Power, as a lighter rider i can use the watts also on the flat. It is normal that 5 watts is worth more than 1 kg for an amateur, if you dont have more than 5 watt/kg watts are more usefull
Great video Ollie. This is why beginning cyclists can stay motivated pretty easily. If you have some weight to lose and you're just getting started, the improvements will come pretty quickly. It's only when you're at your ideal weight and you've been riding consistently for quite a while that the improvements are much harder to come by. At some point you just have to be happy with where you are and just enjoy riding your bike. Plus, if I were lucky enough to be where you are, would I want to race up that climb, or take it nice and easy and enjoy the view?
I gotta say, it seems like every single comment on RUclips about starting out riding bikes is heavily assuming the beginner to be overweight. I've never been overweight in my life but also saw very rapid gains in speed, very quickly. So idk if it's just the norm to be fat around here but I don't think mega gains are exclusive to them starting out.
@@fVNzO I get what you’re saying, and of course many people begin cycling as an adult without being overweight. I just think, and I could be wrong, that the majority of adults who get into cycling do so to get ride of some weight and get fit. It may only be ten pounds, or it may be 200. I myself lost 160 through cycling. But in any case, the reason for getting on a bike isn’t really important. The important parts are the benefits that come from it. Better heart health, better mental health, and just a better quality of life.
@@shepshape2585 ngl i bought my giant tcr just because I've always really wanted a carbon bike with a nice groupset to go really fast. Not actually with any particular fitness goals in mind or doing long weekend rides. I just really, really like the engineering behind a nice machine and to feel it all mesh wonderfully together on the road.
@@fVNzO Many an adult has been separated from their cash because the bike was just too sexy to turn down. I have a friend who has a Trek Emonda painted a dark burgundy with black accents and it's a damn sexy bike. Integrated cockpit, the whole nine yards. Unfortunately, I do not have an unlimited budget. Still, I have a very nice Scott Solace with the Ultegra groupset and I love riding it.
Thanks a ton for this video! Finally a part 2 to the ever going discussion of weight in amateur cycling (part 1 being the uphill weight experiment, of course), again showing one thing: None of us mortals needs a 10 grand bike to go faster. Go out, train, have fun, have a little bit of pain from time to time and you´ll get faster while still having money in the bank. Who would have thought :D
Well, thank God I don't need a 10K bike because I refuse to pay that much for anything less than a car. I bought an older used bike, after scouring the local offerings, for $600 and it does everything I need it to. At one time, someone paid a lot of money for it brand new, but it wasn't me. It brings me plenty of enjoyment and I can still appreciate seeing everyone else's new expensive bikes when they buy them.
@@tonysadler5290 Well, iti s a thing that revolves around amateur road cyclists. I´ve been a road cyclist when I was younger and worked in a bike shop for quite some time and the discussions I had with people not wanting to buy a bike because another one is 200g lighter... When the rider was 110kg and trained once a week.. And I don´t havea problem with wanting to have a nice bike. It just feels good. I just think that, in amateur cycling, a lot of us should get back to the part where we realize it is a hobby and we do it for fun and do not need to have all the strava kom´s in the area to enjoy ourselves.
@@rgh622 Also: Some 2nd hand bikes turn out to be just pure gold once you replace a couple worn parts and give them a good clean! A ten-years-ago top spec bike can still be an absolute weapon today if treated nicely.
Agreed but a lot of things people buy … in fact around 99% of them they don’t actually need. If someone wants to spend 10 grand on a bike or 100 grand on a Tiffany IPhone case, outside of the obvious issue that people are still starving to death, then it’s just their choice.
Some people seem to find it far easier to spend a couple grand than lose a couple kilograms. Near as I can tell. I do neither, I just train as hard as I can and don't worry about it. But then... I'm old...
Hi Ollie, I love how you keep destroying "old cycling myths" : moving weight, tire width, and now +5W > -1kg... It's just so fun to bring these on the table with experienced cyclists that were always told the opposite... Good luck convincing them even with these kind of tests !
Love the GoldenEye references!!! Great work! Keep it up guys! You #GCN has been an inspiration as I got back on my bike this year and I look forward to riding as much as I can now. I lost 27 lbs or 12.25 kg (for my metric peeps) this year and I'm not stopping yet. Thank you for being my riding buddy! ❤️🚲
2 thing strike me about this. First regularly training to specific power indoors has evidently made making these videos much easier! Secondly, the small fairly marginal difference in power (whether from improved rider strength or improved equipment) produces a fair gap on the road. If you're someone who might get dropped regularly this indeed comforting....
It's always great to see theoretical situations tested with imperical data It might be more helpful to talk about 5 watts in relative terms so W/kg vs absolute quantities. 5 Watts is a lot for a smaller person than someone who is larger.
So quick math(s)... my system weight is roughly 100kg. So a 1 kg is 1%. I can probably maintain 200 watts on a decent climb so 5 watts is about 2.5%. I would therefore guess that all things being equal I would have to loose 2.5 kg of system weight to equal a five watt increase in power. See I didn't even need to go outside or find a dam or whatever. As a Brit living in the US I am saddened to say that Sir Colin Chapman's "Simplify and add Lightness" looses out to Mr Jeremy Clarkson's "More Power!!!".
Yeah thats about it, if you could maintain more than 5 watt/kg a kg is more beneficial than 5 watts (on a climb). So i would say for long climbs only pro’s and really good amateurs benefit from losing one kg. So if your added watts/ added kg is more than your watt/kg you benefit from it
Bear in mind that Chapman was running small capacity highly tuned motors and getting more power means less reliability, while Clarkson says "Why has this V12 only got one turbo charger?" :)
As a novice, it's also easier and safer to improve your performance than it is to strip 1 or 2 pounds off a carbon fiber road bike or the food/water/emergency kit that you might be carrying.
That moment you realize Ollie, the “Everyman” who is often the butt of gentle jokes from the former pros on the show, can somewhat casually ride up a mountain 30W better than your FTP.
When you also realize that Ollie absolutely torched one of GCN’s former pros (Connor) AND dropped Alberto Contador on the Tour des Stations! The guy is a beast.
I think there are a lot of amateurs, particularly older ones, who will struggle to improve power but are carrying some extra weight. It is certainly easier for me to lose weight than gain power, having trained pretty hard to get to the level I am. Like many over 40s, I am quite a bit heavier than I was in my 20s and my current goal is just to get back close to that weight. Having lost 5kg in the past 4 months, I am halfway there
Ollie was riding at less than 5w/kg so adding 5W would increase his power to weight more than losing 1 kg. It's not surprising he climbed faster with more power. A pro putting out 400W would be putting out nearly 6W/kg so saving a kg will be more important than 5 W to them. It would be more interesting to climb at matched W/kg to see if more power beats less weight.
at matched w/kg Lower weight cyclist will do better. Lower air resistance, plus he will have better v02 max as his body will need less oxygen compared to fat rider as he needs more oxygen for more body tissue
@@lukaskristanavicius4780 That is actually the opposite. Van Aert will almost always need less w/kg to match the speed of pogacar for instance. Could be around 0.5 w/kg less for not so steep gradients. Found it quite right in my case: usually I need the same w/kg than lighter mates only for 10-15% gradients. One key element is that CDA difference in climbing position is not as important as on the flat especially at the speeds most of us are climbing
@@lukaskristanavicius4780 at the same wkg a 80kg rider will beat a 70kg rider up most climbs under 9% gradient IF wkg is equal. More weight = more power and more power = more speed. Only the 10% grades does lighter riders at same wkg matter more.
@@durianriders wrong, no matter the gradient the heavier rider is always faster assuming the same w/kg. The maths is extremely clear on this. Even at 90% gradient hte heavier rider is faster for the same w/kg
The problem is, heavier riders do have more power but do not have the same power to weight ratio (assuming the same training level) just because their (absolute) VO2max would have to be so much higher and there is no direct relationship between body weight and VO2max. At matched W/kg you would be at same speed if you go exactly vertical - everything which is flatter than vertical more power is faster (assuming everything else is the same). Its simple physics. So going horizontal, weight is meaningless, it is just power versus air and rolling resistance - more is better, as long as you are not a parachute. (Does not relate to running, where body weight is always an issue).
My first reaction was: guys you’re nuts, it isn’t possible. Then I could finally test it myself by buying a new bike (the Cervélo S5 you featured in the bike vault!): more aero, tubeless tires, more weight (1.5kg heavier!) I did the same steady climb I use to monitor my fitness, around 1.5 km at 5% gradient. Result: exact same avg power (on the same quarq powermeter!) for 1kmh faster avg speed. A gain of around 4% with just increasing aero and rolling efficiency!
Great video however I would argue that if you want to improve time you need to improve power and lose weight. for example I started riding at 84kg and 225 Watts, 2 years later I was at 69kg and 330w. Losing weight does not necessarily mean you will lose power. only at those tour de france levels you need to find the ultimate power weight ratio but you need to be at 375w at least to start having that question
This pretty effectively proves that weight weenies are mental, whether amateur or pro. These dudes are obsessed with 0.1kg or lower differences (hi Tadej!), but even going with a bike setup with say 30mm deep rims vs 50-60mm depth to save 250g, it’s shooting themselves in the foot! The aero benefit at pro speeds from the deeper wheel will be much larger than the barely if at all noticeable slower climbing time from the 0.250kg higher weight
This is part of why I'm not too concerned about getting a carbon fibre bike first. I should be much fitter (aka thinner) and capable before I can tackle the savings that improvements in terms of material technology.
Also carbon fiber frames are not really a "material technology advancement". They are just a gimmick which dont serve almost no real benefit to a rider, besides rigidity. Oh, and more money margins for bike companies...
@@embuscadochifreinexplicaca5960 Carbon fiber frames for non-racing cyclists might be a gimmick depending on the purpose, but I'm willing to see some arguments for a carbon fibre seatpost. I heard they help dampen shocks fairly well, but one does wonder if that compliance can be seen even on cheaper carbon seat posts... IDK but it's worth looking into if the price isn't that exorbitant.
@@Relevant_Irrelevance dude, have you seen the price of a branded alloy vs carbon seatpost? If they give me 20% benefit of the price difference, Im all in
Good content, thanks. Also, Ollie, well done on showing off on your Tour des Stations - having Conor show how hard it really is. Ironically, i seem to put on weight over the summer, so I'll have to use the motivation to gain fitness and lose weight on Zwift winter riding again.
This is real motivation for someone who needs to loose 5-10kg, where is could mean upwards of a 50 watt performance improvement. That would be a significant gain for anyone.
that would only be true, if one can manage the same power output. And that's not possible :) You loose weight, you also loose a bit of power (in term of W/kg, not just absolute power). But of course it would help a lot - but the math is not linear at all :)
@@brunoandlydia That is not true, because the person in question is not fit in the first place (from the "needs to lose 5-10kg"). You start to ride, you lose weight and keep/gain power.
clean and lubed chain makes noticeable differences in longer rides. also quality chain is the cheapest way to improve efficiency. now I understand why some are so obsessed with chain type/maintenance after I have put more miles in the past two years than I had put on in past prior 20 years.
For someone who has always been more of a strength athlete who struggles with dropping weight because muscle builds too quickly (not the best thing for light cycling I feel!) that’s really great news. Just up the power. Result : D thanks for this (also interesting to note is in the opening shot I couldn’t help thinking you looked like one of those miniature figures photos… )
I don't have a power meter, but losing 30 pounds (14 kilos?) has made me a much better climber. And I have enjoyed all the foods I love during my weight loss journey, so no loss in fun.
Really liked the video - along with the part 1 from a few months ago. Thank you ! ... but ... wait a minute ... the end recommendation isn't much different from a recent write-in suggestion you received - and laughed at -for a pro-rider to beat some record: 'Just pedal faster' !!!
Every watt counts if you are the sole source of power! I have an e bike that in a low gear at low speeds under say about 10mph consumes about 25w to maintain speed on a straight so losing 5 w would be a 20% loss which isn't negligible at all. On a hill I would have thought the difference to be even more apparent.
When I load my 30kg bike trailer up with 120kg of gravel my power to weight ratio gets pretty low but I still make it up the hills thanks to the correct gear ratios.
Great video, to put into perspective the gains you can make that real matters. For the same time improvement at the same distance, I think it you need to make the same % improvement. 5W over 250W makes 2% of “improvement”; 5W over 400 makes 1,25%
Hey Ollie, great video, sound data. Have you thought about applying this to eBike battery range? Not the throttled ones but the Hybrids like Wilier is producing. We are seeing a difference in philosophies among eBike manufacturers with some making bigger, more powerful batteries and increasing overall weight vs. Wilier’s approach of lighter, more responsive bikes with ultra light motors. I’d love to hear your opinion and see testing on this.
Well yet again Thank you Dr Oli... I never put 'god mode watts' ... like 800 on a spike or 700 maybe on a lucky stressful explosion, the thing I got surprised when I took your advice and did the sufferfest 4DP, Results; am good rouleur, I was hoping for a climber as any Colombian will expect BUT my MAP power makes the difference to punch climbs like that one you just have tested... Since then I do value more my power but in order to sustain larger loads of workout ... for longer distances, longer climbs... I was at a point losing weight and looking for results even looking for lighter anything, I realised am comfortable in my weight and also on my equipment ... improving and now making those power numbers last longer has change a bit my experience and joy in the road, and off road.
FTP BLAHHH. BLAHHH Eddie didn’t have our care about a FTP. But great video Ollie as always very scientific. Plus beautiful back drop, only thing that would make it that much more stunning for us mere mortals at home, Upgrade. To 4K let’s us be able to soak it all in.
Well on it selve it sound simple,but there is more to it. It also plays a role where you lose weight. In a moving parts or a static part. If you lose weight on the outside of the moving parts(like wheels). You have more gain. Hence i wrote a piece of software to calc all this. Also the aerodynamic part( and and air density)
Ollie, does it matter how you make the power? Ie what gear? In my head 250w in a easy gear won't give as much speed as 250w in a hard gear. I know it comes down to cadence at the end of the day to generate the power.
its a really simple calculation . at pro level they ride at 5 watts per kg or more , so 1 at that power 5 watts should have roughly the same effect (or more) than 1kg
It would be interesting to measure the whole roundtrip (up and down) and see what difference a few watts make, and what difference a kilogram makes. More difficult of course since downhill cycling speed depends on some more intangible things, like daredeviledness and such.
Hi GCN. Environmental variables aside. Does the same rider averaging a set wattage up a climb produce the same time or can where you deliver the power on the climb change that. An example being if you rode hard on the steeper sections of a climb but then really easy on the flatter sections and produced an average of 300w and then another ride where you rode easy on the steeper sections and hard on the flatter sections but again produced 300w average, would it be the same time?
No. Due to the way wind resistance scales it's better to go harder on steep sections where you are moving slower The problem is that you probably won't be to produce the same average power using an uneven pacing strategy.
the best analogy is a box of match sticks. you have a set number of matches to burn for the day or for the event, whatever the case it is. when you're riding steady, you light one match, and let it burn before lighting the next one. but if you're doing surges at particular points, each surge may cost you two match sticks instead of just one. cuz as we all know, riding at 250 or 300watts is FAR easier than trying to maintain 400 for a lesser period of time. and so whenever you do a surge, you burn an extra match, and so you can potentially burn all your sticks and be forced to crawl to the finish, which kills your average in the long run.
Have been enjoying your videos over the last few years Ollie and finding them pretty inspirational! Could you let us know roughly what your weight in kg is for some context?
This is great, supposed you were really really tired (not as strong)...what about at 200w or even 150w? asking for a friend (this comment applies to other videos..for this friend 250w is a lot)
5 watts or 1 Kilo? What is this any more complicated than is that better than your current W/Kg output? Not many/any amateurs are 5w/Kg. I’m more like 3.1. So, anything higher than that would make me faster, right?
Great video and definitely agree last winter I did a load of training on my allez winter bike for the Fred Whitton. I set loads of PBs on a bike that was 1.5kg heavier than my TCR just by getting my FTP up from 295 to 312
In my situation five kilos would be 25 watts add 25 to ftp and we are looking at 50 watts difference so yeah each kilo matters until the last one so 2.83 vs 3.44 w/kilo . They all matter until they don’t 😃
We are riding this climb tomorrow. Thanks for the preview. A shame you couldn’t get Anamiek VV to join you as she’s been riding between Bormio and Livigno the last few days. Are you riding the Haute Route Dolomites next week?
Not a good test because the distance traveled is different every time. You could just have ridden less distance. Should have used a Speedometer on the wheels
Ollie may have lost a couple of hundred grams of hydration in the first run, and was therefore lighter during the second run. That would contribute to the two second discrepancy.
actually your explanation would make sense if he had gone 24* seconds faster on trial 2 instead of 20* seconds faster. If he had lost hydration it should have shown that he was going even faster than expected on his second run yet the opposite is true
Great Vid , but actually proves power and weight matter , if you can improve both without sacrifices to aerodynamics on a average grade climbs you are going to fly 😆
Errrr, it looks like Ollie dropped himself, eh. But all in the name of science. That was a very interesting demonstration, even though there were some random variables of unknown impact.
You need to hire some identical twins and have them ride the climb together with the same clothes and system weight, at different wattages to see differences. That would be a cool video.
What do you value more: power or weight?
Why choose one when you can achieve for both? 🤷🏻♂️😅😅
@@ruiloureiro3167 Well... one costs you more!
@@GCNuser123 true, but the extra body weight (almost) everyone can lose is entirely free 😉
Yes
Power, as a lighter rider i can use the watts also on the flat. It is normal that 5 watts is worth more than 1 kg for an amateur, if you dont have more than 5 watt/kg watts are more usefull
Great video Ollie. This is why beginning cyclists can stay motivated pretty easily. If you have some weight to lose and you're just getting started, the improvements will come pretty quickly. It's only when you're at your ideal weight and you've been riding consistently for quite a while that the improvements are much harder to come by. At some point you just have to be happy with where you are and just enjoy riding your bike. Plus, if I were lucky enough to be where you are, would I want to race up that climb, or take it nice and easy and enjoy the view?
I gotta say, it seems like every single comment on RUclips about starting out riding bikes is heavily assuming the beginner to be overweight.
I've never been overweight in my life but also saw very rapid gains in speed, very quickly.
So idk if it's just the norm to be fat around here but I don't think mega gains are exclusive to them starting out.
@@fVNzO I get what you’re saying, and of course many people begin cycling as an adult without being overweight. I just think, and I could be wrong, that the majority of adults who get into cycling do so to get ride of some weight and get fit. It may only be ten pounds, or it may be 200. I myself lost 160 through cycling. But in any case, the reason for getting on a bike isn’t really important. The important parts are the benefits that come from it. Better heart health, better mental health, and just a better quality of life.
@@shepshape2585 Well said🙂
@@shepshape2585 ngl i bought my giant tcr just because I've always really wanted a carbon bike with a nice groupset to go really fast. Not actually with any particular fitness goals in mind or doing long weekend rides. I just really, really like the engineering behind a nice machine and to feel it all mesh wonderfully together on the road.
@@fVNzO Many an adult has been separated from their cash because the bike was just too sexy to turn down. I have a friend who has a Trek Emonda painted a dark burgundy with black accents and it's a damn sexy bike. Integrated cockpit, the whole nine yards. Unfortunately, I do not have an unlimited budget. Still, I have a very nice Scott Solace with the Ultegra groupset and I love riding it.
Thanks a ton for this video! Finally a part 2 to the ever going discussion of weight in amateur cycling (part 1 being the uphill weight experiment, of course), again showing one thing:
None of us mortals needs a 10 grand bike to go faster.
Go out, train, have fun, have a little bit of pain from time to time and you´ll get faster while still having money in the bank. Who would have thought :D
Well, thank God I don't need a 10K bike because I refuse to pay that much for anything less than a car. I bought an older used bike, after scouring the local offerings, for $600 and it does everything I need it to. At one time, someone paid a lot of money for it brand new, but it wasn't me. It brings me plenty of enjoyment and I can still appreciate seeing everyone else's new expensive bikes when they buy them.
@@tonysadler5290 Well, iti s a thing that revolves around amateur road cyclists. I´ve been a road cyclist when I was younger and worked in a bike shop for quite some time and the discussions I had with people not wanting to buy a bike because another one is 200g lighter... When the rider was 110kg and trained once a week.. And I don´t havea problem with wanting to have a nice bike. It just feels good. I just think that, in amateur cycling, a lot of us should get back to the part where we realize it is a hobby and we do it for fun and do not need to have all the strava kom´s in the area to enjoy ourselves.
@@rgh622 Also: Some 2nd hand bikes turn out to be just pure gold once you replace a couple worn parts and give them a good clean! A ten-years-ago top spec bike can still be an absolute weapon today if treated nicely.
Agreed but a lot of things people buy … in fact around 99% of them they don’t actually need. If someone wants to spend 10 grand on a bike or 100 grand on a Tiffany IPhone case, outside of the obvious issue that people are still starving to death, then it’s just their choice.
Some people seem to find it far easier to spend a couple grand than lose a couple kilograms. Near as I can tell. I do neither, I just train as hard as I can and don't worry about it. But then... I'm old...
Hi Ollie, I love how you keep destroying "old cycling myths" : moving weight, tire width, and now +5W > -1kg... It's just so fun to bring these on the table with experienced cyclists that were always told the opposite... Good luck convincing them even with these kind of tests !
Sometimes you have to ruffle a few feathers to break the rulebook!
Love the GoldenEye references!!! Great work! Keep it up guys! You #GCN has been an inspiration as I got back on my bike this year and I look forward to riding as much as I can now. I lost 27 lbs or 12.25 kg (for my metric peeps) this year and I'm not stopping yet. Thank you for being my riding buddy! ❤️🚲
2 thing strike me about this. First regularly training to specific power indoors has evidently made making these videos much easier! Secondly, the small fairly marginal difference in power (whether from improved rider strength or improved equipment) produces a fair gap on the road. If you're someone who might get dropped regularly this indeed comforting....
Ollie talk quite normal at 255 watt. That is for me impressive!
It just depends of your weight... Ollie is 78kg, this is just 3,26W/kg...
I weight 55 kg, 255W is for me 4,62 W/Kg it is not the same at all !
Ollie: 250 watts is something a lot of amateurs would do up here
Me: awkward seal face
To be fair he said good amateurs. Amateur can be a beginner all the way to just under pro.
@@DB-sj8km and 250 isn't even really good, for a climbing wattage. It's ok, but good is like 275
Exactly the content I'm looking for and why I'm a fan of GCN!
Ollie has become a master at nailing the prescribed power number.
Good to know riding my 15kg gravel bike doesn't slow me down, just me being weak😏
I very much enjoy seeing Ollie out in the field gathering data. The man works hard for it.
It's always great to see theoretical situations tested with imperical data It might be more helpful to talk about 5 watts in relative terms so W/kg vs absolute quantities. 5 Watts is a lot for a smaller person than someone who is larger.
These kind of videos are the best stuff GCN makes! Thanks!
As a 95 kg male i could really feel the difference after lightening my bike by 300g it makes all the difference. Had a couple of pints to celebrate
So quick math(s)... my system weight is roughly 100kg. So a 1 kg is 1%. I can probably maintain 200 watts on a decent climb so 5 watts is about 2.5%. I would therefore guess that all things being equal I would have to loose 2.5 kg of system weight to equal a five watt increase in power.
See I didn't even need to go outside or find a dam or whatever. As a Brit living in the US I am saddened to say that Sir Colin Chapman's "Simplify and add Lightness" looses out to Mr Jeremy Clarkson's "More Power!!!".
Yeah thats about it, if you could maintain more than 5 watt/kg a kg is more beneficial than 5 watts (on a climb). So i would say for long climbs only pro’s and really good amateurs benefit from losing one kg. So if your added watts/ added kg is more than your watt/kg you benefit from it
Bear in mind that Chapman was running small capacity highly tuned motors and getting more power means less reliability, while Clarkson says "Why has this V12 only got one turbo charger?" :)
strict breed trait instinct men will go colin over Jeremy...ones a genius and ones funny . Colin IS a road bike clarkson is a cr450f 😂
WOW...what a place ! Thanks for sharing ...Ollie and crew .
All I hear is DOCTOR Bridgewood prescribes more pizza for my health.
live your life!
Very sciency, loved this one! Thanks Ollie!
As a novice, it's also easier and safer to improve your performance than it is to strip 1 or 2 pounds off a carbon fiber road bike or the food/water/emergency kit that you might be carrying.
That moment you realize Ollie, the “Everyman” who is often the butt of gentle jokes from the former pros on the show, can somewhat casually ride up a mountain 30W better than your FTP.
Ollie would smash 99% of GCN viewers, no doubt 🙂
Ollie has held 350 (5.2 W/Kg) for more than an hour, so yeah ...not exactly every man.
255 is 30w better than your ftp?
@@notreally2406 lol don’t hate!
When you also realize that Ollie absolutely torched one of GCN’s former pros (Connor) AND dropped Alberto Contador on the Tour des Stations! The guy is a beast.
I could happily just watch 10 minutes of B Roll of Ollie just riding up and down that magnificent climb.
Thanks Dr. Oliver Bridgewood !! Cannot beat a rider with a Ph.D. in Chemistry. Math & Physics, definitely can't cheat that. 🙂
I think there are a lot of amateurs, particularly older ones, who will struggle to improve power but are carrying some extra weight. It is certainly easier for me to lose weight than gain power, having trained pretty hard to get to the level I am. Like many over 40s, I am quite a bit heavier than I was in my 20s and my current goal is just to get back close to that weight. Having lost 5kg in the past 4 months, I am halfway there
Me too! I’m 41 and deadly determined to get below 15 percent body fat.
Ollie always make good quality content for GCN 👍🏼
Ollie was riding at less than 5w/kg so adding 5W would increase his power to weight more than losing 1 kg. It's not surprising he climbed faster with more power.
A pro putting out 400W would be putting out nearly 6W/kg so saving a kg will be more important than 5 W to them.
It would be more interesting to climb at matched W/kg to see if more power beats less weight.
at matched w/kg Lower weight cyclist will do better. Lower air resistance, plus he will have better v02 max as his body will need less oxygen compared to fat rider as he needs more oxygen for more body tissue
@@lukaskristanavicius4780 That is actually the opposite. Van Aert will almost always need less w/kg to match the speed of pogacar for instance. Could be around 0.5 w/kg less for not so steep gradients. Found it quite right in my case: usually I need the same w/kg than lighter mates only for 10-15% gradients. One key element is that CDA difference in climbing position is not as important as on the flat especially at the speeds most of us are climbing
@@lukaskristanavicius4780 at the same wkg a 80kg rider will beat a 70kg rider up most climbs under 9% gradient IF wkg is equal. More weight = more power and more power = more speed.
Only the 10% grades does lighter riders at same wkg matter more.
@@durianriders wrong, no matter the gradient the heavier rider is always faster assuming the same w/kg. The maths is extremely clear on this. Even at 90% gradient hte heavier rider is faster for the same w/kg
The problem is, heavier riders do have more power but do not have the same power to weight ratio (assuming the same training level) just because their (absolute) VO2max would have to be so much higher and there is no direct relationship between body weight and VO2max.
At matched W/kg you would be at same speed if you go exactly vertical - everything which is flatter than vertical more power is faster (assuming everything else is the same). Its simple physics.
So going horizontal, weight is meaningless, it is just power versus air and rolling resistance - more is better, as long as you are not a parachute. (Does not relate to running, where body weight is always an issue).
This is amazing insight 👌👌👌
Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I love Ollie physic-ing and math-ing!
Congrats Phil! and Jeremy is a natural at commentating and filming!
I subscribe to both GCN and GTN and enjoy both. But, as a data nerd, GCN has more to teach me. Thank you Sir Ollie
Very nicely done, Ollie! Simple and informative (plus you get to go to awesome Italian locations...).
My first reaction was: guys you’re nuts, it isn’t possible.
Then I could finally test it myself by buying a new bike (the Cervélo S5 you featured in the bike vault!): more aero, tubeless tires, more weight (1.5kg heavier!)
I did the same steady climb I use to monitor my fitness, around 1.5 km at 5% gradient.
Result: exact same avg power (on the same quarq powermeter!) for 1kmh faster avg speed. A gain of around 4% with just increasing aero and rolling efficiency!
Excellent subject matter Ollie and very educational.
I'm 60kg over my race weight and around 200W less on FTP too. I feel like I am 10% the rider I was in my teens and 20s..
Great job as always!!
Thanks Richard, hope it was useful!
Another great video *but* a lot of us don't have a system weight of 75kg or are able to do 250W for 20 mins. How about doing this at 85kg and 200W?
Great video however I would argue that if you want to improve time you need to improve power and lose weight. for example I started riding at 84kg and 225 Watts, 2 years later I was at 69kg and 330w. Losing weight does not necessarily mean you will lose power. only at those tour de france levels you need to find the ultimate power weight ratio but you need to be at 375w at least to start having that question
position is much better these days.... spot on
This pretty effectively proves that weight weenies are mental, whether amateur or pro. These dudes are obsessed with 0.1kg or lower differences (hi Tadej!), but even going with a bike setup with say 30mm deep rims vs 50-60mm depth to save 250g, it’s shooting themselves in the foot! The aero benefit at pro speeds from the deeper wheel will be much larger than the barely if at all noticeable slower climbing time from the 0.250kg higher weight
Very handy video 👍🏼
This is part of why I'm not too concerned about getting a carbon fibre bike first. I should be much fitter (aka thinner) and capable before I can tackle the savings that improvements in terms of material technology.
Also carbon fiber frames are not really a "material technology advancement". They are just a gimmick which dont serve almost no real benefit to a rider, besides rigidity. Oh, and more money margins for bike companies...
@@embuscadochifreinexplicaca5960 Carbon fiber frames for non-racing cyclists might be a gimmick depending on the purpose, but I'm willing to see some arguments for a carbon fibre seatpost. I heard they help dampen shocks fairly well, but one does wonder if that compliance can be seen even on cheaper carbon seat posts... IDK but it's worth looking into if the price isn't that exorbitant.
@@Relevant_Irrelevance dude, have you seen the price of a branded alloy vs carbon seatpost? If they give me 20% benefit of the price difference, Im all in
Interesting insights here, top video, cheers Oli 👍🏻
Good content, thanks. Also, Ollie, well done on showing off on your Tour des Stations - having Conor show how hard it really is. Ironically, i seem to put on weight over the summer, so I'll have to use the motivation to gain fitness and lose weight on Zwift winter riding again.
This is real motivation for someone who needs to loose 5-10kg, where is could mean upwards of a 50 watt performance improvement. That would be a significant gain for anyone.
well me gain 5 avg speed on same road
that would only be true, if one can manage the same power output. And that's not possible :) You loose weight, you also loose a bit of power (in term of W/kg, not just absolute power). But of course it would help a lot - but the math is not linear at all :)
@@brunoandlydia That is not true, because the person in question is not fit in the first place (from the "needs to lose 5-10kg"). You start to ride, you lose weight and keep/gain power.
clean and lubed chain makes noticeable differences in longer rides. also quality chain is the cheapest way to improve efficiency. now I understand why some are so obsessed with chain type/maintenance after I have put more miles in the past two years than I had put on in past prior 20 years.
Watching this even though my most common bike ride has 130-140kg on road (mtb, rider, kid on back trash talking my speed, stuff)
Your hypothesis assumes that I cannot maintain 5 watts/kg. I find this presumptive and insulting. Accurate, but presumptive and insulting.
I am also insulted! But for no reason, cause it’s not a lie 😬
No it doesn't
I can maintain 5W/kg.. for 1 minute
I assumed you were a 6.5 watt per kg rider. Just like average, you know? Haha
"250 watts because I can talk at that power" 😳
Yes Ollie, you're right. Margarine Gains!
the faster you go, the less a 5w difference makes, air drag is exponential.
True, but this a fairly steep average gradient, so speed wouldn’t be above 20 kph for nearly everyone.
For someone who has always been more of a strength athlete who struggles with dropping weight because muscle builds too quickly (not the best thing for light cycling I feel!) that’s really great news. Just up the power. Result : D thanks for this (also interesting to note is in the opening shot I couldn’t help thinking you looked like one of those miniature figures photos… )
That opening shot got me too. I thought Ollie had found a way to lower his system weight through miniaturisation. Genius
@@usernametaken9179 🤣
I don't have a power meter, but losing 30 pounds (14 kilos?) has made me a much better climber. And I have enjoyed all the foods I love during my weight loss journey, so no loss in fun.
Really liked the video - along with the part 1 from a few months ago. Thank you !
... but ... wait a minute ... the end recommendation isn't much different from a recent write-in suggestion you received - and laughed at -for a pro-rider to beat some record:
'Just pedal faster' !!!
Every watt counts if you are the sole source of power! I have an e bike that in a low gear at low speeds under say about 10mph consumes about 25w to maintain speed on a straight so losing 5 w would be a 20% loss which isn't negligible at all. On a hill I would have thought the difference to be even more apparent.
When I load my 30kg bike trailer up with 120kg of gravel my power to weight ratio gets pretty low but I still make it up the hills thanks to the correct gear ratios.
Awesome video. I probably should have known that the faster you are the more weight matters, but didn’t.
Great video, to put into perspective the gains you can make that real matters.
For the same time improvement at the same distance, I think it you need to make the same % improvement. 5W over 250W makes 2% of “improvement”; 5W over 400 makes 1,25%
Hey Ollie, great video, sound data. Have you thought about applying this to eBike battery range? Not the throttled ones but the Hybrids like Wilier is producing. We are seeing a difference in philosophies among eBike manufacturers with some making bigger, more powerful batteries and increasing overall weight vs. Wilier’s approach of lighter, more responsive bikes with ultra light motors. I’d love to hear your opinion and see testing on this.
Well yet again Thank you Dr Oli...
I never put 'god mode watts' ... like 800 on a spike or 700 maybe on a lucky stressful explosion, the thing I got surprised when I took your advice and did the sufferfest 4DP, Results; am good rouleur, I was hoping for a climber as any Colombian will expect BUT my MAP power makes the difference to punch climbs like that one you just have tested...
Since then I do value more my power but in order to sustain larger loads of workout ... for longer distances, longer climbs... I was at a point losing weight and looking for results even looking for lighter anything, I realised am comfortable in my weight and also on my equipment ... improving and now making those power numbers last longer has change a bit my experience and joy in the road, and off road.
now THATS a good Comment ! 👌
congratulations 💪
Great vídeo, I will work on my watts!!!!!!
That dam does look like Goldeneye, and parts of the climb remind me of scenes from Casino Royale LOL thanks for that Ollie!
FTP BLAHHH. BLAHHH Eddie didn’t have our care about a FTP.
But great video Ollie as always very scientific. Plus beautiful back drop, only thing that would make it that much more stunning for us mere mortals at home, Upgrade. To 4K let’s us be able to soak it all in.
Excellent news. Off for some beers and cake. 😂
Well on it selve it sound simple,but there is more to it.
It also plays a role where you lose weight.
In a moving parts or a static part.
If you lose weight on the outside of the moving parts(like wheels).
You have more gain.
Hence i wrote a piece of software to calc all this.
Also the aerodynamic part( and and air density)
Ollie, does it matter how you make the power? Ie what gear? In my head 250w in a easy gear won't give as much speed as 250w in a hard gear. I know it comes down to cadence at the end of the day to generate the power.
5 Watts. Great show-off.
What about the wind? - 10km/h front- or backwind makes 100 watts difference?
Would be interesting.
its a really simple calculation . at pro level they ride at 5 watts per kg or more , so 1 at that power 5 watts should have roughly the same effect (or more) than 1kg
Greeeeeeeeat scenery!!! and I may want to doit regardless of how long I spend for it...
Honestly I would have never guessed 5 watts has this kind of impact
A 2% increase in power leading to a 2% time reduction... Quite predictable. 1kg saving would represent less than 1.5% total weight reduction
Get il bandito and feather up there!
It would be interesting to measure the whole roundtrip (up and down) and see what difference a few watts make, and what difference a kilogram makes. More difficult of course since downhill cycling speed depends on some more intangible things, like daredeviledness and such.
#askgcntech how many watts difference from running my tubeless tyres at 80psi compared to 70psi or 90psi?
Hi GCN. Environmental variables aside. Does the same rider averaging a set wattage up a climb produce the same time or can where you deliver the power on the climb change that. An example being if you rode hard on the steeper sections of a climb but then really easy on the flatter sections and produced an average of 300w and then another ride where you rode easy on the steeper sections and hard on the flatter sections but again produced 300w average, would it be the same time?
No. Due to the way wind resistance scales it's better to go harder on steep sections where you are moving slower The problem is that you probably won't be to produce the same average power using an uneven pacing strategy.
the best analogy is a box of match sticks. you have a set number of matches to burn for the day or for the event, whatever the case it is.
when you're riding steady, you light one match, and let it burn before lighting the next one.
but if you're doing surges at particular points, each surge may cost you two match sticks instead of just one. cuz as we all know, riding at 250 or 300watts is FAR easier than trying to maintain 400 for a lesser period of time.
and so whenever you do a surge, you burn an extra match, and so you can potentially burn all your sticks and be forced to crawl to the finish, which kills your average in the long run.
Gonna drink more beer ‘cause olllie told me to.
For a well trained cyclist, it's probably easier to lose 1 kg than improve FTP by 5 watts.
Have been enjoying your videos over the last few years Ollie and finding them pretty inspirational! Could you let us know roughly what your weight in kg is for some context?
were forgetting the air reistance is (velocity squared)
5W is 2% from 250W, should make ca 2% difference or 20sec on 17 minutes ride,(1000sec) + compensate for aero losses
Can anyone else ride bang on whatever watt they chose? I can't. Kudos Ollie!!!
cheers mate
Do you have a power meter?
@@bindingcurve yes
0 vs 5w or 1 vs 6w has to be a massive difference 😜
This is great, supposed you were really really tired (not as strong)...what about at 200w or even 150w? asking for a friend (this comment applies to other videos..for this friend 250w is a lot)
Is the gain by losing 1kg actually constant or do you also gain more by losing 1kg at 70kg system weight than at say 100kg system weight ?
5 watts or 1 Kilo? What is this any more complicated than is that better than your current W/Kg output? Not many/any amateurs are 5w/Kg. I’m more like 3.1. So, anything higher than that would make me faster, right?
How much power would you save if you was drafting someone ?
Hello Ollie - Is there a "Maths and Physics" app available to let us perform such calculations?
I could be wrong but it looks like you have significant pronation with your left leg.
Great video and definitely agree last winter I did a load of training on my allez winter bike for the Fred Whitton.
I set loads of PBs on a bike that was 1.5kg heavier than my TCR just by getting my FTP up from 295 to 312
Just !!!! Depending on your age and experience that’s a bloody great improvement. Chapeau. I would love to have your before number BTW
5 Watts is 30 seconds on a 20min climb ! That's hughe !
In my situation five kilos would be 25 watts add 25 to ftp and we are looking at 50 watts difference so yeah each kilo matters until the last one so 2.83 vs 3.44 w/kilo . They all matter until they don’t 😃
We are riding this climb tomorrow. Thanks for the preview. A shame you couldn’t get Anamiek VV to join you as she’s been riding between Bormio and Livigno the last few days. Are you riding the Haute Route Dolomites next week?
This was filmed in May!
@@GCNuser123 Too bad! Wanted a photo op w Rock Star Ollie!
that dude in front of you is fast!
Should have weighed yourself+bike at the start and at the end of each ride to ensure perspiration loss is considered.
Kinda interesting video...however, my FTP is less than 250w so I'd get "Ollie'd"...dropped by, well, Ollie. 🤣
Very nice video
Not a good test because the distance traveled is different every time. You could just have ridden less distance. Should have used a Speedometer on the wheels
How about an aero sock test. Does it make a difference? At 200w for us meer mortals.
Ollie may have lost a couple of hundred grams of hydration in the first run, and was therefore lighter during the second run.
That would contribute to the two second discrepancy.
actually your explanation would make sense if he had gone 24* seconds faster on trial 2 instead of 20* seconds faster. If he had lost hydration it should have shown that he was going even faster than expected on his second run yet the opposite is true
He even held his pee when doing the rotating wheel video, what make you think he would drink on a 19 mins climb.
Great Vid , but actually proves power and weight matter , if you can improve both without sacrifices to aerodynamics on a average grade climbs you are going to fly 😆
Errrr, it looks like Ollie dropped himself, eh. But all in the name of science. That was a very interesting demonstration, even though there were some random variables of unknown impact.
You need to hire some identical twins and have them ride the climb together with the same clothes and system weight, at different wattages to see differences. That would be a cool video.
They're only identical at birth.
@@stevek8829 well they’ll be as close as you can get to the same CdA if they take the same position and clothes.