Martina Arroyo really throttled that note 🤣 a la brunnhilde. Sounds glorious, but completely wrong for the score and just dramatically, for the moment. Ditto Rysanek. I was surprised Nilsson of all people didn't just throw her voice at it too. Callas definitely had a better version of this. Verrett was great, as was Sass, in terms of hitting the note and thinning it out properly.
I think the "fil di voce" is relative to the rest of the voice...As Verrett had a larger voice than Baltsa, Vaness, or Scotto or even Caballé, her PPP is quite miraculous side to her Fortissimo.
That's one way to interpret it I suppose . "A thread of a voice" to me means exactly that. In Addio del passato (Traviata) he indicates PPP and "un fil di voce" --- those capable sing a Tiny A, and often crescendo for drama. This phrase in Macbeth (beginning after the Bb) is also marked PPP - followed by Un fil di voce. So, then, sing pianississimo, and then move to a thread of *that* ? Dynamic markings aren't really meant to be a "Your Loud" or Your Soft FF is Very Loud PPP is Very, Very Soft Irrespective of ability, the composer asked for PPP then a thread of that. That's how I interpret it - nor do I claim to be an expert.
@@rugby8-Philadelphia dynamics in a theater are always submitted to the proportions of what surround the interpret. It's boxes in boxes. A ppp in a Lied in a small Hall won't be the PPP of a chorus in Bastille. There is no absolute nuance. My expérience is that many conductors make this mistake when they make rehearsals with the singers, or the Choir, being at 5 meters and begging for hyper pianissimi, and then on stage with the Forte of the orchestra closing their ear, and with the distance, they need suddenly much more sound. Caballé says that a pianissimo is not a smaller sound, it is another quality of sound, and must be very concentrated, and as much sounding as a forte.
@@foropera I agree Completely - it's not smaller. It's much more supported, energized, focused. However - Loud is Loud. Soft is Soft. We don't know where the performances are from - live? in a theatre? In an auditorium? In a recording studio? Irrespective of what the conductor wants/thinks/expects --- Loud is Loud. Soft is Soft. 😎😎😎
It is marked "partendo, un fil di voce". So the ascent must be soft and delicate as Lady Macbeth walks offstage (Scotto, Callas, Nilsson, the latter attacking the D6b staccato), the note held for 3 seconds. Never rushed: Bumbry is a mess. Verrett achieves the best balance in this impossible phrase I think. Baltsa, a mezzo, surprisingly sustains the note and even slightly sharp!
Baltsa started her career as a Mezzo and ended her career as a Mezzo. It's not uncommon for some Mezzos to sing Soprano arias and vis- versa. The majority of Dramatic Sopranos started as Mezzo Sopranos.
@@baritoneblazzin1965 yes l believe Agnes Baltsa only sang mezzo parts on stage and was very good in the higher-placed roles (Santuzza, Carmen, Eboli, Amneris, Rosina). I have seen her sing Carmen and Santuzza and she was superb, never shrinking from the highest notes. Fascinating stage presence too. I think the only dramatic soprano role she sang was Kundry, and that very briefly.
@@baritoneblazzin1965 You did not read what I said carefully. She always sang as a mezzo. However in her training she was trained and classified as a soprano at first. Her singing mezzo is a CHOICE. A very good one seeing the effects.
@@philipc67 Most of the roles you mention were written for women who were considered sopranos. Remember that the concept "mezzosoprano" only slowly permeated the vocal universe towards the 1870s. Before that, there were contraltos and sopranos. The exception among your mentioned roles is Rosina, written for a "contralto d'agilità" (most likely very similar to today's Rossinian mezzo-soprano. The only role, among the ones you mention that was written after the rise of the mezzo is Santuzza, which, nonetheless, was specifically and categorically written for a soprano (the reportedly extraordinary Bellincioni). Carmen, despite the central tessitura, was written for a woman that *only now* is billed as a mezzo-soprano (by the likes of Wikipedia). Back in her day, she was considered a soprano, of such unique characteristics (restricted range but beautiful color and incandescent personality) that a category was created for her: The "gallie-marie soprano."
@@foropera She was a MESS at the Metropolitan in 1982 - in one of the worst productions I've ever seen there. (Worse than the ridiculous "clock" Traviata they had about 5-6 years ago)
Scotto was a terrible Lady Macbeth (vocally). A one in-studio high D flat is far from showing that she is doing justice to the score. Live her instrument was too small and short-ranged for Lady Macbeth. Scott was a good actress and singer whose stage presence was as strong as to hide her short-comings. Vocally Lady Macbeth, Gioconda, Abigaille were too much for her.
@@Wotan123456789 Well, yes and no. I heard, I think, 7 at Covent Garden the first ones. I was there helping her put together a Christmas album. I can only speak for those performances. She ALWAYS had the D flat there. Of course, I worked on one with Verrett and there is no mistaking that she was JUST RIGHT. But, still, Renata had something to say and, in subsequent productions of Macbeth I have conducted, I remember and learned some of the special moments which were indelible
@@stephenlord9 I think that even if there were interesting moments in her live performance of the role, vocally is way past her capacities. In the 80s it seems to me that Scotto attacked the more dramatic roles of her repertory in a very odd manner, where it felt like her acting took over from her singing. When I saw her live singing this role, her voice was barely audible, and even in moments like the Sleepwalking scene, the voice was not there.
I feel a bit dissapointed by Vaness (who has the right colour for the role), Price, and Ryzanek, who were able to give high D, and are in trouble to soften the colour of their high D flat.
She was an AMAZING (perhaps the best on the whole) Lady Macbeth, but to be fair the ascend to the D flat is as beautiful from Scotto, Caballe, Verrett, Sass and Price too
Nilsson and Dimitrova are the best in this C#6. This is Dimitrova's C#6 here. ruclips.net/video/QpkGrlC7aBs/видео.html And I expected something better from Caballe here as she had one of the greatest pianissimi in the business and she even did a great C#6 pianissimo here, so she had this note in such a soft and quiet dynamic with good vibrato (example) : ruclips.net/video/9vSwyNvCc70/видео.html Callas' vibrato is slow here in this note and not one of the best C#6 pianissimi by any means but she is the ultimate Lady Macbeth and it isn't even close. This role was written for her. Her 1952 la scala performance is absolutely untouchable !
Souliotis, is the only one who sounds somnambulant. Price's is the best musically in its phrasing and elocution,(although too full-voiced for me), along with Verett's, Caballe and Callas'. The rest are fine and acceptable.
@@rugby8-Philadelphia Certainly. True pianissimo and actually a fil di voce. I’m talking about a performance that you can only find if you listen to the full clip. The excerpt available on RUclips is a different concert. It’s not the right year. Mislabelled.
Ik vind als er echt vergeleken wordt dat het alleen dramatische sopranen of alleen Mezzo's maar niet n mengelmoes van zo'n verschillende sjare en vind F,Cossotto en G,Bumbry écht niet kunnen .
I think because much else in the row sits very low middle, almost equivalent to a “Verdi mezzo” range and tessitura. Compare La Luce Langue with Eboli’s music from Don Carlo, for example. The sleepwalking scene just has this very cruel ending for those types of singers!
Echt alleen Callas em sass en verrett maar de rest sorry hars of kort etc ik begrijp price hat zeker slechte dag over bumbry cossotto etc slaan we maar over en Callas was bekend dat zij echt over vermoeid en van keelontsteking nog niet genezen was maar ze moest haar verplichtingen na komen ik denk dat iedereen wel weet hoe en waarom en wat ook altijd vergeten wordt de slechte opnames in haar tijd wat apparatuur betreft even later was de techniek 99% verbeterd.
"I don't feel well " " I am sick" Are NOT acceptable excuses for poor performance. You should really only comment on things about which you *know* something. 😎😎😎
Ik denk dat jij miss ook wel eens niet lekker of griepje en toch ging of moest werken en dan ook minder presteerden. Of maak jij zeker niet mee in jou leven .
@@JanneMalik-tq8bv First of all - going to an office job feeling "under the weather" may mean you process your accounts a bit slower. When the use of your Physical Being *is* Your Job - and people spend LARGE Amounts of money to see you perform --- its TOTALLY different. Second of all - I spent a large portion of my life Performing. On stage. Acting, Singing etc. "I'm not feeling well" is NOT an excuse. It may be the reason, but it is Not an excuse. Especially when you are a top tier artist, who people often make great sacrifice to see. I understand the realities of the human body. BUT - "I don't feel well" Is Not an Excuse for a poor performance. 😎😎😎
There is a large disagreement among these singers as to what is actually a Db 😂😂😂 Elena was practically on a C Montsy, Scotto, and Vaness were *my* favorites. Most of the rest of them ignored Verdi's un fil di voce notation. Callas' Db , though soft and approached nicely, was very oddly created. Instead of being a round supported "dome" -- to my ear it's much more like a soup bowl -- the middle/body of the note was not there, it had a sunken sensation. No, it was not acting, or coloring, it was just not the best vocal production (I *am* a Callas fan, but let's face it, she too had some moments that are better forgotten 😎😎😎
But with the exception of Caballe (who surely could not do this live and oddly could sing better soft than loud up at the top) and Verrett (who sings more of an mp, very skillfully), are any of the singers here who are actually trying to sing it soft really supporting? They either constrict (Scotto) or sing off the voice (Nilsson). Regarding Callas, I'm not quite following your imagery. What I do hear her doing, though, what she liked to do in pianissimo singing generally (e.g., in Ah non credea), which is to sing off the voice but to also create as much space as possible. (Sort of like how Kaufmann today likes to sing soft.) Apparently Callas's pianissimo's created quite an effect live, and I do think it's very effective here. But it's true that she, as well as everyone else here except maybe Verrett, did not keep the voice spinning, focused, and fully engaged in the way that Milanov did in her B-flats. Then again, though, it is a D-flat. It must be hell for all of these mezzos.
@@JanneMalik-tq8bv Yes, from a Rugby Player. Are you predisposed (prejudiced?) to think poorly of Rugby players? I have advanced degrees in Voice and Conducting. Have been doing professional performing (singing and acting) sing 1973 . My first professional gig was with the Metropolitan Opera Studio (Yes, that Met) in a production of La Bohème. I alternated performances as Parpignol and chorus member (Acts II and III). I've been working in opera and musical theatre since - And playing Rugby8. Your ears can tell you whatever you like. Ghena was not pleasant to listen to and I did not care for Callas' told production (and I am a Callas fan). I would love to know why you assume a *rugby* player knows nothing about Verdi? Like what you like - as is your right. But, leave your ignorance and rudeness elsewhere. 😊😊😊
@@rugby8-Philadelphia I heard Verrett and Dimitrova live at La Scala. Verrett (heard her twice) was amazing with this Db one night in 1978, but she couldn't sing it in 1982. Dimitrova (I heard her 3 times in 1982) one night was fabulous, one night it was horrible, the third night she just sang a Ab and then went down to the low Db. Callas' pianissimi were never of the spinning beautiful quality of Caballe, Sass or Scotto, but in her voice they had a special beauty.I don't know what you meant by "told production". You don't like Callas' live Lady Macbeth?
Baltsa sang a D natural because the recording was running too high/fast
Only two achieved "un fil di voce."
Martina Arroyo really throttled that note 🤣 a la brunnhilde. Sounds glorious, but completely wrong for the score and just dramatically, for the moment. Ditto Rysanek. I was surprised Nilsson of all people didn't just throw her voice at it too. Callas definitely had a better version of this. Verrett was great, as was Sass, in terms of hitting the note and thinning it out properly.
LOL completely agree!!!!!
Gencer is missing
I think the "fil di voce" is relative to the rest of the voice...As Verrett had a larger voice than Baltsa, Vaness, or Scotto or even Caballé, her PPP is quite miraculous side to her Fortissimo.
That's one way to interpret it I suppose .
"A thread of a voice" to me means exactly that.
In Addio del passato (Traviata) he indicates PPP and "un fil di voce" --- those capable sing a Tiny A, and often crescendo for drama.
This phrase in Macbeth (beginning after the Bb) is also marked PPP - followed by Un fil di voce.
So, then, sing pianississimo, and then move to a thread of *that* ?
Dynamic markings aren't really meant to be a "Your Loud" or Your Soft
FF is Very Loud
PPP is Very, Very Soft
Irrespective of ability, the composer asked for PPP then a thread of that.
That's how I interpret it - nor do I claim to be an expert.
@@rugby8-Philadelphia dynamics in a theater are always submitted to the proportions of what surround the interpret. It's boxes in boxes. A ppp in a Lied in a small Hall won't be the PPP of a chorus in Bastille. There is no absolute nuance. My expérience is that many conductors make this mistake when they make rehearsals with the singers, or the Choir, being at 5 meters and begging for hyper pianissimi, and then on stage with the Forte of the orchestra closing their ear, and with the distance, they need suddenly much more sound. Caballé says that a pianissimo is not a smaller sound, it is another quality of sound, and must be very concentrated, and as much sounding as a forte.
@@foropera
I agree Completely - it's not smaller. It's much more supported, energized, focused.
However - Loud is Loud. Soft is Soft.
We don't know where the performances are from - live? in a theatre? In an auditorium? In a recording studio? Irrespective of what the conductor wants/thinks/expects --- Loud is Loud. Soft is Soft.
😎😎😎
Why nobody mentioned Sylvia Sass?
She is the best one
The best!
Certainly my favourite.
Shirley Verret. Impresionante..
It is marked "partendo, un fil di voce". So the ascent must be soft and delicate as Lady Macbeth walks offstage (Scotto, Callas, Nilsson, the latter attacking the D6b staccato), the note held for 3 seconds. Never rushed: Bumbry is a mess. Verrett achieves the best balance in this impossible phrase I think. Baltsa, a mezzo, surprisingly sustains the note and even slightly sharp!
Baltsa was trained and classified as a dramatic soprano.
Baltsa started her career as a Mezzo and ended her career as a Mezzo. It's not uncommon for some Mezzos to sing Soprano arias and vis- versa. The majority of Dramatic Sopranos started as Mezzo Sopranos.
@@baritoneblazzin1965 yes l believe Agnes Baltsa only sang mezzo parts on stage and was very good in the higher-placed roles (Santuzza, Carmen, Eboli, Amneris, Rosina). I have seen her sing Carmen and Santuzza and she was superb, never shrinking from the highest notes. Fascinating stage presence too. I think the only dramatic soprano role she sang was Kundry, and that very briefly.
@@baritoneblazzin1965 You did not read what I said carefully. She always sang as a mezzo. However in her training she was trained and classified as a soprano at first. Her singing mezzo is a CHOICE. A very good one seeing the effects.
@@philipc67 Most of the roles you mention were written for women who were considered sopranos. Remember that the concept "mezzosoprano" only slowly permeated the vocal universe towards the 1870s. Before that, there were contraltos and sopranos. The exception among your mentioned roles is Rosina, written for a "contralto d'agilità" (most likely very similar to today's Rossinian mezzo-soprano. The only role, among the ones you mention that was written after the rise of the mezzo is Santuzza, which, nonetheless, was specifically and categorically written for a soprano (the reportedly extraordinary Bellincioni). Carmen, despite the central tessitura, was written for a woman that *only now* is billed as a mezzo-soprano (by the likes of Wikipedia). Back in her day, she was considered a soprano, of such unique characteristics (restricted range but beautiful color and incandescent personality) that a category was created for her: The "gallie-marie soprano."
Price
Montserrat, Vanness, Callas. 💖
Scotto too😉
@@rlaflamme865 Yes here she is quite the most perfect "fil di voce". But let's hear her other parts of the role, full of wobble and stridence.
@@foropera
She was a MESS at the Metropolitan in 1982 - in one of the worst productions I've ever seen there. (Worse than the ridiculous "clock" Traviata they had about 5-6 years ago)
Caballe, Scotto, and Callas are the few that did the D flat 6 fil di voce as written by Verdi. Zajick was quite good as well
I mean Caballé hands down. She hits the Db dead-on and in pianissimo.
Caballe, Verrett, and Vanessa for me - from these recordings but I loved Baltsa, Zajick and Cossotto too!
actually, Scotto and Verrett then Callas then Caballe do the score justice. But only Scotto didn't rush to get off it
Scotto was a terrible Lady Macbeth (vocally). A one in-studio high D flat is far from showing that she is doing justice to the score. Live her instrument was too small and short-ranged for Lady Macbeth. Scott was a good actress and singer whose stage presence was as strong as to hide her short-comings. Vocally Lady Macbeth, Gioconda, Abigaille were too much for her.
@@Wotan123456789 Well, yes and no. I heard, I think, 7 at Covent Garden the first ones. I was there helping her put together a Christmas album. I can only speak for those performances. She ALWAYS had the D flat there. Of course, I worked on one with Verrett and there is no mistaking that she was JUST RIGHT. But, still, Renata had something to say and, in subsequent productions of Macbeth I have conducted, I remember and learned some of the special moments which were indelible
@@stephenlord9 I think that even if there were interesting moments in her live performance of the role, vocally is way past her capacities.
In the 80s it seems to me that Scotto attacked the more dramatic roles of her repertory in a very odd manner, where it felt like her acting took over from her singing.
When I saw her live singing this role, her voice was barely audible, and even in moments like the Sleepwalking scene, the voice was not there.
I feel a bit dissapointed by Vaness (who has the right colour for the role), Price, and Ryzanek, who were able to give high D, and are in trouble to soften the colour of their high D flat.
3:47 Callas by far the best
She was an AMAZING (perhaps the best on the whole) Lady Macbeth, but to be fair the ascend to the D flat is as beautiful from Scotto, Caballe, Verrett, Sass and Price too
I love Callas, but in this line-up she is definitely not the best.
Callas, Verrett, Price, and Caballé❤...My Favs
Same here
Caballe anda Verret!!
..or Leonie Risanek?
She's a Goddess, but sang the note literally opposite of what's written... lol
@@CASantos ...Opposite ...lol! What do you mean?
Nilsson and Dimitrova are the best in this C#6. This is Dimitrova's C#6 here. ruclips.net/video/QpkGrlC7aBs/видео.html
And I expected something better from Caballe here as she had one of the greatest pianissimi in the business and she even did a great C#6 pianissimo here, so she had this note in such a soft and quiet dynamic with good vibrato (example) : ruclips.net/video/9vSwyNvCc70/видео.html
Callas' vibrato is slow here in this note and not one of the best C#6 pianissimi by any means but she is the ultimate Lady Macbeth and it isn't even close. This role was written for her. Her 1952 la scala performance is absolutely untouchable !
Bumbry cheats by taking it so fast.
Look at ALL these bel canto sotto voce flageolet CONNOISSEURS! So we’ll-versed. Lol
Souliotis, is the only one who sounds somnambulant. Price's is the best musically in its phrasing and elocution,(although too full-voiced for me), along with Verett's, Caballe and Callas'. The rest are fine and acceptable.
Ghena Dimitrova in Verona, 1982 is the cleanest and the best one.
Not a chance
@@rugby8-Philadelphia Certainly. True pianissimo and actually a fil di voce. I’m talking about a performance that you can only find if you listen to the full clip. The excerpt available on RUclips is a different concert. It’s not the right year. Mislabelled.
Ik vind als er echt vergeleken wordt dat het alleen dramatische sopranen of alleen Mezzo's maar niet n mengelmoes van zo'n verschillende sjare en vind F,Cossotto en G,Bumbry écht niet kunnen .
But you miss one who is so great ...i am so surprised not to see her!
who?
@@PrimoTenore gencer 1960
I'm not understanding Zajick and Baltsa doing this...they're mezzos! This is a high D flat!
They’re not true mezzos
I think because much else in the row sits very low middle, almost equivalent to a “Verdi mezzo” range and tessitura. Compare La Luce Langue with Eboli’s music from Don Carlo, for example. The sleepwalking scene just has this very cruel ending for those types of singers!
Echt alleen Callas em sass en verrett maar de rest sorry hars of kort etc ik begrijp price hat zeker slechte dag over bumbry cossotto etc slaan we maar over en Callas was bekend dat zij echt over vermoeid en van keelontsteking nog niet genezen was maar ze moest haar verplichtingen na komen ik denk dat iedereen wel weet hoe en waarom en wat ook altijd vergeten wordt de slechte opnames in haar tijd wat apparatuur betreft even later was de techniek 99% verbeterd.
"I don't feel well "
" I am sick"
Are NOT acceptable excuses for poor performance.
You should really only comment on things about which you *know* something.
😎😎😎
Ik denk dat jij miss ook wel eens niet lekker of griepje en toch ging of moest werken en dan ook minder presteerden. Of maak jij zeker niet mee in jou leven .
@@JanneMalik-tq8bv
First of all - going to an office job feeling "under the weather" may mean you process your accounts a bit slower. When the use of your Physical Being *is* Your Job - and people spend LARGE Amounts of money to see you perform --- its TOTALLY different.
Second of all - I spent a large portion of my life Performing. On stage. Acting, Singing etc.
"I'm not feeling well" is NOT an excuse. It may be the reason, but it is Not an excuse.
Especially when you are a top tier artist, who people often make great sacrifice to see.
I understand the realities of the human body.
BUT - "I don't feel well" Is Not an Excuse for a poor performance.
😎😎😎
@@JanneMalik-tq8bv
I'm still waiting for you to explain why you said "from a Rugby player".
La Divina moest wel ziek of niet omdat het héél véél geld mist de mensen om haar heen duwden haar het podium op.
Bumbry abd Price were the worst while Souliotis and Nilsson were the best , Callas outranks all of them. Caballe should never have sung Lady Macbeth
There is a large disagreement among these singers as to what is actually a Db 😂😂😂
Elena was practically on a C
Montsy, Scotto, and Vaness were *my* favorites. Most of the rest of them ignored Verdi's un fil di voce notation.
Callas' Db , though soft and approached nicely, was very oddly created.
Instead of being a round supported "dome" -- to my ear it's much more like a soup bowl -- the middle/body of the note was not there, it had a sunken sensation. No, it was not acting, or coloring, it was just not the best vocal production (I *am* a Callas fan, but let's face it, she too had some moments that are better forgotten
😎😎😎
But with the exception of Caballe (who surely could not do this live and oddly could sing better soft than loud up at the top) and Verrett (who sings more of an mp, very skillfully), are any of the singers here who are actually trying to sing it soft really supporting? They either constrict (Scotto) or sing off the voice (Nilsson). Regarding Callas, I'm not quite following your imagery. What I do hear her doing, though, what she liked to do in pianissimo singing generally (e.g., in Ah non credea), which is to sing off the voice but to also create as much space as possible. (Sort of like how Kaufmann today likes to sing soft.) Apparently Callas's pianissimo's created quite an effect live, and I do think it's very effective here. But it's true that she, as well as everyone else here except maybe Verrett, did not keep the voice spinning, focused, and fully engaged in the way that Milanov did in her B-flats. Then again, though, it is a D-flat. It must be hell for all of these mezzos.
Beter de slechtste dag van CALLAS dan de beste dagen van wie dan ook.
And this comes from a rugby player!?! First of the worst Bumbry Price Cossotto and the rest and the best Sass Callas Scotto and Dimitrova
@@JanneMalik-tq8bv
Yes, from a Rugby Player. Are you predisposed (prejudiced?) to think poorly of Rugby players? I have advanced degrees in Voice and Conducting. Have been doing professional performing (singing and acting) sing 1973 . My first professional gig was with the Metropolitan Opera Studio (Yes, that Met) in a production of La Bohème. I alternated performances as Parpignol and chorus member (Acts II and III). I've been working in opera and musical theatre since - And playing Rugby8.
Your ears can tell you whatever you like. Ghena was not pleasant to listen to and I did not care for Callas' told production (and I am a Callas fan).
I would love to know why you assume a *rugby* player knows nothing about Verdi?
Like what you like - as is your right.
But, leave your ignorance and rudeness elsewhere.
😊😊😊
@@rugby8-Philadelphia I heard Verrett and Dimitrova live at La Scala. Verrett (heard her twice) was amazing with this Db one night in 1978, but she couldn't sing it in 1982. Dimitrova (I heard her 3 times in 1982) one night was fabulous, one night it was horrible, the third night she just sang a Ab and then went down to the low Db. Callas' pianissimi were never of the spinning beautiful quality of Caballe, Sass or Scotto, but in her voice they had a special beauty.I don't know what you meant by "told production". You don't like Callas' live Lady Macbeth?