How One Mistake DOOMED This Plane | Korean Air Lines 007
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (also known as KAL007 and KE007) was a scheduled Korean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska. On September 1, 1983, the airliner was shot down by a Soviet Su-15 interceptor, near Moneron Island west of Sakhalin in the Sea of Japan. The interceptor's pilot was Major Gennadi Osipovich. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Larry McDonald, a Representative from Georgia in the United States House of Representatives. The aircraft was en route from Anchorage to Seoul when it flew through Soviet prohibited airspace around the time of a U.S. aerial reconnaissance mission.
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The Tragic Story of Korean Air Lines Flight 007
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This case was very sad.
Why do you title it "Target Destroyed"?
The Korean jet was actually flying in Soviet Airspace during a very tense geopolitical era and lots of superpower posturing.
The Iranian jet that was shot down by the US Navy whilst it was flying in International Airspace had an ACI episode titled "Mistaken Identity"
Why are these two incidents treated differently?
Please, talk slower and more clearly. I had to check subtitles multiple times after failing to hear what you said and trying to listen three or four times. For example, you say very quickly "reconadministration", which the subtitles reveal to be "Reagan administration".
I definitely prefer your videos over some other channels of the same nature. Keep up the good work sir
The pilot to shoot it down was interviewed years later. If my memory serves, he was confident that he had not shot down the passenger jet - he shot down a spy plane.
That raises the question: is it a truth he believes, or is it the only truth he can live with?
See the Su-15 cockpit from the first place and try to spot another aircraft with it in pitch black night along with trying to control an aircraft unstable at slow speeds (for an interceptor) at the same tme. Sadly, slower and better cockpit visibility Mig-23 weren't widespread.
It's a freak accident.
@@MUSTDOS he seen the plane perfectly. Have you seen his interview?
@@change_your_oil_regularly4287 He saw it in pitch black still. He couldn't verify if it's a military aircraft disguised as a civilian one. Even its behavior is odd for a civilian aircraft and makes no sense.
But seriously, how much did they managed to screw up to go into a military airspace for a flight corridor that is known and close to it.
It's still unknown whether the pilots where asleep during the flight only to wake up the last few moments.
@@change_your_oil_regularly4287 See flight 188; the only thing that saved them was having compatible communication.
You would be surprised by the amount of stupid accidents that happen with civilian airliners...
It was both, a passenger plane deliberately off course so it could be used as a spy plane. The man who shot it down may feel bad, but it's the American Government that caused this incident. The space shuttle was overhead monitoring the Soviet response to an aircraft off course in their territory.
"The Target is Destroyed" by Seymour Hersh is a better account. Years later, Korean pilots noted that the senior KAL007 pilot had a grudge with the USSR and would regularly and intentionally skirt Soviet airspace. Others, like his copilots disagreed with his tactics but Korean flight culture at the time did not permit more junior flight officers to question or oppose senior decision making.
Incredible to see an American President Capable of speaking a sentence .
And at the time Reagan was the target of some comedy jokes for not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.
This is why the Clown Left’s attempted evasion of Biden being “too old” is BS.
Biden is too senile, too corrupt, too paid-for by the CCP-THIS is the real issue.
He's an actor lol, reading lines
@@TerryClarkAccordioncrazy Funny how he ended up as the one president who, without a doubt, had a serious degenerative neurological condition. Nothing is more indicative of that generation than letting an alzheimers patient keep the football, to keep up appearances (and keep power away from the anyone young enough to consider any eventual consequences). (OH, and to keep doing all the egregious racisms). When every president for the last 40+ yrs is considered shitty by most, maybe its not the presidents but the society electing them? We maybe need to shut the fuck up and stop letting bad faith actors into the forum.
All the ones I've heard could speak quite well. But the press and politicians from the other side jump on the times a president messes up, ignoring that everybody occasionally misspeaks.
Very tragic event and so sad to see the resemblance with the MH-17 crash. History repeats itself :(
Other then that excellent video as always! Love all the good work you put into these video's!
Iran air 655.
@@6z0 Both were Russians doing it, that is the resemblance people notice.
@@sladjanjovic8495 The f*cked up part was that the US even gave their people that shot down that airliner medals... No Russian got a medal for any of their "mistakes".
Iran even hanged the people responsible for their disaster. The US gave their people medals, and payed a minuscule amount in compensation without admitting fault, which is not exactly what they forced Qaddafi to do when he was tied to Pan Am Flight 103.
It's easy to understand anti-American sentiment in the world. Such inhuman c*nts they are sometimes.
Remember flight IR655 and American cruiser
@@сергейпараскун-я3ю Remember UIA Flight 752.
what a sad story...and knowing that they might have been conscious until the end is horrible. Thank you for the great explanation, really good video!
American politicians will condemn this fiercely but not take responsibility for Iran Air 655
True... blatant hypocrisy. They called the shootdown of KAL 007 'murder' and 'terrorism' when in fact the USSR genuinely believed at the time it was a spy plane. The plane was off course.
With Iran Air 655, the airliner was not off course at all, nor doing anything unusual in its maneuvers, but a hot headed navy captain had violated Iranian waters and then crapped his pants when a plane took off from a nearby airport, an airport _he_ had put his missile boat near to...
But the US just spoke about 'unfortunate mistakes' and the 'pressure of the situation'. 290 dead people because a Navy Captain wanted to throw his weight around.
@@jimbobeire 100%!
Wasn’t it a Korean Air jet that was almost shot down by US fighters on 9/11 when it went off course and failed to respond properly when contacted by ATC. The KAL pilot mistakenly set his transponder to the code for HIJACKING IN PROGRESS. Just before the KAL jet was about to enter restricted airspace and be shot down, the KAL pilot turned back and headed to western Canada. That was the last civilian jet to leave US airspace. It could have been a huge tragedy.
It was a Korean jet, but it was never off course, that bit about it 'mistekenly setting his transponder code and not responding properly when contacted by ATC' is also not quite correct. ATC actually instructed the pilots to set that code.
After they'd heard about the attacks in New York, and closing of airspace, one of the pilots sent a message back to the airline via the planes ACARS asking what might happen to their onward flight as a result of that morning's hijacks. Because his text contained reference to hijack, the company that provides the ACARS service reported it to the FAA and NORAD who sent fighter jets. ATC told the aircraft to set their transponder code to squawk 7500, which is the code for a hijacking.
The KAL crew did as they were asked, rather than realise that the ATC were under the misunderstanding about the hijack and assumed that the pilots would ask questions about why they were asked to change their transponder code, but the pilots though that with so many odd things going on that day, they should just do as ATC requests.
The plane did not turn back East towards Korea, it was already over Alaska heading for a scheduled refueling stop in Anchorage, but instead it was order to continue west to Whitehorse Canada where the plane was put in a remote part of the airport, surrounded by armed RMCP and searched.
RIP
To the passengers and crew of Korean Air Lines Flight 007
There had been a previous incident of another KAL aircraft being shot down by Soviet military in 1978 -- search for KAL 902.
Also, with KAL 007 the flight tail with its logo was illuminated and the aircraft had the correct lights that identified it as a civilian aircraft.
Absolutely, they knew it was marked as civilian. The problem is they were so programmed to believe anything outside of the USSR was pure evil that they simply assumed it was falsely marked as civilian, and therefore a valid target.
This was a very inhumane incident, and the person who pulled the trigger KNEW what they were doing could be killing hundreds of innocent people, but in a war mindset, the 'enemy' isn't people, and therefore it doesn't matter.
If they were REALLY interested in determining what it was, they could have used their radios to COMMUNICATE with the plan and direct it to land in soviet territory. On the ground they would have quickly been able to determine what it was, and send it on it's way.
They weren't, they simply wanted to kill an enemy target.
@@repatch43Blatant lies, read something about the concepts of internationalism and friendship of people and the soviet education system before making a fool of yourself.
@@ordenmanvrn7685 I saw with MH17 and Bucha and Mariupol what Russians think of "internationalism" and "friendship of people" and what their education system (read: dedovschina) teaches them. The only fool here is you - for thinking that they're anything more than heartless _animals._
@@repatch43 iran air 655?
@@sladjanjovic8495 Ahh, the 'whatabouta' defense.... That horrible incident has no bearing on what happened in this incident, UNLESS you are claiming it was somehow retribution?
Looking forward to watching your take on this tragic and needless loss.
About 5 years earlier, pretty much the exact same thing happened to a Korean Air 707 flying to anchorage. The pilots also had a navigation error and flew in the other direction to the Soviet Union. The Soviet fighter pilot thought the KAL logo was a Canadian maple leaf, and believed a NATO plane violated their airspace. He had no choice so he shot it down. Fortunately the plane landed successfully but 2 passengers unfortunately died
Seems like Korean air never learned their lesson from that crash
Another one: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902
That navigation error was much more incredible. They left Paris heading North West to go to Anchorage, and then make a huge right turn near Ellesmere Island and started heading South East. I can understand being somewhat confused by compass readings when close to the magnetic north pole, but their intended course would have had a slight turn to the left, and the Sun would have been at all times off their left wing, and yet there they were 3400 miles off course with the sun off their right wing as they fly over the Russian coast near Murmansk.
Luckily in that case, the missile just took off part of the wing, but the plane landed on a frozen lake. 2 passengers died from shrapnel, and the other 107 passengers and crew were detained, questioned and then allowed to fly home.
It’s not letting me watch, says no stream tap to retry ☹️
Same
Same
I'm a new subscriber and I am happy I found your Channel!!
Amazing videos. Excellent details 👌 👍
welcome! I hope you enjoy my collection 😄
All videos are very good. Keep improving the channel and bringing us these priceless videos!
thank you al!
Interesting vid. Will you be doing one on the Iran air, flight 655, disaster. I'm assuming so. I look forward to it
probably :)
UIA Flight 752 first! The Iranians have no excuse after crying about Flight 655 all the time.
@Dynasty001so being upset about innocent people being murdered is 'crying' to you? Seek help.
Thanks Airspace, l got to see the video !
A truly tragic event.
Didn't the Soviets try to establish radio contact at some point ? l guess not. Thanks again for the interesting report.
It doesn't seem so, no. Thank you, glad the video worked eventually
I think ground control tried but did not get a response. The Flagon pilot likely couldn't due to differences in the radios.
They actually did. No answer from boeing
Yet another very well put together production and narration.
No matter how many times i have read through and heard it... every time my heart sinks at the thought of how the cockpit crew must have tried to salvage the aircraft and even succeeded in the efforts initially.. but the haplessness they all must have felt ultimately.
Your channel is by far my favorite so when I saw you posted a new video, I got so excited! 😊 Once again, you did an absolutely fantastic job on this video! There’s a great book I recommend titled “Target is destroyed” that’s about this story. What’s crazy is that this wasn’t the only passenger aircraft that the Russians shot down. There was a Korean Air Lines 707 that was shot down before this one. And, of course, there was MH 17 that was shot down by the Russians as well.
Thabk you very much :)
The 707 was KAL902 (By an odd coincidence 9 + 0 - 2=7...) a plane which did a 'u-turn' in flight and ended up flying over Archangel while thinking they were over Canada. That 1978 incident would also be worth covering.
@@Graham-ce2yk 6 + 5 + 5 = 16 = 1 + 6 = 7 = yo momma 🤔
Well done video. His voice is very beautiful and the incident was very well portrayed. Keep up all the good work.
0:15 I miss Ron.
This channel is WAY better than air crash investigation form NG ! No drama,no Hollywoodish mise en scene. Just facts ! Keep doing the excellent work you are doing
Ur videos are so well made ❤️
I can see this channel growing fast. Keep up the good work, subscribed!
thank you!
I remember this. It was as horrible then as it is now. Russia was never held responsible.
Why would they it’s their airspace you clown 🤡
An interesting thing about GPS is that some receivers are still subject to export restrictions and are not able to be sold to certain countries. Commercially sold receivers are also designed to be somewhat inaccurate at higher speeds, preventing their use in cruise missiles.
Similar thing with infrared thermal cameras. These are universally subject to export restrictions, and the frame rate is a large part of this restriction. This prevents their use in heat seeking missiles.
For GPS, I imagine this dual use restriction will become more and more ineffective. Too much SDR knowledge in the public domain to prevent most target countries / orgs from designing their own receivers if they really want to. But just rising costs might be good enough short term, as reducing deployment rates might be good enough.
@@randomgeocacher I do play around with SDRs myself, but I’m fairly new so I couldn’t tell you one way or the other. What I do know is that ignoring technical limitations, you wouldn’t want to use GPS if you’re an adversarial state, because you are always at the behest of the US Government, which can turn the taps off at any time (such as just after 9/11 when GPS entered a degraded mode), and this is why large countries have their own. Russia has GLONASS, China has Beidou, Europe uses Galileo, and having a look, even Japan and India have their own constellations as well.
In any case, it seems like unless you’re allied, using another nation’s infrastructure is a fool’s errand.
P.S. I’ll also add that all of this comes under GNSS, and most modern receivers can receive them all at the same time. My iPhone right now can see: GPS, GLONASS, QZSS, Beidou, Galileo, and SBAS. IRNSS would also work if I was covered by it. It’s worth downloading a diagnostic app to see just how much is up there. You’d be surprised.
@@uzaiyaro hmmm interesting. What app? I know you posted this a year ago but I'm just now reading all this. Also is the app only for Iphone? I have android. Just curious.
Not mentioned in this video (or by Reagan or the US at the time) was that a US Air Force spy plane was flying quite near the track of KAL007 immediately before the airliner began to enter Soviet airspace around Kamchatka. The Kamchatka Peninsula was a highly-restricted area of the Soviet Union, where a variety of tests of both missiles and aircraft were held regularly. USAF planes equipped with a variety of information-gathering devices would routinely fly right along, or just into, Soviet airspace in this region, both to collect data and to see what the Soviet reaction would be to such an incursion.
From reports released decades later, there is no doubt that the Soviet command, both local and regional, were convinced that KAL007 was one of these spy flights, which for some reason had penetrated deeper than usual into their territory. Whether the pilots could identify the plane as to military, civilian, or disguised military cannot be proven. There is ample blame on all sides - the Korean pilots were either sloppy or incompetent to a great degree; the US had been, for years, taunting the Soviets and entering their airspace in the vicinity; and the Soviets failed to positively identify the target as hostile before firing, a basic and absolute rule.
In short, the only people who did not share blame were the passengers and cabin crew who died in a needless, senseless tragedy.
Thank you for your interesting videos!
thanks for watching 🙃
I am dissapointed in your inability to say Gennadij Nikolajevič Osipovič, its a rather simple name.
Did the people of the Soviet Union ever find out who shot it down? If I knew who it was I'd be furious ngl
Shooting down a plane is not a crime against humanity...
Ronald Reagan reverse: I am not a president in real life but I play one on TV
Very good video and great to watch
Has this happened before? Has a passenger plane crossed into soviet airspace on accident before this incident? I'd like to know, to see whether maybe the soviet union air forces were seriously annoyed because this kind of thing was happening too often. If anyone has any knowledge in this regard, thanks for sharing :)
not a passenger plane, but during a military excercise, US planes violated USSR airpsace a few days before. Maybe this set the soviets on edge...
@@AirspaceVideos yes, that could certainly set them on edge. Especially considering a 'winter storm' destroyed an important radar a few days earlier..
Do you suppose it would be difficult to mount spying equipment on a passenger plane? It seems like that could make a good cover story.
@@antonimalachowski5262 that is the very problem: it is trivial to convert a civil plane of a domestic military supplier into a spy plane. Even it is truly a civil variant with no modifications: nations to test air defence response. As said in the video: borders on the high sea are not clear - now imagine air space. Some incoursions are normal - some are provocation. Now imagine the audacity of flying over an undistbuted island.
@@sarowie I see. Both good points!
@@AirspaceVideos I think there are three instances of civilian airplanes violating Soviet airspace, one of those being a Finnair plane.
Good video
bro I am getting frustrated you need to upload more videos more often i was so eager.
good news, I'll be uploading more often again!
@@AirspaceVideos Great news i love your vids 👍
@@AirspaceVideos YAY!
Then five years later the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane Iranian Air Flight 655. Also a sad story. This crew (ship's crew) also got awards and promotion just like the Soviets. Imagine the Soviet smiles in the UN.
can you also make a video on Iran Air Flight 655, When US Navy Shot Down Civilian plane
noted
@@AirspaceVideos 👍
Or how about the the civilian plane that Iran or Russia shot down? it seems Russia has a pattern of shooting down airliners. it’s terrible either way
coincidence of gps and the unlikely chain of events.... airline industry is always subject to such corruption.. who can loose an entire plane with gps these days even a few years ago, with the engines still transmitting data long after that event? airplanes and the industry, are/were highly political platforms for this story you present makes little sense...as the world now is in chaos..... yet well done as usual.
There is a lot about this in Taylor Downing’s book, _’1983: The World at the Brink’._
Hope to see you do the Iran Air 655 case too
I can't blame the Soviets here. This is a very severe case of pilot error, I do believe they forgot to switch to Nav mode, and sheer negligence to fail to confirm their position.
Watching from Somalia.
The one mistake: letting a US Representative on board. RIP, the world is a sick place...
Your video brings back this horrifying incident _ I was extremely concerned about further escalation which might have occurred followings. The incident. I stilrl remember how close this became identical 1962 during the Cuban crisis (Iwas ten at that time)” I was also shocked to findc that the aircraft cabin crew were actually members of the South Korean Airforce pilots. (CCCP)airspace. It was not unheard of for NATO & other U.S. aircraft to overfly Soviet airspace, using whatever means available, & the Soviets attempted many times to do this over UK territory, eliciting RAF response actions, although these were actually military aircraft, they were certainly trying to provoke a reaction - which they did. If everything disintegrated so thoroughly, then how did they locate the ‘ black’ boxes?
Like your clear explanation! Very sad event. Very hard to think that a simple mistake took so many lives. Unimaginable.
This plane was shot down because of a us congressman was on board his name was ? Larry McDonald
Says no stream, tap to retry
Hi Airspace, l also have a no stream message. Time of trying to view 17:29 European time.
very odd. I have no idea what that could be! very annoying... try back later, I guess
Very odd, I’m subscribed + bell icon and I’m almost always watching your videos as soon as I see them, but RUclips didn’t notify about this one. Just learnt about it through the poll question… what’s going on?
I really don't know... I'm asking myself the same thing, my videos don't get a third of the views they used to 🤷🏼♂️
No one seems to remember that Nixon was to go on this plane but quietly shunted out last minute. Some people knew something and were surely doing something....
Did not know that Nixon was to be on this flight......GA congressman Larry MacDonald was on this flight
This video failed to mention that prior to this flight there was a series of spy plane flew in and out of soviet air space..
It wasn't a mistake, just a deliberate act. The US forces wanted to check how the USSR's air defense would react. They probably expected some kind of chaos and bullshit from the Soviet side. However, most likely they did not expect the plane to be shot down.
what's next are the aliens tickling your butthole too???
The James bond flight
A song was written about this by Gary Moore: Murder In The Skies
Time was running out for all on board,
Soaring up through the shadows of night.
High above the clouds the engines roared,
This would be their final flight.
The russians have shot down a plane on its way to Korea.
Two hundred and sixtynine innocent victims have died.
Murder in the skies came without a warning.
Murder in the skies, black September morning.
Murder in the skies.
Time was running out for everyone,
Flying over the Sea of Japan.
None would live to see the rising sun,
Death was following close at hand.
The Russians have shot down a plane on its way to Korea.
Two hundred and sixty nine innocent victims have died.
Murder in the skies came without a warning.
Murder in the skies, black September morning.
Murder in the skies came without a warning.
Murder in the skies, black September morning.
Murder in the skies came without a warning.
Murder in the skies, black September morning.
Murder in the skies came without a warning.
Murder in the skies, black September morning.
Murder in the skies.
Murder in the skies.
Murder in the skies.
Murder, murder in the skies.
Murder in the skies.
Really informative video 🖤
11:46 Thanks to those Chinese that died on the crash I don't get lost on my way to McDonald's. I love my GPS
You're back! You were missed!
The only American plane a Russian plane could shot down was an unharmed passenger jet.
Absolutely disgusting
The plane had been altered adding several 1000lbs to its weight. It was an attempt to get the Soviets to fire up there Phased array radar and so work out how to beat it.......funny how Korean Airlines planes have been shot down 3 times, hm? An American disgrace to risk the lives of civilians and then heap blame on the other side.
How is a korean airline thats owned and operated by Korea being used by America?
Because Korea is an ally. Duh! Why not ask WHY it gained all that weight? Why did it go of course within miles of leaving Alaska? It had a seasoned experienced former Air Force pilot in charge, 3 Inertial nav systems plus others. How about the 2 others shot down? "Ah, mere coincidence, of course."@@NokotanFanCentral
4:55 So like what is happening rn. with lying. About the Radar being fixed.
Starting with Reagen makes you a US imperialist propagandist
2 superpowers.. lol..
What a tragically sad loss that should never have happened.
😓❤️
I've seen a couple of different documentaries on this. An interview with the pilot that shot the plane down shows he sincerely believes it was a spy plane. According to those other documentaries, there was a US plane in the area. It was monitoring USSR missile testing at the time. It is theorized by some that at some point the two planes crossed paths, and when they diverged it could not be determined which one was the US plane. When the Korean plane then entered the USSR airspace, they took that to be the spy plane. The radar records of the flight from an Alaska Air Base were erased between 24 and 30 hours after the flight went down. The tapes were recycled, but if there was an accident that they might possibly be used in for litigation purposes, they were supposed to save the tapes. And even though by that point it was known that the plane was shot down, they still did not save the radar tapes.
I'm not saying this to defend the shooting down of a civilian plane. I really think a lot more should have been done to determine whether or not it was a civilian plane, and that if the fighter pilots had even an inkling that it was civilian, that should have been relayed to command. I think it was on the Air Disasters episode of this that they mentioned one Commander had failed to order a US plane to be shot down that was flying in the area previously and that person was fired, so those in charge at the time of the Kal flight entering USSR airspace were probably thinking about that too.
I did find it interesting though that the US said that a third or neutral party should be involved in the investigation when technically the NTSB would have investigated because it had taken off from the US and there were citizens on board, plus it was a Boeing. Also, knowing the fact that there was a US plane in the area would not really put them in a neutral place. The US government also made it so that none of their records could ever be subpoenaed. Basically, the ICAO cannot subpoena records. Once the NTSB investigation was done, the US DOJ assigned the investigation to the them. What this meant was that they could never subpoena their records.
It's really sad that innocent people got tangled up in this whole mess. Including the loved ones, thousands of people were affected by war and impatience when there was no need to. I think this kind of incident shows how much we need to try to get peace and work together instead of being against each other.
So I do think a lot of this info is in the air disasters episode, but I double checked on the hub of accuracy Wikipedia (insert sarcasm)
But as I've heard it on other documentaries I feel that most if not all of the info is valid. Also, I'm not a pilot, but I'm interested in how things work, what happens when things go wrong, and what we can do to try to prevent them from happening again.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
" I really think a lot more should have been done to determine whether or not it was a civilian plane, and that if the fighter pilots had even an inkling that it was civilian, that should have been relayed to command. "
Well, the US was able to intercept a lot of radio and telephone communications which they didn't make public for a long time, and their intel agencies had a clear picture that the Soviets actually did try to contact the unidentified plane on an emergency channel, but apparently nobody on the flight deck of KAL 007 was monitoring that channel. (Crew training and safety in Korean Airlines in the 70s and 80s was shockingly bad).
The pilot did mention the lights of the plane, but that would not be conclusive proof of anything. For example, the RC 135 that was spying on Russia just before KAL arrived could have the same lights. An E4B is a military version of the 747, and it has the same shape, lights and rows of windows. Just slap some paint on the outside to say "Korean Airlines" and it would be identical to KAL 007, so I think you can see why the Soviets, during the cold war, would not take it at face value that this is civilian.
Bear in mind that US spy flights happened a lot in the USSR and they were desperate to stop them.
" _When the Cold War dawned in the late 1940s, the United States realized that it had virtually _*_no information with which to plan a bombing campaign against the Soviet Union. * _ " That is the opening line from an article by a retired US Air Force Colonel writing about the history of spy flights over Soviet Territory, which he also describes as " _This was serious business, *essentially an act of war_*_ , for during peacetime such an overflight violated Soviet national sovereignty._ " [Emphasis added to both]
So for the USSR, allowing the plane to leave, after it had overflown a dozen sensitive coastal bases, air fields, bases for the navy and their nuclear submarines... that would be considered dangerous, because if a plane had collected sensitive data from an overflight, then allowing it to bring that data home would mean that the chances of an attack on those bases was increased.
Shooting down a spy plane was what was expected. When the USSR shot down a U2 spy flight, the US had no grounds to complain about it, because their plane was violating Soviet airspace.
The US would not have hesitated to shoot down any unknown aircraft it suspected to be a Soviet spy mission flying over the US. It wasn't about simple 'trespassing'. Spy missions are collecting information for future armed action, so simply 'escorting' the spy back out of the area is not the objective. The objective is to kill or capture the spy.
i.e. force a landing, or blow it out of the sky.
@@jimbobeire I can definitely understand why the USSR did it. The fact that they were tracking a spy plane made them believe that the KAL was the spy plane, and it did violate airspace. Seeing an interview with the pilot that shot it down really makes me believe he 100% believes that was a spy plane. As for trying to get their attention, I know it would have been hard for KAL to see the shots, but I think a motion can get to you when you think of all the lives lost because of the pilots' errors.
Looking at it from today's standards, the KAL crew must have been completely lacking in aptitude. That's the best way I can describe it while still trying to be respectful. It did always shock me that the pilots weren't criticized more than they were. Yes, mistakes happen, but that's why there are two pilots. ATC not noticing the plane wasn't where it's supposed to be or wasn't any place when it was supposed to be there in different zones was even more surprising.
I've always heard that it takes more than one thing for an accident to happen. And in this case, the pilots configured a setting incorrectly, they didn't notice that they were off course, and this all led to them being over USSR airspace.
@@rojo1193 Civilian air traffic radar over the ocean at the time was poor, and actually KAL 007 did fly so far north it also passed through the corner of a US military airspace off the Alaskan coast, but apparently the military weren't concerned about the intrusion, but also didn't think of the implication of the plane being off track so they didn't bother to contact ATC.
If you think this navigation error was bad, check out the flight path of Korean Air 902... supposed to fly north west from Paris to Anchorage, and instead of a left turn near the pole to head south west, made a dramatic turn way to the right to go south east...flew completely the wrong direction 3400 miles off course, over *Murmansk* and tried to flee to Finland when the Soviet Air Defence intercepted him, (this was in daylight) the Soviets shot the edge of the wing off forcing it to land. 2 killed by shrapnel, and the 107 survivors were detained and questioned before being released, but the plane was torn apart by the Soviet technicians checking for spy cameras and other devices. There weren't any, but the Soviets found it hard to believe that an airline captain could make such a huge navigational error.
There's a whole list of other accidents involving Korean Air, thankfully their safety has improved a lot.
Like most things in big business, improvements in safety procedures tend to be written in someone else's blood.
@@jimbobeire I've heard of that one too. At that time, I would have definitely been concerned if I had to take a KAL flight.
Another navigational error that stuns me was the one that crashed in the Amazon. I think it was Varig 254. The captain had been on vacation and they changed the way coordinates were input. He thought the decimal was in a different place and they ended up very of course to say the least.
The safety changes that have been made in just a hundred years is amazing. I have two small podcasts where I cover different types of events from crimes to tragedies. One is just based in my home area while the other is based anywhere else. I covered an Eastern Airlines flight, which might kind of tell you something there, that there's been speculation about why the plane actually crashed. There was never a 100% conclusion, but one theory was that the pilots wanted to experiment with the gust lock while flying the plane. I thought that no one would think of doing that, but the cause of the crash that the CAB had been investigating the day before was thought to have crashed because the pilots never disengaged the gust locks. Some investigators thought that the pilots of EAL 605 might have wanted to test what engaging the gust locks and flight would do as they were discussing the previous day's crash. I still thought this was out of the realm of all possibility until this again actually happened four months later, and the pilots actually did engage the gust lock purposely in flight.
Besides the outcome of the investigation just being speculation, it was a very interesting case because I think it was probably the quickest that an investigative team could get to the site. A flight carrying members of the CAB who were leaving New York from investigating a crash the day before was about 3 miles behind the crash flight. When they saw it happen, they had the plane circle over the crash site. This actually helped some people find the scene. Residents had heard or seen the crash, but one man said he wasn't exactly sure where it was but when he saw another plane circling, he knew it had to be in that direction. Unfortunately though, because of the angle the investigators couldn't really see the crash as it occurred but had spotted the wreckage from the air.
But comparing even the investigations from then to today is like night and day. That investigative report was just a few pages (nine in total but there really was just a few pages of actual investigative material) for a more complex airplane, whereas I'm looking at an NTSB report for my next episode about a Piper crash and it's the same length.
Anyway, sorry to go on, but I just find aviation so interesting even though I know it's something I could never do. It amazes me how somebody can control a machine that large and have such a great safety record. I know those safety records came out of cost from the days of early aviation, but they've improved so much and making sure that the redundancies are there.
The plane lights give it away that it was civilian though
Why does your voice sound like Mentour Pilot's voice? :D
Nobody knows 🙈😄
Nothing changed with those pigs.
Can fighters really not fly at mach 0.85 to track a commercial airliner? o.o
The Su-15 available at that time was designed to be an Interceptor for supersonic bombers and was notorious for slow speed handling; it's difficulty in landing was close to a space shuttle and cockpit visibility was poor
It was never designed for this scenario; mig-23 S series where underwhelming and did not receive massive adoption at that time.
It doesn't help matters either that actual spy planes we sent out would often fly so that the radar plot of their aircraft would be indistinguishable from that of a civilian plane until the very last minute before deviating off into Soviet airspace to spy. They had probably watched this happen before and so it would make them more likely to shoot a plane down because of their preconceived notion about what was going on.
That is the Boeing 747 800 and Not Boeing 747 200 funny funny.
And it happened again to MH17
is this script word for word the wikipedia post?
is it?
@@AirspaceVideos i believe so. not even paraphrased. i came here to learn more after reading the wiki. the added visuals were nice
You forget to add a critical event in the entire video - an American spy plane flew close to Soviet border just before flight 007 came close and it was very difficult to differentiate between a commercial plane and a spy plane for the Soviet pilots and the Korean pilots ignored or (ddnt see mayb) the warning gunshots fired from Soviet fighters,
If the Soviet union wanted to just shoot down the airliner to strictly guard their airspace they would just done that instantly rather than trying to ascertain which aircraft it was and why it intruded twice into Soviet airspace and it would have never opened to the world about the incident or the investigation
The KAL crew apparently were not monitoring the emergency channel that the Soviet airdefense on the ground tried to contact them with.
Also, as for the warning shots I think the pilot of the Su 15 at the time overestimated how visible his shots might have been. His jet was loaded with armor piercing rounds, no tracer rounds. They were hot and red leaving the barrel, but they cooled and darkened as they flew threw the air.
Luck was not on the side of KAL 007... (nor KAL 902 for that matter) ... if their error had brought them over some fairly empty part of Siberia it would have been less alarming to Soviet Air Defense, but the fact that it flew over a dozen or so coastal military facilities, including air defense and nuclear submarine bases... that suggests a spy mission. So does radio silence. So does any kind of evasive maneuver. KAL 007 changing altitude just as the Su 15 tried to pull along side would have deepened the Soviet belief that this was a spy plane.
@@jimbobeire exactly my frnd,it was destined to be doomed So many factors would have saved it but it ddnt come into play that night
it is a tragedy indeed but they did intrude the soviet air space didnt they?
This was before GPS was available to civilian transport, and also KAL's crew competence and safety was _awful_ in the 70s and 80s.
If you think _this_ was a bad navigational error, look up flight 902. They ended up 3400 miles off course. Left Paris heading north west to Anchorage Alaska, made a huge right turn near the pole and ended up going south east, so literally had the sun on the wrong side of the plane... and flew over Murmansk in north west Russia, before a Soviet Su 15 intercepted them, shot up their wing tip. 2 died from shrapnel, but the other 107 were interrogated and released.
So as a reminder:
The easy device location and so many other free services which American and other companies use and offer to their customers.
Can be thanked to the taxpayers in Murica... and the unfortunate devastation in hundreds of families.
The devastation brought about by unfortunate chain of events and military heavy regimes.
No stream, tap to retry
Surely a terrible crime
for more videos
Spies do usually fly on flight 007...
Did the plane not have those blinking lights that we all see on planes in the night sky? Would’ve been a sure giveaway that it was a passenger plane
yes it did
@@AirspaceVideos how the heck did the soviets “not know” if it was a passenger plane then?!
I wonder about that, too
@@mattdelarosa6819
If you were an enemy government trying to gather surveillance, putting normal lights and livery on a "passenger plane", fitting surveillance gear, and hoping your enemy is too polite to shoot down a plane potentially full of innocent civilians is a pretty decent plan. Even though this one was a genuine mistake, if Russia hadn't shot down this actual passenger plane there's a pretty good chance the US military would have repeated it soon after.
Exactly mate they knew
A completely avoidable tragedy, by both sides.
Thankyou again for another well made video.
This could be said about pretty much every tragedy though. Accidents are just bundles of various mistakes, ignorance and negligence
@@ordenmanvrn7685 Cheers, Geoff.
After the USSR fell the pilots were interviewed. As far as I remember they recognized the plane was a 747 but they were trained not to care.
The thing is, being a 747 didn't mean it *wasn't* a spy plane. Putting surveillance equipment in an old passenger plane is easy as pie.
@@Ellie-rx3jt it wouldn't need to be an old passenger plane. There are many military versions of these planes. Eg. the Boeing 707 airframe, in the military can be a KC 135 refueller or an RC 135 spy plane. Most of them are purpose built, not converted.
The E4 B is an airborne command and control plane. Look it up, it's a military version of a Boeing 747. The E4 -B entered service 9 years before this incident. It has the same hump, windows and lights as an airliner, just more antennas, and a different paintjob.
I think it would have been understandable for them to shoot it down if they had tried harder to catch their attention. No wonder they didn't respond. Maybe pull ahead of the nose and light the afterburners? But if the same thing happened in NORAD airspace they would absolutely have been shot down
I've heard Soviet fighters did not have radios that could be used to contact civilian aircraft. US fighters can. That would make a huge difference in a situation like this.
@@joatmon101b But the ground forces did try to contact them on an emergency channel. Nobody on KAL 007 was monitoring that channel though. These guys were deep into Soviet territory twice, overflew a dozen of their most sensitive coastal bases and were completely oblivious.
You are correct that the Su 15 had only a military UHF radio and no VHF radio, while the airliner only had HF and VHF.
There is an saying that people my think you're stupid so why open your mouth and prove it . Russian fly overs by so called USSR civil aircraft happened more than you would ever know . I experienced it twice while working at SAC BOMBER BASE in Upstate NY . They weren't shot down . Just escorted out of our airspace . You night want to keep your foolish comments to yourself . This is an adult conversation which is not for children .
I knew an ex USAF linguist who was onboard the blacked out RC-135 hiding under under KAL 007 that night, and according to him it was not uncommon for RC-135 to use its electronics to steer commercial jetliners into Soviet Airspace, so they cold hide beneath them blacked out to get closer to Soviet bases etc. with the assumption that they would never fire on a commercial airliner. That night he said the soviets spotted them near a secret rocket test, took a shot, and the the KAL flight took a missile intended for them as they evaded.
There was no RC-135 hiding underneath the 747. Thats gotta be one dumbest thing I’ve read in a while.
Major Gennadiy Osipovich: "I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing. I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing. It is easy to turn a civilian type of plane into one for military use."
Just another trigger happy Russian moron, case closed.
Me when I enter the makeup bullshit competition and my opponent is a youtube commenter named JDGillis: 😭
Pilots these days can't even stay on route R-20 smh
They killed him because he spoke the truth that’s the end of the story
THE ONLY MISTAKE THIS PLANE MADE WAS TAKING ON A PASSENGER NAMED SENATOR LARRY MCDONALD.
Hate to have been the guys who lied about fixing the radar😮
You say it was a 747-200 but the simulation shows a 747-400