Should THIS WINCHESTER Be Restored to Factory Condition?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- Thought it would be interesting to restore this Pre-64 Model 70 target/Match/Palma Deluxe rifle to its factory state. I tried to find a factory stock for the restoration. Looks better, no? Let me know what you think. The barrel is still not factory, but I kinda like this one in 7mm Gibbs. I actually found some original Rocky Gibbs ammo so it would be interesting to see it in action. Come have a look at some of the progress I've made in this restoration project and feel free to let me know your thoughts.
Originally I didn't know what this target rifle was chambered in so I used "fire forming" to figure it out. That was a very interesting day which you can watch here if you missed it:
• 7mm SECRET REVEALED: T...
We have lots going on. GET INVOLVED! Come check out USOG on Patreon, Instagram, and Facebook!
/ usog
/ officialusog
/ officialusog
A SPECIAL THANKS to all my PATRONS for your ongoing support!
A SHOUT OUT to the following Freedom Tier Level Supporters: Thomas J., David H., IIan F., Laurence S., William H., Michael G., Guy L., Thomas T., Thomas G., and Gregory M.
You can join my growing community on Patreon and benefit from more personalized USOG attention, exclusive content and merchandise, access to USOG's Discord Server and Meet Ups, and more:
/ usog
"Super Thanks" are now available on the channel! If you want your comment to stand out and make sure USOG reads/answers it, just send a Super Thanks. Super thanks are also another great way of supporting the channel :-)
Please help this channel keep going with a small donation:
www.paypal.com...
Music: www.bensound.com
No one on the internet should be scolding USOG for anything in regards to gun knowledge. This man has owned more guns that most will ever see in their lifetime. He is a legend.
You got that right !
Merely owning something does not mean you are observant or intelligent enough to actually know WTF you have.
@@JamesClark-lw6sw Except in Mike's case it goes hand n hand.
Agreed! He is a bonified expert!
But it’s RUclips. Don’t you know the world’s leading super experts all participate in the comments section?
I have been collecting and reloading as well as hunting for 60+ years and have owned about 2,500 rifles by my last estimates in about every cartridge made and love my rifles and this guy is one of the very few that I still learn something new every single time I watch his channel🙌 he has forgotten more then most will ever know concerning guns so if we’re just listen we ALL can learn something new👏👊
Good lord! I'm at around 100 or so that have lived with me for at least awhile and I thought that was a lot. 😂
High praise - thank you! I'll keep going. All the best to you.
"One of the things Ive been up to"says the Quiet Achiever !Thankyou Sir for posting the start of the journey.
Thank you as well - for being on the channel and sending such kind words.
Getting that back to factory would be quite the accomplishment. I'm sure you can do it.
Appreciate the confidence - I'll keep going with it.
Sorry to hear you have been ill. Always fun to have a project gun in the works. I once came across a Gibbs Rifle in a small Boise gun shop. It also was in .280 Gibbs and from what I have read it was one of his more popular cartridges. I always thought it would be fun to have a M70 target rifle in 300 H&H.
You're one of the few that ever saw a Gibbs! Certainly a creative fellow - I like that rifle in any form
Your knowledge, insight and, above all, your passion for all things rifle is truly inspiring. I enjoy every one of your videos. Please keep them coming.
Thank you James. I try.
Appreciate you and your knowledge very much. You have a calmness about you, which makes it easier for me to follow and enjoy the information that you present ! 👍
I'll keep going 👍
Nice work, great rifle, great man.
Your kind words are an inspiration 🙏
I’m always glad to see a new video. You always make my day watching. Keep it up remember me I’m down here in Texas so you have a good day sir and wanna watch it and I’ll wait for the next one
Thank you for the video, always a pleasure. I agree with the notion to return that to a more traditional-looking stock.
Thank you
On observing the rifle I find myself recalling the 'Watchmen' film where the collective timeline went into a 1984 like world where the S.E.A. war carried on through the 1970's consuming more and more blood and toil. It has the 1970's US Army look with the walnut. Fascinating history in that fine rifle. I like to listen to your forensic dissections and filling in the blanks.😊
New Portuguese made M70s have a single piece steel floorplate. Extremely nice rifles and good video.
Perfect - we need them : )
Definitely better looking than in the laminate stock. I understand the benefits of such stocks in the MOA pursuit, but I have usually found them to be a bit ugly and ungainly.
We all hope your health continues to improve. Your perspective and insight are invaluable.
Thank you James
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
The press enjoys demanding you follow their mantra .
My dad had a pre 64 Model 70 "Sport" model (lighter stock) and "Medium Heavy" barrel in 30-06. He shot the barrel out and replaced it with an "accurized" 670 Sport model in 30-06. His gunsmith tried to talk him out of it and when that failed he traded him "like for like". He was never 100% happy with it. In the end he shot my Mauser some.. I really like what you are doing with this one..
Thanks for the note. I'll keep going - "both" rifles are nice - the laminated as well as the walnut IMHO
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns And I will enjoy the journey! Love your channel! Always a great day when you upload an episode!!
I like the outcome so far!
Great video! Thank you.👍
Enjoy restoring that rifle! The 7mm Gibbs is a good cartridge. Nearly 7mm Rem. Mag performance without the unnecessary and troublesome (for handloaders) belt.
That looks like a fun project-put her back together!
Will do 👍
Thanks for so much information on your show
Definately a good choice. I like what you said about having a picture in mind of the finished product. Thank you for sharing yours with us!
Thank you
The 7x64 was a 1920's German "wonder round " - Remington's much later 280 was based on it.
Even earlier than 1920
Mike, great project. Keep rolling forward. All the best, Rick.
Hey Rick! Will do. Hope all is well and you're getting some shooting in. Thanks for sticking with me all these years.
Interesting rifle. My guess for caliber would have been 7x64 Brenneke AI (Ackley Improved), judging by the proportions by which the shoulders are pushed forward and the shoulder angle increased. I have a 7x57 AI; and when you compare its fire-formed cases to a standard 7x57 case, they compare very similarly to your 7x64 case and the one you fire-formed.
That's helpful info. Thanks
If I ruled the world I would change it back to original factory. I have never been a fan of tiger striped stocks. Just a traditionalist I guess in many ways. Always good videos.
We're on the same page
Looking much better with that new/old stock. Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.
Thank you! All the best to you in the great NZ
Hey Mike, It’s me again. That’s already a vast improvement over the previous monstrosity IMHO.
It handles much better with the walnut; I guess off the bench the laminate is fine though.
Hi Mike better off with Walnut then laminate. Your right laminate is so heavy and some senthetics. Love the rifle . Especially the scope. Beautiful set up you have. Keep videos coming mike take care and stay healthy!! thank you
Fantastic content! Always a pleasure.
Thank you for being on the channel. I wish you well.
Thanks so much for shaing!
You're most welcome : )
Wasnt aware you were ill. Hope theres some resolution to recover. I like the more traditional wood stock. BTW im not far from that Viola idaho area. When i was a kid in 70's and 80's i remember hearing about those Gibbs line of cartridges from my uncle. That era from the 1950s to 1970's was kind of a golden era for DIY guys to experiment being there were lots of cheap mausers, 1917's, and 1903 Springfields.
Thank you. That had to be a great time for gun people.
Hello USOG; hope your health improves.
Since you asked for thoughts and feedback,,,, okay, here goes: That fat, striped stock is not "photogenic". It might fit your arm/shoulder/neck very well if you are target shooting at long distance, in a sitting or standing off-hand position, with that hand support extension thingy. I think the walnut brown stock is much better looking and much more hunting friendly in the mountains where you live at.
If you are having trouble finding parts, try Numrich Gun Parts Corporation, Kingston, New York, USA. {You probably know that, but maybe not.}
As for the 7mm Gibbs cartridge (if that is truly what it is), it is not factory ammunition. It was a "wildcat" as were Rocky Gibbs' other cartridges made from the .30-06 Springfield case, neck angled at a 35-degree angle ((unlike the Ackley Improved idea of a 40-degree neck)). I have never seen any ammo company make or list Gibbs cartridges in their stock items. If you want to shoot that rifle you will need to get some case forming dies (probably from R.C.B.S.) and handload them.
I remember the first video you did about that rifle and cartridge and that you asked for suggestions about what it was. I have looked and looked using two different pairs of reading glasses, but for me / my eyes I think that the fired cartridge is NOT what you think it is. I enjoy your videos and do not want you to get injured by using the wrong components, which would make bad pressures.
I have looked in 3 of my printed reloading manuals and none of them lists the 7mm Gibbs. I found a mention in a Wikipedia electronic article that says the 7mm Gibbs case capacity of H2O is 68.2 grains (4.43 ml). I would suggest that you get an eye dropper or something to add water and measure the water amount in a once-fired case (with a primer in the flash hole), and see how much water it actually holds. Be safe!
Excellent post - thanks for taking the time to write. Viewers are suggesting I keep both stocks - that's a good idea; one single shot and one repeater. I agree - the walnut stock (to me) is nicer - yet the laminate offers advantages for some applications as you also noted. I found some pre-64 parts in a corner of my vault; probably more options in there.
Thanks again and good shooting.
omg that is going to be a fantastic rifle! i love that stock and im a heavy barrel guy! and you can fix those swivel holes with a tooth pick and some wood glue. target rifles and single shots are my favorites and to have a mod 70 target rifle is a dream! ive got an old shooters bible from 1951 and i always read all the specs on the mod 70 target heavy and my fav the bull gun! 194$ in 1951. the only other rifle that can compete is the 300meeter strait pull hammerelli target rifle. trying to recall off the top of mt head lol. you have an excellent project that has alot of potential!
Thanks for the note - I'm eager to get this one completed; should be great!
Hey Mike, Sarco Inc. in Easton, Pennsylvania might have the parts you need or Numrich! All the best to you in your restoration endeavors! If anyone can do it you can!
Thank you very much
I always enjoy your videos very much. Plywood stocks give me the shivers.
Thank you for the good words. I know what you mean.
I think the rifle is an interesting period correct custom build with historical importance. I would leave it as is. The walnut stock is more handsome but that would be the limit of any alterations I would consider. Thanks for sharing!
I like that view. I think I'll complete both.
The bolt channel in the laminate stock is quite a piece of work, allowing a very high comb without obstructing the bolt's travel. Not sure the purpose of having a single shot bolt rifle in such a "robust" chambering, but whomever made it is likely no longer around to tell us.
Best of luck in getting the rifle back to a nearer factory configuration.
Thank you. That laminate stock is actually quite excellent
Interesting subject and another fine video. With the unusual chambering I suppose the collectors would turn up their noses but in that new stock it's a handsome rifle indeed. Good job so far I would say. All the best.
Looking forward to seeing it :-)
Lotsa of busybodies. Yes,plz restore as best as possible.🤩👍
Will do : )
Quite interesting. Restorations such as you propose will always result in a superior outcome in functionality, aesthetics, and appropriate homage to history and the skilled craftsmen who built the original. Is it better to restore, for example, a Spitfire with its Rolls-Royce Merlin or to put a commercial engine into a fiberglass fuselage?
Hope you are doing well!
I hear you - and thanks for the good word
Anyone who would scold you is an idiot. My Grandpa had a saying, do you understand what you think you know. That would apply to anyone who questions you.
That is deep your Grandpa was a wise man.
Your support is much appreciated! Your Grandpa's words ring true.
I remember when a shop here had an old barrel full of Enfields. I think the price was $150 or so, you paid your money and you could pick the rifle you wanted.
Those were the days
Heck yes, Mike that rifle is coming along just fine.
Can't wait to see you finish it and be able to get back out there putting rounds through it
I'm just starting a restoration also on a savage 1899 take-down, its not going back to stock mode that's forsure... making my version of a Savage trapper
ha ha ha sandpaper time here we go.
Great idea! That is a project I can visualize; the factory should have made such a model. Best of luck with your project!
It looks like a fun project. Just keep the spare parts for changing it back if you want. I would keep looking for the parts that you had to cannibalize from the other gun. You or someone might want to restore that one someday. Have fun.
Thank you - good advice - the laminate is heavy and not original but so stable. Anyway, I'll keep going.
303 Enfield at gun shows 50 to 70 bucks back in the old days lol. Great round
If you like the 7mm Gibbs, I'd just turn it into a long range rig. You are not gaining anything by using a factory target stock, but if you like the looks, go for it. Your rifle was made in 1960, and the 30-06 bull gun was discontinued then. The actual "target model", that you are referring to, was discontinued in 1952. Your rifle was never a "target model". Just so you know. It was made from a 1960 Winchester model 70, more than likely a 30-06 standard weight rifle. A true target rifle would have clip slots in the rear receiver bridge. The point of my post is to tell you, that whatever you do to the rifle, does not make it gain value. You need to do a little research, and learn what is actually "original", when it comes to this rifle. Guys commenting, saying get it back to factory or "original", don't know what it was. It could have been a featherweight, for all we know. What it is right now, is a rebarreled wildcat cartridge, pre 64 model 70. It is lacking the original stock, but looks like it has its original bolt. Is the serial # scribed on the bolt body? Your replacement bottom metal appears to be aluminum, which was only on the featherweight model. There's a lot about these rifle, that you don't know. As an example, the magazine box you are showing, is from a 308 Winchester. It has a spacer in it, and will not work for your 7mm Gibbs overall length. Just so you know. Let me guess, the "beat up pre 64", you took that off of, is a 308 Featherweight?? You'll have fun playing with this one, but you probably won't actually return it to "original"...
Great post. I like the walnut stock and I like the laminate as well. Some viewers suggest keeping both - I think I'll do that. No interest in increasing the value of anything : ) the scope is probably the highest value - although I've purchased several mix-and-match pre-64s and value them as much as any other - but that's just me. The rifle action and bolt are original and matching. In the meantime I found a box with a few magazine boxes/floorplates/trigger
guards : ) - so I'll pick something from those. The laminate is a single shot though....The aluminum is fine yet this won't be a light rifle. I'm still not sure about the barrel - I have a few pre-64 barrels - I guess I could use a .308 but you're right - I'll likely stick with the longer cartridges; or just stick with the Gibbs - which is probably easiest.
Evidently the walnut stock may not be factory either according viewers.
Anyway, I used to spend time around cars. Friends would buy an old wreck and restore it. Virtually all important parts were not factory but the restored Mustang or what have you looked factory. I guess people like bringing things back to how they looked or might have looked; sort of like the paintings in art galleries in Europe as well.
We'll see how it goes - I may have more ideas and parts coming in from viewers.
All the best and thank you!
@Imbear ---> Good post. I think you "hit the nail on the head".
It would make a good hunting rifle.
Looks like the 280 Ackley improved probably fairly close
You're right; pretty close
You're right. Pretty close 👍
4:53: Does the 303 restorer in Saskatchewan you found happen to be Stuart Hardcastle & Son of Lee Enfield Restorations? Stuart is good people!
Yes! Fantastic idea!
Yes.
we boys and our toys! What you are seeking from the audience is just an opinion vote, clearly you have two ways to go that will result in a fine rifle. For me, I am drawn to the "wildcat" which is pretty much what this is, a blown out case with a sharper neck angle, on the order of a Kilbourn or Ackley adventure. Some of us have an appetite for the custom rifle, the upgrades made by a skilled builder can be a great value. I have a couple of wildcat small bores, as a rule wildcats do not suit most gun enthusiasts because the ammo in not standard or commercial. You can have a set of loading dies made for that gun, if you do not already have them. Whoever did the custom job did well, really well, it looks great. True enough it would not be a walking gun because of weight but that other more factory set up in play would not be either. Trade offs, superb accuracy, inviting looks for some heft. I have Winchester 52's with similar factory stocks and the heavy barrel, they are strictly a bench gun. And I have a Remington 37 long rifle that was custom built by Al Biesen of Spokane Wa, his name is signed inside the inletting channel, it is a monstrous piece of wood, with exquisite pistol grip design and all the adjustable butt plate and other metal paraphernalia, competition peep sights and a custom 2 ounce trigger. It too is a bench gun but it is a marvelous mating of wood and steel. It is all in your personal taste old buddy. Have fun!
Thanks for the comment - good guidance; and your Al Biesen rifle has to be fantastic. He didn't make many similar. I remember reading about Biesen rifles in the Jack O'Conner books. Good health and good shooting!
I love historical stuff, but I also love freedom. So if you want to change your rifle, who am I to oppose?
Sounds good to me
I agree that the stock is hideous but if it shoots leave it alone. Plenty os model 70’s out there to spend money on. Too many to spend money to change one that shoots good.
I like that thinking!
That is one ugly laminate stock. Anything would be an improvement, even a traditional cheap plastic stock found on Walmart rifles.
Good show.
Leave it so you can put either stock on it, depending on what you want at the time. It is a period correct target rife. Nothing to be ashamed of.
I think you're right - I'll complete it so both are ready to be used.
Have you ever heard of the .243 SUPER POOPER ? I have an old reloading manual that shows data for it.
You and I - amazing! I have one. The rifle is a pre-64 Model 70 and I have ammo - but only a few rounds. I wonder if you could scan that for me somehow. I'll make a video on Patreon.
usogbyemail@gmail.com
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I will scan/send you the data page ONLY if you put it on your regular channel. Im a pensioner, cant afford all these paid subs. I do enjoy your channel immensely.
USOG love your videos
But there was a Joe Biden add on your channel !
I don’t think you have any control of adds when 10.0.3your video
Thanks for letting me know. Last election all parties were here; well, maybe not the smaller ones.
All walls should come with doors