Thanks for watching guys! 🙏 Reminder: these are upgrade-path builds designed to eventually handle a discrete GPU, hence the full-size ATX choices and the higher wattage PSUs. CORRECTION: The Ryzen 3 3200G is 4 core / 4 thread, it does not have SMT enabled (like the 3400G). Description is fixed but my slide in the video is still wrong.
I actually was about to start looking with a friend in mind since he's still got a GTX 660 and an old Phenom II X4 955. This made that easily a thousand times more simple. You may very well be my savior. Thank you.
I jumped off that cliff too. I'm excited to see benchmark numbers for these chips I've never heard of. Thanks for the heads up Paul . Lets be optimistic and hope we get a really cool kind of rare part.
@@yumri4 not really, I have used Ryzen 3500G (Vega 11) before. You won't play newest titles on it, of course, but you can game on it. That's the whole point of the video. If you REALLY need a computer right now and want to do some light to moderate gaming, APU (AMD) is a cheep way to go. I'd go with Vega 11 over Intel. The con is that it's only a 4 core 16 thread processor.
The current parts picker price for the GPU I have in my PC, is more than what I paid for the entire computer (GPU included) 2 years ago. You'd almost think that GPUs were made out of 9mm ammo.
I refuse to be butt fucked in this way so I just got £220 Radeon RX5500XT and am gonna sit tight with it and stay at 1080p another year or two. Screw these people charging £1000 for a £400 GPU. I say let's not encourage it, do not buy them at that price no matter what. Always a better cheaper option, RX5500XTs are in stock USUALLY and for 1080p that's a top tier GPU! Nvidia go to hell. AMD thanks for having a sub £250 top tier GPU in stock when I needed it!!
@Klip One Yes it sucks to be me who's terrific at financing everything I want. Guess how because I don't allow hype train nonsense to suck my wallet dry... But sure thing bro ... i'm sure being you is just fine ;) A guy who's great at paying £2000 for a thing that's barely worth £400 and tomorrow won't be worth squat :D Best of luck with approach! You will need it. @Prof Moore “Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” Aristotle said it right. I reckon you know what I mean, which makes 2/3 of us in this conversation!
"Woosh, woosh, *EXCELLENT!* " Is my new favourite channel intro! Nice video, by the way. You've explained everything very in a very understandable way. Thanks, Paul's Hardware
My PO Box is in the description of every video that also has that info so I don't see much point in hiding it. Thanks for the heads up though, I will correct the description 👍
personally 2400G over 3200G anyday. Performs better with a discrete GPU and also same graphical performance and personally, often about 20$ ish cheaper. Just get some better RAM with the price gap and 2400G is still the better deal, also don't need to worry about board firmware and compatibility if you're using an older one
Great timing! My 15yo son and I are doing our first build. After a ton of research, we had almost exactly that 11600k build in our cart at newegg, but we've been nervous to pull the trigger. Felt good to see our decisions validated. Now we just more some more lawns and save up for a great GPU whenever they come back to reality!
3200G user here, gotta say single core (overclocked just a little) it's comparable to far more expensive CPUs. Ryzen APU's are amazing :D Only thing it can't do is overclock past 4.1Ghz no matter how hard I push her! But to be honest 3.9 boosting to 4.1 is absolutely amazing anyway - now added a Radeon card and it FLIES
@@Boemtie I know exactly what you mean. If it helps, thats more a statistical thing since nothing could be 100% perfect but when most of your interest is in games that can run on smartfridges its acceptable
One thing to keep in mind for the RAM if you're building a system around a 3200g or 3400g, those are Zen+ cores not Zen2 and so has the old Zen+ IMC which can significantly limit how fast you can clock that RAM. Most 3600Mhz kits won't be able to actually run at full speed on those APUs. The kit in the video here actually might manage it because it uses Micron Rev-E chips which are easier on the memory controller to drive at a given speed, but AFAIK most other RAM chips that can run at those speeds are a bit more taxing on whatever memory controller you have trying to drive them and so a weaker IMC can't keep up. I'm currently running a 3400g with a 32GB kit of Crucial Ballistix 3600/CL16 that's running nice and stable at its XMP (albeit only after I ever-so-slightly bumped up the voltage going to the memory controller) but I've got a 16GB kit of G.Skill 3600/CL-17 running Samsung B-Die chips that was horribly unstable when trying to push it any faster then 3200Mhz on this exact same APU which I gather is the much more common outcome when trying to run fast RAM on 3000-series APUs.
I'm surprised you guys in States never knew about 4650g these difficult times! Can't wait for Paul to review one of them👍 Perfect choice for anyone building right now without going for those gpu marked up scalperinos
There are dozens of videos showing game performance with these APUs. For many games you can be better off with a 3400G because it has more (11) CUs. But for CPU tasks the 4650G and 4750G are much better since they have more CPU cores and more threads. For many/most games including Cyberpunk 2077 these APUs are fine as long as you don't want to push everything to the max. Generally these APUs are about 10% slower than the equivalent CPU. 3400G 2500X 4650G 3600 4750G 3700 This is primarily because the APUs have smaller L3 cache. They usually have a smaller max memory limit and fewer available pcie lanes (since some lanes are used for graphics). IIUC the cache was sacrificed to keep the TDP the same with the addition of the gpu stuff. The APUs are a generation behind which is why the first digits differ when I compare them with CPUs. I'm a big fan of these APUs. I have machines with a 3400G and with a 4650G. For price / performance the 4650G is a sweet spot. YMMVG. I first ordered the 4650G (at a very low price) from AliExpress but it never showed up and I got a full refund.
@@drunkhusband6257 That's strange. I don't know why RUclipsrs would post phony results of using APUs to play it. Search RUclips for "Cyberpunk" and "3400G" or "4750G". A even person in a comment under this video saying they had good results.
@@drunkhusband6257 Sorry for misleading you. I'm not a gamer. The videos looked fine to me and many of the comments under them remarked on how playable it looked. Maybe "playable" is a subjective term.
I have a number of Guild mates with very old systems. They want to play WoW: Shadowlands. I have shared this video with them via our Discord. Thank you greatly.
The only complaint I have was “What took you so long to make an iGPU/APU build”. Otherwise great! Going to use this to do a build for a friend I remember you had a similar video back during the 2016 drought. Really glad to have intel options given the state of 3400G supply.
Remember when $700 pc's had a gaming gpu? Pepperidge farm remembers Wow ram prices are sky rocketing Fantastic help encouraging igpu buys, they are a smart buy rn
I was actually trying to pick parts for a pc build consisting of 4650G today (I can get it here for 240€, from local seller) and it pretty much matched most of your choices with only slight changes, this video made me a bit more confident in pulling the trigger.
I already ordered ASRock B550m Pro 4/ 4650G / Be quiet cooler / Kingston A2000 500GB NVMe / 2x8GB 3200MHz Patriot Viper Steel 4/ 500W Seasonic psu / Zalman case and a few fans for 600€ today. Should be here within a few days, can't wait to build it !
I'd recommend the 11500 instead of the 11400, got Intel UHD 750 instead of 730 graphics (which makes quite a difference) and is a smidgeon faster for just 10 bucks extra.
what time to be alive... less than 10 years ago my build was about $800-$850 and it had i5 3570k and gtx 660Ti, and i was able to play the latest AAA games in 1080p60 at high settings (some specific titles at mid settings). and now for the same money all you can do is play e-sport titles. anything more demanding you have to play at 720p30 low
Im dipping into the "master race" pc gaming and this looks like an attractive proposition. Im not ready so spend for a gpu especially at the prices theyre going for now. This is pretty cool, this paul guy.
For the cases i would actually recommend the phanteks eclipse p300a because its 50 dollars and its pretty similar to the h510, you can also get the mesh version for better airflow for 60 bucks
I had another idea for a build category for while we can't get GPUs at reasonable prices: Ultra SFF builds. 😊 As in, too small to fit a dGPU, except *maybe* a single-slot low-profile GPU, or an MXM GPU, but should still support a socketed CPU (whether AM4, LGA1200, or whatever). (If it's a laptop, should have a screen no larger than 7", and still have the socketed CPU and be "build it yourself"). Some example cases: Silverstone PT13, PT14, Morex 557, Streacom F1CB-EVO, In Win BQ656T, Antec ISK 110 VESA, ASRock DeskMini A/X300 (except maybe still too thick), just to name a few that I found while looking for small ones. The largest of those is about 3.6 liters or so. I'd especially like to see one built in a case so small that a Thin Mini ITX board by itself takes up the entire horizontal and vertical space in the case -- horizontally, the board touches all 4 inside edges of the case (with the I/O of course accessible out on one side), and vertically, the highest part of the ITX board touches the top of the case. A google search tells me the maximum height for Thin ITX would be about 20mm, or 25mm with the I/O shield, so yes it would be a challenge finding a CPU cooler that would fit within that limit. Might have to mod a laptop cooler? 😄 171mm x 171mm x 25mm =731.025 milliliters (the form factor is 170x170mm but I added 1mm on each side to accommodate the sides of the case) ... yeah that would be a pretty small form factor. 😊 Or maybe one using Mini STX, with similar space constraints? I think there might have been an AM4 board with that form factor... (hopefully it would support the 3200/3400G, or at least the 2200/2400G, not sure if it would support the 5000 series though.) Was just thinking... if you wanted to go really crazy ... a build with an ASRock Rack ROMED4ID-2T (it's a bit longer than mini ITX at 6.7" x 8.2") and a 64-core AMD Epyc Rome/Milan CPU, in a case that's 171mm x 209mm x 44mm (height for standard Mini ITX shield), or about 1.5725 liters. The GPU might be a bit weak though - I see the board has just a VGA output, and the specs mention ASPEED AST2500 graphics, so idk how that would bench in 3DMark. But, I hear the Threadripper 3990X can run Crysis in software mode *WITHOUT* a GPU, so I presume a 64-Epyc CPU could do some software-mode gaming as well?
this is really helpful in current state of things! thank you! moreover, really interested to know about the comparison of I-gpu between 4650G and 11500 :)
I just did a system with ryzen 3 pro 4350g (ali express) in a master box nr400, gigabyte a520m s2h, 16g 3200 ddr4, noctua c14s (gift), reused my pc power and cooling 750w psu, 1 tb nvme team ssd. Yes I still use the OOD for burning cds and dvds for people and events. Some things before you commit back I went single channel for now as I will buy a second stick of memory when I have some more budget. I don't need nor want a gen 4 gpu so a520 works great for me. Might end up upgrading cpu once pricing goes back down. Mainly used for a work station, photo and video rendering, very mild gaming as I don't have the time.
@@calebb7012 Well yeah, that's true, but 533 to 733 is still pretty cheap. You can pay more into a gpu currently then all the parts doubled in some cases.
SZCPU store is actually the very best rated CPU store on aliexpress. They will ship (fast), and when they ship they do a great job with packaging. Then again, no amount of packaging power will be able to totally withstand the tsunami unleashed by postal services.
Hi Paul, thanks for the quality content as always. Just here to let you know that in France we can buy the Ryzen5 4650G in retail at around 260 dollars and with a Wraith Stealth cooler included. I'm surprised that you can't find it in the US. Better prices for us for a change, I won't complain 😅.
The MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX does not automatically support Ryzen 5000 CPUs out of the box. That is not what the "MAX" designation means. The "MAX" designation means the BIOS is larger so it can support a larger number of CPUs and it also has a nicer looking interface.
@16:00 Scythe Cooler. Wasn't that just for LGA1151 boards, whilst i5-11xxx is LGA1200 MB's. Might be that Scythe can have mounting plates for LGA1200 included
I love Paul and his RUclips content. Lots of good info in this video !! We see eye-to-eye on a lot of build related issues. But here's one thing I noticed that shows his bias as a RUclips content provider. (OK, I just read Paul's pinned comment and he addresses my rant. But it's still worth mentioning.) At 14:35 he comments that "A uATX board in a full size ATX can look a little awkward." I wonder, are there any other parts that should be order LARGER than necessary... for aesthetic reasons? This concept rubs me the wrong way. If the large empty space inside your PC looks awkward, it's not because your motherboard is too small. It's because you case is too big!! I can just picture Kyle roasting some user, saying: "Your motherboard is too small, you should swap that out for a bigger one. I know it performs the same, and it's more expensive, and has features you will never use... but it looks better." I'm a huge fan of the uATX form factor. I believe at one time Paul was too, tough he seems to have abandoned it in recent years. Their are several advantages to uATX, but the most important is that it is small... that's the whole point. The insides of a computer are supposed to be covered up by the case so they're not seen... that's the whole point of a case. The reason not to use a full size ATX case is because it's enormous. We were building computers in that form factor in back in 1990. Computers were supposed to get smaller over time, eventually disappearing from sight, tacked beneath the desk or strapped behind the monitor. Unless you're using multiple GPUs, an array of storage drives, or some other space hungry use case, I wish people would stop supporting the full size ATX form factor. And for the love of Pete, please choose your PC parts based on performance and price, not on your aesthetic judgement about the relative size of the motherboard. This is not a knock on Paul. Just a topic worth discussing, imo.
Just built my wife a PC used the 3400g. Got mine through aliexpress for $130. It was used but, is working well. Good stand by until GPU prices are not so crazy.
I want to know how well the 4750 plays with a high end GPU. I know CPU matters less for 1440p so I can't imagine the 8 core part would be to much of a bottleneck.
I've been using the 3200G for about a year now, and tbh it's pretty good for light gaming and most E-Sports games, but overclocking is essential for the iGPU, I can easily get the Vega 8 GPU to 1700 MHz without many problems, although, I do recommend getting a better cooler if you are going to overclock because even with a spare Wraith Prism cooler, it got really toasty with Arctic MX-2 thermal paste under full load, but it certainly is possible.
I am a 56 year old newbie to pc builds .so what your saying is in this type of build I don't need a gpu to play games .but still do a upgrade later on. when the gpu's get instock and the prices come down .
Be Quiet recently announced the Pure Rock Slim 2 air cooler. I haven't seen that in stock anywhere and I doubt the actual price will be $25. The current Pure Rock Slim is selling for $40 to $50.
Giving my little sister a ryzen 3 3200g with an old r7 370. The dedicated card just barely inproves proformance, and I had to replace the GPU fans because bugss lived in it.
Paul I think you are better off using a cooler for the 11400 even if you are not overclocking it, it will go way past 90C even on gaming on the standard cooler if you leave the mobo power limits on auto (it goes up to like 140-150w of power consumption on auto)
It appears that APUs/iCPUs are going to be that only way to go for us cash-strapped would-be computer builders for the foreseeable future. Many thanks for covering this segment.
The issue with Intel CPUs is that as long as you're missing a dedicated GPU, your PC will be worth as much as a PC with a Ryzen CPU in it, from a gaming perspective. The only upside is that aside from gaming, your Intel PC can still do _something,_ like browsing the web. Ryzen PC will be a brick until you find any dGPU. Ryzen APUs are actually pretty decent, being capable of running almost anything that's from the PS4 generation and back. You might have to settle with console resolutions and framerates, but that's still loads better than no gaming at all. Even PS3 and WiiU emulation is very doable on the Zen+ and above APUs, so you won't be short of games to play while your dGPU arrives.
any video you make that deals with building any pc is fine with me, i know the gpus are hard to find, what can ya do, keep up the hard work and keep the awesome content flowing!!
I don't know if it's been addressed, but the version one slim rock pro could only be mounted in an up and down orientation, so only good if you have top fans or spaces for them.
Just did an order for a super budget upgrade-path build using a Ryzen 5 2200G. Came in well under $500 (all via Amazon Prime 5% back hmmmm) and I can hand someone a good Esports/retro system with all the cabling they'll need for future upgrades & the options afforded by a B450 mobo & a full ATX case. If I can make a few bucks off it in the process, that'd be swell. Worth mentioning Ryzen APU's get 10-15% gain using dual vs single channel RAM, even if specs are identical. IE x2 4 GB > x1 8gb.
But we need to upgrade our PCs for next gen games. My 1060 is starting having problems with recently releases. What are we going to do ? Pray game industry will hold back heavy graphics in games ? I dont think so.
I think you nailed it, Paul. The solution right now is integrated graphics. Yeah, you can't play high-end games on the highest settings, but at least you can get your work done and play some games. I also think that the current market in which no one can get graphics cards, lends additional value to the mid-range 11th Gen Intel processors - something few people are talking about.
It would have been cool to see what kind of performance you can get with those igpus and how it compares to low end gpu market, especially versus those 1050 ti wich is one of the rare gpu still available and terribly overpriced.
@@paulshardware But there are no builds listed as GPU-less (at least not that I saw) other than the $350 build. Are there any links for these exact builds?
7:55 - Any reason an X570 motherboard wasn't considered other than maybe price? It tends to have a wider CPU compatibility range, including the 12nm Zen+ series, and more PCIe gen 4 options. I know some might be hesitant to go with it because of the chipset fan, but if you're not a heavy overclocker and are willing to adjust the fan profile (or at least update the BIOS/UEFI), it rarely spins after the initial boot. As an example, for the Ryzen Pro 3400GE I pulled from a Lenovo m75q-1 tiny PC, I went with the ASRock X570m Pro4 because I eventually plan to upgrade to either a 4000G(E) series, which the board already supports, or upcoming 5000G series APU (which is expected to be as much supported on X570 as B550).
Paul: "Don't worry. None of these builds actually require a graphics card." Build Kidz/GPCMR: "WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!?!? Impossible!! Surely you lie, SIR!!"
Thank you Paul, for continuing this series of videos... it might be tough for people right now, but I hope you'd never feel like you need to stop doing something so many people love, just because of people being loud and crying that they can't get the newest new.... (my sympathias extends to people with something below an I7 920 and a gtx 960 - otherwise, clamp it, no one needs to hear it - we're all tired of the situation, but your complaints helps absolutely no one! - tweet at the manufacturers or something - don't bring our favourite people on the internet to not produce the content they find nice and appropriate)
Hey Paul, thanks for all your excellent work in putting together these parts lists. These are sooooooooooo useful right now, given the current parts climate. You're the best.
Could you tell if my build is ok??? CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 pro 4650g GPU: integrated graphics RAM: XPG D30 2x8gb 3200mHz cl16 SSD: XPG gammix S5 256gb HDD: 1tb Toshiba 2.5inch HDD Motherboard: Asus prime b550m-a WiFi
Nice Video.. I have a few people who need an out of the box working computer... without graphics cards... down the line or when they decide to get one they can. We mostly do CPU intensive work as well, Video Photo Music editing and things like that. So we kind of need the best of both worlds. Gaming after work/on break... and still be able to use the rig for work flow. I plan to build 3 or 4 of the same Computers for everyone and if they want to upgrade or add a gpu they can. Just not trying to break there wallets waiting for GPU's. While they are starting to show up a little bit more now, we keep our eyes out for them, We were just going to go with AMD's latest cards... but the NVIDIA cards are just that much better from what I have seen and heard. Appreciate the video.
I really like the idea of integrated graphics gaming benchmarks. I mean, what else can someone do if they're desperate? It's an interesting experiment at least
It is refreshing to see someone actually feature parts you can build right now or at least sooner than graphic cards will be priced properly. It’s so annoying seeing titles like “$1200 RTX 3060 build” I won’t even watch them anymore.
I picked up an I9-990K for a new system, then discovered that graphics cards were impossible to get. I have pretty much everything for a new system 'except' for a graphics card. Wondering if I should build with what I've got and just use its onboard graphics.
*APU + DDR5* Even though I won't buy one, I'm very interested to see what kind of performance they can get out of an APU by using DDR5 system memory, a chiplet approach to APU's, and Infinity Cache to offset latency issues between the CPU and GPU etc... maybe a monolithic die makes more sense but I'm curious to see how a chiplet approach could even work. Would you have three chiplets such as (IO + 8-core CCD + GPU chiplet)? Would they use the same IO chiplet, or a modified one to use when you have a GPU chiplet?... and how far can you push performance within thermal dissipation limits or DDR5 bandwidth/latency limits? And lastly, would it make sense to create an APU which has its own VRAM?
As of now, the Intel M.2 NVMe slots are NOT all 4th gen. Only one of the two or three M.2 slots support gen 4 PCIe. That is a deal breaker for some folks. Wondering how much of a performance gain there is with the Intel graphics on the 11th gen 750 vs. 10th gen 730 ??
Nice video Paul. Would you consider building some of these and showcase their performance ? We'd at least show the kids interested in buying a 3080 to play Fortnite and Minecraft that there might be options out there.
Paul, I don't want to spread hate, and I love you and your content. But man, a build with a 4c/4t APU based on Zen+, which is two generations back, for a price that is even more expensive than what it was a year ago... No, I can't watch this, it hurts, it's just depressing.
@Paul's Hardware Another topic I think would be good during part shortages would be tips and tweaks. Things like OS optimization and tips on cleaning and maintenance on the PC that can make older systems last a bit longer and add some old performance back without having to buy new parts.
4650g on Amazon 300$ mine came with a cooler as well when though it was listed as tray. Not that I'm using the cooler but still better to have it. And I didn't risk some random site.
Thanks for watching guys! 🙏 Reminder: these are upgrade-path builds designed to eventually handle a discrete GPU, hence the full-size ATX choices and the higher wattage PSUs. CORRECTION: The Ryzen 3 3200G is 4 core / 4 thread, it does not have SMT enabled (like the 3400G). Description is fixed but my slide in the video is still wrong.
Do I have to have an APU to use onboard graphics? I finally hooked up on a regular priced 3300x and B550. Will this setup work at least for 4k movies?
I actually was about to start looking with a friend in mind since he's still got a GTX 660 and an old Phenom II X4 955. This made that easily a thousand times more simple. You may very well be my savior. Thank you.
You look alike my brother ngl
@@pearlrival3124 Yes you need an APU to use onboard graphics. The 3300x unfortunately doesn't have one, so you'd still need a discrete graphics card.
I jumped off that cliff too. I'm excited to see benchmark numbers for these chips I've never heard of. Thanks for the heads up Paul . Lets be optimistic and hope we get a really cool kind of rare part.
Would love to see some non-GPU builds benchmarked.
ruclips.net/video/2NdkShPrAKM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/2H1B7ibjJZg/видео.html
@@pavlaleinberger9555 So Intel CPU's GPUs for desktop suck for gaming though good for office 360, database work, etc.
@@yumri4 not really, I have used Ryzen 3500G (Vega 11) before. You won't play newest titles on it, of course, but you can game on it. That's the whole point of the video. If you REALLY need a computer right now and want to do some light to moderate gaming, APU (AMD) is a cheep way to go. I'd go with Vega 11 over Intel. The con is that it's only a 4 core 16 thread processor.
These should save on power too huh?
The current parts picker price for the GPU I have in my PC, is more than what I paid for the entire computer (GPU included) 2 years ago. You'd almost think that GPUs were made out of 9mm ammo.
I refuse to be butt fucked in this way so I just got £220 Radeon RX5500XT and am gonna sit tight with it and stay at 1080p another year or two.
Screw these people charging £1000 for a £400 GPU. I say let's not encourage it, do not buy them at that price no matter what. Always a better cheaper option, RX5500XTs are in stock USUALLY and for 1080p that's a top tier GPU!
Nvidia go to hell. AMD thanks for having a sub £250 top tier GPU in stock when I needed it!!
This would be funny if it wasn't so true...
@Klip One Yes it sucks to be me who's terrific at financing everything I want. Guess how because I don't allow hype train nonsense to suck my wallet dry...
But sure thing bro ... i'm sure being you is just fine ;) A guy who's great at paying £2000 for a thing that's barely worth £400 and tomorrow won't be worth squat :D
Best of luck with approach! You will need it.
@Prof Moore “Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” Aristotle said it right. I reckon you know what I mean, which makes 2/3 of us in this conversation!
@@DailyCorvid ....they're being sold for $800 and its not either companies' faults
@@DailyCorvid I just bought a quadro 5000, Nvidia is still a good company, surely better than AMD for gpus.
You are the only RUclipsr to always do multiple monthly builds , please don’t stop these , I like to see the best deals each month
"Woosh, woosh, *EXCELLENT!* " Is my new favourite channel intro! Nice video, by the way. You've explained everything very in a very understandable way. Thanks, Paul's Hardware
thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
I finished my first PC last week because of your monthly PC build videos so please don't stop doing them thats how i got introduced into the hobby
Awesome. Hope you made a video about it. I put my builds up 🆙 for fun 🤩 on RUclips
The Ryzen 3 3200g is 4c/4t
Also, in the Amazon you can see your post code and city, you should hide that...no?a
My PO Box is in the description of every video that also has that info so I don't see much point in hiding it. Thanks for the heads up though, I will correct the description 👍
@@paulshardware I thought it was from your personal house, good to know! 😅
@@hunterfabio I guess only Linus could possible do that oopsie
personally 2400G over 3200G anyday. Performs better with a discrete GPU and also same graphical performance and personally, often about 20$ ish cheaper. Just get some better RAM with the price gap and 2400G is still the better deal, also don't need to worry about board firmware and compatibility if you're using an older one
Ah, only now I see this comment. 😏
Great timing! My 15yo son and I are doing our first build. After a ton of research, we had almost exactly that 11600k build in our cart at newegg, but we've been nervous to pull the trigger. Felt good to see our decisions validated. Now we just more some more lawns and save up for a great GPU whenever they come back to reality!
@Mr Anderson yeah we are. That's part of our project. It'll hopefully be a fun experiment.
I dropped a 4650G into an ASRock A300 (took some messing around with the bios) and it works great. Very happy with that little mini!
I absolutely love my 2400G. It does 90% of what I want it to do and 99% of what I ask it to do.
It really was a god send
That 1 procent would drive me nuts🙄..
3200G user here, gotta say single core (overclocked just a little) it's comparable to far more expensive CPUs. Ryzen APU's are amazing :D Only thing it can't do is overclock past 4.1Ghz no matter how hard I push her!
But to be honest 3.9 boosting to 4.1 is absolutely amazing anyway - now added a Radeon card and it FLIES
@@Boemtie I know exactly what you mean. If it helps, thats more a statistical thing since nothing could be 100% perfect but when most of your interest is in games that can run on smartfridges its acceptable
@@nobodyyouknow1065 i play Fortnite 240hz competative. my 5800x is 100 procent bro it litteraly is perfect😑. Nothin less bro.
One thing to keep in mind for the RAM if you're building a system around a 3200g or 3400g, those are Zen+ cores not Zen2 and so has the old Zen+ IMC which can significantly limit how fast you can clock that RAM. Most 3600Mhz kits won't be able to actually run at full speed on those APUs. The kit in the video here actually might manage it because it uses Micron Rev-E chips which are easier on the memory controller to drive at a given speed, but AFAIK most other RAM chips that can run at those speeds are a bit more taxing on whatever memory controller you have trying to drive them and so a weaker IMC can't keep up. I'm currently running a 3400g with a 32GB kit of Crucial Ballistix 3600/CL16 that's running nice and stable at its XMP (albeit only after I ever-so-slightly bumped up the voltage going to the memory controller) but I've got a 16GB kit of G.Skill 3600/CL-17 running Samsung B-Die chips that was horribly unstable when trying to push it any faster then 3200Mhz on this exact same APU which I gather is the much more common outcome when trying to run fast RAM on 3000-series APUs.
I'm surprised you guys in States never knew about 4650g these difficult times!
Can't wait for Paul to review one of them👍 Perfect choice for anyone building right now without going for those gpu marked up scalperinos
Paul ... 3200G is a 4c/4t part (no SMT). The 3400G is the 4c/8t part.
Ah, the new video I intend to watch has arrived.
you have the noblest of intentions
This comment should be pinned to the top. This is the video that’s literally for everyone.
@@paulshardware Indeed, thank you good sir.
@@DaGunFatha It is, it isn't just gamers that use a PC.
@@paulshardware I need rtx 3090
Thanks Paul! You really care about your viewers' kidney. Really appreciate that
I'm genuinely interested in seeing the performance of the Ryzen 5 4650G and Ryzen 7 4750G! Looking forward for a review!
There are dozens of videos showing game performance with these APUs. For many games you can be better off with a 3400G because it has more (11) CUs. But for CPU tasks the 4650G and 4750G are much better since they have more CPU cores and more threads. For many/most games including Cyberpunk 2077 these APUs are fine as long as you don't want to push everything to the max.
Generally these APUs are about 10% slower than the equivalent CPU.
3400G 2500X
4650G 3600
4750G 3700
This is primarily because the APUs have smaller L3 cache. They usually have a smaller max memory limit and fewer available pcie lanes (since some lanes are used for graphics). IIUC the cache was sacrificed to keep the TDP the same with the addition of the gpu stuff.
The APUs are a generation behind which is why the first digits differ when I compare them with CPUs. I'm a big fan of these APUs. I have machines with a 3400G and with a 4650G. For price / performance the 4650G is a sweet spot. YMMVG.
I first ordered the 4650G (at a very low price) from AliExpress but it never showed up and I got a full refund.
@@BitJam Cyberpunk is basically unplayable on an apu...
@@drunkhusband6257 That's strange. I don't know why RUclipsrs would post phony results of using APUs to play it. Search RUclips for "Cyberpunk" and "3400G" or "4750G". A even person in a comment under this video saying they had good results.
@@BitJam Under 30fps in lowest settings is NOT playable....
@@drunkhusband6257 Sorry for misleading you. I'm not a gamer. The videos looked fine to me and many of the comments under them remarked on how playable it looked. Maybe "playable" is a subjective term.
Just realized this video was only released a minute ago! perfect timing, Im glad your schedule is molded around my schedule ;)
thanks for getting here so early 😅
I have a number of Guild mates with very old systems. They want to play WoW: Shadowlands. I have shared this video with them via our Discord. Thank you greatly.
thank you very much, I hope it helps them out! 🙏
Paul: these builds don't need a gpu
Also Paul: here is a case to house big chonky gpu's
Upgrade path is the key.
Especially with B450 and its Max board variants that still allow for Zen3.
yup, what MegaMan said 😉
Ahaha fair point
@@MegaManNeo If only AMD had both cheap and good CPU for that board. Why cant we just hammer 11400 into it?!
If you aren't building to accommodate every upgrade path, you're handing someone a future headache.
The only complaint I have was “What took you so long to make an iGPU/APU build”. Otherwise great! Going to use this to do a build for a friend
I remember you had a similar video back during the 2016 drought.
Really glad to have intel options given the state of 3400G supply.
Remember when $700 pc's had a gaming gpu? Pepperidge farm remembers
Wow ram prices are sky rocketing
Fantastic help encouraging igpu buys, they are a smart buy rn
Yep. I just now built my mother a PC and im glad I wasn't stuck with terrible Intel graphics lol.
I was actually trying to pick parts for a pc build consisting of 4650G today (I can get it here for 240€, from local seller) and it pretty much matched most of your choices with only slight changes, this video made me a bit more confident in pulling the trigger.
That seems like a good deal atm, I can't find any of those chips for under $400 without a month long journey from China.
I already ordered ASRock B550m Pro 4/ 4650G / Be quiet cooler / Kingston A2000 500GB NVMe / 2x8GB 3200MHz Patriot Viper Steel 4/ 500W Seasonic psu / Zalman case and a few fans for 600€ today. Should be here within a few days, can't wait to build it !
I just asked a friend if I could do a build without a graphics card and he said no. I'm glad I was able to share this link with him. :)
I would love to see an actual test of these setups for gaming!
They aren't too bad if you play with low graphics config
I basically got the 4650g system, just a few minor differences. It's really a good system
How's the gaming performance?
"Stock has been sort of variable and difficult to predict"....Biggest understatement of 2021. Thank you miners....
I remember when I learned pc building from Paul’s newegg videos back in 2014, thanks Paul.
I'd recommend the 11500 instead of the 11400, got Intel UHD 750 instead of 730 graphics (which makes quite a difference) and is a smidgeon faster for just 10 bucks extra.
benchmarks for the 4650g would be insane. I never knew the 4000 were actual chips, always thought they were laptop only.
what time to be alive...
less than 10 years ago my build was about $800-$850 and it had i5 3570k and gtx 660Ti, and i was able to play the latest AAA games in 1080p60 at high settings (some specific titles at mid settings). and now for the same money all you can do is play e-sport titles. anything more demanding you have to play at 720p30 low
Im dipping into the "master race" pc gaming and this looks like an attractive proposition. Im not ready so spend for a gpu especially at the prices theyre going for now. This is pretty cool, this paul guy.
For the cases i would actually recommend the phanteks eclipse p300a because its 50 dollars and its pretty similar to the h510, you can also get the mesh version for better airflow for 60 bucks
I had another idea for a build category for while we can't get GPUs at reasonable prices:
Ultra SFF builds. 😊
As in, too small to fit a dGPU, except *maybe* a single-slot low-profile GPU, or an MXM GPU, but should still support a socketed CPU (whether AM4, LGA1200, or whatever). (If it's a laptop, should have a screen no larger than 7", and still have the socketed CPU and be "build it yourself").
Some example cases: Silverstone PT13, PT14, Morex 557, Streacom F1CB-EVO, In Win BQ656T, Antec ISK 110 VESA, ASRock DeskMini A/X300 (except maybe still too thick), just to name a few that I found while looking for small ones. The largest of those is about 3.6 liters or so.
I'd especially like to see one built in a case so small that a Thin Mini ITX board by itself takes up the entire horizontal and vertical space in the case -- horizontally, the board touches all 4 inside edges of the case (with the I/O of course accessible out on one side), and vertically, the highest part of the ITX board touches the top of the case.
A google search tells me the maximum height for Thin ITX would be about 20mm, or 25mm with the I/O shield, so yes it would be a challenge finding a CPU cooler that would fit within that limit. Might have to mod a laptop cooler? 😄
171mm x 171mm x 25mm =731.025 milliliters (the form factor is 170x170mm but I added 1mm on each side to accommodate the sides of the case) ... yeah that would be a pretty small form factor. 😊
Or maybe one using Mini STX, with similar space constraints? I think there might have been an AM4 board with that form factor... (hopefully it would support the 3200/3400G, or at least the 2200/2400G, not sure if it would support the 5000 series though.)
Was just thinking... if you wanted to go really crazy ... a build with an ASRock Rack ROMED4ID-2T (it's a bit longer than mini ITX at 6.7" x 8.2") and a 64-core AMD Epyc Rome/Milan CPU, in a case that's 171mm x 209mm x 44mm (height for standard Mini ITX shield), or about 1.5725 liters.
The GPU might be a bit weak though - I see the board has just a VGA output, and the specs mention ASPEED AST2500 graphics, so idk how that would bench in 3DMark.
But, I hear the Threadripper 3990X can run Crysis in software mode *WITHOUT* a GPU, so I presume a 64-Epyc CPU could do some software-mode gaming as well?
this is really helpful in current state of things! thank you! moreover, really interested to know about the comparison of I-gpu between 4650G and 11500 :)
This would be a great comparison!
I just did a system with ryzen 3 pro 4350g (ali express) in a master box nr400, gigabyte a520m s2h, 16g 3200 ddr4, noctua c14s (gift), reused my pc power and cooling 750w psu, 1 tb nvme team ssd. Yes I still use the OOD for burning cds and dvds for people and events.
Some things before you commit back I went single channel for now as I will buy a second stick of memory when I have some more budget. I don't need nor want a gen 4 gpu so a520 works great for me. Might end up upgrading cpu once pricing goes back down.
Mainly used for a work station, photo and video rendering, very mild gaming as I don't have the time.
Ultra Cheap builds today boys, we don't have donate a kidney!
You do still though🧐
Let's Make this Lil Guy's wish
These aren't ultra cheap though. $700+ for a pc is still way up from what you could build yourself 3-4 years ago.
@@calebb7012 Well yeah, that's true, but 533 to 733 is still pretty cheap. You can pay more into a gpu currently then all the parts doubled in some cases.
only if you dont live in brazil lul
these are the videos I watch wile waiting for my pc to render my scenes in blender
SZCPU store is actually the very best rated CPU store on aliexpress. They will ship (fast), and when they ship they do a great job with packaging.
Then again, no amount of packaging power will be able to totally withstand the tsunami unleashed by postal services.
Isn't the 3200g a true quad core no hyper threading keep that in mind if you pick one of these up.
For the best upgrade path always give priority to the motherboard and power supply.
Hi Paul, thanks for the quality content as always.
Just here to let you know that in France we can buy the Ryzen5 4650G in retail at around 260 dollars and with a Wraith Stealth cooler included.
I'm surprised that you can't find it in the US. Better prices for us for a change, I won't complain 😅.
The MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX does not automatically support Ryzen 5000 CPUs out of the box. That is not what the "MAX" designation means. The "MAX" designation means the BIOS is larger so it can support a larger number of CPUs and it also has a nicer looking interface.
@16:00 Scythe Cooler. Wasn't that just for LGA1151 boards, whilst i5-11xxx is LGA1200 MB's. Might be that Scythe can have mounting plates for LGA1200 included
imagine getting caught up in the amd hype, but cant get a gpu, and then cant use your PC at all... what a time to be alive.
I love Paul and his RUclips content. Lots of good info in this video !!
We see eye-to-eye on a lot of build related issues.
But here's one thing I noticed that shows his bias as a RUclips content provider.
(OK, I just read Paul's pinned comment and he addresses my rant. But it's still worth mentioning.)
At 14:35 he comments that "A uATX board in a full size ATX can look a little awkward."
I wonder, are there any other parts that should be order LARGER than necessary... for aesthetic reasons?
This concept rubs me the wrong way.
If the large empty space inside your PC looks awkward, it's not because your motherboard is too small.
It's because you case is too big!!
I can just picture Kyle roasting some user, saying:
"Your motherboard is too small, you should swap that out for a bigger one.
I know it performs the same, and it's more expensive, and has features you will never use... but it looks better."
I'm a huge fan of the uATX form factor. I believe at one time Paul was too, tough he seems to have abandoned it in recent years.
Their are several advantages to uATX, but the most important is that it is small... that's the whole point.
The insides of a computer are supposed to be covered up by the case so they're not seen... that's the whole point of a case.
The reason not to use a full size ATX case is because it's enormous. We were building computers in that form factor in back in 1990.
Computers were supposed to get smaller over time, eventually disappearing from sight, tacked beneath the desk or strapped behind the monitor.
Unless you're using multiple GPUs, an array of storage drives, or some other space hungry use case, I wish people would stop supporting the full size ATX form factor. And for the love of Pete, please choose your PC parts based on performance and price, not on your aesthetic judgement about the relative size of the motherboard.
This is not a knock on Paul. Just a topic worth discussing, imo.
Just built my wife a PC used the 3400g. Got mine through aliexpress for $130. It was used but, is working well. Good stand by until GPU prices are not so crazy.
I want to know how well the 4750 plays with a high end GPU. I know CPU matters less for 1440p so I can't imagine the 8 core part would be to much of a bottleneck.
Don't worry none of these builds need a gpu........ excellent!! It's never been so perfect
Just built a 3200 no GPU computer. I'm very pleased with it. Screw the scalpers
I've been using the 3200G for about a year now, and tbh it's pretty good for light gaming and most E-Sports games, but overclocking is essential for the iGPU, I can easily get the Vega 8 GPU to 1700 MHz without many problems, although, I do recommend getting a better cooler if you are going to overclock because even with a spare Wraith Prism cooler, it got really toasty with Arctic MX-2 thermal paste under full load, but it certainly is possible.
I am a 56 year old newbie to pc builds .so what your saying is in this type of build I don't need a gpu to play games .but still do a upgrade later on. when the gpu's get instock and the prices come down .
3200g doesnt have 8 threads, i have this cpu and task manager only shows 4 threads / 4 cores
Great video! Love the realistic aspect of these builds considering the difficulty of finding even used GPU's right now.
Be Quiet recently announced the Pure Rock Slim 2 air cooler. I haven't seen that in stock anywhere and I doubt the actual price will be $25. The current Pure Rock Slim is selling for $40 to $50.
I like how THIS is the solution.
Giving my little sister a ryzen 3 3200g with an old r7 370. The dedicated card just barely inproves proformance, and I had to replace the GPU fans because bugss lived in it.
Is there a video about what to do with old components after upgrading your rig? Places to sell them or something? Craigslist?
THIS! +1 🔥
I know this year's been tough but I'm gonna be stoked when Awesome Hardware resumes
APUs and iGPUs are what I recommended to friends as well
I still recommend the cheapest gtx 1650 laptop if you're in dire straits though....
Paul I think you are better off using a cooler for the 11400 even if you are not overclocking it, it will go way past 90C even on gaming on the standard cooler if you leave the mobo power limits on auto (it goes up to like 140-150w of power consumption on auto)
It appears that APUs/iCPUs are going to be that only way to go for us cash-strapped would-be computer builders for the foreseeable future. Many thanks for covering this segment.
The issue with Intel CPUs is that as long as you're missing a dedicated GPU, your PC will be worth as much as a PC with a Ryzen CPU in it, from a gaming perspective. The only upside is that aside from gaming, your Intel PC can still do _something,_ like browsing the web. Ryzen PC will be a brick until you find any dGPU.
Ryzen APUs are actually pretty decent, being capable of running almost anything that's from the PS4 generation and back. You might have to settle with console resolutions and framerates, but that's still loads better than no gaming at all. Even PS3 and WiiU emulation is very doable on the Zen+ and above APUs, so you won't be short of games to play while your dGPU arrives.
any video you make that deals with building any pc is fine with me, i know the gpus are hard to find, what can ya do, keep up the hard work and keep the awesome content flowing!!
I don't know if it's been addressed, but the version one slim rock pro could only be mounted in an up and down orientation, so only good if you have top fans or spaces for them.
Honestly if I was going to build a pc today I would totally go Intel, they haven't seen a price hike like the amd chips.
Just did an order for a super budget upgrade-path build using a Ryzen 5 2200G. Came in well under $500 (all via Amazon Prime 5% back hmmmm) and I can hand someone a good Esports/retro system with all the cabling they'll need for future upgrades & the options afforded by a B450 mobo & a full ATX case. If I can make a few bucks off it in the process, that'd be swell.
Worth mentioning Ryzen APU's get 10-15% gain using dual vs single channel RAM, even if specs are identical. IE x2 4 GB > x1 8gb.
But we need to upgrade our PCs for next gen games. My 1060 is starting having problems with recently releases. What are we going to do ? Pray game industry will hold back heavy graphics in games ? I dont think so.
I think you nailed it, Paul. The solution right now is integrated graphics. Yeah, you can't play high-end games on the highest settings, but at least you can get your work done and play some games. I also think that the current market in which no one can get graphics cards, lends additional value to the mid-range 11th Gen Intel processors - something few people are talking about.
I was told by a certain gentleman with a IT business in AZ not to deal with MSI. But something else, he said, as support is really poor on MSI units.
same here in india.
It would have been cool to see what kind of performance you can get with those igpus and how it compares to low end gpu market, especially versus those 1050 ti wich is one of the rare gpu still available and terribly overpriced.
I clicked on this video so I could watch you build a computer... I am now a sad.
that's why I always point to my builds playlist in the intro 😊
Dude you look like Kyle 👍😳😂🤣 that's why Paul responded.
@@paulshardware But there are no builds listed as GPU-less (at least not that I saw) other than the $350 build. Are there any links for these exact builds?
7:55 - Any reason an X570 motherboard wasn't considered other than maybe price? It tends to have a wider CPU compatibility range, including the 12nm Zen+ series, and more PCIe gen 4 options. I know some might be hesitant to go with it because of the chipset fan, but if you're not a heavy overclocker and are willing to adjust the fan profile (or at least update the BIOS/UEFI), it rarely spins after the initial boot.
As an example, for the Ryzen Pro 3400GE I pulled from a Lenovo m75q-1 tiny PC, I went with the ASRock X570m Pro4 because I eventually plan to upgrade to either a 4000G(E) series, which the board already supports, or upcoming 5000G series APU (which is expected to be as much supported on X570 as B550).
Paul: "Don't worry. None of these builds actually require a graphics card."
Build Kidz/GPCMR: "WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!?!? Impossible!! Surely you lie, SIR!!"
I have 3400g but I use an MSI B450-A Pro max. It is a cheaper motherboard, but it has usb flashback and solid vrm
Thank you Paul for being honest about the GPU situation
Thank you Paul, for continuing this series of videos... it might be tough for people right now, but I hope you'd never feel like you need to stop doing something so many people love, just because of people being loud and crying that they can't get the newest new....
(my sympathias extends to people with something below an I7 920 and a gtx 960 - otherwise, clamp it, no one needs to hear it - we're all tired of the situation, but your complaints helps absolutely no one! - tweet at the manufacturers or something - don't bring our favourite people on the internet to not produce the content they find nice and appropriate)
Hey Paul, thanks for all your excellent work in putting together these parts lists. These are sooooooooooo useful right now, given the current parts climate. You're the best.
Could you tell if my build is ok???
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 pro 4650g
GPU: integrated graphics
RAM: XPG D30 2x8gb 3200mHz cl16
SSD: XPG gammix S5 256gb
HDD: 1tb Toshiba 2.5inch HDD
Motherboard: Asus prime b550m-a WiFi
Nice Video.. I have a few people who need an out of the box working computer... without graphics cards... down the line or when they decide to get one they can. We mostly do CPU intensive work as well, Video Photo Music editing and things like that. So we kind of need the best of both worlds. Gaming after work/on break... and still be able to use the rig for work flow. I plan to build 3 or 4 of the same Computers for everyone and if they want to upgrade or add a gpu they can. Just not trying to break there wallets waiting for GPU's. While they are starting to show up a little bit more now, we keep our eyes out for them, We were just going to go with AMD's latest cards... but the NVIDIA cards are just that much better from what I have seen and heard. Appreciate the video.
I really like the idea of integrated graphics gaming benchmarks. I mean, what else can someone do if they're desperate? It's an interesting experiment at least
2:12 crazy to remember than the r3 2200g was launched in the previous GPU drought, and here wa are 4 years later still recomending it
The crucial 3600 speed ram is very fast with ryzen(i have a 5600x), I definitely recommend it.
It is refreshing to see someone actually feature parts you can build right now or at least sooner than graphic cards will be priced properly.
It’s so annoying seeing titles like “$1200 RTX 3060 build” I won’t even watch them anymore.
I picked up an I9-990K for a new system, then discovered that graphics cards were impossible to get. I have pretty much everything for a new system 'except' for a graphics card. Wondering if I should build with what I've got and just use its onboard graphics.
*APU + DDR5*
Even though I won't buy one, I'm very interested to see what kind of performance they can get out of an APU by using DDR5 system memory, a chiplet approach to APU's, and Infinity Cache to offset latency issues between the CPU and GPU etc... maybe a monolithic die makes more sense but I'm curious to see how a chiplet approach could even work. Would you have three chiplets such as (IO + 8-core CCD + GPU chiplet)? Would they use the same IO chiplet, or a modified one to use when you have a GPU chiplet?... and how far can you push performance within thermal dissipation limits or DDR5 bandwidth/latency limits?
And lastly, would it make sense to create an APU which has its own VRAM?
As of now, the Intel M.2 NVMe slots are NOT all 4th gen. Only one of the two or three M.2 slots support gen 4 PCIe. That is a deal breaker for some folks.
Wondering how much of a performance gain there is with the Intel graphics on the 11th gen 750 vs. 10th gen 730 ??
FYI the MSI B450M Bazooka WiFi Max is $89. Better budget option if someone is wanting to save money.
I don't know why people do "first" comments..... In unrelated news, I watched this at 2x speed, so I finished it before you did. ;-)
OH YEAH?! Well I'll watch at 2.5x speed next time.........
I built a system with a i5-10400 recently and I am very satisfied with it, hopefully I'll get the chance to buy a gpu sometime soon.
Great video Paul! Trying to convince my boss to trust in these APU's for midrange builds instead of scrambling for GPU's for every single system.
Nice video Paul. Would you consider building some of these and showcase their performance ? We'd at least show the kids interested in buying a 3080 to play Fortnite and Minecraft that there might be options out there.
Im using the 4750g bought it locally
Waiting on my 4650G from Ali now...ordered it about 10 days ago, just cleared US customs.
Great idea for the builds this month Paul!! I loved it.
Paul, I don't want to spread hate, and I love you and your content. But man, a build with a 4c/4t APU based on Zen+, which is two generations back, for a price that is even more expensive than what it was a year ago... No, I can't watch this, it hurts, it's just depressing.
@Paul's Hardware Another topic I think would be good during part shortages would be tips and tweaks. Things like OS optimization and tips on cleaning and maintenance on the PC that can make older systems last a bit longer and add some old performance back without having to buy new parts.
I did get a 3400g build
If you're a casual this is a pretty decent build till GPU normalize
Got an old Viper 2 case for $45 today. Will use it for a cheap build.
4650g on Amazon 300$ mine came with a cooler as well when though it was listed as tray. Not that I'm using the cooler but still better to have it. And I didn't risk some random site.
New games strategy: get intel cpu with igp, play really old games. I recommend Zork, or Planetfall.