This episode does a lot of the heavy lifting for Maximus character. You realize how little the Brotherhood prepared him for any kind of life besides service to them. Everyone is effectively in a "cult": Lucy, Vault 4, the Brotherhood, Vault-Tec, etc. They know so much about what their cults care about, but so little about what their cults don't care about or what effectively undermines the cults' ideals.
The knight and squire followed the footsteps, and the radiation trail left by the ghoul, to the place where the head was lost to the Gulper. Lucy is tracking the head with her "championship watch". The ghoul is using the dog who is leading him to the head. The head is being tracked by technology, a bloodhound, and a radiation detector gun thingy.
^^^^ This is correct, though I was also confused my first watch but of course now I’m watching it through other people like here so now it’s clear. They kinda only say things once or twice pretty clearly. I think either way it’s just nice to have the characters meet up. :3
The thing is, there are half a dozen reasons that make sense to potentially explain it, if people actually think. But so many shows these days talk down to their audience by explaining everything little thing, so they don't think. They just assume if it's not laid out right in front of them it's a 'coincidence' that just happens.
The tracker isn't leaving a trail but the pipboy is displaying the location on a map. Seeing where it was then seeing where it moved to and running into a part of the ruined city that is too dangerous or difficult to traverse is reasonable. Going to where you last saw your tracker stationary to avoid said dangers is also reasonable. Anybody that played Fallout3 and did quests in the DC ruins understands.
If that is the only way to understand it, then the show is not doing a good enough job telling the story. A TV show based on some other kind of media should be able to stand on its own legs.
Two-headed bear was flag of ncr where maximus survived bombing from. Ncr was a major faction in new vegas and Fallout 2. Also that blackboard caused a lot of arguments in game community.
I think it's a wider discussion on whether or not something is trying to be a good show or a perfect adaptation because those things aren't always the same. I think about Harry Potter a lot when I think about adaptations because the sixth book was easily my least favorite, but it was my favorite movie. The third book was my favorite book, and my least favorite movie. Maybe I'm just harder on the third movie, but objectively. I think that the sixth one took a lot more liberties and that's why it was a better movie. It wasn't trying to be the best adaptation of the book, it was trying to be a good movie.
@@HannaHsOverInvested That's really interesting that the third movie ended up being your least favorite, given, at least anecdotally, it feels like that's the one most people put if not #1 then top 3. (It's not my favorite; DH 2 is, followed by Goblet, and then I'm not sure.) It's also been a LONG time since I've read the books so I don't remember all of the changes, of course.
1:53 The show doesn't specifically show a tracking path, however, the games themselves DO make a connector-line betweenm you and your target, or at least 'have that functionality' (not all games show the straight line). Needless to say, there's bells and whistles on it, and her tracking the head with it wouln't be difficult. We see Ma June put the coordinates for Moldaver's place in her pip-boy and many other functionalities it has. It is reasonable that it either has a log of where the tracker has went, or just that Lucy is going to be prudent and check it often. It fits with the way her character is written.
This was my favorite episode of the season. The flashback stuff with Walton Goggins is just SO damn good. Also: major chills when Lucy unfurls the flag and we hear the Fallout theme for the first time in the series.
It is a beautiful thing to watch, this glorious series slowly eroding HannaH's sanity, bit by bit. After the end, when some scavenger searches her rooms for loot, they might find these logs and learn about her story ...
The timeline is definitely a little weird. I’m disappointed that the NCR is as fringe as they are in this area, since I usually sided with them in the preceding game, Fallout: New Vegas. Probably the least bad faction in the area at the time.
1:38 OMG bless you!!! 😂😂 That is fuggin hilarious. Also, I'll totally concede it was convenient for her to come across Maximus as the Radroaches got there. But that's just some nice drama to add to the scene. It was in the morning, probably the very next morning by the way the shots worked out, which is a good timme for things to find this guy simmering in man-juice inside that suit, giving off a nice smell for the roaches. lololol. I don't know that the tracker itself left a 'trail' per se, but if Lucy is tracking this thing, she's going to be checking it often to see where it's headed. If you check it before bed and it's at x, y, and in the morning it's at x, y+500 feet or whatever, then you know it went in a straight line. Just following after the head and it's heading (lol) will make you pass through the areas it passed through. Furthermore, it would behoove Lucy to explore these railway stations and all that for loot etc., and she may have wanted to take a break to rest anyhow as she was radiation poisoned. I know there's some contrivance if you dig, but it really does make sense.
The show makes it very clear that The Ghoul and other irradiated creatures leave a radiation trail - which is what Maximus and Thadius were following - and that the head has a tracker that pings the exact location on the pip-boy screen - which is what Lucy is following. So you are correct; it makes far more sense for Lucy to go in a straight line (straight as she can anyway) right towards the head, as opposed to following a trail that would lead her to places the head has been. One can come up with all kinds of excuses - based purely on conjecture - for why this makes perfect sense, but once again, all that's really happening is that the show is 8 episodes long, and we gots to keep the plot moving. It's perfectly reasonable to be annoyed by these plot-conveniences and still love the show, which clearly you do. 👍🏽
I don't blame you for wanting to jump into the next episode. I am also a glutton for stories that intrigue me (read all of the Wheel of Time books in less than a month).
I didn't plan to, but I ended up binging it all in a single seating. I'm not even into reaction stuff, but Fallout is kind of an exception - I want to see it all. Many, especially fans of the games, pick on on references that I completely missed.
In the Falout game, you happen upon story arcs all the time as it is with most game designs. I personally believe the "coincidences" you see are intentionally there to remind you that this is taken from a game world. I feel that as soon as the show draws you in, it kicks you out with an obvious plot device to move the show/game forward and it's what makes this show feel different from others that are based on games like "The Last Of Us." for example.
I almost feel like Maximus is being built up to become a villain later. Two of some of the best villains in Fallout are fallen members of the Brotherhood of Steel. Lord Ashur of the Pitt was a Brotherhood Paladin who was left for dead during the Scourge of the Pitt, a vicious campaign in the heavily irradiated Pittsburgh. Clinging to life, he found the city's thriving steel mills had been left perfect preserved, and built a vast empire of industry and slavery out of it. He's a little bothered by the atrocities he commits, but believes that the future he's building is worth any cost. Father Elijah was a Brotherhood researcher obsessed with technology. He sacrificed countless lives at the Battle of Helios One in mad bid to unlock the power plant/super weapon's secrets and destroy the attacking NCR. Instead, the Brotherhood limped into retreat and he fled alone in disgrace, and he carved a bloody path through the Mojave in his quest for vengeance. He's putting bombs on the necks of kidnapped wanderers, and forcing them through the security system of a haunted casino, all so he can access the vault of old world superscience inside and unleash them on the world. He wants to plunge the world into a second apocalypse, murder everyone that could possibly remember his humiliation, until its just him left. Alone, atop the Helios One.
Yes you are right to hate max, people are talking to you as if you have watched the whole show yet. Also the convenance is more so its fallout, convenance is the series, the universe itself has a luck stat, and yes it is just all so convenient, but that is the series. Also you just had to notice the tracker on her pipboy was showing a trail not a map. A lot of stuff is more so that the universe of fallout is literally a 80's movie as a universe, so much so there is even a "S.P.E.C.I.A.L." system. Luck exists as an actual thing although unbeknownst to the characters in the world. Don't take it too seriously, think of it like a silly 80's movie. Also a thing to remember, yes max was an asshole to thaddeus, but something idk if you remembered, thaddeus was one of the guys who was beating max up when we first saw him. So yeah he was a massive dick to thaddeus right away, most def cause thaddeus was a dude who beat him up on the regular. So it is hard to FULLY blame Maximus for how he treated the guy.
I loved this series, but your criticisms about various plot conveniences are spot on. That's something I picked up on as well. Them all running into each other in Philly in the second episode......ok fine a bit contrived but the season is short so the plot needs to go fast. But the way they kept just happening to run into each other after that pushed the limits of acceptance for me. It was one of the few negatives i came away from the show with. Did you get the popcorn?
Don't worry. I get accused of working at a factory because I want to pay my bills all the time. Nope, I just love sacrificing my health and peace of mind for faceless corporations. Silly people.
9:41 yeah 😊😢😅 He's so innocent and naive in a way, and is just stuck in that childhood he got taken away from him. Officially, he has 4 Intelligence out of 10. He's actually legitimately not smart. But yeah his character is so complicated and awesome.
6:17 nah, Maximus just never got the birds and bees talk… BOS don’t ban sex… infact, quite the opposite. They tend to not recruit out of the BOS, meaning they’re born into the order.
I don’t even need to begin watching, it’s in the title 😂 “Is Maximus smart?” Nah. I don’t even know what about but nah. I’ll be back to see if I was right. Edit: I’m back! I think I get it 😂 I think I’ve found out that you have a healthy respect for PARANOID people, or people that follow your paranoid feelings 😂 The SECOND Lucy was alright and cozy you flipped to Max like “yo buddy this is weird right?” And max was like “yeah… hey what’s that, what’s oysters?” 😂
Been waiting for this one… this is like, the episode that saves Maximus’ character for me. And it’s that incredibly awkward moment with Lucy. Like I watched that and thought of the people who politicize sex ed, who want to limit or worse ban it. Maximus is the kind of kid they might shape, a victim of a cult. And a quasi medieval, militaristic cult at that. They taught him how to identify pre-war tech, take orders, and how to kill things. Not the birds and the bees. The conversation in overseer’s office was also I think great satire. Idk about you, but I’ve been in Lucy’s shoes while a friendly authority figure told an awkward racist joke. It’s not fun 😅 Thank you for doing this series! Maybe the show didn’t explain the pip boys very well, as someone who’s played the games that didn’t require much establishment for me. In the games the pip boy is your menu, you use it as a map to track objectives, use equipment, eat, drink, listen to radio, everything. Within the lore of the show it’s like a 1950s-iPhone. Tracks your daily steps and has a built in Geiger counter. TLDR thanks for watching the show! I think max is a good, but flawed character lol.
I never found maximus stupid but rather having the growth mentality of a child and that due to growing into the Brotherhood without proper parents. If anything Maximus ENDURANCE stats is off the roof. Man can take a beating like a boss and has multiple times.
The only reason Maximus said it's a cult is because everyone in the Vault seems happy to be there and to be with each other. He wasn't being smart at all. Just wasn't used to seeing people be happy.
The timing issues don't stand out to people who played the game a lot, as the acting only happens when you show up. You are directed to Concord Mass. in Fallout 4, and find Museum of Freedom under attack by Gristle's raiders. However if you don't go there and end up doing other things for an entire in game year, the attack will still be going on when you get there.
I liked the show, but as opposed to the TLOU show, I'd be personally offended if you didn't see these issues with this one XD (as every single reaction channel don't see them)
Well, it was also a nice cleared street in a destroyed city. People tend to walk on natural paths 😛 And I love the common religious rituals being combined, and returned to it’s primal Nature as the Cult
Yeah I will say, this show had a great way of making me care about all the plotlines towards the later episodes. The intrigue and suspense was built up quite well IMO.
they don’t explain it in the show and leave it up to the viewers to figure this out…. That’s a spray of anesthetics and aphrodisiacs…. That’s why they have the weird ass out of no where conversation.
5:47 they don’t explain it in the show and leave it up to the viewers to figure this out…. That’s a spray of anesthetics and aphrodisiacs…. That’s why they have the weird ass out of no where conversation.
I think the way they made it was like a game, so events dont make complete sense compared to a normal show. such as in a game you end up becoming a member of absolutely every faction possible while being a nobody in a story.
All of the stories are related. So the storylines are essentially one big story. They're not going to give you all the answers and information in one episode.
Wait... I've watched you react to Fallout game play? "Non Gamer Watches FALLOUT" So why are surprised about all the "plot armor"? Welcome to the "F-Up" world of "video game logic".
And then in other stories they bend over backwards to avoid coincidence, and instead just write a bad story, that includes details irrelevant to the story. The audience doesn't need every detail. We know they eat and poop, but we leave those parts out of the story, unless they are somehow relevant to the plot. Every object on stage is there for a reason, and every object that isn't, is a mistake, and a potential distraction. This is just as true of everything DONE on stage.
The New California Republic is one element of the show that I wish they had explained better. That civilization rebuilt itself after the bombs fell as the NCR, but that it was in turn wiped out by a big bomb is a pretty big plot point, but only talked about briefly. It's pretty clear if you've played the games where the NCR is a big deal, but if you're coming into the show fresh you might end up conflating the bombs from the beginning with the ones that wiped out Maximus' hometown centuries later.
And the thing is... they kind of WANT you to be a little confused about it for an episode or so (as set up by Maximus's 'the bombs fell when I was a kid' line), but they could definitely have stood to clarify the issue in the classroom more effectively.
I thought the conveniences of the first couple episodes were pretty bad, with everyone randomly running into each other with zero effort. The more recent stuff didn't really bother me because they are all tracking the head, and have established good explanations of how that is done. Lucy running into Maximus there did slightly bother me, but only because they showed Thadeus leaving out the same entrance, and therefore presumably not going in a straight line that would have led her there. However, I'm willing to overlook that because I'm sure it's a budget thing - they only had the money to create one view of that underpass area, so they couldn't show Thaddeus leaving the other direction without building a lot more set, in order to show it for just a couple seconds. Probably could have done something better, but I'm sure they figured that Lucy having a tracker was all the explanation the show really needed. It's not crazy to assume she saw the head parked there for a night and decided to check out the place for clues on who had it, and then get back onto the path again from there. And while yes, it's convenient that Lucy arrives just in time to shoot the bugs and then lets him out just in time to get healed with his medicine, that's just how stories work. No plot would ever work without some stuff like that. Anyway, in general I think it's a fair criticism of the show to complain about, but I also think the show isn't really going for perfect realism like that. The show has very much been winking at the audience a few times, such as the turret that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the beginning of episode 2, the magical healing stimpaks, etc. as nods to the game. I think similarly having characters that follow maps to eventually all meet up at opportune times fits perfectly into that, the way that quests in the game would be provided. It's subtle enough to not really bother most people, at least as long as they are enjoying the show. I think it's one of those things people will nitpick over if they aren't enjoying the show, as a way to explain why besides just saying the plot sucks or the characters are boring.
There's a ton of convenience that this show kind of glosses over. Even the ubernerds have pulled out in-game maps to showcase how wild it is they they just keep bumping into each other. Thankfully, if you can get over that writing sin the rest of the show is a rocking good time imo. But I would never besmirch someone being turned off by the seemingly lazy writing of how much everyone comes together.
I find it funny how some of the comments in your previous videos were so defensive of your critiques. “How dare you have problems with a show’s plot holes and characters?” I’d chalk it up to how invested they are in this show. I guess you could say they’re a bit…over invested.
40% of the comment section is people having a problem with my opinions of the show, but that's okay! Sometimes I get new perspective from those comments.
Hahaha that made me laugh "she only doing this for views", well duh, who makes videos for youtube if not to get other people to watch? Do people think mrBeast make the vidoes hes does, if not to get views? :P I love your Hanna with an H :D
Idk if you caught it. But during the intro with Cooper they talk about how vault 4 is being used to test what radiation does to the human body... Thus one eye and double nose, and birthing fish, and.... Caviar in a vault that has been sealed away for hundreds of years...
You're right. The show is not above convenient coincidences. Episode 2 had Knight Titus and Maximus get out early right near the Target encounered the cave. Wilzig and CX404 just happen to meet Lucy iust begore a rad roach attacked her in sleep. The vaulties happen to make it to the outer door just as Lucy's about to leave but too late to stop her. Lucy happens to meet Wilzig again in Filly. There's another coming up in episode 7.
@@HannaHsOverInvested if it's any consolation, the episode 7 coincidental encounter will not involve your "favorite" character, Maximus, but someone else, for whom 5 minutes sooner or later and things would be radically different. That all said, there will be other characters Lucy, the Ghoul, Norm and others will get to have some meaty scenes to enjoy and react to. 👍
I believe it was my comment you were referring to! I totally get what you're saying though, the "plot convenience convergence" is *very* convenient for this series, more than other series probably. There's definitely a balance of "too much convenience" vs "too many episodes of nothing happening because they are travelling"
@@HannaHsOverInvested of course! I loved the show too, apart from the flying power armour, it's been a great adaption of the games, but it's doing great thing on its own as well
I've seen the "too many episodes" thing too often, but it is not the alternative. Plenty of shows and movies can do it better in a lot less time. You don't even really need to restructure to have events happen a lot more organically. You just think them through a little more, frame them differently. If we look at Lucy finding Maximus. For example, can you think of any reason the tracker could stop working? Maximus already knows the pick-up point. Even that simple change can allow Lucy to go to their last known and it could create intrigue and potentially lead to many other interesting scenarios. Even if we see it from Lucy's perspective, we wouldn't need to have the (potentially) character annihilating moment of Maximus attempting to murder Thaddeus.
what a coincidence: it's like you've never seen a tv show ;) no the tracker doesn't leave a trail, but there's a limited number of routes people can take when they travel trough the wastelands. so if three groups go from point A to B, they will most likely take the same path. also we like it because it's a very video game logic, so it really fits there's a hub town and designated routes. and you can't just go "i don't meant to be rude i don't care" when the show is foreshadowing something.
Worth mentioning that in the games "you don't wander off the roads" (because of the dangers involved, I'd hate to see half the show being spent on healing for trying to be realistic about it, not to mention all the creatures that would have to be made - rad scorpions, night stalkers, cazadors etc), and if there is a visible trail on the Pip-boy, at least it shows the route is a safe one. As for the Rad roaches, we have no idea how much time passes or how long they've been munching on the armor. Fast travel and time skipping are known concepts to the game (with their own interfaces), so if in doubt, I think it's better to just assume "it's make believe game logic, it just works" than trying to see it from a realistic point of view. Like how stimpacks, jet, psycho (not seen yet), mentats (not seen yet), doctors bags (not seen yet), or hydra works; their benefits and drawbacks from a gaming point of view. Coming from a dice rolling rpg background back in the day, I'm well aware of the mechanics available to a role master. With magic and necromancy, realism was never a discussion, following the rulebook and role master's guidance was.
@@Gunmarz oxhorn has controversies? He is the most even tempered, good natured streamer I have seen. Are you talking about the fact he smokes cigars and sips scotch on stream?
@@KellyKMc Homophobic remarks on streams. Archaic views on how women should behave. Wrote a whole ass manifesto against porn/masturbation after being caught uploading a Fallout playthrough on a pornsite modded for sex, slavery and such. Some of his older lore content was also read word by word from the Wiki and some information that was presented as "cannon" was more speculation.
Thank you!!! I really value comments like this because while I'm editing sometimes when I make a joke or think of cutting something in I'm like, oh my God it will take so much time. But when I actually do it and then I get comments like this, I remember that next time and it's really motivating. So thank you so much!
I realized while hearing you talk about the timing coincidences why those didn’t bother me either… in the games (and really in any open-world game), there are events scattered around the world, some randomly and some in specific locations, which are always at an exciting or critical point when you arrive. Sometimes it’s just “we’re having trouble with raiders” or some such, but often you may come across a battle in progress or some other critical event you have to deal with right then… it helps make the world feel alive because things are “happening” even before you arrive… But they almost never happen and end before you get there, because that wouldn’t be fun or exciting, and it doesn’t give you agency in affecting the world the way something in progress does… There’s no game in just discovering that a lot of things happened without you. For example, in the game Red Dead Redemption, which is an open world Wild West game, you often come across muggings, or carriage robberies, etc. (or someone pretending to need help who may then ambush you). The timing would be crazy, but it’s there to entertain. So Lucy coming across Maximus at the critical moment when he was about to be killed by radroaches feels very true to the games. Yes, incredible coincidence of timing… and that’s what makes it fun. 😜
"It helps make the world feel alive" Do you really think so? Would you say the same for Starfield? I thought most people had soured on Bethesda's brand of "you're the most important person in the universe and the world is stagnant until the chosen one is around." Do you think that expands character's agency in the show? For the world to be locked in time, or for the characters to just be a puppet of the writers to be where they need to be at the right time? Let's take the Dog in the cooler. Either time isn't passing and The Ghoul's been to countless other places. Or the writers decided the Ghoul will find the dog, so he does. Or worse, Thaddeus has to leave the dog in the cooler because the writers said so, but the writers want Thaddeus to not be that bad of a guy, so he has to check it can breathe, because he knows the Ghoul will find it, because if he doesn't the dog would starve.
@@alicea3421 Making the world wait for the player isn’t specifically a Bethesda thing, as I said in my first post. You can’t have an open world game with no events at all, as that would feel static and boring, and the world doesn’t seem alive if nothing ever happens. And you can’t have every event have a time limit that begins at the start of the game, because the player would be very frustrated when due to bad luck they miss most of the important things (and probably most of the little things as well). You can have events that expire once the player begins to engage in them, like hostage situations, etc., but you still need to be careful about having too tight a timeline in case the player accidentally starts more than one, because running out of time when you can’t possibly finish in time is not fun. To be clear, what works in video games doesn’t always work in stories. I think it works for Fallout because it has an underlying silliness that pairs well with its darkness to make strong satire. So something a bit ridiculous fits the tone of the show. As for the dog situation, I don’t think that’s the same… the serial nature of the coincidences in that case aren’t really the type that open world games usually have. I probably forgave that coincidence for the same “General silliness” reason though. But it’s probably the worst coincidence in the series. I will say that the dog in the game cannot die, so perhaps that counts as part of the joke there though (as it clearly does in several other cases). They do a LOT of jokes about how things are in the game, like the ghoul taking all of the drug vials in his hat because you can’t take boxes with you, or the giant duffel the scribes carry representing how most people treat any companions in the game (as well as the insane amount you’re allowed to carry yourself). While I don’t mind too much, the way they play down how bad various actions by both Maximus and Thadeus are in order to keep them both relatively likable is probably the worst part of the series. It’s still hard to like them at times, but the show clearly wants you to ignore or at least forgive their worst actions. (Maximus’ worst action is arguably stomping on Thadeus’ foot, which they seem to want you to forget later. It could also be letting Titus die, but that action is more understandable and forgivable even at the time due to Titus threatening Maximus… it’s sort-of self-defense. I think they want you to treat the foot stomping as self-defense as well, but Maximus started that series of actions himself, so it’s harder to defend.)
@@RunningTogether I think it does work for most games, it's near necessary for an open world. But in a game it plays out more organically over the period of time that you're exploring mostly through your own agency. In the show it's convenience after convenience, frequently at the cost of the character's agency for where the writers need them to be, or what they need them to do. Titus as an example, is nothing more than a plot device. Like you said it's framed in a way to make what Maximus does more understandable, but it doesn't make anything Titus does or says realistic. Bethesda's brand is a lot less natural, it's not just an event that's going to trigger as you're there, you're very often the most important person in the room. People you don't know will have you do things you have no authority to do, which could result in terrible repercussions. In both the games and the show, the typical "happened before you got there" examples are storytelling corpses. Unfortunately in the show, the examples of this are people that poisoned themselves, after being nuked? Vault 32, who killed each other, because they "found out the truth". (But mostly because it's convenient, and the only way for Moldaver's plan to work in the plot.) There are plenty more than just the dog coincidence. The surface team moving the armor to the vault for example. Some of the "jokes" or references aren't particularly harmful. Stimpacks, you can mostly get away with as long as it's used consistently. However the dog not dying, means that particular dog is immortal, which creates immediate inconsistency when the first thing we see is the incineration of like dogs. Then we're to presume that people in the show would treat the dog as such? So should they also never care when it's in danger? Should we always expect it to never be in danger? Even the bag represents more problems, Maximus left it behind, his supplies, how did he expect to eat or drink? But it's fine, because despite him saying the stupidest thing to command, they sent him Thaddeus. Maximus stomping on Thaddeus foot is hardly the worst part, upon realizing that Thaddeus wasn't on his side, Maximus immediately tried to murder him. We've seen how powerful power armor is shown to be, Maximus tried to punch Thaddeus, and Thaddeus only survived because he dodged underneath him. There's no way to argue that it wasn't Maximus intent to kill. We could've seen an accidental foot stomping and it wouldn't have been harmful to the character. But that action as a result of attempted murder is unforgivable. You're right that they do play it down, but the best faith interpretation is that it's a product of their environment, or generational trauma. Morally, that's about as good an excuse as "just doing our job". We also know Maximus lived a lot of his childhood in an entirely different environment and we can also assume that the current iteration of the brotherhood is incredibly recent, from the implication that they are partly Legion.
@@alicea3421 To be clear, I’m (mostly) not “defending” the use of coincidences in the show, just explaining some of the reasons they may be used. (It’s the difference between explaining and excusing.) To the extent that a I am defending them, I think it’s mostly that in a show with so much over-the-top naïveté and silliness as part of its tone, funny coincidences feel like they (mostly) fit and don’t really bother me the way they would with a more realistic show. I don’t intend to get into what Bethesda does specifically, because I don’t associate the Fallout franchise primarily with Bethesda, even though they currently own it. Of the mainline single player games, they only made 2 out of 5. (Fallout 3 & 4, not 1, 2, or New Vegas.). So my explanations are meant to be oriented primarily to the franchise, though admittedly the immortal dog is a Bethesda thing. I just don’t want to get into the specific pros and cons of that, just wanted to point out that that element may come into some of the show’s decisions, for better or worse. I totally meant that the foot stomping was “the worst” thing because of the context of attempted murder, so my apologies on not making that clear; I agree with everything else you’re saying about that. I think if you really want to look for story-telling problems in the show, the unclear reason for Vault 32 ending themselves is probably the second worst bit, which could still be redeemed by some future explanation. The most bizarre hole in the story IMO is how Vault 33 didn’t know that something had happened to Vault 32. The Vault 31 overseers were apparently in constant communication, but somehow they didn’t find it odd that they hadn’t heard from Vault 32 for about 2 years from the time of the events ending Vault 32 to the much more recent Raider occupation? Plus, if they actually open the doors every three years to trade as implied, wouldn’t they expect to recognize most of the people from that vault, even if their overseer died? The mere fact that they had a non-Vault 31 overseer should’ve at least given Hank pause and made him investigate what was going on before letting a bunch of strangers come over for the party. That opening invasion is by far the least understandable part of the story, and the more we learned, the less sense it made. I’d say that’s clearly the sloppiest writing of the series. I’m still willing to ignore it for the overall fun of the series, but I totally understand if anyone can’t get past that as being nonsensical, even in a story with the silly (but dark, twisted) tone of this series.
@@RunningTogether That's fair, I hope I didn't suggest that I thought you were excusing it. It's more than fine to like things that have flaws. You're probably the most reasonable person that's responded to me, as you can actually acknowledge the flaws and explain why you still enjoy the show. I like some of it, but overall there's just far too much wrong for me to consider it a well crafted story. The difference in opinion might mostly lie in the tone, a lot of the time it pretends to be serious, and ends in a joke that frequently lowers rather than elevates. Such as 31. It feels no different to the heavily criticized Marvel humor, somehow it's not just the dialogue but actual events in the world. I found in most cases it just removes any stakes when you can predict the outcome as being underwhelming at best. Originally I turned episode 1 off around where the shooting started. I didn't really expect things to get better, but I didn't expect it to get worse once explained. I know logically that it's supposed to be satire, but it's always so abrupt and even somewhat isolated, like it's trying to be two contrasting mismatched stories in one. It also just never seems like it has anything absurd enough or interesting enough to say. I don't much like The Boys but I think that's pretty similar in tone and even that does it better. The Hank/Rose/Moldaver stuff makes close to 0% sense. SPOILERS FOR LATER EPISODES: Why did Rose conclude that people were on the surface because of missing water? Why would that result in taking just her kids into a dangerous wasteland, and not telling anyone, to where Hank could cover it up. Why did Hank have access to nukes? How and where would he have launched that from? Or is this supposed to just be a reference to Megaton? Why did the master never discover the vaults out in the open like that? Moldaver entering 32, did she know it was empty? Was her force enough for 2 vaults? Why even raid 2 if her plan was to do what she did in 33? Why were there no defenses for three of the most important vaults in the wasteland? No automated turrets like we see with the enclave, no power armor. Lucy has the manuals. Would Moldaver have known there are no defenses? Why does Hank have the code? Why would Moldaver think Hank has the code? Why would Moldaver only take Hank and not Lucy? Why was she willing to allow what happened to Lucy? Why did she not try to discover if there were more senior or relevant members of vault-tec that would have the code? Why did she not secure Wilzig when she would have been closer to him than he would have been to Filly?
2:27 ❤❤ You are great, Hannah. I love the more almost book-club style for react videos. I miss the proper book club format and would love to see this show dissected and interacted with in that book club style.
Now Max knows what he has to do...............drop the popcorn, steal the fusion core from Vault 4's generator room, plug it into his suit of armor and go save Goosey from getting the chop from old overseer cyclops.
This series has two overarching themes: 1. Don't jump to conclusions about things/people without knowing the full story, and 2. All forms of extremism are a bad thing, no matter the original motivation.
Thank God the show was run by creators interested in the game and the world rather than a "realism" focused individual with writers concerned with credulity when making a camp post-apocalyptic comedy.
What did she mean by "deception" when she saw the history of Shady Sands? I can't stand how people keep inventing narratives out of NOTHING, the show isn't TRYING to trick the viewer at any point in time about the history of this world but they keep trying to find some mystery there. Lack of media literacy (which is suspect coming from a supposed author), the desire to guess the plot as if they are in a classroom (mostly by throwing every trope at the wall and waiting to see which one sticks) and inventing plotpoints out of thin air. Why can't people just let a story tell itself?
@@HannaHsOverInvested ooh, that the vault 33 were lying, thought this meant vault 4. Well don't know if you've already finished the show so won't comment on that, but in this games on average most nobody in the vaults KNOW what's going on on the surface, so there's no deception, just ignorance.
This episode does a lot of the heavy lifting for Maximus character. You realize how little the Brotherhood prepared him for any kind of life besides service to them. Everyone is effectively in a "cult": Lucy, Vault 4, the Brotherhood, Vault-Tec, etc. They know so much about what their cults care about, but so little about what their cults don't care about or what effectively undermines the cults' ideals.
The knight and squire followed the footsteps, and the radiation trail left by the ghoul, to the place where the head was lost to the Gulper. Lucy is tracking the head with her "championship watch". The ghoul is using the dog who is leading him to the head. The head is being tracked by technology, a bloodhound, and a radiation detector gun thingy.
^^^^
This is correct, though I was also confused my first watch but of course now I’m watching it through other people like here so now it’s clear. They kinda only say things once or twice pretty clearly. I think either way it’s just nice to have the characters meet up. :3
The thing is, there are half a dozen reasons that make sense to potentially explain it, if people actually think. But so many shows these days talk down to their audience by explaining everything little thing, so they don't think. They just assume if it's not laid out right in front of them it's a 'coincidence' that just happens.
The tracker isn't leaving a trail but the pipboy is displaying the location on a map. Seeing where it was then seeing where it moved to and running into a part of the ruined city that is too dangerous or difficult to traverse is reasonable. Going to where you last saw your tracker stationary to avoid said dangers is also reasonable.
Anybody that played Fallout3 and did quests in the DC ruins understands.
If that is the only way to understand it, then the show is not doing a good enough job telling the story. A TV show based on some other kind of media should be able to stand on its own legs.
@@reprobatic5485 You don't need to know the games to come to this conclusion. Just a little bit of thought.
The tracker doesn't send its location. The pipboy receives the signal and indicates its direction in the electronic compass.
Its not 'the Government', its 'the Govermint'! An important difference... XD
Two-headed bear was flag of ncr where maximus survived bombing from. Ncr was a major faction in new vegas and Fallout 2. Also that blackboard caused a lot of arguments in game community.
The New California Republics goal was to bring more peace and to make the wasteland less dangerous but as a wise man said war never changes
@@HunterRamirez-rl3by And another wise man said power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!
It only caused controversy amongst the ill-informed members of the community. It tracks with the lore.
I think it's a wider discussion on whether or not something is trying to be a good show or a perfect adaptation because those things aren't always the same.
I think about Harry Potter a lot when I think about adaptations because the sixth book was easily my least favorite, but it was my favorite movie. The third book was my favorite book, and my least favorite movie. Maybe I'm just harder on the third movie, but objectively. I think that the sixth one took a lot more liberties and that's why it was a better movie. It wasn't trying to be the best adaptation of the book, it was trying to be a good movie.
@@HannaHsOverInvested That's really interesting that the third movie ended up being your least favorite, given, at least anecdotally, it feels like that's the one most people put if not #1 then top 3. (It's not my favorite; DH 2 is, followed by Goblet, and then I'm not sure.) It's also been a LONG time since I've read the books so I don't remember all of the changes, of course.
1:53 The show doesn't specifically show a tracking path, however, the games themselves DO make a connector-line betweenm you and your target, or at least 'have that functionality' (not all games show the straight line). Needless to say, there's bells and whistles on it, and her tracking the head with it wouln't be difficult. We see Ma June put the coordinates for Moldaver's place in her pip-boy and many other functionalities it has. It is reasonable that it either has a log of where the tracker has went, or just that Lucy is going to be prudent and check it often. It fits with the way her character is written.
This was my favorite episode of the season. The flashback stuff with Walton Goggins is just SO damn good. Also: major chills when Lucy unfurls the flag and we hear the Fallout theme for the first time in the series.
Hit me in the feels
This is the episode I started liking Maximus. I didn't trust him but I started liking him.
3:11 Aww! Happy birthday, Hannnah!! Blessed be that day, the celebration of your uterine expulsion!! 😂🎉
It is a beautiful thing to watch, this glorious series slowly eroding HannaH's sanity, bit by bit. After the end, when some scavenger searches her rooms for loot, they might find these logs and learn about her story ...
The timeline is definitely a little weird. I’m disappointed that the NCR is as fringe as they are in this area, since I usually sided with them in the preceding game, Fallout: New Vegas. Probably the least bad faction in the area at the time.
1:38 OMG bless you!!! 😂😂 That is fuggin hilarious.
Also, I'll totally concede it was convenient for her to come across Maximus as the Radroaches got there. But that's just some nice drama to add to the scene. It was in the morning, probably the very next morning by the way the shots worked out, which is a good timme for things to find this guy simmering in man-juice inside that suit, giving off a nice smell for the roaches. lololol.
I don't know that the tracker itself left a 'trail' per se, but if Lucy is tracking this thing, she's going to be checking it often to see where it's headed. If you check it before bed and it's at x, y, and in the morning it's at x, y+500 feet or whatever, then you know it went in a straight line. Just following after the head and it's heading (lol) will make you pass through the areas it passed through. Furthermore, it would behoove Lucy to explore these railway stations and all that for loot etc., and she may have wanted to take a break to rest anyhow as she was radiation poisoned.
I know there's some contrivance if you dig, but it really does make sense.
The show makes it very clear that The Ghoul and other irradiated creatures leave a radiation trail - which is what Maximus and Thadius were following - and that the head has a tracker that pings the exact location on the pip-boy screen - which is what Lucy is following. So you are correct; it makes far more sense for Lucy to go in a straight line (straight as she can anyway) right towards the head, as opposed to following a trail that would lead her to places the head has been. One can come up with all kinds of excuses - based purely on conjecture - for why this makes perfect sense, but once again, all that's really happening is that the show is 8 episodes long, and we gots to keep the plot moving. It's perfectly reasonable to be annoyed by these plot-conveniences and still love the show, which clearly you do. 👍🏽
I don't blame you for wanting to jump into the next episode. I am also a glutton for stories that intrigue me (read all of the Wheel of Time books in less than a month).
OMG that's crazy!!
I didn't plan to, but I ended up binging it all in a single seating. I'm not even into reaction stuff, but Fallout is kind of an exception - I want to see it all. Many, especially fans of the games, pick on on references that I completely missed.
In the Falout game, you happen upon story arcs all the time as it is with most game designs. I personally believe the "coincidences" you see are intentionally there to remind you that this is taken from a game world. I feel that as soon as the show draws you in, it kicks you out with an obvious plot device to move the show/game forward and it's what makes this show feel different from others that are based on games like "The Last Of Us." for example.
I almost feel like Maximus is being built up to become a villain later. Two of some of the best villains in Fallout are fallen members of the Brotherhood of Steel.
Lord Ashur of the Pitt was a Brotherhood Paladin who was left for dead during the Scourge of the Pitt, a vicious campaign in the heavily irradiated Pittsburgh.
Clinging to life, he found the city's thriving steel mills had been left perfect preserved, and built a vast empire of industry and slavery out of it. He's a little bothered by the atrocities he commits, but believes that the future he's building is worth any cost.
Father Elijah was a Brotherhood researcher obsessed with technology. He sacrificed countless lives at the Battle of Helios One in mad bid to unlock the power plant/super weapon's secrets and destroy the attacking NCR. Instead, the Brotherhood limped into retreat and he fled alone in disgrace, and he carved a bloody path through the Mojave in his quest for vengeance.
He's putting bombs on the necks of kidnapped wanderers, and forcing them through the security system of a haunted casino, all so he can access the vault of old world superscience inside and unleash them on the world. He wants to plunge the world into a second apocalypse, murder everyone that could possibly remember his humiliation, until its just him left. Alone, atop the Helios One.
Yeah, Elijah is part of why, IMHO, "Dead Money" is *the* smartest and most chilling game story ever, IMHO :)
Yes you are right to hate max, people are talking to you as if you have watched the whole show yet.
Also the convenance is more so its fallout, convenance is the series, the universe itself has a luck stat, and yes it is just all so convenient, but that is the series.
Also you just had to notice the tracker on her pipboy was showing a trail not a map.
A lot of stuff is more so that the universe of fallout is literally a 80's movie as a universe, so much so there is even a "S.P.E.C.I.A.L." system.
Luck exists as an actual thing although unbeknownst to the characters in the world.
Don't take it too seriously, think of it like a silly 80's movie.
Also a thing to remember, yes max was an asshole to thaddeus, but something idk if you remembered, thaddeus was one of the guys who was beating max up when we first saw him. So yeah he was a massive dick to thaddeus right away, most def cause thaddeus was a dude who beat him up on the regular. So it is hard to FULLY blame Maximus for how he treated the guy.
Hahahah yesss we got her on board get that popcorn! ^v^
I loved this series, but your criticisms about various plot conveniences are spot on. That's something I picked up on as well. Them all running into each other in Philly in the second episode......ok fine a bit contrived but the season is short so the plot needs to go fast. But the way they kept just happening to run into each other after that pushed the limits of acceptance for me. It was one of the few negatives i came away from the show with.
Did you get the popcorn?
I didn't actually make popcorn. I was impatient and just started watching the next episode.
There is no celibacy pledge in the Brotherhood of Steel.
15:15 bahahaha right?! Such an amazing episode!
I like to write off the convenient happenings as Maximus or Lucy having a high Luck stat out of their S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats. :)
Bethesda assigned the stats to the three main characters and Lucy has 7 for luck, so you’re correct for sure. Max is a 5 in luck.
@@JeffKelly03 Nah. He has extremely high luck and extremely low intelligence.
Don't worry. I get accused of working at a factory because I want to pay my bills all the time. Nope, I just love sacrificing my health and peace of mind for faceless corporations. Silly people.
may you have many popped corns 🍿
9:41 yeah 😊😢😅 He's so innocent and naive in a way, and is just stuck in that childhood he got taken away from him. Officially, he has 4 Intelligence out of 10. He's actually legitimately not smart. But yeah his character is so complicated and awesome.
time to cook some eggs and bacon sit back and relax and watch some Hannah!
Yum 🍳🥓
6:25 Yes she is!! Her "okie dokie"s are fantastic
6:17 nah, Maximus just never got the birds and bees talk… BOS don’t ban sex… infact, quite the opposite. They tend to not recruit out of the BOS, meaning they’re born into the order.
I don’t even need to begin watching, it’s in the title 😂
“Is Maximus smart?”
Nah. I don’t even know what about but nah.
I’ll be back to see if I was right.
Edit:
I’m back! I think I get it 😂
I think I’ve found out that you have a healthy respect for PARANOID people, or people that follow your paranoid feelings 😂
The SECOND Lucy was alright and cozy you flipped to Max like “yo buddy this is weird right?” And max was like “yeah… hey what’s that, what’s oysters?” 😂
12:57 oysters are considered aphrodisiacs…. Especially if there’s natural aphrodisiacs genetically engineered into them….
I mean the fact that the quests don’t make any logical sense is probably because Bethesda was involved. (I just trolled a bunch of Bethesda fans) 😂
Been waiting for this one… this is like, the episode that saves Maximus’ character for me. And it’s that incredibly awkward moment with Lucy.
Like I watched that and thought of the people who politicize sex ed, who want to limit or worse ban it. Maximus is the kind of kid they might shape, a victim of a cult. And a quasi medieval, militaristic cult at that. They taught him how to identify pre-war tech, take orders, and how to kill things. Not the birds and the bees.
The conversation in overseer’s office was also I think great satire. Idk about you, but I’ve been in Lucy’s shoes while a friendly authority figure told an awkward racist joke. It’s not fun 😅
Thank you for doing this series! Maybe the show didn’t explain the pip boys very well, as someone who’s played the games that didn’t require much establishment for me. In the games the pip boy is your menu, you use it as a map to track objectives, use equipment, eat, drink, listen to radio, everything. Within the lore of the show it’s like a 1950s-iPhone. Tracks your daily steps and has a built in Geiger counter.
TLDR thanks for watching the show! I think max is a good, but flawed character lol.
I never found maximus stupid but rather having the growth mentality of a child and that due to growing into the Brotherhood without proper parents.
If anything Maximus ENDURANCE stats is off the roof. Man can take a beating like a boss and has multiple times.
I guess many people forget the purpose of the original Vault 4 when the episode ends. Those "fishes" are actually baby Gulpers.
The only reason Maximus said it's a cult is because everyone in the Vault seems happy to be there and to be with each other. He wasn't being smart at all. Just wasn't used to seeing people be happy.
The timing issues don't stand out to people who played the game a lot, as the acting only happens when you show up.
You are directed to Concord Mass. in Fallout 4, and find Museum of Freedom under attack by Gristle's raiders. However if you don't go there and end up doing other things for an entire in game year, the attack will still be going on when you get there.
I liked the show, but as opposed to the TLOU show, I'd be personally offended if you didn't see these issues with this one XD (as every single reaction channel don't see them)
I understand some of your criticisms of the show, but I hope you're still enjoying it. I wouldn't want you to feel like you're forced to finish it.
I'm going to show you when I buy all your books and present the "gotcha" moment of how your story has a very convenient plot intersection! :)
Ten serial jest bardzo jak gra. Dlatego wygląda mało logicznie.
Well, it was also a nice cleared street in a destroyed city. People tend to walk on natural paths 😛
And I love the common religious rituals being combined, and returned to it’s primal Nature as the Cult
Yeah I will say, this show had a great way of making me care about all the plotlines towards the later episodes. The intrigue and suspense was built up quite well IMO.
Love Hannah getting over invested in the Fallout story! Channel name promise fulfilled!
they don’t explain it in the show and leave it up to the viewers to figure this out…. That’s a spray of anesthetics and aphrodisiacs…. That’s why they have the weird ass out of no where conversation.
Matt Berry (voice of Snips Snips) was also the voice actor for Merkimer in Disenchantment.
5:47 they don’t explain it in the show and leave it up to the viewers to figure this out…. That’s a spray of anesthetics and aphrodisiacs…. That’s why they have the weird ass out of no where conversation.
Hanna, there's a video, when you're done with this first season, that describes all the known vaults.
You should really watch it.
I think the way they made it was like a game, so events dont make complete sense compared to a normal show. such as in a game you end up becoming a member of absolutely every faction possible while being a nobody in a story.
Maximus in three words of game lingo: "Mission failed successfully!"
LOL
I always just figured them finding each other so easily was due to limited routes to travel due to pockets of radiation
All of the stories are related. So the storylines are essentially one big story. They're not going to give you all the answers and information in one episode.
The Pipboy was a way for the game menu to be more immersive within the game world 🤔
I’m starting to think Coop’s wife had something to do with the no dogs policy.
Wait... I've watched you react to Fallout game play? "Non Gamer Watches FALLOUT" So why are surprised about all the "plot armor"? Welcome to the "F-Up" world of "video game logic".
Lol
@@HannaHsOverInvested you're brutal...
@@stijill thanks!! 😅
@@HannaHsOverInvested Have ever thought of trying voice acting for games.
@@stijill I would love that
And then in other stories they bend over backwards to avoid coincidence, and instead just write a bad story, that includes details irrelevant to the story. The audience doesn't need every detail. We know they eat and poop, but we leave those parts out of the story, unless they are somehow relevant to the plot. Every object on stage is there for a reason, and every object that isn't, is a mistake, and a potential distraction. This is just as true of everything DONE on stage.
5:00 More corporatism with this example. but yeah
You are priceless in this series reaction. Just had to say. Some of your best.
It's a nice face to click on so you're welcome. thumbs up
The New California Republic is one element of the show that I wish they had explained better. That civilization rebuilt itself after the bombs fell as the NCR, but that it was in turn wiped out by a big bomb is a pretty big plot point, but only talked about briefly. It's pretty clear if you've played the games where the NCR is a big deal, but if you're coming into the show fresh you might end up conflating the bombs from the beginning with the ones that wiped out Maximus' hometown centuries later.
And the thing is... they kind of WANT you to be a little confused about it for an episode or so (as set up by Maximus's 'the bombs fell when I was a kid' line), but they could definitely have stood to clarify the issue in the classroom more effectively.
Finally a new episode 😊
I thought the conveniences of the first couple episodes were pretty bad, with everyone randomly running into each other with zero effort. The more recent stuff didn't really bother me because they are all tracking the head, and have established good explanations of how that is done.
Lucy running into Maximus there did slightly bother me, but only because they showed Thadeus leaving out the same entrance, and therefore presumably not going in a straight line that would have led her there. However, I'm willing to overlook that because I'm sure it's a budget thing - they only had the money to create one view of that underpass area, so they couldn't show Thaddeus leaving the other direction without building a lot more set, in order to show it for just a couple seconds. Probably could have done something better, but I'm sure they figured that Lucy having a tracker was all the explanation the show really needed. It's not crazy to assume she saw the head parked there for a night and decided to check out the place for clues on who had it, and then get back onto the path again from there.
And while yes, it's convenient that Lucy arrives just in time to shoot the bugs and then lets him out just in time to get healed with his medicine, that's just how stories work. No plot would ever work without some stuff like that.
Anyway, in general I think it's a fair criticism of the show to complain about, but I also think the show isn't really going for perfect realism like that. The show has very much been winking at the audience a few times, such as the turret that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the beginning of episode 2, the magical healing stimpaks, etc. as nods to the game. I think similarly having characters that follow maps to eventually all meet up at opportune times fits perfectly into that, the way that quests in the game would be provided. It's subtle enough to not really bother most people, at least as long as they are enjoying the show. I think it's one of those things people will nitpick over if they aren't enjoying the show, as a way to explain why besides just saying the plot sucks or the characters are boring.
I am enjoying the show though... I just also like nitpicking
There's a ton of convenience that this show kind of glosses over. Even the ubernerds have pulled out in-game maps to showcase how wild it is they they just keep bumping into each other.
Thankfully, if you can get over that writing sin the rest of the show is a rocking good time imo. But I would never besmirch someone being turned off by the seemingly lazy writing of how much everyone comes together.
I enjoy the show and my nitpicking 😅
I find it funny how some of the comments in your previous videos were so defensive of your critiques. “How dare you have problems with a show’s plot holes and characters?”
I’d chalk it up to how invested they are in this show. I guess you could say they’re a bit…over invested.
RIGHT!!
We don't talk about level 12 and Bruno!!! 😂😂😂
I really like watching your reactions because you're honest. Hopefully not a majority have a problem with your issues with the show.
40% of the comment section is people having a problem with my opinions of the show, but that's okay! Sometimes I get new perspective from those comments.
Hahaha that made me laugh "she only doing this for views", well duh, who makes videos for youtube if not to get other people to watch? Do people think mrBeast make the vidoes hes does, if not to get views? :P I love your Hanna with an H :D
Right!! Thanks man!
Idk if you caught it. But during the intro with Cooper they talk about how vault 4 is being used to test what radiation does to the human body... Thus one eye and double nose, and birthing fish, and.... Caviar in a vault that has been sealed away for hundreds of years...
YES
good to see william knife man get some work
You're right. The show is not above convenient coincidences.
Episode 2 had Knight Titus and Maximus get out early right near the Target encounered the cave.
Wilzig and CX404 just happen to meet Lucy iust begore a rad roach attacked her in sleep.
The vaulties happen to make it to the outer door just as Lucy's about to leave but too late to stop her.
Lucy happens to meet Wilzig again in Filly.
There's another coming up in episode 7.
Joy of joys
@@HannaHsOverInvested if it's any consolation, the episode 7 coincidental encounter will not involve your "favorite" character, Maximus, but someone else, for whom 5 minutes sooner or later and things would be radically different.
That all said, there will be other characters Lucy, the Ghoul, Norm and others will get to have some meaty scenes to enjoy and react to. 👍
Stop NOT caring..
You're not going to make us wait a week for the next episode reaction?????
I am
Not gonna lie, that ending made me laugh
8:12 🚩🚩🚩Gaslighting alert!
I see you keep calling them "frog-pig-lizard". 😂
It's in the shape of an axolotl. If you look up what that looks like, you'll see it.
And I will still say frog pig lizard because it's funny for me
@@HannaHsOverInvested
Fair enough. 😅😂
Here at 72 Views! LFG.
Love this review Series!
I believe it was my comment you were referring to! I totally get what you're saying though, the "plot convenience convergence" is *very* convenient for this series, more than other series probably. There's definitely a balance of "too much convenience" vs "too many episodes of nothing happening because they are travelling"
I'm still having a great time watching! I can criticize and love at the same time.
@@HannaHsOverInvested of course! I loved the show too, apart from the flying power armour, it's been a great adaption of the games, but it's doing great thing on its own as well
I've seen the "too many episodes" thing too often, but it is not the alternative. Plenty of shows and movies can do it better in a lot less time. You don't even really need to restructure to have events happen a lot more organically. You just think them through a little more, frame them differently.
If we look at Lucy finding Maximus.
For example, can you think of any reason the tracker could stop working? Maximus already knows the pick-up point. Even that simple change can allow Lucy to go to their last known and it could create intrigue and potentially lead to many other interesting scenarios. Even if we see it from Lucy's perspective, we wouldn't need to have the (potentially) character annihilating moment of Maximus attempting to murder Thaddeus.
Frog pig lizard lol
Cool shirt
what a coincidence: it's like you've never seen a tv show ;)
no the tracker doesn't leave a trail, but there's a limited number of routes people can take when they travel trough the wastelands. so if three groups go from point A to B, they will most likely take the same path.
also we like it because it's a very video game logic, so it really fits there's a hub town and designated routes.
and you can't just go "i don't meant to be rude i don't care" when the show is foreshadowing something.
Worth mentioning that in the games "you don't wander off the roads" (because of the dangers involved, I'd hate to see half the show being spent on healing for trying to be realistic about it, not to mention all the creatures that would have to be made - rad scorpions, night stalkers, cazadors etc), and if there is a visible trail on the Pip-boy, at least it shows the route is a safe one. As for the Rad roaches, we have no idea how much time passes or how long they've been munching on the armor. Fast travel and time skipping are known concepts to the game (with their own interfaces), so if in doubt, I think it's better to just assume "it's make believe game logic, it just works" than trying to see it from a realistic point of view. Like how stimpacks, jet, psycho (not seen yet), mentats (not seen yet), doctors bags (not seen yet), or hydra works; their benefits and drawbacks from a gaming point of view.
Coming from a dice rolling rpg background back in the day, I'm well aware of the mechanics available to a role master. With magic and necromancy, realism was never a discussion, following the rulebook and role master's guidance was.
@@gottagowork wait, you don't wander off the roads? I just stay in the roads because I think there's a higher chance of finding new places
@@TheRhalf Some of the most interesting places in the games are hidden off the roads.
Hannah Morning
9:11 That really caught me off guard. 😂
😂😂
👍👍👍👍👍
6:04 😂😂😂😂😂
Oxhorn has great character studies of Maximus and Norm. He is also a scholar of fallout lore from all games.
Eh. I just don't know if Hannah would jive with some of Oxhorns.... controversies.
@@Gunmarz oxhorn has controversies? He is the most even tempered, good natured streamer I have seen. Are you talking about the fact he smokes cigars and sips scotch on stream?
@@KellyKMc Homophobic remarks on streams. Archaic views on how women should behave. Wrote a whole ass manifesto against porn/masturbation after being caught uploading a Fallout playthrough on a pornsite modded for sex, slavery and such.
Some of his older lore content was also read word by word from the Wiki and some information that was presented as "cannon" was more speculation.
Championship Watch.... Hahaha
I laughed at that while I was editing too.
😂👍
For the views!
😂😂😂
7:48 Yes! The cult of Hannah Over-Invested! hahaha
It's reasonable that Lucy ran into Maximus at the right time because that's what the story needed to happen.
I am in the cult of watching confused HannaH!
Enjoying the edits. 👍
It's been a while since I've seen a Flight of the Conchords reference.
Thank you!!! I really value comments like this because while I'm editing sometimes when I make a joke or think of cutting something in I'm like, oh my God it will take so much time. But when I actually do it and then I get comments like this, I remember that next time and it's really motivating. So thank you so much!
This episode necessitates the invention of a "jump to conclusions" mat.
I'm glad Tom survived. After years in a dead end job he deserved a chance to follow his dream.
My absolute favourite movie btw.
2:14 PREACH!
11:56 bahahahaha!!! 😂😂
I realized while hearing you talk about the timing coincidences why those didn’t bother me either… in the games (and really in any open-world game), there are events scattered around the world, some randomly and some in specific locations, which are always at an exciting or critical point when you arrive. Sometimes it’s just “we’re having trouble with raiders” or some such, but often you may come across a battle in progress or some other critical event you have to deal with right then… it helps make the world feel alive because things are “happening” even before you arrive… But they almost never happen and end before you get there, because that wouldn’t be fun or exciting, and it doesn’t give you agency in affecting the world the way something in progress does… There’s no game in just discovering that a lot of things happened without you.
For example, in the game Red Dead Redemption, which is an open world Wild West game, you often come across muggings, or carriage robberies, etc. (or someone pretending to need help who may then ambush you). The timing would be crazy, but it’s there to entertain.
So Lucy coming across Maximus at the critical moment when he was about to be killed by radroaches feels very true to the games. Yes, incredible coincidence of timing… and that’s what makes it fun. 😜
"It helps make the world feel alive"
Do you really think so?
Would you say the same for Starfield? I thought most people had soured on Bethesda's brand of "you're the most important person in the universe and the world is stagnant until the chosen one is around."
Do you think that expands character's agency in the show? For the world to be locked in time, or for the characters to just be a puppet of the writers to be where they need to be at the right time?
Let's take the Dog in the cooler. Either time isn't passing and The Ghoul's been to countless other places. Or the writers decided the Ghoul will find the dog, so he does. Or worse, Thaddeus has to leave the dog in the cooler because the writers said so, but the writers want Thaddeus to not be that bad of a guy, so he has to check it can breathe, because he knows the Ghoul will find it, because if he doesn't the dog would starve.
@@alicea3421 Making the world wait for the player isn’t specifically a Bethesda thing, as I said in my first post. You can’t have an open world game with no events at all, as that would feel static and boring, and the world doesn’t seem alive if nothing ever happens. And you can’t have every event have a time limit that begins at the start of the game, because the player would be very frustrated when due to bad luck they miss most of the important things (and probably most of the little things as well).
You can have events that expire once the player begins to engage in them, like hostage situations, etc., but you still need to be careful about having too tight a timeline in case the player accidentally starts more than one, because running out of time when you can’t possibly finish in time is not fun.
To be clear, what works in video games doesn’t always work in stories. I think it works for Fallout because it has an underlying silliness that pairs well with its darkness to make strong satire. So something a bit ridiculous fits the tone of the show.
As for the dog situation, I don’t think that’s the same… the serial nature of the coincidences in that case aren’t really the type that open world games usually have. I probably forgave that coincidence for the same “General silliness” reason though. But it’s probably the worst coincidence in the series. I will say that the dog in the game cannot die, so perhaps that counts as part of the joke there though (as it clearly does in several other cases).
They do a LOT of jokes about how things are in the game, like the ghoul taking all of the drug vials in his hat because you can’t take boxes with you, or the giant duffel the scribes carry representing how most people treat any companions in the game (as well as the insane amount you’re allowed to carry yourself).
While I don’t mind too much, the way they play down how bad various actions by both Maximus and Thadeus are in order to keep them both relatively likable is probably the worst part of the series. It’s still hard to like them at times, but the show clearly wants you to ignore or at least forgive their worst actions. (Maximus’ worst action is arguably stomping on Thadeus’ foot, which they seem to want you to forget later. It could also be letting Titus die, but that action is more understandable and forgivable even at the time due to Titus threatening Maximus… it’s sort-of self-defense. I think they want you to treat the foot stomping as self-defense as well, but Maximus started that series of actions himself, so it’s harder to defend.)
@@RunningTogether
I think it does work for most games, it's near necessary for an open world. But in a game it plays out more organically over the period of time that you're exploring mostly through your own agency. In the show it's convenience after convenience, frequently at the cost of the character's agency for where the writers need them to be, or what they need them to do. Titus as an example, is nothing more than a plot device. Like you said it's framed in a way to make what Maximus does more understandable, but it doesn't make anything Titus does or says realistic.
Bethesda's brand is a lot less natural, it's not just an event that's going to trigger as you're there, you're very often the most important person in the room. People you don't know will have you do things you have no authority to do, which could result in terrible repercussions.
In both the games and the show, the typical "happened before you got there" examples are storytelling corpses. Unfortunately in the show, the examples of this are people that poisoned themselves, after being nuked? Vault 32, who killed each other, because they "found out the truth". (But mostly because it's convenient, and the only way for Moldaver's plan to work in the plot.) There are plenty more than just the dog coincidence. The surface team moving the armor to the vault for example.
Some of the "jokes" or references aren't particularly harmful. Stimpacks, you can mostly get away with as long as it's used consistently. However the dog not dying, means that particular dog is immortal, which creates immediate inconsistency when the first thing we see is the incineration of like dogs. Then we're to presume that people in the show would treat the dog as such? So should they also never care when it's in danger? Should we always expect it to never be in danger?
Even the bag represents more problems, Maximus left it behind, his supplies, how did he expect to eat or drink? But it's fine, because despite him saying the stupidest thing to command, they sent him Thaddeus.
Maximus stomping on Thaddeus foot is hardly the worst part, upon realizing that Thaddeus wasn't on his side, Maximus immediately tried to murder him. We've seen how powerful power armor is shown to be, Maximus tried to punch Thaddeus, and Thaddeus only survived because he dodged underneath him. There's no way to argue that it wasn't Maximus intent to kill. We could've seen an accidental foot stomping and it wouldn't have been harmful to the character. But that action as a result of attempted murder is unforgivable.
You're right that they do play it down, but the best faith interpretation is that it's a product of their environment, or generational trauma. Morally, that's about as good an excuse as "just doing our job". We also know Maximus lived a lot of his childhood in an entirely different environment and we can also assume that the current iteration of the brotherhood is incredibly recent, from the implication that they are partly Legion.
@@alicea3421 To be clear, I’m (mostly) not “defending” the use of coincidences in the show, just explaining some of the reasons they may be used. (It’s the difference between explaining and excusing.) To the extent that a I am defending them, I think it’s mostly that in a show with so much over-the-top naïveté and silliness as part of its tone, funny coincidences feel like they (mostly) fit and don’t really bother me the way they would with a more realistic show.
I don’t intend to get into what Bethesda does specifically, because I don’t associate the Fallout franchise primarily with Bethesda, even though they currently own it. Of the mainline single player games, they only made 2 out of 5. (Fallout 3 & 4, not 1, 2, or New Vegas.). So my explanations are meant to be oriented primarily to the franchise, though admittedly the immortal dog is a Bethesda thing. I just don’t want to get into the specific pros and cons of that, just wanted to point out that that element may come into some of the show’s decisions, for better or worse.
I totally meant that the foot stomping was “the worst” thing because of the context of attempted murder, so my apologies on not making that clear; I agree with everything else you’re saying about that.
I think if you really want to look for story-telling problems in the show, the unclear reason for Vault 32 ending themselves is probably the second worst bit, which could still be redeemed by some future explanation. The most bizarre hole in the story IMO is how Vault 33 didn’t know that something had happened to Vault 32. The Vault 31 overseers were apparently in constant communication, but somehow they didn’t find it odd that they hadn’t heard from Vault 32 for about 2 years from the time of the events ending Vault 32 to the much more recent Raider occupation? Plus, if they actually open the doors every three years to trade as implied, wouldn’t they expect to recognize most of the people from that vault, even if their overseer died? The mere fact that they had a non-Vault 31 overseer should’ve at least given Hank pause and made him investigate what was going on before letting a bunch of strangers come over for the party. That opening invasion is by far the least understandable part of the story, and the more we learned, the less sense it made. I’d say that’s clearly the sloppiest writing of the series. I’m still willing to ignore it for the overall fun of the series, but I totally understand if anyone can’t get past that as being nonsensical, even in a story with the silly (but dark, twisted) tone of this series.
@@RunningTogether That's fair, I hope I didn't suggest that I thought you were excusing it. It's more than fine to like things that have flaws. You're probably the most reasonable person that's responded to me, as you can actually acknowledge the flaws and explain why you still enjoy the show. I like some of it, but overall there's just far too much wrong for me to consider it a well crafted story.
The difference in opinion might mostly lie in the tone, a lot of the time it pretends to be serious, and ends in a joke that frequently lowers rather than elevates. Such as 31. It feels no different to the heavily criticized Marvel humor, somehow it's not just the dialogue but actual events in the world. I found in most cases it just removes any stakes when you can predict the outcome as being underwhelming at best. Originally I turned episode 1 off around where the shooting started. I didn't really expect things to get better, but I didn't expect it to get worse once explained. I know logically that it's supposed to be satire, but it's always so abrupt and even somewhat isolated, like it's trying to be two contrasting mismatched stories in one. It also just never seems like it has anything absurd enough or interesting enough to say. I don't much like The Boys but I think that's pretty similar in tone and even that does it better.
The Hank/Rose/Moldaver stuff makes close to 0% sense.
SPOILERS FOR LATER EPISODES:
Why did Rose conclude that people were on the surface because of missing water? Why would that result in taking just her kids into a dangerous wasteland, and not telling anyone, to where Hank could cover it up.
Why did Hank have access to nukes? How and where would he have launched that from? Or is this supposed to just be a reference to Megaton?
Why did the master never discover the vaults out in the open like that?
Moldaver entering 32, did she know it was empty? Was her force enough for 2 vaults? Why even raid 2 if her plan was to do what she did in 33? Why were there no defenses for three of the most important vaults in the wasteland? No automated turrets like we see with the enclave, no power armor. Lucy has the manuals. Would Moldaver have known there are no defenses?
Why does Hank have the code? Why would Moldaver think Hank has the code? Why would Moldaver only take Hank and not Lucy? Why was she willing to allow what happened to Lucy? Why did she not try to discover if there were more senior or relevant members of vault-tec that would have the code? Why did she not secure Wilzig when she would have been closer to him than he would have been to Filly?
2:27 ❤❤ You are great, Hannah. I love the more almost book-club style for react videos. I miss the proper book club format and would love to see this show dissected and interacted with in that book club style.
Now Max knows what he has to do...............drop the popcorn, steal the fusion core from Vault 4's generator room, plug it into his suit of armor and go save Goosey from getting the chop from old overseer cyclops.
😅😅
This series has two overarching themes: 1. Don't jump to conclusions about things/people without knowing the full story, and 2. All forms of extremism are a bad thing, no matter the original motivation.
Thank God the show was run by creators interested in the game and the world rather than a "realism" focused individual with writers concerned with credulity when making a camp post-apocalyptic comedy.
What did she mean by "deception" when she saw the history of Shady Sands? I can't stand how people keep inventing narratives out of NOTHING, the show isn't TRYING to trick the viewer at any point in time about the history of this world but they keep trying to find some mystery there. Lack of media literacy (which is suspect coming from a supposed author), the desire to guess the plot as if they are in a classroom (mostly by throwing every trope at the wall and waiting to see which one sticks) and inventing plotpoints out of thin air. Why can't people just let a story tell itself?
Just that Lucy's people were lying to her. Or someone was lying to them.
@@HannaHsOverInvested ooh, that the vault 33 were lying, thought this meant vault 4. Well don't know if you've already finished the show so won't comment on that, but in this games on average most nobody in the vaults KNOW what's going on on the surface, so there's no deception, just ignorance.