@@machetegaming I’ve been playing Sampras in every topspin game. Topspin 4 I was ranked 90 in the world with Sampras. I’m ranked 500 with Sampras. And there are only certain players that are impossible to beat as a serve and volley player. The half volley in the game is broken and the only players who would have a chance to return Sampras serve and get into points are Andre, McEnroe and Federer. All of today’s players would have a hard time returning and being able to handle the volley. Just uneven players
@@larryfitterman non of the players who play today should have good services. Only the serve and volley and Federer should have the best serves. Pretty bad when sinner, Williams and sharapova are better serves then Sampras and Federer
As someone who recreationally plays tennis for over a decade, this feels nothing like tennis. Tennis elbow has much more of the game's essence in it's few GBs if even that much.
Phenomenal review. I stopped playing the game entirely after the first month. As you said, every single game felt the same, online was a horrid experience, and offline had no content (designed to push you online to make them more money) even though I paid full offline pricing. Lighting and graphics were stunning, animations were great, but that's pretty much it. I tried getting into FATS because someone told me it was "the FUMA (full manual) tennis equivalent of PES 2021", and it might very well be, but it's just so low budget that I need to push myself harder to get into it (I have it modded on my steam deck). I hope Tiebreak fixes the ball physics and maybe hires the FATS guy and buys out his engine, but that is just a pipedream.
The sad state of tennis gaming :/ There are games with decent (for tennis genre standards) production budgets (Topspin & Tiebreak) and then there are games with with passion, care and deep gameplay (Full Ace & Tennis Elbow 4). If only we could get one game combining the best aspects of both...
I echo the same feelings. I am sure the people who adore TopSpin gameplay are the people who don't watch a lot of tennis and who don't play Tennis regularly. Full Ace Tennis Simulator and Tennis Elbow 4 are the best so far. TieBreak looks promising but still a lot of work left to make it feel lot more realistic.
Slice is pretty much the only way I can effectively return the wide serve. It doesn't always work but it gives me a chance to get into the point. I like mixing up my serves, been having alot of success with kick serves tbh. I think everyone is expecting wide slice so it catches a few players out.
Right, his review just confirmed he is not good at Topspin. His reviews doesnt reflect the real capability of the Topspin. Others agrees which indicated they also have similarity with the reviewer.
Tie Break was a joke months ago in comparison with Top Spin but recently with last updates i have a lot more fun playing Tie Break. Ofc the animation arent as good as Top Spin but the gameplay is improving significantly update after update! The price comparison is a lot in favor of Tie Break too… so my choice is easy, i go for TB, expecting more major updates.
Recently I am playing top spin 4, everything of it is better than 2k except the old generation graphics. Your perfect timing shots are rewarding, you can choose tons of licensed players including the "big 4" back in the 2010s'. Perhaps they can consider to release a remake version of TS4, rather than making a new trashy game with their budget constrains. Good job dude! solid review!
I loved topspin 4, actually only stoppes playing it on xbox when 2k25 was released. At first I thought yes they have got this right and I was going to be happy but I was wrong. I agree with everthing you said. I loved the ability to play defensively in topspin4 and have the chance to beat the power hitters through excellent timing and tactical shots. 2k25 has taken this away, particularly with Sharapova, Williams and now even Sinner. Power attribute is overly rated and it is simply not possible to beat an average or above average player who just play power with any of these characters and this combined with the out wide serve from hell is just unplayable 95% of the time. I eventually just stopped trying online and leave the matches if these are my opponents. Secondly another problem is Agassi, the slow short angled shots are not played in real tennis and if they were the opponent would just blast them away down the line for a winner.... but guess what even with the overrated power in this game it suddenly fails to work in this scenario and Agassi just hits another slow short angle to the other side or he blasts one down the line powerfully even though he has no power.....😂 so frustrating. Lastly i'd say I'm a pretty good topspin 4 and 5 player and I only really lose to those power characters or much better gamers, but I am convinced theres hacking/cheating and boosting in this game! Players can run faster and hit shots that I just cannot hit and I have been playing the gameplay since 2008, its definitely not me - Im a decent player and some of these players shots are just not possible with the attributes they have. It almost feels like theres some sort bug/boost/hack where ypur opponent boosts their attributes and nulls yours, everything gets a little worse, less width, less power and more mistakes. I hate it now and will probably go back to my Jankovic, Roddick and Serena matches on topspin4 😂 Thanks for the video.
Everything you said 👍🏾. I will add that slice shot doesn’t have that outside curve to it on either forehead and backhand side. However, the poison slice skill set has worked for me at times. Still, I’m disappointed in the title. Spent way to much money on this💸💸💸😞. Now I’m waiting for Tiebreak Tennis to save me. Man if Tennis elbow had better graphics, 2k probably would not have bothered with this game. Money pit 🎾⤵️🕳️
Thanks for reviewing this game critically. Tennis fans like myself desperately want a modern tennis video game, so I understand why some people accept TS 2k25 for what it is. I couldn't do that because I saw within the first 15 minutes of playing the game that it was a low effort cash grab intended to take advantage of desperate tennis fans. I immediately got a refund. I won't buy another 2k sports game until they stop their predatory monetization practices that make their games worse to play, which means I'll probably never buy another 2k sports game lol.
Yes I gave up on top spin 2K after seeing the terrible career mode. Rallies take no skill at all. Boring. I play Tennis Elbow 4 and It is so much better. Presentation is not as polished, but it takes a lot of work to understand the strategies, but it feels so good when you outwit your opponent. It is hugely deep. Mods and updates are making it better all the time.
That's the network catching up between clients. It happens in games when the client and server aren't communicating well ("Your opponent has a bad connection")--the game is essentially trying to predict on your screen where your opponent will be based on the info their game delivers to the server. It's likely the opponent is actually in position to make the shot on their screen and the info is just being delivered slowly/badly, which causes the lag and sudden inhuman speed to make seemingly impossible shots on yours.
I completely agree, at first the gameplay was fun but it’s gotten boring very fast. The wide serving on every point as you mentioned is extremely frustrating especially when standing in a good position to take on the wide serve. Seeing people full power shot down the line over the high part of the net after a cross court low slice is hilarious. A lot of things don’t make sense, I know they said they are working on the wide serves but for it to not be addressed in the first major patch was extremely disappointing.
@@nibloe4104 the serving in the game is BS. If you are serving and standing out almost to the doubles like any shot hit down the line should be an automatic winner. Also the baseline hitter are OP. Williams, sinner are not good servers they just over power them in the serve. Players like Sampras who overpowered and hit aces because they depended highly on their serve should be able to hit the outside shots easily.
I played all of Topsin except 2k25 and thought the series was good until I found Tennis Elbow. The ball physics was amazing. I played TE2013 for years. When TE4 arrived, it was much more difficult to play, but everything was better, shorter rallies closer to real life. In TopSpin I realized how every shot felt like it was scripted or on a track if it makes sense and 2k25 was still the same. In TE4 each rally feels different. In TE4 you get wrong footed, you're most likely going to lose the point. You actually have to use strategy to win. My character is a counterpuncher and I played a match where the opponent used all my pace and hit harder. Once I stopped the powerful (acceleration) shots, I was able to be competitive. My opponent still had 3-4x my winner (and error) count each set. I won 1-6 7-6(7) 8-6, saving 1 match point. Talk about mentally taxing, but fun.
You can face a player with 30 stats, and he plays like a 80 stats and beat you easy.. Very STRANGE, i think already a lot of cheater use a BOOST Only good thing is Topspin are animations.
I hate the stamina system. Because if play you on legendary you always get a major injury after a grandslam tournament then your out for 5 months. You can't French open then Wimbledon
I've been playing Smash Court Tennis 3 on the PSP recently and it's insane how a game made in 2007 has better animations and more varied styles than this game 😂
Completely spot on with the gameplay analysis. I was so hyped to play this game but it’s been a severe let down . I definitely would think to myself while playing that the devs need to grasp tennis matches better, wide serves and power shots aren’t all it takes win . I hate to bash the devs but this game does seem like a lazy cash grab
When tiebreak comes out on console full game I’d love to see a comparison video TB and 2k with your opinion on the matter you seem an experts more than I ever be 😂 bought 2k and got a bit tired as everyone online use the same players, not sure if TB is worth it but at least they have the players 😂
I will defo do a comparison video between TS and TB when TB is fully released! Something tells me, though, that TB will be delayed, but that's just a hunch.
Gotta thank 2K for the free trial because if I wanted to get the game now I'll probably wait and get it when TB comes out. Yes there's things done well but at the moment it feels super unbalanced and ball physics are off. Plus content is a joke. I'll eventually get it but they managed to kill my hype I had since this game was announced
Well i agree with you this game is lack of content, and i agree the licensed player is a joke and the career mode is boring, but the gameplay is good. First of all i have in the 2k tour 150 wins and and around 20 loses... It is true that people use the wide serve meta, but i beat those kind of player too.... I agree that if you guess the direction of the serve, your shot should be more precise and strong, but it is possible to beat them. Second, not all of them, including me playing only with flat power shot, actually, control shots are more effective if you use them correctly. Also it's difficult to return good ball from the feet and it is matter where you stand to take a shot. Taking the ball early also have an advantage. Plus they fixed the world tour, you won't play against 30 level anymore if you are 2, maximum 10 level above you. But i do agree that the game needs more updates and frequently. But it's definitely the best tennis game right now ( i use console so I don't have tennis elbow or the other one). Tiebreak is a game that we should put an eye on.
Nice sober view of the state of tennis sims currently. The only thing I think the video gets wrong is it is ENTIRELY focused on online play but that's not every player's focus. It's NEVER mine. If the offline game is really good, then maybe I'll try the online. Feels like we are reviewing in reverse by going straight to ALL the online problems. I do have MAJOR gripes but this is 100% a step in the right direction. It's really crappy it takes a decade to get the slightest improvements in tennis sims but hey, it's more than we've had for a LONG time. I'm also console only so AO2 was good but just didn't feel quite right. This feels more like the Topspin of old, & Topspin 4 was & maybe is still the GOAT but it had a lot of issues people tend not to remember in both online and off...
I agreed. People need to know the learning curve of topspin. Its a bit harder than others, but when learned, its very enjoyable. I disagreed with some of the reviews above. It doesnt reflect the real capability of topspin.
Monetization is rampant in 2k games not just in this particular game, look at NBA 2K lol you get like 600 VC per career mode game and it cost over 200,000 VC to get your character to an 80 overall
I love and hate this game. You play an awesome approach shot. You follow into net, and by rights your volley into the open court should be assured, as it would be in life. But no! The 2K committee decided your first volley actually goes within reach of your opponent! But wait theres more! They now play a shot that is virtually impossible. Somehow passing you with a crazy angle, EVEN THOUGH you read it right and moved in thst direction. No! You didn't reach the ball. You lose. Sorry! Gotchya. You thought you were gonna break serve? Aha! Denied.
Right, that's actually an excellent question to gauge how similar our tastes in tennis games are. For me, the TS games have an arcade-ish take on tennis and were never my favorite approach in terms of being an actual tennis sim. If you loved the gameplay of TS4 and want to scratch that particular itch, TS 2k25 will probably do it for you. Though, TS 2k25 doesn't do anything better than TS4 did. I think the gameplay was better in TS4. I liked how there was no timing bar, as it made the game more challenging in a good way. TS4 was also a better product without the nonsense that comes with monetization. Leveling in career mode was faster and shorter; you had way more outfits for free, etc.
@@machetegaming Don't get me wrong, I was only mentioning the specific characteristic of tennis games in general. I haven't played top spin yet and was exploring the reviews before putting money in it. I was just reacting to the flaws you were mentioning. The main idea is that for me having any of those flaws, you yourself were talking about, is sufficient to be hesitant to buy this game.
This game is broken. It’s the definition of people making a game that know nothing about the sport. Players like Sampras and McEnroe are unplayable. And why dose Federer only have skills that target serve and volley players. The patches only ruined the game and favored certain players. Waste of money. Topspin4 is better by far.
I loved the Top Spin series but i just couldnt bring myself to buy 2k25, Such little content for such little content and a game stuck in 2014 not 2024. The problem Topspin has is its fans will defend it to the hilt and think everything is amazing. The series cannot get better with these kind of fans.
The game it's ok, but there are a few things that are still better in TopSpin 4 which make no sense... and somethings feels like there is an scripted play that you can't win. Like a rank 23103201203 that suddenly plays some incredible 4 ace in a row or some awesome shots.
great review...since this review, the latest patch finally addressed some things well. THE FIRST one that actually improved gameplay and what you're talking about. It's a decent playing game now, don't you think? THEY NEED TO ADD GAME MODES like tournaments, etc. It's pathetic...all I play is occasional exhibition matches or the my career....online was a joke, like you said...not sure if it has improved any.
Theres also the fact that volleys in this game straight up are useless. In topspin 4, since the ball was a lot shorter playing net was actually viable. Nowadays you can just hit a 100 mph flat shot that'll stun the opponent for 30 years, js to hit another one down the line lol.
Enjoy all your videos. You put a lot of time into them. I was so pumped for Topspin and preordered it. I stopped playing after a week. I'm a huge tennis fan and play tennis myself. I can't put my finger on it but the gameplay was not fun for me at all. The developers cut so many corners on this game. Player models and roster are a joke. Sampras and Alcaraz look terrible.
I've actually been playing 'Topspin 3' from 2008 and honestly its the best game ever made in the tennis world. Topspin 4 was good too but player errors in that game are rare too and as a result the rallies are too long.
This is my first ever tennis game and to be honest I really like it. Of course the meta tactics such as wide serving can be annoying but for me I can easily counter it (fully dependent on perfect timing).
Hey guys. I see that we are all disappointed with the game. Think the same way about the game. And that season 3 brings nothing new, no gameplay improvements. Hope the release of TieBreak next week will open a new fresh era ✌️
Wide serve abuse is so lame in this game, people would rather win so bad than have a good match, people are strange. Are we sure people don't cheat in the game?! I've had people quit on me in a ranked match and I don't get the win but if I quit a match then it counts as a loss
Love your opinion on basically everything cause this game is a typical cash grab, now im praying with everything i have that Tiebreak fixes its issues and becomes even better than it is now
This should be an online only review. I have not touched online matches & I won't til they put WAY more effort into them. I'm not singing it's praises bc to me it's Topspin 4 w/ some minor improvements (also played the snot out of AO tennis) but it's at least a step in the right direction. Did you dislike TopSpin4 also? No other sim has had all the majors officially. First tennis game to make net play viable at least offline. I'm playing career on hard having a great time, I hit every shot type (I rarely hit flat unless it's a slow high ball) &, not flexing, it's a bit too easy. Your list of gameplay components to a tennis shot, absolutely all make a difference in the timing most importantly & shot selection. The PC consistently hits an out ball if I go at the w/ power & depth. I understand the online frustrations but it's just a different game online. If they don't have offline in a good state, why would you jump into online where things are always much trickier to balance? My biggest gripe is the lack of customization with UI & sensitivity & a high risk button is missed. I loved TS4 but it was not a perfect game the way people romanticize it. Turn off the timing & power meters, you'll get the timing eventually & this is just more screen litter distractions.
Bro, i like your videos! Totally agree with you, i'm a fan of TS4 but i hate TS2K25 because of micro-transactions, bad gameplay and ugly player's faces. This game deserve a 12/20, not a 16 or a 17/20 like i saw in some reviews (i leave in France). Tiebreak's gameplay still clumsy mais it's a real simulation tennis game : good career mode, beautiful and numerous players, gameplay much closer to simulation...
Speaking on the Career mode: It’s horribly made a the energy system is a horrible design choice. For example I could start in the ATP Finals in December with 100% energy and by the end of the first match I’d have 70-80% stamina and by the end of the group stage I’d have 30% risking injury (happens when you are 35% and below). Basically it’s impossible to play ‘real tennis’ mode or ‘topspin’ mode because they are too long and EVEN when I did ‘short set’ I sometimes found myself losing 25% a game. Yes I upped stamina but it really doesn’t matter. Also the wide service meta is used by the ai to somewhat of an effect as if I’m playing someone like sinner for example, who has a great serve attribute, it’s almost impossible to win that point if his serve is correct (which from hard difficulty up which is what I play on is 60% of the time) Finally the only takeaway I have from Topspin2k25 is that the ‘Topspin Academy’ is actually very informative and good at teaching playstyles, the devs vision was to definitely make this game tactical but instead the usual 2k money grabbers decided 50-80 pounds wasn’t enough. Shambles but it’s the only tennis game I’ve played in a hot minute so I guess it’s in the same boat at the situation with EAFC
Give a shot to Tennis Elbow 4 and Full Ace if you're not too bothered by low polygon graphics. Tennis Elbow has the best career mode on the market, great AI, physics and shot variety, with different gameplay formula than most games Full Ace is more of a typical gameplay style with time-based shot release and precision aiming, but good physics and shot variety as well. Plus both are challenging and competitive online, if you like that.
I have been playing more of top spin 4 better game then top spin 5 just more enjoyable games vs the Ai and taken off the bars like shot bar stamina bar etc i agree what you saying about top spin 5 . I have also been playing Tiebreak but I think still too many issues to be a enjoyable game but I think the game is improving all the time with their patches
Ah yes, the unnecessary addition of shot timing bar. Forgot about it for the video! Topspin 4 had higher skill ceiling thanks to that. I wish that bar was not a thing, at least in online matches.
Clothing/gear being locked behind VC and the ridiculous stamina mechanic in career mode pretty much ruined the entire game for me. And the cherry on top of the shit sundae….. my game’s bugged and I can’t even launch the damn thing while connected to the internet. It crashes every single time I try to open it. I submitted a ticket to 2K Support over a week ago and they still haven’t replied. This game is a buggy, rushed cash grab that’s riddled with microtransactions. Don’t bother with it.
They actually released an update on Monday that fixed the issue for me, but at this point I’m so annoyed at the game and 2K that I just don’t have the heart to play it anymore.
I downloaded the demo, and it said I needed to create an account to play. Why would I do that? I just assumed it's been a game created to fleece people out of money, (and their details, to net them even more money) and I can't be dealing with that scumbaggish shite.
Played 100% Career. For me it was a lot of fun, BUT: In every turnament i played in the last rounds (semi/Final) against Alcaraz, Fritz or Medvedev, sometimes (previously) againgst Tiafoe and Shelton! Berrettini and Murray hardly ever. The first tournament rounds against fictional opponents. That fact was pretty boring! Tournaments with such less real Players! 😬 Support Team and Coaches with tasks are good, trainings and special events too!
Agreed... it gets super boring... serves are unreal, no game tactics besides flat power shot work... slice does NOTHING... topspin same, its nothing but boring... a shame.
Funny i am around 200, at the moment only players that can beat me are players playing precise shot, most boring play , i rather play hitter than precise defensive game as with precise your never go at fault , and waiting opponent to get tired and doing a fault
I just bought it, I don't mind it but ya it's not great, I just wanted to play a tennis game, it does seem better the Tiebreak, but it's nothing more than 7/10
the only quality of this game is that they rushed to get it out BEFORE tie break there is no real career mode and servers, omg, are awful like we're in 2005
2K have a big problems with the timing in his games ... We don't need a timing shoot in a fcking a tennis game man like ... why ? The online its literally unplayable , the servers are trash and evereybody spam the same thing over and over agian , it's so fcking BORING AND REPETITIVE and ppl don't care , they still spamming all the time , they don't even care about having fun in the game , they only care about WIN thats it, it's ridiculuos man i can`t understand this new generation of players " competitive pro players " everybody its a competitive sweat now , you can't enjoy online game anymore and having a good time , it's fucking frustrating
He’s basically saying you can play another tennis game that has its own faults and lacks polish in different categories than TopSpin. In short pick your poison.
I disagree. As long as a tennis game has the shot variety and physics close to the real thing the graphics aren't as important. A game like Chris Evert tennis on the NEs is totally playable because of the way the shots flow like real tennis even though the graphics are basic. When it comes to tennis games it's the play accuracy that makes a game great. TE4 and tennis elbow have this?
I disagree with your thought starting at 4.55. Try to play as a pro player vs player online and there are depth in there. Here is the good example of two pros players online: ruclips.net/video/dsM6xP2S3Mw/видео.html . Noticed the game depth in there. The ball placement is very realistic, not just left and right ball thing that you said. Your review is just your point of view and doesnt reflect the real capability of the game if played by good players. The learning curve of Topspin is a bit harder but when learned, its very good.
Thanks for suggestion! I've been playing Full Ace & Tennis Elbow much more than Topspin. First FA clicked more with me, but then TE got me hooked. Did you try both or just Full Ace?
@@machetegaming ive played both, but full ace is way more realistic, and the ball control and shot selection is way better than TE. TE is a great game but the game is not as deep when it comes to shot selection as it is in full ace . also the multiplayer community in Full ace is good, there are tournaments and the matches turn out to be very realistic.
Feels too generic. Everyone has the same boring animations. Everyone has the same style of tennis, like real life tennis. Shot animations are hidden behind paywalls and hours of gameplay to unlock higher tiers. I get bored real easy. I play tennis in real life and it doesn’t feel natural. 2K put this game out to entice tennis fans, who loved TS franchise, to spend money.
After the latest patch i can no longer play the world tur ranked with my created player it keeps crashing on the menu where it prompts u your next opponent . It freezes i got no.other option but too alt f4 and take a forfeit / lost match gg 2k Fuck this garbage game spend 120 euro on this crap
![ARGENTINA vs. CHILE [3-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 7](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/De3AWmXzhuA/mqdefault.jpg)
100% agree . Gameplay gets boring. Everyone is playing the same style. Never played again a Serve & Volley Player.....
I've been messing with Serve & Volley recently, and it's been fun! A nice change of pace, though hard to pull off consistently (at least for me).
I've played against one, and it was a really fun match up. And then it was back against the power players again 😔
You’re also a part of the problem since you play like everyone else just play serve and volley yourself and you’ll enjoy it much more
I am an old man, I do play serve-and-volley. Works best with Sampras, if you get the first volley right.
@@machetegaming I’ve been playing Sampras in every topspin game. Topspin 4 I was ranked 90 in the world with Sampras. I’m ranked 500 with Sampras. And there are only certain players that are impossible to beat as a serve and volley player. The half volley in the game is broken and the only players who would have a chance to return Sampras serve and get into points are Andre, McEnroe and Federer. All of today’s players would have a hard time returning and being able to handle the volley. Just uneven players
The game is fun at first, but it gets old super fast. It doesn't have enough depth to keep you engaged for more than a week or so.
Agree.I was a topspin 4 fan and was excited for this but got bored after 2 weeks.Haven't looked at it since.
The wide servers are what completely ruined it for me, im sticking to offline games now.
@@larryfitterman non of the players who play today should have good services. Only the serve and volley and Federer should have the best serves. Pretty bad when sinner, Williams and sharapova are better serves then Sampras and Federer
As someone who recreationally plays tennis for over a decade, this feels nothing like tennis. Tennis elbow has much more of the game's essence in it's few GBs if even that much.
Phenomenal review. I stopped playing the game entirely after the first month. As you said, every single game felt the same, online was a horrid experience, and offline had no content (designed to push you online to make them more money) even though I paid full offline pricing. Lighting and graphics were stunning, animations were great, but that's pretty much it. I tried getting into FATS because someone told me it was "the FUMA (full manual) tennis equivalent of PES 2021", and it might very well be, but it's just so low budget that I need to push myself harder to get into it (I have it modded on my steam deck). I hope Tiebreak fixes the ball physics and maybe hires the FATS guy and buys out his engine, but that is just a pipedream.
The sad state of tennis gaming :/
There are games with decent (for tennis genre standards) production budgets (Topspin & Tiebreak) and then there are games with with passion, care and deep gameplay (Full Ace & Tennis Elbow 4).
If only we could get one game combining the best aspects of both...
Completely agree. This should be a must to watch before buying the game
I echo the same feelings. I am sure the people who adore TopSpin gameplay are the people who don't watch a lot of tennis and who don't play Tennis regularly. Full Ace Tennis Simulator and Tennis Elbow 4 are the best so far. TieBreak looks promising but still a lot of work left to make it feel lot more realistic.
Slice is pretty much the only way I can effectively return the wide serve. It doesn't always work but it gives me a chance to get into the point. I like mixing up my serves, been having alot of success with kick serves tbh. I think everyone is expecting wide slice so it catches a few players out.
Your supposed to hit a wide serve back with top spin that’s tennis 101
@@MyStupidRUclipsHandle yes, but the game doesn't mirror real life.
@@pelnapkins4379 not every time but most of the time you just have to play it properly
Totally agree. Very boring. Full ace and tennis elbow cannot even be compared in terms of gameplay, they are far ahead.
Sounds like you are just not very good at playing it. Precision shots are easily played. Power shots shouldn’t be a winner every time you hit one.
Right, his review just confirmed he is not good at Topspin. His reviews doesnt reflect the real capability of the Topspin. Others agrees which indicated they also have similarity with the reviewer.
Great video that outwide serving and serving in general is ridiculous ....why mess up a good thing ....Topspin4 was just perfect !!!!!
Tie Break was a joke months ago in comparison with Top Spin but recently with last updates i have a lot more fun playing Tie Break. Ofc the animation arent as good as Top Spin but the gameplay is improving significantly update after update!
The price comparison is a lot in favor of Tie Break too… so my choice is easy, i go for TB, expecting more major updates.
Recently I am playing top spin 4, everything of it is better than 2k except the old generation graphics. Your perfect timing shots are rewarding, you can choose tons of licensed players including the "big 4" back in the 2010s'. Perhaps they can consider to release a remake version of TS4, rather than making a new trashy game with their budget constrains.
Good job dude! solid review!
I loved topspin 4, actually only stoppes playing it on xbox when 2k25 was released. At first I thought yes they have got this right and I was going to be happy but I was wrong.
I agree with everthing you said. I loved the ability to play defensively in topspin4 and have the chance to beat the power hitters through excellent timing and tactical shots. 2k25 has taken this away, particularly with Sharapova, Williams and now even Sinner. Power attribute is overly rated and it is simply not possible to beat an average or above average player who just play power with any of these characters and this combined with the out wide serve from hell is just unplayable 95% of the time. I eventually just stopped trying online and leave the matches if these are my opponents.
Secondly another problem is Agassi, the slow short angled shots are not played in real tennis and if they were the opponent would just blast them away down the line for a winner.... but guess what even with the overrated power in this game it suddenly fails to work in this scenario and Agassi just hits another slow short angle to the other side or he blasts one down the line powerfully even though he has no power.....😂 so frustrating.
Lastly i'd say I'm a pretty good topspin 4 and 5 player and I only really lose to those power characters or much better gamers, but I am convinced theres hacking/cheating and boosting in this game! Players can run faster and hit shots that I just cannot hit and I have been playing the gameplay since 2008, its definitely not me - Im a decent player and some of these players shots are just not possible with the attributes they have.
It almost feels like theres some sort bug/boost/hack where ypur opponent boosts their attributes and nulls yours, everything gets a little worse, less width, less power and more mistakes.
I hate it now and will probably go back to my Jankovic, Roddick and Serena matches on topspin4 😂
Thanks for the video.
Yes players use boost, i lose sometimes VS players with 30 stats everywhere, and im around 55 everywhere, and i cant do anything.. . . .
Everything you said 👍🏾. I will add that slice shot doesn’t have that outside curve to it on either forehead and backhand side. However, the poison slice skill set has worked for me at times.
Still, I’m disappointed in the title. Spent way to much money on this💸💸💸😞. Now I’m waiting for Tiebreak Tennis to save me. Man if Tennis elbow had better graphics, 2k probably would not have bothered with this game. Money pit 🎾⤵️🕳️
Tennis Elbow with proper funding would be a dream!
Thanks for reviewing this game critically. Tennis fans like myself desperately want a modern tennis video game, so I understand why some people accept TS 2k25 for what it is. I couldn't do that because I saw within the first 15 minutes of playing the game that it was a low effort cash grab intended to take advantage of desperate tennis fans. I immediately got a refund. I won't buy another 2k sports game until they stop their predatory monetization practices that make their games worse to play, which means I'll probably never buy another 2k sports game lol.
I am sorry about it. I didn’t play the tennis game but I just want to tell You that 2K has 2 excellent sports games: PGA Tour and MLB the shown
Yes I gave up on top spin 2K after seeing the terrible career mode. Rallies take no skill at all. Boring. I play Tennis Elbow 4 and It is so much better. Presentation is not as polished, but it takes a lot of work to understand the strategies, but it feels so good when you outwit your opponent. It is hugely deep. Mods and updates are making it better all the time.
at 8:10 in the video you can see an example of bad gameplay. that should clearly be a winner but for some magic reason the opponent can run like sonic
That's the network catching up between clients. It happens in games when the client and server aren't communicating well ("Your opponent has a bad connection")--the game is essentially trying to predict on your screen where your opponent will be based on the info their game delivers to the server. It's likely the opponent is actually in position to make the shot on their screen and the info is just being delivered slowly/badly, which causes the lag and sudden inhuman speed to make seemingly impossible shots on yours.
@@ralliman320not at all, because it also happen on my side when i hit X at the right moment the player run like flash
@@cedd9043 Oh, seriously? It looked like classic netcode to me, but if it happens locally, that's.. oh, that's bad.
I completely agree, at first the gameplay was fun but it’s gotten boring very fast. The wide serving on every point as you mentioned is extremely frustrating especially when standing in a good position to take on the wide serve. Seeing people full power shot down the line over the high part of the net after a cross court low slice is hilarious. A lot of things don’t make sense, I know they said they are working on the wide serves but for it to not be addressed in the first major patch was extremely disappointing.
@@nibloe4104 the serving in the game is BS. If you are serving and standing out almost to the doubles like any shot hit down the line should be an automatic winner. Also the baseline hitter are OP. Williams, sinner are not good servers they just over power them in the serve. Players like Sampras who overpowered and hit aces because they depended highly on their serve should be able to hit the outside shots easily.
I played all of Topsin except 2k25 and thought the series was good until I found Tennis Elbow. The ball physics was amazing. I played TE2013 for years. When TE4 arrived, it was much more difficult to play, but everything was better, shorter rallies closer to real life. In TopSpin I realized how every shot felt like it was scripted or on a track if it makes sense and 2k25 was still the same. In TE4 each rally feels different. In TE4 you get wrong footed, you're most likely going to lose the point. You actually have to use strategy to win. My character is a counterpuncher and I played a match where the opponent used all my pace and hit harder. Once I stopped the powerful (acceleration) shots, I was able to be competitive. My opponent still had 3-4x my winner (and error) count each set. I won 1-6 7-6(7) 8-6, saving 1 match point. Talk about mentally taxing, but fun.
You can face a player with 30 stats, and he plays like a 80 stats and beat you easy.. Very STRANGE, i think already a lot of cheater use a BOOST
Only good thing is Topspin are animations.
@@gouedallica their is also a timing cheat. Where players can hit perfect shots every time. And the OP players in pro tour are a joke
@@h-dawg1876 yes, i uninstalled the game
I hate the stamina system. Because if play you on legendary you always get a major injury after a grandslam tournament then your out for 5 months. You can't French open then Wimbledon
I've been playing Smash Court Tennis 3 on the PSP recently and it's insane how a game made in 2007 has better animations and more varied styles than this game 😂
Completely spot on with the gameplay analysis. I was so hyped to play this game but it’s been a severe let down . I definitely would think to myself while playing that the devs need to grasp tennis matches better, wide serves and power shots aren’t all it takes win . I hate to bash the devs but this game does seem like a lazy cash grab
When tiebreak comes out on console full game I’d love to see a comparison video TB and 2k with your opinion on the matter you seem an experts more than I ever be 😂 bought 2k and got a bit tired as everyone online use the same players, not sure if TB is worth it but at least they have the players 😂
I will defo do a comparison video between TS and TB when TB is fully released! Something tells me, though, that TB will be delayed, but that's just a hunch.
70 winners and 1 unforced error in my last matcht of 13 games total, this is a sci-fi game not a tennis game, too much unrealistic
Gotta thank 2K for the free trial because if I wanted to get the game now I'll probably wait and get it when TB comes out. Yes there's things done well but at the moment it feels super unbalanced and ball physics are off. Plus content is a joke. I'll eventually get it but they managed to kill my hype I had since this game was announced
Well i agree with you this game is lack of content, and i agree the licensed player is a joke and the career mode is boring, but the gameplay is good.
First of all i have in the 2k tour 150 wins and and around 20 loses...
It is true that people use the wide serve meta, but i beat those kind of player too.... I agree that if you guess the direction of the serve, your shot should be more precise and strong, but it is possible to beat them.
Second, not all of them, including me playing only with flat power shot, actually, control shots are more effective if you use them correctly.
Also it's difficult to return good ball from the feet and it is matter where you stand to take a shot.
Taking the ball early also have an advantage.
Plus they fixed the world tour, you won't play against 30 level anymore if you are 2, maximum 10 level above you.
But i do agree that the game needs more updates and frequently.
But it's definitely the best tennis game right now ( i use console so I don't have tennis elbow or the other one).
Tiebreak is a game that we should put an eye on.
Good info
Nice sober view of the state of tennis sims currently. The only thing I think the video gets wrong is it is ENTIRELY focused on online play but that's not every player's focus. It's NEVER mine. If the offline game is really good, then maybe I'll try the online. Feels like we are reviewing in reverse by going straight to ALL the online problems. I do have MAJOR gripes but this is 100% a step in the right direction. It's really crappy it takes a decade to get the slightest improvements in tennis sims but hey, it's more than we've had for a LONG time. I'm also console only so AO2 was good but just didn't feel quite right. This feels more like the Topspin of old, & Topspin 4 was & maybe is still the GOAT but it had a lot of issues people tend not to remember in both online and off...
I agreed. People need to know the learning curve of topspin. Its a bit harder than others, but when learned, its very enjoyable. I disagreed with some of the reviews above. It doesnt reflect the real capability of topspin.
Monetization is rampant in 2k games not just in this particular game, look at NBA 2K lol you get like 600 VC per career mode game and it cost over 200,000 VC to get your character to an 80 overall
I love and hate this game.
You play an awesome approach shot. You follow into net, and by rights your volley into the open court should be assured, as it would be in life. But no! The 2K committee decided your first volley actually goes within reach of your opponent! But wait theres more! They now play a shot that is virtually impossible. Somehow passing you with a crazy angle, EVEN THOUGH you read it right and moved in thst direction. No! You didn't reach the ball. You lose. Sorry! Gotchya. You thought you were gonna break serve? Aha! Denied.
Well now I must ask what your opinion on Top Spin 4 is/was. Just to get my thoughts right before buying the last installment of the series.
Right, that's actually an excellent question to gauge how similar our tastes in tennis games are.
For me, the TS games have an arcade-ish take on tennis and were never my favorite approach in terms of being an actual tennis sim.
If you loved the gameplay of TS4 and want to scratch that particular itch, TS 2k25 will probably do it for you.
Though, TS 2k25 doesn't do anything better than TS4 did.
I think the gameplay was better in TS4. I liked how there was no timing bar, as it made the game more challenging in a good way.
TS4 was also a better product without the nonsense that comes with monetization. Leveling in career mode was faster and shorter; you had way more outfits for free, etc.
love your tennis videos. i agree with you, imagine in 2024 2k can't make the ball bounce differently on clay and grass surfaces!!!
The problem with the tennis games is that one seemingly insignificant flaw in the game can ruin the whole game and makes it pointless to play.
Hmm which of these types of flaws you have in mind when it comes to Topspin?
@@machetegaming Don't get me wrong, I was only mentioning the specific characteristic of tennis games in general. I haven't played top spin yet and was exploring the reviews before putting money in it. I was just reacting to the flaws you were mentioning. The main idea is that for me having any of those flaws, you yourself were talking about, is sufficient to be hesitant to buy this game.
Gotcha. It is an interesting thought so I was just curious if you had something specific on your mind. I didn't take it wrong in any way.
This game is broken. It’s the definition of people making a game that know nothing about the sport. Players like Sampras and McEnroe are unplayable. And why dose Federer only have skills that target serve and volley players. The patches only ruined the game and favored certain players. Waste of money. Topspin4 is better by far.
I loved the Top Spin series but i just couldnt bring myself to buy 2k25, Such little content for such little content and a game stuck in 2014 not 2024. The problem Topspin has is its fans will defend it to the hilt and think everything is amazing. The series cannot get better with these kind of fans.
The game it's ok, but there are a few things that are still better in TopSpin 4 which make no sense... and somethings feels like there is an scripted play that you can't win. Like a rank 23103201203 that suddenly plays some incredible 4 ace in a row or some awesome shots.
Absolutely agree.
Having character models where the players look like they are made out of Play-Doh was the deal breaker for me.
great review...since this review, the latest patch finally addressed some things well. THE FIRST one that actually improved gameplay and what you're talking about. It's a decent playing game now, don't you think?
THEY NEED TO ADD GAME MODES like tournaments, etc. It's pathetic...all I play is occasional exhibition matches or the my career....online was a joke, like you said...not sure if it has improved any.
Theres also the fact that volleys in this game straight up are useless. In topspin 4, since the ball was a lot shorter playing net was actually viable. Nowadays you can just hit a 100 mph flat shot that'll stun the opponent for 30 years, js to hit another one down the line lol.
Enjoy all your videos. You put a lot of time into them. I was so pumped for Topspin and preordered it. I stopped playing after a week. I'm a huge tennis fan and play tennis myself. I can't put my finger on it but the gameplay was not fun for me at all. The developers cut so many corners on this game. Player models and roster are a joke. Sampras and Alcaraz look terrible.
Thank you kindly! I'm doing my best to produce as good content as I can!
Player models are bad indeed 😬
2k has your money, you are now useless to them until next year's release comes and they pull you in the promises of better gameplay and graphics.
I've actually been playing 'Topspin 3' from 2008 and honestly its the best game ever made in the tennis world. Topspin 4 was good too but player errors in that game are rare too and as a result the rallies are too long.
This is my first ever tennis game and to be honest I really like it. Of course the meta tactics such as wide serving can be annoying but for me I can easily counter it (fully dependent on perfect timing).
Hey guys.
I see that we are all disappointed with the game. Think the same way about the game. And that season 3 brings nothing new, no gameplay improvements.
Hope the release of TieBreak next week will open a new fresh era ✌️
Wide serve abuse is so lame in this game, people would rather win so bad than have a good match, people are strange.
Are we sure people don't cheat in the game?! I've had people quit on me in a ranked match and I don't get the win but if I quit a match then it counts as a loss
Happened to me several times, 'xyz left the match' - ' game set and match xyz' 😮
Love your opinion on basically everything cause this game is a typical cash grab, now im praying with everything i have that Tiebreak fixes its issues and becomes even better than it is now
This should be an online only review. I have not touched online matches & I won't til they put WAY more effort into them. I'm not singing it's praises bc to me it's Topspin 4 w/ some minor improvements (also played the snot out of AO tennis) but it's at least a step in the right direction. Did you dislike TopSpin4 also? No other sim has had all the majors officially. First tennis game to make net play viable at least offline. I'm playing career on hard having a great time, I hit every shot type (I rarely hit flat unless it's a slow high ball) &, not flexing, it's a bit too easy. Your list of gameplay components to a tennis shot, absolutely all make a difference in the timing most importantly & shot selection. The PC consistently hits an out ball if I go at the w/ power & depth. I understand the online frustrations but it's just a different game online. If they don't have offline in a good state, why would you jump into online where things are always much trickier to balance? My biggest gripe is the lack of customization with UI & sensitivity & a high risk button is missed. I loved TS4 but it was not a perfect game the way people romanticize it. Turn off the timing & power meters, you'll get the timing eventually & this is just more screen litter distractions.
Amazing video my boi! Love your content and editing!
What editing software do you use?
Your vids are so high quality
Thank you! I am glad you're enjoying my content :)
I'm using Adobe's apps (Premiere Pro, Photoshop & Audition) for most of content things.
Bro, i like your videos! Totally agree with you, i'm a fan of TS4 but i hate TS2K25 because of micro-transactions, bad gameplay and ugly player's faces. This game deserve a 12/20, not a 16 or a 17/20 like i saw in some reviews (i leave in France).
Tiebreak's gameplay still clumsy mais it's a real simulation tennis game : good career mode, beautiful and numerous players, gameplay much closer to simulation...
Speaking on the Career mode:
It’s horribly made a the energy system is a horrible design choice. For example I could start in the ATP Finals in December with 100% energy and by the end of the first match I’d have 70-80% stamina and by the end of the group stage I’d have 30% risking injury (happens when you are 35% and below).
Basically it’s impossible to play ‘real tennis’ mode or ‘topspin’ mode because they are too long and EVEN when I did ‘short set’ I sometimes found myself losing 25% a game. Yes I upped stamina but it really doesn’t matter.
Also the wide service meta is used by the ai to somewhat of an effect as if I’m playing someone like sinner for example, who has a great serve attribute, it’s almost impossible to win that point if his serve is correct (which from hard difficulty up which is what I play on is 60% of the time)
Finally the only takeaway I have from Topspin2k25 is that the ‘Topspin Academy’ is actually very informative and good at teaching playstyles, the devs vision was to definitely make this game tactical but instead the usual 2k money grabbers decided 50-80 pounds wasn’t enough.
Shambles but it’s the only tennis game I’ve played in a hot minute so I guess it’s in the same boat at the situation with EAFC
Give a shot to Tennis Elbow 4 and Full Ace if you're not too bothered by low polygon graphics.
Tennis Elbow has the best career mode on the market, great AI, physics and shot variety, with different gameplay formula than most games
Full Ace is more of a typical gameplay style with time-based shot release and precision aiming, but good physics and shot variety as well. Plus both are challenging and competitive online, if you like that.
@4:42 - So on point. The game lacks mechanical depth and gameplay variety.
@15:25 - "Go get yourself pair of new socks!" LOL
I have been playing more of top spin 4 better game then top spin 5 just more enjoyable games vs the Ai and taken off the bars like shot bar stamina bar etc i agree what you saying about top spin 5 . I have also been playing Tiebreak but I think still too many issues to be a enjoyable game but I think the game is improving all the time with their patches
Ah yes, the unnecessary addition of shot timing bar. Forgot about it for the video!
Topspin 4 had higher skill ceiling thanks to that. I wish that bar was not a thing, at least in online matches.
Still the only playable tennis game in the modern era. All the alternatives are even worse!
Have you tried Full Ace Tennis Sim or Tennis Elbow ? (both modded)
Clothing/gear being locked behind VC and the ridiculous stamina mechanic in career mode pretty much ruined the entire game for me. And the cherry on top of the shit sundae….. my game’s bugged and I can’t even launch the damn thing while connected to the internet. It crashes every single time I try to open it. I submitted a ticket to 2K Support over a week ago and they still haven’t replied. This game is a buggy, rushed cash grab that’s riddled with microtransactions. Don’t bother with it.
That sucks. Have you tried posting on Reddit or reaching out to 2ks community person there? She seems to be quite responsive (forgot the nick,sorry)
They actually released an update on Monday that fixed the issue for me, but at this point I’m so annoyed at the game and 2K that I just don’t have the heart to play it anymore.
I downloaded the demo, and it said I needed to create an account to play. Why would I do that?
I just assumed it's been a game created to fleece people out of money, (and their details, to net them even more money) and I can't be dealing with that scumbaggish shite.
requiring an internet connection to play my career is a huge turnoff
I agree in everything said here, i was at day one of release very dissapointed...
Played 100% Career. For me it was a lot of fun, BUT: In every turnament i played in the last rounds (semi/Final) against Alcaraz, Fritz or Medvedev, sometimes (previously) againgst Tiafoe and Shelton! Berrettini and Murray hardly ever. The first tournament rounds against fictional opponents. That fact was pretty boring! Tournaments with such less real Players! 😬
Support Team and Coaches with tasks are good, trainings and special events too!
Agreed... it gets super boring... serves are unreal, no game tactics besides flat power shot work... slice does NOTHING... topspin same, its nothing but boring... a shame.
Funny i am around 200, at the moment only players that can beat me are players playing precise shot, most boring play , i rather play hitter than precise defensive game as with precise your never go at fault , and waiting opponent to get tired and doing a fault
Still the best tennis game right now..
been on the top 100 both seasons in World Tour.
Cant stand the gameplay anymore...
Also, WHY ARE MY PERFECT TIMED SHOTS AND SERVES HITTING THE NET
Please tell us about single player content review?
Your only focus is multiplayer ?
i would have bought it, but the graphics are so bad. graphics on a tennis game should be top tier as it's single, small location.
lol if that’s your complaint that’s dumb game looks lovely in motion it’s jus crap gameplay over time
Dude...just early access of Tiebreak do better ! for the moment...but there are too much work again, am agree
I just bought it, I don't mind it but ya it's not great, I just wanted to play a tennis game, it does seem better the Tiebreak, but it's nothing more than 7/10
The movement is so shit you tell it to hit a ball to the left, and it hits it down straight
When I Go to play Myplayer, says error.
“This feature is not available When streaming instala is active”
Anyone can help?
This review is spot on. Wide serve and power cheese is so boring.
I agree 100 percent!
1 million percent agree
Tiebreak and other games suck in their graphics.
Topspin is very good in graphics but lacks players and different career modes
the only quality of this game is that they rushed to get it out BEFORE tie break
there is no real career mode and servers, omg, are awful like we're in 2005
To be fair, Tiebreak's online experience is not better than TS5 lol
In Tiebreak 150ms delay makes the ball and players teleport all over the place :/
@@machetegaming the new version is gonna be released August 22nd if I’m not mistaken
I was about to buy this. What would ppl suggest is the best tennis game for pa5? Im leaning towards Tennis World Tour 2.
No no no
Quadruple no. World tour is just janky in movement and the Ai is an unbeatable robot. Try AO 2 before wtour.
@@peterstaklis3712 Thanks. That's really helpful.
Top spin 4 had way better gameplay
Close to the platinum trophy now - and will nevwr play it again after 😂
Top spin 4 game play >> top spin 2k25
it's not on PC
Then i'll wait for under 25 euros because i'm not going to waste money i'm tired of AAA being expensive
also because i love Top Spin series
2K have a big problems with the timing in his games ... We don't need a timing shoot in a fcking a tennis game man like ... why ? The online its literally unplayable , the servers are trash and evereybody spam the same thing over and over agian , it's so fcking BORING AND REPETITIVE and ppl don't care , they still spamming all the time , they don't even care about having fun in the game , they only care about WIN thats it, it's ridiculuos man i can`t understand this new generation of players " competitive pro players " everybody its a competitive sweat now , you can't enjoy online game anymore and having a good time , it's fucking frustrating
Game doesn’t touch the original
He’s basically saying you can play another tennis game that has its own faults and lacks polish in different categories than TopSpin. In short pick your poison.
The sad state of tennis video gaming.
I disagree. As long as a tennis game has the shot variety and physics close to the real thing the graphics aren't as important. A game like Chris Evert tennis on the NEs is totally playable because of the way the shots flow like real tennis even though the graphics are basic. When it comes to tennis games it's the play accuracy that makes a game great. TE4 and tennis elbow have this?
For me it's just a matter of will i guess the serve right ... its so boring
Long rallies with both players at net 🤣
Really bad game, esp online some players are unplayable. Every shot hitting crazy angles which isn’t possible
No Djokovic, no money from me.
Gotta give you props for consistency 😁
Me too did not buy the game cause the Goat of tennis is not even in the game!! What a joke!!
Go download RPCS3 and play top spin 4 until they fix this game.
I disagree with your thought starting at 4.55. Try to play as a pro player vs player online and there are depth in there. Here is the good example of two pros players online: ruclips.net/video/dsM6xP2S3Mw/видео.html . Noticed the game depth in there. The ball placement is very realistic, not just left and right ball thing that you said. Your review is just your point of view and doesnt reflect the real capability of the game if played by good players. The learning curve of Topspin is a bit harder but when learned, its very good.
its a great game man especially compared to the other garbage thats out on console.
I agree all that you said.
Learn the game better. Its the same gameplay like top spin 4. Every video game is like this. It has flaws and you get better by time. Get over it
Great Courts 2 still the best tennis game!
Top Spin feels like a left right left, oh so like tennis then 😂
So like tennis for people who know nothing about tennis, i.e. the only people who could see anything positive about this game
friend, you must play full ace tennis simulator , its the tennis game you are looking for
Thanks for suggestion!
I've been playing Full Ace & Tennis Elbow much more than Topspin. First FA clicked more with me, but then TE got me hooked.
Did you try both or just Full Ace?
@@machetegaming ive played both, but full ace is way more realistic, and the ball control and shot selection is way better than TE. TE is a great game but the game is not as deep when it comes to shot selection as it is in full ace . also the multiplayer community in Full ace is good, there are tournaments and the matches turn out to be very realistic.
Feels too generic. Everyone has the same boring animations. Everyone has the same style of tennis, like real life tennis. Shot animations are hidden behind paywalls and hours of gameplay to unlock higher tiers. I get bored real easy. I play tennis in real life and it doesn’t feel natural. 2K put this game out to entice tennis fans, who loved TS franchise, to spend money.
Need some more trick shots , and diving hits
After the latest patch i can no longer play the world tur ranked with my created player it keeps crashing on the menu where it prompts u your next opponent .
It freezes i got no.other option but too alt f4 and take a forfeit / lost match gg 2k
Fuck this garbage game spend 120 euro on this crap
dead game traded it in before its worth pennies.
This is only tanis game good..other just shit..tiebreak look ps3 arcade ..
Tiebreak is better
Tiebreak Tennis👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌