Interesting. I always argued that the first proto-Ukrainian state was Galicia-Volhiniya, founded in 1199 A.D. as an important branching point away from the original Rus'. However, I don't know when the Ukrainian language officially split off from Old East Slavic.
This is a really good discussion. In the discussion of states or nations, the concept of statehood is comparatively new. In the Dark ages and the middle ages, kingdoms were the norm. rome formed an empire that conquored and somewhat controlled vast areas. That empire divided into two, each with its own state church; Roman Catholic and Orthodox. the leader of the orthodox church was also the head of state or emperor. The leader of the Catholic Church was the Pope, alongside the emperor, who was the head of the state. The Germanic tribes had leadership, governance and some kind of law, but were not actually nations. There were many. The nation of Germany came into being much later. The nation of France evolved from the Holy Roman Empire. Each modern European nation has had its precursor states. the common bond of language is key to statehood. The common bond of recognized leadership and enshrined rites of succession of leaders is another key factor to defining statehood. One could argue that the current Russian regime falls short of the definition of statehood because it now lacks a formally recognized rule of succession. There is Putin and nobody else. No way to assign leadership and control of the territory. More to the point, I think is the age of Ukrainian culture. That can definitively be tied to language, dating back to the use of Old Slavonic. From old Slavonic, five separate distinct recognized language groups have evolved. They are written, have different distinct alphabets, vocabulary, spelling and grammar. I would argue that Ukrainian culture dates back to the Kyivan Rus, at a minimum. It was during the Kyivan Rus that the Principality of Novgorod and Muscovy became more-or-less independent beginning the precursors of the modern russian state.
Indeed a very complicated question. But I would also like to emphasize that even under Soviet rule Ukraine was a seperate 'republic', just like Belarus allthough neither had full sovereignty. Both are also founding members of the United Nations and have always held their own seats. Also they are the only ones who did not have to apply for UN membership after the demise of the Soviet Union. The only thing that really changed in 1991 is that Ukraine gained full sovereignty over it's territory and it's politics, just like any other country in Europe. Russia has no bussiness there whatever they might try to kling to, just like the UK has nothing to say in India or any other former colonial power has a say in their former colonies.
Borderland, seriously? It's russian narrative. 'Ukraine' means land - kraj, not as in a border, but as in (my) land, (my) country. I had been sure the historian would say this is the most widespread theory of the name origin and was shocked to hear the border rubbish.
Thank you for your comment. But what Mr. Halushko was saying is far from being a Russian narrative. What he means is that Ukraine was not the outskirts of Russia, or Poland. It was the fighting frontier of Rus Land. And the name Ukraine started to be refered to a country within these frontiers.
Not true.Ukraine got its name after croatian king Ukromir from 3rd or 4th century. At the time it was the part of Great Croatia or as greeks call it He Megale Scythia. Russian historian Dr Alekander Mayorov publish a book about it in 2006. After Great Croatia there were White Black Red and Green Croatias named after cardinal points. White Croatia was ocupying part of Poland part of Ukraine and bordered Prague to the west. At the time of its existance we had 2 countries...White in the area mentioned and Red this one we are living in since 5th or 6th century. Croatian settlements in present day Ukraine can be found as far as Melitopol as far as I know it. Genetics also prove that ukrainians are most simillr to us. And i am proud to call ukrainians my brothers! Btw last known white Croats were in Czechia and vanished recently in the 50s of last century when they were forced to become czechs...something what russians are doing now in ocupied territories. Slava Ukrajini
Thank you - great work. I have just subscribed to your channel :)
Fascinating discussion. And I like the general consensus that Ukraine is both young and old. З Днем Незалежності 💙💛
Thank you!
Thank you for this video, Olena!
When I heard Steven Seegel I thought Steven Seagal haha 😂😂😂 or should I say Steven Z Gal. Haha😂😂
Thanks
Siri says; Ukraine is 1,124 years old. I woke up today feeling that old 🙄
😅
2023-1991=1124
Interesting. I always argued that the first proto-Ukrainian state was Galicia-Volhiniya, founded in 1199 A.D. as an important branching point away from the original Rus'. However, I don't know when the Ukrainian language officially split off from Old East Slavic.
This is a really good discussion. In the discussion of states or nations, the concept of statehood is comparatively new. In the Dark ages and the middle ages, kingdoms were the norm. rome formed an empire that conquored and somewhat controlled vast areas. That empire divided into two, each with its own state church; Roman Catholic and Orthodox. the leader of the orthodox church was also the head of state or emperor. The leader of the Catholic Church was the Pope, alongside the emperor, who was the head of the state. The Germanic tribes had leadership, governance and some kind of law, but were not actually nations. There were many. The nation of Germany came into being much later. The nation of France evolved from the Holy Roman Empire. Each modern European nation has had its precursor states. the common bond of language is key to statehood. The common bond of recognized leadership and enshrined rites of succession of leaders is another key factor to defining statehood. One could argue that the current Russian regime falls short of the definition of statehood because it now lacks a formally recognized rule of succession. There is Putin and nobody else. No way to assign leadership and control of the territory.
More to the point, I think is the age of Ukrainian culture. That can definitively be tied to language, dating back to the use of Old Slavonic. From old Slavonic, five separate distinct recognized language groups have evolved. They are written, have different distinct alphabets, vocabulary, spelling and grammar. I would argue that Ukrainian culture dates back to the Kyivan Rus, at a minimum. It was during the Kyivan Rus that the Principality of Novgorod and Muscovy became more-or-less independent beginning the precursors of the modern russian state.
Steven Seegel is an earnest supporter of Ukraine, but I wouldn’t invite him as an expert on Ukrainian history.
Indeed a very complicated question. But I would also like to emphasize that even under Soviet rule Ukraine was a seperate 'republic', just like Belarus allthough neither had full sovereignty. Both are also founding members of the United Nations and have always held their own seats. Also they are the only ones who did not have to apply for UN membership after the demise of the Soviet Union. The only thing that really changed in 1991 is that Ukraine gained full sovereignty over it's territory and it's politics, just like any other country in Europe. Russia has no bussiness there whatever they might try to kling to, just like the UK has nothing to say in India or any other former colonial power has a say in their former colonies.
Borderland, seriously? It's russian narrative. 'Ukraine' means land - kraj, not as in a border, but as in (my) land, (my) country. I had been sure the historian would say this is the most widespread theory of the name origin and was shocked to hear the border rubbish.
Thank you for your comment. But what Mr. Halushko was saying is far from being a Russian narrative. What he means is that Ukraine was not the outskirts of Russia, or Poland. It was the fighting frontier of Rus Land. And the name Ukraine started to be refered to a country within these frontiers.
Not true.Ukraine got its name after croatian king Ukromir from 3rd or 4th century. At the time it was the part of Great Croatia or as greeks call it He Megale Scythia. Russian historian Dr Alekander Mayorov publish a book about it in 2006.
After Great Croatia there were White Black Red and Green Croatias named after cardinal points. White Croatia was ocupying part of Poland part of Ukraine and bordered Prague to the west. At the time of its existance we had 2 countries...White in the area mentioned and Red this one we are living in since 5th or 6th century.
Croatian settlements in present day Ukraine can be found as far as Melitopol as far as I know it.
Genetics also prove that ukrainians are most simillr to us. And i am proud to call ukrainians my brothers!
Btw last known white Croats were in Czechia and vanished recently in the 50s of last century when they were forced to become czechs...something what russians are doing now in ocupied territories.
Slava Ukrajini
5:18 Wow, what an unfortunate name given the pro-Russian mouthpiece the actor has become nowadays.
Lets see if they can make it to 34 years...running low on adreno and high prices of that chroma keeping me on edge.
1500 years back Kyiv was funded.