have been true in the past, that's why I talked about how allies was such a good thing. However, I don't think people have the money to blow anymore. However, I do see you point I hope you see ours - Cal
Is great heard in your comunnity is common have more than an army, in ours and many more I personally I know is hard to find, perhaps is that the reason, we are from diferents groups.
Shelf space is indeed a thing.
Another problem is pricing out the working class American kids that had previously been seduced over from cardflopping. Now the cards are pushing warhammer out of FLGS entirely. Its a far more economical use of play and shelf space for an FLGS to cater toward the TCG crowd. They also make far better margins... GW recently cut the profit margin for their products to retailers and have doubled down on increasing product packaging sizes.
As some who played Magic the Gathering I 100% hear you. Cards are just as expensive as Warhammer if you want to play competitively but those hits are a lot smaller. So you don't have to put more money in big hits - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnownot to mention the casuals can just not buy as much and play for a lot less.
@@timunderbakke8756 Yeah a packet or two of magic cards is still SOME money coming in - Cal
But there is a very important factor that cards don't have. The hobby itself of building and painting your army, is not all about playing.
@@Payomeke Painting for sure but there is 100% a hobby build around deck building, it is a deep deep dive. It may not be constructing models like we do but it a massive sub hobby as big as conversion is perhaps bigger in Warhammer - Cal
I hadn't considered the retailer issue of stocking a faction that never really gets updated. It would disincentivise keeping older model lines around, especially when the flashy new space marines are right next to them!
Well we watched a video and this is what someone suggested this is what caused the end of the old world, that super fans had nothing to buy for years at a time. I think it was Olden Golden? Or something like that... Olden Demon I think that was his name - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowI can confirm that lack of content directly contributes to the death of my first miniature game, x-wing. There were other problems to be sure, but one of the big issues was half the “new” content coming out was of no use to the experienced player who already had so much stuff and definitely didn’t need yet another reprint to the new edition.
@@timunderbakke8756 Thanks for the feedback and we had a gut feeling on that one - Cal
Not receiving updates is a functional death spiral for factions in games like these, and GW has this problem in spades. No updates means sales drop off as old players have what they want and new players tend not to like older styles. Drop in sales means less retail space and less investment by GW which only compounds the issue.
GW has such a hyper focus on pushing out as much of their "safe" options as possible that it becomes an active detriment to everything else. Space marines are the obvious example of this - they'll spit out a dozen new space marine models yet factions of the Dark Eldar or the LoV are missing half their rosters. Another worse, yet rarely discussed, example would be the Stormcast in AoS. They've been around for a fraction of the time, yet their range has over 100 models it - all while multiple factions struggle to break a total of 20 models in their respective ranges.
this is why i stopped playing harlequins.i travel a lot for work.after i've heard half of europe say "sorry,we don't have any quins,is there something else you'd like" i just switched to blood angels
When it comes to space marines, i think there's a massive bloat issue with the primaris marines
Even ignoring the 30 models of Primaris Lieutenants. They turned what was a single Tactical and Devastator squads into a dozen of single-weapon on the entire squads that are literally the same models just with different weapons.
Might just be me, but when it comes to them squatting models, like they will with the Firstborn one day, the issue isn't not being able to use them in the game, but not being able to buy them, to assemble, to paint, etc.
There are a lot of models i wanted to buy just to have them, just for GW to run out of stock and just never restock them until they went went 'whoops into legends it goes and we're no longer gonna sell them'
"They turned what was a single Tactical and Devastator squads into a dozen of single-weapon on the entire squads" man's not wrong - Cal
Hell, with 30K you have the advantage that building the ten man special weapon squads has you buy a tactical marine squad, then a smaller special weapon kit. You could do the same with the primaris special weapon squads, more than likely.
The more specialist squads there are, each with their own kit, the more you have to buy.
The guy who runs my local store loves Horus Heresy because of shelf space and upgrades. You can build so many of the units out of the basic tactical squad and either an upgrade pack or printed bits. And it's not just that upgrades take less space than kits; he knows he's going to constantly sell the tactical boxes. And with games like Bloodbowl, it avoids people only buying a single army. A team isn't a big commitment, so they're Bloodbowl players instead of Ork or Space Marine players. So he loves that, too. I kind of feel like specialist games are healthier than 40k and AOS in most ways now. Wish I knew why they get run so differently.
Re: Marines. I'd be shocked if we don't end up with a full range of firstborn-style armor marines for Horus Heresy. They'd get double mileage out of merging firstborn and Primaris units!
How strange... there was something similar that happened here for a time, almost as if those things work - Cal
they should trim it back to the 2007 line and use the same 4th ed rules. 40k fixed overnight.
Biggest issue for GW is the pricing. The insane pricing strategy has closed the Warhammer door on anyone without significant extra income and time. A box of the current standard Space Marines is over $60 - a price that used to be reserved for Land Raiders and other premier model kits. Inflation eventually gets us all, but those prices were from only 10 years ago. Right now, a Land Raider Crusader costs $115 - an increase of almost 92% over its introductory price of the original 2000 model which was only $60 and has only received upgrade sprues in the intervening 24 years.
Well... you're not wrong - Cal
I find that it's a lot more than mere high pricing for GW. They are predatory and soulless when it comes to the retail side of things. Constant updates to the lexicon, so you have to buy new ones. Super high prices for everything. Eliminating armies for no reason, etc...
I boycott GW, and my life has not suffered in the slightest.
The range bloat is a real problem. HQ, Elite, Troops and all that, every army should have three to four choices for each selection. Marines should be one codex, maybe with a single unique HQ and special unit for chapter flair.
I miss the day back in 3rd or 4th ed where you have exactly that. Fill Troops with Tactical Squads. Then fast attack, you have Assault Marines or Land Speeders. Then for Heavy Support you have Devastators, Predator Tanks or a Land Raider. Etc.
Now I open up a modern codex and I am thrown into a soup of different units, many of which fill the same role and overlap so much it's obvious they just wanna sell new stuff, game design be damned.
thre range bloat i can agree on, multiple kits that are similiar with some changes (like different loadout). the rest, absolutely not, let me explain. ruleswise, limiting the amount of options down to those numbers in every selection of units is impossible for a lot of the factions. model wise, you cant do it either (at least not for every faction in the game).
the one thing that could be done is to roll together all kits that are similiar (faction generic kits mainly, like generic space marine kits (with "primaris" being the main culprit)), as it would cut down on near identical kits and consolidate them into fewer but slightly larger kits (but it would most likely lead to another price hike, which the playerbase do not want). this would free up SOME shelfspace for the stores, that could be used to hold more items from other ranges.
Marines ARE already one codex (as of 9th ed.), with supplements for each chapter that has a warranted need for it. and no, do not limit it to a single HQ and special unit for chapter flair. keep it as is. the chapters get their flare from their unique rules and decked out range of themed units such as Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templars, their flare comes from their unique and thematic ranges and their unique ruleset. remove that flare and you might just as well remove subfactions entirely.
What are they supposed to do though? It seems that it's release or die, if new models aren't coming out that they can sell it's kinda hard to do business. Especially for old veterans it's really hard to justify just getting another unit of the squad that they already have.
That being said, as of right now, factions like Votann and Drukhari are still small enough to work with that kind of idea of what an army is supposed to be (with which I agree with by the way), fingers crossed.
@@LordDiabetusIIIcycling in new posed model kits has worked for a few other games. Or have the base options, and release cycling upgrade kit sets, that way the core boxes will always be useful - like Heresy.
Otherwise, keep the models that used to exist and swap what model loadouts can go into what squads, and put a new combo box of those alongside that swap with new looks or armor styles but allows old players to still use their old stuff if they need to be. I dont think 100 sheets in SM is healthy, but since firstborn needs to go, we have a solid chance to start fresh.
@@LordDiabetusIIIhype cycle isnt sustainable and convincing themselves that it is is a self psy-op. All it is is a manipulative sales tactic for short term profit ranges of maybe a few weeks or a month, while ignoring yearly numbers. Look how many businesses dont even last 3 years any more because theyre creating an insanely blown out product cycle and they dont even have time to QA/R&D and just ship DoA product putting all their money into the marketing? They spend and lose all their money on production cycling praying somehow theyll be able to recoup costs, then the initial hype ends and they level out on sales and instead of keeping that product as a reliable income source over time, they change everything up and throw away reliable income
Instead of making primaris lieutenant number 83, they could actually give Votann and World Eaters a model range
But this is all their fault...
They used to only make a certain amount of kits, and if you wanted to do extra stuff, they PAID EMPLOYEES who wrote and created rules and showed you ways to convert EXISTING model lines into the new units. They did not like this, so they wanted to SELL US MORE.
THEY stopped providing modeling guides. THEY stopped providing terrain building guides. THEY started box locking their unit kits.
THEY stopped encouraging kitbashing and scratchbuilding and now they are suffering for expanding far too much.
Well your not wrong on they want to sell more and you're 100% on they have discouraged kitbashing... I am not sure all their fault but I certainly see you point as we have decried the stuff about kitbashing - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Wasn't disagreeing, just venting really. Their own choices will and have negatively hurt all of us in the long run.
@@alexknudsen2759 You are all G, sorry if I came off too heavy handed, just trying to have a back and forth. We try to reply to as many people as we can especially people who have good points like you do, even if we don't agree with those points - Cal
Personally I think there are too many space marines. What they need to do which you touched on is have upgrade kits. Sell the basic bland marines but have the details be sold separately and have them be cheap extra you can buy for like pocket change. You can even do thar for every other faction too. It could even encourage custom army building by letting me get a blank model then green stuff mold my own insignia and bits.
Also keep up with the kill team as a cheaper warhammer but have the models be usable as official proxy for actual warhammer40k models.
You are speaking my language brother man - Cal
Imo this is one of the biggest reasons we didn't need Primaris Marines.
By 2017 the loyalist SM range was close to completion, ignoring a few characters here and there. Slowly rescaling the Marine range for a 30mm base was all that really needed to happen.
As a marine player, they need to re-evaluate and condense kits.
Hellblasters can't justify being a single kit at this point.
Same with internus marines
The boxes need to be merged to save shelf space as even the extra bits for the plasma incinerators don't have rules now
They need to save shelf and storage space
Feel like they need some more upgrade sprues for literally every faction. There’s one now for CSM- Night Lords. People LOVE those models. Do the same for everyone.
Weren’t people just getting mad about marines just being upgrade sprews when they showed off death company a week ago?
Good talk. Range is bloated in some regards but I believe the community is getting really tired of paying for a new codex every 3ish years and getting a single new model or updated model. Everything feels very stagnant right now.
Yep we have a video on that issue exactly called the end of editions, we hope you check out and if you do let us know what you think of it - Cal
How much of the Adeptus Mechanicus codex is in the new rules update compared to the original codex?
Ye, this is worse than the price.
And the price of a codex these days - just shy of $100 Australian for a book that will be replaced in 3 or so years (unless the new edition does an index reset, in which case it's even less time) AND the rules will be Errata-ed, FAQ-ed and Dataslate-ed in a couple of months.
The problem is that marines take up half the shelf space. If the number of marines where reduced you could sell more products.
Maybe or just not sell stuff - Cal
As a Tau & Aeldari player it is kind of painful. I've had to admit that 40K just feels like "the Space Marine game" now. I'm playing AoS for the most part.
Former Necron player here, at least we get a faction refresh every decade or so 😂
Totally fair feeling that way. I hope Age of Sigmar is good to you - Cal
Thank you for mentioning "The Great Purge" in AoS. I was about to start buying minis when that happened. Then I heard about GW doing it before with the transition from Fantasy to AoS. Now I feel a strange pressure to only buy the newest sculpts even though I recognize it doesn't really matter unless I'm going to play in tournaments.
Ironically this just creates a self fulfilling prophecy where they cancel the things that aren’t selling, and they’re not selling because of fear they will be axed
I think it was one of Games-Workshops most foolish decisions. It had long time advocates turn against them and when your 'priests' turn against you, you're in trouble - Cal
buying the "Newest sculpts" isn't even safe, as some of the stormcast eternals that got retired were less than 5 years old...
To be honest, that's gonna be a great thing for people just interesting in painting, not play, because most of those armies will be dumped at a great discount on ebay
Another problem GW have invented for themselves are the multipart but monopose intertwined miniatures just so that they could stop third party companies making bits; which is now utterly redundant because people are simply making 3D prints, some of which are just straight rips of GW models. But you can't make a unique mini using a standard base model with a special sprue of specific pieces or kitbased and converted because these new fiddly models won't allow it.
Yeah... We have talked about those things before - Cal
This was especially weird for Necromunda.
Definitely a retailer's dilemma, especially if you're producing your own goods, and it is hard to communicate it to someone who has never had to face it.
Also, you should have ended with, "keep those deathbrushes wet". 😂
Deathbrushes 🧐 hmmm 🤔 yes sounds marketable - Cal
I honestly believe there are too many factions. A lot of resources are pumped into releases that they can't back up, such as with the Leagues of Votann. Half and Army and barely any Lore. If the purpose of the Tau was to capitalise on the asian market/ interests, I understand that. The World Eaters released at the end of 9th with fully-fledged Lore and love behind them, Leagues of Votann and possible brand new armies in the future will just add bloat and lesser the potential to sell GW's existing range due to an even longer wait for models and codex's. Plus a lack of understanding of untapped markets.
AYE! It's the Amber King we like your stuff man hit us up if you ever want to collab.
I really like the Votann and their addition, but you're not wrong when it comes to their lack of lore. But despite my enjoyment of them... You may be right which doesn't make me happy. However! I am super happy to see you here man, you have an awesome week - Cal
Hell, even the World Eaters didn't get an impressive range, compared to say the Death Guard. They really need to focus on the well established factions and making them all enjoyable to play.
Honestly I only really play the video games and listen/read lore, and a friend recently got me into Kill Team. I hope it gets more popular because its sooo much more doable for me. Hopefully they move that way more for my sake! Hope it doesn't die...
Kill team is a great gateway. I find the best way to get into bighammer is with printing or Chinaman. But frankly, for a lot of people it's not even about price, time investment is a big deal
We like Killteam too, we have painted, ALOT of it - Cal
@@kraftyevan Yea I'm just a chronic hobbiest and love the wh40k lore. But I won't even play video games that are too much of a time investment. Plus having multiple small teams of diff factions seems more interesting to me than investing in an insanely huge army. Also I can def see myself spending a few hours at my LGS on a weekend playing a few rounds of killteam rather than a whole day playing a full big hammer game.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yea honestly I play a lot of Warhammer Combat Cards, and told my friend I'd be interested in trying wh40k tabletop but just seemed like too much for me. He then told me about Killteam and most of my fav cards in WCC come in Killteam sets! So I'm even more committed to the idea now lol
I just love how you build up from one banter to another, I do enjoy your videos and I like the chill format just be fun and have fun and you will provide more fun for your viewers.
Cheers!
Glad to hear it we will do this more often then because we sometimes don't know what will get us success. Thank you - Cal
Marines - I’d love it if space marines got less options and more upgrade sprues to customize them. I am sick of so many space marine players who treat their subfaction as a whole unique army worthy of a full range all to itself (though as a Black Templar, I admit my primaris crusaders are mighty fine looking).
Firstborn can go away just by bringing a new scaled up tactical squad - make it fit with the existing intercessors and I’d buy multiples just to outfit my old intercessors with heavy weapon options they’re missing
I've been a big supporter of this idea for years. The different legions don't deserve to be their own factions when 95% of their ranges (if they're lucky) are identical to each other. Functionally, you could just do one big marine codex with each legion just getting its own subfaction ruleset within the book.
@@spnked9516the hilarious thing is that’s basically what we have in 10th and the fanboys are mewling over the fact there’s no special rule for chapter such and such.
In terms of the game balance, I think the obvious answer is “armies with unique minis must play a detachment associated with them” so you don’t have “space marines but better” happening with things like Dark Angels or Templars.
I’d even be ok if the 4 remaining marine subfactions with unique units (not just a character) got ripped out of the codex and got their standalone book with access to only a handful of core marine units - think like the monogod chaos codexes who have access to their unique things plus some very basic vanilla chaos. So we’d have codex blood angels and the only things they could take were in the book, not “hey the whole massive range AND these extras”
I miss Marines being Marines. My first army was Blood Angel. Tycho and Dante were cool and rare, but now people complain that the assault veterans don't have full-sized wings. I miss the Blood Angels, and Marines in general, still being relatively normal.
The constant churn of new models and discarding of old ones is very clearly a signal that their strategy is to squeeze as much money as they can out of existing customers (the whales), at the expense of creating an enjoyable game for cultivating the long tail.
40k built an hobby and business selling tactical squads. It worked for decades.
I think making new models isn't bad, but I think the pace and how they are made is bad. So just how they are on the sprue more variety more different stuff: Fantastic. Less intuitive design harder to build models: Suck. we would have killed for the stuff we can get today, except we would have quit on mass if they made it the way they do today
I totally agree that make it for the long term not the short gain - Cal
People joke about 40k getting hit with its own "End Times" event, but it'll actually be a thing that happens a lot sooner than they realize. GW has already shifted 40ks focus away from being a setting and towards being a narrative, which naturally means it's moving towards an inevitable end point (ie Primarch returning and the Emperor's "ascending"). This is push along by questionable or otherwise bad corporate decisions on the part of GW (price hikes, range bloat, lack of updates for certain factions, fomo tactics, supply, etc etc) which will eat away at sales as they get worse (pricing in particular is reaching a danger point - about $90-$100 per 10 baseline infantry is roughly the consumer breaking point).
GW will use the narrative as an excuse to wipe the board clean and replace their existing property with one that's more "open" and "corporate safe". Anything that isn't carried over will be scrapped entirely or sold to consumers again in an updated but much less defined manner (see Fyreslayers, DoK, etc etc in AoS).
You are also located in Australia. The hobby wastelands. So that's definitely a factor
Its amazing how much could have been avoided if they had the Primaris just a regular range update, like any other army would get. When your fraction is so painfully homogenous, you don't need entirely different sculpts for random loadouts and maybe all those filthy non-marine fractions might get a release once in a century.
I've been playing Mordheim semi-regularly. It's a Games Workshop game that's been discontinued since 2004 and is entirely fan supported. My buddies and I use 90% 3d printed or 3rd party models, we make our own terrain and we use the fan-made rules expansions. We also make our own rules for our cool terrain because we feel like it.
Yesterday we played Battlefleet Gothic. Its been discontinued 2014. We used 25 year old models which are literally older than my opponent and today we spent an hour browsing stl files for printing and discussing the rules with other fans on discord.
Lads, lasses, I think wargaming will be alright even if GW "implodes", "explodes" or just fades away. Because the white-bearded grumblers will keep the games alive.
I admit that it sure would suck not being able to have unreasonable price hikes, questionable lore and underwhelming miniature releases to disappoint us in the future, but I think we will cope without those things as our 3d printers work and we continue to make our own terrain.
You mentioned TSR, you know that people still play Ad&d 2nd eddition out there. And do you wanna know something sad about that?
I feel closer to those old grognards than to the new crop of "players".
They've got the perfect opportunity to slot in special weapons into the basic intercessor squad. It's called Kill Team. In fact it's such an easy solution, I'm shocked they haven't done it already, made a Kill Team out of intercessors where they throw in a sprue with tons of new options for them to use.
They've already done that with Chaos Space Marines, and CSM already had a lot of options.
Actually yeah that's a great way of doing it! - Cal
I really enjoyed the banter between you two this time around.
Well this is us much more causal usually we have a more professional tone as we are teaching - Cal
Single correction. GW is a miniature making company. They are not a games company. The games support the sale of the miniatures, which are what pay their bills. Not the other way around.
Good video. I completely agree with all of it.
My unpopular opinion is that I'm ok with the older models going 😂
Glad our points hit home - Cal
Age of Sigmar is doing really well. Maybe it will become the main game.
However other channels claim that Skaventide's sales flopped.
Thank you for including the Copyrighticus bit
Glad you enjoyed it 😊 - Cal
I really wish they would make a Primaris Tactical Squad and Devastator Squad. The difference would be 5 man tactical squads. This would let them load up in an impulsor, and double the amount of special weapons for 5 man teams. I have 5 old tactical squads, and would be happy to get some new ones. Its one of the reasons I want to start a chaos army. The Legionnaire get this, but have to still use a Rhino. I don't have any interest in Intercessors.
I would say price is perhaps the most pressing issue for most - as late as today I checked out the shelf at my local dealer and the prices were absolutely insane - a box I looked at - big and heavy, not gonna lie - cost so much I thought that in order to afford it, one would have to take out a second mortgage on the house. And that is not viable in the long run, especially not for younger people who will seldom be able to afford the models, but also not for older, who have bills to pay. Games are at the bottom line a luxury.
There was a serious culling of Space Marine "Firstborn" datasheets and kits with the roll out of the 10th edition Space Marine Codex. While the datasheets exist in Legends, most players regard the units as no longer viable. In many ways Horus Heresy feels like it should be the new home for die hard First Born Space Marine players. With no ongoing support to keep the older kits balanced in the current 40K game they will see less play. One Page Rules may also be an option for these Space Marine players who want to use their older models.
At this point the Space Marines maintain the bloat through GW regularly adding new models to the range because Space Marines sell. I have to wonder how stronger support for the other factions would help sales. At this point it feels as though GW is in a cycle of no sales = no new models = no sales. The question is how much to support each faction to optimize return on development costs.
I think Kill Team allows GW to test the waters with new kits. They can gauge demand with a smaller investment in design time.
i find it so interesting hearing from people in other countries about 40k, im in the uk and looking at gw website the majority of 40k is in stock like for example the dark angels only have 4 thing out of stock and 2 of those are upgrade sprues. also when talking about money too uriel being 67 aud there, is mad uriel is £26 here and i can get a discount at a 3rd party for most models.
Yeah I'm in the US and they constantly have stuff out of stock online for weeks, sometimes months, at a time. Worse, if you ask to get notified when something is back in stock online they only email you if it goes back in stock on the UK website.
We can literally buy retail from there and get it sent here via post and it's still cheaper... - Cal
Speaking of stock issues, there was a time span of literal years you could not buy War Dogs for a chaos knight army. Seriously, between their initial release in 9th and now there was a gap of over 2 years where you just couldn’t get them unless you were right in the money when a retailer announced they’re back in stock - off the online shelf in mere minutes
To be the doomsayer here, I DO think GW know the implosion is coming (plus 3d print, 3rd party models, etc) and they don't actually care. They are desperate to get 40k to mainstream consciousness (and if Fantasy can do that too, the better) through movies, series and videogames, so that the IP have a high value so they can sell it off to a chump company who buys the IP, models and all, without understanding a single thing about the miniature game and it will tank in a few years but the owners who sold the company already ran off with the billions of dollars.
I think you are right with the idea of them wanting to go mainstream... however I think that 3D printing thing isn't hurting them as much, but we will probably need to do a full video on that to articulate our thoughts - Cal
someone at least at GW has notice this, just look at all those guard vehicles that used to come in different boxes just getting put into one, like the baneblade variants and that upgrade sprue and the leman russes. And soon possibly all the chimera hulls.
GW certainly needs to stop giving it's fanbase minis that arguably won't sell well, they need to listen to us as consumers on what we want, because these days, what's the point of buying from GW? These days (If you can afford it) it's better to just buy a 3d printer and create minis from STLs rather than fork up hiked up prices, sure it'll be really expensive in the short term, but it would be cheaper in the long run.
GW hasn't really been making the best financial decisions in the past year or two, so the possibility of them heading towards an implosion isn't surprising.
GW is targetting the wide part of the funnel. People who 3d print or have access to 3d printers belong to the more narrow part of the funnel and demographically are a minority, which isnt GW's target market. Plus it the juice isnt worth the squeeze.
From a business pov, it makes sense to simply ignore us 3d printers cuz they aint gonna make much money outta us
WOW😅 Infernus Squad is 100 Dollar's
Its 42 Euro in Germany
Correct, but we don't even have it the worst NZ is worse than us but I think we are the cannery in the coal mine because we aren't as far ahead of you in pricing as you may think - Cal
100 Australian Dollars are 60€.
Your points are valid & well-articulated. I have had little dealing with GW since the end of Warhammer Fantasy & I have seen how smaller hobby shops struggle with shelf space & would often remove other game systems (Some of which are better then 40k IMO) just to have extra shelf space the GW flavor of the month in the hopes that it will turn a quick profit.
I think the hopes of turning a quick profit is the problem with the whole industry, and not just this one. But hobbies are recession proof but, only if you have loyalty and I fear that they are spending their loyalty - Cal
I know this isn't the world, l know we aren't GW main market etc but localy, with people making 500-550$ a month with a good job, a 3d printer or buying models from someone with one is the prefared way to play. Also regarding "it will stick around" my army us 6 years old , as models in it are 6 years old. GW still phased it out.
I don't know about you but we NEED a new Lt model
I know... we don't ha ha ha ha - Cal
Price rises are one thing, but customers are getting bitten on both sides by shrinking package deals. People are forced in one direction, and thats FOMO boxes. Competition is so high for these boxes and it's very anti-consumer. It's not fun and I think it's reckless. It courts resentment from the community.
I don’t mind finecast, lots of guard models are still in metal. They do frequently make new models for guard though but it’s funny that some that are still used never got updated to fine cast, much less plastic.
I think so many of the old metal sculpts were just so good. I do wish that they got some plastic but, well all the points we pointed out in this episode... - Cal
"Give the Intercessors special weapons"
I've been making some custom rules and units in 9th edition for my friends and I, and reducing the bloat in the Space Marines codex by merging all the Firstborn and Primaris marines together was literally the first thing I did lmao
I merged Tactical Squads and Intercessors into 'Tactical Intercessors'; they're literally just Intercessors with access to Special and Heavy weapons
How does anyone buy from the GW website when there is no international shipping? Most of us really have 2 options. eBay and Amazon. Otherwise, get a 3d printer.
I can’t ever find stuff on their newish website…
I don't even touch ebay, if anything it's a way to pay more fore even less... Worse than GW themselves, which is I why I stick to tiny retro mini seller sites and a couple of recasters for hard to get old forgeworld models. Plus it's cheap as fuck, so I'm happy.
In Texas, the 2 local 3rd party FLGS stopped recieving the general shipping order and have stuck to ordering on a customer to customer basis
...and thats why you need to go back to the Old World!
Kickin' like the old school like an old fool - Cal
Ten points if you get that reference - Cal
Products would sell if GW sold them at an actual reasonable price, the shelf space problem is their fault
I think axing a lot of what was forge world stuff is meant to help with some of the production issues. By reducing the number of products they can make it probably means they can free up workshop space for either more limited time stuff (or making sure it arrives in a timely manner) or put down normal machines.
Lookin at GW growth, at post-covid demand, at 10th and 4th edition changes to simplify and expand availability. It all makes sense. New factory is being built, an office is moved to make room for storage. Etc. etc. These changes take years to manifest.
For the Tau not getting anything between 2015 and 2020, that was because they got an overhaul in 2015. Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors (the ‘Core’ of the army) got an update. They also got the Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, and Tidewall Terrain
Considering the current economic climate GW managed to improve the stocking situation quite well compared to where they were 1-2 year ago.
I really like the "Primaris Tacticus" Idea though. Would also go well with an overall SM points increase and an upgrade in power level.
I am glad you like it I hope other people do too - Cal
Yes, yes, yes! I've been saying this for years now. I would be shocked if the "firstborn" marines don't get cut in 11th edition. The implosion and the big butthurt afterwards is quaranteed.
The bloat is so real, even outside firstborns, as right now the Marine range especially is confusing as heck. For example: They have Scouts, Infiltrators, Eliminators, Incursors and Reivers. All of those are essentially acting out the same "scout vanguard" role.
If was in charge, I would turn all of those into two boxes. One with light armored units and one with heavier armored units and cut/combine the datasheets that don't fit the bill.
Much like you guys said with the Tactical Marines + Intercessor -> Tacticus Intercessors.
And then I'd over time do the same for all the armies in the game if needed. Luckily this is a mostly a SM focused problem.
What is that site you used to see when models were released? I can’t find it… It seems extremely useful.
lexicanum - Cal
I know your channel is a Warhammer channel but from a painting point of view/hobby/kitbashing, you should check out One Page Rules. They have really cool sculpts and is a miniature agnostic system.
We very much try for other things check out polls and take a look back ☺️ but almost every time we do they aren't a success probably why you know us as a Warhammer channel - Cal
Do think expanding production and storige space would fix this issue? Because is something GW try to do right now.
That won't increase shelf space for retailers - Cal
Quick edit on that one. I feel that may have come off condescending so, let me rephrase. We understand now that GW is trying to expand their factory and so on, however that doesn't change the on the ground realities for the retailers. They have limited space for boxes and such, so there is only so much room even if they expend their storage area - Cal
I have five competitive 40K armies - Primaris (over 12K points), Chaos, Ork, World Eaters, and Black Templars. I only purchased Ufthak Blackhawk this year. 😞
This was nice. Do more.
Thanks we have votes every week on what we are doing - Cal
Wait until Sunny learns about the Deathwatch. 😂
Deathwing, Death Company, Deathwatch, or the more obscure chapters like the Death Eagles or the Death Spectres. Maybe even the Deathstrike missile.
👀 ~Sunny
I have 5 armies after 3-4 years. And im not talking just enough points (besides Votann… ish). But yes, it is demanding to keep up. And i paint dark angels again non stop this year.
-that beeing said, i agree to your thoughts.
-think more will be limited to made to order as a default state. But we will see
Imo, Primaris have barely any variation in equipment because that makes the game faster. No longer will a player roll four times for a unit to attack.
Faster games means biger games, which means more plastic sold.
Stocking would be solved if they incorporated all option sprees with vehicles, why do you need a separate box for every version of the rhino? You could up the price and include all pieces, gives players more options for their money
The only reason why I'd sta new army is to overcome painting burnout. From painting the same shapes over and over again can bring burnout fast. I've got a 3k point necron army, a 1800 space marine army and a boxset of chaos marines, just to try new things
I've enjoyed pivoting into an ordo hereticus army after getting burned out on painting Night Lords. After hundreds of midnight blue armour plates surrounded by trim, it's fun to paint some red cloth and a particular camouflage scheme I've appropriated for my homebrew inquisitor's personal forces.
An issue with the upgrade sprue isn't even that they're not full unique models (even just having bits you can stick onto a pre-existing model is good enough), so much as there's almost nothing there worth paying attention to. The weapons are just stupidly minour variations of standard weapons, the pauldrons don't have much of anything special about them besides slightly lifted surfaces for symbols, and so on. Modifications that can be done by learning how to mold some green stuff in usually very minour ways. Oftentimes with their models the variation is just too damn slight to justify the purchase.
For me, when I buy gw, the local store only orders 1, and someone usually beats me to it. I even preorder, and it doesn’t come in. However in the end, it’s the prices that finally got me. The other hobbie is video games, they priced me out at 89.99 cad plus tax. RUclips is free..ish.
I mean if you would go for the lore, at least from the 90s, the Space Marines always adapt their forces to the upcoming missions. So the unit composition from the Deathwatch would make the most sense from all the different Space Marines codizes. What GW did, you might ask, yes they have trashed it.
But seriously, as you said it, the Primaris would need a bit of equipment variety in their units. On the one side it feels like the game becomes more and more streamlined/simplified. This unit has only bolters, no pistols, no swords, no whatever. On the other hand the special abilities or some synergies are getting more complex like "If you roll a 6 on your hit roll then its autowounding, but only if you have unit XYZ in 6" distance... and only if you rolled a 4+ on that units special ability roll... from behind... with your eyes closed... while you jumped... and said "konstantinopolitanischer Dudelsackpfeifer" 3 times without an error! (at least it feels like this)
I might just not understand Space Marines, but when I look at their store pages I feel like 60% of the line could be summarized to one box of 10 Primaris Marines with bolters and chainswords and then a couple of weapon upgrade sprues. Most of the chapters can also be an upgrade sprue. There are only a few with a theme so unique (Werewolf boys, Vampire angels, old school knights and flying ninjas) that they need their own sculpts.
The amount of different armies in 40k could easily be brought down to 20. On their own, all the Imperium armies are a lot of work to fill up with all battlefield roles. It seems like a waste of time. You could roll the few units of heavy Custodes, vehicle buffing Mechanicus and the handful of big knights into the Agents soup army.
Chaos should be the CSM Undivided soup army and the four mono Chaos Gods. Role demons into the four God armies and roll Knights into the soup army.
Role Tyranids and GSC into one so Tyranids can drop all the tiny aliens with guns and GSC doesn't need their own heavy support and flyer options. Finally make Eldar/Ynnari one army and have detachments for using a single side (craftworld or dark) or a mix.
Would someone be so kind to tell me the name of the website on 2:42 where the model's release date is showing...? Thank you :)
Lexicanum search for that and like Eldar model release and it should be the first one to come up - Cal
I have to say I have a lot of available Warhammer stock in my area, but it is largely due to the lack of interest. The Warhammer community has been shrinking mostly because it’s just stagnated. The time investment to start a 40 K or Horus heresy, or age of Sigmar army Versus another game. The continuing bad feeling that comes from a lack of confidence in the rules that constantly change and are only officially available in expensive and frequently outdated even on release books has caused people to shy away and just take up other miniature war game systems. And it feels very odd because the sentiment I and others keep expressing to me is that the the model ranges (at least the updated ones) look great but interacting with everything has just become a difficult.
What is the percentage of people who buy from a store compared to online, I'd have thought the majority of models sold would be online now so shelf space is practically a zero issue?
The primaris bloat is killing 40k you went from having squats having highly detailed 5-10 infantry kits with 4-5 weapon option kits with 10-5 models in them to 20-30 infantry kits lacking in detail primaris single weapon option kits & like 20 lieutenant models the bloat is insane you could remove half the range & still have to many kits they will definitely get the storm cast treatment at some point
They just need to trim the fat on the space marines like I could count on one hand how many times I’ve run into reivers. Why can’t they just add the weapons to an intercessor sprue so you can build them like that instead of having two separate boxes.
Games workshop has two competing incentives with space marines. On one side you want to reduce range bloat as it makes game balance harder to have a lot of models, it also overfills shelves and creates decision paralysis for a lot of people.
On the other side Space Marines are the best selling faction so stuff does sell, having specific units rather than general units makes unit roles clearer, it reduces plastic waste since you don’t end up with a load of random bits, it makes it clearer on what is selling / being used, and removing them would cause a huge amount of upset in the player base.
Yep, I would say that is a lot of what we said too - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I loved your combining ideas in the video 😁 I think some of the best kits he makes right now can be turned into a few different units.
@@LordOffal Yeah I hope we see something like it, I think it would work very well - Cal
Irony of battletech. The models from 1988 are still just as legal and valid as the modern ones.
But yes when GW does move all firstborn to legends like they did with the assault squad.... its going to score a huge blowback from the community.
I don't think you are wrong which is why I said just give it to them - Cal
Even GW don't have the space in their stores to stock everything they produce.
Not wrong - Cal
Is it bad I still prefer the older 90s Eldar?
Nah man of course not I think the newer eldar are a lot more proportional than the older ones and the Eldar have always been described as lithe. So the more squat models don't fit like I feel the older marines did with that dwarfism they were described as having - Cal
@WhatareyouPaintingnow oh I agree the modern Eldar are certainly taller and lithe. I guess I'm just old enough to have nostalgia for the 90s models due to starting back then as a 12 year old.
@@edwardclay7551 Totally get ya - Cal
Cancelling my culled Stormcast Army plans & re-imaging them as divine & corrupted crusaders for DnD/rpgs - just need to find crusader appropriate helmets.
Looks like I need to save money for the Ordo Hereticus box - eldest is on a Sororitas fanaticism bender, meanwhile I have a thing for witchfinders & crazy priests & the youngest will want the robo puppy. Not going to commit to it, but will lookout for a discounted box at some point in the future (FOMO, you have no power here!)
they aren’t going away anytime soon when they have cultivated an addicted (not using that glibly) customer base. They will do what they have done for the last 25 years at least and cycle out the customer base, the people who get priced out/fed up will leave the hobby or move on to another mass market game
I live in a past I only barely witnessed, retro models, retro rules!
Why don't they have a few more generic sheets rather than, particularly for factions like space marines, a near infinite number of sheets. And every 12 months, update the models rather than always trying to create a whole new unit and data sheet that needs to be balanced? I would be keen for new poses or armor combos every 12 months rather than the bad feels of them just putting something into legends and locking out a bunch of your player base.
Still waiting for new death guard box set and models
Something new would be fun like DG jump troops. Marines with big fly wings or something in that direction. Unique Cultists would also be fun but most of my wish list is DG unique things. A DG rhino with caterpillar legs instead of tracks or a unique Helbrute kit.
Death Guard got a huge overhaul only two editions ago
@@richardcahill1234 tell me when was 2 edition ago
@@KrullMaestaren DG helbrute is currently unplayable as much I like the model the stats are horrid hope GW do something about it soon
I sold my eldar, and went full in on my admech. Iv really enjoy buying one kit a month sometimes a bigger kit takes 2 months to buy. I have the money but id rather slowly build my army. Paint what i have see how it plays. And then expand. Me and my buddy are at an escalation league over the last 12 monthes. Were both st 1.3k points and having a blast of ultramarines vs deimos forgeworld.
If people slowly bought and enjoyed the casual side. ie. Buying a meta unit for every two rule of cool choice this hobby woulde be more healthy.
I wouldnt feel bad if prices drop. New people to play is great. Id still love my models. Blister packs would be awsome. I just imagine a blister pack yo upgrade tech priests
I have heard escalation is a great way to play - Cal
I think GW should just pull the bandaid off and reboot 40k already because we're clearly headed towards another End Times scenario. Then, take Horus Heresy and make it 40k's Old World so people can still have the Grimdark setting of old.
Burden of choice. When you have too many options you just don't make a choice
Yep analysis paralysis - Cal
Imagine shilling for a huge corporation who price hikes indefinitely and these fools get their back saying " they're a business" totally bonkers.
Without having watched the video: No, G'Wullu is "to big to fail". It's like asking "will apple/microsoft implode?". They won't. It would need a serious catastrophe to stop them being the biggest player in the room.
ich can get a hold of everything with my printer
Last thing I bought from GW was Blackstone Fortress in 2019 or something. After I discovered Infinity I realised how badly designed GW war games are.
1 at 17:30 I had a really strong urge to watch the cinema snob. Lol
Do they do stuff like that with Cinema Snob? - Cal
I completely agree… BUT, Games Workshop is building a new factory at the moment, sooo… 🤷♂️
What really where can you tell us where to look for that news? - Cal
Personally i wouldnt mind seeing them purge a bunch of older Primaris kits into legends because it would be funny to watch the spoiled marine players throw a hissy fit.
It could be very funny but also very uhh dangerous business wise - Cal
Having all the options.... 3D printer goes brrrrr
I'm new, don't understand like 90% of this, building World Eaters, am I safe? Also thinking of Iron Jaws for AoS. And uhhhhh secretly hoping for Night Lords to exist properly. How cooked am I?
In short Games-Workshop has too much stuff and they can't please everyone. You are fine as your stuff is super new - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Such is the way! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
@@pokelogikx Glad I made you feel some relief - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow honestly thankful for the assurance. Feels like every hobby I touch starts to implode soon after.
If the title ends with a Question Mark, it answer is for 99.999% "no"
Well the answer is yes, that's what we say in the episode - Cal
I really wish 40k would just bifurcate and let 40k be complex and include everything and let kill team be, ahem….”streamlined”
Bring back comparing WS in hth. Bring by points and war gear. I’m kinda done playing 40k at this point. The game is f’ing stupid
Just like the necromunda genestealer cults got a better release than the cults 40K release
They look super interesting, I like the direction they are going with them it makes it quite interest - Cal
Who buys firstborn tactical marines these days? There are other firstborn veteran units that are cool, but tacticals? Just start to phase out those already. Then upscale the more worthy entries like GW did with terminators and sternguard.
Yes and no? There are literally hundreds of units, and logistics of it are complicated, but only a handful of sets are actually in the rotation due to very intentional "balancing to sell" strategy.
Sometimes it wasn't possible to buy intercessors outside the combat patrols and stuff, because shops just didn't buy them as separate sets. And I didn't need a lot of intercessors in the first place - I still can't force myself to paint a 4th 5 men squad, never ever do I have uses for them in my army. And I really think they are going to role tactical squad and intercessors into a single datasheet, and just send devastators to legends. So there's gonna be less bloating in the future hopefully.
We will see how the future unfolds - Cal
I feel like the only reason Desolators are not called is the Desolator from Red Alert 2
Perhaps - Cal
you lost me at "if your playing one army you arent going to buy another". Have you actually met the players ? ya dont seem to know the player base at all
I do know the player base, and the economy. That may have been true in the past, that's why I talked about how allies was such a good thing. However, I don't think people have the money to blow anymore. However, I do see you point I hope you see ours - Cal
Is great heard in your comunnity is common have more than an army, in ours and many more I personally I know is hard to find, perhaps is that the reason, we are from diferents groups.