The Slow DEATH of New Atheism and the Skeptic Community - Trading Atheism for an Anti-SJW GRIFT
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Anti-SJW RUclips content is still extremely popular, with The Quartering and Geeks and Gamers being two of the more prominent channels who covered this stuff. But this style of content actually grew out of the RUclips Skeptic community, primarily New Atheist types who made videos criticising religion and slowly starting shifting their content to targeting feminism and then finally leftist politics in the form of SJWs. These included Chris Ray Gun, Shoe on head, Armoured Skeptic and Sargon of Akkad.
While many of these guys revered New Atheists like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, at a similar time these academics where also going through a similar tradition. They swapped criticism of organised religion and religious Dogma for waging a conflict for conservatives in the Culture War.
In this video I discuss the deaths of both RUclips Skeptics and the New Atheist movement.
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Considering the evemts going on in Myanmar and Thailand, it's kid of weird to hear Sam Harris say that it would be irregular for a Buddhist state to habe a propensity for violence.
Atheism isn't new, and there is no type of "new" atheism. It is always the same.
PLEASE give this a listen;
ruclips.net/video/WXMAgNKYaIM/видео.html
It’s a diatribe by Eli Bosnick, where he express why the article is absolutely terrible - and wrong!
Thomas Smith also did a segment with critique of the article on the podcast Opening Arguments.
If you know anything about who Thomas Smith is, or Eli Bosnick, you also know that they’re NOT anything like the RUclips grifters!
My atheism was a journey. Born into Protestant household. Went to baptist elementary school. Public middle and high school. I went to college in 1993 and moved from believer to agnostic to atheism by 1997. But in America, you still had to keep it quiet, because people were so biased against you. It’s hard to explain. People would decide I had no morals or compassion. When truly, I’m steeped in it.
What new atheists did for me was made it possible for me to be “out” about my atheism. I’m no wallflower. I will stand up for anything I believe in, but I never used to speak up about it unless people were trying to use their religion to impose their will on my life and the lives of others. Like when people use the “soul” argument for abortion. I’m American, so I have a right to separation of church and state. But Anti-abortionists always try to use Christianity as a reason to classify any abortion as murder because they believe there’s a soul at conception. I don’t believe in the concepts of souls. Why should I have to adhere to their beliefs?
I can honestly say that having raised my kids in an atheist household, it’s so wonderful. I was such a scared child. Scared of the devil. Scared of the boogeyman. My kids don’t have that. We have age appropriate critical thinking discussions. The agency it gives a child over themselves is wonderful.
It’s hard when you first move from believer to atheist. It’s easy to miss the warm blanket of religion. It doesn’t take long to realize that it wasn’t a warm blanket. Someone was shoving hot air up my ass. You have to fill that empty hot air ballon with other things. Science, philosophy, bias work, literature, history, etc. and then your mind is very enriched. I’m glad my kids were never indoctrinated.
There are so many new non-believers in my country and I think it’s because there was a push towards skepticism over a decade ago. I’m so happy about that. I am so NOT happy that the religious people have now gotten louder and crazier. They’re willing to kill for their beliefs. The radicalism of the evangelicals in the US, is pretty scary.
I remember Sinead O'Connor called out Pope John Paul for letting boys get molested by priests and helping hide it and her career was ruined
She never deserved that and because of her lots of pedophilia rings in the Catholic Church was exposed and we had many arrests and many male victims got their justice and got their voices out there, even it was sadly in their adulthoods
“I’m an atheist, but as I’ve gotten older I’ve realized the problem is capitalism”
Same here, and it’s really sad seeing a lot of young men blame a lot of their problems on feminism/immigration/SJW stuff etc. when it’s a chaotic economic system that’s actually been disrupting their lives so much.
I hope you are not confusing being non-religious with being an atheist.
@RUclips Sucks Cock wrong how?
Agreed. I would love to see a short and convincing discussion of an alternative to current capitalism that would work: e.g., the medical breakthroughs we have are all enabled by the structures set up by capitalism. What could replace them and give us the same results, or better?
@Dickle Wiley&D the "if you don't like an aspect of this society, it's not the problem, you are, so leave" argument isn't actually an argument; it's an ad hominem. Also please expand on the claim you're making that "lack of purpose" is the problem. That's a new one to me.
Here're two examples of why capitalism is the problem:
(1) Look at the rise of chattel slavery: it was entirely driven by capitalism-- among others, the need for cheap labor to drive the prosperous economy of the American south. Then "scientific" theories of racial superiority were constructed and propagated to support this cruel institution created by capitalism. Don't think that that process isn't still going on: now we see parallels in the way the workforce is exploited for the benefit of those at the top of the capitalist hierarchy. Capitalism will forever be built on exploitation, and justified by rationalizing and normalizing that exploitation. Greed is good, and if you get screwed by the system, it's because you're just not good enough at the game, and that's ok because really you have the same opportunity to be an exploiter.
(2) The way it warps values. Look at the rise of consumerism, explicitly encouraged under the structure of capitalism as a way to accumulate wealth. I think we all agree that consumerism is problematic. But beyond consumerism there is more generally the entire neoliberal outlook (everything is a market), which is justified on the basis of successes of capitalism... but the neoliberal outlook is toxic af.
@@imlookingforthetoweroflear7871
Chattel slavery was not "entirely driven by capitalism". It existed long before capitalism, and in similar horrific form depending on where and when you look.
It was an unfortunate confluence of two concepts that brought out the worst elements of both, though.
I'd personally prefer some tweaks and fundamental changes to capitalism before deciding whether to toss it in the bin.
I'd honestly forgotten that Sargon was an atheist, or part of the skeptic community.
Well was he really or did he just think that there where an audience in that community and throwing shit at religion is the easiest thing in the world.
@@Henrik_Holst At least when you talk about organized religion in the US, where there were/are many schools which don't teach evolution but rather creationism.
In Europe for example the fruits of religion don't hang so low.
@@MrBell-iq3sm Well the religious in Europe are for the most part not as much evangelically and puritan as they are in the US as well, so with a few exceptions (Jehovas) you have no religious people trying to affect politics, remove subjects from school and so on.
As a European it was first in adult life that I realised that there where parts of the world where people actually thought that Evolution was something that you could decide to not believe in.
Because nobody agrees nor wants to be associated with weirdos like him and their views, with people like NoBullshit and those going on meltdowns about sjws destroying society with Starfire Dc comics being the exception I'd guess.
Sargon basically kills everything he joins. The US should drop him over Afghanistan so he can implode the Taliban for them -.-
Thunderfoot's Anita Sarkeesian obsession made The Quartering's Brie Larson fixation look normal.
He should have just asked her out on a date in the first place.
At least thunderfoot can make good engineering videos. The Quartering on the other hand has no talents to speak of
@@Gloomdrake he has plenty of great talents like being a moron harder than anyone
I hated how he would recycle his old content in new video's and he'd replay the clips and reiterated the same point he already made and the only new thing is like some 3 min critique. He still does this too with some of his anti Elon Musk stuff. That's how he made so many video's off her, he just kept recycling over and over again. He didn't just milk her for content he cloned her
@@blargh3428 I wish there were more people with brains going after musk bezos and other elites. It always seems to be the reactionary morons who get most traction tho
It really upset me the direction many of the people who helped lead me out of my religious extremist past
Same.
I know exactly what you mean.
Yup, their bs almost made me a pizzagater. The word skeptic now leaves a bad taste in my mouth, to me it means conspiracist, anti-Muslim, and anti-feminist. Funny how they claim to hate religion but have so many apologetics for Christianity and conservatives while simultaneously shiting on Islam.
I think TheraminTrees is an amazing channel to watch for religion criticism and dismantling religious mechanisms in general. It does not dwelve into politics, focuses on religion and psychology only.
I totally understand and completely agree.
"Evidence isn't God" of akkad
Orignal skeptic everyone
How about you explain the BS you wrote?
Do you dogmatic crazy leftists just upvote blindly?
All 140 of you should be able to explain.
I used to look up to these people in the past. They disappointed me so hard, and proved that logic is not everything, you NEED emotional intelligence and other types of intelligence, too.
Other types of intelligence was invented to make up for real intelligence.
I get you. I think intuition is a type of intelligence that combines experience with feelings, as you can tell something is not right but can’t explain why right away.
You made such a good point here. I just to add that neuroscience has shown that our logic can be critically flawed in many ways
@@Sinha010 emotional intelligence is a real thing and the lack of awareness of it contributes to toxic masculinity and emotional abuse of children.
@@Sinha010 Tell me you think positive mental health is for the weak without telling me. We get it, bro, you’re terrified of feelings and you think it makes you cool.
"You mean the Anti-SJW movement was an Alt-right movement?"
*CLICK*
"Always has been."
@RUclips Sucks Cock great comment Cicero.
Wasnt “alt-right” most of it was just conservatives and moderates lol
@@noblechief4023 gotta clarify something, and it isn't a jab.
How old are you?
I'm trying to recall when it was that everyone conceded on the term "alt-right".
The way I remember it, that was the cover term used by and for white supremacists.
I distinctly remember several arguments about why it was a bad term to adopt. But now I see it everywhere.
Granted, it points to the same people and is largely associated with white supremacists. Still, it's a bit disheartening to see it.
@@rainbowkrampus didn't the term start popping up like 2011-2012?
I feel like there's a good thesis dissertation out of explaining how gamergate generated a massive wave of far right reactionary energy.
Have you read It Came From Something Awful? That talks about gamer culture and the alt right.
Gamers are... just the worst. I feel ashamed using the term about myself anymore, it has SO much baggage.
I would hope that it would start with Elevatorgate, Gamergate's spiritual predecessor.
@Mekehl The feminist being Zoey Quinn, the individual who was falsely accused of the crime of "having unmarried sex"?
From someone who closely watched GG, here's my take: When the gamers made their complaints about the state of Games Journalism, rather than address the issues, said Journalists doubled down and simply attributed their anger to misogyny. I would say that was the moment where many of the Gamers became anti feminist/ anti SJW
Sargon of Styrofoam. I'm an atheist and I started out listening to a lot of atheist online like Armored Skeptic. But after they started going hard anti-sjw I had to cut them loose. Now I mostly listen to AronRa, Vice Rhino and Godless Engineer.
Soygon of aCod
@@shis1988 Sargoon of .02%
AronRa is one of my favorites, and he's also one of the only older channels from that group that I still watch.
Viced rhino is probably the best atheist youtuber right now. 2nd would probably be belief it or not who goes more into the personal aspects of christianity and atheism.
I was young when i started consuming that type of content and i got radicalized to a point, luckly I had enough critical thought to ask myself "wait, why am i listening to these fugly angry dudes on the internet say stuff about women". I started to see the cracks and i just stepped aside. Then joined the left. Never looking back!
It's sad that the community has to be fueled with such bigotry, I'm still a strong atheist.
it's especially sad because back when they were an anti religion movement, one of their main arguments against religion was the bigotry that was fueled by religious dogma
@@rishabhanand4973 I think the reason why so many new wave atheists are so toxic is because it mostly an "all boys club" of jaded nerds, most of which are white guys who grew up in boomer households, so the level of bitterness and jadedness, and simply being out of touch, is through the roof.
Please give this a listen;
ruclips.net/video/WXMAgNKYaIM/видео.html
It’s Eli Bosnick from The Scathing Atheist Podcast!
The article is simply SO wrong!
Unless you really believe that New Atheism was a few individuals and not ALL the people who’s been part of it from the beginning….
@@rishabhanand4973 - The Real Irony is They decided to Point to Historical Bigotry (Not all of Which Really happened) from often Centuries Ago or some Small Group like Westboro Baptist Church to Prove Religion is Bigoted, but Downplayed Tolerant Religious Groups by branding them Moderate as if they are less Religious and still said They were Evil since they Enable The So-Called Fundamentalist's, Whom they Linked to Hatred and Bigotry.
Basically, You are a Fundamentalist if You take The Bible Literally and are Conservative, and if so it means you are just like Westboroi Baptist Church and Hitler and The Inquisition. And if You are a Quaker or The United Churches of Christ or an Anglican it means you aren't a Real Christian but You do great Harm as you give cover for The Fundamentalist's.
God I remember 2012 when the amazing atheist did that debunking video of sandy hook conspiracy theories. That was a really good thing he did at least. Too bad Alex Jones is still around.
Yeah, the Amazing Atheist is nowhere near on the same level as Sargon of Akkad or even Sam Harris. He was a big Bernie guy
Alex Jones is just a clown 🤡
@@Mitchery WE ARE BREKING THE CONDITONING!!!
@@MackeyDeeez what did Sam Harris do?
In case you didn't watch the video:
He promoted the "Bell Curve" racist pseudo science bs that's been totally debunked ages ago.
He reduces the issues of islamist terrorism to a simple "clash of civilizations" narrative. He platforms racists and reactionaries. He opposed BLM.
Thunderfoot became a straight-up creep.
Is that the guy who exposes Tesla?
He is indeed a creep.
@@onalos1271 how so? I'm curious Im a fan of his Elon musk expose videos? But don't know much about his channel what has he done to make him a creep?
can’t have anything good
@@h_3_x_ His stuff for the last few years on technical stuff is good. I don't watch because I'll never support such an asshole with another click. It was the anti-SJW antifeminism culture war hysteria stuff from before that (that he stopped making once he finally realized the damage he did). He was a big part of feeding into the far right.
Anti-sjws and skepticism can’t be put into the same sentence.
@Kenji azure Personally, I don't really notice if a developer decides to put clothes on a formerly-naked character. But I'm certainly going to notice the anti-SJWs when they embark on a year-long crusade bitching about the decision.
You just did.
@@crocodileman94 Touché
You must have been in a coma for the past decade
@@doubtsalmon *can’t put them together logically
Secular-Humanism > New Atheism
I have no idea what this "new atheism" is. Wtf does that even mean?
@@jaceh4942 It was an "ideology" created in the U.S by some white upper-middle class neo-liberal mostly young atheists. As time went on they became even more right wing.
Basically "edgelord-ism" as a political position. You know the kind im talking about, the ones that created the "fedora tipping atheist" stereotype
Dude it was so nice to hear someone articulate all of these things that kind of exist unsaid!
In December 2017, Landis was accused of sexual assault by former co-worker Anna Akana. Following Akana's statement, other industry figures confirmed Landis's reputation by name. Anti-harassment activist Zoe Quinn posted about Landis, alleging that his abuse of women was an "open secret" in Hollywood, and that they'd been withholding the story because "him & his dad are powerful figures." In June 2019, Landis's former girlfriend Whitney Moore posted on Twitter about him, referring to "horrific, inhumane things he did to me", and The Daily Beast published accusations from eight women about emotional and sexual abuse by him, one describing him as "a serial rapist, gaslighter, physical and psychological abuser." In a Twitter post expressing support for Landis's accusers, Chronicle director Josh Trank said that he had banned the writer from the set during filming.
What's your stance on DarkMatter2525, I wonder? He's one of the big old atheist RUclips channel, and has stuck to his atheism, not really falling down the alt right rabbit hole and instead turning genuinely anti-authoritarian if anything?
Dark Matter is awesome. He makes atheist content so good that even religious people can't help but laugh sometimes.
When Darkmatter does delve into politics he’ll fire shots at anyone of either extreme who deserves it.
He’s also never backed down from attacking the Christian right’s hypocrisy and direct damage to America.
A lot of atheist skeptics of the time were aggressively against traditional conservative values because they were based on christian faith.
But come gamergate and all of a sudden the nuclear family and classically conservative values are all of a sudden cool again. Just look at the tradwife meme
I was a fan of these guys back in 2017. Contra, hbomb, etc. pulled me out of it. Now I'm lgbt lol.
I used to follow these guys but lost my interest as a I moved on, but I found someone like Suris, Vaush, and Karnavacle. Although, I can see LGBT people as human beings, even though I'm straight.
Check out blaire white.
This might fry your brain, but there are SANE lgbtq people who rally against insane demands by lgbtq activists.
leftists are so hot they made me gay
@@poweroffriendship2.0 cult of dusty is really good too especially his takes on law enforcement
I fell deep into anti sjw content in 2017 and didn't escape until 2021. I'm now following leftist channels. Reading the science on transgenderism helped me reject transphobic concepts I held. And learning about how systemic issues manifested helped me change my views on systemic racism and sexism. The skeptic community never bothered to learn any of this and assumed they knew better.
Fascinating stuff as always. I didn't know the reactionary tendency was so ingrained right from the beginning.
Another factor I suspect is the performative cruelty aspect of the skeptic sphere. Early on, they were hunting for easy dunks for the performance of intellectual superiority, and let's face it religious extremists can't exactly muster a robust defense of their beliefs. Once that well ran dry, the skeptic community needed an alternative source of content, and liberal feminism/progressivism didn't have a large online community who could meet the challenge.
Easy pickings for oceans of content.
Makes me wonder about an alternative timeline where they might have gone after the fascists instead (who let's face it aren't the cream of the intellectual crop).
A decent chunk of the skeptic/atheist movement who wanted nothing to do with the antifeminism/anti-SJW crap became part of Breadtube... ContraPoints's early vids (which aren't on her channel anymore, but there exist a few mirrors) indicate that she was part of the skeptic community.
Dude wtf are you talking about? The skeptic community has always kept religion at the forefront of the conversation. Most atheists are left leaning people because the scientific method demands rigorous questioning and accepting the data. That's contrary to how the nationalistic theocratic conservatives think. Are the anti sjw's not hand in hand with the conservatives? Is that what you're suggesting?
@@anthonyl9126 Religion stopped being an issue after the atheism+ schism and other things. The few I see who are genuinely the only effective arguers the skeptic community had that could pop off at any level are currently some of the most frustrated people I've ever seen. Matt Dillahunty is great still and he just STILL deals with the same tired questions. The skeptic community has not evolved or changed in 15 years. Ironically. lol.
It really got dull. I couldn't believe when Kent Hovind and other people like that were STILL targets. They're just making free money. I went back and looked at the newer things they had and wow, it's literally all the same. The skeptic community never changes, because the arguments never change. The flavor just changes. So a lot of us who were raised in sheltered right wing white environments but didn't really have any sense of conservatism tended towards some of those types. Not because they were conservative, but because they both 1. spoke their mind no matter what anyone thought!!! and 2. didn't make it about religion, but about something else, something more. That was new to some of us.
There should always be a group to fight against that but, y'know, 4chan was also a thing at the time. That was the second golden era of 4chan. 2009-2011, after the first one in 2006-2007. So much of our internet culture is derived from those times, and so many of these figureheads are from that narrow period.
You are overrating how seriously we took it back then. We were science minded, but we weren't well practiced. We lacked critical information. Like, how many times have you had to tell someone wtf the word theory means? The debate for 15 years has been "we don't want to accept the same definitions". Street Epistemology is the single most advancement of rhetorical ideas I've seen from the skeptic community or anything related to it since then.
No, the anti-sjws were not hand in hand with conservatives yet. Most of us who ended up in those camps for however long were hardly even political, or even knew enough to make a reasonable opinion.
You can pretend your lies to be true, but they never will be.
All open radical theists are low hanging fruit.
A rational theist wouldn't brag about their beliefs.
As a former member of the new atheist community this death of the movement pleases me
I'm actually kind of ambivalent.
On the one hand, I'm glad it faded into irrelevance before it turned even worse, with some former members seeing the light, so to speak.
On the other hand, it's a pity. This movement had great potential for good, to combat pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, religious nuttery and abuse, which is so desperately needed in the age of Q-Anon, anti-vaxxers, climate change denial, transphobic laws, Islamophobia and Evangelical Trumpism.
@@SidheKnight could not agree with you more. The NAM was devastating to the evangelical / creationism movement on RUclips. I believe they could have made a contribution against the post truth movement. The problem which is brushed over in this video was that the sceptical movement (no mention of potholer for some reason in this vid but then he doesn't fit the narrative ) saw left wing politics as being anti free speech (fact or fiction that's what they believed) , again not covered here. Having fought the left for this reason they became trapped when the real threat came. They either had to jump ship or double down against the old enemy as they saw it. TF jumped, Sargon went all in on Conservative Nationalism. Its a very human story and a bit tragic. Not to be able to put down your old emnity to face a common foe
@@shanemeegan1969 True. And sad.
@@SidheKnight - By Pretending Religion is a Universal Evil, it becomes Polemic and irrational. Look at the Example Used in This Video of The Catholic Church Abusing Natives in Residential Schools in Canada. That is not Valid. That was the Fault of The Canadian Government, not The Church. We Blame the Church to Demonise it, to suit Modern Narrative needs. And We Downplay or Ignore Things that fall Outside the Agendas needs. The Catholic Church is said to have supported The transatlantic Slave Trade and to have seen Blacks as inferior to Whites for Example when This is not Really true. They Opposed Slavery and Saw All Races as Equal. They were also Targeted by The KKK, not supporters of it. They also Opposed Hitler and The Nazis, yet are presented as Supporting them.
They Also don't do much Good Opposing evangelical Trumpism since those Who Oppose it don't Understand that Evangelicals do not see Trump as a New Messiah and Not All Who Voted for Him did so by Ignoring His Moral Failings but simply because he was a Better Choice in their Viewed than Hilary Clinton.
Even today The Sceptic Community pushes a Myth that Christianity is Hamrful to The Environment, and is Anti[-Climate Change, when Most Churhces, Including Conservative Churches, Including Evangelical Conservative Churches, actually have Environmental Drives, called usually Creation Care, to Curb it.
Even if The Conservative Evangelicals Christians didn't, The Sceptic Community Acts as if All Christians Deny Climate Change or do Nothing about it. I've seen Anglicans Told this. I've seen Presbyterian CHurch USA Members Told this. I've seen United Churches of Christ Members Told This. And They All Openly support Environmental protection.
It is absurd.
There's newer atheist/skeptic channels now focused on social justice issues and humanism. The new atheism of the last 15 years is dying fast. Especially since most gen z reject the far right edge lords who are anti social justice and pro trump.
I currently believe that skepticism should be something one strives to be rather than something one identifies as. It's better to show skepticism than to proclaim it.
This.
It's also why I don't trust people who call themselves "smart".
The Dunning-Kruger effect
Sadly many people learn this too late.
Man I wish the atheist community could return back to it's roots of exposing and dismantling problematic/false religious ideologies again. A few good ones are still around (Suris, Jimmy Snow, and Telltale are all decent), but so many fell down the Anti-SJW rabbit hole and some are the textbook definition of saying racist stuff without actually saying racist stuff.
The atheist community is now battling the new religion of Intersectionalism. It is a natural reaction.
That content is that popular anymore though. Back in 2011 when creationist youtubers were big was when the skeptic community was at its peak but since then theres nothing left to talk about
I think you won't see it anymore because a lot of these people realize their grift has attracted a conservative audience and they don't want to offend that audience anymore and so avoid talking about atheism as to appease them. It's been forever since we've had big debates or discussions about religion now. Old Sam Harris would have ripped Jordan Peterson on his religious views...new Sam Harris just mumbles quietly that he respectfully disagrees.
Telltale flirted with anti sjw content. I liked his stuff but drifted away when I thought he was going down that route. I've become a regular viewer of his again. He's shown there's still plenty of things to say about fundamentalist religion without the need to punch down.
There’s a lot of people still around.
Rebecca Watson, PZ Myers, Seth Andrews, Hemant Mehta, the Puzzle in a Thunderstorm crew, (The Scathing Atheist, God Awful Movies, The Scepticrats etc..), Tom and Cecil from Cognitive Dissonance…
Potholer54 also did a lot of debunking creationism videos, but is now more focussed on Climate Change and COVID, and just yesterday I got a notification from
TheLivingDinosaur, and up popped a video about him returning.
Dusty Smith is still around as well.
Try and give this a listen;
ruclips.net/video/WXMAgNKYaIM/видео.html
It’s Eli Bosnick doing a diatribe on The Scathing Atheist about why the article is bollocks!
The smugness of New Atheists gives me the vibes that they view religious folk as “inferior rabble”
A lot of them ended up becoming Christians again after fully embracing reactionary politics
I wouldn’t say religious people are inferior, but they usually aren’t as good as critical thinking when it comes to controversial or serious intellectual issues. If you actually believe that shit, I don’t trust your opinion on most things.
@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll OP wasn't talking about you, they were talking about people who think religious people are inferior
@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll The New Atheists certainly proved that non-believers are equally capable of irrational stupidity.
@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll
As an atheist myself, I renounce my vapid New Atheism days. New Atheists who believe the Middle East is in political turmoil solely due to Islam are totally the pinnacle of critical thinking. The problem I have with many atheists is they fail to realize that they are no less idealist than religious folk. I would have more respect for the “atheist movement” if its proponents adopted some materialist analysis into their politics
AmazingAtheist is pretty based now. He doesn't deserve to be depicted alongside of Sam Harris
Good to see him grow smarter and better over all. He used to be soo much worse. Still needs to do some growing up though.
Yes he ought be removed from that image and replaced with Richard Dawkins or someone more appropriate if possible
@@omniusmaximusgluteuslxix4857 TJ is largely the same, he just isn't doing Anti-SJW content because it's no longer relevant, he's just pandering to Bredtube now - TJ Kirk is a grifter, nothing more, nothing less.
@@omniusmaximusgluteuslxix4857 Dawkins is aproviate now.
@@marocat4749 I couldn't agree more! To clarify I should've put the word even between the words someone and more.
I watched nearly all of them back in 2016 and when the shift happened from "man look at this crazy creationists" to "man look at this crazy femenists" i was on board at first because in the beginning they would make fun of th those cringy buzzfeed articles about manspreading and shit. When it got to more spicy stuff like the migrant stuff etc. i watched them less and less. I continued to watch people like the quarter pounder because i was more intrested in entertainment and the big thing that kept me watching many (not all) of these videos was their take "we don't care about identity stuff we just want good stories" and i (foolishly) believed them because i truly don't care what race or sexuality the protagonist of a novel or game is but then when there were good examples of let's say LGBTQ protagonists and people like the quivering still were harshyl against it because of some "agenda" shit. That was when i finally saw through their grift. Also Destiny, Contra Points later Vaush helped too.
Vaush is a 🤡 who virtue signals about being a "homosexual" one day and a "bisexual" another day, while according to online articles I read has/had a girlfriend. His mindless sheep suck it up and clap for him because he's so "woke". 😂
That's what happens when your ideology is based on egotism instead of altruism.
What ideology? Not believing in God(s)?
Because that's all atheism is. It has nothing to fo with egotism.
@@SidheKnight Any ideology. I'm an atheist. I meant that the point of everything that some people believe is to convince themselves that they're better than other people rather than to try to understand the world in order to make it a better place. Like atheists who only care about believing that they're intellectually superior to other people or religious people who believe that they don't have to take any responsibility for their own opinions or actions because simply being a member of their religion makes them morally superior to other people.
@@MW-xp3hx Agreed.
I misread your comment and understood you meant that atheism is inherently egotistic. My bad.
New Atheism has been dead since like 2012. We should build a new one based on the philosophy and work of Stephen Jay Gould.
We should call it Progressive Atheism
It'd be great. Had the Skeptic Community/anti-SJW community didn't take a hard right turn and began pushing Race Realism. While the general group had since dissolved after 2018, what remnants still are kicking about still push Alt-Right bullshit and shun scientific principles altogether. Just look at JF fans who despise peer review.
The jimmy snow, suris, telltale, shannon q, ... i think do.
2 things that were always funny to me abt the "New Atheists": 1) in all of their Islamophobia, they never brought up how we support & sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, the biggest promulgator of wahhabism (the Islamic analog of Evangelicalism in USA); and 2) as someone raised atheist, the New Atheists in their fervor sounded exactly like born-again Christians (half my mom's fam). The dismissive attitude that Im right & everyone else is wrong, the mocking of ppl who believe differently, the assuredness that only you know the truth...SAME.
To think most of us used to be fans of these guys just a couple years ago. Go's to show how people can change for the better.
*change for the worse.
Especially that you're a minority.
Let's check the facts - most skeptic youtubers retained their audience - except those who went woke.
Most boys maybe but being a girl on the internet was not fun and could be scary if you dared to voice an opinion :/
I've been waiting for this vid. Been talking to my friends about this topic for a long time. There are some very good atheist channels out there now, like Belief it or Not, Theremin Trees, Prophet of Zod, Hannah and Jake, Telltale, and Jimmy Snow (formerly Mr. Atheist) but all the old school skeptic groups became full on reactionary to the point of absurdity.
Agreed. Gamergate did something people's brains holy crap
Would you put Hannah and Jake on the list with Jimmy Snow?
@@XianHaos I think Hannah and Jake are fine, prolly really good, just never really clicked for me.
Theramin Trees is a great atheist channel too.
Some went from atheist to straight up trad-catholic
Never cottoned to that new atheism...
*spits
Nuthin' wrong with the old atheism...
Shout out to Cult of Dusty. My atheist guru went down the anti-sjw path and came back pretty quick. Dusty represents the atheist left,, and may be the first youtuber to do it.
I haven't known about him for long, and I think that's kind of strange. Now that I know his story, it's weird that he seems to exist in his own space outside the broader left-wing youtube. He deserves more recognition.
@@esbenm6544 true!
It's funny because I use to watch him all the time and dipped when he was sympathizing and considering himself alt-right when he didn't know wtf he was talking about lol
I'd be more impressed if he didn't fall down the anti- s.j.w. rabbit hole. NOT me the moment i saw the New athiests inviting far-right people on thier show's NOT to challange or debate them but to agree with them. I was out. Instant Red flag for me. That was like late 2015 or 2016...
YES. He was my first exposure to atheism and solidified my decision to reject religion while also being inclusive and caring to others. I haven't watched him for years but I'm glad to hear that he's still the same Dusty I knew and love.
The reason I'm glad Hitch is gone, is because, before passing and as of God is not Great, he admitted he was wrong on his support for the Iraq War and other terrible things he advocated for (can't being them up from memory).
He left on a positive note for the most part, instead of descending into a pit of darkness.
Edit: I have a degree of respect for thunderf00t because he admitted he was in the wrong, openly said it and has been working to do right for himself. He also has been fighting vaporware among that.
Exactly (regarding TF). There are a handful of “skeptosphere” figures who maintained their liberal/progressive principles and have called out their past work (or missteps) and their former “cohorts” for their right wing bs, and given the loss of almost all of their former popularity, I do commend them for that.
When did he say he thought he was wrong to support the Iraq war? I never saw that and even saw him defend his support for it in his apartment not long before his death. I mean, If be glad to hear him actually retract his support for it.
@@FlyingOverTr0ut God is not Great.
@@shis1988 what? The last chapter of god is not great was about how he was very supportive of both the iraq war and prisoner torture through waterboarding?
What did TF admit to? Did he apologise to Anita? Because by God did he misrepresent her and I'm ashamed I listened to him because you just take for granted that educated, liberal people are not going to make manipulative propaganda. He made manipulative propaganda. I know he told Sargon to fuck off and was anti-Brexit but I went back to him in the past year and I still detected...a tone with women.
It's funny that Thunderf00t's video on how he left the "Skeptic community(tm)" was put into this with reference to the Candid situation because it was Candid that was the final straw for me. Before that, I had started to notice a trend in some of the not so prominent Anti-SJW podcasts in how they would respond to videos. An example would be the Honebadger Podcast where they would pause ever 7 seconds, respond to the 7 seconds of footage and then complain later that they don't understand what the person was talking about.
Brexit happened, and I saw how people like Sargon were willing to abandonee the narrative of being both skeptical, rational and for ethics when the lies of the Brexit campaign were exposed, literally, the day Brexit was voted on. The fact that both Boris Jonson and Nigel Farage both said that the promises made during their campaign such as the money they stated would go into the NHS were complete lies was appalling. Yet protesting against is was just whining and, in Carls words, the protesters should just "shut up" because this is democracy.
Candid was the final straw because it really was just a cumulation of every problem in the skeptic community. The fact that a bunch of skeptic RUclipsrs decided to jump onto the money-train without second thought was insane. Candid had a machine learning AI designed to target people it deemed 'Toxic.' When Harmful Opinions picked up on it, the fact that they went into defense mode was crazy. The livestream where Carl was literally trying to get Harmful Opinions to drop it showed how insincere the community was. It also didn't help at the time that Bearing got his channel taken down because of copyright issues surrounding his avatar and every Skeptic RUclipsr started to run the narrative that 'RUclips is going to decimate our channels guys! Pleases give me money on Patreon!"
Also, the Mass Effect: Andromeda face controversy was a complete shitshow, showing a distinct lack of understanding of the technical aspects of making games. Even though certain face scanning helmets have a defect where they will warp faces due to having low resolution cameras, and it requires someone with technical knowhow to fix, that can't be the problem. It has to be the fact that the Ess Jay Doubble-ews ruind female Ryders face because... feminism... or something... After this the game did go on to make a heap more money, becoming successful on digital platforms. But you won't hear Anti-SJW's admit that! It went woke, went broke! Don't question it.
After finally leaving the Anti-SJW community (and deleting my old account because it was easier than just subbing from a bunch of different channels) it felt great. One of the first videos I saw was on Ghostbusters 2016 where the person talking about it pretty much said 'it suck's not because of feminism, but because of a cynical capitalism using feminism as a marketing tool.' I slipped back into the Anti-SJW community with EFAP, but over time I just got bored of it. Like, who needs a podcast that lasts 10 hours to tell you that someone's analysis of a game or film sucks? But there was a great moment in their 100'th episode celebration where in Sterling's video, they say something along the lines of 'what do the critics care about what I have to say. They will just call me a Communist and attack that.' to which Rags misinterprets what Starling has said, calls him a Communist and goes of on a tirade about how Communism is bad.
So yeah, a little rambley but I guess Kavernacle asked for it.
Good ramblings, I like.
You were still watching EFAP ten months ago?
@@medes5597 On and off.
@@robertbarrass9176 christ.
Thank you for the ramble, It was a pleasant read!
I’ve been watching thunderfoot’s science videos for a while now and I was shocked to find out he was aligned with Karl in the past but after hearing him talk about leaving that community it makes sense in my head.
may have different political views from me but from what iv seen (In his new science based vids.) he believes in what he says, he backs up his work with facts and sources and is pro-science!
Compared to Karl who reads plagiarised ‘Daily Stomper’ articles on info.wars and out-of-context paragraphs from the daily mail. I bet Karl would get baptised now if he lived in America lol...
Neocons and the new atheist movement definitely laid the foundations for alt-right/far right youtubers.
It sucks because there’s a lot of truth to that.
You can’t have the “Ben Shapiro destroys SJW with facts and logic” if you didn’t have the “Atheist destroys priest on religion”
Didn’t make it to where you might have mentioned him, but TJ Kirk has changed so much after his DP days. DFF even does some pretty based episodes and I’m fucking proud of how far TJ, Paul, and Scotty have come. It actually gives me good chills , like seeing a wannabe anti-hero become an actual hero. Still, they get dumb-edgy sometimes but I think they are a net positive.
They've only gotten better since this post, too. They're vocal antifascists and, as a trans person, it's great to see a couple of bearded cis guys (tho TJ has said that he might be non-binary but doesn't care enough to change his name/pronouns) defending us.
Thankfully Thunderfoot moved to attack billionaire scammers. I think this is a more reasonable target.
Nah he still goes at SJWs sometimes if he gets the chance.
I had to unsub because he wouldn't stop going on about some dumb bullshit. He did some really good pro-mask stuff at the beginning of the pandemic and then seemed to give up on it probably because it was demonetized.
Yeah , the biggest issue though is that Atheist we looked up too already had horrible political baggage to begin with. The problem with the Atheist community is that we failed to look at each other and understand we didn't have the same politics. We where united against religious extremism but where we really that critical of our politics? Sharmer for example was a goddamn Randian yet no one knew this?
Samuel Huntington's " Clash of Civilizations " plays a massive role in this bullshit has well. Not gonna lie alot of New Atheism was peak Liberalism when you break down that ideology.
"New Atheism was peak Liberalism when you break down that ideology"
i think that's definitely true, but I didn't consider myself a socialist back then, but I still criticized them for similar reasons as a socialist would. I think there's a difference between "progressive" liberals (which I was, back then) and these mere liberals that refused to acknowledge the impact of economics and history on religion, and think religion is the only force that shapes society.
@@alex_roivas333 Very true indeed
I started watching atheist/skeptic content on RUclips in around 2009/2010. It was pretty big on the platform at the time. At the time I didn't really understand feminism to be honest, but I had always considered myself left-wing, from a really young age, despite not having a strong foundation for my beliefs. Ever since I was a kid being on the left just seemed like common sense. 9/11 was a bit of a political awakening for me and witnessing the opposition and worldwide protest to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan cemented my beliefs as anti-conservative/anti-nationalist. I always held on to the belief that I was strongly opposed to right-wing/conservatism which I think ended up saving me in the long term.
I watched a lot of videos criticizing feminism for a few months in around 2011/2012, but as soon as I realized that I was rubbing shoulders with right-wingers and that the people I was watching were shifting away from criticizing conservatism and the right-wing, and focusing on the left, I snapped out of it and took a step back. I always had the idea in the back of my mind that the right were the "real enemy" but I had a moment of realization that these people weren't "on my side" anymore. That's when I got out. I just assumed that being anti-conservative went hand in hand with being against religion as an institution. Luckily I was able to avoid the pipeline completely very early on but it always fascinated me (and terrified me) to see a slow, decade-long brainwashing of disillusioned liberals/leftists unfold on this platform.
I am really glad that I fell out of that community after elevator gate.
I was already getting frustrated with the amount of content that was focused on people instead of ideas, and then the elevator gate situation happened and I couldn't understand how these supposedly rational people couldn't see why approaching someone in an elevator litterally right after they had finished a talk about not doing that exact thing, would be seen as a bad thing. It was just so obvious that it was a bad idea to do that to me, and I couldn't take all the bad takes. Then Gamergate happened and I was going, okay so some of these critics of games don't really make sense, but why are you all just directing hate at these women instead of attacking the ideas themselves if the ideas are the bad part?
And then I left, and kept going further left.
Let's not forget Sam Harris is the one who "christened" Dave Rubin's current show and persona.
Before gamergate, in 2012, there was a big to-do in the online atheist community when allegations of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment against prominent skeptic Michael Shermer got a lot more public profile. It caused quite the rift, and I think it primed a lot of "skeptics" to be antagonistic toward feminism.
I had considered myself part of the atheist community, hung around Richard Dawkins' forum, but I was never a convert. My parents are atheists, and not believing in God was never a big deal for me. I had read The God Delusion, and I remember thinking that it arrived at correct conclusions through shoddy arguments, and that Dawkins was a bit of a dick. I didn't feel any particular sense of loyalty to the movement, so when the vast majority of the community took sides with Shermer and against feminism, it caught me off guard.
So I left the online atheist community, and mostly missed the whole gamergate debacle. Can't say I'm sad about that.
Edit: the Shermer debacle started, I think, as part of elevatorgate. After Rebecca Watson's video, a lot more women came forward about their interactions with Shermer.
These are the reactionary skeptics. Here’s some non reactionary new atheists:
Genetically modified skeptic
Kyle kullinski
Cosmic skeptic
Rationality rules
"Reactionary" - ok, marksist
@@DjMaxi005 marksist 😍
Suris is pretty good sometimes too
@@DjMaxi005 If not being a bigot is the same as being a Marxist, maybe it's time for the revolution comrade
@@DjMaxi005 come to our side comrade we have pelmeni
You should had mention Cult of Dusty and how all those mucks made a pharia of him when he called out their bs.
I still watch and support Dusty. He's a good man despite some of his earlier reactionary takes.
I'm glad Dusty presents himself in a pro-left kind of way and delivers said message, but according to TJ (the amazing atheist) and PaulsEgo who've met him in person many times, he's actually a reactionary in real life and his content is pretty much a grift. Still preferable to the other way around from a consequentialist standpoint. I gave him a chance but had to unsub from him again when he tried to create drama with Vaush and Shoe, he's not in place to gatekeep anyone from the Left, especially if the rumors of him being a grifter are true.
@@AngryShooter he was one. unlike tj, dusty changed when it wasn't cool, tj admitted that he couldn't run the rw grift anymore because fash made it too bad for pr..
so.. tj is the last guy who should point at others, hes on the thinnest ice
@@a_lethe_ion TJ has admitted to stick to the anti-SJW stuff for a bit longer than the point he had outgrown it for the views, he was part of the problem but he was never a fash nor made fascist content, and unlike Dusty he was never a bigot.
@@AngryShooter honestly so many people are against shoe. She has said some stupid stuff especially on Twitter that's why people aren't accepting her on the left. She is still a reactionary of some sort. In the vaush's comments many people are skeptical about shoe...so i don't think dusty did something extremely wrong but it also depends on what he said and how he presented his ideas about the whole situation. But still dusty is kinda ok.
Anti- Anti-SJW. I'm totally on board.
No
@@15jewjew YES
I used to follow this movement somewhat (despite not being an atheist myself), because I liked their rational style of arguing. However, over time as they shifted their attention more and more towards the "culture war", I started to dislike that content. I couldn't put a name to it at the time, it just felt bad. Then one day I realized that I was listening to a guy spew things that sounded suspiciously like Nazi talking points, and from then on it was like a switch had been flipped and I couldn't unsee it. That's also when I realized that a lot of them had become grifters who abandoned facts and logic a long time ago.
While I'm glad I never fell down that rabbit hole too deeply, I do feel silly for having fallen for it at all. It's been years now, and I still find myself frequently re-examining previously held beliefs, trying to determine if it's something I actually believe or if it's some holdover from that time.
They were always like this, they just hid it more back in the day, Hitchens goes pretty mask off in his debate with Parenti
I can't believe people actually think he's smart. He has a slightly above average vocabulary and a posh accent, sure, but the actual content of what he says is just complete and utter drivel every single time
Yeah they didn’t even hide it well. I was in a lot of online atheist groups and the bigotry was sadly a constant presence.
@@thatyoutubechannel9953 Parenti absolutely destroyed Hitchens, thats why these kinda of ppl like the new atheists and the skeptics only debate college kids, when they debate someone actually intelligent like Parenti, they dont know what to say, because they dont know how to debate with actual intellectuals
@@sapphicana6637 Parenti was incredible, such a great speaker and a real thinker
@@thatyoutubechannel9953 hes still alive. why are u talking about him like hes not?
What the New Atheists and the Skeptic movements never pointed out (or deliberately ignored) was that the people who carried out 9/11 and 7/7 and the people they were referring to as Islam, or if they were being charitable radical Islam, were the Islamic far-right.
They were describe Islam in the exact same terms that the leaders of Da'esh would describe Islam.
And it even went as far as left-wing RUclipsrs of the time, Kevin Logan in particular, who along with Kristi Winters welcomed The Skeptic Feminist into their community, who again, would criticise Islam in the exact same way that the New Atheists would do.
Knowing this, it really shouldn't be a surprise that they'd adopt far-right talking points, a lot of people who I thought of as left-wing ended up parroting the same far-right talking points. They just stopped when it extended beyond Muslims to other groups.
The whole Elevatorgate thing sent me down the opposite pipeline towards feminism, actually.
I was a big fan of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris back in the day, but I was also a big fan of the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, the podcast that Rebecca Watson was on, so when the whole Elevatorgate thing happened and there was this big rift in the atheist/skeptic community, I realized I had to take a side. After hearing both sides it was obvious Rebecca was in the right and Richard was being a massive dick, and the whole thing forced me to think about feminism and what women experience in a way that I hadn't really thought about in depth before. I took it upon myself to actively listen to what feminists are saying and educate myself about gender issues, a process that I continue to this day.
I used to be a Dawkins fans until the ElevatorGate thing... And the fun thing was, the militant atheism being pushed by Dawkins and Harris, ended up being the reason why I stopped saying, I was an atheist online because I could not identify with the atheist online community, while I have lived an entire life as one, and I have no problems saying in real life I am one... Go figure!
Leaving one cult to enter another. Not a smart move, if you ask me. I'm myself anti-feminist and anti-atheist. I despise both as heads of the same Hydra.
I've been a leftist since ~1996. And I was big into New Atheism circa ~2007/2008. Over the next few years, I started seeing the toxicity and intellectual dishonesty of the movement and drifted away from it. But still generally considered them to be allies on the right side of things. Boy did that all change quickly with gamergate ~2014. It always was a hateful, and not particularly intellectually rigorous movement. It just took me a while to figure that out.
You highlighted by college years pretty accurately with the new atheism and skeptics community on RUclips.
More like the septic community
Ha got 'em
If Sam Harris' idea of Western values doesn't include freedom from racial and religious discrimination, then I guess I'm against Western values. Call things what they are instead of hiding behind labels.
I mean, I think he would include those in western values.
I actually did fall into that rabbit hole. I used to be a very big Hitchens fan. I was pretty much a liberal as a young teen just discovering atheism. I watched some of those anti-sjw/anti-feminist vids. My brother had shown them to me (I had to cut off contact with him eventually). Then I stumbled across Jordan Peterson as an 18 year old. I really came close to getting pulled into that alt-right bigotry. I ended up realizing they didn't really care about the arguments, they were there to be bigots.
I'm mixed and not straight, so I realized they basically hate people like me. So I left that and was a right-wing libertarian for awhile. The more I learned about history in college, especially US history, the more I realized capitalism was inherently bad. The sociological/anthropological studies I had read, while not even remotely leftist, showed me that most right-wing talking points were factually incorrect.
My longest phase was as a left-leaning enlightened centrist. The bigotry of Donald Trump and the defense of it from supposed "centrists" online made me realize centrists were just conservatives that were too cowardly to admit it. I started to stumble across some breadtube videos, then just ultimately decided that I had to leave "centrism" behind.
I feel conflicted about Hitchens, even now knowing all the horrible things he's said, as he helped me to be confident as a young atheist, living in a very religious and conservative part of the US. Sometimes I like to pretend the post 911 version of him doesn't exist, only the lefty one from when he was much younger. But even then, he was still very problematic.
9/11 certainly broke Hitchens' brain. Hell, it broke a lot of people's brains. I heard that in the end, apparently, he regretted supporting the Iraq war, but I can't find any sources that he actually said he regretted it.
@@Saturnia2014 he definitely said it was botched. He couldn't stand George Bush
Nobody is perfect. You take what is good and leave what isn't. I love hitchens, and sometimes I love to re-watch some of his debates. But I don't put him in a pedestal. He was just a man afterall.
ShoeOnHead got better. She still has a lot of bad takes though
I actually credit people like Shoe and Chris Ray Gun for getting me out of the rabbit hole tbh. Especially with the pro-Bernie stuff and talks with Vaush etc... before getting me on to further left creators. I'll still happily watch both of them to this day and think they're relatively positive actors nowadays
Shoes a few years from being a nazbol imo
Shoe on head is now hared appearently by that community, because she is, more left leaning now, not thst she isnt, she is netter
@@spacepolicemanofspace6073 truee
@@marocat4749 She's also getting a lot more creeps deciding it's okay to make sexual comments about her because they disagree with her and it'll 'trigger the lib.' It's pretty sickening to be honest.
This was like watching a review of show I thought was cool 7 year ago, but now can't stand or I tear about the plot of it.
It's taken so long to feel comfortable and confident in being progressive, a leftist, and a feminist. I wish I could get back the lost time of me brooding over a declining capitalist state that can't even stand today.
same! i was all in tumblrinaction etc, and i’m glad i saw the light so to speak.
shame we spent time there, but i don’t see it was a waste, everyone takes different trajectories and different timelines, and hopefully we learned something different that can also guide our future actions; like i love knowing that is possible to exit those spaces, and i would like to learn one day how to get people out.
@@dvidsilva Truu!
And I think the key lies with interacting with people. Give them a space and a sense of belonging. I'm not really good at that, to tell you the truth. I don't go around being like "Debate me, cowards" to every Right Winger, but I think I pushback a little too hard.
Some people good at talking with people through their problems, some aren't. I might be factoring in some small way to people's de-Alt-Right-radicalization by pointing out what's wrong. Though, it's someone else doing the work, even the person leaving the toxic spaces. Probably more so them.
😘♀️❤🏳️🌈
I completely get what you mean. That it gave me satisfaction at that time now only fills me with disgust.
I used to watch videos by tl:dr, but became bored by how repetitive his content was (video after video of dunking on single cases of women being cringe) and bothered by his lack of self-criticism of himself and his side, and also uncomfortable with the feelings of smugness those videos made me feel.
Now I look out for those 3 things in myself and the content I consume, so I don’t repeat the same mistake.
But on the other hand now we know what it’s like to be an anti-SJW and why it’s so attractive. And I think those feelings can be used to emphasize with/understand and communicate with the people who still hold those beliefs.
I remember this time as horrible horrible horrible. This whole "facts don't care about your feelings" era, where the rudest fuckers on earth were lecturing others on civility (tone policing) while literally enciting violence against already marginalized groups. I always saw them as neo-con or far-right, and I lost a lot of male friends to this bs. 😩
It sort of feels like the atheist movement split into two factions: those who opposed organised religion as a monolithic economic power, and those who found it cathartic to see people they considered morally or intellectually inferior being 'calmly eviscerated' (i.e those who were in it for the witch hunt).
And as much as I liked him, I can't help but think Christopher Hitchens is partly responsible for the rise in the latter. He at least had the wit and intellect to (somewhat) warrant his smug attitude, but so many in the skeptic community lack both qualities and just imitate/idolate the concept of 'not giving a shit' what people think of them - whether the facts are on their side or not.
I'm glad that TJ has grown from this.
It does seem like he is doing better (from that angle).
Admittedly I don’t follow him much anymore because he went off the deep end - badly
I think he finally came to grips with how hurt he actually got when his n00ds got leaked.
Has he stopped mocking oppressed communities for calling out oppressive and systemic injustices? I'm hoping so. Like the other guy I stopped following him over that shit
@@MrInuhanyou123 He's actually based as fuck and while he is still edgy and can be a dick he's a civil rights advocate and goes hard on oppressive systems. Yeah he fucks up here and there and still likes Manson but he's more willing to admit his faults and is a genuinely better person now than he was just a couple of years ago.
@@fuzzybuzzy3159 well I'm glad he's hopefully gone back to his pre 2014 days
This is interesting. I haven't followed everybody in the New Atheism/Skeptic community because frankly many of them have always been trash. But this video brings to my mind Stephan Molyneaux. I believe he started as a New Atheist and was like the first to jump into Anti-feminism. Now he's all about Race science, anti-SJW, and it's an eerily prescient path that it seems others are now taking.
I found him back in 07 when he was pushing anarcho capitalism. That was a dark road to go down.
Even back during the Bush years when the New Atheists were more or less on the nominal left, there was a perceptible similarity in the condescending and confrontational nature of both the Christian Right and much of the New Atheist left.
It was almost as if both groups consisted of the exact same kinds of people, who just happened to find a different cause through which to channel their own sense of superiority.
Right on man. I’m just jealous that you figured out the big stuff so much sooner than me
When this was all the rage I knew a few Muslims IRL, and the whole bigotry against Muslims completely soured me on the New Atheist community
Are these channels considered new-atheist? What do we mean by new-atheist?
CosmicSkeptic
GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic
Rationality Rules
Holy Koolaid
Telltale Atheist
Viced Rhino
Darkmatter
Jimmy Snow (Mr. Atheist)
Suris
Friendly Atheist
Godless Cranium
Dusty Smith
Hahaha that's my question. I'm a lifelong atheist wondering what the hell "new atheism" is. As far as I know, the definition of "atheism" hasn't changed. So it seems to me that what has changed is this weird, cultists vibe around some atheists online.
New new humanist secularism?! I wouls aldo add hannah and jake, through they alre more political over all kind of stuff , and shannon q, and the endless related
Multiple of the channels you mentioned were explicity created to try to rescue youtube atheism from the collapse of new-atheism (into the reactionary content grift) around the time of gamergate. Telltale in particular has several videos on his channel where he talks about this, and his initial desire to fight back against people like Thunderf00t, sargon, etc.
The fall of New Atheism is proof that just because you don’t believe in God doesn’t make you any less of an assh*le extremist. In the end it doesn’t matter if you’re religious, atheist, or even agnostic, any philosophy and belief can have both a good and extreme example.
I find this curious. You think the atheists went Anti-SJW, but many went illiberal "woke". I think this actually a case of atheism coming out of the closet successfully, winning that fight, and now fracturing into other interests.
I completely agree.
It seems that many have forgotten that atheism is a religious, not political, issue. Once theism had been debunked, the debunkers turned to other topics, including political issues.
That recent PRRI survey that came out illustrating the collapse of evangelical Christianity over the last fifteen years had a less splashy, but still noticeable finding alongside it: that the growth of irreligion, which had been going on non-stop since the early '90s, stalled out within the last couple of years.
As someone who still calls himself an atheist but has also grown extremely disillusioned with the "atheist movement", what you're talking about here pretty much lays out exactly why it happened. Atheism's boom years came largely because many Americans of a left-leaning or libertarian worldview, fed up with the growing dominance of Christianity by reactionary ideologues, abandoned religion altogether because they saw no place for themselves within it. So when atheism itself grew increasingly dominated by its own breed of reactionary ideologues who were hard to distinguish from their Christian counterparts, liberals and leftists whose moral convictions ran deeper than their religious beliefs (or unbelief) turned their backs on the atheists too. These days, the boom market in religion is with the "exvangelicals": people who have abandoned evangelicalism but still identify as Christians, and instead gravitate to more liberal churches.
Hey, will you look at that. The PRRI survey I mentioned earlier? It was showing a growth spurt in the once-moribund mainline Protestant denominations.
(Also, I think some of the big boom in atheism has to do with the Catholic Church pedophilia scandals. Those pretty much broke the influence of the Church in this country, especially in the northern states where, back in the '90s, it was powerful enough to kill Sinead O'Connor's career. I believe it was the key factor in New England's rapid secularization in particular, and, together with the Magdalene laundry scandal, a major factor in Ireland's secularization as well. These days, the well of "cafeteria Catholics" who identified as Catholic because they were raised that way, and dropped that identification due to their outrage and disgust with the Church, is pretty much tapped out; it's mostly the true believers who remain. Hence why "trad" Catholics have been getting so much more vocal and visible in the last few years: their voices are no longer drowned out by the more moderate laity.)
I don't usually comment on political videos but I wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your content and how in depth you go into certain internet cultures. I remember the youtube athiest era all too well.
Same yeah i agree. Kavernacle has some pretty good videos on this topic. Just discovered him a couple months ago
@@Parker402 These videos are great, I was never a Atheist and I never will be. I am a Christian.
@@Parker402 The phenomenon of anti-sjw nerd culture is fascinating to listen to him break down. As a massive Star Wars fan, I am glad someone is calling out how right-wing so many fandoms have gotten.
@@JonathanGarcia-tr6py Yeah I'm pretty sure Kavernacle has done videos about how the far right star wars people attacked the Last Jedi for things like having diversity in the movie
@Rusty Shackleford Ha, The Jesus of the bible would have been a Israeli nationalist. He also supported the roman empire against the elements of Judaism who wanted to rebel. "Render unto caesar what is caesar's, Render unto god what is god's". Also, he was crucified for destroying the market in the high temple. Which led to the Jewish people calling for his execution. The roman governor/ judge wanted to save him and tried to do so.
Bear in mind, the bible is written for the conversion of the roman empire by romans. So Pontius Pilot, the render under Caesar lines and the story of the crucifixion may have been exaggerated in order to not make the romans the bad guy,
I fell down the alt right rabbit hole because of guys like this. I was anti feminist, anti LGBT+ as well. It wasn't until recently that I changed my opinion and who I was. Now that I look back at the video I used to praise, I feel like I was a disgusting person. I used to call black people the N word in a bad way. Saw them as lesser than me. But I'm not longer like that after having more world and life experiences. I feel like when you are never really challenged, or when you don't allow yourself to be challenged, you never grow as a person. And that is the issue with people like this. They don't want to be challenged. They have to be right. And when they aren't, they make themselves bigger and yell. They talk over you, and get fit he point where you can't get your voice across, give up, walk away. Then they dance and act like they won. When I reality all they did wash bully you.
Chris, June and Gregory are miles away from Carl and I wouldn't call them right-wing at all.
Plus 2015 (and those years) is over and they got out of the anti-sjw (and with it the alt-right rabbit hole) wave, just like many of us.
100 percent. Chris and Shoe were a massive part of me escaping the rabbithole
As of 2 years ago I left that toxic culture war skeptic community
I’m still an Atheist and a Skeptic but I’m a Humanist
Well this gives me hope that maybe some of them will outgrow it. As a lifelong atheist, skeptic and humanist it was mind-boggling to me as a not very online person wtf was going on.
What's also toxic is the left wing community.
@Anew Divinhell the toxicity of the left is just as bad. Although I am a neolib there are people on my wing that are just as toxic.
@Anew Divinhell your proving my point. Anyways I have better things to do in my life than have an online comment battle. Get a life.
I would like to defend TJ "The Amazing Atheist" Kirk here because he's been reformed, according to his content over the past year or two. He still does criticize "wokescolds" which is just a leftist synonym for SJWs and describes people who are very obnoxious in how they advocate for progressive ideas. However, he has walked back his denunciation of feminism and broadly supports the concept according to his recent content. Is TJ redeemed and should everyone love him now? I don't think so, but he is better.
Even in the very beginning I couldn't watch him because of how "very obnoxious" he is while advocating for atheist ideas. He just yells a lot. He's like the Alex Jones of atheists.
Even reformed is a stretch. He criticised SJW/WokeScolds which as you say are literally the same thing - and honestly the left adopting the term woke scold is kind of an admission that he was right the whole time on that topic.
But even when criticising them, he was always a critic of conservatism, he didn't just pretend to be left wing while moaning about SJWs, he actively stuck to his guns, supported Bernie, criticised Trump, McCain, Palin, all those guys.
People were just so hypersensitive about him criticising a toxic sect of the left wing community that they branded him as some right wing nutjob like the rest of them - and this video sorta adds to that.
@@RaggedyCatProductions Woke-scold is not even a left term, since it was coined by Ben Shapiro, but Vaush made it popular in left circles.
I was never really an Atheist, I was always more Agnostic, but it was kinda interwoven back then. Still, I remember running into Sargon of Akkad during the GamerGate days. People like them made small good points on the surface, promptly followed by super shitty things that would make most sane people want to blow their own brains out. Nowadays, they don't even make points. They just say the same things they've been saying for the past six or so years and claim they're "above" everyone. The Quartering has basically lost his mind and Carl (Sargon) might as well be dressed as damn Nazi these days to "own the libs." If I've learnt anything, its that once you start leaning towards any side really hard, your brain just melts.
I like this video, makes some really great points.
Although, I also want to add one point, that has nothing to do with the entire political anti-SJW stuff:
There are only so many ways you can debunk religious arguments, be it on the existence of god, or the anti-science stuff. At this point, online, everything that needs to be said on the atheism vs theism front has been said. The videos are out there. The theists aren't making new arguments, therefore there is nothing new coming from the atheists, since atheism, as a movement, is entirely reactionary in its nature. So, the atheists and skeptics that stayed with these subjects exclusively and didn't enter the political battles on social issues simply have run out of new things to say. Therefore, the "new atheist community" either faided out in terms of contemporary content, or they started making the shifts you describe here.
Very true.
AronRa and Potholer54 are pretty much the only debunking channels I watch regularly now. The rest... Hardly ever... Most of them seems to have gone from "This is why religion / flat earth / whatever is wrong" to "ha ha ha, look at that idiot".
We've heard the arguments hundreds, if not thousands, of times. And we've hear the rebuttals hundreds, if not thousands, of times. Unless someone comes up with an entirely new argument at some point, I would argue that the debate is well and truly over and we should stop wasting our time. Especially since all these channels now do is to point fingers and mock people.
All things being equal baby rats become fully grown rats. That is all
It really is saddening, I loved these guys when I was a little 'un, and it was so refreshing to see muscular atheism being unafraid to question the sacred cows and exercising scientific inquiry in the face of woo and the power of the Religious Right.
Sad to see them punching down, and falling for the same pseudoscience they decried.
I guess it's the ultimate lesson of atheism and skepticism: examine the argument, and don't accept authority on it's word.
Calling Religion Woo, whole sayung You merely lack belief in a god and Make No Claims and have no Burden of proof, is Why I reject Modern Atheist Thinking.
I was really drawn to new atheism in my high school years because I resented my overbearing Catholic-school upbringing and I quite liked how it felt like a community of free rational thinking, pro-science, secular humanists pushing back against religious encroachment. It ultimately has been a positive influence on me because it opened me up to the world of philosophy, intellectual debate and an interest in learning about science, astronomy, history, and politics. But looking back on it now, I certainly share your perspective on how it set the framework for a lot of these new toxic movements, which really saddens me.
TJ Kirk (he has been trying to separate himself from the Amazing Atheist maxim for years) doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the other members of the skeptic community. He genuinely seemed to care about pushing anarchistic-atheism (ie. opposing religious institutions and their power structures) and checking the more problematic and cringe aspects of "the left" back in the day. However, once it was apparent that these were not the fights that mattered most- to a leftist anyway- he shifted his focus while his fellow "skeptics" started their lucrative right-wing grifting.
Always appreciated him for daring to criticize JBP while many others simply fell in line.
A little too late.
@M.K W.K. Isn't it weird how people are still so defensive of TJ? So many comments defending him here. Same thing with Shoe too. Maybe they didn't watch him when I was watching him, 2012--2018. I'm all for redemption but the guy was horrible, and I regret being sucked in by his grift.
@@rickstarz Yeah, Honestly can't believe how many TJ stans there still are. They really need to watch his older content if they haven't. I watched him too from 2015 to 17, mostly his podcast Drunken Peasants where'd he make "jokes" about rape and other weird and creepy shit, also drop the N, F and R slurs a lot and say horrifyingly ableist shit and I'm amazed it's not more well known at least from what I see. It's gonna take a lot for me to believe TJ's actually changed.
@@IO1070IO Yeah, I watched the DP religously for 2 years and remember all that crap, as well as some of their guests - Milo, Sargon etc. And their ideas about rape were particularly disturbing. I was an impressionable young man and TJ would constantly bang on about how asking for consent could 'kill the mood.'
I was into some of these Atheist channels a while ago. Once they started talking about anti-sjw stuff I was confused and quickly left. I had always been extremely left and once they started talking about anti-sjw stuff and, of all things, gamergate I checked out. Watching TAA whine about Sarkisian was the biggest cringe I had ever seen.
Now there's dudes who make this their entire identity.
I often wonder what would have happened to me. I used to be big into RUclips during the peak atheism days. Got busy with University and stuff just before the anti-SJW boom happened. I was always very left-wing, but I imagine I could have fallen into a rabbit hole if people I'd admired were slowly drip-feeding it over time because I hadn't learnt how to identify ideologies back then.
@@rawalshadab3812 Any time the subject came up I'd get all pissy with the content creator. I never felt like I was being targeted for being a gamer. Nowadays I try not to tell people I am one due to the bad rap the word has now.
I instantly hated it and stopped watching. Especially the tirades against women. My wife is a hardcore feminist and I am too. To watch these guys say that things are fine while I watch my state and country continue to take away rights from women was infuriating. I changed the stuff I watched and they stopped popping up in my suggestions feed.
That Alt-Right pipeline is real though. I've watched a family member get radicalized by it and now they're a non-binary republican. They're young. They've tried debating me on stuff. I just retort with real life experiences.
Gamers aren't oppressed and never were. Some of the stupidest shit I ever saw lol.
Glad you didn't get into that stuff, looks like you had better things to occupy your mind with. As long as you're still a good person, keep on keeping on.
The Amazing Atheist is much better nowadays lol Definitely on the left.
He always was, despite dabbling with incorporating right-wing topics for views.
And this is the video that got me to subscribe! THANK YOU! It summarises why I left the sceptic movement ages ago, even if I mainly followed content creators who attempted to distance themselves from the new atheism movement, such as the Sceptic's Guide to the Universe, by highlighting how their agendas were different. In the end, it made no difference to me because I feared the 'fandom', for lack of a better term, would start harassing me too soon enough. It stopped feeling safe. I remember there was some sort of big sceptic conference where Rebecca Watson's invitation was rescinded in favour of Richard Dawkins', who had started showing his islamophobe colours by then. That was the wake-up call for me. Left and never looked back.
I owe the New Atheist movement a debt. It helped me get out of the abusive religion I was raised in. Then it turned toxic and those were really bad times. The skeptic community is far from dead though. They avoid the New Atheist label of course, but there’s still plenty of folks out there decrying the abuses of organized religion in general and the creeping theocracy of Religious Right in particular.
There is a decent number of religious leaders who have called out Christian nationalism.
THIS point needs to be honest here, Atheist community had a lot of Liberalism they weren't actual leftist.
This isn't a secret. They never claimed to be leftists, they always called themselves liberals.
Although back then most people still thought liberal =leftist.
@@SidheKnight Very true indeed people still sort of assume this
Funny, because since elevator gate I think the exact opposite, that the atheist movement swapped atheism for woke finger wagging and navel gazing.
Found your channel about a week ago and can’t stop watching. You are going to get bigger for sure
I remember GamerGate being a kind of political awakening for me when I was younger and people like Sargon as well as the sceptics convincing me they were the way. I probably watched all these guys till 2018 until I realized it was getting too far right for me lol.
Gamergate was absolutely nutty for someone who only half paid attention to it. Like... I swear there's people out there _still_ mad that Gone Home exists, haha.
@@Phourc yeah same here. To this day I dont fully understand what it was about
A gamergate, I didn't really give a fuck about gaming journalism, but did care about the vilification by people like Anita Sarkeesian and the media that just ate it up. Haa, crazy times. Stand by every point I made then lol
Well if you are a fan of the guy who made this video congradulation you went from consuming center right content too far left content 🤦🏻♂️.
This guy is and idiot he has no idea what he is talking about.
@@sabelotoda2 it wasn't centre right though. And it was already going to the far right 🤦♂️. The centre right pretty much doesn't exist anymore. These centre left, liberals, and the far right
Of all of these guys, the only ones I still watch are armored skeptic, Chris raygun and sometimes Thunderf00t. All of them have more or less transitioned their channels away from the culture stuff of the past and focus on other things. TF mostly does science stuff, CRG talks mostly games, but not gamergate type stuff, and armored skeptic does content about genuine skeptic topics. Of the three armored skeptic is easily my favorite to watch now and his change has been pretty cool to watch.
Shoe0nhead has been interesting to watch too. She has moved pretty hard left and I’m here for it.
I'm a Christian an believe in god and stuff like that but I respect your views and love many of your takes in the video.Just came across this and I think you just earned a sub and a like also I did find it funny how so many atheist channels changed to anti sjw anti feminist and then many parroted each other like a religion (I just thought that was funny)
these videos are always on such interesting topics!! even the niche ones are fascinating!! love your stuff!!!!
YT gave the award of demonetization with this one.
Still an important topic.
I actually never fell down the pipeline maybe because when the anti-sjw/feminist stuff was sarting to get popular I was watching libertarian socalist rants and getting into rage against the machine who are far-leftist, supported feminist, and pro-socal justice so by 2016/17 when it was extremely popular I found the skeptic or "rationals" (remember that) jus cringe asf and didn't really watch them so yea thanks LSR for that
I think in 2016 I was still using RUclips just for music and how-to videos and by the time I got to video essays (late 2017-ish I think?) a lot of these New Atheist types were already on the downhill slide, and their involvement with Gamer Gate already put a sour taste in my mouth about them already so I managed to avoid that rabbit hole.
Why would I trade my atheism/skepticism to be an anti-sjw? That sentence alienates me.
It was the "race realism" stuff that really soured me with some skeptics.
You only like science when it's pro-state religion. Yeeeeh, attack the Bible. Attack Social Justice faith? Attack socio-constructivism? Burn this infidel?
Race realism/biological determinism is to SJ what evolution is to Christians.
@@Bvic3
No, its that the people that keep promoting it have ulterior motives that have nothing to do with science. You could compare average IQ from people under 1.8m tall and over 1.8m tall and one would be higher on average and one would be lower on average. Unless you can point to a specific genetic indicator and do unethical knockout studies on humans it's foolish to hold such evidence up as anything more than coincidence. Also, the folks saying "black" people have lower IQ always balk at the idea that we could just have the most intelligent people of every "race" reproduce and make even smarter humans, assuming intelligence is genetic (with little evidence supporting it, save comparing humans to other species; we are all the same species, we don't vary that much) as low IQ folks like you do 😜
@@kingbugs3558 It's perfectly fine science to notice that tall people are more intelligent on average, just like brain size is correlated with intelligence (even better with correcting for body size).
Yes, science has ulterior motives: the understanding of reality.
And what's the issue with eugenics? Why would it be surprising that people want a better society? What is weird is that some people oppose eugenics and want the world to keep being bad and even want it to be worse.
Why do you want to keep africans subservient instead of enhancing them genetically so they can become autonomous and truly independent intellectually then culturally and politically?
@@Bvic3
Here, how about this: take a sampling of people who prefer tacos over pizza and vice versa. One group will have a higher average IQ than the other.
@@Bvic3
Also, I'm unimpressed with your comprehension abilities given your paragraph about eugenics and declaration that I want Africans to be subservient in relation to what I previously said. You are either incapable of having a proper dialogue on the topic due to cognitive deficiency or are very intellectually dishonest.
Skepticism is way older than New Atheism.
People are saying NO BS is MIA.
Good.
His chair broke and he couldn't get up
@@Venus-yt8dd 😆😆
He is appearently, good.
That's seems fine
At least thunderf00t had a bit of awakening after how the 'skeptics' behaved when his father died
If you don't mind me asking, what did they do?
Bumping this video to know what happened.
I couldn't care less about what happened to him, and I have no pity if the leopards ate his face. Whatever he got, he deserved it, it was his own doing.
@@herlandercarvalho well you're not much better then
Something I bring up again and again whenever the topic of the new atheist/skeptic community comes up is how it's weird how so many of the people that came from there, especially young people who got their first political awakening formed by it, wound up on the right. In particular it's weird that there weren't more that became leftists. Not that I'm bemoaning it, they aren't good people folks, so it's not the world's biggest loss. But it would seem that there's a pretty reasonable progression that could have been made there, for people whose political identity was formed by atheism, to end up on the side of socialism and communism. Especially given how the only atheist governments in history have been left wing ones. Obviously there are good reasons why people wouldn't want to become adherents of those countries' ideology just because they were atheist, but it's still weird that there is a complete absence of that kind of people.
They didn't die the hero, they lived long enough to become the villain.
Sometimes I’m actually amazed that I didn’t end up a right-wing bigot like all these guys I used to really like during the 2000s. I watched all their debates, bought their books, even had a Skeptic Magazine subscription, for crying out loud. Yet here I am, still the old SJW, as I have been since back in the 1980s. I‘m quite disgusted by all of them. I sometimes wonder what Hitchins would say. I hope he wouldn’t agree with their casual sexism, racism or even Trumpism. But I‘m not sure since at the core of most of their personal, say, developments lies a sense of grievance and loss of sovereignty of definition. They’re all old white men, after all.
Nearly 4 years later and this video just continues to be right.