Literally the first 20 seconds of the video is "the game launch was kind of a disaster but the gameplay itself was very good" idk if ur gonna win a lot of arguments with tht
@@zeywop Yeah, but that understandably might not be enough overall for some. Heck, there's some games that are beloved in spite of their messy gameplay (usually due to strong writing or artistry, but those are very different genres).
MVCI's launch reminded me of when DmC Devil May Cry launched very, very close to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. A weirdly dispassionate Capcom game getting totally crushed in sales by a same-genre competitor with far more inspired visual and stylistic choices. The steps Capcom took going from the 7th gen console era to where we are now is still the most impressive glow-up I've seen from any developer.
@@ThatHomestar He hit lightning in a bottle with Dead Rising (I still recommend DR1&2 actually), but the plan to westernise the Capcom brand overall didn't work in the end.
I've not seen a company symbolically rise from the ashes and come out stronger than ever than with Capcom. Sega comes close, but they're deffinetly not on that same spectrum.
If this game taught me something, it's that good gameplay isn't enough for people to champion a game in spite of its many issues. Graphics may not matter, but presentation absolutely does.
It just felt like no one cared. Especially when you found out some models were directly imported from other games, like I believe Chun-Li was just ported over.
From Sajam's previous video, I've already seen some comments from ppl who got weirdly defensive for default MVCI and were like "it doesn't look that bad I don't get why this mod's such a big deal" and I'm like "???" I get not caring about this stuff, but it doesn't mean that others should accept awful presentation and design all of the sudden. Also they make it seem like the mod isn't optional, doesn't have a crap ton of additional features beyond the visual overhaul AND it's free. Some people just can't be pleased for others I guess 😂
@@erichthegrahammore like getting stuck between hard places and a rock cuz marvel would have eaten him alive if he told the truth they didn't allow f4 and x-men chars cuz of fox owning the movie rights
Dragonball fighterz basically ate this games lunch and made it doa. Even if infinite was what max has made it on launch, I think fighterz just would of overwhelmed it.
yeah, there's honestly no reality where Infinite beat DBFZ. speaking as somebody who's super excited for Beyond, and for the MVC collection release, DBFZ is literally why I got into fighting games. Beautiful artstyle, a good Dragon Ball Z fighting game, gameplay that was definitely questionable at higher tiers of play but insanely fun in less-focused play, beginner-friendly stuff like autocombos on light and medium, it always would've completely crushed Infinite.
The thing that really turned me off of MvCI was how much of it was pulled directly from MvC3, but with so much less polish, care, and budget. What they did to Ghostrider's level 3 is downright criminal.
It drives me crazy that there were only five characters in the base roster that weren't in MvC3, compared to the six new DLC characters. Criminally rushed game.
Ghost Rider level 3 is maybe the best example of MvCI simply being unfinished. He's animated the exact same way as MvC3 - standing completely still - while the camera work and VFX are just not there.
Looking back on it, there’s no reason why the Easter Eggs were so bad. They could still be cheap plastic but it could’ve been clear plastic in the shape of actual stones. Would semi-opaque plastic truly be too expensive for the collector’s edition There’s also this obvious major turning point for good online and rollback and MvCI was firmly in BEFORE that page turned
shutting the mod down would be such an insane move, and yeah I agree that's more Nintendo's speed. I literally *bought the game* so that I could check it out with the mod. There was a 0% chance of me buying that disaster-piece up until the mod came out, and I bought it DAYS after release.
Also, not everyone liked the gameplay. Notably, ChrisG said everyone felt the same, did the same amount of damage per combo, and that there was surprisingly not that much room to experiment despite it being tag-in mechanics. There were many comparisons to SFxT with the gameplay being rushed with everyone feeling very "standardized" in moveset. I think over time that didn't end up being the case, as there is some diabolically cheap stuff in the game, but I could see where he was coming from.
It's good to see at least one person bring this up. Many top players (and many of my local marvel 3 scene, myself included) were extremely down on the gameplay. It was definitely the majority opinion at the time that the game was not fun to play. It's been fascinating to watch the narrative slowly shift over the years to "the game is great but no one liked it because it looked like ass" as the few remaining players are the only ones who talk about it still. It's gotten to the point where it's hard to argue the point without being called toxic or a hater but this is a modern opinion. I'll be interested to see if MvC:IB brings about a prolonged revival of the game or if it will be a flash in the pan as a whole new generation of players discover that the gameplay is in fact the main reason people did not stick with MvCI
As much as I enjoy the gameplay, I can agree with both points. I remember back when the game first came out, EVERYONE played Dante because he was top tier and did the most damage. However, everyone also did the exact same combos. If you didn't do the combos that delt the most damage, you weren't playing him correctly, and that's why every Dante player felt the same. I feel like where the variety came from was in the mix ups and unblockable setups, but once you get to the actual combos you're just going through the motions and it feels very same-y
@@AntonioRedgrave Yeah, and if you weren't playing Dormammu, you were missing out on the best mix-up tool in the game with thorns, and if you didn't use Reality Stone, you were missing out on the best Stone power. Basically, the game was not asymmetrical enough for there to be potential for different playstyles. Something was either good or just not worth using.
Don’t forget that gun super from Dante/Winter Soldier into tag is pretty belligerent no matter what character is being tagged in. And from what I can tell from the recent TNS MvCIB tourney - its still in the game 😂 I also noticed the same flight “function” combos are still there and I haven’t seen any new combos compared to the combos from 6+ years ago YET but I’ll wait and see.
there is no way comparing the 2 genres. Hero shooters attract huge audience while the fgc is in comparison quite small. It would realistically never happen
@@greenoftreeblackofblue6625 As much as I love FighterZ; it sadly didn't lead to a real big boom of Vs games either. We got Power Rangers and Hunter X Hunter; which are both lower budget looking, and then 2XKO which is still a long ways out. Still bummed we never got a One Piece Vs game lol The people who work on these games are just so specific, that maybe even if MvCI popped off, it still may have not lead to that golden age. Our best bet is that the success of the re-releases is enough, and people getting the word out on this mod.
The hilarity of "crackhead Dante" is doubled given that apparently Capcom had meant to put in DINO | Donte over actual Dante initially. In the end, that might have been an accidental mercy if had gone through even if it would have only hurt the game even more.
Somehow I doubt anyone can know that for certain. It sounds more like a conclusion someone came to after seeing that Spencer somehow made it onto the roster over other characters. @@Morrigan101
Given what was still happening to the _Mega Man_ series as a whole, it's more like Thanos _Endgame_ line of "I don't even know who you are" in response to Wanda telling him he took everything from her: X was just (constantly) collateral damage like Sigma and Jedah and the other Capcom other characters who only showed up again in _MvCI_ unfortunately than any real malice. Hell, this is the same game and company at the time where it was later revealed that Capcom--of errors *not* forced on them by Disney--was going to originally use DINO | "Donte" for the base _Devil May Cry_ model instead of actual Dante. It was just a weird time.
It's funny that you have the segment talking about the game's netcode, because I remember having basically that exact exchange at the time. My go to examples of games with actually good netcode at the time were MKX post patch and Skullgirls. And of course, because it was a fighting game player trying to defend their game from criticism, they couldn't just accept that the netcode could've been better, they had to argue that Skullgirls actually has bad netcode somehow. Certified classic
I remember how much people shit talk Sajam for no reason for supporting rollback. People will got against their own interests for no reason just because they're mad.
Honestly, the most insulting thing about that launch was the fact they had the audacity to release the game and immediately say there was DLC for specific characters who were -in the story mode-. I have to pay for Monster Hunter and Black Panther? And SIGMA? The guy who's one half of the final boss, and the other is literally in the game at base? What the frick??
People really cannot handle MVCI having better online than most fighting games at the time and MVCI having worse online than every non capcom game with rollback both being true at the same time
Yeah you can describe it this way. It's definitely preferable to delay, but there was a better option taunting us all right there. I'm happy we've moved on though and now we can play new games with good netcode.
that era of Capcom fighting game releases was BRUTAL. the fact that some companies fought hard against putting in great rollback was bizarre and it eventually caught up with them. a smash game can get away with having shitty netcode because its smash. DBZF got away with it because its DB. But even something as huge in gaming as MVC (not having Xmen characters available which started the whole Vs games to begin with didnt help) can faulter to not having great online play. then having a poor presentation on top of that? not a fun experience even with good gameplay cause you have to play and listen to the game for thousands of matches. so it took forever but the Japanese devs to finally came to jezus and realize what should be the standard in fighting games. the genre has benefitted greatly from it since and will moving forward.
I would argue the needing good netcode became a must during the era around MvCI release but I won’t pretend it would have helped the game’s longevity given how games like UMVC3. UMVC has thrived on parsec for YEARS and STILL doesn’t have rollback to this day but it’s still an active community. So technically, MVC3 gets away with having bad netcode (bad is a severe understatement btw) because the game is overall a better game ranging from the cast to the graphics. Now imagine if they added rollback? It’s the final piece in the MVC Renaissance
I honestly am glad MvCI failed because of the "functions" thing alone. If you are going to straight up gaslight the entire FGC, I think it's a good precedent that action leads to failure. That said, I bought MvCI on sale with the launch of Beyond, I think it's really cool that the game gets a redemption arc.
I still feel bad for Combofiend because the guy had to say SOMETHING and he wasn't allowed to say "yeah we'd love to have Magneto but Disney said no". Genuinely no good answer to the question.
Imma' be real, Sajam's the first person I've heard harshly criticize MvCI's netcode. The people who kept playing it and are going hard on the mod include some oldheads that are very sensitive to online issues, and it seems to be working well enough for them.
He's not being harsh about it, just pointing out it wasn't that great. Harsh would be saying it was no better than delay-based netcode, which is very much not true. It's just not that much better than Capcom's previous attempts at rollback (SFxT and SF5, which were also both better than delay-based but worse than good rollback), and there were numerous other fighting games with better rollback at the time, just mostly among more niche franchises (indies and KI) or NRS games, which decent chunks of the FGC ignore. So people who say it was great at the time by and large are those who hadn't played those other games that had already done rollback better, and were just comparing it to delay-based or Capcom's previous rollback attempts.
I think he's so used to a shit ton of smooth online play that he sees MvCI as not good, so there's some bias there. But I think the key takeaway from what he's arguing is that online play SHOULD be incredibly smooth for most games and it sucks that it still isn't 9 times out of 10.
@@RobbleRouserAlso rollback was a thing at the time and people were heavily against Sajam at the time for saying it was better. Which if you're a fighting game player now is fucking insane.
MVCI easily had one of the worst fighting game launches I've seen in quite a long time. Everyone has mentioned how many issues this game had in general & is a prime example of what not to do with a beloved franchise
Yeah. MVCI Launch was Terrible. Sadly, it also got to a point where if you like MVCI, the angry folks were in fact sending death-threat messages to those who were enjoying it for what it was. This game was indeed one of Capcom's Biggest Failures of all time. Take Care Jiyuna!
Max somehow got dealt the worst of both sides. People both called him a doomer and a shill at the same time, even though he called out the game for the state it was in
Tbh mvci still the most sold mvc of all times if you count each umvc3 release separately and it fucking had the budget of a single sf5 season so all things considered it profited
@@Morrigan101 that doesn’t amount to much when the game’s support was cut after one season of dlc and the longevity for both online and offline tournaments was nonexistent outside a discord server. Capcom making sales doesn’t really matter from the POV of the FGC since it’s not like Capcom reinvests their profit directly into the FGC anyways. What matters is if the game is good and people wanna spend time and money to travel and play it which obviously wasn’t the case back then. We’ll see if that changes with the new mod
MKX was by far the most burned i was EVER by a fighting game. Quite literally the worst launch of ANY PC game EVER. Dont know if people on steam remember how it had the weird download situation where the game downloaded in parts? It was EXTREMELY common that 1 out of the 20+ parts would just fail to download and you would need to reinstall. It is something i have legit never seen a game on steam do before or after. Ive played Mmo's for almost 2 decades and they had better launches than MKX on PC. I was so hyped before it came out "Fuck this is it. Im about to go hard af in MK" and for over a month it was literally unplayable and the crypt was completely broken.
Sorry to hear that. WB PC ports in general around this time had a really bad reputation. Stuff like Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor and MKX & MK11 all had rough PC launches. Then there was Arkham Knight's infamous PC port for how broken it was.
I kind of want to put Combofiend in the “they hated him because they told the truth” meme because of how these games tend to only have a few characters in the top tier anyway, and Sentinal isn’t really a beloved X-men character. It’s like playing as a Puddy in a Power Rangers game, but people liked him because he was good.
Almost every character in MvC3 is relevant based on team comps in competition, you could make any character work except for the actual worst character in the game. I disagree completely
Please stop - MVC as a franchise was built on introducing both popular and obscure marvel characters to the fgc. I still remember clear as day when Dr. Strange was announced as dlc for UMVC3 and hella ppl online and at my locals were like “who dafuq is Dr. Strange?” But you know what? His gameplay and ballerina tights grew on the community thanks to gdlk players and commentators (shoutout to Yipes). And are we going to pretend majority of MVC fans knew who Spiral, Marrow, and Omega Red were? Or better yet, that they were as popular and well-known as Wolverine, cyclops, storm, and magneto?
I was so excited at launch, but literally no other game ever has made me feel as bad as losing your first character in MvCI. You're at such a disadvantage. It feels DREADFUL. Would love a MvC4 for sure tho!
Maybe it was contextual to the time, maybe I just wasn't playing as many games around it, but I remember Infinite having good netcode. Not like crazy good, but it felt so much better than MvC3 or SFV.
I am so damn disappointed with the collector's edition. I was personally excited for the Infinity Stones set but to learn that it's basically just eggshells stuck in a case sucks so much. They should have just dropped the figurines and made the Infinity Stones a decent collectible.
I know I'll probably get shot for saying this, but I feel the "beyond" visuals, are only a minor improvement. Sure it would be very difficult to look worse, but the contrast of the new models, with the stages comes close. Even though I know it is supposed to be mvc3-inspired, it makes me feel like mvc1 models in sf5 stages. Just a little jarring.
I got hooked on fighting games through UMvC3 so I was super hyped for MvCI. I remember being so disappointed. I still don't really like how the game plays. It's unfortunate because I want to try the mod and I know it's good but the core gameplay does not feel good to me. I'm glad people who do enjoy are able to get something better, though.
Capcom likely doesn't care enough to go through with it. Something like the MW2 Remake is different because they didn't want to drive sales away from their current COD release, and obviously Nintendo is Nintendo.
Yeah whoever made that comment about the rollback being good and being better than other games at the time was definitely not playing Mvci at launch lmfao
I think there's a lot of charity being given by this video here. The gameplay in this game being fun. Maybe? I don't see how. I don't think I have problem with disorientation. I look at computer screens all the time but this game honestly made me sick to look at. Remember the hyper screen transitions? I know its standing tradition to having this trippy but subdued blue background. MVC3 even went a step further with a screen rip so it feels more comic book-y. MVCi thought it was a good idea to make it a brighter blue with light streaks I guess to simulate movement. Instead not only does it add in making the hyper looks worse the screen has more intense color that makes it harder to look at. And that's not even counting the stones. The Infinity Stones is a horrid idea. Maybe its fun to play but its epilepsy inducing. I could get into more problems I have with this game but its presentation on top of its gimmicks
i read max spent $30,000 on infinite beyond. i believe infinite flopped because it didn’t have x-men, most likely because of licensing issues with marvel and the devs had terrible talking points for why a core part of the series’ identity missing because they couldn’t blame marvel (“magneto is a function”-😡😒). more importantly, are you accepting friend request in rivals, mr. jam 🥺?
To be honest, I have to respectfully disagree that MvC:I's gameplay was great. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad by any means and it is the best part of the game, but even at launch I did find myself disappointed by it compared to MvC3. I much prefer calling in assists as the core team game mechanic in MvC3/DBFZ/BBTag/etc over the "tag any time" system MvC:I used, personally - it's a lot easier to get a basic grasp on and start enjoying, and still has plenty of depth to it. I sincerely hope that if an MvC4 ever comes, it goes back to that style (and 3v3, though 2v2 is still good). Also, much prefer MvC3's control layout to Infinite's. L/M/H/4th button is way more intuitive than any punch/kick layout.
Marvel burnt every X-Men and Fantastic 4 Bridge they had then realized that people actually like those characters. The lack of effort they put towards this game in terms of financial support, marketing, and leeway shows the maximum MCU-poisoned mindset, which we’ve only recently been trying to get away from after the movies have been failing to recapture the same heights. Back then Doom was seen as expendable, now they’re putting him everywhere they can, complete with Foot Dive.
There's exactly one criticism people made of MvCI compared to MvC3 that I think is just not true: the idea that its roster is "more MCU". That point literally only makes sense when used as shorthand for "no X-Men and no Doom because Disney was trying to devalue those properties", or to call the game ugly. The MvC3 roster is hella MCU: Thor and Hawkeye were added to promote Avengers 2012; Rocket Raccoon, Guardians of the Galaxy 2014; MODOK in Ant-Man 2015 (and Ant-Man himself in Hawkeye's lv3); Deadpool 2016; Dr. Strange 2016; Iron Fist Netflix 2017. The only characters that didn't star in MCU projects between the release of MvC3 and MvCI were Shuma-Gorath, She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Nova and Ghost Rider. The last two are part of the roster in MvCI. It's a comparable situation, I think, to Raiden and Donte in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, or Roy in Smash Bros. Melee.
MODOK wasn’t in Ant-Man 2015. I also highly doubt that Capcom was in the know about MCU projects 5 year in the future. I’d say the only plausible one would be Thor and Hawkeye. Guardians was a tiny IP before the movies and I don’t think a niche game from 4 years ago would be used to advertise the movie.
@@Reiven___ Uhhhh a franchise as big as the MCU plans movies out up to 4-5 years in advance and that’s just based on when they decide to make the films aware to the public. I think an argument can be made that it was completely intentional especially since the movies could have been in the writing phase since script writing can also takes years as well.
@Reiven___ I guess it is anachronistic to call Darren in Ant-Man 2015 MODOK. Capcom didn't need to know about MCU projects in order to be mandated to put characters in the game for promotional purposes. Also, it's not "a niche game from 4 years ago" if 4 years into its lifetime it's drawing large audiences to watch multiple events several times a year. That's a lot of time people are gonna be looking at and hearing about your characters. Very reductive way to look at a lifestyle game.
FUNCTION VERSUS FUNCTION And sadly, SF6 and TK8 learned NOTHING from us saying "no" to incomplete launch rosters and week 1 DLCs - THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. :(
I do not nor ever played any mvc game, but i still tegularly watch TNS mvc3 on twitch because its beautiful to watch. The sounds, the style are so sick. Mvci looked like doodoo and didnt sound as good and the combos looked worse, i actively avoided it at all costs. Also i didnt rly understand what the stones were about and it felt very marvel-forced. Whereas XFactor im like cool bro is red and goes brr. Sick.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm going to have this bookmarked for when there is a MVC sequel out and that one person says that Infinite was better.
>MVC sequel
lol
Literally the first 20 seconds of the video is "the game launch was kind of a disaster but the gameplay itself was very good" idk if ur gonna win a lot of arguments with tht
No way dude. If the next mvc has snappy gameplay nah
Like some people swearing that SFV was great on launch, nostalgia is powerful lol
@@zeywop Yeah, but that understandably might not be enough overall for some. Heck, there's some games that are beloved in spite of their messy gameplay (usually due to strong writing or artistry, but those are very different genres).
They actually sent Combofiend out to release one of the worst PR statements the industry ever heard, the function shit was actually hilarious
It was genuinely hilarious that to this day I still regularly think about it lmao
He was right if you're not an idiot.
@@nubesock5231 he was objectively wrong lmfao, a lot of people will just pick characters because they like the characters first and foremost
And those people are idiots.
And those people are idiots
MVCI's launch reminded me of when DmC Devil May Cry launched very, very close to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. A weirdly dispassionate Capcom game getting totally crushed in sales by a same-genre competitor with far more inspired visual and stylistic choices. The steps Capcom took going from the 7th gen console era to where we are now is still the most impressive glow-up I've seen from any developer.
Resident Evil 7 was the magic bullet that saved Capcom from going belly-up.
what's wild is most of capcom's dismal output during the 7th gen can be pinned on keiji inafune's poor decision making lol
@@ThatHomestar He hit lightning in a bottle with Dead Rising (I still recommend DR1&2 actually), but the plan to westernise the Capcom brand overall didn't work in the end.
I've not seen a company symbolically rise from the ashes and come out stronger than ever than with Capcom. Sega comes close, but they're deffinetly not on that same spectrum.
If this game taught me something, it's that good gameplay isn't enough for people to champion a game in spite of its many issues. Graphics may not matter, but presentation absolutely does.
It just felt like no one cared. Especially when you found out some models were directly imported from other games, like I believe Chun-Li was just ported over.
From Sajam's previous video, I've already seen some comments from ppl who got weirdly defensive for default MVCI and were like "it doesn't look that bad I don't get why this mod's such a big deal" and I'm like "???" I get not caring about this stuff, but it doesn't mean that others should accept awful presentation and design all of the sudden. Also they make it seem like the mod isn't optional, doesn't have a crap ton of additional features beyond the visual overhaul AND it's free. Some people just can't be pleased for others I guess 😂
can't sell a game on gameplay, I have never played this game so idk what it even feels like
The function meme still remains as my favorite fgc meme ever.
CF was right. Yall are sheep.
@@nubesock5231 Literally gaslighting their audience and somehow surprised that marketing strategy didn't work out
Lol. Gaslighting. Truly a sheep.
@@erichthegrahammore like getting stuck between hard places and a rock cuz marvel would have eaten him alive if he told the truth they didn't allow f4 and x-men chars cuz of fox owning the movie rights
@@nubesock5231 care to explain your position? Also, who CF?
Dragonball fighterz basically ate this games lunch and made it doa. Even if infinite was what max has made it on launch, I think fighterz just would of overwhelmed it.
yup
yeah, there's honestly no reality where Infinite beat DBFZ. speaking as somebody who's super excited for Beyond, and for the MVC collection release, DBFZ is literally why I got into fighting games. Beautiful artstyle, a good Dragon Ball Z fighting game, gameplay that was definitely questionable at higher tiers of play but insanely fun in less-focused play, beginner-friendly stuff like autocombos on light and medium, it always would've completely crushed Infinite.
Ngl if this game has good presentation it would have survived even if it didn't thrive.
The thing that really turned me off of MvCI was how much of it was pulled directly from MvC3, but with so much less polish, care, and budget. What they did to Ghostrider's level 3 is downright criminal.
It drives me crazy that there were only five characters in the base roster that weren't in MvC3, compared to the six new DLC characters. Criminally rushed game.
Am glad someone remembers.
Ghost Rider level 3 is maybe the best example of MvCI simply being unfinished. He's animated the exact same way as MvC3 - standing completely still - while the camera work and VFX are just not there.
Looking back on it, there’s no reason why the Easter Eggs were so bad. They could still be cheap plastic but it could’ve been clear plastic in the shape of actual stones. Would semi-opaque plastic truly be too expensive for the collector’s edition
There’s also this obvious major turning point for good online and rollback and MvCI was firmly in BEFORE that page turned
The DBFZ beta dropping on the MVCI launch day was the dagger
It was an exceedingly ugly game that suffered extremely hard from Disney burying the X-Men at the time, and MCU fatigue.
shutting the mod down would be such an insane move, and yeah I agree that's more Nintendo's speed.
I literally *bought the game* so that I could check it out with the mod. There was a 0% chance of me buying that disaster-piece up until the mod came out, and I bought it DAYS after release.
Also, not everyone liked the gameplay. Notably, ChrisG said everyone felt the same, did the same amount of damage per combo, and that there was surprisingly not that much room to experiment despite it being tag-in mechanics. There were many comparisons to SFxT with the gameplay being rushed with everyone feeling very "standardized" in moveset. I think over time that didn't end up being the case, as there is some diabolically cheap stuff in the game, but I could see where he was coming from.
It's good to see at least one person bring this up. Many top players (and many of my local marvel 3 scene, myself included) were extremely down on the gameplay. It was definitely the majority opinion at the time that the game was not fun to play.
It's been fascinating to watch the narrative slowly shift over the years to "the game is great but no one liked it because it looked like ass" as the few remaining players are the only ones who talk about it still. It's gotten to the point where it's hard to argue the point without being called toxic or a hater but this is a modern opinion.
I'll be interested to see if MvC:IB brings about a prolonged revival of the game or if it will be a flash in the pan as a whole new generation of players discover that the gameplay is in fact the main reason people did not stick with MvCI
As much as I enjoy the gameplay, I can agree with both points. I remember back when the game first came out, EVERYONE played Dante because he was top tier and did the most damage. However, everyone also did the exact same combos. If you didn't do the combos that delt the most damage, you weren't playing him correctly, and that's why every Dante player felt the same. I feel like where the variety came from was in the mix ups and unblockable setups, but once you get to the actual combos you're just going through the motions and it feels very same-y
@@AntonioRedgrave Yeah, and if you weren't playing Dormammu, you were missing out on the best mix-up tool in the game with thorns, and if you didn't use Reality Stone, you were missing out on the best Stone power.
Basically, the game was not asymmetrical enough for there to be potential for different playstyles. Something was either good or just not worth using.
Don’t forget that gun super from Dante/Winter Soldier into tag is pretty belligerent no matter what character is being tagged in. And from what I can tell from the recent TNS MvCIB tourney - its still in the game 😂
I also noticed the same flight “function” combos are still there and I haven’t seen any new combos compared to the combos from 6+ years ago YET but I’ll wait and see.
Imagine if MvCI had gotten the time and time/budget/artstyle/attention Marvel Rivals had. We'd be living in a very different timeline for Vs titles.
Man just thinking about it makes me depressed, ngl.
there is no way comparing the 2 genres. Hero shooters attract huge audience while the fgc is in comparison quite small. It would realistically never happen
@@derprofessor5100 its very much true that we may never see a fighting game reach those heights of popularity, and that's a damn shame too lol
Fighterz came out around the same time and was hugely popular. I think the "what-if" is the what happened.
@@greenoftreeblackofblue6625 As much as I love FighterZ; it sadly didn't lead to a real big boom of Vs games either. We got Power Rangers and Hunter X Hunter; which are both lower budget looking, and then 2XKO which is still a long ways out. Still bummed we never got a One Piece Vs game lol
The people who work on these games are just so specific, that maybe even if MvCI popped off, it still may have not lead to that golden age. Our best bet is that the success of the re-releases is enough, and people getting the word out on this mod.
crackhead dante and wide shoulder captain was hilarious
The spirit of Robfield's Cap art lives on.
Chun Li looking like another girl trying to cosplay as her was also pretty interesting
Can’t stress enough how much cap looked like a walking talking cement brick in blue
The hilarity of "crackhead Dante" is doubled given that apparently Capcom had meant to put in DINO | Donte over actual Dante initially. In the end, that might have been an accidental mercy if had gone through even if it would have only hurt the game even more.
The roster was a big downgrade compared to MvC2 and MvC3. No X-men or fantastic 4 characters so it was legit MCU vs Capcom
Combofiend didn't deserve to have to be the one to give those PR responses for MvCi
He pushed for Spencer to be added in mvci over other chars
@@Morrigan101 Im sorry… He did *what* now?
Somehow I doubt anyone can know that for certain. It sounds more like a conclusion someone came to after seeing that Spencer somehow made it onto the roster over other characters. @@Morrigan101
Maximillians overhaul mod is pretty amazing.
MvC Infinite legit made me think someone at Capcom was actively sabotaging EVERYTHING Megaman X was in
Given what was still happening to the _Mega Man_ series as a whole, it's more like Thanos _Endgame_ line of "I don't even know who you are" in response to Wanda telling him he took everything from her: X was just (constantly) collateral damage like Sigma and Jedah and the other Capcom other characters who only showed up again in _MvCI_ unfortunately than any real malice.
Hell, this is the same game and company at the time where it was later revealed that Capcom--of errors *not* forced on them by Disney--was going to originally use DINO | "Donte" for the base _Devil May Cry_ model instead of actual Dante. It was just a weird time.
It's funny that you have the segment talking about the game's netcode, because I remember having basically that exact exchange at the time. My go to examples of games with actually good netcode at the time were MKX post patch and Skullgirls. And of course, because it was a fighting game player trying to defend their game from criticism, they couldn't just accept that the netcode could've been better, they had to argue that Skullgirls actually has bad netcode somehow. Certified classic
I remember how much people shit talk Sajam for no reason for supporting rollback. People will got against their own interests for no reason just because they're mad.
Honestly, the most insulting thing about that launch was the fact they had the audacity to release the game and immediately say there was DLC for specific characters who were -in the story mode-. I have to pay for Monster Hunter and Black Panther? And SIGMA? The guy who's one half of the final boss, and the other is literally in the game at base? What the frick??
People really cannot handle MVCI having better online than most fighting games at the time and
MVCI having worse online than every non capcom game with rollback
both being true at the same time
Yeah you can describe it this way. It's definitely preferable to delay, but there was a better option taunting us all right there. I'm happy we've moved on though and now we can play new games with good netcode.
I need the infinity eggs
that era of Capcom fighting game releases was BRUTAL. the fact that some companies fought hard against putting in great rollback was bizarre and it eventually caught up with them. a smash game can get away with having shitty netcode because its smash. DBZF got away with it because its DB. But even something as huge in gaming as MVC (not having Xmen characters available which started the whole Vs games to begin with didnt help) can faulter to not having great online play. then having a poor presentation on top of that? not a fun experience even with good gameplay cause you have to play and listen to the game for thousands of matches. so it took forever but the Japanese devs to finally came to jezus and realize what should be the standard in fighting games. the genre has benefitted greatly from it since and will moving forward.
Mvci had great rollback specially for the time. Sajam is talking shit tbh
I would argue the needing good netcode became a must during the era around MvCI release but I won’t pretend it would have helped the game’s longevity given how games like UMVC3.
UMVC has thrived on parsec for YEARS and STILL doesn’t have rollback to this day but it’s still an active community. So technically, MVC3 gets away with having bad netcode (bad is a severe understatement btw) because the game is overall a better game ranging from the cast to the graphics. Now imagine if they added rollback? It’s the final piece in the MVC Renaissance
I honestly am glad MvCI failed because of the "functions" thing alone. If you are going to straight up gaslight the entire FGC, I think it's a good precedent that action leads to failure. That said, I bought MvCI on sale with the launch of Beyond, I think it's really cool that the game gets a redemption arc.
I still feel bad for Combofiend because the guy had to say SOMETHING and he wasn't allowed to say "yeah we'd love to have Magneto but Disney said no". Genuinely no good answer to the question.
Imma' be real, Sajam's the first person I've heard harshly criticize MvCI's netcode. The people who kept playing it and are going hard on the mod include some oldheads that are very sensitive to online issues, and it seems to be working well enough for them.
yeah i assumed it was the first good implementation of Rollback from capcom going off everyone's hype, including Max.
He's not being harsh about it, just pointing out it wasn't that great. Harsh would be saying it was no better than delay-based netcode, which is very much not true. It's just not that much better than Capcom's previous attempts at rollback (SFxT and SF5, which were also both better than delay-based but worse than good rollback), and there were numerous other fighting games with better rollback at the time, just mostly among more niche franchises (indies and KI) or NRS games, which decent chunks of the FGC ignore. So people who say it was great at the time by and large are those who hadn't played those other games that had already done rollback better, and were just comparing it to delay-based or Capcom's previous rollback attempts.
I think he's so used to a shit ton of smooth online play that he sees MvCI as not good, so there's some bias there. But I think the key takeaway from what he's arguing is that online play SHOULD be incredibly smooth for most games and it sucks that it still isn't 9 times out of 10.
@@RobbleRouserAlso rollback was a thing at the time and people were heavily against Sajam at the time for saying it was better. Which if you're a fighting game player now is fucking insane.
MVCI easily had one of the worst fighting game launches I've seen in quite a long time. Everyone has mentioned how many issues this game had in general & is a prime example of what not to do with a beloved franchise
Yeah. MVCI Launch was Terrible. Sadly, it also got to a point where if you like MVCI, the angry folks were in fact sending death-threat messages to those who were enjoying it for what it was. This game was indeed one of Capcom's Biggest Failures of all time. Take Care Jiyuna!
Max somehow got dealt the worst of both sides. People both called him a doomer and a shill at the same time, even though he called out the game for the state it was in
Yeah I remember people were just not having any of it and were extra nasty. Was a very dark time.
Tbh mvci still the most sold mvc of all times if you count each umvc3 release separately and it fucking had the budget of a single sf5 season so all things considered it profited
@@Morrigan101 that doesn’t amount to much when the game’s support was cut after one season of dlc and the longevity for both online and offline tournaments was nonexistent outside a discord server.
Capcom making sales doesn’t really matter from the POV of the FGC since it’s not like Capcom reinvests their profit directly into the FGC anyways. What matters is if the game is good and people wanna spend time and money to travel and play it which obviously wasn’t the case back then. We’ll see if that changes with the new mod
FUNCTIONS
MKX was by far the most burned i was EVER by a fighting game. Quite literally the worst launch of ANY PC game EVER. Dont know if people on steam remember how it had the weird download situation where the game downloaded in parts? It was EXTREMELY common that 1 out of the 20+ parts would just fail to download and you would need to reinstall. It is something i have legit never seen a game on steam do before or after.
Ive played Mmo's for almost 2 decades and they had better launches than MKX on PC. I was so hyped before it came out "Fuck this is it. Im about to go hard af in MK" and for over a month it was literally unplayable and the crypt was completely broken.
Sorry to hear that. WB PC ports in general around this time had a really bad reputation. Stuff like Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor and MKX & MK11 all had rough PC launches. Then there was Arkham Knight's infamous PC port for how broken it was.
I kind of want to put Combofiend in the “they hated him because they told the truth” meme because of how these games tend to only have a few characters in the top tier anyway, and Sentinal isn’t really a beloved X-men character. It’s like playing as a Puddy in a Power Rangers game, but people liked him because he was good.
Almost every character in MvC3 is relevant based on team comps in competition, you could make any character work except for the actual worst character in the game. I disagree completely
Conveniently ignoring the rest of the X-Men characters that people love regardless of their tier placement.
Please stop - MVC as a franchise was built on introducing both popular and obscure marvel characters to the fgc. I still remember clear as day when Dr. Strange was announced as dlc for UMVC3 and hella ppl online and at my locals were like “who dafuq is Dr. Strange?”
But you know what? His gameplay and ballerina tights grew on the community thanks to gdlk players and commentators (shoutout to Yipes).
And are we going to pretend majority of MVC fans knew who Spiral, Marrow, and Omega Red were? Or better yet, that they were as popular and well-known as Wolverine, cyclops, storm, and magneto?
I was so excited at launch, but literally no other game ever has made me feel as bad as losing your first character in MvCI. You're at such a disadvantage. It feels DREADFUL. Would love a MvC4 for sure tho!
REA-REALITY STONE!! So goofy. Won 1 local tournament and stopped playing before the patch even came out
The first time I saw the Ghost Rider level 3 I knew I'd never willingly play this game.
Omg I didn't know about the infinity easter eggs that is cracking me up 😂 they look so bad 💀
4:32 festive install
Iron Galaxy even did an MvC game themselves! They made Marvel vs Capcom Origins, with rollback, in 2012!
Maybe it was contextual to the time, maybe I just wasn't playing as many games around it, but I remember Infinite having good netcode. Not like crazy good, but it felt so much better than MvC3 or SFV.
Idk how sajam was even allowed to mention nintendo at the end there without his channel getting shut down
I am so damn disappointed with the collector's edition. I was personally excited for the Infinity Stones set but to learn that it's basically just eggshells stuck in a case sucks so much. They should have just dropped the figurines and made the Infinity Stones a decent collectible.
Holy SHIT dude I didn't know about the thing with the Infinity Stones. That's so fucking funny!
I remember the impression that it was much more limited in every way.
If you wanna get technical, it’s only the 6th entry in the vs series (that includes street fighter vs x-men and marvel superheroes vs street fighter)
Funny thing was, Mvci was on discount when beyond released. And xmas discounts so literally no better moment to play mvci
I wouldn’t be scared of Capcom. I would be afraid of Disney.
hello sajam
if only modern games could go back to the honest footsies of MvCi....
Fuck, that Azkaban joke at the end got me good.
I know I'll probably get shot for saying this, but I feel the "beyond" visuals, are only a minor improvement. Sure it would be very difficult to look worse, but the contrast of the new models, with the stages comes close. Even though I know it is supposed to be mvc3-inspired, it makes me feel like mvc1 models in sf5 stages. Just a little jarring.
Are we allowed to be honest about Ono yet? SFV launch, SFxT launch, MVCI launch… three in a row isn’t a fluke. SF4 was the fluke.
I'd be more about the Marvel/Disney side doing something than Capcom
People being able to change your buttons sounds stupid as hell
now if only the game can be brought down from 60 gb to something more reasonable
I got hooked on fighting games through UMvC3 so I was super hyped for MvCI. I remember being so disappointed. I still don't really like how the game plays. It's unfortunate because I want to try the mod and I know it's good but the core gameplay does not feel good to me. I'm glad people who do enjoy are able to get something better, though.
MvCI is essentially the FGC smash brawl?
imagine made the mod this big for that mix viewed game instead of taking woolie's advice?
How does this not get hit with a C&D?
Capcom likely doesn't care enough to go through with it. Something like the MW2 Remake is different because they didn't want to drive sales away from their current COD release, and obviously Nintendo is Nintendo.
I saw those Easter eggs in the thumbnail and I knew I had to click
I do *not* miss the " CrapCom " era.
Yeah whoever made that comment about the rollback being good and being better than other games at the time was definitely not playing Mvci at launch lmfao
I got the collector's edition from GameStop for $30 LMAO
I think there's a lot of charity being given by this video here. The gameplay in this game being fun. Maybe? I don't see how. I don't think I have problem with disorientation. I look at computer screens all the time but this game honestly made me sick to look at.
Remember the hyper screen transitions? I know its standing tradition to having this trippy but subdued blue background. MVC3 even went a step further with a screen rip so it feels more comic book-y. MVCi thought it was a good idea to make it a brighter blue with light streaks I guess to simulate movement. Instead not only does it add in making the hyper looks worse the screen has more intense color that makes it harder to look at.
And that's not even counting the stones. The Infinity Stones is a horrid idea. Maybe its fun to play but its epilepsy inducing.
I could get into more problems I have with this game but its presentation on top of its gimmicks
Sajam gaslighting that NRS games exist
i read max spent $30,000 on infinite beyond.
i believe infinite flopped because it didn’t have x-men, most likely because of licensing issues with marvel and the devs had terrible talking points for why a core part of the series’ identity missing because they couldn’t blame marvel (“magneto is a function”-😡😒).
more importantly, are you accepting friend request in rivals, mr. jam 🥺?
Also Monster Hunter World released same day as DBFZ.
We had to have a GLOBAL PANDEMIC for Japan do start doing Rollback on everything. lmao.
To be honest, I have to respectfully disagree that MvC:I's gameplay was great. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad by any means and it is the best part of the game, but even at launch I did find myself disappointed by it compared to MvC3. I much prefer calling in assists as the core team game mechanic in MvC3/DBFZ/BBTag/etc over the "tag any time" system MvC:I used, personally - it's a lot easier to get a basic grasp on and start enjoying, and still has plenty of depth to it. I sincerely hope that if an MvC4 ever comes, it goes back to that style (and 3v3, though 2v2 is still good).
Also, much prefer MvC3's control layout to Infinite's. L/M/H/4th button is way more intuitive than any punch/kick layout.
Regardless of how ugly it was the minute I heard the word ‘gems’ I was out.
Marvel burnt every X-Men and Fantastic 4 Bridge they had then realized that people actually like those characters. The lack of effort they put towards this game in terms of financial support, marketing, and leeway shows the maximum MCU-poisoned mindset, which we’ve only recently been trying to get away from after the movies have been failing to recapture the same heights. Back then Doom was seen as expendable, now they’re putting him everywhere they can, complete with Foot Dive.
There's exactly one criticism people made of MvCI compared to MvC3 that I think is just not true: the idea that its roster is "more MCU". That point literally only makes sense when used as shorthand for "no X-Men and no Doom because Disney was trying to devalue those properties", or to call the game ugly.
The MvC3 roster is hella MCU: Thor and Hawkeye were added to promote Avengers 2012; Rocket Raccoon, Guardians of the Galaxy 2014; MODOK in Ant-Man 2015 (and Ant-Man himself in Hawkeye's lv3); Deadpool 2016; Dr. Strange 2016; Iron Fist Netflix 2017.
The only characters that didn't star in MCU projects between the release of MvC3 and MvCI were Shuma-Gorath, She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Nova and Ghost Rider. The last two are part of the roster in MvCI.
It's a comparable situation, I think, to Raiden and Donte in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, or Roy in Smash Bros. Melee.
MODOK wasn’t in Ant-Man 2015. I also highly doubt that Capcom was in the know about MCU projects 5 year in the future. I’d say the only plausible one would be Thor and Hawkeye. Guardians was a tiny IP before the movies and I don’t think a niche game from 4 years ago would be used to advertise the movie.
@@Reiven___ Uhhhh a franchise as big as the MCU plans movies out up to 4-5 years in advance and that’s just based on when they decide to make the films aware to the public. I think an argument can be made that it was completely intentional especially since the movies could have been in the writing phase since script writing can also takes years as well.
@Reiven___ I guess it is anachronistic to call Darren in Ant-Man 2015 MODOK.
Capcom didn't need to know about MCU projects in order to be mandated to put characters in the game for promotional purposes. Also, it's not "a niche game from 4 years ago" if 4 years into its lifetime it's drawing large audiences to watch multiple events several times a year. That's a lot of time people are gonna be looking at and hearing about your characters. Very reductive way to look at a lifestyle game.
FUNCTION VERSUS FUNCTION
And sadly, SF6 and TK8 learned NOTHING from us saying "no" to incomplete launch rosters and week 1 DLCs - THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. :(
What? Dude am not trying to be mean, that's just factually wrong.
I do not nor ever played any mvc game, but i still tegularly watch TNS mvc3 on twitch because its beautiful to watch. The sounds, the style are so sick. Mvci looked like doodoo and didnt sound as good and the combos looked worse, i actively avoided it at all costs.
Also i didnt rly understand what the stones were about and it felt very marvel-forced. Whereas XFactor im like cool bro is red and goes brr. Sick.
I thought this game could not look any worse, but then Beyond came out