Phonogram Images on Paper, 1250-1950
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- "Phonogram Images on Paper and the Frontiers of Early Recorded Sound, 1250-1950." Presentation given by Patrick Feaster at the annual conference of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections in Los Angeles, May 12, 2011.
![Phonautograph & Phonograph Demonstration [Jerry Fabris, David Giovannoni, Bob Ferrel, Tony Wellman]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I5s7JBSE1LE/mqdefault.jpg)
That is so wild. Unbelievable. I knew about the recordings from the 1860s, but I had no idea that there was anything earlier than that.
27:32 29:58
This is beyond fascinating. Your work is amazing. 1677 had great EDM
Didnt even realize this was 9 years ago watching this, production quality's great for something back in 2012
Even if you're younger, do you not remember being on the internet at that age? I was only 6 and 7, but still remember watching "high quality" gaming videos and other dumb stuff. The internet was pretty modern back then, it was only the mid to late 2000s when youtube had lower resolution videos, and even then it was changing pretty quickly
this is pretty normal for 2012 so idk why this comment exists
@@cameron8529 Normal? Since when were videos about phonogram images normal back a decade ago? Such a relatively obscure topic, only amassing 66k views at the time of commenting on this, and for this, we get an engaging half-hour video with a knowledgeable, keen presenter. The rise of gaming channels was along the way at this time, and while the audio quality was negligibly close to that of the quality found in this video, the video still supersedes most of the popular videos of that time with its researched quality, presentation quality, and all around speaker quality. To even compare something like this to the on-the-rise gaming channels would be nothing but a joke, and even a channel popular at that time, like Smosh for instance, while camera quality and mic quality were on par, the simple fact of it is, is that this video sets itself apart with its well-researched topic, the engaging manner in which it's presented, and the quality of the speaker himself. Even for such a relatively unknown, old video, the production value outshines most of its contemporaries due to the no-doubt countless hours of research put together by many people that went into this production, the engaging presentation, as well as without a doubt the speaker himself, who brings it all together.
I remember an article some years back about talking clay pots from ancient times and scanning their interiors with a laser, and translating that data to playable sound. The theory was that any pottery that was produced on a pottery wheel could feasibly have inadvertantly recorded nearby sounds, therefore making it possible today to hear them.
Really??? that seems so unlikely. I'd like to see.
The problem is whoever was creating the pot was most likely not rotating it at a constant speed therefore whatever sound was created is unplayable, also even if the pot was created on a rotating wheel the creator used their hands to pat down any rough edges of the pot, and then used the pot. So as interesting as that sounds I don't think that's possible.
@@el.blanco8961 It just seems unlikely. I wouldn't think it would be as sensative of a proceedure for such delicate things to be captured.
Isn't that a sci-fi story?
No, this is not possible !
Leon Scott de Martinville's Guitar recording at 24:05 from 1853 or 1854 is a fascinating listen because it is apparently the earliest sound recording of any kind that was recorded from the air -- anything earlier that we can play back was recorded either from direct contact or is hand drawn.
Lol
Literally writing down sound
|^|_|_|_|_||______|__|_|_~~…|_ -+-=-+-==-+-+-
Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville was invented the first sound recording device.
24:05 Guitar
Why this doesn't have a million+ views escapes me.
This is fascinating. It was recommended because I listen to many linguistics channels. And then I hear my last name. Edward Wheeler Scripture was the great grandson of the eldest brother of my four times great grandfather. It is amazing to find a piece of our family that we didn't know about.
I can see from your profile picture you're clearly a time traveler!
I like how you were obsessed by this as a kid. It's great you stuck with that intuition for knowledge. I was obsessed with antenna's when I was a kid, and now I'm into Ham radio and still looking at antenna's.
And yet you never learned that the plural of antenna is antennas. 🤔
@@rich-f-in-tx6388 grammar nazi's on RUclips? certainly you could find worse English to critique.
@@rich-f-in-tx6388 *antennae if you want to be picky
Depending on the direction of play, the actual "slope" of the speed change, etc., one might wonder if the slowing speech of the German recording at 19:00 might have been meant to provide constant linear velocity rather than constant angular velocity (CLV vs CAV recording).
Yeah, I could hear that as the alphabet was slowing down.
Exactly. As the needle moved towards the center of the disc, the rotation speed was evidently faster during the recording, so as not to lose the quality, which was probably noticeable, with a relatively low recording frequency.
1800s phonograms have that warm, analog sound.
😂
@@wildbillhackett wow the joke went right over your head
@@wildbillhackett yes
You mean hissing like shit with no sound quality?
@@robokill387 why are you so mad
Thus was absolutely fantastic! As a luthier I’m always interested in how things sound. To have the possibility of ancient music and what it may have sounded like is amazing!
What an incredible time machine speech. Thank you very much for sharing your findings with the whole world. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
27:30 so our forefathers already had techno in 1677 !!!
It's Electric Daisy Carnival 1677!!
We may be surprised at how many inventions were supressed.
Эту музыку слушал даже Пётр I
Fascinating to learn of those very early experiments in sound recording, especially the examples that pre-date the nineteenth century. It's a good exercise in historical introspection to reflect on the fact that only 140/150 years ago did the technology for effectively capturing sound for the purpose of playback and reproduction come into being. We who live in the mass-media age of the twenty-first century are so often exposed to the amplified, often cacophonous din of recorded music, messages, entertainment, and other forms of audio media in our regular environment that it is hard to ponder that people living only four to five generations before our own would only have heard throughout their lives acoustical waves strong enough to have reached their ears shortly after the moment they were produced by the laws of natural sound propagation. It is no wonder many Victorians thought the first modern audio recorders and playback machines that enabled them to hear "past" sounds were the stuff of magic!
Scott worked at a company that was experimenting with sound recording with this paper like sheet and drew grooves on it. They literally might has created the first record sound.
This is wonderful! especially the 1677 , sound, it sounds like a moog.
Well, basically, the way he turns it into sound is similar to a synthesizer. So a Moog would not be far off.
That is absolutely fascinating.
I'm fascinated by these old recordings and love to find many as I can. I especially enjoy finding home recordings from the 1800s, early 1900s. This is really great upload, thanks for sharing!
27:32
Videogame music is born.
99 years later
The United States of America is born.
Grandparents were wrong, video games did exist back in ur day
This is absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing, thank you RUclips recommendations.
12:56 such emotion such strength in that speech i was so emotional 😢
32:45 Athanasius Kircher?!? Man, that guy had his hands in everything! What a legend
Man, I love the songs "You Nevr Cetsh Me" and "Sargint Peprs Lonle Hart Cluband" by the Betols!
Yo Francis North has some fire beats tho
what's the time stamp?
History Guy The time stamp is 27:20.
Word.
A Certified 1600s Classic
So MIDI notation programming was actually first tried 4 centuries ago
27:32 Only 1670's kids will remember
They were alive when Shakespeare was!
Sounds like a corrupted Skype call sound
Doesn't the definition used in the last section of the video include regular sheet music? Sheet music is just a graph with time on the one axis and frequency approximated on the other. I don't know what the earliest form of the modern style of sheet music is but it could be pre-1250.
Not really. Half and whole tones are spaced irregularly on conventional 5line staffs. Also, note stems, as well as the non-proportionality of length to not duration (half note is the same size as a quarter note), would seriously obfuscate any listenable tonality anyway.
As a tracker music fan, 1677 was mindblowing for me lol. Really neat!
How one thing can be so scary and so fascinating at the same time
They looked at a pottery shard from Pompeii. They noticed grooves in it. Someone got the idea to see if it contained recorded sound. There was a lot of popping and cracking but you could hear the squeek of the potters wheel.
@19:20 you can hear the alphabet being recited but the pitch lowers as it goes, likely the 50 rpm is correct at start but the medium it was recorded on was either cone or bowl shaped causing spatial difference to the data.
My mind is blown.....big time! Amazing!
31:50 this can be directly overlaid on something like Ableton or FL Studio.
I actually used google maps to look up the address at 20:46, but of course it's all different now. Still neat to see the same spot.
It got bombed in WW2
CapAnson12345 Hannover was bombed heavily during Word War 2, so it was all destroyed. Maybe look at photographs before it
The pre 1860s music sounds forbidden. Its as if we shouldn’t be allowed to hear something so ancient (but it’s amazing we can)
Good job. Thank you for all your hard work. Beautiful brain food
My oldest recording is from 1899 (banjo solo on wax cylinder) which is new compared to some of these.
Can you tell me more about that
Interesting, but too bad most of these phonogram makers weren't more interested in saving something interesting for posterity.
Also, since you have to do some fancy digital editing to recreate sound from phonogram images, why not go ahead and use some noise reduction to get rid of the hiss and background noise? That seems as legit as the reproduction of the sound itself.
It wouldn’t surprise me if sound has been recorded within pieces of slate. In fact, we assume that technology always advances as an ‘upgrade’ when in fact there’s no trajectory but in our own minds so the ancients civilisations probably have lost technology we are unable to discover.
28:23 sounds like it says let the bodies hit the floor
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Under the expanded definition of what constitutes a “recording”, sheet music qualifies
That's debatable, given that two musicians could play the same piece of sheet music completely different depending on their style
@@jackyback2578 Some of these examples in the video are people reading music, basically, notations off a sheet. Not quite the same thing as an actual analog recording
28:23 Let the bodies hit the floor
Hahaha!
It's not really a recorded sound as recorded sound is meant to be played back but transcribed tune absolutely this just means that visual graphical representations of melodies can be converted back to playable sound and reveal the actual melody of the instruments though not being the exact sound, and this can make it possible to play songs written down centuries before sound recording was invented, perhaps it would be possible to play back messages left by people who lived in eighteenth or prior centuries if they were left in grafical representations using electronic means assuming such transcripts were made by someone and actually exist, this would probably not be a record of the voices of theirs but of the words they said if we're lucky and intonations they used still very valuable, these would not be technically sounds as these weren't made as recordings but something in similar fashion to modern electronic voice modulation or music, being an example of the oldest playable transcripts of sound not sound records themselves, however I doubt the people who made these transcripts were even aware of this little property of their works you discovered. Since these were made so detaily for the purpose of manual reproduction like in the case of the 1654 organ piece, the authors didn't expect anyone to literally play music from the graph they created, that's why I consider these playable transcripts not sound recordings. ( a reconstruction of sounds not actual records) so for example in case of the 1654 organ piece the transcript itself wasn't a sound record you made a sound record out of it, which is as faithful as humanly possible reproduction of how these organs would actually sound back in the day, the difference might be arbitrary or just pure definition but sound recordings in my case are actual sound recordings from nature, not manually made reproductions in an graph.
27:20 this one need an IDM remix
I agree.
Very interesting , thank you for posting !
What's even more Facinating is that back then. It would be fairly simple to turn sound into a vibration on say a pen moving on a piece of paper or similar.
But they would have no way to imagine it being reversed back to sound.
Why does the romance one sound so soothing?
Balabastre was a fine composer. Check out his harpsichord music. Some of it freaking rips.
Thank you, most absorbing.
The recording of Balbastre's Romance makes me so happy, it's wonderful! I also really love that 1677 recording and it does remind me of 80's video games! There's something kind of dark and weird about it. Does anybody know who Francis North was, other than composer?
Some of them sound like ancient versions of chiptunes. o.o
Then there is the reconstruction of an Aztec hymn:
Teponazcuicatl:
ruclips.net/video/vSjCg8J3D_g/видео.html
Where the inscriptions of the words indicated the music to be realized.
Both musical notation (as it can be found) and phonograms were intended to record some audio event for its eventual replaying, such that the replaying could reproduce or approximate the original audio event.
I find these explorations fascinating.
The 1677 Francis North example sounds almost like something Jean Michel Jarre might have come up with! A brilliant lecture, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Thank you.
Amazing! At first I thought "1*2*50" was a typo. My bad!
31:42 i love that music
We can listen to any image we can see?
4:34 that sounds creepy. Might as well will get nightmare
I think musical notation started in such a way. I also had codes for solving math problems I used but were unrecognizable as such by my teachers. My old homework papers had margins full of my secret codes. I also used my own primitive form of Morse code. And in order to recall a song I'd think of that I couldn't remember the title of, I did a sort of linear drawing of the tune as it played in my head, so that later I'd think of "what was that song I was trying to remember?" look at my note and then use it to later think of it.
The last one sounds like "Smoke On The Water" to me.
I'm sure Ritchie Blackmore would be very proud of your comment.
very interesting video, subbed, keep making these please
What about sounds from the year 1250?
it's at the end
@@xiphactinusaudax1045 if this question has such a simple answer, then how dumb is he?
Sorry for being rude lol
so somewhere there's a clay bowl formed on the spinning wheel when a needle happened to be hanging from a string making contact with the spinning bowl just as Julius Caesar walked in to have a word with his potter - hey, with next gen software and a quantum computer, what's not possible
Audio Paint! I installed it yesterday to find out. How did you make it work that way?
So scores, such as a Mozart score, are phonograms. Also texts, which we read silently, are also phonograms.
It makes you wonder what we will develop in another 100 years or so.
Never thought I hear synth music from almost a six hundred years ago.
Is it possible that snippets of ambient sound waves might be captured in the interaction of a strand of hair of a painter's brush onto a layer of thickening paint ?
Might sound or sounds have affected the paint as it was applied? Perhaps. Is there any possibility of detecting or isolating the result it in any meaningful way? No.
People have thought this about clay pots made on turntables as well. I don't think anything ever came of it?
@@rogerwilco2 "I don't think anything ever came of it?" - Roger Wilco How would we know if you thought anything ever came of it?
In theory, yea I guess it technically is possible.
In practice, maybe not so much. The "recording" would be extremely vague, and there'd be too much ambient noise around the painter.
Back when youtube was lit
Nah man, you deserve more views, great job 👍👍👍👍
This is so interesting !
So underappreciated
27:33 Tim follin back at it again
Some of these are high key fire, mang
18:56 This is the first recording that I consider as perfectly understandable.
26:37 SICK BEATS LMAO
27:35 is literally the popcorn tune!
30:39 -- Loss of sound for the "African Quartet" section.
31:34, 33:04, 34:03 and -- It's also interesting that the 12:50's, 1660's, and 1770's barrel organ -type recordings is much clearer and discernable than the later 1880's various attempts of other types of recordings.
Because they're not recordings as much as notations made by hand.
@@robokill387 Yeah, the author is playing fast and lose with the word "Sound image".
Dubstep was invented in 1677... lol
Sounds more like 1960s experimental electronic music to me.
There is no freaking way there's one from 1250.
All these sound recordings sound so frightful
Interesting and eerie
Absolutely wonderful.
this is how i will record my black metal album
21st Century: 64-Bit
20th Century: 32-Bit
19th Century: 16-Bit
18th Century: 8-Bit
17th Century: 4-Bit
13th Century: 2-Bit
10th Century: 1-Bit
Truly riveting! But how are some of these things any different qualitatively, from written music, in staves?
Fred
I should think that the difference lies in the fact that written music employs a symbology whereas these are visually accessible recordings. The difference would be akin to reading a script (complete with stage directions) compared to watching a movie.
@@SpencerTasker Sure, some of these were made by some automatic optical/mechanical process, and can be played back by some other such process to produce the sound represented therein.
But I'm asking about the ones that are clearly just hand-written inscriptions, not fundamentally different from notes marked on a staff.
Fred
That's sick! I learned a lot from this.
Sorry, correction:- its at 15:05
So what you are saying is that people have being trying to record there voices since the 13 century
"The voice of Alexander Graham Bell from 1875!"
*Worlds oldest Roblox oof*
Play the Voynich manuscript
head would explode or something... this shit is scary af
My reccomendations are the strangest reccomendations in the world! But still thanks em
WOw!!! Great work!!
Why did they sound so weird? like the “fly” noise made them so quite and weird! Can someone tell me why did this happened?
16:55
bro sounds like he's screaming into the membrane
It should be possible to extract the ambient sound from paint strokes or handwriting. In short, what sounds were being made when something was being written or painted. Then we should be able to extract sound from printed words, i.e., what sounds were made while a manuscript was being written, even though we only have the printed version.
For that matter, we don't need human agency. For example, what sounds are recorded in tree rings? What sounds are recorded in leaves? And this is only taking from organic matter. What sounds are recorded in an ordinary stone? More dynamically, what sounds are recorded in the earth or the sun, or a portion of the universe?
"Who will be the parson?"
Fascinating stuff. And of course there is no line.
my mind has been [Fourier] transformed!
18:53 the speaker is from Berlin
While the alphabet the recording speed accelerates
9:33 do not do this with headphones unless you want to constantly search the house for bugs
20:36 just about as understandable as a modern german recording lmao