Also worth noting, aside from the discount carrier, alot of other ships have at least some drone space and its worthwhile sticking defense drones on them. Setting def drones to escort will launch them all, so as long as you do it a min before combat, you can have larger ships with cheap small squadrons. It may seem superflous but those 10 or 20 drones do a really good job at pinning down craft so that medium turrets on the capitals can hit them with flak and co. It makes lone capitals alot less vulnerable to being swarmed by small craft they cant hit
I loved the way drones where implemented in x rebirth Ypu had diferent kinds of, depending on ur budget And tbh, a swarm of cost-efective drones sounds waay more realistic and usefull than a full fleet of man-piloted expensive fighters
@@T-Skillet if u i spire urself on the modern warfare, like carriers are, u could base the drone efectiveness and combat capabilities on the crew skills While fighters could stay as a special task force wing used for more specific and surgical ops Drones are the disposable meat to throw in droves for antifighter, defense and distraction U could even have special kamikaze drones to destroy especific targets and make a hole in the hull of the ship or station So much potential unused with the drones and the misiles that was in the x rebirth That game received way more hate than it deserved, i loved it
@@T-Skillet dont be The game received a lot of hate because it got rid of the capacity to use diferent ships, as well as being full.of bugs U were always in the same ship, the albion skunk, which was highly moddable But that game was a valiant effort to try and make something different, which i apreciated Tbh, i feel like the x series could be defined as massivw potenciality but too litle resources (staff and money) to make it happen
The drone cost difference has to do with how well funded the warf or shipyard is. Early mid game, i use satellite and drone cost differences between shipyards to quickly make money. Buy 450 satellite mkII's at one yard for $40-50k each, then sell them for $70-80k at another. I do variations of that trade 2 or 3 times before I start building my real station infrastructure.
@@T-Skillet I used an auxiliary as my drone ship before the H was added, I like the H more. But the aux can normally carry 100 drones plus 450 satellites. "To maximize profffiiitttssss
Monitor is my go to for drone carriers. Reasonable shields, reasonable turret output, an 100 drones...but the kicker is the 8 s pads. It just takes too long to load 100+ drones with a single pad.
I’m gonna ask you to post this again on the new video dropping today. It’s a follow up, since the current play through is set in base game I don’t see the stats for Split, Borron, or Terrans. That’s good info to know!!!
My latest playthrough I got lucky and pirated an Aux early on and made it my home base. Their launch tubes can spit out drones too, in fact I think that's all those tubes are for.
Yep, drones. I imagine the conventional use would be for launching repair drones and repairing multiple L class at the same time, but we can close an eye on that.
I just learned this on the forums and I had to tell you: you can install the Garage mod on S ships, giving them drone capacity. Meaning you can ferry repair drones to any newly-capped L ship! Can also sequester repair drones so they won't deploy in combat.
Glad more people are discovering the albatross. Sadly, it doesn't have launch tubes to speed up deployment, and recovery takes forever.. There are a few unusual ships with launch tubes, but most of them are not exactly good. Also consider that Laser Tower Mk II is launched by hangar/tube, individually, and not just dumped en-masse like Mk Is.
@@T-Skillet Absolutely. If we weren't meant to mass deploy them, why let us carry hundreds of them? But overall, I can't help but feel we could be having a much better game if only a few tweaks were made to turrets (so that they actually have useful roles), missiles, deployables, L/XL engines, etc.
Even Fleet orders... Fighters target fighter, target missiles, etc. But I do agree, only a handful of changes could make a world of difference. Very watchful for the 7.5 update. I feel that can just change the way players actually play.
Might I suggest that you don't have any Illegal Items on yourself while you have your drones out or armed like I did and have the police send the whole sector after you because your drones are trying to protect you and have yourself wondering why the whole faction is trying to kill you because they just killed the security police lol, and then have to reload your game hours and hours back ugh!!. :D .
I’m sorry that happened! That sucks. I’ve been there. If you just ride as a passenger and the pilot doesn’t have any items in his inventory…. Especially illegal ones you’ll be find. lol
...and just for fun, if you park (manually order to dock) a Jian with it's 6 turrets set to attack all enemies every ship with a (otherwise unused) M dock gets a real mean flak. Enjoy 🍺😁
Price difference is most likely because of the amount of resources on the station. I like the idea of using builders as drone-carriers (Protoss anyone?). Also swarm missiiles are better and adding towers is also good. I outfit my fighters with towers for the extra pew.
The problem with the Albatross is that it doesn't have a dedicated outlet for launching drones. This results in Albatross relying on the only S platform to deliver defense drones. Other builders may also have this problem. If someone thinks that there is no need to recycle drones, then 243 defense drones are indeed very suitable for you.
All the builder have roughly the same issue with deploying drones especially for this purpose. To be more effective you need to have them released before entering your desired position for them. Then put it into place. But even the Cerberus and like ships have an issue with deploying drones. As of typing this out I’m not sure it’s fixed but sometimes they won’t deploy if you’re not present. Which is a pain.
The thing that made me want to do this video WAS seeing drones work.Making the H an alternative to a carrier. But I noticed some issues last night. I’m going to investigate further.
Reminds me why I used to pirate aux and construction ships early back when xenon would rampage. Now split don't die til HOP kicks their sectors in and the xenon allocate more jobs up North. I really wanna find an "aggresive" xenon seed for a custom game
It’s all random. But if you have cradle of humanity I think invasions are more focused on certain sectors. HAT choice specifically. Just so much activity there.
I had a seed with my name as the seed and the hativka gate had a xenon station and defense station just the other side. They spit I’s and K’s till they overran that sector pretty fast. In under 7 hrs I think. Really f’d up my trade routes to have a xenon sector on the superhighway.
I think the H fills this roll. If they add another drone I’d want that to solely be with the Vig or Avarice factions. I think that would in line with lore and need for those two peoples.
So, why do cargo drones not bring material to the build storage? And why do Cargo drones not bring materials from one station to another, if they are in near proximity...?
i tried getting droneships to work. the main problem i faced was landing times. unless they changed something the drones start quickly to small ports but use the main docks to land. since the builder ships have very few ports it takes forever to land them again. During this time your builder is a sitting duck.
@@T-Skillet 193 drones in a line, 193 drones. Land one drone, wait some more , 192 drones in a line. 192 drones in a line, 192 drones. Land one drone, wait some more, 191 drones in a line.
LMAO!!!! That’s awesome! They are slow but with the drones I bet they work pretty well! I’ll use them to patrol second contact 7 or whatever….The Kha’ak are just too much.
@@T-Skillet legit i would load up a squad of ospreys with drones and have them screen for my argon carrier fleet. anything that doesnt survive gets mulched in my scrap factories.
You forgot the part, where drones get stuck launching, when you chose anything other but escort, and when set to escort, they don't really do anything... drones are very nice on paper, but they don't seem to work a lot of the time.
Since 7.0 I’ve had to be present at times but not every time for the drones to release. There are quirks to it and it can be a hassle. I do agree with that. I’ve seen them work in both instances of the patrol fleets and builder. With the patrol fleets the drones really just give the M class time to engage and destroy the enemy. For the builder…. I’ve seen half the swarm attack… I’ve seen a handful then I’ve seen the mass of drones descend on an enemy…. For the XL class it works…. Weird.
With the introduction of a drone carrier, I now feel justified to ask Egosoft if perhaps they could add a drone builder or even just separating the defense drones into interceptor and bomber drones, possibly with faction differences.
Well.... maybe not. All drones work the same and look the same. Would just have to model a different drone really. A kamikaze drone would be kick ass..... A drone with mines on it!!!
Okay well I guess that true…. But are you saying you wouldn’t want to see a drone with high explosive yield drift towards its target and see a bigger boom?!?! Missiles are like tiny booms.😂
I just subbed to you T-S. With reference to the Xenon H. When it was first produced, it was a terraforming machine and had a huge front weapon that it used for this terraforming. So why is it not in the game now? If you look at one in it's details if you've scanned one, it's not as though it can even hold a front weapon. I, my squad did, just found my first abandoned one so was excited to find one, but then a tad miffed about the lack of that front gun. Especially when the Xenon Ravager has one that'll devastate stations and the Obliterator has one that will melt stations.
I think its forward turret is pretty powerful. I've seen it: while viewing in the map, take out a group of Paranid Ares in short order. I can only assume the Xenon removed its terraforming weaponry.... you know.... for lore's sake.
So, testing time: I just tried adding a group of 5 drone Ospreys to one of my defense fleets... Turns out against the endgame crisis they suck big time. They are so slow, they all got picked off by the Xenon Grav turrets. Also a problem for AUX ships, had an Atlas that got wrecked. To be fair, the Xenon spawned really close to it so I need a rematch for that. But... The problem with drones is, you can't give them orders so unless they are already in range with an attack command, they will just sit around doing nothing. So drone carriers don't have the same carrier AI behaviour. For an AUX ship that stays far away out of combat, that won't work i don't think. As for builders... I get what you mean by a cheap defense force, but they are so incredibly slow it makes them useless as a mobile force, you can only really deploy them as a sector defense force. At which point you might as well have OP static defenses for that price... Could be fun sending a bunch of them into Xenon sectors to wreck havoc though. I need to try it with the Guppy and Carriers, to see if carriers use them like they do for fighters. Bear in mind that this test fight was against 3 Ks and 1 I, all close to one another - so not your usual fight scenario. Still, instead of losing up to 10 fighters, losing 4 Ospreys and an AUX ship was expensive... Next fight is in another 20mins I'm guessing so I will get a drone Guppy, a drone Shark, a Monitor
I haven’t come against the end game crisis yet. But I know those ships are pretty tough. I’m going to test the builder purchases in second contact flashpoint to hold that gate. Travel is the biggest problem. The ship isn’t fast so I’m thinking of shrinking control sphere and putting it a bit away from the gate.
@@T-Skillet Yeah that's the problem. Static gate defense is cheap and works wonders. Let me know if those builders work as OOS sector defense, I'm a bit doubtful 🤔... Laser towers are still OP 😎
There’s gonna be another video. The drones main job is a distraction for the enemy. Using the builder is kinda to see how it would work…. That a large mass of drones…. I’ll add a gorgon for additional turrets and see what happens. Either way it should be interesting.
I noticed that ships will use drones when put on escort mode. But then one Osprey changed sectors and now for some reason only has 1 drone. Doesn't seem viable for OOS operations, but I guess more testing is required. One thing is sure: the name "defense drones" is accurate, as I can't seem to field them offensively. I'm not sure if this is intended or what but the endgame crisis is throwing fleets at me so fast, even two sectors at once, so I need fast response teams. So perhaps as sector patrols it would work, assuming the ship restocks lost drones. Or if you fly it yourself as a personal ship.
There seems to be an issue when changing sectors with deployed drones…. They die or disappear… this happens with repair drone all the time. You’ll have to dock the drones then redeploy them in the new sector. It’s annoying.
Are you sure they work OOS in 7.0? I didn't look at patrols but I can say with certainty that stations don't deploy their defense drones out of sector. And the second you come IS, the station starts deploying them.
Well you might be right!🤔 I was oos last night got an alert about one of the Cerbs being attacked. It had its drones out but still got smoked. Then for a second time, another alert. I teleported to the ship… it had its drones out… but was still in the animation of releasing drones. Before 7.0 went live, I saw them work oos multiple times. But this time it’s like they just flew besides the ship… more investigation will be done! 🕵️♂️
The downer for drones OOS is that hit chance isn't factored in, and so drones are weak there, but possibly overpowered IS because flak or pulse lasers will miss a LOT, reducing the effective DPS. So what you may be seeing is that effect: the drones are 100% working OOS, but lost their major advantage in a fight (being eXtra Small) out of system and so going boom a lot more quickly.
Believe that’s what I saw in Phase 1 of operation fell swoop. However last night I saw them not engage at all… but I also witnessed ships being stuck after their commander was destroyed and being on mimic orders. I thought that was fixed in the beta… so 🤷🏻♂️ I’m going to watch them closely.
Please let me know if you see them working... I am having to continuously jump IS to save Antigone's shipyards from the Terran because they don't deploy any drones OOS 🙄 such an annoyance. So much so that I am thinking of declaring war on the Terrans instead of being the neutral warlord arms dealer.
Use beams In System to take out drones. Their DPS is terrible, doubly so if turreted, but they hit more often than even fast pulse lasers against drones. Against even small fighters, beams are so low in power they are fairly useless, but they don't have to do much damage to take out a drone. You can also use a fair number of turreted beams, even L turrets, not to do actual damage but against FIGHTERS ONLY to stop a fighter from regenning their shields. OOS it really doesn't take hit rate.
@@T-Skillet Potentially put "long range" on them, because it isn't the damage that matters, beams, even M class main battery beams are low, and a fixed % of a low number is still a low number (IMO the long range mod should be much longer range, and the radar range increase should be a LOT longer, up to double, but 50% would take it to 60km range, and you might put a few ships on that rather than "make thing go faster" for which it competes, and "up to 20%" doesn't compete with in the least). Even L turret beams, because they will stop fighters regenning shields at a much longer range than M turret beams, set to fighters only, and it is going to be "something else" that takes the actual fighter hull out, flak or fighters or whatever it might be). One of the worst targets are Xenon shipyards, they get LOADS of drones, and In System they will wreck badly, OOS they take time but are very little against destroyers in a fleet, though if it gets 20-1, even destroyers OOS get badly hit, but if you find something with turrets that hit targets behind you, you can get in one and bait drones while you fly away from them. You could also use laser turrets, those are equipped with beams, and the beams can be used to denude drones that fly nearby. It used to be LTs didn't work at all OOS, but they do now. It is just mines that won't work if you aren't looking at them (hence OOS, being a long long way away is the same as OOS). IMO beams should be a lot cheaper. They are a VERY niche weapon (you can potentially use them as anti-missile turrets too), and drones, doing very little against even S class fighters, and M class, even M class freighters are big enough that other turrets won't miss enough to matter, but they will do a LOT more damage. If beams were half the price, their niche placement and "you must have fighter license" requirements are such that you would only fit them if you had nothing better to do with the money or for that niche. IMO too Mk2 Burst Lasers should not be as heavily niched, so instead of 7x against subsystems, keep it to 5x, or even drop it to 4x, but make the base damage 50-100% higher, so you might pick the cheaper Mk1s for their specific niche, or for a slightly more general use, the more expensive Mk2s. I also think that the carriers are nerfed far too highly (and some others too) with their E class variants. In several cases the E class is fine, despite it being badly nerfed as a carrier, the Paranid carrier is a fast attack craft, and massively fast, but the Paranid one loses too many fighters to make it a carrier and garners too little to make up for it. Same for the E class freighters for the Argon, who don't gain enough carry capacity or speed to make up the loss of fighters or not using the almost as "fast" sentinel version instead. IMO the E class should get 50-100% more fighters of S class to count as a carrier. That MAY put the Zeus-E behind the Phoenix-E again, so you could up it, but alternatively you could make it cheaper or give it a few more forward facing turrets (but that would take a new model). Increasing is easier to manage than decreasing because nobody will bother to complain. The PhoenixE could be said to carry a lot of fighters, but it could be it is cheaper and the cheapest (and the strongest of the original three races) available or possibly up the speed, either works for the Teladi: their fighters are slow, so put them all on the Phoenix and it is more expensive but faster to carry them to a war front in a hurry. Or it could carry a lot of S class fighters. IMO that is less tenable, because with more shielding, teladi fighters are expensive. Their M class fighters are either the slow Osprey frigate or the fast (so not needed in a carrier) Peregrine. But it could carry more drones as well. The BehemothE should carry a LOT more small fighters, if it is double, probably "too much", but the argon are best zerg rushing with low cost shields and weapons to put a lot of targets and weapons/shields in the air at one time. But their M class Minotaur is far too slow too, so you could up the M class docking and then not increase the small fighter docks by more than 50% ish because the carrier is "meant" to carry the cheaper Argon S and M fighters and just overwhelm the target with lots and lots of cheap fighters. If the freighter E classes were as fast or faster than the Vanguard but carried as much as the Sentinel, then losing the fighter cutnpaste numbers that generally wasn't used anyway is "justified" and people would not (eventually) miss the outdated classes because for what it needs to "do its job" doesn't require 40 S class docks. The Destroyers are generally not a problem, they are faster, generally, so losing docking space is less of a problem but some are nerfed enough that for niche uses or "how people learned to play the game" it isn't worth using the E class because those 40 S class docks are far more valuable. As for the variants for builder, the newer versions should have dumped a LOT of the docking space. If the "old style" still carried 100 drones (30 builders, 5 repair, 65 defence) then having a TARDIS like 50 docks because of cutnpaste from carriers is a trade-off (not one you can physically justify, but a trade off). whilst the Teladi builder gets 245 or whatever drones (so 210 defence drones) but only 0 internal M docks and 4 internal S docks, well "all that space" is taken up with drones, and you have a choice: more docking or more drones? But when, because they replaced the already bought and extant Teladi (et al) builders with the new models, rather than E-class them to a new type, the builder can STILL get 10 M docks internally, the 245 drone complement is a no-brainer to go for. Same for Hercules, etc. If you can "choose" faster but lower drone complement over slower but more drones, fair enough, but it still leaves the old H looking builder lagging WAY behind, and really useless. I think that they either will delete docked ships if they cut the number of dock spaces (so can't reduce docking for extant ships), would get pilloried if they respawned the no-longer-fitting ships that used to be docked but no longer have the room, or would get pilloried and complained at if you could undock your 10 M class freighters but could only dock 2 back on before being full. A thing to note is that the Teladi M class freighters got buffed in cargo capacity (but original release version had ~6000 cargo units where after the 3.0 release it was up to ~10,000) so while the best "cargo x speed / price of mid preset" still is with the demeter, IMO, by upping the capacity 50%, the Vulture is no longer the worst freighter. In 3.0-6.0 the Mercury was above the Vulture, the Vulture was also much more expensive. Mind you, with its buff, the Vulture carries as much or more than the L freighter Split Buffalo, so that is kinda worthless, but the L freighters as a whole were kinda useless. I think those freighters should have garnered more drones, a lot more, to make up for the loss of S class docks, while I would balance the destroyers with double, possibly triple or more, docks for S fighters, because destroyers are weak against fighters, and a small complement of them would make them at least able to set the fighters to "defend against fighters" while it dealt with stations or capitals itself.
@@T-Skillet OOS missiles are just one per "round" and flares aren't used. As to the races, I'll only balance the OG 3 but they illustrate others, it is about finding what they are "supposed" to be used for and balance to that. The Teladi are defensive in military terms, and slow overall, especially with their freighters. Because most of the cost of a ship is via its bits, the two shields doubles the cost of shielding, and so for S craft, can't really be called "cheap" even if the frame were cheap, it would cost a lot to outfit it. So destroyers are all-round turreted items because they "intend" to get swarmed easily. The S class fighters are also slow but durable. So their carrier "should be" a place to put expensive engines to ferry those fighters to a distant front with the destroyers, drop them off quickly, and then back off from any direct threat, leaving "enough" to deal with close defence of the platform, so "plenty" of defence drones LTs and turrets for flies that get past the war front. The Paranid are fast enough to not need any carrier, and so there is no niche for a carrier, but if it were cheap and was just a way to get a pocket fleet of mixed M and S fighters along with a carrier to run close support for those fighters, there IS then a niche for them. They rely on making a target go boom before its shields drop and the hull goes away, and therefore there IS a niche for a "carrier" that merely is a method of getting fighters to disembark together, but the Boron filled that niche, and maybe the Paranid would copy it. The Argon are technically cheapest for fighters, but Mk3 shields and Mk2 weapons make the price of the frame irrelevant. The SOP for Argon ought to be to use Mk1 and maybe Mk2 for shields, but ZERG rush that cheap horde against any enemy, because the frame cost is really relevant if you use Mk1 stuff, and many Argon ships are cheap frames. It is for that reason their carrier should exist: a lot of docks for a large complement of fighters. That, however, won't work as long as the AI keeps sticking Mk3 stuff on if available. The cost slows down production, requires more "stuff" in storage, and the cheapness of the frames "explains" the poor performance of the ships, but being 100k cheaper might matter for a 300k purchase but it is irrelevant for a 5m purchase. If you look at them, the Minotaur is BY FAR the worst gunship. Slower than the Teladi version, but worse shielding. The Nova is very slightly better than the Falcon if they both have one shield, but the Falcon can carry a second shield, for twice the shielding and twice the regeneration. And everyone hates how bad the Elite is: armed like its a scout, slow like its a heavy fighter, its turn rate was high, but not enough to make anyone WANT to be in one. And the Callisto would have made a much better "Jack of All Trades" Young Gun start, carries 1000 units, two guns, looks like the old M4 from the earlier games, and as a starter cheap ship, its low speed wasn't bad in toto. But the turn rate is what kills it, as being freighter levels of turn, you DO NOT want to be in battle with anything that is military, and as a starter ship, you want to be able to at least potter about with it in combat. If I were the owner, I'd make the turn rate 50% higher, roughly, and make the Young Gun start in the Callisto. The Elite is still terrible, and only worth having as the PHQ sacrifice, but those are the minimum changes that at least let people like the Young Gun start. As I see it, the Teladi have a niche: slow and well shielded, whilst the Paranid are fast and deadly, but there is no niche or use for the Argon, and if you are building a fleet of ships, there are very few Argon ships you'll bother buying blueprints for yourself. IMO put a non-replacable missile launcher on some Argon ships that are well down the list of useful ships, and it balances. A fixed use missile launcher "built in" to the Elite makes it have a niche as a useful learning tool (why replace your one single gun with something you need missiles and therefore run out of? But a new player you want to learn how to use missiles, not "oh, loot I can sell!"), put one in the Nova and you can get more speed with the Perseus or more shields with the Falcon, but a missile launcher is potentially worth as much as either of those (you don't need to be fast if the missile is doing the running, and that missile can be more DPS and therefore more aggressive than a shield to tank hits while you pewpew), and the Minotaur (though I'd make it able to carry more missiles too), making it once again a Bomber and so filling a niche that the Peregrine doesn't get by default, you can sacrifice a gun for a missile if you want, but then it becomes an extra shield and more speed for an "extra gun", the Peregrine still wins IMO, but the gap is closed. Give the Callisto a turn rate that puts it in the bottom end of the scout class (but without the speed of any scout class), and it becomes a nice little cargo runner that can turn the tables on one or two pirates trying to hold it up, and so fits ITS niche. Both the Paranid and Split versions carry two guns too, and more cargo space, but due to the slower turn rate, aren't as nice to combat in, so it still fits. Tides have an "I win" fighter and there are a few "sortof" freighters for pirates that hit HARD, both in Dukes and Avarice. The Terrans miss out because their stuff is expensive. But being behind a hard wall of capitals it has time to build up forces, but ignoring cost, Terran stuff is good or best in its class. Split are "all fighter pilots" which makes them fail often because a Split M freighter can't fight, but since it has a suicidal pilot, it goes boom, reducing the ability for cargo to be sold or brought in, and removing a lot of resources spread over space. However, its fighters are top notch boom boxes, it just requires the resources to MAKE them, and it ain't so good at that. The Borons were almost entirely against fighters, so even their capital ships were OP against fighters, but get badly bodied by capital ships and stations, and now the gates are open, it is going to have to face capital ships. Before the gates, the carrier was just a way to plonk a lot of Baracuda at the drop off point, so it was fast, the Barracuda didn't need to be fast, but they DID benefit from being twisty.
There's a mod on nexus called drone variety. Adds 5 new types of drones. 2 of them are bombers that shoot missiles/ torpedoes. Some of them even have shields....you're welcome.❤
I'll be honest here. I never liked frigates in x4. Yeah, they can carry a fighter and they can do all the things a gunship can do as well. But I never liked them. In my head, they were just another corvette-variant that is chunky and just adds a weird looking landing pad. (I don't like the on board landing pads in x4. The Borons are the first I really like). But then I saw how many drones you can put on a frigate. This was a few years back now. And suddenly this clunky ship barely able to hold of a few fighters became a menace. Espeically when the drones were on anything but "defend". Cheap and relatively big patrols. Fit to engage all kinds of minor threats, be it small Xenon incursions or Kha'ak or the occasional pirate. They are freaking effective and they stock up on drones themselves again. It's a fire and forget-type of patrol. And yeah, I started looking what else I could use as base for drones. Heck, you can put these things on so many other things. They are the unsung hero of dog-fighting.
Landing bay box with discount wings attached. They look really bad. I gotta look into getting into X4 modding, I've got a degree in 3d, animation and VFX, surely I can fix them and make em look pretty. Alot of ships in X4 just don't look substantial enough imo. The buffalo looks great with it's landing bad though for example. I'd argue even the raptor looks weird because it's supposed to be a carrier and sure it's got the long landing strip but it feels like there isn't any space in the volume of the ship for all the things the ship would need, feels like it ought to be chunkier somewhere
Well... I haven't seen the builder take on a K..... But for what i have seen so far..... I think its a monster! PE's, M'S and SE's haven stood a change.
i have tried this, your not going to like the outcome. drones get shot down fast and they gcant handle much damage. nice video and you have lots of logic here, but sadly drones need a lot of love for this to be viable.
So after the follow up video I placed the ship and drones near a more active xenon gate. So far against a decent swarm only lost 13 of the 243 drones. I did change the turrets so it functions better but still quirky. It has been an unexpected surprise for sure.
It's pretty viable and quick to reload, you can do it early off cheap piracy to stop xenon while you dick around not building your econ early cause lazy / RP
gotta be honest I wasn't with you at first, but you changed me mind with that albatross loadout. like I could afford that right now, and I barely havean S/M fleet, a couple dozen strong. no L or XL
It’s not ideal but it is a great stop gap measure! I’m really surprised by it though. After the follow up video I move it to a more active xenon gate and even with a decent swarm only lost 13 drones.
Easiest way is through the Timelines DLC. Other than that…. Your own personal ship with a single marine. It is a reward from Timelines, waiting abandoned for you in Tharak’s Cascade above Hatikvah’s Choice. If you board one you might have to fight M’s, N’s, PE’s along with its drones and turrets.
This blew my mind, I never thought the builders would spit out defense drones en masse but it makes sense. Now we got a discount carrier. When you want a raptor and mum says we got a raptor at home, it's an elephant with 135 defense drones. Excited for the follow up🎉 Hope nobody gets any wild ideas and say, makes a mod that increases drone capacity on builders, that would be craaayyyzzzeeee
Yes they do!! The Patrol ships use them pretty frequently. However I will say if the enemy is a swarm the patrol ships and drones have their work cut out for them.
I get that! That’s why I haven’t up till recently when I realized Escort mode made a difference. Having the drones ready for combat is a god send. No more releasing them one at a time.
I would perfer a raptor any time just because of its pure firepower. Also M-class dronecarryers are not that great for me because they launch theyr drones holaryously slow.🤷
@@abitterdraft You do.... But sometimes they just disappear and then you can move on.... Yeah they vanish into space, never to be seen again.... Idk why or how but it happens sometimes. Witnessed it twice.
I’ve never done drone combat from stations…. I’m curious how different they act. But I will say drones from a ship don’t always work the way I think they should. Sometimes they are slow or a handful will get the order to attack but the rest won’t. I’ve actually just packed them all up at this point. Universe is running out of Xenon.
Mum can we buy a raptor carrier?
Mum: we got a raptor carrier at home
But muuuuum! That one needs a friend! XD
Also worth noting, aside from the discount carrier, alot of other ships have at least some drone space and its worthwhile sticking defense drones on them. Setting def drones to escort will launch them all, so as long as you do it a min before combat, you can have larger ships with cheap small squadrons. It may seem superflous but those 10 or 20 drones do a really good job at pinning down craft so that medium turrets on the capitals can hit them with flak and co. It makes lone capitals alot less vulnerable to being swarmed by small craft they cant hit
They provide a good distraction so the more capable ships can lock in and destroy the target
I loved the way drones where implemented in x rebirth
Ypu had diferent kinds of, depending on ur budget
And tbh, a swarm of cost-efective drones sounds waay more realistic and usefull than a full fleet of man-piloted expensive fighters
Right!!! I never played rebirth. But maybe I should pick it up!
@@T-Skillet if u i spire urself on the modern warfare, like carriers are, u could base the drone efectiveness and combat capabilities on the crew skills
While fighters could stay as a special task force wing used for more specific and surgical ops
Drones are the disposable meat to throw in droves for antifighter, defense and distraction
U could even have special kamikaze drones to destroy especific targets and make a hole in the hull of the ship or station
So much potential unused with the drones and the misiles that was in the x rebirth
That game received way more hate than it deserved, i loved it
I honestly never played it because of the negative reviews.... Now i feel bad
@@T-Skillet dont be
The game received a lot of hate because it got rid of the capacity to use diferent ships, as well as being full.of bugs
U were always in the same ship, the albion skunk, which was highly moddable
But that game was a valiant effort to try and make something different, which i apreciated
Tbh, i feel like the x series could be defined as massivw potenciality but too litle resources (staff and money) to make it happen
Well hopefully they see this and see they are held in high regard. I do feel the same!
I fkn love these let's talks! They're awesome please continue!
There will be more! Gotta follow up on that builder…. Just waiting for him to move into position…. He is a little slow. 😂
The drone cost difference has to do with how well funded the warf or shipyard is. Early mid game, i use satellite and drone cost differences between shipyards to quickly make money. Buy 450 satellite mkII's at one yard for $40-50k each, then sell them for $70-80k at another. I do variations of that trade 2 or 3 times before I start building my real station infrastructure.
That is an easy way to make money, advanced satellites! Never thought about reselling drones. 🤔
@@T-Skillet I used an auxiliary as my drone ship before the H was added, I like the H more. But the aux can normally carry 100 drones plus 450 satellites. "To maximize profffiiitttssss
😦 Gotta do that!
Monitor is my go to for drone carriers. Reasonable shields, reasonable turret output, an 100 drones...but the kicker is the 8 s pads. It just takes too long to load 100+ drones with a single pad.
I’m gonna ask you to post this again on the new video dropping today. It’s a follow up, since the current play through is set in base game I don’t see the stats for Split, Borron, or Terrans. That’s good info to know!!!
My latest playthrough I got lucky and pirated an Aux early on and made it my home base. Their launch tubes can spit out drones too, in fact I think that's all those tubes are for.
I’m very curious to see how this builder does. That a lot of drones!
Yep, drones. I imagine the conventional use would be for launching repair drones and repairing multiple L class at the same time, but we can close an eye on that.
I just learned this on the forums and I had to tell you: you can install the Garage mod on S ships, giving them drone capacity. Meaning you can ferry repair drones to any newly-capped L ship!
Can also sequester repair drones so they won't deploy in combat.
Glad more people are discovering the albatross. Sadly, it doesn't have launch tubes to speed up deployment, and recovery takes forever.. There are a few unusual ships with launch tubes, but most of them are not exactly good. Also consider that Laser Tower Mk II is launched by hangar/tube, individually, and not just dumped en-masse like Mk Is.
I wish there was a faster way to deploy towers as well. Or that there was a general order for a ship to deploy them.
@@T-Skillet Absolutely. If we weren't meant to mass deploy them, why let us carry hundreds of them?
But overall, I can't help but feel we could be having a much better game if only a few tweaks were made to turrets (so that they actually have useful roles), missiles, deployables, L/XL engines, etc.
Even Fleet orders... Fighters target fighter, target missiles, etc. But I do agree, only a handful of changes could make a world of difference. Very watchful for the 7.5 update. I feel that can just change the way players actually play.
Might I suggest that you don't have any Illegal Items on yourself while you have your drones out or armed like I did and have the police send the whole sector after you because your drones are trying to protect you and have yourself wondering why the whole faction is trying to kill you because they just killed the security police lol, and then have to reload your game hours and hours back ugh!!. :D .
I’m sorry that happened! That sucks. I’ve been there. If you just ride as a passenger and the pilot doesn’t have any items in his inventory…. Especially illegal ones you’ll be find. lol
...why not set the automatic save to a shorter timespan 🤔
Good point…. I don’t even mess with that setting lol find it annoying already!
...and just for fun, if you park (manually order to dock) a Jian with it's 6 turrets set to attack all enemies every ship with a (otherwise unused) M dock gets a real mean flak. Enjoy 🍺😁
Price difference is most likely because of the amount of resources on the station.
I like the idea of using builders as drone-carriers (Protoss anyone?). Also swarm missiiles are better and adding towers is also good. I outfit my fighters with towers for the extra pew.
Hmm…. Wonder if that it true. L miners and traders always need drones. So the supply could be different for sure.
The problem with the Albatross is that it doesn't have a dedicated outlet for launching drones.
This results in Albatross relying on the only S platform to deliver defense drones.
Other builders may also have this problem.
If someone thinks that there is no need to recycle drones, then 243 defense drones are indeed very suitable for you.
All the builder have roughly the same issue with deploying drones especially for this purpose. To be more effective you need to have them released before entering your desired position for them. Then put it into place.
But even the Cerberus and like ships have an issue with deploying drones. As of typing this out I’m not sure it’s fixed but sometimes they won’t deploy if you’re not present. Which is a pain.
I didn't notice that drones had started working out of sector, that's the one thing that's really stopped me from playing around with them
The thing that made me want to do this video WAS seeing drones work.Making the H an alternative to a carrier. But I noticed some issues last night. I’m going to investigate further.
I would've never imagined that those always-dying Argon and Paranid Builders in Second Contact could actually repel any incomer if stocked properly!
The Paranod probably has the best survivability. I just assume turret placement is better with it.
Excited to see how the Lizardboy ship will do!
Reminds me why I used to pirate aux and construction ships early back when xenon would rampage. Now split don't die til HOP kicks their sectors in and the xenon allocate more jobs up North. I really wanna find an "aggresive" xenon seed for a custom game
It’s all random. But if you have cradle of humanity I think invasions are more focused on certain sectors. HAT choice specifically. Just so much activity there.
I had a seed with my name as the seed and the hativka gate had a xenon station and defense station just the other side. They spit I’s and K’s till they overran that sector pretty fast. In under 7 hrs I think. Really f’d up my trade routes to have a xenon sector on the superhighway.
I would love for a following game update to focus in on more fleshed out drones and dedicated drone ships. Was my favourite aspect of EVE online.
I think the H fills this roll.
If they add another drone I’d want that to solely be with the Vig or Avarice factions. I think that would in line with lore and need for those two peoples.
So, why do cargo drones not bring material to the build storage? And why do Cargo drones not bring materials from one station to another, if they are in near proximity...?
Uhmm…. 🤔hmm…. That’s a good question cause traffic can go from one station to another.
They do ferry resources between nearby stations if conditions are met. Do a search, I've read about it in a few places.
i tried getting droneships to work. the main problem i faced was landing times. unless they changed something the drones start quickly to small ports but use the main docks to land. since the builder ships have very few ports it takes forever to land them again. During this time your builder is a sitting duck.
Yep! I can’t wait to wait for 243 drones to be released one at a time….. SETA!!! Lol
@@T-Skillet
193 drones in a line, 193 drones.
Land one drone, wait some more , 192 drones in a line.
192 drones in a line, 192 drones.
Land one drone, wait some more, 191 drones in a line.
Old comment, but just wanted to mention that drones can now use the launch tubes to dock.
@@rune1234rune i have seen videos with drones undocking from the launch tubes, but never seen them docking.
@@Hardie86 It's a new feature in 7.0
i been using ospreys as drone carriers since that old torp vid.
LMAO!!!! That’s awesome! They are slow but with the drones I bet they work pretty well! I’ll use them to patrol second contact 7 or whatever….The Kha’ak are just too much.
@@T-Skillet legit i would load up a squad of ospreys with drones and have them screen for my argon carrier fleet. anything that doesnt survive gets mulched in my scrap factories.
You forgot the part, where drones get stuck launching, when you chose anything other but escort, and when set to escort, they don't really do anything... drones are very nice on paper, but they don't seem to work a lot of the time.
Since 7.0 I’ve had to be present at times but not every time for the drones to release. There are quirks to it and it can be a hassle. I do agree with that. I’ve seen them work in both instances of the patrol fleets and builder. With the patrol fleets the drones really just give the M class time to engage and destroy the enemy. For the builder…. I’ve seen half the swarm attack… I’ve seen a handful then I’ve seen the mass of drones descend on an enemy…. For the XL class it works…. Weird.
With the introduction of a drone carrier, I now feel justified to ask Egosoft if perhaps they could add a drone builder or even just separating the defense drones into interceptor and bomber drones, possibly with faction differences.
Well.... maybe not. All drones work the same and look the same. Would just have to model a different drone really. A kamikaze drone would be kick ass..... A drone with mines on it!!!
@@T-Skilletthats called missile.
Okay well I guess that true…. But are you saying you wouldn’t want to see a drone with high explosive yield drift towards its target and see a bigger boom?!?! Missiles are like tiny booms.😂
@@T-Skillet i want the terran conflict missile attack ships. Yknow. With the actual cruise missiles.
@@T-Skillet Effectively any Xenon would be such a "mined drone".
I just subbed to you T-S.
With reference to the Xenon H. When it was first produced, it was a terraforming machine and had a huge front weapon that it used for this terraforming.
So why is it not in the game now? If you look at one in it's details if you've scanned one, it's not as though it can even hold a front weapon. I, my squad did, just found my first abandoned one so was excited to find one, but then a tad miffed about the lack of that front gun.
Especially when the Xenon Ravager has one that'll devastate stations and the Obliterator has one that will melt stations.
I think its forward turret is pretty powerful. I've seen it: while viewing in the map, take out a group of Paranid Ares in short order. I can only assume the Xenon removed its terraforming weaponry.... you know.... for lore's sake.
So, testing time: I just tried adding a group of 5 drone Ospreys to one of my defense fleets... Turns out against the endgame crisis they suck big time. They are so slow, they all got picked off by the Xenon Grav turrets.
Also a problem for AUX ships, had an Atlas that got wrecked. To be fair, the Xenon spawned really close to it so I need a rematch for that. But...
The problem with drones is, you can't give them orders so unless they are already in range with an attack command, they will just sit around doing nothing. So drone carriers don't have the same carrier AI behaviour. For an AUX ship that stays far away out of combat, that won't work i don't think.
As for builders... I get what you mean by a cheap defense force, but they are so incredibly slow it makes them useless as a mobile force, you can only really deploy them as a sector defense force. At which point you might as well have OP static defenses for that price... Could be fun sending a bunch of them into Xenon sectors to wreck havoc though.
I need to try it with the Guppy and Carriers, to see if carriers use them like they do for fighters.
Bear in mind that this test fight was against 3 Ks and 1 I, all close to one another - so not your usual fight scenario.
Still, instead of losing up to 10 fighters, losing 4 Ospreys and an AUX ship was expensive...
Next fight is in another 20mins I'm guessing so I will get a drone Guppy, a drone Shark, a Monitor
I haven’t come against the end game crisis yet. But I know those ships are pretty tough. I’m going to test the builder purchases in second contact flashpoint to hold that gate.
Travel is the biggest problem. The ship isn’t fast so I’m thinking of shrinking control sphere and putting it a bit away from the gate.
@@T-Skillet Yeah that's the problem. Static gate defense is cheap and works wonders. Let me know if those builders work as OOS sector defense, I'm a bit doubtful 🤔...
Laser towers are still OP 😎
There’s gonna be another video. The drones main job is a distraction for the enemy. Using the builder is kinda to see how it would work…. That a large mass of drones…. I’ll add a gorgon for additional turrets and see what happens. Either way it should be interesting.
I noticed that ships will use drones when put on escort mode. But then one Osprey changed sectors and now for some reason only has 1 drone. Doesn't seem viable for OOS operations, but I guess more testing is required.
One thing is sure: the name "defense drones" is accurate, as I can't seem to field them offensively. I'm not sure if this is intended or what but the endgame crisis is throwing fleets at me so fast, even two sectors at once, so I need fast response teams.
So perhaps as sector patrols it would work, assuming the ship restocks lost drones. Or if you fly it yourself as a personal ship.
There seems to be an issue when changing sectors with deployed drones…. They die or disappear… this happens with repair drone all the time. You’ll have to dock the drones then redeploy them in the new sector.
It’s annoying.
Are you sure they work OOS in 7.0? I didn't look at patrols but I can say with certainty that stations don't deploy their defense drones out of sector. And the second you come IS, the station starts deploying them.
Well you might be right!🤔 I was oos last night got an alert about one of the Cerbs being attacked. It had its drones out but still got smoked. Then for a second time, another alert. I teleported to the ship… it had its drones out… but was still in the animation of releasing drones.
Before 7.0 went live, I saw them work oos multiple times. But this time it’s like they just flew besides the ship… more investigation will be done! 🕵️♂️
The downer for drones OOS is that hit chance isn't factored in, and so drones are weak there, but possibly overpowered IS because flak or pulse lasers will miss a LOT, reducing the effective DPS. So what you may be seeing is that effect: the drones are 100% working OOS, but lost their major advantage in a fight (being eXtra Small) out of system and so going boom a lot more quickly.
Believe that’s what I saw in Phase 1 of operation fell swoop. However last night I saw them not engage at all… but I also witnessed ships being stuck after their commander was destroyed and being on mimic orders. I thought that was fixed in the beta… so 🤷🏻♂️
I’m going to watch them closely.
Please let me know if you see them working... I am having to continuously jump IS to save Antigone's shipyards from the Terran because they don't deploy any drones OOS 🙄 such an annoyance. So much so that I am thinking of declaring war on the Terrans instead of being the neutral warlord arms dealer.
Use beams In System to take out drones. Their DPS is terrible, doubly so if turreted, but they hit more often than even fast pulse lasers against drones. Against even small fighters, beams are so low in power they are fairly useless, but they don't have to do much damage to take out a drone.
You can also use a fair number of turreted beams, even L turrets, not to do actual damage but against FIGHTERS ONLY to stop a fighter from regenning their shields. OOS it really doesn't take hit rate.
So you’re suggesting swap the missiles for lasers or pulse? Other than missiles they’d have the furthest range I believe.
@@T-Skillet Potentially put "long range" on them, because it isn't the damage that matters, beams, even M class main battery beams are low, and a fixed % of a low number is still a low number (IMO the long range mod should be much longer range, and the radar range increase should be a LOT longer, up to double, but 50% would take it to 60km range, and you might put a few ships on that rather than "make thing go faster" for which it competes, and "up to 20%" doesn't compete with in the least). Even L turret beams, because they will stop fighters regenning shields at a much longer range than M turret beams, set to fighters only, and it is going to be "something else" that takes the actual fighter hull out, flak or fighters or whatever it might be).
One of the worst targets are Xenon shipyards, they get LOADS of drones, and In System they will wreck badly, OOS they take time but are very little against destroyers in a fleet, though if it gets 20-1, even destroyers OOS get badly hit, but if you find something with turrets that hit targets behind you, you can get in one and bait drones while you fly away from them. You could also use laser turrets, those are equipped with beams, and the beams can be used to denude drones that fly nearby. It used to be LTs didn't work at all OOS, but they do now. It is just mines that won't work if you aren't looking at them (hence OOS, being a long long way away is the same as OOS).
IMO beams should be a lot cheaper. They are a VERY niche weapon (you can potentially use them as anti-missile turrets too), and drones, doing very little against even S class fighters, and M class, even M class freighters are big enough that other turrets won't miss enough to matter, but they will do a LOT more damage. If beams were half the price, their niche placement and "you must have fighter license" requirements are such that you would only fit them if you had nothing better to do with the money or for that niche. IMO too Mk2 Burst Lasers should not be as heavily niched, so instead of 7x against subsystems, keep it to 5x, or even drop it to 4x, but make the base damage 50-100% higher, so you might pick the cheaper Mk1s for their specific niche, or for a slightly more general use, the more expensive Mk2s.
I also think that the carriers are nerfed far too highly (and some others too) with their E class variants. In several cases the E class is fine, despite it being badly nerfed as a carrier, the Paranid carrier is a fast attack craft, and massively fast, but the Paranid one loses too many fighters to make it a carrier and garners too little to make up for it. Same for the E class freighters for the Argon, who don't gain enough carry capacity or speed to make up the loss of fighters or not using the almost as "fast" sentinel version instead.
IMO the E class should get 50-100% more fighters of S class to count as a carrier. That MAY put the Zeus-E behind the Phoenix-E again, so you could up it, but alternatively you could make it cheaper or give it a few more forward facing turrets (but that would take a new model). Increasing is easier to manage than decreasing because nobody will bother to complain.
The PhoenixE could be said to carry a lot of fighters, but it could be it is cheaper and the cheapest (and the strongest of the original three races) available or possibly up the speed, either works for the Teladi: their fighters are slow, so put them all on the Phoenix and it is more expensive but faster to carry them to a war front in a hurry. Or it could carry a lot of S class fighters. IMO that is less tenable, because with more shielding, teladi fighters are expensive. Their M class fighters are either the slow Osprey frigate or the fast (so not needed in a carrier) Peregrine. But it could carry more drones as well.
The BehemothE should carry a LOT more small fighters, if it is double, probably "too much", but the argon are best zerg rushing with low cost shields and weapons to put a lot of targets and weapons/shields in the air at one time. But their M class Minotaur is far too slow too, so you could up the M class docking and then not increase the small fighter docks by more than 50% ish because the carrier is "meant" to carry the cheaper Argon S and M fighters and just overwhelm the target with lots and lots of cheap fighters.
If the freighter E classes were as fast or faster than the Vanguard but carried as much as the Sentinel, then losing the fighter cutnpaste numbers that generally wasn't used anyway is "justified" and people would not (eventually) miss the outdated classes because for what it needs to "do its job" doesn't require 40 S class docks.
The Destroyers are generally not a problem, they are faster, generally, so losing docking space is less of a problem but some are nerfed enough that for niche uses or "how people learned to play the game" it isn't worth using the E class because those 40 S class docks are far more valuable.
As for the variants for builder, the newer versions should have dumped a LOT of the docking space. If the "old style" still carried 100 drones (30 builders, 5 repair, 65 defence) then having a TARDIS like 50 docks because of cutnpaste from carriers is a trade-off (not one you can physically justify, but a trade off). whilst the Teladi builder gets 245 or whatever drones (so 210 defence drones) but only 0 internal M docks and 4 internal S docks, well "all that space" is taken up with drones, and you have a choice: more docking or more drones? But when, because they replaced the already bought and extant Teladi (et al) builders with the new models, rather than E-class them to a new type, the builder can STILL get 10 M docks internally, the 245 drone complement is a no-brainer to go for. Same for Hercules, etc. If you can "choose" faster but lower drone complement over slower but more drones, fair enough, but it still leaves the old H looking builder lagging WAY behind, and really useless.
I think that they either will delete docked ships if they cut the number of dock spaces (so can't reduce docking for extant ships), would get pilloried if they respawned the no-longer-fitting ships that used to be docked but no longer have the room, or would get pilloried and complained at if you could undock your 10 M class freighters but could only dock 2 back on before being full.
A thing to note is that the Teladi M class freighters got buffed in cargo capacity (but original release version had ~6000 cargo units where after the 3.0 release it was up to ~10,000) so while the best "cargo x speed / price of mid preset" still is with the demeter, IMO, by upping the capacity 50%, the Vulture is no longer the worst freighter. In 3.0-6.0 the Mercury was above the Vulture, the Vulture was also much more expensive. Mind you, with its buff, the Vulture carries as much or more than the L freighter Split Buffalo, so that is kinda worthless, but the L freighters as a whole were kinda useless. I think those freighters should have garnered more drones, a lot more, to make up for the loss of S class docks, while I would balance the destroyers with double, possibly triple or more, docks for S fighters, because destroyers are weak against fighters, and a small complement of them would make them at least able to set the fighters to "defend against fighters" while it dealt with stations or capitals itself.
@@T-Skillet OOS missiles are just one per "round" and flares aren't used.
As to the races, I'll only balance the OG 3 but they illustrate others, it is about finding what they are "supposed" to be used for and balance to that.
The Teladi are defensive in military terms, and slow overall, especially with their freighters. Because most of the cost of a ship is via its bits, the two shields doubles the cost of shielding, and so for S craft, can't really be called "cheap" even if the frame were cheap, it would cost a lot to outfit it. So destroyers are all-round turreted items because they "intend" to get swarmed easily. The S class fighters are also slow but durable. So their carrier "should be" a place to put expensive engines to ferry those fighters to a distant front with the destroyers, drop them off quickly, and then back off from any direct threat, leaving "enough" to deal with close defence of the platform, so "plenty" of defence drones LTs and turrets for flies that get past the war front.
The Paranid are fast enough to not need any carrier, and so there is no niche for a carrier, but if it were cheap and was just a way to get a pocket fleet of mixed M and S fighters along with a carrier to run close support for those fighters, there IS then a niche for them. They rely on making a target go boom before its shields drop and the hull goes away, and therefore there IS a niche for a "carrier" that merely is a method of getting fighters to disembark together, but the Boron filled that niche, and maybe the Paranid would copy it.
The Argon are technically cheapest for fighters, but Mk3 shields and Mk2 weapons make the price of the frame irrelevant. The SOP for Argon ought to be to use Mk1 and maybe Mk2 for shields, but ZERG rush that cheap horde against any enemy, because the frame cost is really relevant if you use Mk1 stuff, and many Argon ships are cheap frames. It is for that reason their carrier should exist: a lot of docks for a large complement of fighters. That, however, won't work as long as the AI keeps sticking Mk3 stuff on if available. The cost slows down production, requires more "stuff" in storage, and the cheapness of the frames "explains" the poor performance of the ships, but being 100k cheaper might matter for a 300k purchase but it is irrelevant for a 5m purchase. If you look at them, the Minotaur is BY FAR the worst gunship. Slower than the Teladi version, but worse shielding. The Nova is very slightly better than the Falcon if they both have one shield, but the Falcon can carry a second shield, for twice the shielding and twice the regeneration. And everyone hates how bad the Elite is: armed like its a scout, slow like its a heavy fighter, its turn rate was high, but not enough to make anyone WANT to be in one. And the Callisto would have made a much better "Jack of All Trades" Young Gun start, carries 1000 units, two guns, looks like the old M4 from the earlier games, and as a starter cheap ship, its low speed wasn't bad in toto. But the turn rate is what kills it, as being freighter levels of turn, you DO NOT want to be in battle with anything that is military, and as a starter ship, you want to be able to at least potter about with it in combat. If I were the owner, I'd make the turn rate 50% higher, roughly, and make the Young Gun start in the Callisto. The Elite is still terrible, and only worth having as the PHQ sacrifice, but those are the minimum changes that at least let people like the Young Gun start.
As I see it, the Teladi have a niche: slow and well shielded, whilst the Paranid are fast and deadly, but there is no niche or use for the Argon, and if you are building a fleet of ships, there are very few Argon ships you'll bother buying blueprints for yourself. IMO put a non-replacable missile launcher on some Argon ships that are well down the list of useful ships, and it balances. A fixed use missile launcher "built in" to the Elite makes it have a niche as a useful learning tool (why replace your one single gun with something you need missiles and therefore run out of? But a new player you want to learn how to use missiles, not "oh, loot I can sell!"), put one in the Nova and you can get more speed with the Perseus or more shields with the Falcon, but a missile launcher is potentially worth as much as either of those (you don't need to be fast if the missile is doing the running, and that missile can be more DPS and therefore more aggressive than a shield to tank hits while you pewpew), and the Minotaur (though I'd make it able to carry more missiles too), making it once again a Bomber and so filling a niche that the Peregrine doesn't get by default, you can sacrifice a gun for a missile if you want, but then it becomes an extra shield and more speed for an "extra gun", the Peregrine still wins IMO, but the gap is closed. Give the Callisto a turn rate that puts it in the bottom end of the scout class (but without the speed of any scout class), and it becomes a nice little cargo runner that can turn the tables on one or two pirates trying to hold it up, and so fits ITS niche. Both the Paranid and Split versions carry two guns too, and more cargo space, but due to the slower turn rate, aren't as nice to combat in, so it still fits.
Tides have an "I win" fighter and there are a few "sortof" freighters for pirates that hit HARD, both in Dukes and Avarice. The Terrans miss out because their stuff is expensive. But being behind a hard wall of capitals it has time to build up forces, but ignoring cost, Terran stuff is good or best in its class. Split are "all fighter pilots" which makes them fail often because a Split M freighter can't fight, but since it has a suicidal pilot, it goes boom, reducing the ability for cargo to be sold or brought in, and removing a lot of resources spread over space. However, its fighters are top notch boom boxes, it just requires the resources to MAKE them, and it ain't so good at that. The Borons were almost entirely against fighters, so even their capital ships were OP against fighters, but get badly bodied by capital ships and stations, and now the gates are open, it is going to have to face capital ships. Before the gates, the carrier was just a way to plonk a lot of Baracuda at the drop off point, so it was fast, the Barracuda didn't need to be fast, but they DID benefit from being twisty.
There's a mod on nexus called drone variety. Adds 5 new types of drones. 2 of them are bombers that shoot missiles/ torpedoes. Some of them even have shields....you're welcome.❤
That’s awesome!! Thank you for the information.
Just some feedback,
As a newcomer to the channel, the start of this video is kinda aggressive and I almost turned the video off. 😂
Thank you for the feed back! Hope you liked the rest. 😂
I'll be honest here. I never liked frigates in x4. Yeah, they can carry a fighter and they can do all the things a gunship can do as well. But I never liked them. In my head, they were just another corvette-variant that is chunky and just adds a weird looking landing pad. (I don't like the on board landing pads in x4. The Borons are the first I really like).
But then I saw how many drones you can put on a frigate. This was a few years back now. And suddenly this clunky ship barely able to hold of a few fighters became a menace. Espeically when the drones were on anything but "defend".
Cheap and relatively big patrols. Fit to engage all kinds of minor threats, be it small Xenon incursions or Kha'ak or the occasional pirate. They are freaking effective and they stock up on drones themselves again. It's a fire and forget-type of patrol.
And yeah, I started looking what else I could use as base for drones. Heck, you can put these things on so many other things. They are the unsung hero of dog-fighting.
Feel the same way about most M class ships.
Landing bay box with discount wings attached. They look really bad. I gotta look into getting into X4 modding, I've got a degree in 3d, animation and VFX, surely I can fix them and make em look pretty.
Alot of ships in X4 just don't look substantial enough imo. The buffalo looks great with it's landing bad though for example. I'd argue even the raptor looks weird because it's supposed to be a carrier and sure it's got the long landing strip but it feels like there isn't any space in the volume of the ship for all the things the ship would need, feels like it ought to be chunkier somewhere
I see the AI fleets throw constructors into battle against Xenon all the time. I thought it was crazy. But I guess it works.
Well... I haven't seen the builder take on a K..... But for what i have seen so far..... I think its a monster! PE's, M'S and SE's haven stood a change.
your videos are awesome. def worth it to ask for subscribers with the work you put in making these
Thank you for the kind words! I really appreciate it.
i have tried this, your not going to like the outcome. drones get shot down fast and they gcant handle much damage. nice video and you have lots of logic here, but sadly drones need a lot of love for this to be viable.
So after the follow up video I placed the ship and drones near a more active xenon gate. So far against a decent swarm only lost 13 of the 243 drones. I did change the turrets so it functions better but still quirky. It has been an unexpected surprise for sure.
It's pretty viable and quick to reload, you can do it early off cheap piracy to stop xenon while you dick around not building your econ early cause lazy / RP
FYI, detectives would smoke vapes these days
Do they still dress in trench coats and wonder the city on dark stormy nights?
@@T-Skillet only when larping COC.
gotta be honest I wasn't with you at first, but you changed me mind with that albatross loadout. like I could afford that right now, and I barely havean S/M fleet, a couple dozen strong. no L or XL
It’s not ideal but it is a great stop gap measure! I’m really surprised by it though. After the follow up video I move it to a more active xenon gate and even with a decent swarm only lost 13 drones.
So how do you go get an H these days?
Easiest way is through the Timelines DLC. Other than that…. Your own personal ship with a single marine.
It is a reward from Timelines, waiting abandoned for you in Tharak’s Cascade above Hatikvah’s Choice.
If you board one you might have to fight M’s, N’s, PE’s along with its drones and turrets.
Nowdays u gonna need 16 5star marines with all its turret disable, since it got 1600 defend
@@MEOW7515 Cheers!
My issue with drones is for some reason when I use them I get police aggro all the time. Not sure why.
😂 you got that illegal stuff don’t you? Lol
That drone release was orgasmic... sorry.
That was pretty cool! Very…. Battlestar Galactica like. Vipers leaving the tubes!
thanks for the video :)
You’re welcome!!
This blew my mind, I never thought the builders would spit out defense drones en masse but it makes sense.
Now we got a discount carrier. When you want a raptor and mum says we got a raptor at home, it's an elephant with 135 defense drones.
Excited for the follow up🎉
Hope nobody gets any wild ideas and say, makes a mod that increases drone capacity on builders, that would be craaayyyzzzeeee
Do drones work out of sector now?
Yes they do!! The Patrol ships use them pretty frequently. However I will say if the enemy is a swarm the patrol ships and drones have their work cut out for them.
cool
Thank you! Works well enough too!
X4 is the very best !!!
It really is!
I tried dron swarming when i played the game
It was hell to make them do anything
Or even launch
Useful but Annoying
I get that! That’s why I haven’t up till recently when I realized Escort mode made a difference. Having the drones ready for combat is a god send. No more releasing them one at a time.
Just got bk playing, and yeah I've always skipped drones...
Not anymore
Right!!
You will change your mind when you see how long it takes to gather back the drones to start moving. I even don't use cargo drones for that reason.
Oh i know! And yea..... 243 drones.... its a pain.... even with seta..... But it's for science!
😮
🤯 We’ll see how it works out! Builders as a war ship. 😂
I would perfer a raptor any time just because of its pure firepower.
Also M-class dronecarryers are not that great for me because they launch theyr drones holaryously slow.🤷
True! That’s why you need to use the escort command…. Basically intercept command but for drone…. They are already released.
True🤔
@@T-Skillet But then you have to wait for them to dock one by one if you're moving to another sector, right?
@@abitterdraft You do.... But sometimes they just disappear and then you can move on.... Yeah they vanish into space, never to be seen again.... Idk why or how but it happens sometimes. Witnessed it twice.
I think I ruined my game by making 50 Asgards
You may have! 😂😂😂 50!!! That’s a lot!
@@T-Skillet Yeah I make them coz my stations run out of storage
How useless is drones in combat. 100% My Station has 1000 drones and can't kill anything with them.
I’ve never done drone combat from stations…. I’m curious how different they act.
But I will say drones from a ship don’t always work the way I think they should. Sometimes they are slow or a handful will get the order to attack but the rest won’t.
I’ve actually just packed them all up at this point. Universe is running out of Xenon.