My favorite story from the comics about scarecrow is how AGGRESSIVELY yellow lanterns try to break scarecrow out of arkham. Batman had to design a lantern proof room just to keep scarecrow in
Context is after the 24 hour copy of every single lanterns ring were scattered across the world. Sinestro's yellow ring made it to scarecrow. Since scarecrow is such a master of fear. His control over Sinestro's ring was incredible. Yellow lanterns literally suicide bomb scarecrows cell because they want him that badly
One of my fav Scarecrow plot moments is when he experiments to see how scared he can get Gotham without using fear gas. He never even mentions it, just alludes to a possibility and lets Gotham fill in the blanks and drive itself crazy in anticipation.
I find it interesting that in this fact fiend episode about the scarecrow a large section of the episode is about how the joker is forced to always be the center antagonist figure. Their statement is proven true by them talking about it.
Batman doesn't have the never kill rule because "integrity", it's because he knows he is not a mentally stable person and absolutely would go on a killing spree after killing just one person.
@@feuerjustcommentsAnd never forget that Batman has said he is afraid that if he starts killing his villains he's worried he'll never stop. He knows that the urge is there and he is afraid that if he ever gives in to it he'll never comeback from it.
The real reason for Batman's "no killing rule" has more to do with character reuse than it does with common sense. In the DC Comics TTRPG, there's a penalty after any combat where you kill someone instead of subduing them or knocking them unconscious. I think it was 1/2 XP, but it's been a while since I played. One of my allies kept rolling his flaw to go berserk in combat, so I had to keep mind controlling his character to stop him before he could kill our enemies. (My character's power was mind control & my character was a giant floating eyeball wearing a detective hat (fedora? trilby?). This other character's was money that he bought gadgets with (which is the most OP power in that game) & he was a raptor.)
Doyalist answer: all the Batman villains have doctorates because it's a quick and cheap way to show how smart they are, making Batman's inevitable victory more impressive. Also, it shows that people aren't driven to crime just because of a lack of education, they're driven by desperation (or insanity). Watsonian answer: (gravel voice) An unjust system rewards the unjust. And kills the righteous in Crime Alley. So I've heard. Alt. answer: I'd say it's because Bruce is the insane one, that all his "villains" are doctors trying to help him but he abstracts them into monstrous criminals - like Joker is just trying the Patch Adams approach but Bruce doesn't get humor so he thinks Joker is the crazy one. Aka "One Flew Over the Bat's Nest" I doubt any writers ever intended that, so it's probably just the Doyalist thing.
My favourite scene in that trilogy was when Crane was blasted with his own gas and saw the monstrous vision of Batman. The first film gets unfairly overshadowed by the second
I’ve come up with a reason why Batman can dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams: Darkseid shoots them out of his eyes, right? Well he was too busy checking out Batman’s sick flips to obliterate him.
Just watched Fern Gully , worth a rewatch. Tim Curry, cheech and chong, christian slater and of course, Robin Williams as batty. Lots of fun facts on that movie
I do like that Batman confirmed in some older comics (DC keeps reseting continuity so dont know if its canon) that he doesnt Kill himself because who knows if he can stop at one, or even guilty people alltogether. But he is more than willing to help others do it, because he trust their judgement.
its notable in the first judge dredd batman crossover comic, judge death teams up with scarecrow coa scarecrow actually has some power over death. and then in dark knight rises, scarescrow is judge and jury...
Karl, you might like to read Batman: Earth One. It's yet another reboot of the batman concept, but the idea that all his villains are just dudes is done in that one.
Scarecrow is an amazing villain, my favorite indeed. His portrayal in the Arkham Knight shows how dangerous he can be, but he is done wrong because since his fear toxin is a great way for character growth, usually he is written BECAUSE of his fear toxin. This is like adding joker in a story just because of his laughter gas, instead of adding him because he can be a great villain. In the comic book Kings of Fear he actually conducts a psychological analysis of Batman, showing him he is a menace to society, resorting to punch the hell out of every problem and the sole reason Gotham is full of superpowered villains that know no better because of his aggressive behavior. Eventually Scarecrow is defeated, but as he and Batman both state in the last pages, the seed of the doubt has been planted and Batman will never be the same again,forever in doubt and fear.
Thats the genius of the plan. Sure, the Italians are tripping balls, but they aren't going to call the cops. "Ayyo Tony! Call da Pope up hea! My pasta's haunted!"
How about scare crow used a fear toxin based sniper rifle where it scares the shot person into an extreme fight or flight reflex...but also it has super cartoon level stimulates that give them almost bane level size and strength. So when you are talking with someone they get sniped and suddenly think that your a threat but also strong enough to 1 hit kill you. That would be fucking scary.
I could be mis remembering this but isn't there a comic that has batman admit to wanting to kill some of his rouges including joker, but doesn't because he knows the he would never stop killing them.
The villain versions where they are victims mental illness are interesting, but only if their crimes are not excuses of mental health. The version I have heard of the Scarecrow is suffering from extreme fear that he tries to understand, and becomes more unstable from drugging himself with his own toxin.
I dont like the integrity arguments about why batman does not kill because there is a more reasonable one, it is literally not his job, he is there to help catch the criminals but it is the city (the people) to deside what to do with them.
I think ultimately the issue is that they addressed it, gave him a reason and then act like the reason is right. If they never addressed it ten no one would care we'd jst go 'oh its a comics thing' but now its 'Batman doesn't understand basic fucking math and morals' or 'if he's so unhinged that killing one person would make him a mass murderer.....maybe he shouldnt be in the business of throwing people off rooftops'
Surprised you never brought up scarecrow developing and using his FearLESS toxin. Guess the wiki didnt have it. It was a great episode with old people swinging around like spiderman with no control because Wooh-Hoo and batman without restraint.
If you were to wait for people to boil a kettle or make pasta, it's going to take quite a bit of time to infect everyone. The whole point was to mess with everyone at the same time to take down the whole of Gotham.
But, the lack of reports of outbreaks of hysteria or increased bouts of violence is the issue. How it should have ended points at this. Add hot showers, community showers, and gym saunas something had to be happening.
I love the slippery slope fallacy, as I have lived it years ago. I was smoking something more enjoyable than a cigarette, and was offered something white and powdery. If you believe the moral panic people, the one is a slippery slope to the other, but I refused as I morally objected to anything harder than what I was already enjoying. Ever since, any time I hear _x leads to y_ I just roll my eyes and move on
I had the idea of a character who is similar to Swampthing just a scarecrow instead of whatever Swampthing is and they are angry at Scarecrow because they wanted to use that name because they are one, but no this jerk took it first.
the batman kills argument makes me really annoyed because DC has to use batman's best villains and they cannot be rehabilitated, like victor zsasz, how many normal killers IRL have escaped prison after being captured? not much. in storyline batman has let the joker die multiple times and yet because DC cannot let their biggest villain die they bring the clown back and to keep him "interesting" they keep upping the severity of his crimes. or whenever a lesser villain is rehabilitated they are inevitably turned back into a villain (killer croc, clayface, mr freeze for example) i guess if you have villains stay in prison or rehabilitated they would run out of good villains but that just exposes the problem with comics, they never have and never will have an end, an ideal batman story would have joker eventually die but not necessarily by batman's hands, have riddler show up like 3 times but he takes a while to get put in jail, have bane show up 2 times, have catwoman show up loads of times with the classic will they wont they dynamic , have mr freeze actually cure his wife and be happy (because levity) have minor villains like killer moth get rehabilitated, have 2 face be a fairly short lived villain with his fractured psyche eventually being fixed in arkham (because arkham in the comics is funded in part by bruce wayne and if it never works as an asylum why does batman bother) have characters like madhatter or man bat only show up once because being recurring characters is not really something that works in the long run, have the court of owls be overarching villains
Omega beams got nothing against a prepared batman. He obviously planned for it, and flipped seconds before Darkseid shot then off! 😂😂😂 (This is sarcasm, don't rage at me)
counter suggestion 'If you kill a killer then the number of killers in the world stays the same' Redhod 'Bruce..... are you asking me to join the Justice League? Fuck yes!' Bruce '...what?' Redhood 'well the HQ is in space....as in not in this world...Hell yeah imma join the Justice League'
My favorite story from the comics about scarecrow is how AGGRESSIVELY yellow lanterns try to break scarecrow out of arkham. Batman had to design a lantern proof room just to keep scarecrow in
Context is after the 24 hour copy of every single lanterns ring were scattered across the world. Sinestro's yellow ring made it to scarecrow. Since scarecrow is such a master of fear. His control over Sinestro's ring was incredible. Yellow lanterns literally suicide bomb scarecrows cell because they want him that badly
The issue with the Batman not killing the Joker is he KEEPS catching him. You gotta blame the gov for not having him executed.
One of my fav Scarecrow plot moments is when he experiments to see how scared he can get Gotham without using fear gas. He never even mentions it, just alludes to a possibility and lets Gotham fill in the blanks and drive itself crazy in anticipation.
Fun Fact: Before the Scarecrow got the fear toxin, he actually did just jump out from behind corners with a gun and shoot people.
"BOO!"
*BANG!
I find it interesting that in this fact fiend episode about the scarecrow a large section of the episode is about how the joker is forced to always be the center antagonist figure. Their statement is proven true by them talking about it.
Batman doesn't have the never kill rule because "integrity", it's because he knows he is not a mentally stable person and absolutely would go on a killing spree after killing just one person.
"All it takes is one bad day..."
Weeeeeeell, let's not forget here that the whole point of The Killing Joke was that the Joker is wrong
@@feuerjustcommentsAnd never forget that Batman has said he is afraid that if he starts killing his villains he's worried he'll never stop. He knows that the urge is there and he is afraid that if he ever gives in to it he'll never comeback from it.
The real reason for Batman's "no killing rule" has more to do with character reuse than it does with common sense.
In the DC Comics TTRPG, there's a penalty after any combat where you kill someone instead of subduing them or knocking them unconscious. I think it was 1/2 XP, but it's been a while since I played. One of my allies kept rolling his flaw to go berserk in combat, so I had to keep mind controlling his character to stop him before he could kill our enemies. (My character's power was mind control & my character was a giant floating eyeball wearing a detective hat (fedora? trilby?). This other character's was money that he bought gadgets with (which is the most OP power in that game) & he was a raptor.)
Doyalist answer: all the Batman villains have doctorates because it's a quick and cheap way to show how smart they are, making Batman's inevitable victory more impressive. Also, it shows that people aren't driven to crime just because of a lack of education, they're driven by desperation (or insanity).
Watsonian answer: (gravel voice) An unjust system rewards the unjust. And kills the righteous in Crime Alley. So I've heard.
Alt. answer: I'd say it's because Bruce is the insane one, that all his "villains" are doctors trying to help him but he abstracts them into monstrous criminals - like Joker is just trying the Patch Adams approach but Bruce doesn't get humor so he thinks Joker is the crazy one.
Aka "One Flew Over the Bat's Nest"
I doubt any writers ever intended that, so it's probably just the Doyalist thing.
I loved the Batman Begins version of Scarecrow.
Thanks for talking about them!
My favourite scene in that trilogy was when Crane was blasted with his own gas and saw the monstrous vision of Batman. The first film gets unfairly overshadowed by the second
Do you think scarecrow has ever used his fear toxic as deodorant or aftershave by accident?
La fear'a fraid'e
No jokes or riddles,
Coming soon to an asylum near you.
In association with lexcorp hair and beauty department
If the "but what if a monster tho" was a guaranteed money maker all the time, Jekyll and Hyde would be more popular...
I’ve come up with a reason why Batman can dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams:
Darkseid shoots them out of his eyes, right? Well he was too busy checking out Batman’s sick flips to obliterate him.
Lucas had me at the end there.
A shotgun named fear toxin.
This made my night shift so much better ❤❤ I have waited so long for scarecrow
I agree. Scarecrows a great character when hes written well. Also that Fear Toxin/Shotgun joke was fantastic 😂😂
I remember being genuinely frightened by some of the Scarecrow scenes in Batman Begins. And I was fucking thirty when that movie came out! 🙂
Just watched Fern Gully , worth a rewatch. Tim Curry, cheech and chong, christian slater and of course, Robin Williams as batty. Lots of fun facts on that movie
I do like that Batman confirmed in some older comics (DC keeps reseting continuity so dont know if its canon) that he doesnt Kill himself because who knows if he can stop at one, or even guilty people alltogether. But he is more than willing to help others do it, because he trust their judgement.
30 minutes of talking about scarecrow and fear toxin, and all i got from the video was plushie Stitch smiling in the background
its notable in the first judge dredd batman crossover comic, judge death teams up with scarecrow coa scarecrow actually has some power over death. and then in dark knight rises, scarescrow is judge and jury...
Karl, you might like to read Batman: Earth One. It's yet another reboot of the batman concept, but the idea that all his villains are just dudes is done in that one.
I just noticed the Wigglet in Lucas's room
"Genetic manipulation, make my monster grow!"
WOOOO SPOOKY MONTH!
Scarecrow is an amazing villain, my favorite indeed. His portrayal in the Arkham Knight shows how dangerous he can be, but he is done wrong because since his fear toxin is a great way for character growth, usually he is written BECAUSE of his fear toxin. This is like adding joker in a story just because of his laughter gas, instead of adding him because he can be a great villain.
In the comic book Kings of Fear he actually conducts a psychological analysis of Batman, showing him he is a menace to society, resorting to punch the hell out of every problem and the sole reason Gotham is full of superpowered villains that know no better because of his aggressive behavior.
Eventually Scarecrow is defeated, but as he and Batman both state in the last pages, the seed of the doubt has been planted and Batman will never be the same again,forever in doubt and fear.
Thats the genius of the plan. Sure, the Italians are tripping balls, but they aren't going to call the cops.
"Ayyo Tony! Call da Pope up hea! My pasta's haunted!"
If you kill ONE murderer, the number of murderers in the world remains the same.
As soon as you kill two, you're making a difference.
How about scare crow used a fear toxin based sniper rifle where it scares the shot person into an extreme fight or flight reflex...but also it has super cartoon level stimulates that give them almost bane level size and strength. So when you are talking with someone they get sniped and suddenly think that your a threat but also strong enough to 1 hit kill you. That would be fucking scary.
I could be mis remembering this but isn't there a comic that has batman admit to wanting to kill some of his rouges including joker, but doesn't because he knows the he would never stop killing them.
The villain versions where they are victims mental illness are interesting, but only if their crimes are not excuses of mental health. The version I have heard of the Scarecrow is suffering from extreme fear that he tries to understand, and becomes more unstable from drugging himself with his own toxin.
I dont like the integrity arguments about why batman does not kill because there is a more reasonable one, it is literally not his job, he is there to help catch the criminals but it is the city (the people) to deside what to do with them.
I think ultimately the issue is that they addressed it, gave him a reason and then act like the reason is right.
If they never addressed it ten no one would care we'd jst go 'oh its a comics thing' but now its 'Batman doesn't understand basic fucking math and morals' or 'if he's so unhinged that killing one person would make him a mass murderer.....maybe he shouldnt be in the business of throwing people off rooftops'
Yep, an acceptable answer is a simple one
Surprised you never brought up scarecrow developing and using his FearLESS toxin. Guess the wiki didnt have it. It was a great episode with old people swinging around like spiderman with no control because Wooh-Hoo and batman without restraint.
Would a Yellow Lantern be able to just make fear toxin with there rings? Pretty sure they can make anything provided they understand it.
Wasn't batman without powers or money done already? Kinda anyway? I thought that was supposed to be the "kick-ass" duo of movies.
And here I thought they were gonna make Batman play the F.E.A.R. game franchise. xD
World Record Speed Run
If you were to wait for people to boil a kettle or make pasta, it's going to take quite a bit of time to infect everyone. The whole point was to mess with everyone at the same time to take down the whole of Gotham.
But, the lack of reports of outbreaks of hysteria or increased bouts of violence is the issue. How it should have ended points at this. Add hot showers, community showers, and gym saunas something had to be happening.
Can we get a running count of every time they bring up that DC can't stop talking about the joker?
I love the slippery slope fallacy, as I have lived it years ago. I was smoking something more enjoyable than a cigarette, and was offered something white and powdery. If you believe the moral panic people, the one is a slippery slope to the other, but I refused as I morally objected to anything harder than what I was already enjoying. Ever since, any time I hear _x leads to y_ I just roll my eyes and move on
I had the idea of a character who is similar to Swampthing just a scarecrow instead of whatever Swampthing is and they are angry at Scarecrow because they wanted to use that name because they are one, but no this jerk took it first.
Batman really needs to disable more villains
the batman kills argument makes me really annoyed because DC has to use batman's best villains and they cannot be rehabilitated, like victor zsasz, how many normal killers IRL have escaped prison after being captured? not much.
in storyline batman has let the joker die multiple times and yet because DC cannot let their biggest villain die they bring the clown back and to keep him "interesting" they keep upping the severity of his crimes.
or whenever a lesser villain is rehabilitated they are inevitably turned back into a villain
(killer croc, clayface, mr freeze for example) i guess if you have villains stay in prison or rehabilitated they would run out of good villains but that just exposes the problem with comics, they never have and never will have an end,
an ideal batman story would have joker eventually die but not necessarily by batman's hands,
have riddler show up like 3 times but he takes a while to get put in jail, have bane show up 2 times, have catwoman show up loads of times with the classic will they wont they dynamic , have mr freeze actually cure his wife and be happy (because levity) have minor villains like killer moth get rehabilitated,
have 2 face be a fairly short lived villain with his fractured psyche eventually being fixed in arkham
(because arkham in the comics is funded in part by bruce wayne and if it never works as an asylum why does batman bother)
have characters like madhatter or man bat only show up once because being recurring characters is not really something that works in the long run,
have the court of owls be overarching villains
Omega beams got nothing against a prepared batman. He obviously planned for it, and flipped seconds before Darkseid shot then off! 😂😂😂
(This is sarcasm, don't rage at me)
Kill a thousand? Scales balanced.
counter suggestion
'If you kill a killer then the number of killers in the world stays the same'
Redhod 'Bruce..... are you asking me to join the Justice League? Fuck yes!'
Bruce '...what?'
Redhood 'well the HQ is in space....as in not in this world...Hell yeah imma join the Justice League'