Only thing missing here, is a set of frames where James could show the differences so all what is talked about would be clearer for all. Exelent vid as usual!!
I do understand the purpose of the spacers, especially for those of us, that are carrying extra weight. After riding for a while your geometry changes, probably most extreme for those who lose a bit of weight(15 kilos for me).
I was about to get a race geometry for my first bike but then realised my back would give out in a week , went with an endurance geometry 700km ( only been a month and a half) later , absolutely love the frame , if you're a first timer into cycling definitely get an endurance frame
75 year old friend of mine still rides full race position-but then he has been riding and racing since he was 10 years old, and to a very high level, Olympic squad, Commonwealth Games squad, etc etc. His position just looks impossible to me at 71, and it would be, my Specialized Roubaix suits me fine although he calls it a touring bike and says that I should get a race bike......
Realy great advice to get a bike fit first but not always possible for a lot of people as most bike shops havent a clue about fittings, so we rely on you tube to help us 😀
Excellent video mate, I find aggresive riding position isnt really comfortable for me or even faster, i am now in relaxed position and more comfortable and the result is faster and overall much more fun experience, thanks to you and James.
Same old bike industry nonsense. They sell bikes off the back of sponsoring and marketing around pro teams, so consumers want those bikes. Plus all their marketing is x% stiffer than last year, save 3 watts! It isn't just geometry but race gearing that isn't appropriate for your 150-200w ftp casual group riders carrying an extra 10-20kg bodyweight. Most bike shops are just as complicit because they want you to buy a bike even if it isn't a good match for you.
@Emlynthese watt savings make me laugh. a mate of mine in my village is a bike sellers wet dream. if you tell him he can save watts or go faster with X he will buy it. he drives me mad. he paid £90 each for two titanium bottle cages to save a few grams and that is just the tip of the iceberg of stupidity he rides on
One interesting thing to note on each years 1% stiffer/compliant point. It does get old hearing about this with every release. But look back over the course of 5/10 years and the difference is really noticeable. Take a bike from 1992 and one from 2019, those 1-2 %'s really add up when you see how far it has come
I’m curious to know about what James’ opinions are on the kind of stuff jan heine and other proponents of randonneuring bikes use, like randonneur handlebars, leather saddles, short-trail geometry, flexible steel frames and large-volume tyres. it seems to me like there’s a whole alternate way of thinking about bikes going on with the resurgence of 1950s-french-style allroad randonneur bikes mostly in the ‘states.
Well said, totally agree that one should get a fit before buying a bike. I tell anyone that's new to cycling that. I learned the hard way, 4 bikes later.
great content tho. you can really see that james really knows what he is saying, i just wish there was a guy like him in every bike shop in the world. a man that is knowledgeable to what we need about bikes.
I know someone who was just about to buy one company's Ti gravel bike because Laurence(?) answered a question in your video during a drive down to some event where he said a Ti gravel was the best bike to buy now. That someone was asking for the invoice and to have the bike shipped over to him. The bike company insisted on working with a local shop and said shop insisted on a bike fit. The guy stomped off to do the fit and it turns out that the Ti bike was too long for him. Even in XS it was too long! So, he had to go with another company's bike (not Ti) but which the fitter said made a lot more sense. The guy now reports that this alloy bike feels really "dialed in", he is comfortable, there are no saddle sores as with his old bike and he doesn't seem exhausted even though he has been off a bike for two years. So, yeah, James is quite right in that every company's bikes' geometries are different and it is best to get a fitting done first. The guy feels sorry for the first bike company but what can he do? Maybe buy a Ti road bike from them? Those fit so hrmmm...
100% agree with this see way to many people lately on 10k aero bikes with 50mm worth of spacers under the stem. I'll stick to my TCR that has gave me no issues. Love the look of these aero slammed bikes but that's as far as it goes 4 me
I got a Wilier NDR a month ago. It's not really 'comfortable' for short rides (but I'm still experimenting), but when you do get uncomfortable (200km+), you can really feel the bike starts to work with you and seems to generate 'untiredness', so you scoot along real well. 5'8"/ 172cm tall, I got a size S (part because I wanted a lot of space for a bikepacking bag, and I can over-raise the seat a bit). It's a good, fun bike. Thanks guys.
For another edition of Bike Fit “Tuesday”, could James do an “old school” bike fit on someone without the use of current technology. While I understand that everyone is different, it would be good to see how he would start with someone in a generic start position and how he would tweak them just based on what he sees/measures without the use of computers/cameras/motion capture for those that want to learn the basics of bike fit.
I changed my 10 cm stem to 8 cm. Now I have more comfortable position for me. Back pain was disapear. I can ride more and more without pain. I have 183 cm and 85 of leg, my frame is 56 cm size.
I have to say ever since I’ve been watching your channel I was able to learn and tweek my bike and I’m actually 1.5-2 miles faster and a lot more comfortable on Long rides. And that’s with all my 5 different bikes. Thank you, but one day I need to find a professional fitter.
I've recently bought a 2018 Cannondale Synapse Alloy, so no more tales of a 2003 Marin Bobcat Trail from me, and I seriously like it. It's comfortable while it's pretty responsive when I put the power down. Which is pretty much all I ask for from a bike. 🚲
The voice of reason again. My current road bike is built on a gravel frameset because it fitted me. Swap out the wheels and tyres and it's good in the dirt.
Wish all bike shop was honest about it! Bought my my bike from a place when never really fitted me. All he said I can fit you in this one, " IS ON SALE NOW ".
I've had my Giant Defy since 2015 and when I bought the bike I got a bike fit at the same time, they sorted my cleat position and saddle height etc as this was my first foray into road cycling. The fit itself was good as I was able to ride without any pain whatsoever. However I've only just discovered this channel and I've taken the advice of moving my cleats further back on my Sidi Kaos shoes and it certainly feels even more comfortable and it's now even easier to get clipped in. I have now subscribed to channel as the content is 👌
As someone who rides small frames I'm subjected to poor geometry (fork take) to address toe overlap. What's James view on this and what fork rake is ideal for road bikes.
@@Lukas-zd3sn I ended up going custom to address the geometry issue with a really long top tube, but I'm interested in know James thoughts on this problem and how he addresses it.
Spacers are a reality even on many off the peg endurance bikes with higher fronts. Because they aren't that high compared with old school frames. You have to to go oversize which is not advisable. 25mm of spacers on a non quill stem is accepted. Quill stems were often raised even on tall front ended bikes.
I'm rather new to bikes. I did a bikefit that was not that good. It was very "mechanic". Making sure the angles fit some book and there you go, next please. As far as I know there is nothing here as evolved as you do there. What would be an acceptable amount of spacers in a bike? Mine currently has what came from the shop (25mm) but I've read that for instance the minimum for the specialized venge is 18mm (the way they built the bike requires that spacers length).
I recently had my saddle and seatpost stolen from me and finding the right seatpost height combined with the saddle height has been an adventure. I'm with James in always bringing the saddle down. I had it much too high at first and had knee problems. I've got my position sorted for now, but new parts might extend the adventure.
Started riding 4.5 years ago and bought a Synapse. The only fit issue I had was the saddle. Swapped it out for a Fizik Arione and the problems went away. For my next bike, I bought a BMC TMR02 aero bike. I payed for it before testing it, basically just told the shop owner I need a 61 cm and payed over the phone. I know testing is recommend before purchasing, but I’ve had no issues with fit on the bike over the last 2.5 years. I will say that I’d rather use the Synapse for commuting and long rides, poor weather rides. The BMC is for short to medium rides, spring and summer. In terms of fit, I have found that saddle choice and shoe choice are critical for me. I seem to be an easy fit otherwise.
Only way is a bike fit at bike shop... your stand over height is more than 1 inch, road handlebar feels too narrow, you gotta look and read geometry chart
I bought 2 bikes with an XL size frame endurance fit because I'm 6 ft 4. Hate them. Had a bike fit, chose a race fit L frame size. The most comfortable bike I've got. I'm not a racer but I do wonder how a Size L endurance fit would have been better....
@@Cade_Media I'm between sizes apparently on the Giant Size Chart, My advice would be to go smaller if that's the case for anyone. But obviously, get a bike fit first!
I had a 2010 tarmac pro for years and long rides would ALWAYS result in sore hands, neck and eventually lower back - and progressively got worse as I got older and kids came along (dad bod). Wasn't till i recently got an endurance bike (giant defy advanced pro) that i found you CAN cycle and not be sore! I actually tried to drop the handlebars recently thinking I was missing the 'long and low' aero gains. Guess what? that ride was agony!
Nice vid guys. I did disagree with one thing though: the implications that a custom build must be expensive. Getting a frame custom built is only a small fraction (5 to 10%) of the cost, but it is one factor that drives the resurgence of steel. Must of my clients who are looking for a steel frame get a custom build, either to match a bike fit or to match their favorite bike. Keep up the good work.
I see so many people who buy a super aggressive racing bike and then stick a ton of spacers under the stem, tilt the bars back and never use the drops. Guys: buy an endurance bike. They are really good these days. If you want to get more aero, use the drops.
Been riding bikes for 40 years never had a bike fit to old to change I would imagine! but I can ride 5 hours in 1 hit get off and do me house work on a Saturday afternoon so that’s good enough for me I ride and I race long and low ultimately you will never be comfortable whatever you ride if you don’t put the time in and get fit and light😊👍
What do you come out of the bike fit with? A list of measurements? Some memory of the position you were in which was comfortable? How do you translate these to the bikes in the showroom with various saddle heights and stem lengths etc?
A full list of measurements - you can either manually work out which frame sizes will fit using manufacturers geometry charts or ask the fitter to help with this step
I got a 2021 Vitus Razor Disc- very entry level but pretty decent(Full Sora/TRP Spyre brakes) for £620 discounted, and as always the frame manufacturers crossover from S-M is my height at 170cm...but, given that the ETT is 531(S) and 545(M) I opted small for these reasons- 1- on 170mm cranks my centre of axle to seat top is 88cm 2- I'm 54, not that flexible and my torso is obviously very short in relation to my leg length. 3- Small came with 40cm bars and an 80mm stem (this would have been 42cm/90mm on Medium), I haven't changed them but have flipped the 7 degree stem and yes I have (all the)30mm of spacers under the stem, the head tube is only about 130mm . 4- My biggest issue is I need the stack height of a M/L frame (and say a 155/160mm head tube) but the ETT of a S or even XS bike maybe 515-530mm I've since found through numerous vids etc that maybe a womens frame geometry may be the thing as they are geared to long legs and short torsos, whereas classic male geometry favours a longer torso to shorter leg... Womens frame eh.....Aye fine if they didn't all come in baby blue, turquoise, cerise, pink, violet and all those other p**fy colour schemes even my missus despises!!!
Love this. My only gripe is that I don’t live in the UK, so I can’t get a fit from James. He doesn’t happen to have any recommendations for fitters in Melbourne by any chance?
This why certain manufacturers now make race frames with pretty high head tubes so the middle age mammal ( with money to spend) can feel the part but can also look a muppet. I remember having a chat with Christiano de rosa , they build race frames which are long and low for people who can actually ride that style of frame !
Alex Dowsett is a great example of this, he's not that flexible but an insane rouleur and as a road bike he choose the Ultimate over the Aeroad because the Aeroad is way to agressive for him. But I have a question for James, so I am 178cm with 88cm inseam basically I am like Daisy, I started cycling with a Specialized Diverge (basically the same geometry as a Trek Domane) the thing is, those bike are horrible to handle, they feel like a boat because of their angle and their wheelbase, I am now seaching for a more racy bike / lightweight / stiff, basically a light low & long specrtum of the endurance bike, but these things doesn't exist anymore almost cause most brands go for their bullshit spring suspension disc brake frame and honestly i just get pretty bored with the way the cycling industry is going. If he knows a good light endurance frame let me know.
Look at the wheelbase of the endurance frames. That might give you a tip on what endurance frame type might work. I have a Scott Solace, which is an endurance frame, but relatively short wheelbase. One of the Scott Addict frames replaced the Solace. But I would get a bike fit first and then go from there.
Excellent video. Curious, have you done fits for touring? Let's say I have a steel gravel/touring bike, (long CS, low BB, panniers, etc) I see many touring riders have many many spacers under the stem... What is your opinion on that? Should the riding positon change (in this case, a super duper upright position for touring) depending on the dicipline of the sport, or should all bikes have the same riding position regardless? Thanks and keep these bike fit Tuesdays videos coming!
I wish everyone I have to sell bikes to would buy this bike. I have way too many customers who want race bikes, but weight 100 kg and can't reach their knees.
Such a nice topic to cover it all Cade I've got a new bike today. A merida 100 with 105 group set and time pedals Might need to change some components, still love cycling
Hi guys, love these videos !!!!! The comment about having spacers under you stem , “if you need spacers the bikes does fit “ what angle stem does this take into consideration ? Should the” custom “fit use perfect horizontal stem ? Surely if the stem isn’t parallel with the ground “the bike doesn’t fit “???
Ah, don't dis the trek pilot, it was like old Italian square geometry with a sloping top tube, not such a daft idea really. anyways, love the content, its bang on.
Old upload... but I'll chime in. James brings up great points... however, regarding the 20yr old pro model for R&D at the manufacturing level. Most "pro" 20-30yr olds, who's bikes' I've researched... go quite a bit further than just an aggressive bike. Most pros are riding at least one size smaller... 110mm (or greater) stem, which is probably negative on the rise... a seat post height that suggests they have a 40" inseam, for max aero... and a saddle that is in no way shape or form good for supporting the human body. It's my belief that a weekend warrior, or average Joe, that's in decent cycling shape (say 25% body fat or less) can get great enjoyment from a properly sized race bike, with an appropriate saddle. The bike might not look set up like it's ready for a Gran Tour, but it can be set up for comfort and enjoyment. Honestly, I wish OEM's would sell frames more exclusively, and allow us consumers to build our bikes completely to spec. "Off the rack" bikes will always be a shot in the dark with out a professional fitting.
yeah, bikes are not as aggresive as the video might suggest. I had a bike fitting on my GIant TCR and guess what - we slammed the front end, I have a negative angle on a longinsh stem, seatpost is higher so the TCR wasn't aggresive enough geo by default, at least for me and I'm almost 40 years old with no history of racing bikes at all...
What’s the ideal stem length for good balance of stability and handling? Then choosing a bike/frame size based on that. I assume most of us choose frame then compromise on stem length to make it fit
go for a singlespeed rather than fixed. If you love it, try fixed but fixed in traffic takes a lot of skill and personally I found it too stressful. Singlespeed has some of benefits but is easier. If you get a flip-flop hub you can try both easily.
The issue is that people's decision to buy a road bike is half based on how cool it looks. There are literally groups of people who say get a bike you like looking at because you'll ride it more. Add to this the tendency for people to buy frames that are too small for them and you get ridiculous looking bikes with tiny or super long stems and mountains of spacers or a 15cm saddle to handlebar drop but drops that are never used while riding unless descending because they're too far down. Trek has tried to solve the problem by letting their racers who showcase the bikes in exciting races ride a super low configuration h1 but then sell normal bikes at h2 headtube length without telling you and then only selling h1 geometries on the highest end frames that have to be specially ordered.
I liked the video, but I feel like there should be a part 2 or something. Like after you get fitted for a bike, how does that influence what bike you should get? -from a bike novice
Im new to the channel and think the same after every video i see. I think they are really great touch stones, but im still left completely none the wiser as to how I apply fitting data to actually then finding a bike - that isn't custom built. How do I actually use the fitting information, when apparently every bike manufacturer's geometry charts bare zero relation to anything whatsoever.
Great advice from James once again. When James does a bike fit, would it be possible to show the before and after positions so we can appreciate the changes that James has made. I love the banter but I would like to better understand the changes he makes to people's position on the bike. . Bike fit is essential but riding or pedaling technique is also essential. I would like to hear James's thoughts on this as well. Thank you. Content very appreciated.
Can you recommend a good place to place advanced personal measurements against recommended frame sizes? Everyone tells me a 56 is too small for me @186cm and 83cm inseam but it seems competitive cyclist tool puts me with geometry closer to a 56 than 58. I get the opposite at shops when they are recommending me frame size. I am presently riding trek Emonda 60cm and love the overall feel. It’s just the size is off even after going from 110 to 90 stem
So what do you think about the Canyon endurance AL 7.0, here in Germany is the Canyon location where you get your measurements. I think this would be a kinda bike fit, but not like you're doing it. Need some help. I am searching for a roadbike for round about 1000€.
I'm currently riding this frame (rim break version). Geometry wise it's kinda like the Look 765 James mentioned (Looks S size is kinda like Canyons XS size on the AL frames). Very comfortable, very well build. The only down side for me is the toe overlap (european shoe size 40, cleats very far back). But that's probably due to a combination of my very conservative cleat position and small frame sizes. Got used to it very quick. @Lukas M. Wenn du dir unsicher bist wegen der Größe, fahr doch einfach nach Koblenz zu Canyon und lass' dich dort beraten.
I have a question... why do people keep referring to a rider;s flexibility as a key factor or role to play in riding a bike, it's not like they are doing yoga on the bike so what do they mean when they say flexible?
I consider myself a noob and I totally get where you're coming from. I've been using my wife's 51 cm Ruby with the saddle height on the limit of extension! Although back pain creeps in at about 60km, I did push myself once (with a few of rests stops) to complete my first 100km ride. Fast forward a few weeks, I came across Strava and the 'segments' sections. I find them inspiring which helps to motivate me. Now I have the bug I'm eager to purchase my own bike with the race or endurance dilemma! Is there a bike that dose both? Think I'll take a bike fit first. Great advice, thanks for sharing :-)
6:42 is he making fun of me directly ? HAHAHHA I usually grab "a" bike, frankenbike the shit out of it, and ride it till it gets stolen, repeat. Never had a bike fit, never knew there was any such thing till BFTs came to me in a youtube dream. Riding a 19 inch Gary Fisher Big Sur at the moment, cause it was 50 dollars and the bright yellow everything I wanted in a used bike including size was 300 more than I could spare at the time. Then, the shitbag bike sat on ebay for 3 months torturing me while every time I got the money, this needed fixed, this broke, so and so needs this and so forth and so on. I got an extension on the Big Sur, about 6 inches or more. Fuck I love this channel.
I would be interested in a bike fit but I have two main concerns. Firstly, they all seem to cost a fortune - really I'd want to be paying £80 maximum for 60-90 minutes of time. Secondly, I don't have a good way of knowing who is a cowboy and who is the genuine article. This is what makes me think twice about it.
3-4 hours is how long a fit with James takes, hence the price tag... You're paying for years of experience. IBFI website to find fitters who've done more than just a week long course in fitting.
(i.e there persued further education). Obviously there will be some better than others even on the ibfi website, but we can probably recommend someone if you let us know where you're looking.
Start with why - why do you want a fit? No fit is perfect - they are often a compromise between comfort and performance, knowing what you want out of a fit will help you find a good fitter. Some people are super sensitive to tiny changes on bike fitting, others (like me) can can tolerate a wide variation in fit so don't really need a fit. If you want a fit for injury, someone with a physio background is good. To race, ask a local club / crit for recommendations, long distance - a local audax group might be able to help
Just seeing this as I'm in the process of the bike upgrade to my 2nd bike. Classic close to 40 dad that rides once or twice a week (more so after the invention of Zwift). outside would be leasure/endurance where as inside it is more racing (albeit stationary). Any framesets you'd recommend I should start looking with?
A height of rider for a bike frame size [for different manufacturers] would be useful.......and what are the pointers.....not everyone can get a 'bike fit'.
Thanks for the very informative video. I have question for James: I currently ride a traditional rim brake road bike and my current bike setup/position is refined to where I have no issues or complaints and that I think it’s perfect for me. But am currently looking to buy a disc brake road bike and I was wondering do you advise to get a bike fit first or buy the frame set and components I want and then replicate all the main contact points dimensions ie: saddle height, saddle set back, handle bar height, handle bar reach etc from the centre of the BB? Please note my current setup/position was created by a bike fitter who I can no longer contact as he has left the industry to pursue a new career in treating military personnel injured from IEDs
Only thing missing here, is a set of frames where James could show the differences so all what is talked about would be clearer for all. Exelent vid as usual!!
i would say most don't get bike fits because they don't either know a good bike fitter or trust one.
Totally agree.
price
As a guy with 4 spacers and an 80mm stem I feel personally attacked.
@@Cade_Media jeez I looked and I have 3 spacers. haha....conrads to Alex D. team on a very good showing on time trial in the Tour de France btw
I do understand the purpose of the spacers, especially for those of us, that are carrying extra weight. After riding for a while your geometry changes, probably most extreme for those who lose a bit of weight(15 kilos for me).
I got 2 spacers and 90mm stem... and i feel a little attacked
What size spacers are we talking about here? Having (4) 2mm spacers is minimal. Having (2) 20mm spacers is a different story.
@@josh33172 one 10mm and three 5mm spacers. Rocking all the spacers.
I was about to get a race geometry for my first bike but then realised my back would give out in a week , went with an endurance geometry 700km ( only been a month and a half) later , absolutely love the frame , if you're a first timer into cycling definitely get an endurance frame
75 year old friend of mine still rides full race position-but then he has been riding and racing since he was 10 years old, and to a very high level, Olympic squad, Commonwealth Games squad, etc etc. His position just looks impossible to me at 71, and it would be, my Specialized Roubaix suits me fine although he calls it a touring bike and says that I should get a race bike......
How's the rye smile from James at 0:18, love it. He is the Benedict Cumberbatch of bike fitters. He needs a trappers cap and a pipe to smoke.
Realy great advice to get a bike fit first but not always possible for a lot of people as most bike shops havent a clue about fittings, so we rely on you tube to help us 😀
This, in my opinion, is the best Bike Fit Tuesday to date. Saved to show to all of my new cycling friends. Thanks James!
That is spot on! Saved thousands by having a bike fitting done first. Great video
how can I Do a bike fit, WHEN NONE OF THE BIKE STORES NEAR ME HAVE BIKES!
nobody seems to be doing bike fits either
Excellent video mate, I find aggresive riding position isnt really comfortable for me or even faster, i am now in relaxed position and more comfortable and the result is faster and overall much more fun experience, thanks to you and James.
Same old bike industry nonsense. They sell bikes off the back of sponsoring and marketing around pro teams, so consumers want those bikes. Plus all their marketing is x% stiffer than last year, save 3 watts! It isn't just geometry but race gearing that isn't appropriate for your 150-200w ftp casual group riders carrying an extra 10-20kg bodyweight. Most bike shops are just as complicit because they want you to buy a bike even if it isn't a good match for you.
Gryffes couldn’t have said it better myself
Gryffes well said. the marketing hype blinds too many people and the fall for it throwing all their money down the drain.
Correct... And you forgot the save 3 Watts at 40kph, exact not much average Joe's can do that speed
@Emlynthese watt savings make me laugh. a mate of mine in my village is a bike sellers wet dream. if you tell him he can save watts or go faster with X he will buy it. he drives me mad. he paid £90 each for two titanium bottle cages to save a few grams and that is just the tip of the iceberg of stupidity he rides on
One interesting thing to note on each years 1% stiffer/compliant point. It does get old hearing about this with every release. But look back over the course of 5/10 years and the difference is really noticeable. Take a bike from 1992 and one from 2019, those 1-2 %'s really add up when you see how far it has come
Take home tip: bike fit first, buy a bike second. Always super informative bike fit Tuesday! Thanks
always a wealth of honesty and information from James!
another good one james and francis .....
I’m curious to know about what James’ opinions are on the kind of stuff jan heine and other proponents of randonneuring bikes use, like randonneur handlebars, leather saddles, short-trail geometry, flexible steel frames and large-volume tyres. it seems to me like there’s a whole alternate way of thinking about bikes going on with the resurgence of 1950s-french-style allroad randonneur bikes mostly in the ‘states.
Well said, totally agree that one should get a fit before buying a bike. I tell anyone that's new to cycling that. I learned the hard way, 4 bikes later.
great content tho. you can really see that james really knows what he is saying, i just wish there was a guy like him in every bike shop in the world. a man that is knowledgeable to what we need about bikes.
I know someone who was just about to buy one company's Ti gravel bike because Laurence(?) answered a question in your video during a drive down to some event where he said a Ti gravel was the best bike to buy now. That someone was asking for the invoice and to have the bike shipped over to him.
The bike company insisted on working with a local shop and said shop insisted on a bike fit. The guy stomped off to do the fit and it turns out that the Ti bike was too long for him. Even in XS it was too long!
So, he had to go with another company's bike (not Ti) but which the fitter said made a lot more sense. The guy now reports that this alloy bike feels really "dialed in", he is comfortable, there are no saddle sores as with his old bike and he doesn't seem exhausted even though he has been off a bike for two years.
So, yeah, James is quite right in that every company's bikes' geometries are different and it is best to get a fitting done first.
The guy feels sorry for the first bike company but what can he do? Maybe buy a Ti road bike from them? Those fit so hrmmm...
100% agree with this see way to many people lately on 10k aero bikes with 50mm worth of spacers under the stem. I'll stick to my TCR that has gave me no issues. Love the look of these aero slammed bikes but that's as far as it goes 4 me
I got a Wilier NDR a month ago. It's not really 'comfortable' for short rides (but I'm still experimenting), but when you do get uncomfortable (200km+), you can really feel the bike starts to work with you and seems to generate 'untiredness', so you scoot along real well. 5'8"/ 172cm tall, I got a size S (part because I wanted a lot of space for a bikepacking bag, and I can over-raise the seat a bit). It's a good, fun bike. Thanks guys.
Andy Clarkan Still waiting for mine to arrive - they have me worried saying it rides more boring now! Still happy with it?
For another edition of Bike Fit “Tuesday”, could James do an “old school” bike fit on someone without the use of current technology. While I understand that everyone is different, it would be good to see how he would start with someone in a generic start position and how he would tweak them just based on what he sees/measures without the use of computers/cameras/motion capture for those that want to learn the basics of bike fit.
This is both for you and @bikefitjames
I changed my 10 cm stem to 8 cm. Now I have more comfortable position for me. Back pain was disapear. I can ride more and more without pain. I have 183 cm and 85 of leg, my frame is 56 cm size.
I have to say ever since I’ve been watching your channel I was able to learn and tweek my bike and I’m actually 1.5-2 miles faster and a lot more comfortable on Long rides. And that’s with all my 5 different bikes. Thank you, but one day I need to find a professional fitter.
I've recently bought a 2018 Cannondale Synapse Alloy, so no more tales of a 2003 Marin Bobcat Trail from me, and I seriously like it. It's comfortable while it's pretty responsive when I put the power down. Which is pretty much all I ask for from a bike. 🚲
This guy knows his stuff! 👌🏻
The voice of reason again. My current road bike is built on a gravel frameset because it fitted me. Swap out the wheels and tyres and it's good in the dirt.
It's all about what is good for you. I like it.
That Fat City/IF rocket in the background use to be made in my hometown (Cambridge, MA, USA) 25 years of class. So fun to see them show up in London.
Wish all bike shop was honest about it!
Bought my my bike from a place when never really fitted me. All he said I can fit you in this one, " IS ON SALE NOW ".
Great video as always Francis!
Bike fit Sundays is the future!!!
I've had my Giant Defy since 2015 and when I bought the bike I got a bike fit at the same time, they sorted my cleat position and saddle height etc as this was my first foray into road cycling. The fit itself was good as I was able to ride without any pain whatsoever. However I've only just discovered this channel and I've taken the advice of moving my cleats further back on my Sidi Kaos shoes and it certainly feels even more comfortable and it's now even easier to get clipped in. I have now subscribed to channel as the content is 👌
As someone who rides small frames I'm subjected to poor geometry (fork take) to address toe overlap. What's James view on this and what fork rake is ideal for road bikes.
Maybe check out 'standert' frames, worked out for a tiny friend of mine
@@Lukas-zd3sn I ended up going custom to address the geometry issue with a really long top tube, but I'm interested in know James thoughts on this problem and how he addresses it.
Spacers are a reality even on many off the peg endurance bikes with higher fronts. Because they aren't that high compared with old school frames. You have to to go oversize which is not advisable. 25mm of spacers on a non quill stem is accepted. Quill stems were often raised even on tall front ended bikes.
I'm rather new to bikes. I did a bikefit that was not that good. It was very "mechanic". Making sure the angles fit some book and there you go, next please. As far as I know there is nothing here as evolved as you do there. What would be an acceptable amount of spacers in a bike? Mine currently has what came from the shop (25mm) but I've read that for instance the minimum for the specialized venge is 18mm (the way they built the bike requires that spacers length).
So relevant. Love this series &your channel
I recently had my saddle and seatpost stolen from me and finding the right seatpost height combined with the saddle height has been an adventure. I'm with James in always bringing the saddle down. I had it much too high at first and had knee problems. I've got my position sorted for now, but new parts might extend the adventure.
Started riding 4.5 years ago and bought a Synapse. The only fit issue I had was the saddle. Swapped it out for a Fizik Arione and the problems went away. For my next bike, I bought a BMC TMR02 aero bike. I payed for it before testing it, basically just told the shop owner I need a 61 cm and payed over the phone. I know testing is recommend before purchasing, but I’ve had no issues with fit on the bike over the last 2.5 years. I will say that I’d rather use the Synapse for commuting and long rides, poor weather rides. The BMC is for short to medium rides, spring and summer. In terms of fit, I have found that saddle choice and shoe choice are critical for me. I seem to be an easy fit otherwise.
James is the Yoda of bike knowledge. May the Francis be with.
T. Burk missed a word you did
As Mr. Burns would say, “Excellent” video! One of the best out there in regards of bike fitting. Very informative, clear and concise. Thanks. 👍 👍
Back in the days we had no "bike fitting" and we were fine anyways.
One of the best bikefit videos!
Short question: How can you tell if the frame you have is too small for you?
Only way is a bike fit at bike shop... your stand over height is more than 1 inch, road handlebar feels too narrow, you gotta look and read geometry chart
I bought 2 bikes with an XL size frame endurance fit because I'm 6 ft 4. Hate them. Had a bike fit, chose a race fit L frame size. The most comfortable bike I've got. I'm not a racer but I do wonder how a Size L endurance fit would have been better....
Generally size charts lead people to choose frames that are too big!
@@Cade_Media I'm between sizes apparently on the Giant Size Chart, My advice would be to go smaller if that's the case for anyone. But obviously, get a bike fit first!
Very much appreciated this video on bike fit.
I had a 2010 tarmac pro for years and long rides would ALWAYS result in sore hands, neck and eventually lower back - and progressively got worse as I got older and kids came along (dad bod). Wasn't till i recently got an endurance bike (giant defy advanced pro) that i found you CAN cycle and not be sore! I actually tried to drop the handlebars recently thinking I was missing the 'long and low' aero gains. Guess what? that ride was agony!
Nice vid guys. I did disagree with one thing though: the implications that a custom build must be expensive. Getting a frame custom built is only a small fraction (5 to 10%) of the cost, but it is one factor that drives the resurgence of steel. Must of my clients who are looking for a steel frame get a custom build, either to match a bike fit or to match their favorite bike. Keep up the good work.
Compared to a upper end frame yes, but when your budget is £1000 for a bike, you can't really go custom.
Do you have a desk fitting service for persons aged 35-60 ? 1:22
All points considered I really do prefer the flat non compact top tube geometry style frames on a road race bicycle.
I see so many people who buy a super aggressive racing bike and then stick a ton of spacers under the stem, tilt the bars back and never use the drops. Guys: buy an endurance bike. They are really good these days. If you want to get more aero, use the drops.
Been riding bikes for 40 years never had a bike fit to old to change I would imagine! but I can ride 5 hours in 1 hit get off and do me house work on a Saturday afternoon so that’s good enough for me I ride and I race long and low ultimately you will never be comfortable whatever you ride if you don’t put the time in and get fit and light😊👍
Thanks James, very informative.. wish I could get a bike fit from you.. just too far away.
What do you come out of the bike fit with? A list of measurements? Some memory of the position you were in which was comfortable? How do you translate these to the bikes in the showroom with various saddle heights and stem lengths etc?
A full list of measurements - you can either manually work out which frame sizes will fit using manufacturers geometry charts or ask the fitter to help with this step
I got a 2021 Vitus Razor Disc- very entry level but pretty decent(Full Sora/TRP Spyre brakes) for £620 discounted, and as always the frame manufacturers crossover from S-M is my height at 170cm...but, given that the ETT is 531(S) and 545(M) I opted small for these reasons-
1- on 170mm cranks my centre of axle to seat top is 88cm
2- I'm 54, not that flexible and my torso is obviously very short in relation to my leg length.
3- Small came with 40cm bars and an 80mm stem (this would have been 42cm/90mm on Medium), I haven't changed them but have flipped the 7 degree stem and yes I have (all the)30mm of spacers under the stem, the head tube is only about 130mm .
4- My biggest issue is I need the stack height of a M/L frame (and say a 155/160mm head tube) but the ETT of a S or even XS bike maybe 515-530mm
I've since found through numerous vids etc that maybe a womens frame geometry may be the thing as they are geared to long legs and short torsos, whereas classic male geometry favours a longer torso to shorter leg...
Womens frame eh.....Aye fine if they didn't all come in baby blue, turquoise, cerise, pink, violet and all those other p**fy colour schemes even my missus despises!!!
Sporty side of endurance is best for me like an Allez with a slightly shorter head tube. That’s what the geometry of my current bike is.
Love this. My only gripe is that I don’t live in the UK, so I can’t get a fit from James. He doesn’t happen to have any recommendations for fitters in Melbourne by any chance?
I'm watching this on Tuesday
Always interesting to listen to you James. All about #bikefittuesday
This why certain manufacturers now make race frames with pretty high head tubes so the middle age mammal ( with money to spend) can feel the part but can also look a muppet. I remember having a chat with Christiano de rosa , they build race frames which are long and low for people who can actually ride that style of frame !
Alex Dowsett is a great example of this, he's not that flexible but an insane rouleur and as a road bike he choose the Ultimate over the Aeroad because the Aeroad is way to agressive for him.
But I have a question for James, so I am 178cm with 88cm inseam basically I am like Daisy, I started cycling with a Specialized Diverge (basically the same geometry as a Trek Domane) the thing is, those bike are horrible to handle, they feel like a boat because of their angle and their wheelbase, I am now seaching for a more racy bike / lightweight / stiff, basically a light low & long specrtum of the endurance bike, but these things doesn't exist anymore almost cause most brands go for their bullshit spring suspension disc brake frame and honestly i just get pretty bored with the way the cycling industry is going.
If he knows a good light endurance frame let me know.
you might be in custom territory there
@@Cade_Media Yeah but that's the problem and i'm not the only one to have this problem sadly.
@@Zeben84 looking at custom for Daisy now!
Look at the wheelbase of the endurance frames. That might give you a tip on what endurance frame type might work. I have a Scott Solace, which is an endurance frame, but relatively short wheelbase. One of the Scott Addict frames replaced the Solace. But I would get a bike fit first and then go from there.
ZeBen84 Look 765 might be worth a punt - a bit more fun than the big American stuff
Brilliant advice as always - well said !
Excellent video. Curious, have you done fits for touring? Let's say I have a steel gravel/touring bike, (long CS, low BB, panniers, etc) I see many touring riders have many many spacers under the stem... What is your opinion on that? Should the riding positon change (in this case, a super duper upright position for touring) depending on the dicipline of the sport, or should all bikes have the same riding position regardless? Thanks and keep these bike fit Tuesdays videos coming!
It doesn't matter how light or stiff or aero your bike is. You will go faster if you are comfortable and your body isn't under stress.
I wish everyone I have to sell bikes to would buy this bike. I have way too many customers who want race bikes, but weight 100 kg and can't reach their knees.
Such a nice topic to cover it all Cade
I've got a new bike today. A merida 100 with 105 group set and time pedals
Might need to change some components, still love cycling
Shit I guess I've done the wrong way then
Hi guys, love these videos !!!!! The comment about having spacers under you stem , “if you need spacers the bikes does fit “ what angle stem does this take into consideration ? Should the” custom “fit use perfect horizontal stem ? Surely if the stem isn’t parallel with the ground “the bike doesn’t fit “???
Ah, don't dis the trek pilot, it was like old Italian square geometry with a sloping top tube, not such a daft idea really. anyways, love the content, its bang on.
Wish I could’ve liked this video 10 times. Brilliant advice from James
great video thanks!
Really interesting and informative! 👍👍
I am 1,93 and dont get to choose from that many frame-sizes... I need my spacers. :)
same here. Plus long as hell legs.
Good advice, as always 🙂
Old upload... but I'll chime in. James brings up great points... however, regarding the 20yr old pro model for R&D at the manufacturing level. Most "pro" 20-30yr olds, who's bikes' I've researched... go quite a bit further than just an aggressive bike. Most pros are riding at least one size smaller... 110mm (or greater) stem, which is probably negative on the rise... a seat post height that suggests they have a 40" inseam, for max aero... and a saddle that is in no way shape or form good for supporting the human body. It's my belief that a weekend warrior, or average Joe, that's in decent cycling shape (say 25% body fat or less) can get great enjoyment from a properly sized race bike, with an appropriate saddle. The bike might not look set up like it's ready for a Gran Tour, but it can be set up for comfort and enjoyment. Honestly, I wish OEM's would sell frames more exclusively, and allow us consumers to build our bikes completely to spec. "Off the rack" bikes will always be a shot in the dark with out a professional fitting.
yeah, bikes are not as aggresive as the video might suggest. I had a bike fitting on my GIant TCR and guess what - we slammed the front end, I have a negative angle on a longinsh stem, seatpost is higher so the TCR wasn't aggresive enough geo by default, at least for me and I'm almost 40 years old with no history of racing bikes at all...
lol... I got a Trek Pilot... my tourer! Yes... fitting is so important.
This felt like a 3 minute vid! 👍👍
What’s the ideal stem length for good balance of stability and handling? Then choosing a bike/frame size based on that. I assume most of us choose frame then compromise on stem length to make it fit
100-120mm is generally a safe length that doesn't compromise handling I've heard from james.
So should a new cyclist who wants a single speed for getting around town go with a fixed gear style bike or are those generally to aggressive?
A track bike will generally be agressive, a fixed gear town bike probably won't be
go for a singlespeed rather than fixed. If you love it, try fixed but fixed in traffic takes a lot of skill and personally I found it too stressful. Singlespeed has some of benefits but is easier. If you get a flip-flop hub you can try both easily.
The issue is that people's decision to buy a road bike is half based on how cool it looks. There are literally groups of people who say get a bike you like looking at because you'll ride it more.
Add to this the tendency for people to buy frames that are too small for them and you get ridiculous looking bikes with tiny or super long stems and mountains of spacers or a 15cm saddle to handlebar drop but drops that are never used while riding unless descending because they're too far down. Trek has tried to solve the problem by letting their racers who showcase the bikes in exciting races ride a super low configuration h1 but then sell normal bikes at h2 headtube length without telling you and then only selling h1 geometries on the highest end frames that have to be specially ordered.
Nice video and content!
I liked the video, but I feel like there should be a part 2 or something. Like after you get fitted for a bike, how does that influence what bike you should get? -from a bike novice
Im new to the channel and think the same after every video i see. I think they are really great touch stones, but im still left completely none the wiser as to how I apply fitting data to actually then finding a bike - that isn't custom built. How do I actually use the fitting information, when apparently every bike manufacturer's geometry charts bare zero relation to anything whatsoever.
I love my Trek Pilot, thank you very much 🤣
Really love these videos!
Great advice from James once again. When James does a bike fit, would it be possible to show the before and after positions so we can appreciate the changes that James has made. I love the banter but I would like to better understand the changes he makes to people's position on the bike. . Bike fit is essential but riding or pedaling technique is also essential. I would like to hear James's thoughts on this as well. Thank you. Content very appreciated.
Hi james. Would like to get your opinion in setting up rotor qrings 😁
This man , he talks a lot of sense
That was superb.
Can you recommend a good place to place advanced personal measurements against recommended frame sizes? Everyone tells me a 56 is too small for me @186cm and 83cm inseam but it seems competitive cyclist tool puts me with geometry closer to a 56 than 58. I get the opposite at shops when they are recommending me frame size. I am presently riding trek Emonda 60cm and love the overall feel. It’s just the size is off even after going from 110 to 90 stem
Gonna visit Richmond cycles when I’m next up.
Bicycle Richmond!
Yes! Silly me.
So what do you think about the Canyon endurance AL 7.0, here in Germany is the Canyon location where you get your measurements. I think this would be a kinda bike fit, but not like you're doing it. Need some help. I am searching for a roadbike for round about 1000€.
I'm currently riding this frame (rim break version). Geometry wise it's kinda like the Look 765 James mentioned (Looks S size is kinda like Canyons XS size on the AL frames).
Very comfortable, very well build. The only down side for me is the toe overlap (european shoe size 40, cleats very far back). But that's probably due to a combination of my very conservative cleat position and small frame sizes. Got used to it very quick.
@Lukas M. Wenn du dir unsicher bist wegen der Größe, fahr doch einfach nach Koblenz zu Canyon und lass' dich dort beraten.
I have a question... why do people keep referring to a rider;s flexibility as a key factor or role to play in riding a bike, it's not like they are doing yoga on the bike so what do they mean when they say flexible?
James is an awesome font of knowledge.
Heavy heavy content 🙂...solid information. Thank you.
So, is there such a frame as ndurance fit but feels and performs like a race frame? Perhaps the answer is custom? 🎥👌
For me, Cervelo C series and BMC Roadmachine are up there
I consider myself a noob and I totally get where you're coming from. I've been using my wife's 51 cm Ruby with the saddle height on the limit of extension! Although back pain creeps in at about 60km, I did push myself once (with a few of rests stops) to complete my first 100km ride. Fast forward a few weeks, I came across Strava and the 'segments' sections. I find them inspiring which helps to motivate me. Now I have the bug I'm eager to purchase my own bike with the race or endurance dilemma! Is there a bike that dose both? Think I'll take a bike fit first. Great advice, thanks for sharing :-)
6:42 is he making fun of me directly ? HAHAHHA I usually grab "a" bike, frankenbike the shit out of it, and ride it till it gets stolen, repeat. Never had a bike fit, never knew there was any such thing till BFTs came to me in a youtube dream.
Riding a 19 inch Gary Fisher Big Sur at the moment, cause it was 50 dollars and the bright yellow everything I wanted in a used bike including size was 300 more than I could spare at the time. Then, the shitbag bike sat on ebay for 3 months torturing me while every time I got the money, this needed fixed, this broke, so and so needs this and so forth and so on.
I got an extension on the Big Sur, about 6 inches or more.
Fuck I love this channel.
I would be interested in a bike fit but I have two main concerns. Firstly, they all seem to cost a fortune - really I'd want to be paying £80 maximum for 60-90 minutes of time. Secondly, I don't have a good way of knowing who is a cowboy and who is the genuine article. This is what makes me think twice about it.
3-4 hours is how long a fit with James takes, hence the price tag... You're paying for years of experience.
IBFI website to find fitters who've done more than just a week long course in fitting.
(i.e there persued further education). Obviously there will be some better than others even on the ibfi website, but we can probably recommend someone if you let us know where you're looking.
Start with why - why do you want a fit? No fit is perfect - they are often a compromise between comfort and performance, knowing what you want out of a fit will help you find a good fitter. Some people are super sensitive to tiny changes on bike fitting, others (like me) can can tolerate a wide variation in fit so don't really need a fit. If you want a fit for injury, someone with a physio background is good. To race, ask a local club / crit for recommendations, long distance - a local audax group might be able to help
Just seeing this as I'm in the process of the bike upgrade to my 2nd bike. Classic close to 40 dad that rides once or twice a week (more so after the invention of Zwift). outside would be leasure/endurance where as inside it is more racing (albeit stationary).
Any framesets you'd recommend I should start looking with?
anything labelled endurance/sportive/adventure - wilier Cento10NDR/ Specialized Roubaix / cannondale synapse
A height of rider for a bike frame size [for different manufacturers] would be useful.......and what are the pointers.....not everyone can get a 'bike fit'.
Love my Caad12. Great bike. I race it every time I ride. 90% against myself but who cares.
Thanks for the very informative video. I have question for James: I currently ride a traditional rim brake road bike and my current bike setup/position is refined to where I have no issues or complaints and that I think it’s perfect for me. But am currently looking to buy a disc brake road bike and I was wondering do you advise to get a bike fit first or buy the frame set and components I want and then replicate all the main contact points dimensions ie: saddle height, saddle set back, handle bar height, handle bar reach etc from the centre of the BB? Please note my current setup/position was created by a bike fitter who I can no longer contact as he has left the industry to pursue a new career in treating military personnel injured from IEDs
Should you go with a smaller frame if you go to drop bars?