🧙 Aemond or Vhagar: Who is to blame? | House of the Dragon
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- When Vhagar's jaws exploded prince Lucerys and his dragon Arrax, who was really to blame for that? Vhagar, the one who actually did the big chomp chomp? Aemond, who urged his dragon to hunt the pair? In this video, I take a stab at that question and explore it from the perspective of one of the most mysterious parts of House Targaryen: the dragonbond and how it allows them to control (or not control) their dragons.
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00:00 Intro
04:20 Aemond's reaction
09:04 Controlling dragons is an illusion
13:20 What does Dracarys actually mean?
15:17 Getting lit in the house of the undying
17:02 Rhaenyra and Syrax
19:10 Daemon and Caraxes
21:28 Laena and Vhagar
23:16 Iron Throne sidequest
25:50 Rhaenys and Meleys
27:46 The people V. Aemond Targaryen
#GameOfThrones #houseofthedragon #hotd #asoiaf 
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Loved this. I think many similarities can be drawn between the dragon bond and the connection the Stark children have with their direwolves. Even when not directly skinchanging in the traditional sense, their feelings and impulses are reflected in how the wolves act.
Robb and Grey Wind fighting as one comes to mind, as does Shaggydog becoming aggressive when Rickon feels rebellious. Rickon’s scenes are particularly interesting because they show that if a human doesn’t want to restrain any impulses (as a child might not), the animal may act according to those visceral impulses. It’s like the skinchanger has to actively enforce the superego to promote some restraint; otherwise, the animal will reflect the true state of their mind in that moment.
In the same way, I think Vhagar attacked mainly because Arrax shot first, but also because Aemond probably fantasized about killing his nephew more than once. His objective, superficial thoughts were of scaring and bullying him, but deep down there was a visceral feeling that could be sensed by Vhagar and acted upon when his superego's grip faltered.
Glad you enjoyed it! Exactly you get it perfectly. Rickon and Shaggydog are a perfect skinchanging example. Robb when he's intimidating Jaime as well comes to mind, and also when Grey Wind bites off the finger of Lord Umber when Umber is being a jerk to Robb. All linked ideas of the impulses of novice psychics in GRRM's universe inadvertently commanding their familiars to do what their heart wants in that moment. When you get to someone like Daemon and Rhaenys, that connection becomes one that can be used to issue commands and behaviors with nothing more than likely imagining the dragon doing it.
olha só é a mikannn mika com tres Ns no final!
We never hear Daemon give a single verbal command to Caraxes throughout season 1. Even at the Stepstones.
True! Neither Meleys and Rhaenys.
Such a great comment!!
didn’t even realize it until you pointed it out
Do we ever hear Rhaenyra verbally commanding Syrax after the time jump/actor switch? They seem to have the same sort of tight bond as well.
i will not be able to unsee dragons as anger translators
@JoeMagician I just made a meme based on this and sent it to your insta DMs.
I never saw it this way, this is a new perspective. I like it
You can't just stop at 7 badges Aemond. You need all 8 to control Vhagar.
Aemond: Hey I tamed the thing when i had zero badges ok!
This take really put into perspective how scared Lucerys & Arrax must have been
I know and Arrax was such a good boy, just like Luc. I hate that Nanna Vhagar chomped them.
@@Gigipretty64 luc not really that innocent when he has high security prison level violent tendencies and anger issues and had no problem pulling out a knife on his uncle and slicing his eye out, then running to him mommy to protect him, avoiding punishment and expecting Aemond to just brush it off and forget it ever happened. Not to mention he taunted and joked about the whole pig thing afterwards.
Facial scars that deep damage the facial nerves in the cheeks and around the eyes. People who get those types of injuries typically suffer from life long intense headaches, sensitivity to light, and a stinging pain in their scar. Of course Aemond was angry and wanted some sort of justice for being hurt and no one doing anything about it. If luc had plucked his eye out as requested it’s likely he would have left with his life but he refused because the strong boys have been able to get away with everything so far with no repercussions so he thought they were okay. He also came as an envoy so it wasn’t the right time and day.
But He never even apologized and the blame got pushed onto aegon and Aemond instead thanks to the idiot vizzy T. And that grudge got held for years, especially since Aemond knew the strong boys would have to die eventually if his family wanted to survive. Bastards cannot ascend the throne uncontested if there are legitimate heirs existing. Even luc admitted this to Corlys when Corlys told him he would be heir to driftmark. He knew if he ascended that would mean every other velaryon would have to be dead. And that almost happened when Vaemond got killed for speaking out and trying to save his family lineage from treason and usurpation from a bastard. If they had done nothing and let Rhaenyra ascend, aegon, Aemond, Haelaena, Daeron and the young children Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, and Maelor would have eventually been killed like the classic case of the two princes in the tower from English royal history. They were the heirs to the throne after their father passed but they were declared illegitimate by their uncle who managed them for the time being, they went missing one day after being secluded in a tower for months, and no one ever saw them again. Their uncle declared himself the rightful heir and ascended as king.
Sure, no 14 kid deserves to die like that but he wasn’t “innocent” or “good” like people like to paint him innacurately. I get being sympathetic to him but the people in this show are far more nuanced, cutthroat, and hardened. No one is completely evil and no one is completely good. Politicians are all snakes, what makes these people saints if they are nothing but politicians on steroids because they have absolute authority and aren’t even democratically elected? Especially the Targaryens. They don’t respect the laws of the land, get married to their siblings and even take multiple wives and just do whatever they want and disrespect others, while expecting them to be dutiful and allow corruption and treason to happen. And They have an unfair exclusive power advantage of dragons to be able to be dictators over everyone else. It’s like if everyone in the nation was unarmed except for one family that possesses flying nukes to threaten anyone if they disobey. The current Targaryen heir commits even adultery and trying to pass off bastards as legitimate heirs to assets and titles which would cause chaos all over the country because all the feudal lord’s bastards and daughters would start civil wars to fight over their house seats, killing off most of the families in less than a decade and causing mass collapse of order and peace, and causing famine, disease and poverty. This war is not simply about gender, it is much more than that.
Also around the time when Daemon gets shot, a volley of arrows are launched at him and he instinctively lifts his arm to shield his face and at the same time, in sync with Daemon, Caraxes lifts the same corresponding wing to shield them both.
The reason Aemond is speaking in the Common Tongue and not Valyrian, I would assume, is because that's his mother tongue and the language he uses every day. He probably shifted to it unconciously out of panic. Compared to Jace and Luke (who get tutored in it and who's parents often speak in it conversationally), Aemond is probably less confortable with it.
Damn that’s a really good idea, definitely my head canon from here on out
Hightowers with Targaryen preorder dlc
@@RollMeAFat1 I thought everyone already assumed it was the case, seems logical
Came here to say this. It was in a moment of surprise/panic, Aemond forgets to command in high valyrian. Not that it would matter.
Another thing would be that he didn’t have a dragon when he was younger, he’d only see the other kids train their bonds but he wouldn’t participate himself. And the way he was looking at Jace and Vermax gives the idea that he might not be listening to the lessons he’s just staring in heartbreak and sad-boy bc he doesn’t have one.
I actually think that when Rhaenyra is having her miscarriage, Syrax knows exactly what’s happening and why she’s in pain. Even regular pets know when their owner is pregnant and some can even recognize when they’re beginning labor. If that’s the case, then a dragon who is of a species thought to be smarter than men and who is literally soul bonded and psychically connected to their rider would absolutely recognize what’s happening when their rider is having a late term miscarriage/labor resulting in stillbirth.
I wonder if we can take this one step further - the bond is a two way thing, so not only is Caraxes Daemon's dragon "anger translator" but Daemon is also Caraxes' human "anger translator". And so particularly when someone like Daemon or Aemond, as a child, bonds with an older dragon with pre-existing anger issues, that helps shape the violent and unstable human they turn out to be. So Daemon grows up as someone who "likes to burn" because he bonded, at an impressionable age, with Caraxes who already "likes to burn". Maybe part of what sends Danny, and a lot of other Targaryens, mad is what the dragon bond does to them. To paraphrase a different franchise - she becomes "more dragon than human, twisted and evil" (violent and ragefull?). Crazy Targaryens who "like to burn", is a coin toss probable outcome of a human bonding with a dragon. Also, with the ending of Game of Thrones, Jon is also a Targ and a dragon rider, could Drogon be responding to Jon?!?! That's why Drogon doesn't burn Jon. And burning the Iron Throne comes from Jon's own feelings. We all known he "doesn't want it", and doesn't like being pushed towards it, and doesn't like what the lust for it has done to other people, that's why he's just had to kill the woman he loves. You could easily see Jon in the moment taking a look at the throne, and saying "F*** that thing". And Drogon responds to that. It seems a pretty solid culmination of Jon's attitude to the Iron Throne, and the game of thrones that it represents, after what's gone down since King Robert turned up in Winterfell. Perhaps pushing it too far, both Dragon and Jon do the same thing, say "good riddance Westeros" and disappear to the remote place where they'd been before.
How did you just make that terribly written scene make some kind of sense? I will absolutely buy Drogon hearing Jon, the other dragon in the room, thinking "F*** that iron chair," and acting on it, as dragons do.
Good take, but I prefer to think the shows season 8 never happened 😅
@@MariaIrbis Same, honestly. I prefer to pretend that GoT was suddenly cancelled after S4, and the rest was all a terrible dream.
Also, the green are quite obvious in how they see dragons as weapon while the black thank to Daemon seems to have a better understanding of the magical nature of dragons.
So i'd say that the green want to use the dragons instead of being dragons
Excellent point. Who has taught the Alicent’s sons about being a dragon rider? The dragon keepers who do not ride? Viserys was the only dragon rider and he ignored those boys. Rhaenyra theoretically had plenty of teachers around. Further, Alicent had very little knowledge of or liking for dragons. I can understand how Aegon and Aemond think of the dragons as only weapons.
@@catseye1009viserys was barely a rider himself given Baleryon died shortly after they were bonded.
Tho I think it comes down to the personality of the rider. Aemond and aegon showed this pov since they were kids and back then they all lived together. Aemond doesn't want a dragon because he loves dragons he wants one because he feels weak without one. Compared to for example Laenna that was clearly in love with dragons since she was a child. Or Danny.
Also, I feel like someone can give you a dog and most people wouldn't need to be taught to form a bond with it instead of just doing training.
Mentioning the pocket sand moment in one of the most pivotal scenes in the entire show makes me laugh every time
It will never not be funny that Aemond got Dale Gribble'd
"Exploded into a bunch of small prince nuggets" isn't a combination of words I ever thought I'd hear...😂😂😂
The dragons have natural instincts like any other animal. Both boys were in a heightened emotional state (anger, fear & panic)which added to the predator/prey/fight/flight response. The bad weather & low visibility probably didn't help either...
Ooooh, came to the channel to rewatch some older videos, and I get a new one. Lucky me!
so glad to see you back!
But Amanda, WHERE DOES THE BOND COME FROM?!
@@JoeMagician you know as well as i do that the answer is aliens
Gets me everytime, those silly billy dragon aliens
ah, this is at the very heart of valyrian lore that may never be directly answered unless george writes new material about old valyria. i kind of like that we don't know for sure how the dragonbond works. makes the dragons seem more alive if they're not just mere puppets under the spell of blood magic. for all we know, it could be the dragons shaping the riders' characters as dragon lords
Low key a different type of beastling.
It's important to notice how the dragon bond goes both ways. Aemond immediately changes and is a lot more aggressive to the other children as soon as he bonds with Vhagar, where before he was much less confident. It reminds me of Dune where the stronger ancestors are able to take over Aleia as a fetus.
I read it as: Vhagar is so old and powerful and has such an incredible will and aggression that it ended up changing Aemond instead of Aemond training the dragon.
Interesting idea, tho I personally thought it was just because Aemond finally thought he could be more aggressive. He carried a lot of anger and desire for revenge since before Vhagar, but he was a "second son" with no dragon. He had nothing to stand on until he claimed the biggest dragon alive.
Further more Laenna seemed to get none of that effect.
Well I'll admit I was wrong. When I first watched the season finale of house of the dragon I thought that they were trying to shift the blame of the kill from Aemond onto Vhagar... that they were merely removing his agency from the situation to get revenge so they could further the "control is an illusion" theme and maintain almonds likeabilty. In my mind reading fire and blood aemond was a villain, even the maesters who were biased to the greens detested him and scapegoated him. I was ready for aemond to be a true blue villain. And even though I think that wasn't the right read of it now, I still think everything I said applies. I underestimated the great lengths the show went to in portraying the dragon bond. Maybe it's a skepticism I've acquired since the end of GoT, but in a way I didn't feel like they went very deep into the dragon bond even here. But you've connected the dots enough for me to see it your way. I wanted it to be aemonds fault, i thought that the show was trying to make it Vhagars fault. Really a true understanding of the dragonbond shows you that it's both of their faults. Thank you for enlightening me, and giving me a little more faith in house of the dragon. Part of me was really worried that the show was being played up for the big cinematic moment pitifully trying to save aemond from the blame. Maybe even in the book it wasn't quite so simple. Now only if they'd give Aegon II that treatment...
Condal and his team are far more committed to the fantasy aspects of Martin's world, and I hoped I showed that as most of the examples are from House of the Dragon. And my frustration that Game of Thrones hinted at the dragonbond being very important but never explored it in the same depth. Great comment, and glad I was able to help you enjoy the series more!
@JoeMagician yeah I was there when we were sizing up Condal and everything was being said about him being much closer to George. I trusted him, but season 1 still had it's issues. A part of me wanted to trust Condal, and even blame Sapochnik for the issues lol. It's not so simple. I had to reckon that some of the shows issues were also Condals fault. Season 2 of House of the Dragon has a lot riding on it for me. After season 8 I divorced myself of the show almost entirely with the exception of events confirmed by George to be true. I've come to see them as separate realities of one universe (my headcanon anyway). Season 1 of house was just disappointing enough for me to extend that perspective onto house of the dragon. Part of it is probably just the adaptation, it's not really gonna live up to the books but it doesn't stop me from hoping and usually getting disappointed. I genuinely hope house of the dragon can aspire to the heights of early game of thrones. It's not too late yet.
So needed this today. Thank you. This is probably my favourite topic in the entire lore, and the dragons are my favourite characters. Brilliant analysis as always, thank you.
Sooooo glad to be back! Thank you for having so many great vidoes to watch during the break. Missed you mate!❤🇦🇺
Hey Joe, Team Black Queen Dream Team... Syrax says: Not on my watch! In S01E10 at the Dragonstone footbridge, Rhaenyra was teetering on the precipice of war, leaning towards joining Daemon in immediately attacking Otto and company. Syrax then roared to save the day. To snap Rhaenyra out of it, to get her to remember who the dragon knows, she is. To stop this dishonor, the imminent massacre of a peace delegation, something Syrax's very presence would guarrantee. For Syrax is wild but wise, royal but loyal, a noble but honorable beast, who knows and loves its rider. When the rider almost lost it, to save her the dragon took control.
This really goes to show the depth the writers put in to show how a dragon bond works, and it really does make sense~
It for sure takes alot of willpower to make even a dragon see you as someone worthy of its time, great video!
Gotta feel bad for Cyrax since Rhaenyra has given birth like 6 times and was bonded for all of them
I feel like Syrax’s payback was “lmao I’ll show you. I’ll lay like a dozen clutch of eggs! See how that feels 😤🤣”
Rhaenyra: “hmm. Stomach feels kinda weird. Must’ve been that quail I had earlier.”
Oh nice to see some new work from Joe
So glad to hear from you, Joe! Great vid!
More to come!
One of my favourite A Song of Ice and Fire scholars is back!
Hope when season 2 starts there will be more of Joe to see 👍
25:18 Aerea Targaryen mentioned ❤😫🥺😔!!
Joe, thanks so much for all of your hard work and the time you've spent in creating this. I've really enjoyed your informative videos and their thoughtful layouts. At this point, I feel like GRRM owes you a percentage of his royalties for keeping the interest in his work alive!!🤣
I'll take a crisp high five from the great and powerful turtle himself!
I had wondered if that's what explains the strange behavior of Syrax after the storming of the dragon pit.
Aemond at 6:05:
👁️ 👄 👁️🗨️
Aemond is one hundred percent to blame for this and kick starting the Dance of the Dragons in general, not Vhagar, none of this was Vhagar’s choice, Aemond made the active choice to chase Luke and Arrax into that storm and start a fight between to vastly differently sized opponents in a very dangerous environment, not Vhagar, Vhagar couldn’t care less about any of this, she was only doing what she believed her rider wanted her to do in that moment, and up until those final few seconds, Aemond DID want her to kill Luke, he just didn’t want to be blamed for kick starting this war and he certainly didn’t want to be called a kinslayer.
This is the fantasy equivalent of a man in a semi truck chasing after a boy on a bicycle and not being able to reasonably foresee that this action might have a fatal outcome, if a man points a gun at another man, is that intent to harm? It is if the gun goes off, accidentally or otherwise, it doesn’t matter if he thinks the gun is empty at the time, if you are going to point a gun at someone, you should have the present of mind to check first, Aemond pointed a giant, flying, fire breathing gun at his nephew Lucerys, kept pulling the trigger to scare him and then had the nerve to act surprised when the gun went off.
Glad you’re back!
I need a dragon to be my anger translator! (Also excited to see your videos back ❤!)
Viserys is both wrong (there's more control than most realize through the dragon bond), and right (there are times that a dragon won't do what you consciously say because it's reacting to you subconscience, which is really dangerous because sometimes we don't WANT powerful beings to act on how we feel but to listen to what our rational brain is saying to them.)
Mmmmm Prince Nuggets.
Spicy Valyrian flavor
@@buuny2233 *Strong* Valyrian flavor
@@fourth-dimensionalbeing9737 Harsh burn.
In the Eragon books the dragons can put their mind inside their "heart of hearts" and can live on after their body dies
Amazing video Matt !!!!
HE’S BACK
Yay ! I’ve missed your content ! 🥹
So glad you’re back!! missed your excellent content
Great video ! I also saw everything as you did ! Aemond was bullied as a kid and became strong to order to never feel that way again ! I am similar in some ways ! I was bullied as a kid for being Asian ! But I always faced my bullies and fought them as a young boy growing up in the 80s ! So I know the will to become strong ! I studied martial arts growing up to better myself in many ways , but never would I ever become the bully that I hated and despised ! I very much enjoyed this scene not just for the stuff you pointed out but also it’s recreation of the source material from fire and blood ! Great work 🙌💯
19:49 "Pyshic Drgon Magic"
I felt it was funnier to leave it that way
Love it. Thanks Joe!
i also find it funny how if a dragon rider is often fertile or pregnant, their lady dragon may also too :)
Omgosh so glad you're back 😀😀
I have an additional thought on Drogon, Jon, and the Iron Throne. When Jon forms a bond with one of Drogon's brothers, I suspect Drogon also feels the possibility of that bond being made. Sure, he was bonded with Dany, but I suspect he also felt the possibility of kinship with Jon, and perhaps even felt that Jon was someone who had been bonded to one of his sibling dragons. So that might also have been at play during that scene where Drogon roasts the Iron Throne - Jon didn't feel like an option due to how Jon had ridden a dragon Drogon knew well before. Dany didn't spend a long time angry at Jon at that time, so there wasn't another feeling for him to latch on to.
I wonder if Drogon had, at some level, seen the dreams that Dany had of the Iron Throne and how that object WAS something that drove her to make bad decisions. So it's possible he recognized the chair, and perhaps recognized some regret Dany had as she was dying - she may have been realizing that she threw away her chance to break the wheel, something she's felt as a life goal, for the power the Iron Throne represented. And that may have been visualized as the Throne itself in a way that Drogon could sense in her last moments. I feel like the Dragon Bond is pretty strong, much stronger than we give it credit for.
Of course it's a bad idea to give your own subconscious mind giant wings, tons of mass, and to top it off, fire torpedoes!
..and just like that...make noooo mistake about it.
Joe Magician....IS...BACK!!
Really great video thank you! 🤩
Glad you liked it!
Teens with dragons is a bad idea
This is such an excellent video! I just subscribed
What’s so interesting is that HOTD made Daemon immune to dragon fire (the moment where he and Ceraxes fly through Vhagar’s fire) but Laena is not. Does anyone remember in GOT when Dany was burning up the Lannisters and suddenly the Dothraki became immune to dragonfire? lol
He is not immune to fire. He has burn marks from a burning arrow since the war. Flying at high speed through a discharged fireball is not so dangerous
Yo awesome and Informative video. Thank you!
I missed you Joe! ^^
He was chasing lucerys who came as a messenger out of anger on the biggest dragon who had hundreds of war vhagar didn't disobey him just like arrax didn't disobey lucerys that's how dragons supposed to act their not horses who run from danger they run into whatever scares them and faces them and they connected with their riders emotions vhagar knew aemond emotions that he was angry and having fun with his first dragon battle experience cause vhagar not the type to play she was forreal maybe aemond was joking but that's not how you joke and arrax was overcoming his fear even without dracarys he acted on his own because lucerys scared how could he take his commands seriously and aemond telling vhagar no is confusing because that's what you wanted with riding her in a type of battle vhagar is a queen of war
Considering Viserys literally did three laps on Balerion after claiming him and didn’t go see him again after riding him until he died, despite knowing how sick he was, I’m inclined not to believe a word he says when it comes to Dragon riders and the bond they have with their dragons lol. Why did he even claim Balerion anyway? It makes no sense. But anyway!
Daemon and Caraxes had a bond like no other, Daemon doesn’t even have to say anything for Caraxes to know what he wants. The same was the case with all the other people who had dragons.
I’m of the personal opinion that the reason Luke died that way is because 1.) Arrax attacked her because he was scared to death of not only his own life but the life of his rider. Luke was also panicking and couldn’t control Arrax probably nearly as well as he usually could. 2.) Aemond is a freaking idiot that seemed to have forgotten he has a WAR dragon and his fantasies about revenge and hurting Luke as he chased him around like a lunatic undoubtedly fed into Vhagar and caused her to go in for the kill, especially since she was already pissed off he shot fire at her
I also wanted to try my hand at my thoughts to some of the other commenters amazing theories on this video!
Someone pointed out that the dragon bond could be two ways and could affect a rider and their personality’s, the examples being Daemon and his violent nature and Viserys with his meekness and the fact he got so sick afterwards when the dragon he claimed had ALSO been sickly.
I disagree with this because Daemon was wild, violent, and untamed even before he claimed Caraxes. Viserys was much the same way, as in his personality was the same before and after he claimed a dragon. Viserys sickness is a mystery cause I personally think he was cursed by the throne but I digress lol. It also didn’t help that Viserys was awful at taking care of his health which probably also didn’t do him any favors when he started to get sick from his numerous wounds and fevers he got from sitting on the throne. Man had gout, aching joints, back pain, and respiratory issues. He was so fat that he could barely get up to the throne 😭
That doesn’t mean the theory doesn’t hold merit I just don’t personally agree it goes as far as to alter personalities.
I also don’t agree with the age thing with Aemond and Vhagar because Laena controlled her just fine and she claimed her when she was a bit younger than 12. So we can assume she claimed her the same age as Aemond if a bit older. So to me, that gives no excuse. As for Aerea, well I think we give way more flack to Balerion than is needed. A dragons first instinct is to protect their rider. I very much doubt he would have gone to Valyria unless Aerea herself urged him to. They probably got stuck on the island and that’s why she was missing for a whole year. She had to have been stuck there without her dragon for almost the entirety of that year to judging from the state she came back in. My personal theory is she went and landed, Balerion took off, she got attacked by something or another and was trapped with no way back to her dragon, forcing Balerion to eventually land and fight his way to her and frantically make his way back home where it was safe. The bond between her and Balerion was new, so I doubt she could have called him if she was in danger and I doubt he could have sensed it like Drogon does with Dany(she raised him like her own child, I’d imagine her bond with her dragons is way stronger than miss runaways lol)
Whatever happened I just don’t buy that Balerion suddenly just decided to up and take his rider to Valyria when he’s shown no other record of him doing so. Why take her there and not Dragonstone where he’s much more familiar and comfortable? Not to mention no other dragon has done anything similar, certainly not Vhagar who should also have the same connection to Dragonstone as Balerion has to Valyria yet she’s never felt the need to cart off her rider to a destroyed and poisoned peninsula.
So many questions and no answers!
It was real fun reading all the comments and I immensely enjoyed the video Joe!
CaraXes is the best good Boi ever, constantly going into exile with no complaint.
Dragon pranks reminds me of the “car pranks” from season 1 of the Righteous Gemstones.
I regret nothing
I expect nothing less
I think there's something to be said about the riders view of the dragon bond too.
Aemond wanted Vhagar because it would make him strong. He saw her as a tool and a weapon. Laenna was enamoured with Vhagar and dragons themselves before she even bonded with her.
I cant say i remember a single moment of this with Aemond or Aegon to be honest. They do the training, but they dont seem truly interested in their dragons other than the power and "cool factor" it gives them. It definitely sounds like something that would both lessen the bond and make it weaker.
Daemon is also obsessed with valerya and more specifically dragons. It stands to reason the man that took so much time of his life to read and learn anything he can find about dragons and valerya seems to have one of the strongest bonds and command of his dragon.
Daenerys doesn't spend decades with her dragons but her bond with drogon seems very strong since he was fairly small.
The bond seems very much linked to riders emotions on that level too. And Aemond never showed much love or care for the dragons. He saw them as tools and thought he could use them that way and ended up killing his nephew for it.
Also another interesting point is that i dont think there was ever a rider than rode multiple dragons. Like afrer a dragon dies.
Vaghar : Bastard nuggets are best with bbw
Aemond: 👁️👄🌐
You are ignoring 2 things in your final conclusion about Aemond, that you have already mentioned in the video
1. The dragon bond is probably 2 ways, therefore it is not just the rider that affects the dragon, but also the reverse.
As you said, Caraxes was one of the wildest dragons originally, yet he acts tamer around people Daemon likes. Maybe it is not just Daemon making Caraxes tamer, but perhaps Daemon acts so violently and lashes out because, Caraxes affects his decision making changing his personality. Same could also be true for other riders. When Viserys claimed Balerion, the dragon was old, weak and sick. And what become of Viesrys? He become sickly, weak and he avoided conflict. Maybe the rider and dragon imprint themselves onto each other’s souls so deeply that it can cause one to become physically ill when the other is, and permanently change their personality.
So if you think Aemond’s anger affected Vhagar’s behaviour, why can’t the other be true to the same degree. Vhagar is a war dragon that had been part of many massacres and countless battles, so it makes sense for her, to be a more violence prone dragon, full of anger when she feels wronged, so what if this also affected Aemond’s behaviour. We can see that he was frustrated before claiming Vhagar, but after that he become extremely violent, he lashed out multiple times, and in the books (spoiler) went mad and burnt the Riverlands. Maybe it was Vhagar’s rage all along not his own, and she was affecting him not the reverse.
2. Dragons are sentient to an unknown degree, and I think your theory about Vhagar killing Luke only due to her rider’s frustration and anger towards him takes away her agency.
Well, why would Vhagar kill Lucerys and Arrax? Let’s look back what happened to Vhagar before. A few years ago, her own rider, Laena, forced Vhagar to burn her alive. Dragons are protective of their riders, and now she is forced to kill her own. And since their souls are connected, she could probably feel her die. This is probably the cruellest torture someone can inflict on a dragon. A few weeks pass, and she claims a new rider, and literally after their first flight, her new rider is ganged up upon, and maimed, and she can do nothing to protect him. Despite being the strongest dragon alive she has failed 2 riders in a month. Depending on how intelligent she is, she may even understand that the cause of the brawl was that she chooses this rider over her previous ones daughter. She is probably furious at herself.
So, when Arrax attacks her, he doesn’t just attack Vhagar, but her rider as well, and she has come to the end of her patience . Aemond could have died in the small dragons’ flames, so Vhagar decides that enough is enough, she will kill this insect no matter her rider says, because she must protect him. She can’t fail again.
+1 You haven’t mentioned this, but the dragon’s age is probably a way bigger factor than we think. There is a limit to how many and how intelligent creatures they can control. That’s the reason they can’t control human minds (Hodor is mentally challenged and has a weak mind, so he is an exception). Baby dragons are guaranteed to bond to the person who’s crib they are placed in, but older dragons are more selective in their choice of rider. So, we can probably assume, that the older and more powerful the dragon is, the harder it is to dominate and give commands to.
Caraxes and Meleys are young dragons, less than 100 years old, so it is probably a lot easier to maintain control over them than granny Vhagar the oldest dragon, especially one so young as Aemond. Accidents like this happened before with old dragons. Balerion the black dread has flown of with Aerea Targaryen likely after she has lost control of the old dragon so it wouldn’t be the first instance when an old dragon decided to do what they wanted and not what their riders intended.
In conclusion I think you have only examined one side of the coin, putting more blame to Aemond than he likely had in the incident.
That's a good point!
I wouldn't say ignored, I'd say left room for discussion and great comments like this.
As to how much the dragon influences the rider, the path their relationships take tend towards the rider being "master" and dragon becoming "servant" with the rider becoming dominant over time. However you are right that early on in the relationship, such as Arrea or Aemond or Luke, it's much more likely that the dragon is taking advantage of a door opened swinging both ways. It may in those moments when the dragons are riderless they get more choice in choosing a rider that matches their personality, whereas once the relationship is formed they're stuck with who they have. Be interesting if Vhagar regrets taking on Aemond in her grief over Laena.
I will say at the end I did include a bit on screen that I said Vhagar is slightly less guilty, which I think leans towards a lot of the commentary you're giving as well. She's not blameless, that wasn't my point. Just less so, as it seems clear from the whole sequences from when Luke arrives to when he dies that it was Aemond pushing the dragon rather than the other way around. It's not like Vhagar immediately charged Arrax and Luke upon seeing them in the courtyard, and left Arrax alone while the two riders conflicted inside the hall. But it is fair to say I didn't explore as much how Vhagar perhaps influences Aemond and will continue to do so in the rest of the dance. The books blame Aemond for it, however given that Vhagar is basically out of control here it may happen again.
Again, thank you for the well reasoned critique!
Seven be praised, asoiaf content!
Great explanation
Did I miss the ranking livestream, I can't find it anywhere
Still setting it up, hopefully tonight
Love the content! Great vid
(nobody uses hashtags anymore)
I truly dont believe nettles was a regular person. She either had Valyrian Blood or was w child of the Forrest.
Leaf=Nettles theory lets go!
Vhagar is not faster than Arrax - Arrax would have outflown Vhagar if it wasn't storming.
And it's still Aegon's fault as he instigated the attack.
I'm not so sure Dany should have felt the death of Viserion and Rhaegal. So far it seems you can't bond with more than one dragon. Perhaps she could have felt the death of Dragon if we saw that.
Dragon's have a mind of their own - especially a very old one like Vhagar. But it is 100% AEMOND'S FAULT.
Even if he started it off as "fun and games", his level of harassment of Lucerys back at the castle and in the skies was going to cause a problem. Vhagar is so old and too hard to control and Aemond should have been well aware of this. If he didnt want something bad to happen then he shouldnt have started something. Plain and simple, that was harassment that led to a death. Very similar how a road rage incident could end up killing someone.
And even factoring in a hypothetical where Vhagar never munched Arrax and Lucerys.... that could still have started a war when Lucerys got back to Dragonstone and reported that Aemond tried to kill him.
He started a situation and it was going to go bad no matter the end result. He is completely irresponsible and should be nowhere near the Iron Throne. 13 year old Lucerys knows how to handle responsibility better than Aemond.
actually iirc, if vhagar could melt stone by being relatively similar in age and heat as balerion's dragonflame was, it is probably hot enough to kill instantly and therefore painlessly
Luce came at him with a chainsaw, Aemond had the right to defend himself
Maybe not anger so much as the will of the rider
It’s interesting that Luke’s dragon kind of knocked the first domino. Is it possible that Luke had a weaker connection because he’s technically not a full Targaryen?
I think some dragons paired and taken care of by the rider connect the rider and dragon. Like dogs but dogs can bite ...Ceraxes, Meleys and Syrax all have good riders and relationships.
I do have a query. Let’s say a Targaryen kills the dragon rider for Balerion and he’s chilling in the dragon pit. Could they go down and bind with the dragon straight away? Would they have to wait? Since they killed the rider would they never be able to bond with the dragon? Also are book rules about dragon bonding applying in the show?
I'm gonna need you to stop starving me Joe. I can only rewatch so many times lol
Gonna be eating good
How do we know vhagar is faster than arrax? Were specifically told that small young dragons have a speed and agility advantage over larger ones.
Vhaegar loves brown haired Dornish.
3:15 probably actually not that extreme. We've seen how quickly a person's body just ceases to exist when hit directly by the fire from Season 7 and 8 Drogon, Vhagar is even bigger and her flames even hotter. The burning wouldnt have lasted long enough for any pain to be felt
Aemond is still to blame regardless of how you look at it. He set forth the chase with a gargantuan dragon.
So, he is guilty of 3rd degree murder at the least.
Do we ever see the Cannibal this season
I hope so!
Maybe in the show Aemond was remorseful but in the book Aemond fully intended to kill Lucerys
We never seen a body. So in Hollywood if you don't see a body, although it's probably dissolved The other dragon stomach but still if you don't see a body in Hollywood there's a possibility they could still be alive. Quite a fall though if he didn't get swallowed like we think he did which I don't think they would change that from the book
they have some cintrol of dragins. without blood its really had to control or follow commands
Mr 6 skins doesn't become immobile when he wargs his animals
Audio note - is it compression? Gates? Editing? Something is making the quieter parts of your speech and the first sounds of each phrase disappear.
Hi Joe magician long live the green long live the king eggon the second of his name our king
why would you attack sanrixian like that
It's worse, I asked her to fact check the script
Anybody who's raised a German Shepherd, Rottweiler, Cane Corso, Doberman etc etc,
Knows exactly what these dragon riders were dealing with...
14:07 what's the deal with the dog and the robot?
A lack of good stock image options for dog training
@JoeMagician lol, I actually meant like is it real, or cgi, or just a dude in a costume?
Aren’t the dragons Targaryens that died?
That's a theory I've talked about in he past, just tinfoil though.
14:38 Zelda Ocarina of Time
The way it was depicted in the show was not in line with the book lore. Aemond did not accidentally kill Luke.
If you read the book, you should know that you are wrong. We have no POV of either Aemond or Luke in this scene. We only know what the maesters know, . Aemond will not admit that he could not control the dragon, so everyone will think that he killed Luke on purpose, based on the conflict in Storm's End
George has said the show is Canon.
kin slayer
I do not understand how dragons benefit from the rider. It doesn't seem to make sense for them to follow tiny scaleless walking worms.
Actually my bad 😒 somehow my subscibe to you fell off. Unclear how since you are/were a go to during GOT.
How dare RUclips commit such a foul crime!
666th like!
Not that it's important, I just thought it was neat.
It is neat, thank you for slamming that like button
It's really messed up, this whole thing. First off, there is NO debt owed as Aemond himself declared an eye for that dragon a fair trade. He cannot now say otherwise. It matters because... magics! Listening to Fire and Blood, it really sounds like most of the dragons are sick of the bond. A bond can also mean slavery. O! Sigils-these are not the same as a coat of arms etc...they ARE magical emblems. Magical symbols like picture runes. When paired with their Words they become a sort of incantation or spell. That's just what those words mean together and I am assuming that is the point that the author is making. And wargs ARE Familiars. I'm pretty sure these characters, most of them are NOT human. The Realms of Men are not ALL Realms, apparently.
The dichotomy of the Targaryens declaring a dragon is no slave while also using slavers whips on the dragons is not lost on me for sure.
@@JoeMagician It's just so...almost crazy? Once one of those pieces how it all starts to fall in. SO many of these bonds are also magical slavery. It's literally everywhere! It's like the bond started with trust and went to total shite...real hatred.