Your videos have been some of the most helpful I've ever found on RUclips! Thanks so much! Quick question though: When you're performing the calculations for your examples, how did you know to start with 4 of the X40's or 6 of the JM1P's when you had 8 available?
Thank you very much! I'm so glad they've been helpful to you. Great question. I started with one box, which gave me the lowest amount of listening plane length (coverage width from a single fill speaker). Then I increased it to two then looked to see if the listening plane length was even with or longer than my audience width. And I kept increasing it until it got close to 65ft.
Great video! Takes the mystery out of it lol. I have a unique question regarding "coverage". My boss has 4 EV QRX 115/75's. They come with a rotatable horn. 75H x 50V. Set from factory at 15 degrees up and 35 degrees down. He places them in pairs on each side of the stage side by side. He has taken the outer cab and turned the horn 90 degrees so that it points 37.5 degrees up, 37.5 down, 15 degrees inward, and 35 degrees outward. The difference vertically equates to, 2.5 degrees further downward than the cab beside it, 22.5 degrees further upward than the cab beside it. The difference horizontally is 15 degrees inward instead of 37.5 degrees, and 35 degrees outward instead of 37.5 degrees. Some big differences and some very small but legit changes. This video helped to explain some things for sure, but can you offer an opinion even on whether we are helping or hurting with overlapping and coverage by using these cabs this way? Thanks!
My opinion was that they were rotatable so you can hang them horizontally, or use them as monitors, WITHOUT screwing up the coverage pattern. One other question lol. If it's a problem with the cabs side by side, could there be a benefit if they were stacked one above the other?
Hi Michael! Great video, really helpful information like always. Do you have any video about how to do/route the mix for front fills? I have seen some guys grabbing a cable front the mains and just daisy-chain the main mix to the FF, I understand that’s not the best way to do it, I’m talking about FF mix for a band. By doing that you’ll get all the inputs in the FF, so how separate the inputs going to the FF without loosing the FOH processing? I’ll appreciate your help. Thanks!
Great question, Rober. You handle it one of two ways - one is from your console and assumes you do not have a system processor. The other assumes you have a system processor. If you're driving the system directly from your console, you would route your Main Mix to four matrices - Left, Right, Sub, Front Fill. Then use those separate outputs to feed each of those PA zones. If you're using a system processor after your desk, you'd feed in your LR mix into the processor, then have the processor do the same routing and division for your system.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio yea thanks, I can send the main mix to the matrices, but what if I don’t want all the channels from the main mix going to that matrix? Is it possible to take specific channels out of the FF mix? I’m driving the system from my console, A&H SQ, I’m just not quite sure if I can separate the channels going to the FF mix without loosing the main mix processing, how would you do that in your console, I appreciate your time to answer my questions!
I understand why you would need a fill in the front for situations where there is a lull in the coverage of the mains (such as between the two mains), but what is the reasoning of not having the main arrays cover the front (by more tilt down - more line array speakers - assuming available) when possible, when the front is in-line with the main? Also, in your example of adding fills all across the front... how do you handle the stage part of the front where your fill speaker would probably need to be at or below the stage height to not be in the way/view of the stage. This would then of course only be able to hit the 1st row since the 2nd row and beyond would be blocked by people, etc. Appreciate your videos!
Great questions here, Kendel. I've definitely been apart of both portable live events and installs where we didn't end up going with front fills and had the main array cover all the way to the front. The two main factors to consider are range ratio and imaging. Range ratio meaning is there a large discrepancy between how far the mains have to throw to the back vs the front row? If they're already working hard to pull that off I can lessen the load on the mains by having the front fills pick up some of that area. Like you mentioned, if I had more boxes available I could totally throw those on the main array, get more curvature, and cover to the front. As far as imaging goes, if the main PA is hung pretty high it feels awkward to be looking at the lead vocalist but hearing her from 30ft above your head. Having front fills may not necessarily be for SPL or coverage, but to draw your attention towards the stage as a listener. When dealing with awkward stage heights, that's a real bummer. If it's very low, like you mentioned we can only cover the first row. Bob McCarthy calls those "Foot Fills" : ). Then I have to engineer my mains to pick up from there. I'm doing a show next week where the stage is 3ft high but my downstage truss with the PA is in front of the stage, so I'm forced to use front fills. Thankfully the audience is seated almost 20ft away since the first 20ft of coverage will become the dance floor after the corporate presentation. My plan after the corporate portion is done is to throw my front fills on some black 2.5ft tall speaker cases so the front fills are high enough to be at head height and cover the dance floor appropriately. Going to try and make it look as clean as possible.
Hey Michael, great video. I went ahead and downloaded the Audio Math Survival Spreadsheet, was a lot to take in at first, but I'm getting the hang of it. I would really appreciate if you could make a dedicated video on how to use it, or just general descriptions. And this may be a big ask but, is it available in metric? Thank you! Also since you use the HDL 6s a lot, would really like to hear your opinion on Easy Shape designer by RCF that's part of the RDNET software.
Yes, a video detailing all of the calculations in my audio math survival spreadsheet is long overdue, for sure. It is on the docket and will be out by end of summer. It's not currently available in metric, but that's in the works as well. Although do really respect RCF Products, I'm not a fan of their particular Autosplay function (or anyone's for that matter). Maybe call me a control freak : ). I like to do as much as I possibly can to get the design right mechanically FIRST (choosing the right splay angles), THEN use processing to take it across the finish line. I'm just not sure how RCF's algorithm combines both the mechanical shape of the array as well as changing HF correction and other processing to get the desired outcome. I usually end up wanting to do more overshoot in my designs than most autosolvers want to do. I've also never used RDNet in the field. I use the HDL6-A's a lot which have built in FIR processing, but are not powered by RDNet (like their HDL26-A cousins are). So, it'd be a really cool comparison to hang a HDL6-A rig on the left side of a show, do my own process for designing, aligning, and tuning the rig. Then have a HDL26-A rig with the autosplay functions and RDNet taking care of things.
You may have covered this in another video, but I'm curious where you high pass your front fills typically? And second crazy question, how difficult is it to represent a stage that curves? In my case, the audience seating stays even with the curvature of the stage, so no difference in distance. But I imagine the 6db down points between speakers aren't going to be perfectly aligned as with a straight stage. Thoughts?
Thanks for the questions, Robert. I usually high pass my front fills at the same point as my mains so that the phase slope in the low end remains consistent and can couple with the subs the best. Usually 60, 80, or 100Hz depending on the mains speakers I'm working with. Danield Lundberg has created a wonderful resource (I'll put the link below) that does account for curved stages. I would have used it in this video, but he has not updated the app to work on Apple Silicon. If you have a windows machine or older Mac you can give it a go! www.lundbergsound.com/?p=268
It depends on your use case, but most of the QSC point sources will work (K12, K8, etc.). The RCF HDL6-A will also work. Just depends on the brands you like and budget.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio does co-axial stage monitor really get rid of the feedback on stage versus 2-way point source? Given you ring them out prior to the start of your live band set. Which one will give you a more gain before feedback? For reference, I'm looking at the RCF NX-912 SMA versus RCF NX-10 SMA.
Literally one of, if not the, best audio channels on RUclips. Very informative and easy to understand.
That's incredibly kind of you! Thank you so very much. I'm glad what I'm sharing has been helpful to you.
i love this channel. straight up, no bs , no hocus pocus. easy to comprehend. thank you !
You're very welcome!
Your videos have been some of the most helpful I've ever found on RUclips! Thanks so much!
Quick question though: When you're performing the calculations for your examples, how did you know to start with 4 of the X40's or 6 of the JM1P's when you had 8 available?
Thank you very much! I'm so glad they've been helpful to you.
Great question. I started with one box, which gave me the lowest amount of listening plane length (coverage width from a single fill speaker). Then I increased it to two then looked to see if the listening plane length was even with or longer than my audience width. And I kept increasing it until it got close to 65ft.
Very interesting and informative. Thanks!
You got it.
Great video! Takes the mystery out of it lol. I have a unique question regarding "coverage". My boss has 4 EV QRX 115/75's. They come with a rotatable horn. 75H x 50V. Set from factory at 15 degrees up and 35 degrees down. He places them in pairs on each side of the stage side by side. He has taken the outer cab and turned the horn 90 degrees so that it points 37.5 degrees up, 37.5 down, 15 degrees inward, and 35 degrees outward. The difference vertically equates to, 2.5 degrees further downward than the cab beside it, 22.5 degrees further upward than the cab beside it. The difference horizontally is 15 degrees inward instead of 37.5 degrees, and 35 degrees outward instead of 37.5 degrees. Some big differences and some very small but legit changes. This video helped to explain some things for sure, but can you offer an opinion even on whether we are helping or hurting with overlapping and coverage by using these cabs this way? Thanks!
My opinion was that they were rotatable so you can hang them horizontally, or use them as monitors, WITHOUT screwing up the coverage pattern. One other question lol. If it's a problem with the cabs side by side, could there be a benefit if they were stacked one above the other?
Let me check out that specific model a bit more and I'll get back to you!
You the best micheal, thank you
You're very welcome!
Hi Michael! Great video, really helpful information like always. Do you have any video about how to do/route the mix for front fills? I have seen some guys grabbing a cable front the mains and just daisy-chain the main mix to the FF, I understand that’s not the best way to do it, I’m talking about FF mix for a band. By doing that you’ll get all the inputs in the FF, so how separate the inputs going to the FF without loosing the FOH processing? I’ll appreciate your help. Thanks!
Great question, Rober. You handle it one of two ways - one is from your console and assumes you do not have a system processor. The other assumes you have a system processor.
If you're driving the system directly from your console, you would route your Main Mix to four matrices - Left, Right, Sub, Front Fill. Then use those separate outputs to feed each of those PA zones.
If you're using a system processor after your desk, you'd feed in your LR mix into the processor, then have the processor do the same routing and division for your system.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio yea thanks, I can send the main mix to the matrices, but what if I don’t want all the channels from the main mix going to that matrix? Is it possible to take specific channels out of the FF mix? I’m driving the system from my console, A&H SQ, I’m just not quite sure if I can separate the channels going to the FF mix without loosing the main mix processing, how would you do that in your console, I appreciate your time to answer my questions!
@@Roberorozco2003 I understand your question now. You are correct, you'd have to use a separate aux bus and therefore lose your master bus processing.
I understand why you would need a fill in the front for situations where there is a lull in the coverage of the mains (such as between the two mains), but what is the reasoning of not having the main arrays cover the front (by more tilt down - more line array speakers - assuming available) when possible, when the front is in-line with the main? Also, in your example of adding fills all across the front... how do you handle the stage part of the front where your fill speaker would probably need to be at or below the stage height to not be in the way/view of the stage. This would then of course only be able to hit the 1st row since the 2nd row and beyond would be blocked by people, etc. Appreciate your videos!
Great questions here, Kendel.
I've definitely been apart of both portable live events and installs where we didn't end up going with front fills and had the main array cover all the way to the front. The two main factors to consider are range ratio and imaging. Range ratio meaning is there a large discrepancy between how far the mains have to throw to the back vs the front row? If they're already working hard to pull that off I can lessen the load on the mains by having the front fills pick up some of that area. Like you mentioned, if I had more boxes available I could totally throw those on the main array, get more curvature, and cover to the front.
As far as imaging goes, if the main PA is hung pretty high it feels awkward to be looking at the lead vocalist but hearing her from 30ft above your head. Having front fills may not necessarily be for SPL or coverage, but to draw your attention towards the stage as a listener.
When dealing with awkward stage heights, that's a real bummer. If it's very low, like you mentioned we can only cover the first row. Bob McCarthy calls those "Foot Fills" : ). Then I have to engineer my mains to pick up from there. I'm doing a show next week where the stage is 3ft high but my downstage truss with the PA is in front of the stage, so I'm forced to use front fills. Thankfully the audience is seated almost 20ft away since the first 20ft of coverage will become the dance floor after the corporate presentation. My plan after the corporate portion is done is to throw my front fills on some black 2.5ft tall speaker cases so the front fills are high enough to be at head height and cover the dance floor appropriately. Going to try and make it look as clean as possible.
Hey Michael, great video. I went ahead and downloaded the Audio Math Survival Spreadsheet, was a lot to take in at first, but I'm getting the hang of it. I would really appreciate if you could make a dedicated video on how to use it, or just general descriptions. And this may be a big ask but, is it available in metric? Thank you! Also since you use the HDL 6s a lot, would really like to hear your opinion on Easy Shape designer by RCF that's part of the RDNET software.
Yes, a video detailing all of the calculations in my audio math survival spreadsheet is long overdue, for sure. It is on the docket and will be out by end of summer. It's not currently available in metric, but that's in the works as well.
Although do really respect RCF Products, I'm not a fan of their particular Autosplay function (or anyone's for that matter). Maybe call me a control freak : ). I like to do as much as I possibly can to get the design right mechanically FIRST (choosing the right splay angles), THEN use processing to take it across the finish line. I'm just not sure how RCF's algorithm combines both the mechanical shape of the array as well as changing HF correction and other processing to get the desired outcome. I usually end up wanting to do more overshoot in my designs than most autosolvers want to do.
I've also never used RDNet in the field. I use the HDL6-A's a lot which have built in FIR processing, but are not powered by RDNet (like their HDL26-A cousins are). So, it'd be a really cool comparison to hang a HDL6-A rig on the left side of a show, do my own process for designing, aligning, and tuning the rig. Then have a HDL26-A rig with the autosplay functions and RDNet taking care of things.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I have notifications turned on and waiting patiently for the video guide. Thank you!
@@ToastOnToast You got it!
Great video, thanks
Thank you so much!
Great video.
Thank you so much!
You may have covered this in another video, but I'm curious where you high pass your front fills typically? And second crazy question, how difficult is it to represent a stage that curves? In my case, the audience seating stays even with the curvature of the stage, so no difference in distance. But I imagine the 6db down points between speakers aren't going to be perfectly aligned as with a straight stage. Thoughts?
Thanks for the questions, Robert. I usually high pass my front fills at the same point as my mains so that the phase slope in the low end remains consistent and can couple with the subs the best. Usually 60, 80, or 100Hz depending on the mains speakers I'm working with.
Danield Lundberg has created a wonderful resource (I'll put the link below) that does account for curved stages. I would have used it in this video, but he has not updated the app to work on Apple Silicon. If you have a windows machine or older Mac you can give it a go!
www.lundbergsound.com/?p=268
What’s a good front fill speaker?
It depends on your use case, but most of the QSC point sources will work (K12, K8, etc.). The RCF HDL6-A will also work. Just depends on the brands you like and budget.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Cool Thanks!! My buddy designed the QSC 8! I'm gunna see if he can get me some.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio does co-axial stage monitor really get rid of the feedback on stage versus 2-way point source? Given you ring them out prior to the start of your live band set. Which one will give you a more gain before feedback?
For reference, I'm looking at the RCF NX-912 SMA versus RCF NX-10 SMA.
Do you delay the front fills at all?
It depends on where the mains are, but usually I end up doing so.