Saw Foreigner at an amphitheater in California a few months ago. The place was packed. The crowd went wild. How many people there knew that there were no original members? Probably not many.
Similar thing for me except it was ZZ Top and Lynyrd Skynyrd. The place was sold out 15k people and people didn't care there were non original band members in both bands. At the end of the day for a lot, if not most people, it's about the music. People want to hear songs that they love and that bring back memories.
Most people don’t care, it’s only music geeks that know and we live in our own music bubble, most people don’t and just want to hear the songs no matter what band members are in the band.
I really like how Thin Lizzy reformed to tour and pay tribute to Phil Lynott, then when they wanted to write and record new music, they became Black Star Riders. I hope this is the way new music goes with Pantera's touring lineup, should they decide to make new music together. Adopt a new name and be a separate entity.
Deep Purple gets a thumbs up. You can't blame the other mark ii reunion members for continuing on without Blackmore, Morse was a great replacement, and they have substantial discography. The greatest challenge is losing Lord, but Airey is the perfect replacement and there's more discography. Losing Morse is their latest challenge. Blackmore, Lord, and Paice are the classic core trio
I disagree with Parish on the Kiss makeup bit. If they had all had their own identifiable makeup and costumed personalities it would have legitimized them and I would have gone to see them the many times they came around. I was even offered free tickets to see them that I turned down once. To me it was more about the fact that it felt dishonest.
I think they were on top of their game make up less at Revemge/Unplugged. They then used that to open the door for the reunion which was billed as a farewell tour. That is where it should have ended imo. Not everyone needs to experience every thing. That is how things go down as legendary, you had to be there time periods. I give a lot of respect to Bruce for not putting on an Ace costume. I have zero respect for the guys who did. Though both great players they brougbt nothing to the equation
The one that stands out for me is the Little River Band. All the original members are in Australia and do to lawsuits and contract disputes they will never be able to have the name. So we are stuck with the American touring cover band version. A definite thumbs down for me.
Yeah, I have mentioned LRB in the comments below similar videos about roughly the same topic. With only Wayne Nelson from their heyday - and not an original member - it's a bit like Chicago with Jason Scheff but none of the original members or Asia with John Payne but not Geoff Downes
I'm 100% with Bill Schuster on Marillion. Though I had all the 80s era albums with Fish back when they were new, to me they became a far better, creative and versatile band when Hogarth joined in 1989. Saw them live on the "Seasons End" tour, and that together with the album pushed them right into the top tier of my favorite bands. I've continued to follow them for the last 30 plus years and they've never fallen out of my top 3 or 4 bands. There is a soulfulness and melancholic beauty in the band's work with H that I find far more emotional and relatable than any of the old Fish material.
I like how drummers like Peter Chris are always written off as they didn’t do anything. Didn’t they come up with a lot of the room parts in that part of the writing process unless somebody spoonfed them every beat which I doubt
One of my favs, Napalm Death, has no Original members since around 1990! But their subsequent music is beloved by fans of extreme metal. And their lyrics are for human rights, refugees, pro-choice, animal rights etc💪♥️🏳️🌈☮️🏴☠️
I can't believe nobody mentioned Pantera. They got the ok from the estates but Vinnie a million times had said no frickin' way. To me it's all about Phil and Rex stuffing their pockets on the backs of the 2 brothers. I wouldn't go see Van Halen with no Van Halens (looking at you Sammy) and this to me is no different. It doesn't say tribute to Pantera on the ticket it says Pantera, and no matter how many times these guys come out to explain it it doesn't change the fact. No Dime no Vinnie = no Pantera
the good thing about Paul Rodgers with Queen was, he was the real thing, a rock star on their level and of course they made the album.. I saw them twice with Paul and I thought they were amazing.. Adam Lambert is to camp, he's to pantomime dame with ridiculous make up. .. Fine voice, but he's cabaret queen
They took the roof off Manchester Arena when they did All Right Now. It was the mix of Queen and Bad Company and Free that was great.. I think if they had done deep cuts like Its Late and Spread your wings it would have been better suited for him.. Not Bites the Dust or show must go on.. Of course queen are just a hits jukebox so was never going to happen.. Did see the last show at knebworth too.. All of the concerts were good @@parishofrock2963
Fair points. I bought the album and enjoyed it well enough, but I generally thought they were two great tastes that didn't taste great together. I'm glad that Brian, Roger and Paul enjoyed it and brought the show to so many fans, though.
I liked the acknowledgement that Jon Anderson had a bit of grit to his delivery. I love the footage I've seen of Rick Wakeman on his latest tour with Mollie Marriot singing And You And I. I would have either liked to have seen Yes replace Jon with a female singer like her or at least a singer who doesn't try to totally copy Jon's sound.
@parishofrock I forgot to mention ELO who are touring this year (I thought you were going to mention them when you brought up AC/DC) How do the contrarians look at them?
I thought about ELO. I struggle with them without a few more of the original members, not just Jeff Lynne & Richard Tandy. Particularly without Bev Bevan, which you’d think would be a shoe in for the reformed band. But I didn’t go with them in the end because, tbh they were always about Jeff Lynne (writer, producer, vocalist, front man etc) and most of the orchestra had left after Discovery anyway & of course Kelly Groucutt is no-longer with us. Still as this is going to be their final tour it would be nice if a few more classic era members guested.
Not knowing as much about ELO's history as I liked I've always viewed them as Jeff Lynne's band. He does tour as Jeff Lynne's ELO so I couldn't really complain about it. Excited to see them in September here in Pittsburgh.
I feel that if the new members contribute to the band creatively, (writing songs, lyrics etc) then I’m usually okay with it. With the artists of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s getting older and passing, there will be many acts with only one original member. Ce’st la vie I guess 🙁
I disagree with the notion: “well, they’ve been in the band now for twenty years. . . “ That’s poor logic. Just bc someone has “tenure” so to speak doesn’t mean they are the right fit, good, etc
Wishbone Ash is another band with just one original member. They sound great live and their last album was good but having recently seen Martin Turner plays “Wishbone Ash” that band sounded more authentic, maybe it was because of his melodic bass and vocals certainly he was an original member and cowrote the classic tracks.
I am on board with Parish on AC/DC. Been a fan since the late 70s and Brian is as much of a member in my eyes as anyone else. I think the covid shut down did these guys no favors as Pwrup and a tour right after would have been much better. No Phil, or Cliff really hurts, and I'd rather see a few big shows here and then a few there with those guys instead of a big tour without them. The best reason to go see them is probably because this is the end though after watching the Power Trip show that might not be a bad thing. I always felt with those 2 and Mal they really anchored that band and afforded Angus and Brian (or Bon) to let loose up front.
Very interesting topic. I'll mention a not much talked about band...Tank. I refuse to accept a band recording and touring calling themselves Tank without Algy Ward. Singer,bass player,main songwriter.It's nothing less than Motorhead without Lemmy or Black Sabbath without Tony Iommi. Hey,Martin,When are you and maybe Pete Pardo to do an album ranking of Tank?
I’m surprised The Who was not mentioned. Unless I missed it. I suppose Kenney Jones role in The Who has been discussed for decades. He’s no Keith Moon obviously. But he doesn’t have to be. I personally love both albums Jones is on from the 80’s.
I believe Johnnie Fingers is living in Japan since many years and that is propably the main reason why he hasn't been a part of The Boomtown Rats reunions. But I agree with Martin, their first three albums are much stronger than the rest.
I was happy when Back in Black came out for AC/DC, but got bored/tired of it within months and never bought another AC/DC record again. They lost their edge to me.
Totally agree. But to be fair: it is hard to replace a charismatic and cool guy like Bon. Brian is a nice guy but lacks swagger. And I can‘t stand his voice.
I'm an Aussie & l agree, BJ was a great replacement for Bon's untimely demise, but they were done by Flick of the Switch, & that's exactly what l did, flicked the Switch.
Yes is one of my favourite bands. Although I like most of Yes’s latest album, Yes finished for me when Jon Anderson was kicked out. Now they are down to just Steve Howe as the original guitarist from the classic era. Most folk don’t realise how powerful Jon Anderson’s vocals were, particularly live. I think Jon Davison vocals are too delicate and no where close to the grit of JA , Steve is playing ever more economically and the keyboards are missing something. Billy Sherwood’s bass is pretty good but we miss Chris.
No Jon wasn't a deal breaker for me but with Chris and Alan both gone now it's over for me. Also I was excited at first for Geoff Downes' return but it ended up being a total disappointment. I wish Steve Howe would do more like Steve Hackett and honour music from all through his career with musicians he really wants to play with.
The Patrick Moraz thing with the Moodies; My understanding is, he wanted to contribute/write,/stretch out more, but basically was not allowed to. He was IN the band but my feeling is he was more a hired hand than a full member. The first two albums with him are excellent - Long Distance Voyager and The Present. They had a few big hits after that, but those titles mentioned above were the last real comprehensive, beginning to end great albums.
"Long Distance Voyager" is my #1 of all time, and "The Present" not far behind. I saw them for the first time live on that 1983 tour and most of "The Present" was played, along with a big chunk of "LDV". I'll disagree regarding "Other Side of Life" & "Sur La Mer" because I love those as well - though I understand that the absence of Ray Thomas on those albums (while he was still officially a member of the band) leaves a bad taste in some fans mouth. One of those people was Patrick Moraz, who tried to push for more Ray lead vocals and songwriting at the same time that producer Tony Visconti wanted to spotlight Hayward & Lodge as the main writers and band leaders. I saw all of the Moodies 80s tours from "The Present" onwards, and Patrick & John Lodge were always the two most enthusiastic players on stage, stealing the show at times. Todd gets it partly right in this video. The big problem started after a tour they did in 1990 when they were between new albums. Patrick did an interview with Keyboard Magazine in which he aired some of his grievances with the band, some of which you have already mentioned. While he never said anything about the Moodies being weak musicians as is stated in this video (he said quite the contrary in their later court case) he did criticize them for how slow they worked in the studio, stating that on the song "In My World" he did his keyboard part in one take, it took the others a few weeks to finish recording the song. He also said that he was not feeling challenged by the newest material, right at the time that they were starting to record "Keys of the Kingdom". The Moodies apparently saw an advance copy of the interview and it is more than likely what ended his tenure with the band. As much as I loved Patrick in the band, knocking their upcoming new album before the public had had a chance to hear it was a bad move on his part. During this time a VHS documentary/compilation album called "Legend of a Band" was released, and Patrick's interview segments were left out (though he is mentioned in the doc). This was the next sign that things were changing, and a few months later he was told that he was told by manager Tom Huellet that he would not be included on the band's next tour or any further recording sessions. And btw, Patrick, who is very talkative & friendly with fans, that he regretted that Keyboard interview and was feeling under the weather when he gave it...I was lucky enough to meet Patrick in 1988 on the "Sur La Mer" tour and he was super warm & friendly, with a fun sense of humor.
Nice background info and assessment. I have to agree with Moraz though, the material after The Present wasn’t as challenging musically. And Ray’s absence doesn’t help that situation, but it’s not the only reason for me those albums overall aren’t as artistically successful. Patrick was, for me, correct on both his assertions though; 1.) The albums after The Present could have used more of Ray’s AND even Graeme’s writing/input. 2.) The Moody’s approach after 83’ updated their sound with the technology of the day, BUT it was also geared more toward a pop sensibility and was less adventurous musically. While this yielded a couple great and very successful singles, (which I love!), the overall quality of the album cuts, for me, suffered. The album long cohesiveness was lacking. When i play LDV or The Present, it’s an album long listen. Albums after that I pick and choose which songs to listen to. I saw them on the 86’ tour. Thanks again for the great background!
@@davescryptodays1441excellent comments. I fully agree. I also saw that 1986 tour. Loved it. I don't feel the need to own any full albums after The Present. The singles are great, but I'm fine with having them on a compilation. It would have been cool to see what they could have done with Patrick as a full writing member.
Martin, early Skynyrd had no personality? Next thing you know you would say Blizzard Of Ozz sounds like disco. Oh wait a minute, you did. You are definitely a contrarian, some of your opinions are definitely out there in la la land.
I think there is much "Tribute shows" in the future. A friend of mine went to see Mark Knopfler a few years ago. He thought it was okay but wasn't impressed. Seeing him in a big arena for much money. I've seen "Dire Straits Tribute". A tribute act that is really good. It's not Mark Knopfler but paying less, have a better view and probably see a better show... How is that bad? Is it THAT important to say "I've seen Mark Knopfler" even if he wasn't that great? Not knocking Mark Knopfler I even think his new release sounds cool but isn't the actual music the main thing? If that is solid.. What's the problem?
If they did something different like maybe a female singer but I don't think Josh would ever come back to music, and Kenny and John are working on Eye Am so really no need.
I'll watch this later today but this should be really good. This is one of those things that's completely subjective and up to the individual fan, I think. I've had it easy in that my favorite band is Rush so the band is/was the band, period. I never had to wonder "I wonder who will be playing drums on this next tour?" But I was watching a bit of the recent rock cruise footage on Grant's channel and you see bands like 38 Special where it's just Don Barnes and a bunch of other guys who might as well be random guys from a local bar. Is that really 38 Special at this point? Yes and Kansas and Foreigner and Journey and others are just shells at best. But I guess as far as most people are concerned if they play the songs in a recognizable way and they can buy a T shirt at the show I don't really think they care.
That Queen could have replaced Freddie and go on as a recording band might be one of the most ridiculous suggestions i've heard yet. I'd think Brian and Roger are aware of that hence the path they took, they can still function as a live act with Adam Lambert. For the audience it is a fun night out.
I think the E Street Band is essentially the drummer, pianist, and the bassist (and Bruce of course) Lose any one of them and it ceases to be the E Street band IMO
KISS gets a thumbs down. Eric Singer in particular has impressive credentials and both replacement members have held their positions longer than their predecessors, but their discography is terribly lacking compared to all past KISS lineups and now they are avatars.
KISS Mark 1. 2, 3, 4 All versions have great tunes. Buckingham refused to tour, remember? Pinder became impossible to work with. Concerning Andersson, go listen to some Starcastle. Put Geordie back together... Forgot about Animalize...
Ronnie died and his brother stepped up to fill his shoes. I think they're legit. Do I think they're equal to their classic era lineup? Nope. I don't have a problem with them soldiering on all these years but, with Gary's passing, I feel like it's time to put it to bed. You can't replace Phil Lynott. Period! Even with John Sykes singing very well they were nothing more than a tribute to Phil. No way they should continue without him. Kiss? Lineup changes were common place before we even knew they were happening so, I think they were fine continuing on. I have one for you. Black Sabbath. I think they jumped the shark on Seventh Star but, I enjoy that album and Eternal Idol. It gets really spotty for me after that. I don't care for Dehumanizer or The Devil You Know (their name changed to Heaven and Hell but it was Sabbath). Way too many lineup changes for my liking. I would have been fine with Tony going on as Iommi from Seventh Star forward and appreciated those albums on their own merit separate from the Sabbath legacy. Maybe allow for any combination of two or more members from Geezer, Ronnie, Ozzy or Bill, with Tony,(meaning at least three members from the first two lineups to legitimize them) to give the title Black Sabbath to an album again but, I'm not a big fan of much of the catalog after Eternal Idol. I like 13 more than most all of that half of the band's output.
Generally agree with you on Sabbath. I do like Dehumanizer, but other than that, everything after Eternal Idol (including 13) is lesser quality. I think they were trying to hard to sound like themselves on 13. Plus, I never really forgave them for Bill Ward's absence. That's a whole other show though. 😂
Last in Line had a strong claim to legitimacy with Schnell and Bain in the band, but they quickly dismissed Schnell and Bain tragically passed away. Their discography has been lackluster and the band is shrouded in Vivian Campbell's antagonistic history with Dio as well as his role in Def Leppard, which mostly involves playing songs from before he was in the band. Campbell's greatest creative achievements were the results of his collaboration with a man he denigrated for many years and Last in Line pales in comparison to Dio, which is a shame considering the potential.
vivian criticised ronnie over breaking the financial promises he made - which ronnie renaged on - vivian has a valid point - he never denigrated the gr8 music they made - he has every right to play the old dio stuff he co wrote
These legacy acts are stale and should be playing the county fair circuit.REO,Styx,Foreigner,Kansas and the like are still playing arenas in package tours.Nostalgia will always sell at the expense of new music.
Do you mean new music as in new bands or legacy acts are sacrificing being creative to just tour on the old stuff ? If the latter the answer is people don't buy new albums by these bands. Personally it wouldn't stop me from making new music if I was in their shoes but I understand it completely. The crowds they are playing to don't want to hear new material in concert - they want the hits and so that's what a lot of these bands do. It's their living after all and they have bills to pay, families to tend to so who can begrudge them that? It's all supply and demand.
I mean the legacy acts.I agree about the supply and demand and being able to provide.I just think these bands are stale.There is fresh and new music everywhere in any genre you can think.@@ButchArgus
I agree that the lead singer is probably the most irreplaceable member of any band. Hence my complete disinterest in Uriah Heep after David Byron was fired (plus the albums themselves had gotten weaker towards the end of that era). I also preferred the Fish era of Marillion, simply because he had a very distinctive voice. I find Hogarth, while a technically capable singer, has a very generic voice and would be easily replaceable.
Pantera without the brothers is one for me , I don’t mind them touring that old material as a tribute . In much the same way I don’t mind Lizzy . They E gotta do the same thing and change the name if they’re gonna write new material . No Dime and Vinny no pantera . Much the same as some one mentioned no Pete steel no Type O
Nazareth with only Pete Agnew remaining. I don't believe he sings, I don't know how much he contributed to the songwriting, but carrying on after the other three guys have gone, with your own son on drums? Not so much a band as a source of income.
Martin era 'Sabbath' was one lineup to many for me, totally destroyed their credibility with one disastrous weak album after another & hit the wall hard with Forbidden.
No mention of VH which was 2 different bands between Sam&Dave. Gary just wasn t a good fit at all. Whitesnake as well they have had so many members and I think DC is the only one left.
Only thumbs down for me is Journey. Loved them with Perry, Augeri, and Soto. Pineda sucks. I will never see them again as long as he is still in the band.
Saw Foreigner at an amphitheater in California a few months ago. The place was packed. The crowd went wild. How many people there knew that there were no original members? Probably not many.
Similar thing for me except it was ZZ Top and Lynyrd Skynyrd. The place was sold out 15k people and people didn't care there were non original band members in both bands. At the end of the day for a lot, if not most people, it's about the music. People want to hear songs that they love and that bring back memories.
This is the way forward for classic rock.
Most people don’t care, it’s only music geeks that know and we live in our own music bubble, most people don’t and just want to hear the songs no matter what band members are in the band.
I really like how Thin Lizzy reformed to tour and pay tribute to Phil Lynott, then when they wanted to write and record new music, they became Black Star Riders. I hope this is the way new music goes with Pantera's touring lineup, should they decide to make new music together. Adopt a new name and be a separate entity.
I love the Black Star Riders. Every album they've released has been quality. Wish Scott and Damon were still with them though.
Bon Scott having a mischevious Dennis the Menace voice is an absolutely spot on description.
Deep Purple gets a thumbs up. You can't blame the other mark ii reunion members for continuing on without Blackmore, Morse was a great replacement, and they have substantial discography. The greatest challenge is losing Lord, but Airey is the perfect replacement and there's more discography. Losing Morse is their latest challenge. Blackmore, Lord, and Paice are the classic core trio
It certainly helps that they stay busy in the studio and put out new material.
I disagree with Parish on the Kiss makeup bit. If they had all had their own identifiable makeup and costumed personalities it would have legitimized them and I would have gone to see them the many times they came around. I was even offered free tickets to see them that I turned down once. To me it was more about the fact that it felt dishonest.
I totally get your point & there’s certainly a lot of fans that feel the same way.
I think they were on top of their game make up less at Revemge/Unplugged. They then used that to open the door for the reunion which was billed as a farewell tour. That is where it should have ended imo. Not everyone needs to experience every thing. That is how things go down as legendary, you had to be there time periods. I give a lot of respect to Bruce for not putting on an Ace costume. I have zero respect for the guys who did. Though both great players they brougbt nothing to the equation
The one that stands out for me is the Little River Band. All the original members are in Australia and do to lawsuits and contract disputes they will never be able to have the name. So we are stuck with the American touring cover band version. A definite thumbs down for me.
Yeah, I have mentioned LRB in the comments below similar videos about roughly the same topic. With only Wayne Nelson from their heyday - and not an original member - it's a bit like Chicago with Jason Scheff but none of the original members or Asia with John Payne but not Geoff Downes
I'm 100% with Bill Schuster on Marillion. Though I had all the 80s era albums with Fish back when they were new, to me they became a far better, creative and versatile band when Hogarth joined in 1989. Saw them live on the "Seasons End" tour, and that together with the album pushed them right into the top tier of my favorite bands. I've continued to follow them for the last 30 plus years and they've never fallen out of my top 3 or 4 bands. There is a soulfulness and melancholic beauty in the band's work with H that I find far more emotional and relatable than any of the old Fish material.
Thanks for the support! They really seem happy to be playing together with Hogarth in the band. The chemistry is strong with this lineup.
I like how drummers like Peter Chris are always written off as they didn’t do anything. Didn’t they come up with a lot of the room parts in that part of the writing process unless somebody spoonfed them every beat which I doubt
I meant to say Drum parts
You have a very valid point.
Good episode. Very interesting
Thanks Gary
Hi guys.... first band that came to mind was Jethro Tull....
Sort of, for me. Tull was Anderson, Anderson is Tull. So despite many changes.
One of my favs, Napalm Death, has no Original members since around 1990! But their subsequent music is beloved by fans of extreme metal. And their lyrics are for human rights, refugees, pro-choice, animal rights etc💪♥️🏳️🌈☮️🏴☠️
Napalm Death founders moved on to Godflesh and Scorn. Subsequent members formed Carcass and Cathedral 🏴☠️
Just shows it can work
Dang I thought Mick Box was on the panel for a second.
😂 He was. Why do you think I mentioned Uriah Heep? 😛
Big thumbs up for B.O.C!
I can't believe nobody mentioned Pantera. They got the ok from the estates but Vinnie a million times had said no frickin' way. To me it's all about Phil and Rex stuffing their pockets on the backs of the 2 brothers. I wouldn't go see Van Halen with no Van Halens (looking at you Sammy) and this to me is no different. It doesn't say tribute to Pantera on the ticket it says Pantera, and no matter how many times these guys come out to explain it it doesn't change the fact. No Dime no Vinnie = no Pantera
If Vinnie were alive no way would the reunion or whatever you want to call it happen. There's no way he'd be fine with it or take part in it.
Dead Kennedys without Jello Biafra - no no no!!
Hands down one comes to mind
The Temptations🤣
You made me lol with that one, Kev. 😂 I love the Temptations, but you are not wrong. Psychedelic Soul, starring...who knows?
this maybe obscure, but Bloodrock replaced their lead singer and guitarist. they changed the sound, but lost the fanbase.
the good thing about Paul Rodgers with Queen was, he was the real thing, a rock star on their level and of course they made the album.. I saw them twice with Paul and I thought they were amazing.. Adam Lambert is to camp, he's to pantomime dame with ridiculous make up. .. Fine voice, but he's cabaret queen
Definitely cabaret! For me Paul Rodger’s voice didn’t suit the songs but I agree he’s definitely a rock star.
They took the roof off Manchester Arena when they did All Right Now. It was the mix of Queen and Bad Company and Free that was great.. I think if they had done deep cuts like Its Late and Spread your wings it would have been better suited for him.. Not Bites the Dust or show must go on.. Of course queen are just a hits jukebox so was never going to happen.. Did see the last show at knebworth too.. All of the concerts were good
@@parishofrock2963
I saw them at Birmingham, & Paul Rodger’s songs were the best bit for me.
Fair points. I bought the album and enjoyed it well enough, but I generally thought they were two great tastes that didn't taste great together. I'm glad that Brian, Roger and Paul enjoyed it and brought the show to so many fans, though.
Todd, one thing. It's not just Jerry Scheff, but The Great Jerry Scheff. Great show, thanks.
I liked the acknowledgement that Jon Anderson had a bit of grit to his delivery. I love the footage I've seen of Rick Wakeman on his latest tour with Mollie Marriot singing And You And I. I would have either liked to have seen Yes replace Jon with a female singer like her or at least a singer who doesn't try to totally copy Jon's sound.
@parishofrock I forgot to mention ELO who are touring this year (I thought you were going to mention them when you brought up AC/DC) How do the contrarians look at them?
I thought about ELO. I struggle with them without a few more of the original members, not just Jeff Lynne & Richard Tandy. Particularly without Bev Bevan, which you’d think would be a shoe in for the reformed band. But I didn’t go with them in the end because, tbh they were always about Jeff Lynne (writer, producer, vocalist, front man etc) and most of the orchestra had left after Discovery anyway & of course Kelly Groucutt is no-longer with us. Still as this is going to be their final tour it would be nice if a few more classic era members guested.
Not knowing as much about ELO's history as I liked I've always viewed them as Jeff Lynne's band. He does tour as Jeff Lynne's ELO so I couldn't really complain about it. Excited to see them in September here in Pittsburgh.
Going to see them at MSG in September hopefully.
I will second what Parish said here.
@@ButchArgusI saw them a few years back, you’ll definitely enjoy it.
Lynyrd Skynyrd had way more personality that Martin will ever have!
Butch, I know Exactly what your talking about. Thin lizzy without phil, is no thin lizzy........fact.
Great episode!
Thank you.
I feel that if the new members contribute to the band creatively, (writing songs, lyrics etc) then I’m usually okay with it. With the artists of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s getting older and passing, there will be many acts with only one original member. Ce’st la vie I guess 🙁
I disagree with the notion: “well, they’ve been in the band now for twenty years. . . “ That’s poor logic. Just bc someone has “tenure” so to speak doesn’t mean they are the right fit, good, etc
Wishbone Ash is another band with just one original member. They sound great live and their last album was good but having recently seen Martin Turner plays “Wishbone Ash” that band sounded more authentic, maybe it was because of his melodic bass and vocals certainly he was an original member and cowrote the classic tracks.
Another good example.
Marshall Tucker Band and April Wine are also just cover bands at this point.
I am on board with Parish on AC/DC. Been a fan since the late 70s and Brian is as much of a member in my eyes as anyone else. I think the covid shut down did these guys no favors as Pwrup and a tour right after would have been much better. No Phil, or Cliff really hurts, and I'd rather see a few big shows here and then a few there with those guys instead of a big tour without them. The best reason to go see them is probably because this is the end though after watching the Power Trip show that might not be a bad thing. I always felt with those 2 and Mal they really anchored that band and afforded Angus and Brian (or Bon) to let loose up front.
I totally agree. The Power Trip videos did make me think twice. But I decided I’d probably regret it if I didn’t go.
Never knew about Jack Hughes being considered as a replacement for Genesis.Wow.
I am trying to imagine him doing Home By The Sea or Abacab.
Those last two Kansas albums have been amazing! Cant recommend them enough.
Very interesting topic. I'll mention a not much talked about band...Tank. I refuse to accept a band recording and touring calling themselves Tank without Algy Ward. Singer,bass player,main songwriter.It's nothing less than Motorhead without Lemmy or Black Sabbath without Tony Iommi. Hey,Martin,When are you and maybe Pete Pardo to do an album ranking of Tank?
Good call, totally agree. Algy Ward is Tank
@@parishofrock2963 I should check them out,as I have always liked Algys work in The Damned.
@@adamsmashups4839definitely worth checking out
I’m surprised The Who was not mentioned. Unless I missed it. I suppose Kenney Jones role in The Who has been discussed for decades. He’s no Keith Moon obviously. But he doesn’t have to be. I personally love both albums Jones is on from the 80’s.
Roger didn’t !
I believe Johnnie Fingers is living in Japan since many years and that is propably the main reason why he hasn't been a part of The Boomtown Rats reunions. But I agree with Martin, their first three albums are much stronger than the rest.
That probably explains it. I should research it I guess.
I was happy when Back in Black came out for AC/DC, but got bored/tired of it within months and never bought another AC/DC record again. They lost their edge to me.
Totally agree. But to be fair: it is hard to replace a charismatic and cool guy like Bon. Brian is a nice guy but lacks swagger. And I can‘t stand his voice.
Yep. Bon era was the real band
I'm an Aussie & l agree, BJ was a great replacement for Bon's untimely demise, but they were done by Flick of the Switch, & that's exactly what l did, flicked the Switch.
Yes is one of my favourite bands. Although I like most of Yes’s latest album, Yes finished for me when Jon Anderson was kicked out. Now they are down to just Steve Howe as the original guitarist from the classic era. Most folk don’t realise how powerful Jon Anderson’s vocals were, particularly live. I think Jon Davison vocals are too delicate and no where close to the grit of JA , Steve is playing ever more economically and the keyboards are missing something. Billy Sherwood’s bass is pretty good but we miss Chris.
No Jon wasn't a deal breaker for me but with Chris and Alan both gone now it's over for me. Also I was excited at first for Geoff Downes' return but it ended up being a total disappointment. I wish Steve Howe would do more like Steve Hackett and honour music from all through his career with musicians he really wants to play with.
The Patrick Moraz thing with the Moodies; My understanding is, he wanted to contribute/write,/stretch out more, but basically was not allowed to. He was IN the band but my feeling is he was more a hired hand than a full member. The first two albums with him are excellent - Long Distance Voyager and The Present. They had a few big hits after that, but those titles mentioned above were the last real comprehensive, beginning to end great albums.
"Long Distance Voyager" is my #1 of all time, and "The Present" not far behind. I saw them for the first time live on that 1983 tour and most of "The Present" was played, along with a big chunk of "LDV". I'll disagree regarding "Other Side of Life" & "Sur La Mer" because I love those as well - though I understand that the absence of Ray Thomas on those albums (while he was still officially a member of the band) leaves a bad taste in some fans mouth. One of those people was Patrick Moraz, who tried to push for more Ray lead vocals and songwriting at the same time that producer Tony Visconti wanted to spotlight Hayward & Lodge as the main writers and band leaders. I saw all of the Moodies 80s tours from "The Present" onwards, and Patrick & John Lodge were always the two most enthusiastic players on stage, stealing the show at times. Todd gets it partly right in this video. The big problem started after a tour they did in 1990 when they were between new albums. Patrick did an interview with Keyboard Magazine in which he aired some of his grievances with the band, some of which you have already mentioned. While he never said anything about the Moodies being weak musicians as is stated in this video (he said quite the contrary in their later court case) he did criticize them for how slow they worked in the studio, stating that on the song "In My World" he did his keyboard part in one take, it took the others a few weeks to finish recording the song. He also said that he was not feeling challenged by the newest material, right at the time that they were starting to record "Keys of the Kingdom". The Moodies apparently saw an advance copy of the interview and it is more than likely what ended his tenure with the band. As much as I loved Patrick in the band, knocking their upcoming new album before the public had had a chance to hear it was a bad move on his part. During this time a VHS documentary/compilation album called "Legend of a Band" was released, and Patrick's interview segments were left out (though he is mentioned in the doc). This was the next sign that things were changing, and a few months later he was told that he was told by manager Tom Huellet that he would not be included on the band's next tour or any further recording sessions. And btw, Patrick, who is very talkative & friendly with fans, that he regretted that Keyboard interview and was feeling under the weather when he gave it...I was lucky enough to meet Patrick in 1988 on the "Sur La Mer" tour and he was super warm & friendly, with a fun sense of humor.
Nice background info and assessment. I have to agree with Moraz though, the material after The Present wasn’t as challenging musically. And Ray’s absence doesn’t help that situation, but it’s not the only reason for me those albums overall aren’t as artistically successful. Patrick was, for me, correct on both his assertions though; 1.) The albums after The Present could have used more of Ray’s AND even Graeme’s writing/input. 2.) The Moody’s approach after 83’ updated their sound with the technology of the day, BUT it was also geared more toward a pop sensibility and was less adventurous musically. While this yielded a couple great and very successful singles, (which I love!), the overall quality of the album cuts, for me, suffered. The album long cohesiveness was lacking. When i play LDV or The Present, it’s an album long listen. Albums after that I pick and choose which songs to listen to. I saw them on the 86’ tour. Thanks again for the great background!
@@davescryptodays1441excellent comments. I fully agree. I also saw that 1986 tour. Loved it. I don't feel the need to own any full albums after The Present. The singles are great, but I'm fine with having them on a compilation. It would have been cool to see what they could have done with Patrick as a full writing member.
Martin, early Skynyrd had no personality? Next thing you know you would say Blizzard Of Ozz sounds like disco. Oh wait a minute, you did. You are definitely a contrarian, some of your opinions are definitely out there in la la land.
I think there is much "Tribute shows" in the future.
A friend of mine went to see Mark Knopfler a few years ago. He thought it was okay but wasn't impressed. Seeing him in a big arena for much money.
I've seen "Dire Straits Tribute". A tribute act that is really good. It's not Mark Knopfler but paying less, have a better view and probably see a better show... How is that bad? Is it THAT important to say "I've seen Mark Knopfler" even if he wasn't that great?
Not knocking Mark Knopfler I even think his new release sounds cool but isn't the actual music the main thing? If that is solid.. What's the problem?
Good points. I saw ProgJect, a classic prog rock cover band last year. They were cheap, up close and amazing.
++ Thumbs up for Riot V & Queensryche ++
Yes
Fleetwood Mac
Chicago
Came to my mind
I agree with his assessment of Type O Negative.
If they did something different like maybe a female singer but I don't think Josh would ever come back to music, and Kenny and John are working on Eye Am so really no need.
There was a fake editorial online like 6 years ago that TON was reforming with Glen Danzig.
How in the freaking hell can you perform Dreams I'll Never See with only one guitar?!
Blue Oyster Cult and Jethro Tull are my two. It's just not the same.
Sabbath, Rainbow and whitesnake. For different reasons
I'll watch this later today but this should be really good. This is one of those things that's completely subjective and up to the individual fan, I think. I've had it easy in that my favorite band is Rush so the band is/was the band, period. I never had to wonder "I wonder who will be playing drums on this next tour?" But I was watching a bit of the recent rock cruise footage on Grant's channel and you see bands like 38 Special where it's just Don Barnes and a bunch of other guys who might as well be random guys from a local bar. Is that really 38 Special at this point? Yes and Kansas and Foreigner and Journey and others are just shells at best. But I guess as far as most people are concerned if they play the songs in a recognizable way and they can buy a T shirt at the show I don't really think they care.
That Queen could have replaced Freddie and go on as a recording band might be one of the most ridiculous suggestions i've heard yet. I'd think Brian and Roger are aware of that hence the path they took, they can still function as a live act with Adam Lambert. For the audience it is a fun night out.
Happy to disagree on Skynyrd & REO. They've both been great with the replacement members.
I agree on LS. I’ve only seen REO on YT clips but I have to say I’d definitely go if they came across to the uk.
I think the E Street Band is essentially the drummer, pianist, and the bassist (and Bruce of course) Lose any one of them and it ceases to be the E Street band IMO
I gave up on The Church when Marty Willson-Piper left.
Then Peter left…..again.
KISS gets a thumbs down. Eric Singer in particular has impressive credentials and both replacement members have held their positions longer than their predecessors, but their discography is terribly lacking compared to all past KISS lineups and now they are avatars.
Fair point.
Correct answer:
KISS
😂😂
KISS Mark 1. 2, 3, 4
All versions have great tunes.
Buckingham refused to tour, remember?
Pinder became impossible to work with.
Concerning Andersson, go listen to some Starcastle.
Put Geordie back together...
Forgot about Animalize...
I agree, let’s start a ‘Geordie should reform’ campaign!! 😂
Ronnie died and his brother stepped up to fill his shoes. I think they're legit. Do I think they're equal to their classic era lineup? Nope. I don't have a problem with them soldiering on all these years but, with Gary's passing, I feel like it's time to put it to bed. You can't replace Phil Lynott. Period! Even with John Sykes singing very well they were nothing more than a tribute to Phil. No way they should continue without him. Kiss? Lineup changes were common place before we even knew they were happening so, I think they were fine continuing on. I have one for you. Black Sabbath. I think they jumped the shark on Seventh Star but, I enjoy that album and Eternal Idol. It gets really spotty for me after that. I don't care for Dehumanizer or The Devil You Know (their name changed to Heaven and Hell but it was Sabbath). Way too many lineup changes for my liking. I would have been fine with Tony going on as Iommi from Seventh Star forward and appreciated those albums on their own merit separate from the Sabbath legacy. Maybe allow for any combination of two or more members from Geezer, Ronnie, Ozzy or Bill, with Tony,(meaning at least three members from the first two lineups to legitimize them) to give the title Black Sabbath to an album again but, I'm not a big fan of much of the catalog after Eternal Idol. I like 13 more than most all of that half of the band's output.
Generally agree with you on Sabbath. I do like Dehumanizer, but other than that, everything after Eternal Idol (including 13) is lesser quality. I think they were trying to hard to sound like themselves on 13. Plus, I never really forgave them for Bill Ward's absence. That's a whole other show though. 😂
Last in Line had a strong claim to legitimacy with Schnell and Bain in the band, but they quickly dismissed Schnell and Bain tragically passed away. Their discography has been lackluster and the band is shrouded in Vivian Campbell's antagonistic history with Dio as well as his role in Def Leppard, which mostly involves playing songs from before he was in the band. Campbell's greatest creative achievements were the results of his collaboration with a man he denigrated for many years and Last in Line pales in comparison to Dio, which is a shame considering the potential.
Vivian’s best playing was with river dogs back in the 90s the songwriting was strong and Vivian’s guitar solos where his best ever
vivian criticised ronnie over breaking the financial promises he made - which ronnie renaged on - vivian has a valid point - he never denigrated the gr8 music they made - he has every right to play the old dio stuff he co wrote
Boston without Brad Delp thumbs down for me though I do like Fran Cosmo.
These legacy acts are stale and should be playing the county fair circuit.REO,Styx,Foreigner,Kansas and the like are still playing arenas in package tours.Nostalgia will always sell at the expense of new music.
Not sure that’s fair to Styx or Kansas , both have released excellent new albums, that rank amongst their best, over the last few years.
Do you mean new music as in new bands or legacy acts are sacrificing being creative to just tour on the old stuff ? If the latter the answer is people don't buy new albums by these bands. Personally it wouldn't stop me from making new music if I was in their shoes but I understand it completely. The crowds they are playing to don't want to hear new material in concert - they want the hits and so that's what a lot of these bands do. It's their living after all and they have bills to pay, families to tend to so who can begrudge them that? It's all supply and demand.
@@stevefletcher6163
I mean the legacy acts.I agree about the supply and demand and being able to provide.I just think these bands are stale.There is fresh and new music everywhere in any genre you can think.@@ButchArgus
Midge Ure in Ultravox, although successful, is definitely a thumbs down.
Foxx was on another level.
I actually prefer the later stuff with Midge.I like John Foxx solo more than I like Foxxvox.
I agree that the lead singer is probably the most irreplaceable member of any band. Hence my complete disinterest in Uriah Heep after David Byron was fired (plus the albums themselves had gotten weaker towards the end of that era). I also preferred the Fish era of Marillion, simply because he had a very distinctive voice. I find Hogarth, while a technically capable singer, has a very generic voice and would be easily replaceable.
Pantera without the brothers is one for me , I don’t mind them touring that old material as a tribute . In much the same way I don’t mind Lizzy . They E gotta do the same thing and change the name if they’re gonna write new material . No Dime and Vinny no pantera . Much the same as some one mentioned no Pete steel no Type O
Nazareth with only Pete Agnew remaining. I don't believe he sings, I don't know how much he contributed to the songwriting, but carrying on after the other three guys have gone, with your own son on drums? Not so much a band as a source of income.
I’m with you. It’s not Nazareth!
Martin era 'Sabbath' was one lineup to many for me, totally destroyed their credibility with one disastrous weak album after another & hit the wall hard with Forbidden.
No mention of VH which was 2 different bands between Sam&Dave. Gary just wasn t a good fit at all. Whitesnake as well they have had so many members and I think DC is the only one left.
I wish Richie would leave BOC.
So he could do his own stuff?
@@billschuster6680 So he could stop ruining Hot Rails To Hell with his vocal nonsense and take his garbage songs with him.
Only thumbs down for me is Journey. Loved them with Perry, Augeri, and Soto. Pineda sucks. I will never see them again as long as he is still in the band.