I am a firm believer that one of the most important things you can do is get your suspension dialed in. I took Jeff's advice and sent my (23 300XC) suspension to Factory Suspension Works in CO for a rear spring and re-valve the air fork. Dramatic improvement! Would still like to try out some of Jeff's Lucky set-ups but as a working stiff it's just not in the budget.
Thanks Jeff, I was a reentry rider in 1997 had been riding street. Went to Baja on XR400 it was scary understeer big time, 2023 getting ready to do the TAT XR650L understeer again.Baja had tail bag on the bike looking back knowing what I know now that was the problem, Same with the XRL with bags in the rear. I think it is important to check weight basis, use a scale check the front and rear weight should be pretty close on both sides, I hear 48% Front and 52% rear - but now I am going wingnut I know. I used a Harbor Freight MC jack in the center and just got it to balance like the old scales at the doctors office, just adding tool bag with tube on front fender it weight 5lbs and fixed the problem. Hard to believe just 5lbs made the bike behave.
After trying, testing and re-valving a lot of things on my 20 300 I dropped in Jeff's Mule Lucky cartridges and National shock with the correct springs and for the technical mountain single track/rocks and roots/fast and flowing all the above I ride I don't think t could be any better. Thanks Jeff your Mule valving is perfect.
Agreed. Production was very good. I didn’t mind the other videos either though… Jeff doing Jeff stuff, certain charm to it. The content is more important. 😁
Would like to learn if there differences in springs other than spring rate. Are there different qualities? What advantages or disadvantages are there for progressive rate springs? Love the videos!
Hello: About 90% of the springs we sell are made in Europe by the same vendor KTM uses. A few odd sizes and applications we have made in the USA. We only sell high quality springs and we are the only motorcycle company on the planet that puts a lifetime guarantee on the springs. I have a video in the queue about springs. Stay tuned.
Hi Jeff, firstly, thanks for these videos. They are all excellent. Your recent one about preload was very helpful. Do you have any specific advice regarding the 70 degree engine husabergs, regarding balance and setup? Cheers
Hello: I have tuned many Berg suspensions and setting them up is no different than a KTM. However, they are usually under-sprung for the average bear (165-187 with all gear) in stock form.
Spot on. People often straight into revalve and inserts, sprung conversions, etc… before even addressing the basics. I set the sag on my 23 300SX and didn’t touch a clicker till about 10hrs. What would you recommend for the AER pressure when going up/down on the rear spring? There’s no direct correlation as such unfortunately but figured out 0.2bar was about one spring rate. Found the stock 10.5bar ok… tried from 10.0 to 10.8. The latter to balance +1 rear spring with preload to give +5mm on rider sag. Last setup was ok on fast Baja type stuff but after 160km cross country GNCC type ride I was pretty beat up. 🥴🥵😅 Went back to 10.5 and made a mental note to take the 300EXC next time. Long way on an SX. 🥴😅
Hello: You have two issues causing your suspension to beat you up. Too much air and the valving is WAY too stiff. You're trying to find an air pressure sweet spot and that is not going to happen until you correct the valving issue.
@@slaverace1 thanks Jeff. I’d tend to agree, I’ve always ridden enduro (EXC) setups and this is my first year riding an SX machine. Ive been persevering with it and now started trying different setting windows. 8/10x it’s great, 2/10x I wish I’d bought the 300XC. 🤪😅 No getting away from the fact that it’s a stiff stack and even opening the clickers, it’s still stiffer later in the range. Trying to get myself to meet it in the middle. It’s definitely better in the dunes with the big g-outs. The AER fork works great for that. My EXC was set up for the desert but it was more like a PDS XC with cones on it, could ride through bricks. Still on the compliant side. Depends what you’re used to… SX die heads thought it was too soft. 😅 Could’ve saved myself some pain dropping some air and a couple of clicks to “comfort” settings… but I’m saving myself a whole load more on the next one by prepping the EXC… as it’s 200km and comes out the desert through the coastal mountain trails down onto the beach where we’ll camp. The SX can sit this one out. 🥴😅😅 Not going to be going onto KTMHUSKYGG bookface complaining my bike’s too stiff and AER is crap because I bought the wrong bike for the type of riding. Going to own it and manage it. 😂 Thanks for taking the time to respond and for putting out those videos. Your stuff’s been very useful over the years, particularly if you like to get your hands dirty. 🫡🙏😎 Particularly the starter motor one for the 12-16 EXC/XC-W… what an awful appendage that system is on an otherwise great bike. 🐶💩😅 Still got that 15 300, it’s still a great bike. 😎
Thanks Jeff! I am leaning towards your MXT Lucky (Mule) for my WP Explorer forks, with a re-spring for my weight of 210lbs, geared up, on my 22 500 EXCF. Obviously going to re-spring the rear as well, but my primary complaint about my rear is the pounding my 63 year old lower back takes on wash boarded FS roads between trails. I know, stand up, but sometimes these roads can be pretty long. Wondering what might improve this washboard performance best, an all out change to the National Shock, with its incredible adjustability, or just re-valving the stock? My trails are generally just tougher two track, rocky Arizona desert.
Hello: The National slavensracing.com/shop/slavens-mule-national-shock-mxt/ would blow your mind. A but a good revalve will help but not in the same ballpark as the National. You install them, ride and smile. No adjustments needed and your back will be very happy.
@@slaverace1Yes indeed, I've got the MX tech lucky cartridges, and the MX tech National shock, mule valving, installed. Unbelievable difference. I know these things can be subjective, but me and my friend with his 2022 500 EXC-F have ridden the same section of extremely rough road side by side switching bikes. Omg! This section of two track would actually rattle my teeth on his stock bike, I don't even feel it on my bike now. By the way, I've done a complete install video for the cartridges with some of the little details that I didn't find in any online videos to help even a novice do the install. ruclips.net/video/8Kph9BIPHaU/видео.htmlsi=j8qzcdS3CXuqx1OF
Great video! But how can you tell if you are balanced outside of the under or oversteer condition (I think my bike tracks pretty well)? Is it possible to figure this out by standing stationary on the pegs and compressing the suspension or by pushing down on the center of the seat and seeing if both the front and rear compress in a balanced form? Reason I ask is that my 2018 TE300 always seems to squat more in the rear by a good amount compared to the front. That would be by pushing on the front portion of the seat at the tank or standing stationary on the pegs and bouncing. I am within the stock range and my sag is set to the recommended squat. Whereas my 2024 KTM 500 seems better balanced by doing the same. Just seems harsher than the 300 on the tight stuff but that is a different story/question. Thanks!!
Hello Brian: Sounds like your 2018 TE shock may have issues. If you sit in the middle of the bike, above the footpegs, hold the front brake and use your weight to partially compress the suspension, it should go down and up in a level manner. If you don't hold the brake, the back will compress more than the front.
Thanks, @@slaverace1 - I wasn't holding the front brake! I get it now. Appreciate it. I'll be looking for options to soften up the 500 for the tight stuff.
Hi Jeff, I took all your suggestions for my 690 and changed the spring rate out front and rear (balanced) for my weight & gear. Purchased the springs and the your recommended Motorex fork oil at 2.5W from SR and installed it all with the fork preload adjuster spacers removed. What a dream... it's feels like having an additional 2 inches of stiction free travel! 🙂 Thank you! My question is about compression damping. On really bad washboard, I still feel like it is rather harsh.... Should I just back off the compression damping until it feels like a sofa or would you recommend something more of a compromise? How would you describe how you think it should feel? Thanks!
Hello Titanium Dude: 690s have a very stiff frame, very stiff fork tubes and very stiff compression valving. That adds up to a non-compliant ride on trail trash, washboards and square edge obstacles. You can turn the clickers until the cows come home or until the fat lady sings and they will never have the compliance you are looking for. The only real fix is to have the forks revalved. The only suspension guy I know (I know a lot of them) who really does a nice job on that bike is Greg at www.factorysuspensionworks.com.
Curious what year 690? Does it have XPlor or the older Apex forks? I have a '23 Husky 701 with XPlor forks, which felt unbalanced with a pretty correct feeling shock spring and way too soft fork springs, it was front end heavy stinkbug city. I suppose the rear spring is stiff for passengers or all the junk people strap to the bike for ADV riding, but I never do any of that. For now I simply dropped in stiffer .65 fork springs and it is much better and more balanced. I have to crank the rebound adjuster to a stiff setting to help with controlling the stiffer springs, and while much better overall, the forks can still be harsh on repeated hits such as washboard you mentioned. Will probably have them revalved by Greg as Jeff suggested. The spring swap to get the forks up on the right part of their stroke helped a lot by getting it balanced and steering better, and the springs were needed in my estimation. I have no real complaints with the shock after setting sag and clickers, other than it looks like a real PITA to get out of there 😆
@@craighoffman6876 Mine's a 2016 with the 4860 fork. I calculated my weight at 250 lbs with all my gear, rack and tail bag (bunch of heavy stuff in my gallon Rottweiler storage) and went with the .62 fork springs. I think you're spot on in your assessment of being in the right part of the stroke. I'd say for me, the same thing applied with the shock once I put the proper spring rate in for my weight. I'm no expert, but I attribute most of it to having suspension travel for my weight without having to do much in the way of pre-load. That's where I think I scored the great added plushness. (Other than washboard... but even the washboard is now way better.) When I changed the shock spring I added the X-trig preload adjuster. That was also a major win. Getting the X-trig in the right orientation for access was more tricky than getting the shock in and out. Needed to take the shock to a shop for spring compression though... (Also the 690 doesn't have a linkage system.) All this was by far the best money I've spent on my 690.
@@titaniumgear690 Nice! That sounds like a great setup. I knew I had a fork spring problem when riding on an inadvisably rough single track trail with repeated braking bumps. The fork bounced like a pogo stick, I kept cranking the compression and it felt better until it was full stiff and I wanted more. With the heavier springs I'm running normal compression setting of about 20 clicks out. The fork is working "good enough" at this point and the bike feels considerably lighter with less sag in the fork. I ride a lot of rocky 4x4 trails here in Colorado and it actually works pretty well in those at the speeds I ride this type of bike at. Once the sag was set with the clickers at the "sport" settings I honestly don't notice the shock at all, which is good.The biggest problem with these bikes is they can suck you into thinking they are dirt bikes. I've been in a few "situations" as a result 😆 I also own a KTM 300 XC for actual dirt biking, the 701 is a fantastic dual sport / exploration machine. We have lots of 4x4 trails I wouldn't ordinarily truck my dirt bike to, but they are fun to ride to and explore on the 701, some of the trails are super scenic.
What’s your advice for mid weight adventure bikes? I need to respring my 890 adventure r, but I may be riding aggressive off-road one time or making my way to a remote camp site with 50+ extra pounds on board.
Hey Jeff, is it possible to have a heavier spring in the shock than the forks and be balanced? Example would be 245lb geared rider with a 51 shock spring and a 48 fork spring.
You should spring the bike for the same weight front and rear for the bike to be balanced. Shoot us an email or give us a call with your year, make, and model and we can confirm if your bike is sprung correctly.
Im pretty new to riding and getting the suspension dialed in is pretty costly especially with bike prices now so unfortunately the suspension is going to have to wait. I see the rear spring i need is only about $150, around how much on average to get the front done?
Front springs are around $100 and easily changed. All you really need on a stock bike is the right springs for your weight and learn to ride the bike. Then when you can understand the suspension more revalving may be something more to look into.
Hello: The guy below, twowheelsintransit, is correct except inflation has surpassed his price estimate. Fork springs are about $140 per pair for quality springs, slavensracing.com/?s=fork+springs&post_type=product.
put the stock KTM shock spring in on previously owned 2018 bike and it failed, percussed a spring from race Tech that was suggested for my weight without gear and it failed. 4.6-4.4 are the options, pissed another $160 dollars away as without gear I weigh 166
We offer a large selection of high quality KTM/Husqvarna/Husaberg/WP shock springs. All springs are manufactured in Europe or the U.S.A. (NONE from Asia) to meet our standards and specifications. One year guarantee against breakage.
Hello: All forks have preload spacer options, not just WPs on KTM brands. 5mm is considered a neutral setting and is what works well for most applications.
Hello: Leave it stock or do it right. You will not be able to get it into balance and if you slide the tubes up too far, the tire will hit the fender and lock up before the suspension bottoms.
I would love to see a video on how to correctly set up rebound and compression correctly. How do you set it up correctly when not just using the settings in the manual. For example if you take 6 clicks of compression out of the forks, what change should you make to rebound?
I haven't ridden for a few years because all the places to go dried up. I might try to get into it again in the summer. If my weight has changed since then and I need to order new springs, will the external adjusters be able to compensate for the change or do I need to send my forks and shock in for internal revalving?
Hello: The factory rebound circuit can handle a wide range of spring rates, however the stock compression valving is harsh and can only be corrected internally. Regards, JS
Hello: That's a complicated and controversial topic and it gets down to field testing to determine what works best for you and your application. I've tried 18mm, 20mm and 22mm on KTM's over the years with mixed results. Here is a link to an MXA article that might help or might just create more questions >>> motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-about-triple-clamp-offset/ .
I've never weighed with gear on, guessing plus 20 lbs.?? That would put me at about 205. Is that far enough over to warrant heavier springs and does it really make a significant difference? I'm not a racer, 69yo trail rider.
Wouldn't you just put more air pressure in the front forks to balance an over sized spring in the rear? Or is it not that simple 🤔. Also 23 300Xc just check my sag for the first time 1 year after owning the bike and it was 120mm no wonder i can't corner on the mx lol
So here’s a question for you. I am a new rider and short. I have a 1” lowering link for the rear. Is it good practice to lower the front end with the clamps 1” at the same time? I don’t have the money for new suspension yet that will have to wait a few months but is the ultimate plan in the end.
Hello: I'm not a fan of lowering links. They are a Mickey Mouse solution. Yes, the front suspension needs addressed as the bike is very out of balance now. Sliding the tubes up in the clamps 1" is another bad idea but go for it if that is your only current option.
@@slaverace1 thanks for the reply. Unfortunately this is my only option at the moment till I can save up for the suspension to be addressed properly. I am trying to go as little as I can to not throw the bike out of wack to bad. Hopefully this is just a fix for a few months till i have the money to have the suspension total set up properly for my size and weight.
I weigh 160lbs, and with all my gear/ backpack, I come in around 180 lbs. I am not sure if I need a different spring on my 2024 501s? I also ride a 300XC. Suspension setup has always been like black magic to me.
Whats your experience with 24 300 ktms? I checked k-tech spring rate recomenndations and it actually suggest for my 90kg body to go softer than stock on front and stiffer in the back. Which really goes against your suggestion of not just swapping the rear spring. In this case I'd be swapping both but in opposite directions so its even further from stock balance.
Hello: Sounds like K-Tech has some incorrect information listed. Going softer on one end and firmer on the other does not make sense. Please refer to our spring charts. Fork springs slavensracing.com/shop/fork-springs-wp48mm-44mm-x-470mm/ Progressive shock springs: slavensracing.com/shop/shock-springs-17-ktm-excxcw6d/ Straight rate shock springs: slavensracing.com/shop/shock-springs-straight-rate-for-24-ktm-pds-linkless/
Now it's your weight and gear, used to be just your weight to get the proper spring rate. Just use preload to adjust for gear which can change based on what riding you are doing. Like larger backpack or some saddle bags, different boots, winter gear or summer gear. I bought springs from Slavens back in 2016 using their chart for a new bike based on my body weight and they were definitely better than stock. Had suspension rebuilt and valved about 3 years ago and they retained the springs in the fork but changed out the rear spring for a progressive instead of straight rate that I had then did all their voodoo stuff. A big improvement in comfort and handling, unfortunately they are now out of business ☹. They never asked about gear weight. 10lb for boots, 15-20 for hydration pack with tools and some other crap, helmet 3.5lb, chest protector/knee braces another 10 lb.. That's a whole spring rate higher.
I bought one of those Motool sag devices. I hate to sound like a commercial but it really is awesome. Makes it so easy that I now check it regularly whereas I used to check it like once a year....maybe.
@@chopperz127 Yeah, I did too. Drill a very small hole just slightly larger than the diameter of the hook in the fender. Can’t even see it but makes it super convenient and consistent. I’m checking the sag by myself most of the time so pretty much had to have it.
I bought stiffer proper spring rates from him, I asked if I should get rear spring rate 1 stiffer than front, he said no... guess what, bike handles like crap, I bought 1 rate stiffer rear then it handles good. He talked me out of what was right. Jeff is wrong!
Hello Ryan: Thank you for your purchases but first let's clarify your story. I'm seldom in the office these days and I never take customer phone calls about spring rates, so I did not speak with you as stated. I don't know any of your details (bike brand,model,size, your weight, etc.) so I can't address your issue. Our spring rate charts (from the KTM factory) are very accurate when accurate rider information is used. If you want to discuss this further or feel like you need resolution, please contact me via email at jeff@slavensracing.com.
Спорт
I am a firm believer that one of the most important things you can do is get your suspension dialed in. I took Jeff's advice and sent my (23 300XC) suspension to Factory Suspension Works in CO for a rear spring and re-valve the air fork. Dramatic improvement! Would still like to try out some of Jeff's Lucky set-ups but as a working stiff it's just not in the budget.
Absolutely. What did you go for with the revalve and how you getting on with the 23 AER?
Got the 23 300SX, love them and my EXC runs spring cones.
Love the new video style! Finally get to see the man who's typically behind the camera!
Thank you!
Thanks Jeff. From Australia with my 525 and 300exc's 👍
You're welcome. Keep riding upside down while down under.
Thanks Jeff, I was a reentry rider in 1997 had been riding street. Went to Baja on XR400 it was scary understeer big time, 2023 getting ready to do the TAT XR650L understeer again.Baja had tail bag on the bike looking back knowing what I know now that was the problem, Same with the XRL with bags in the rear. I think it is important to check weight basis, use a scale check the front and rear weight should be pretty close on both sides, I hear 48% Front and 52% rear - but now I am going wingnut I know. I used a Harbor Freight MC jack in the center and just got it to balance like the old scales at the doctors office, just adding tool bag with tube on front fender it weight 5lbs and fixed the problem. Hard to believe just 5lbs made the bike behave.
Jeff, you gotta say,… “Yeah, well that’s just, like, your opinion man.”
After trying, testing and re-valving a lot of things on my 20 300 I dropped in Jeff's Mule Lucky cartridges and National shock with the correct springs and for the technical mountain single track/rocks and roots/fast and flowing all the above I ride I don't think t could be any better. Thanks Jeff your Mule valving is perfect.
Thank you, Jack!
Jack:
You're not getting any younger, it's time to step up to the complete Raven forks. They are another level above what you currently have.
JS
Loving the quality videos!
Thank you.
I miss seeing cat walking through the video. It reminded me of my garage :)@@slaverace1
Stepping it up on the video production Sir, great vid.
Thank you!
Agreed. Production was very good. I didn’t mind the other videos either though… Jeff doing Jeff stuff, certain charm to it. The content is more important. 😁
Had to subscribe, love the suspension stuff, still learning.
Thanks for the sub!
Great video Jeff, can't wait to build something smaller then the 1090 and start doing the stickier stuff!
I wish I had something as small and nimble as a 1090. I stuff my R1200GSA anywhere I can fit it but it sure is a workout. lol
Thank you.
Thanks Jeff!
You're welcome.
Thanks Jeff
You're welcome.
Would like to learn if there differences in springs other than spring rate. Are there different qualities? What advantages or disadvantages are there for progressive rate springs? Love the videos!
Hello:
About 90% of the springs we sell are made in Europe by the same vendor KTM uses. A few odd sizes and applications we have made in the USA. We only sell high quality springs and we are the only motorcycle company on the planet that puts a lifetime guarantee on the springs.
I have a video in the queue about springs. Stay tuned.
Hi Jeff, firstly, thanks for these videos. They are all excellent. Your recent one about preload was very helpful.
Do you have any specific advice regarding the 70 degree engine husabergs, regarding balance and setup?
Cheers
Hello:
I have tuned many Berg suspensions and setting them up is no different than a KTM. However, they are usually under-sprung for the average bear (165-187 with all gear) in stock form.
Jeff ,can you please give us a refresher on straight wound vs progressive .Thanks.
It's in the queue. Please stay tuned.
Spot on. People often straight into revalve and inserts, sprung conversions, etc… before even addressing the basics. I set the sag on my 23 300SX and didn’t touch a clicker till about 10hrs.
What would you recommend for the AER pressure when going up/down on the rear spring?
There’s no direct correlation as such unfortunately but figured out 0.2bar was about one spring rate. Found the stock 10.5bar ok… tried from 10.0 to 10.8. The latter to balance +1 rear spring with preload to give +5mm on rider sag.
Last setup was ok on fast Baja type stuff but after 160km cross country GNCC type ride I was pretty beat up. 🥴🥵😅 Went back to 10.5 and made a mental note to take the 300EXC next time. Long way on an SX. 🥴😅
Hello:
You have two issues causing your suspension to beat you up. Too much air and the valving is WAY too stiff. You're trying to find an air pressure sweet spot and that is not going to happen until you correct the valving issue.
@@slaverace1 thanks Jeff. I’d tend to agree, I’ve always ridden enduro (EXC) setups and this is my first year riding an SX machine. Ive been persevering with it and now started trying different setting windows. 8/10x it’s great, 2/10x I wish I’d bought the 300XC. 🤪😅
No getting away from the fact that it’s a stiff stack and even opening the clickers, it’s still stiffer later in the range. Trying to get myself to meet it in the middle. It’s definitely better in the dunes with the big g-outs. The AER fork works great for that.
My EXC was set up for the desert but it was more like a PDS XC with cones on it, could ride through bricks. Still on the compliant side. Depends what you’re used to… SX die heads thought it was too soft. 😅
Could’ve saved myself some pain dropping some air and a couple of clicks to “comfort” settings… but I’m saving myself a whole load more on the next one by prepping the EXC… as it’s 200km and comes out the desert through the coastal mountain trails down onto the beach where we’ll camp. The SX can sit this one out. 🥴😅😅
Not going to be going onto KTMHUSKYGG bookface complaining my bike’s too stiff and AER is crap because I bought the wrong bike for the type of riding. Going to own it and manage it. 😂
Thanks for taking the time to respond and for putting out those videos. Your stuff’s been very useful over the years, particularly if you like to get your hands dirty. 🫡🙏😎
Particularly the starter motor one for the 12-16 EXC/XC-W… what an awful appendage that system is on an otherwise great bike. 🐶💩😅 Still got that 15 300, it’s still a great bike. 😎
Thanks Jeff! I am leaning towards your MXT Lucky (Mule) for my WP Explorer forks, with a re-spring for my weight of 210lbs, geared up, on my 22 500 EXCF. Obviously going to re-spring the rear as well, but my primary complaint about my rear is the pounding my 63 year old lower back takes on wash boarded FS roads between trails. I know, stand up, but sometimes these roads can be pretty long. Wondering what might improve this washboard performance best, an all out change to the National Shock, with its incredible adjustability, or just re-valving the stock? My trails are generally just tougher two track, rocky Arizona desert.
Hello:
The National slavensracing.com/shop/slavens-mule-national-shock-mxt/ would blow your mind. A but a good revalve will help but not in the same ballpark as the National. You install them, ride and smile. No adjustments needed and your back will be very happy.
@@slaverace1Yes indeed, I've got the MX tech lucky cartridges, and the MX tech National shock, mule valving, installed. Unbelievable difference. I know these things can be subjective, but me and my friend with his 2022 500 EXC-F have ridden the same section of extremely rough road side by side switching bikes. Omg! This section of two track would actually rattle my teeth on his stock bike, I don't even feel it on my bike now. By the way, I've done a complete install video for the cartridges with some of the little details that I didn't find in any online videos to help even a novice do the install. ruclips.net/video/8Kph9BIPHaU/видео.htmlsi=j8qzcdS3CXuqx1OF
Great video! But how can you tell if you are balanced outside of the under or oversteer condition (I think my bike tracks pretty well)? Is it possible to figure this out by standing stationary on the pegs and compressing the suspension or by pushing down on the center of the seat and seeing if both the front and rear compress in a balanced form? Reason I ask is that my 2018 TE300 always seems to squat more in the rear by a good amount compared to the front. That would be by pushing on the front portion of the seat at the tank or standing stationary on the pegs and bouncing. I am within the stock range and my sag is set to the recommended squat. Whereas my 2024 KTM 500 seems better balanced by doing the same. Just seems harsher than the 300 on the tight stuff but that is a different story/question. Thanks!!
Hello Brian:
Sounds like your 2018 TE shock may have issues. If you sit in the middle of the bike, above the footpegs, hold the front brake and use your weight to partially compress the suspension, it should go down and up in a level manner. If you don't hold the brake, the back will compress more than the front.
Thanks, @@slaverace1 - I wasn't holding the front brake! I get it now. Appreciate it. I'll be looking for options to soften up the 500 for the tight stuff.
Hi Jeff, I took all your suggestions for my 690 and changed the spring rate out front and rear (balanced) for my weight & gear. Purchased the springs and the your recommended Motorex fork oil at 2.5W from SR and installed it all with the fork preload adjuster spacers removed.
What a dream... it's feels like having an additional 2 inches of stiction free travel! 🙂 Thank you!
My question is about compression damping. On really bad washboard, I still feel like it is rather harsh.... Should I just back off the compression damping until it feels like a sofa or would you recommend something more of a compromise? How would you describe how you think it should feel? Thanks!
Hello Titanium Dude:
690s have a very stiff frame, very stiff fork tubes and very stiff compression valving. That adds up to a non-compliant ride on trail trash, washboards and square edge obstacles. You can turn the clickers until the cows come home or until the fat lady sings and they will never have the compliance you are looking for. The only real fix is to have the forks revalved. The only suspension guy I know (I know a lot of them) who really does a nice job on that bike is Greg at www.factorysuspensionworks.com.
Thanks Jeff... that's some great advice! I'll put Greg on my to-do list... @@slaverace1
Curious what year 690? Does it have XPlor or the older Apex forks?
I have a '23 Husky 701 with XPlor forks, which felt unbalanced with a pretty correct feeling shock spring and way too soft fork springs, it was front end heavy stinkbug city. I suppose the rear spring is stiff for passengers or all the junk people strap to the bike for ADV riding, but I never do any of that.
For now I simply dropped in stiffer .65 fork springs and it is much better and more balanced. I have to crank the rebound adjuster to a stiff setting to help with controlling the stiffer springs, and while much better overall, the forks can still be harsh on repeated hits such as washboard you mentioned. Will probably have them revalved by Greg as Jeff suggested. The spring swap to get the forks up on the right part of their stroke helped a lot by getting it balanced and steering better, and the springs were needed in my estimation.
I have no real complaints with the shock after setting sag and clickers, other than it looks like a real PITA to get out of there 😆
@@craighoffman6876 Mine's a 2016 with the 4860 fork. I calculated my weight at 250 lbs with all my gear, rack and tail bag (bunch of heavy stuff in my gallon Rottweiler storage) and went with the .62 fork springs. I think you're spot on in your assessment of being in the right part of the stroke. I'd say for me, the same thing applied with the shock once I put the proper spring rate in for my weight.
I'm no expert, but I attribute most of it to having suspension travel for my weight without having to do much in the way of pre-load. That's where I think I scored the great added plushness. (Other than washboard... but even the washboard is now way better.)
When I changed the shock spring I added the X-trig preload adjuster. That was also a major win. Getting the X-trig in the right orientation for access was more tricky than getting the shock in and out. Needed to take the shock to a shop for spring compression though... (Also the 690 doesn't have a linkage system.)
All this was by far the best money I've spent on my 690.
@@titaniumgear690 Nice! That sounds like a great setup.
I knew I had a fork spring problem when riding on an inadvisably rough single track trail with repeated braking bumps. The fork bounced like a pogo stick, I kept cranking the compression and it felt better until it was full stiff and I wanted more. With the heavier springs I'm running normal compression setting of about 20 clicks out.
The fork is working "good enough" at this point and the bike feels considerably lighter with less sag in the fork. I ride a lot of rocky 4x4 trails here in Colorado and it actually works pretty well in those at the speeds I ride this type of bike at. Once the sag was set with the clickers at the "sport" settings I honestly don't notice the shock at all, which is good.The biggest problem with these bikes is they can suck you into thinking they are dirt bikes. I've been in a few "situations" as a result 😆
I also own a KTM 300 XC for actual dirt biking, the 701 is a fantastic dual sport / exploration machine. We have lots of 4x4 trails I wouldn't ordinarily truck my dirt bike to, but they are fun to ride to and explore on the 701, some of the trails are super scenic.
What’s your advice for mid weight adventure bikes? I need to respring my 890 adventure r, but I may be riding aggressive off-road one time or making my way to a remote camp site with 50+ extra pounds on board.
This applies to all KTM brand dirt bikes and adventure bikes.
Hey Jeff, is it possible to have a heavier spring in the shock than the forks and be balanced? Example would be 245lb geared rider with a 51 shock spring and a 48 fork spring.
You should spring the bike for the same weight front and rear for the bike to be balanced. Shoot us an email or give us a call with your year, make, and model and we can confirm if your bike is sprung correctly.
Im pretty new to riding and getting the suspension dialed in is pretty costly especially with bike prices now so unfortunately the suspension is going to have to wait. I see the rear spring i need is only about $150, around how much on average to get the front done?
Front springs are around $100 and easily changed. All you really need on a stock bike is the right springs for your weight and learn to ride the bike. Then when you can understand the suspension more revalving may be something more to look into.
Hello:
The guy below, twowheelsintransit, is correct except inflation has surpassed his price estimate. Fork springs are about $140 per pair for quality springs, slavensracing.com/?s=fork+springs&post_type=product.
put the stock KTM shock spring in on previously owned 2018 bike and it failed, percussed a spring from race Tech that was suggested for my weight without gear and it failed. 4.6-4.4 are the options, pissed another $160 dollars away as without gear I weigh 166
We offer a large selection of high quality KTM/Husqvarna/Husaberg/WP shock springs. All springs are manufactured in Europe or the U.S.A. (NONE from Asia) to meet our standards and specifications. One year guarantee against breakage.
What do you think about fork preload? Specifically KTMs brands with the 0mm, 3mm, 6mm options?
Hello:
All forks have preload spacer options, not just WPs on KTM brands. 5mm is considered a neutral setting and is what works well for most applications.
I’m gona fit a lowering link on my beta 125 rr factory ( coz I’m short) will raising forks in clamps bring bike back into some sort of balance?
Hello:
Leave it stock or do it right. You will not be able to get it into balance and if you slide the tubes up too far, the tire will hit the fender and lock up before the suspension bottoms.
I would love to see a video on how to correctly set up rebound and compression correctly. How do you set it up correctly when not just using the settings in the manual. For example if you take 6 clicks of compression out of the forks, what change should you make to rebound?
Hello:
I have a video in the queue that will be out in a few weeks. Stay tuned.
I haven't ridden for a few years because all the places to go dried up. I might try to get into it again in the summer. If my weight has changed since then and I need to order new springs, will the external adjusters be able to compensate for the change or do I need to send my forks and shock in for internal revalving?
Hello:
The factory rebound circuit can handle a wide range of spring rates, however the stock compression valving is harsh and can only be corrected internally.
Regards,
JS
No stock suspension remains on any of my KTMs, all were either upgraded by Slavens or someone else, and my 300 woods bike has Olins.
How does a triple clamp with and adjustable offset between 20 degrees and 22 degrees change things ? What’s it do?
Hello:
That's a complicated and controversial topic and it gets down to field testing to determine what works best for you and your application. I've tried 18mm, 20mm and 22mm on KTM's over the years with mixed results. Here is a link to an MXA article that might help or might just create more questions >>> motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-about-triple-clamp-offset/ .
I've never weighed with gear on, guessing plus 20 lbs.?? That would put me at about 205. Is that far enough over to warrant heavier springs and does it really make a significant difference? I'm not a racer, 69yo trail rider.
Yes, if you weigh over 165-187lbs then you will need to re spring.
Wouldn't you just put more air pressure in the front forks to balance an over sized spring in the rear? Or is it not that simple 🤔. Also 23 300Xc just check my sag for the first time 1 year after owning the bike and it was 120mm no wonder i can't corner on the mx lol
I have the same question about my 23 350xcf.
If you are running AER forks you would just need a shock spring and add or subtract air depending on your weight for the AER forks.
@@slaverace1 thank you sir
The dude abides
So here’s a question for you. I am a new rider and short. I have a 1” lowering link for the rear. Is it good practice to lower the front end with the clamps 1” at the same time? I don’t have the money for new suspension yet that will have to wait a few months but is the ultimate plan in the end.
Hello:
I'm not a fan of lowering links. They are a Mickey Mouse solution. Yes, the front suspension needs addressed as the bike is very out of balance now. Sliding the tubes up in the clamps 1" is another bad idea but go for it if that is your only current option.
@@slaverace1 thanks for the reply. Unfortunately this is my only option at the moment till I can save up for the suspension to be addressed properly. I am trying to go as little as I can to not throw the bike out of wack to bad. Hopefully this is just a fix for a few months till i have the money to have the suspension total set up properly for my size and weight.
I weigh 160lbs, and with all my gear/ backpack, I come in around 180 lbs. I am not sure if I need a different spring on my 2024 501s? I also ride a 300XC. Suspension setup has always been like black magic to me.
All KTM, Husqvarna, GASGAS, and Husaberg's are sprung for a 165-187lb rider from the factory. You are good to go with stock spring rates.
@slaverace1 Thank you for the response. Well, being skinny, my whole life actually paid off for once.
About SAG, for enduro, hardenduro or MX, what should we do?
I covered that in the video. Do you have further questions not addressed in the video?
I watched the video twice and didn't hear any reference to SAG at all, unless you are referring to the upcoming video about preload???
@@slaverace1
@@slaverace1 what sag should I use for enduro 110mm and 120mm for hardenduro?
Whats your experience with 24 300 ktms? I checked k-tech spring rate recomenndations and it actually suggest for my 90kg body to go softer than stock on front and stiffer in the back. Which really goes against your suggestion of not just swapping the rear spring. In this case I'd be swapping both but in opposite directions so its even further from stock balance.
Hello:
Sounds like K-Tech has some incorrect information listed. Going softer on one end and firmer on the other does not make sense. Please refer to our spring charts.
Fork springs slavensracing.com/shop/fork-springs-wp48mm-44mm-x-470mm/
Progressive shock springs: slavensracing.com/shop/shock-springs-17-ktm-excxcw6d/
Straight rate shock springs: slavensracing.com/shop/shock-springs-straight-rate-for-24-ktm-pds-linkless/
Can you explain undamper, over damped, and critically damper, thanks.
Hello:
That's an unusual request and I have no idea what you are hoping to accomplish. Please elaborate.
I hear suspension engineers talk about the shocks being under, over, or critically damped. Just wounding what that means and if you could explain it.
Does anyone check front shock sag?
Usually no. Please stay tuned for an upcoming video on that subject.
Now it's your weight and gear, used to be just your weight to get the proper spring rate. Just use preload to adjust for gear which can change based on what riding you are doing. Like larger backpack or some saddle bags, different boots, winter gear or summer gear. I bought springs from Slavens back in 2016 using their chart for a new bike based on my body weight and they were definitely better than stock. Had suspension rebuilt and valved about 3 years ago and they retained the springs in the fork but changed out the rear spring for a progressive instead of straight rate that I had then did all their voodoo stuff. A big improvement in comfort and handling, unfortunately they are now out of business ☹. They never asked about gear weight. 10lb for boots, 15-20 for hydration pack with tools and some other crap, helmet 3.5lb, chest protector/knee braces another 10 lb.. That's a whole spring rate higher.
whats the link to the calculator?
What calculator?
I wouldn’t say go ride it even if you are within weight range. At least check the sag as most are off considerably.
I bought one of those Motool sag devices. I hate to sound like a commercial but it really is awesome. Makes it so easy that I now check it regularly whereas I used to check it like once a year....maybe.
@@chopperz127 Yeah, I did too. Drill a very small hole just slightly larger than the diameter of the hook in the fender. Can’t even see it but makes it super convenient and consistent. I’m checking the sag by myself most of the time so pretty much had to have it.
Kurt: Sorry, you must have fallen asleep during the video.
@@chopperz127
If you're happy, I'm happy, BUT checking your sag all the time is a waste of ride time, as I explained in the video.
@@slaverace1Didn’t fall asleep at all. You said if you buy a new bike and fall with 165-187 don’t touch it just go ride it.
the big lebowski
Dude!
I bought stiffer proper spring rates from him, I asked if I should get rear spring rate 1 stiffer than front, he said no... guess what, bike handles like crap, I bought 1 rate stiffer rear then it handles good. He talked me out of what was right. Jeff is wrong!
I’d bet a gagillion dollars your riding position is too far back
@@btomblin386 oh bullshit
Hello Ryan:
Thank you for your purchases but first let's clarify your story. I'm seldom in the office these days and I never take customer phone calls about spring rates, so I did not speak with you as stated.
I don't know any of your details (bike brand,model,size, your weight, etc.) so I can't address your issue. Our spring rate charts (from the KTM factory) are very accurate when accurate rider information is used.
If you want to discuss this further or feel like you need resolution, please contact me via email at jeff@slavensracing.com.