@@aZeddPrattFilm Gaff tape won't leave residue if it's not left on long term and painter's tape generally lacks that mass and adhesion that we're looking for but if it works for you then that's great!
I was a “strip from bell to edge” guy as a kid in the 80s. I think it was just something to do then. Boy were we dumb. Not just misinformed, but we didn’t think much. Kids (I really hope kids watch this channel) pay attention to this man!
this was incredibly helpful. I have used tape strips on the bottom of my 20" power ride and never really noticed how it diminished its swash. I may start using tape again after watching this.
Paramore’s Self titled record is a great example, Justin Mendal was the producer and he likes to tape the cymbals so they dominate less with hard hitting drummers -> Ilan Rubin
I like the radial strip method when a cymbal sounds "too new". I did use masking tape in the past, it does dry out and leave a nasty residue. A thin strip of gaffer tape is a good idea, but even that needs replacing now and then before it gets gooey. Your mentioning of Tony Williams made me want to rewatch Paul Wells' in-depth Tony gear videos. Highly recommended.
I've used a little tape (only on ride cymbals) many times. It does the things you mention, and here's my example. I'm playing in a jazz trio, (piano, bass, drums) and we are in a corner of the room, where the surfaces are hard. And, the piano player, (whose hearing is a little messed up, and sits just a few feet away from me) was extremely bothered by the wash from my 22-inch Custom A ride. So, I'm using my 20-inch Ping ride, with three small pieces of tape on the bottom. It kills a lot of the major wash, making the sound more "glassy", and it sounds good on the live recordings. I've done this in similar situations, with my 20-inch Light Ride, too, with pretty good results. Do what works! :)
To add to this cymbal series, it would be cool if you guys did a collab with Thimoty Roberts of Reverie drums or any other cymbal smiths out there... I like his channel, he really explains the steps he's taking to make or mod a cymbal and how it affects the sound. All of what you're talking here is exactly stuff he does when someone sends in a cymbal to get a certain characteristic tweaked. I feel if you do tape for a session because you need to do it that's cool but if it's forever tape, maybe you got the wrong cymbal or it could be adjusted to fit what you want to hear. Some of the jobs he does, he only works the underside of a cymbal and preserve topside logos and stamps... you can't tell he's been in there!! I'm thinking a step by step recording of a cymbal blank through all of its changes and what that brings to the sound would be a perfect all in one demonstration of the process vs the results!!
I have an old K with a hum, and some gaff tape on the bell and transition reduced it significantly. OTOH, I have an 18" that's more crash than ride; I put a piece of gaff tape in the middle to make it more ride - rein in the wash and make the stick definition more audible - and it actually amplified one overtone (or reduced everything but) and sort of created a hum.
That cymbal sounds great to start with and the tape changes the tonal qualities substantially but they all sound useful depending on how you use it. So…start with an excellent cymbal and then as you modify it you can use it in multiple situations. It seems like a “medium “ weight cymbal might be more “adjustable” than say a heavy. Could you have just one cymbal and use it for everything? Maybe this one you could. It’s a beautiful instrument!!!
Never been a fan of cymbal taping, I'll always try my best to hit it much lighter, which I find helps a lot in lively rooms. I also hate cleaning residue, even from gaffers tape that sits just a bit to long.
Welcome! This is the ride we use in the vast majority of our videos. It’s a custom mod that our good friend and cymbal master Jesse Simpson produced to clone an old Zildjian A. It has a tremendously dynamic response that works quite well across genres.
Masking tape is common because masking tape is common. (Cheap, handy & the only thing available in the 90 seconds available to "fix" an unwanted cymbal sound.)
Some of the most highly regarded drummers use this for live scenarios. It's all about bridging the gap between expectation and reality in a given scenario, regardless of what that scenario may be.
Taping cymbals is huge. This made it possible for us to remove the foam top of our church’s drum cage on a stage with a low ceiling and close walls. That along with a Remo Muff’l on every drum tamed the volume significantly and made our sound engineer’s life much easier. It also allows cymbals with brilliant finishes or high bells to be more versatile.
It's frustrating that "silent cymbals" exist, which produce pretty much no sound except a little toy-like sizzle, but there are no "medium volume cymbals". As a drummer and sound engineer I'm so often struggling with loud cymbals destroying the FoH mix, so I'd much rather have quiet cymbals and then just mike em up to put them on the PA, but the silent cymbals don't sound good and are *too* quiet...
As I recall, that’s what the Sabian FRX line was. That said, what you’re describing as an issue has just as much to do with how the player is playing as it does what cymbals are in use.
I totally agree that there is a market for a cymbal that is about 40-50% loud but still sounds like a decent pro cymbal. These would be great in so many venues. Those Sabian FRX cymbals don't go quiet enough. The quietest I've found so far are the K Custom Fast Crashes but I want something considerably quieter.
I used to put just a small piece of gaff tape near the bell on the underside of most cymbals. That's the most I'd do. Anything more, especially placed near the edge or on smaller cymbals will dampen the cymbal too much, not allowing it to vibrate, meaning it's more viable to cracking.
Nice! For what it’s worth, we’ve placed larger segments of tape at the edge and played the cymbals quite hard without any issue. You’d have to seriously restrict the motion of the cymbal for this to actually result in cracking.
Something to be mindful of is that putting weight at the edge of the cymbal makes it a little bit more likely to form cracks, particularly if you are really laying into it.
You’d need to have a significant amount of weight on there and be hitting poorly for this to have enough of an impact and even then you’d still be at high risk for cracking.
I'd be really careful about using even gaff tape on lacquered cymbals like most Paiste. Taking the lacquer off B8 cymbals results in them tarnishing much more quickly and it's possible any adhesive COULD remove that lacquer when removed.
This is like saying that sort of thing about drums. These instruments are capable of so much more. Tuning them and actively making these decisions is part of being a good musician.
@SoundsLikeADrum what I'm trying to say is that the price of drum head is way cheaper than a nice cymbal? I, personally don't put stuff on my drum heads because there is such a huge selection of drum heads, but I could possibly put something on a snare head? But putting tape on a cymbal that costs 250-4,500 dollars each compared to a 10,20,30 dollar drum head is a big difference. You put tape on a drum head, you can peel it off, even most, if not all of the glue? But I think it is way harder to clean that cymbal of all the glue, oil and dirt from your hands is different. Nowadays you don't see tape on cymbals compared to the 70's and 80's. Even the 90's for very few? The selection of cymbals is huge and for nice cymbals it's outrageous!!! If someone put a big piece of tape on a Paiste signature cymbal of mine, I would Go Nuts and flip out! But if someone put a big piece of tape on one of my drumheads, I could just peel it off slowly and get the glue off with a sponge and hot water.
@@MichaelBrown-x1q your not making sense. especially because, like you said, cymbals are so expensive that it makes sense to modify the ones you have instead of buying more
But what if I love the way a cymbal sounds 90% of the time but in some situations it isn’t quite right? Do I have to carry around a ton of cymbals just in case? A roll of gaff is wayyyyy easier.
@Mhxhgc c'mon Man!! Lol! I really am not trying to argue about it? And it is each drummers choice. I get that. And if you want to put tape on your cymbals, go right ahead? First a cymbal doesn't sound right 90 percent of the time. It makes the sound it makes. My whole point is that in today's market, a musician has so many options for the sounds their looking for. And if you search for cymbals you can do homework on what kind of sound you want and get what you are looking for? The whole point of drummers putting tape on their cymbals and heads was that there was limited variety. Now, besides having different weights, we have from dark, dry, extra crisp, dual zone, extra hammered, extra dry, ping, etc. etc. Back in the day it wasn't even close. Never had stacks, holes, rivets, clap stacks, etc. If you still can't get the sound your looking for, then by all means if putting tape on your cymbals makes you happy, then go right ahead? My only advice is not to buy ones that are so expensive, in case you don't like the sound that's all? Test them out before you buy? Probably use less tape? Lol! Just being a wise ass! To each his own!!!!
We couldn’t disagree more. That’s like saying if you need to retune the drum in a different room then it’s not the right drum for you. These are practical methods for altering the sound and behavior of an instrument.
It might not be the right cymbal for a certain situation, but how many cymbals are you gonna have to carry around with you to cover every possible situation. A tiny bit of tape & voila.
Agree with SLAD on this point. There are certainly times when the gear you have with you may need a tweak, and this is the best way to tweak a cymbal's sound. I have a number of rides, but when I am out playing I only bring one or two - not the whole collection. So, I may have two rides I really like, but they are not working for the space or the song. I have almost never taped my cymbals, but I get why people do it. And, when I watch videos of pros, I often see gaff tape on drums and cymbals. These guys REALLY know their stuff, and know that the right sound is the most important thing. So, I could easily follow their lead.
Why am im surprised that cymbals companies haven’t tried to market and sell us “cymbal tape” 😂😂
Not a bad idea, actually, considering how many people seem to think that the type of tape doesn't matter and end up using duct tape 🫠
@@SoundsLikeADrumI use painters tape. I don’t understand why people use gaffers tape when it leaves residue.
@@aZeddPrattFilm Gaff tape won't leave residue if it's not left on long term and painter's tape generally lacks that mass and adhesion that we're looking for but if it works for you then that's great!
Meinl cymbal tuners?
Another option that we’ll be covering in a future episode over on our Patreon.
I was a “strip from bell to edge” guy as a kid in the 80s. I think it was just something to do then. Boy were we dumb. Not just misinformed, but we didn’t think much. Kids (I really hope kids watch this channel) pay attention to this man!
You folks are amazing. Thank you for selflessly sharing your experiments and knowledge. This is what internet is about.
Great choice of topic! There's not enough verified info out there on this.. and it's crazy how triggered some drummers get about taping cymbals.
I sometimes just use painters tape and a felt on rides primarily. Can try many combos to get desired control.
Thank you so much for doing cymbal stuff! Really helpful and interesting
this was incredibly helpful. I have used tape strips on the bottom of my 20" power ride and never really noticed how it diminished its swash. I may start using tape again after watching this.
Paramore’s Self titled record is a great example, Justin Mendal was the producer and he likes to tape the cymbals so they dominate less with hard hitting drummers -> Ilan Rubin
This is great! Makes me rethink buying and testing used/new cymbals and bringing some gaffe tape with me! 🤓
I like the radial strip method when a cymbal sounds "too new". I did use masking tape in the past, it does dry out and leave a nasty residue. A thin strip of gaffer tape is a good idea, but even that needs replacing now and then before it gets gooey.
Your mentioning of Tony Williams made me want to rewatch Paul Wells' in-depth Tony gear videos. Highly recommended.
I've used a little tape (only on ride cymbals) many times. It does the things you mention, and here's my example. I'm playing in a jazz trio, (piano, bass, drums) and we are in a corner of the room, where the surfaces are hard. And, the piano player, (whose hearing is a little messed up, and sits just a few feet away from me) was extremely bothered by the wash from my 22-inch Custom A ride. So, I'm using my 20-inch Ping ride, with three small pieces of tape on the bottom. It kills a lot of the major wash, making the sound more "glassy", and it sounds good on the live recordings. I've done this in similar situations, with my 20-inch Light Ride, too, with pretty good results. Do what works! :)
Great presentation! Very helpful demonstrations.
Excellent content on a subject not really covered. Thanks for the video!
NO! I use a moon gel or two on my ride, just to get rid of the overtones.
Especially when recording.
Gives a nice "ping".
To add to this cymbal series, it would be cool if you guys did a collab with Thimoty Roberts of Reverie drums or any other cymbal smiths out there... I like his channel, he really explains the steps he's taking to make or mod a cymbal and how it affects the sound. All of what you're talking here is exactly stuff he does when someone sends in a cymbal to get a certain characteristic tweaked. I feel if you do tape for a session because you need to do it that's cool but if it's forever tape, maybe you got the wrong cymbal or it could be adjusted to fit what you want to hear. Some of the jobs he does, he only works the underside of a cymbal and preserve topside logos and stamps... you can't tell he's been in there!!
I'm thinking a step by step recording of a cymbal blank through all of its changes and what that brings to the sound would be a perfect all in one demonstration of the process vs the results!!
I have an old K with a hum, and some gaff tape on the bell and transition reduced it significantly. OTOH, I have an 18" that's more crash than ride; I put a piece of gaff tape in the middle to make it more ride - rein in the wash and make the stick definition more audible - and it actually amplified one overtone (or reduced everything but) and sort of created a hum.
9:55 oh god, i'm blind! (just kidding love you guys)
Just checking to see who's paying attention 😉
You can put a drum tac on the bottom of any cymbal to slightly dry it up. If you want a heavy mute put it further away from the bell.
So I like to have a 2” square under the bow where I strike the ride on a thinner ride. This seems to give me more stick definition in that area.
Moongel works for me, or even better sticky hands with that long string gel arm part
Better than gaffer tape : dance floor tape ! Same effect and absolutely no residue !
That cymbal sounds great to start with and the tape changes the tonal qualities substantially but they all sound useful depending on how you use it. So…start with an excellent cymbal and then as you modify it you can use it in multiple situations. It seems like a “medium “ weight cymbal might be more “adjustable” than say a heavy. Could you have just one cymbal and use it for everything? Maybe this one you could. It’s a beautiful instrument!!!
Never been a fan of cymbal taping, I'll always try my best to hit it much lighter, which I find helps a lot in lively rooms.
I also hate cleaning residue, even from gaffers tape that sits just a bit to long.
Hi - am a new subscriber from London. What's the ride in this video?
Welcome! This is the ride we use in the vast majority of our videos. It’s a custom mod that our good friend and cymbal master Jesse Simpson produced to clone an old Zildjian A. It has a tremendously dynamic response that works quite well across genres.
Please add text to each section of the video saying what tape config we're listening to.
I like the bell tape the best. The edge is second.
Btw what are those sticks?
I think those are the promark fire grain sticks
I dunno how you can put that strip on the edge at a specific position and expect it to stay there… my cymbals are always spinning around as I play
Lots of pros use tape. Sometimes a great cymbal can be dialed in perfectly with just a small 2" piece
One of the best methods i use is electrical tape all the way around the edge. It cuts out just enough of the highs with out choking it
Masking tape is common because masking tape is common. (Cheap, handy & the only thing available in the 90 seconds available to "fix" an unwanted cymbal sound.)
Mmmm for live no BUT in some studio recording situations necessary
Some of the most highly regarded drummers use this for live scenarios. It's all about bridging the gap between expectation and reality in a given scenario, regardless of what that scenario may be.
Wait a minute. Where did the long hair come from? Anyway, I use a 1971 Zyldjan A 22 " that always needs a bit of tape. Works for me
I think his hair has been pulled up this whole time….
It grows! 😉 Keep in mind that these Cymbal Sounds episodes were also filmed 4+ years ago during the pandemic.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Ahhh, gotcha! 😉🤫
Taping cymbals is huge. This made it possible for us to remove the foam top of our church’s drum cage on a stage with a low ceiling and close walls. That along with a Remo Muff’l on every drum tamed the volume significantly and made our sound engineer’s life much easier.
It also allows cymbals with brilliant finishes or high bells to be more versatile.
Brilliant finish cymbals will typically have LESS high frequencies than traditional finish cymbals.
If you have to muffle a drum or cymbal, you really should pursue a career outside drumming.
🧐
It's frustrating that "silent cymbals" exist, which produce pretty much no sound except a little toy-like sizzle, but there are no "medium volume cymbals". As a drummer and sound engineer I'm so often struggling with loud cymbals destroying the FoH mix, so I'd much rather have quiet cymbals and then just mike em up to put them on the PA, but the silent cymbals don't sound good and are *too* quiet...
As I recall, that’s what the Sabian FRX line was. That said, what you’re describing as an issue has just as much to do with how the player is playing as it does what cymbals are in use.
I totally agree that there is a market for a cymbal that is about 40-50% loud but still sounds like a decent pro cymbal. These would be great in so many venues. Those Sabian FRX cymbals don't go quiet enough. The quietest I've found so far are the K Custom Fast Crashes but I want something considerably quieter.
Unfortunately playing cymbals quietly is a skill a lot of drummers don’t practice, & it definitely does need practice to get right &/or feel natural.
Try the Keropes
@@kennystearns1865 Agean have there „R“cymbals, with holes, that sound almost normal but 50-70 % less loud.
I used to put just a small piece of gaff tape near the bell on the underside of most cymbals. That's the most I'd do. Anything more, especially placed near the edge or on smaller cymbals will dampen the cymbal too much, not allowing it to vibrate, meaning it's more viable to cracking.
Nice! For what it’s worth, we’ve placed larger segments of tape at the edge and played the cymbals quite hard without any issue. You’d have to seriously restrict the motion of the cymbal for this to actually result in cracking.
Something to be mindful of is that putting weight at the edge of the cymbal makes it a little bit more likely to form cracks, particularly if you are really laying into it.
You’d need to have a significant amount of weight on there and be hitting poorly for this to have enough of an impact and even then you’d still be at high risk for cracking.
first!
Enjoy the episode!
I'd be really careful about using even gaff tape on lacquered cymbals like most Paiste. Taking the lacquer off B8 cymbals results in them tarnishing much more quickly and it's possible any adhesive COULD remove that lacquer when removed.
If only it were that easy to get all of the lacquer off!
Never, ever put tape on your cymbals? If you don't like how they sound, don't buy them, or keep them??? What are you crazy???
This is like saying that sort of thing about drums. These instruments are capable of so much more. Tuning them and actively making these decisions is part of being a good musician.
@SoundsLikeADrum what I'm trying to say is that the price of drum head is way cheaper than a nice cymbal? I, personally don't put stuff on my drum heads because there is such a huge selection of drum heads, but I could possibly put something on a snare head? But putting tape on a cymbal that costs 250-4,500 dollars each compared to a 10,20,30 dollar drum head is a big difference. You put tape on a drum head, you can peel it off, even most, if not all of the glue? But I think it is way harder to clean that cymbal of all the glue, oil and dirt from your hands is different. Nowadays you don't see tape on cymbals compared to the 70's and 80's. Even the 90's for very few? The selection of cymbals is huge and for nice cymbals it's outrageous!!! If someone put a big piece of tape on a Paiste signature cymbal of mine, I would Go Nuts and flip out! But if someone put a big piece of tape on one of my drumheads, I could just peel it off slowly and get the glue off with a sponge and hot water.
@@MichaelBrown-x1q your not making sense. especially because, like you said, cymbals are so expensive that it makes sense to modify the ones you have instead of buying more
But what if I love the way a cymbal sounds 90% of the time but in some situations it isn’t quite right? Do I have to carry around a ton of cymbals just in case? A roll of gaff is wayyyyy easier.
@Mhxhgc c'mon Man!! Lol! I really am not trying to argue about it? And it is each drummers choice. I get that. And if you want to put tape on your cymbals, go right ahead? First a cymbal doesn't sound right 90 percent of the time. It makes the sound it makes. My whole point is that in today's market, a musician has so many options for the sounds their looking for. And if you search for cymbals you can do homework on what kind of sound you want and get what you are looking for? The whole point of drummers putting tape on their cymbals and heads was that there was limited variety. Now, besides having different weights, we have from dark, dry, extra crisp, dual zone, extra hammered, extra dry, ping, etc. etc. Back in the day it wasn't even close. Never had stacks, holes, rivets, clap stacks, etc. If you still can't get the sound your looking for, then by all means if putting tape on your cymbals makes you happy, then go right ahead? My only advice is not to buy ones that are so expensive, in case you don't like the sound that's all? Test them out before you buy? Probably use less tape? Lol! Just being a wise ass! To each his own!!!!
If you need to use cymbal tape than It is simply not the right cymbal for you.
We couldn’t disagree more. That’s like saying if you need to retune the drum in a different room then it’s not the right drum for you. These are practical methods for altering the sound and behavior of an instrument.
It might not be the right cymbal for a certain situation, but how many cymbals are you gonna have to carry around with you to cover every possible situation. A tiny bit of tape & voila.
Agree with SLAD on this point. There are certainly times when the gear you have with you may need a tweak, and this is the best way to tweak a cymbal's sound. I have a number of rides, but when I am out playing I only bring one or two - not the whole collection. So, I may have two rides I really like, but they are not working for the space or the song. I have almost never taped my cymbals, but I get why people do it. And, when I watch videos of pros, I often see gaff tape on drums and cymbals. These guys REALLY know their stuff, and know that the right sound is the most important thing. So, I could easily follow their lead.