"From the River to the Sea": Omer Bartov on Contested Slogan & Why Two-State Solution Is Not Viable
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- Опубликовано: 9 ноя 2023
- Israeli American scholar Omer Bartov says the two-state solution is dead after decades of Israeli settlement building in the West Bank, making the creation of an independent Palestinian state all but impossible. He says a one-state solution - a single democratic state for all Jewish Israelis and Palestinians - is also unlikely to work given the competing national visions of the two communities. "The only solution is a confederation," says Bartov, describing a scenario in which two states would be closely intertwined and interdependent. He also discusses the phrase "from the river to the sea," used by both Israelis and Palestinians to refer to the land.
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If the idea of Palestinians being free "from the river to the sea" offends them, image how they will react to ALL PEOPLE being free EVERYWHERE.
Yes free of Hamas!
@jeremiasrobinson, the controversy over the slogan is that there are two interpretations of it by people who use it.
(1) For some they use it to mean Palestinians will be free, but not about the destruction of Israelis.
(2) For others they use it to mean Palestinians will be free, by destroying Israel.
Israel and the supporters of Israel of course think anyone using the slogan means (2).
All people being free from democracy everywhere in order to enjoy the freedom of the caliphate and Sharia, you mean?
@@MusingsFromTheJohn00They don't actually believe (2). Nobody does. They pretend to because they want to pose as victims and justify killing children
Because it does mean number 2 regardless of any other justification you want to think
No country should be allowed based on ethno religious supremacy
Tell that to all other countries in the world where that is the case.
Tell it to Saudi Arabia
@@slavalib7587the western media already depicts Saudis and Arabs as violent extremist and misogyny/antiLGBTQ, as if that’s not also happening in the western countries
As a Muslim I agree because the world belongs to all human beings, rules should justice everyone.
Especially since you cannot enter this religion if you want to, as it is a religion that is closed on itself
I have no power to enact this, but if it was up to me, every last settler in the West Bank would be dragged out by their heels, just like we saw in 2005, and their buildings and infrastructure turned over to the Palestinians. If the Israelis want the land so bad, then they should have annexed it formally and offered citizenship to the residents, just like they did in the Golan, or at least integrated it as an autonomous, self-governing region. Instead they have used violence to enact an illegal land grab, doing their best to make life unbearable for the Palestinians with their checkpoints, walls and resource appropriation, in the vain hope that the Palestinians will pack up and go. Not only is it immoral, its stupid; they don't have anywhere else to go. Its impossible to tell now, but if the Israelis had tried to incorporate the West Bank into Israel constructively, its possible Arafat's terrorist campaign in the late 80s might have never have got off the ground.
👍🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸❤❤❤☪️✝️🇵🇸🇵🇸👍❤❤❤
STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH PALESTINE🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸..May they be free from.opression..Genocide must STOP❤💚🖤
Well they offered to give it back to Jordan but Hussein didn’t want it and after the events of Black September in 1970 it’s easy to see why.
Arafat is not a terrorist. WE DONT FORGET VIETNAM. IRAQ, LIBYA, AFGHAN. WHO THE REAL TERROR IS
If every freedom movement is called terrorism than so was George washington and all the rebellious yankees. They were too terrorist
This isn't just happening in the U.S., this is a coodinated effort in many countries
Continued world pressure as never been seen before will break an already weak joe.Believe it.
@ishaks8152 break which way though? Joe and his family have made crooked deals with every country on the planet.
@@PuppetMaster112 Most western governments don't care. I won't be surprised if they do some inside job to influence people to support their crimes.
@@PuppetMaster112say that when it comes to the presidential race.
Let's see how much will Joe care then.
All the world leaders used the words "unconditional support" at the exact same time.
Every western nation is in the palm of israel's hand.
The Israel minister said to nuke Gaza that worst than Palestinian slogan.
No one repeated that idea, let alone became a national slogan…
Anti-Zionist, anti-Israel, anti-genocide, anti-ethnic cleansing, anti-apartheid, and anti-occupation are NOT anti-Semitic!
Jews have heard similar garbage for 1900 years. Sorry, but your word counts for Bupkis these days. There must be an Israel due to the Jew hatred of you people.
Anti-Israel and not anti-Semitic. Do you contradict yourself often?
@@elkobit7415 Palestine is occupied by Zionists. Zionists do not practice Judaism. Therefore anti-Israel is NOT anti-Semitic.
@@elkobit7415Israel is a colonial ethnostate. Much like the US and Canada. The only difference is that we can stop Israel's government and military now in the modern day.
Zionism literally means believing there should be a Jewish state- Israel. If you are anti-zionist, you believe that there should be no Jewish state- Israel. This means if you are anti-zionist, that you are for the destruction of Israel and the murder/expulsion of 9.6 million Israeli's, of whom about 75% are Jewish. Anti-Zionist is anti-semitic, and a call for another Jewish Holocaust and the destruction of Israel.
Israel protects its civilians with rockets, Hamas protects their rockets with civilians 😳
'Since the beginning of the occupation in 1967, Israeli security forces have repeatedly used Palestinians in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip as human shields' (B’Tselem - Israeli Human Rights organisation)
@@darrenjamrock2677 lol, the less you know the funnier you are 😂😂😂😂😂
Condemning Israel's war CRIMES isn't antisemitism! Palestinians are Semites as well.
Semantics
Ignoring hamas brutal attacks on civilians and calling it de colonization, or petendenig october 7 didnt happen, is antisematism.
We are not allowd to be killed and butherd just because we are israelis.
The term “antisemitism” does not refer to hostility to Semitic people in general. You can love Palestinians and still be an antisemite.
Yes it does Israel is the victim they shouldn't be condemned at all
Arabs are 90% of the sematic race!
In lands where olive groves once swayed,
Now dwell the cries of hearts betrayed,
Where Palestinians face a dire fate,
Bound by an oppressive, relentless state.
In West Bank's soil, a struggle brews,
Where apartheid reigns and justice strews,
May Allah heed the earnest plea,
For the persecuted to be set free.
Unlawful killings, unjust detainment's snare,
A relentless plight, a burden to bear,
Restrictions, punishments, a heavy toll,
As families endure an unforgiving role.
Denied self-determination, rights denied,
Amidst land grabs, homes razed with pride,
Forced from lands, their roots torn away,
Palestinians face an unyielding sway.
In Gaza's strip, a blockade severe,
Collective punishment they're made to bear,
Basic rights withheld, a plight unjust,
Humanitarian aid, a crumbling trust.
Through threats and violence, their days unfold,
Imposed by soldiers, settlers bold,
Impunity cloaks these acts of pain,
As voices silenced, cries remain.
Expression stifled, freedoms curtailed,
Under harsh regimes, where rights are assailed,
Tortured, silenced, their spirits strained,
The Palestinian heart, pained and pained.
Daily lives, a varied sight,
From farming fields to protests' might,
Working hard in myriad ways,
Navigating through their tumultuous days.
Survival gleaned from diverse sources,
Yet uncertainty lingers, future divorces,
Two states or one, the question remains,
A stark reality through constant chains.
The Palestinian authority, a voice so frail,
Struggles against a mighty gale,
Divided, weakened, under duress,
Their power stifled, hopes in distress.
May Allah grant solace, strength, and might,
To those facing the darkest night,
In the West Bank's arduous span,
May mercy and support grace the land.
Excellent poetry. Extremely sad cause.😢😢😢
I really don’t like Netenyhu
This news station is a joke that is nothing more than liberals shoving their shit down to us all... BIAS 150%
It used to be worth watching a long time ago...
Well phrased. This is a daily, hourly crisis caused by a few cruel minds.
May someone/something have sway over Netanyahu to stop this violence against the Palestinians.
Godspeed peacemakers 💔🇵🇸🫂
I believe that the nations that supported the creation of an Israeli state did so to avoid Jewish immigration to their own countries after WWII. Giving Jews territory belonging to someone else was "win, win".
Free free Palestinè
NO ONE IS CONDEMNING HAMAS FOR HOLDING HOSTAGES AND USING SCHOOL AND HOSPITAL AS A COMMAND POST, IN MOST WESTERN MEDIA.THE ARE MORE CONCERN ABOUT GAZA AND NOT THE HOSTAGES.
The Israeli government is doing nothing for the hostages. That's the sad truth
Thats totally wrong. The initial phase of this conflict was only covered from the Israeli side. Hamas was rightly condemned, people did sympathise with the innocent israelis killed and kidnapped. But now they cant cry anymore because israel has killed 10 times more innocents. The israeli state screwed up all the sympathy they were getting. And that was precisely what hamas was relying on
You mean they are more concerned about over 4000 dead children out of over 10.000 civilans,a humanitarian crises caused by the israeli siege, shutting down electricity, water, food bc als Palestinians getting punished for the crimes of view Hamas members? Which they couldn't even vote out if they wanted bc there was no voting since 2006? You mean the media shows to much about the bombing refugee camp bc if 1 Hamas commander?
Right right..
Ok ...
I think you miss the news, it was the IDF that used the hospital as a command post. One of these hospitals was the Indonesian Hospital because it was one of the tallest buildings in that area, also wasn't the IDF who shot the hostages who ran towards them even though they were waving white flag and speaks Hebrew?
Clear take from Bartov. He acknowledges his bias, integrates the opposing argument and delivers his reasoned opinion. Excellent.
But he is quite happy to go along with Amy’s disgraceful misrepresentation of why the students were doxxed.
Free Palestine .
Not condemning Hamas is evil sick for the things they did disgusting
One democratic secular state is the only solution in which Jews , Muslims, Christians and others live together with equal rights and responsibilities of citizenship
I agree with you 100%
Israël is the only state in the world that established based on a religion it is not a secular State and will never be
And it is not a democratic state
@@contact594 what vacation bible school told you that?
@arshadwaheed a secular state would not work . Most Muslims do not believe in a separation of religion and state. And based history of violence against religious minorities in the surrounding Arab countries it would just cause more violence.
I'm anti genocidal maniacs and that goes for the jewish type as well. Free Palestine!
One State solution with equal rights for all is the best solution.
That could never happen with the current government of Israel.
What happens to their property which was stolen?
Hamas wants an Islamic state. They want to kill all Jews. It’s in their charter if you cared to do some research
@mrteacher1315, if Israel could combine all of Israel and all of the Palestinian Territory and Jerusalem where Jews and Palestinians all have equal rights, including the right of return, that would be best. But, the hatred between these two groups probably makes that impossible.
Thus a two state option I think is the only solution, but it can only work if a third party military occupied the Palestinians or the benefit of the Palestinians to then protect Palestinians from Israel, but also protect Israel from the Palestinians, while providing general armed security for the Palestinian population. That will be very hard to achieve, because other countries do not want to make the effort required to do it.
It's the ideal solution but I don't know if it's workable in the current conditions. Enough people would have to be willing to be citizens of this state first, Jews or Palestinian second. I fear that's a long way off.
From the river to the sea Palestine will be free. Period
It's very free now.
this is stupidity at highest level. Just go for two state solution and live peacefully. River to the sea slogan is just aggressive sloganeering without any plan.
@@nikhilkay1 There's hardly any land after Israhell Territorist settlers took illegally most of Palestine's land. That's the very reason why all the conflicts.
@@mijanurrahman4274 is land better than peace, stability and prosperity?
If all Americans ;Indigenous, settelers, former slaves and immigrants can live peacfully why all Middle east can live peacefully.
This issue can be solved political not bombs.
Thank you Prof.Bartov for your contribution for Humanity.
Yeah he supports Genocide of Palestinians
He is a horrible liar
Bartov goes along with the interviewer’s shocking misrepresentation of what motivated the doxxing at Harvard.
@@MrAlexsegalnot really. Were there some justifying Hamas’s actions, yes, and that is problematic. But those billionaires and their Israel supporters stayed silent about Israel murdering thousands and committing terrorist acts every day, and they did nothing to call out Israel supporters that spouted genocidal rhetoric. They were not pro human rights and this doxxing was not pro human rights. They were merely pissed about rhetoric against Israel and some rhetoric against Israeli people. They were not pissed about Israel committing genocide.
How long would Palestine be free? How did the Arab Spring turn out?
❤ FREE FREE PALESTINE FREE FREE PALESTINE LONG LIVE PALESTINE, ❤ PALESTINE
These same students issued a letter roundly condemning Israel who hadn’t even responded!
The donors who rescinded job offers! Fabulous idea. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall when they realized that there was going to be consequences!!!
I wish mainstream media would interview Dr. Bartov and give him a voice.
A much, much needed dialogue. The twisting of sayings, the framing by media is so sobering. I’m remembering when Putin’s Russia invaded Ukraine. Many news outlets spoke on their shock on how something like this happens in a “civilized, European country” and that it always happens in “undeveloped” countries.
Not so difficult to understand when you know that the same countries meddle in the politics of Israel as meddle in those of Ukraine, that there is always money and coercion involved and that the same media outlets are the voice of those governments, not that of the people as they should be.
@democracynow please also have experts speak about the financial gains for the UK, US, Israel ie trillions in oil reserves in Gaza and the creation of a canal.
Dr. Bartov your words on your proposed government of two states are music to my ears, and salve to my sorrows. Brunonians think alike…. I hope your idea prevails
Unimaginable. Also in the long run the one-state would not benefi the Israelis assuming the Palestinians were given the right to vote. This is why Israel does not want a one state. Israel would cease to exist, but perhaps that is the only just resolution.
from the river to the sea, be Palestinian free.
I like the solution but when Israel has a 500 Billion GDP and their concentration camp known as Palestine has a 20 Billion GDP the solution has to come with reparations.
Why Israiel not be declared as a teirriorist for what it did and is still doing?
Could it be because they are a client state of the most prominent terrorist organization in the world - the US? The world knows about US atrocities but dares not label it terrorism. The US's protection of Israel confers them the same immunity.
Bravo 😂 👏👏👏👏👏 Standing ovation !
Because they’re not.
@@davidreidenberg9941 Is killing 4000 children not terrorism? Is killing 3000 women not terrorism? Is cutting food, water and power to 2 million people not terrorism?
@@SadaK-tr6dmIt's terrorism only when brown people do it. When white people murder hoards of civilians it's "self defense ".
What about all the Palestinians who had their homes and lands stolen? What if the Palestinian cannot afford a residence where they once lived?
Oh Amy. The students were doxed because they signed a resolution blaming Israel for HAMAS attack, not because of protesting. Keep it real.
Amy’s treatment of this matter was quite disgraceful. Bartov just goes along with it!
@@MrAlexsegal Bartov can’t see the forest for the trees. I can’t belief he called Jews nazis. Way to arm the haters with fresh propaganda! I couldn’t find the peace symbol so I’m sending you 🩵💚💛🧡s in it’s place.
HAMAS’S actions are a direct result of Israel’s fascist, apartheid policies.
It been 1 month already go learn History and stop believe in news ,Hamas IS created because israeli occupation and opression
Thanks, professor, for speaking the truth ❤
its an opinion and he is suggesting a solution that wont work
@@morrisonreed1 He's a professor who's studied this, so his idea is rooted in many vital facts you & I may not even know. So it's an informed opinion rooted in facts - which makes it important.
I do agree with you his idea won't work. But that doesn't mean we give up. There are other 2-state solutions that can work. I described one here yesterday which keeps both peoples apart, minimizing the possibility of violence from either side. I feel both must be kept separate for a few decades. They're like two brothers, one who's bigger but a bully & the other is starving but angry and weak. Raise them in separate bedrooms. That's the 2-state solution.
@@keep-ukraine-free528 im not saying give up and you cant know what and how much ive studied . so his title of professor has less weight with me .There are many professors that lack common reality based since because they live in a fantasy world .I dont think he is one of them I just think his solution is flawed .Other than that small point I agree with you completely ,,, well said. .
Prophets claim to speak "the truth", professors talk science, they give opinions.
You talk about free people, slaves of no god, concerned and emphatic.
Free people have opinions, they do not claim to know The TRUTH.
He is very far from the truth
I hate that truck that smears people. I have seen it in action and it is a pathetic way to get any message across.
Free Palestine from Hamas!
"SET PALESTINE FREE" ----- "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA".
“Free Palestine from the sea to the river” means that Palestine returns to what it was before 1948, where Muslims, Jews, and Christians live with equal rights and in a non-racist state.
Does it really mean that?
So, in other words, the guest agrees that from the river to the sea is a call for annihilation and expulsion.
Not simple as that, he stated that the use of the slogan must make way for a diverse, indiscriminate-of-ethnicity singular state as explained in the answer to the last question. I take it as an acknowledgement that ethnicities from both sides are valid and there thus must definitely be a one-state from the river to the sea, but one with policies that can unite what are now Palestinians and Israelis. Both have rights to self determination and that must be accomodated for the proposed new Palestine. Those are my two cents.
@@gwarchive listen again. He didn't say what you think he said.
A one-state solution is the only way. All modern countries are doing it. Living cohesively with other ethnicities and combating racism is the way forward.
One land, one people, one government, freedom, and equal representation.
Israelis' superior race claim and behaviour is pathological. So....
Oil and water don’t mix. Israel is Israel, Palestine is Palestine. They have nothing in common with each other, and don’t want to share a country, and a constant demographic battle
Non starter. The Jewish ppl won’t become the next genocide victims of the Sunni Arab death cult.
Try telling that to Netenyahu and co...
Sry, but a one-state solution would stop working the moment another Netanyahu would take over, be it a Zionist or a Sunni one.
The doxxing of Harvard students was appalling. But both participants in this video falsely and irresponsibly create the impression that the students were doxxed merely because they were protesting against Israel.
Go lie elsewhere fascist .
Amy Goodman sounds like a teenager complaining to her parents; 'I'm reading the Likud charter and it says there's no place for Palestinians here, why can't Palestinians say there's no place for Jews here?' Well done mr Bartov, directing her question to the much more essential question of interpretation and how the territory should be shared..
I think the confederation solution is interesting. Although it can get pretty bloody if people choose to stay where they are without enjoying Israeli government's security. So either it's their own call, or some kind of transition period might be needed (calculated reducing of Israeli control) during which trust can be regained between the parties.
A two-state solution with big big concessions on Israel's part in the West Bank (they own this to the Palestinians) might still be the most realistic after all. I'm not sure..
it's a red herring question anyway. Everyone knows that Israel is the one carrying out what Likud intended right now! Big concessions on the West Bank. You think? They are currently murdering Palestinians carte blanche. Do you really think they will stop and hand it back?
Thank you very much for explaining the different intrepretation of this sentence. It is no call for violence.
There is an Israeli song that wishes Palestinians, “may your village burn down.” Unfortunatelly, this is exactly what it is happening now in Westbank.
Israel is committing a genocide, so the feelings of the Israeli people about an emancipatory chant and not top of my priorities
It is worth reading what Wikipedia says about the meaning of the expression “from the river to the sea”. Neither speaker in this video manages to say anything that refutes the Wikipedia account. The kind of journalism at issue in this video seems to me to be quite irresponsible.
Wikipedia is just an open source. It is not a scientific reliable source for academic research.
I go for the academic source, Professor Researcher Bartov.
But did you listen to what Bartov actually says? He questions the value of even thinking about the meaning of expression! Why do people trust this man? Incredibly Amy seeks no clarification. This is journalism at its worst - journalism complicit with antisemitism.
@@MrAlexsegal You assume Wikipedia is a reliable source. It's a crowd-sourced repository of information. This means it might have correct info, it might have false info. Most articles seem to be correct with bits of opinion, conjecture, misinformation, disinformation, and lies. A few articles are outright lies or fabrications - especially those edited by Chinese, on topics they want to spin. What you find on a Wikipedia article depends on who last edited it. Anyone can add or lie on it.
Rely on trustworthy sources, like scholarly & academic sources. Learn HOW to learn the truth. Don't "google stuff".
I prefer the two States solution without settlers in the West bank
How long do you think it would it take before extreme Islamists would gain control of that state and then become a dagger right into the heart of Israel?
As an israeli, that is my wish too. Netanyahu has been ruining any chance for this solution in the last twenty years, by weaking the palestinian authority and stregthening hamas.
@@davidreidenberg9941go learn History Hamas IS created because israeli occupation and was funded by natanyahu to counter PLO to not créat a Palestine state
Very useful discussion,especially over this slogan, reminding people that the Israeli Likud party had used this phrase in their 1977 election platform.
And since then the Palestinian Authority was created, and she rules the lives of most the Pals. And Gaza was taken by Hamas. So, going back to 1977 (46 years ago) is stupid. Today everyone knows what does it mean. And nobody is hiding it. It means killing and\or displacement of all the Jews. By somebody, whose major contribution to the world is nationwide terrorism.
Slowly but surely people are beginning to see that false Christian Zionist nationalism has become a dangerous political tool for the evangelical extremists in the U.S. government.
Rabbis are mobilising to denounce this violence.
If the universal message of Christianity is to mean anything, the evangelical church should also take responsibility and condemn this racist extremism.
I think the one state solution is the most prospective option. It worked in Canada, it can work in the Middle East. It would make the equality of all the humans living there legal. This would prevent de-humanisation.
We need to talk about islam first, because muslims dehumanize me every day, and they simply can't stop doing that.
And I am not even gay, jew, christian or hindu, yet they believe I should burn in hell unless I change myself completely.
Lol. Hilarious analysis.
@@waterbottles4744You might as well laugh at Moishe Dayan. You think so?
I would laugh at him. He was wrong. He should have listened to the ideas of Meir Kahane. There would be peace now. Moshe Dayan was completely wrong.@@republica13
1 state: Palestinerael here Israelistine there!
There's only ONE STATE...COUNTRY & THE STATE OF 🇵🇸 🇵🇸 🇵🇸
From 1948. Nobody can defeat Israel.
This didn't happen in a vacuum. Remember the Nakba.
Exactly
All about land grab,plain and simple.
Who does not punishes crime,commands crime😢😢
@amygoodman
The problem with the conversation in the West is the constant reference to “Jews” and “Palestinians” when the issue is between the government of Israel and the displaced citizens of Palestine. The constant conflation of Jews/Judaism and Israel contributes to antisemitism and anti-Islamic sentiment. Regardless who’s talking, that misreference needs to stop.
but the difficulty there is that it is Israel itself that claims to represent not merely its citizens, but the interests of Jewish people in general; I agree that the two should not be conflated, but the whole project of Political Zionism in the first place creates that conflation.
Israel must pay for their atrocities against Palestine
"From the River to the Sea" sounds almost identical to
"From SEA to Shining Sea"
How about some reporting on "Peace
There must be some left in the world!?
It's getting to be the "war" report
I know it's extremely important
But maybe Just a Little bit of contrast
Could make a brighter day?
Democracy When?
His idea of a two-state confederation with citizenship/residency rights for both Israelis and Palestinians is the best one I have heard so far. A two-state setup is no longer possible because of Israeli encroachment on Palestinian lands. Free trade between the two, access to airports and ports, shared police and militaries ...
Basically the Annan plan
I agree. There is still the problem of terrorism though.
I hope the far right government of Israel will stop propping up Hamas like they have been doing because they're not interested in a compromise.
Sounds good
@@UFOhunter4711Kofi Annan?
I just pray and hope that Palestinian get victory over Israel and they get their occupied land back and live their lives in peace and free Aameen
Why not have 1 state where Palestinians have equal rights?
In the absence of any Palestinian declared policy against Jewish people rather than Zionism, the slogan "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free" should be taken at face value, ie Palestinians (which include Jewish, Muslim, and Christians) simply want to be free in their own land.
It's not their land never was never will be
@@elvangulley3210 Of course, it was their land. In 1900, 95% of the population was Arab Muslim and Christian (85% Muslim, 10% Christian) and most of the 5% Jews were Arabic speaking Jews. So you're trying to tell me Jews in Europe were more connected to the land and the ancients after being gone for 2,000 years? Yeah, that doesn't make sense.
@@QUINTUSMAXIMUS it was never their land Arab kingdoms pushed out 2 different Jewish kingdoms
@@elvangulley3210it was never your land. Palestinians have been living there for thousands of years. Youre from Europe with ZERO percent Semitic dna in you.
You converted to Judaism 1000 years ago, youre not from the 12 tribes of Israel.
You're a European colonizer
@@elvangulley3210it wasnt the arabs it was the Romans. Pick up a history book.
Why lie?
Very enlightening, thanks
THESE MARCH'S SHOULD NOT NOT BE ALLOWED!!!!!!!
The conflict has exposed the brutality of the western hegemony and also that it is in crisis
In my opinion, the two state solution is the root of the present conflict. The UN gave away Palestinian land to create the state of Israel, without Palestinians agreement. Furthermore Israel has never accepted nor complied with the share of land it was allocated. In my view, experience has already proven that land separation is a failed solution. Besides, Israel's citizens have been conditioned to believe that they are supreme and have the right to expand into Palestinian land. So how on earth can that mentality change overnight?... neither side would ever be happy with the two state solution. I have heard Orthodox rabbis, stating that the state of Israel should be dismantled peacefully, and the land returned to Palestine. Maybe that means that the Israeli citizens would be absorbed by whichever country they choose to reside in. Sounds a wise solution to me.
No it doesn't antisemite jews have always lived on that land. There is no such thing as a Palestine it has never existed. It was never their land.
2 truly equal states has bee lip service only from more than a hundred years ago. How this esteemed professor who has studied and written about Israel and Palestine can talk about a 2 state solution at this time is dissociative. Everything that the Israeli government has said and done tells the world that their plan for the future is not for 2 states. The cat is out the bag - apartheid, genocide, crimes against humanity, breaking international laws, war crimes! Someone once said “tell a tree by its fruit”.
LoL .. dismantled peacefully? That's idiotic .
Exactly! The two state “solution” is the root cause of the conflict, so it’s insane people are still pushing it as a solution after so many decades of agony for the Palestinians.
Those are not palestinian's land lmao. Jews and arabs living in british mandated palestine owned some private lands the region. UN gave much of the partition to the arabs, Israel agreed but the arabs refused and attacked them several times since. They lost every time and lost territories in the process, including gaza. Israel tried to give back gaza to egypt but the egyptians refused. Israel left them since 2005.
With all due respect he is suggesting a policy that has a slim chance at best, of working
Speaking of "figleafs", this "scholar's" *particular* idea of a "federated" state is still "a 2-state solution" -- which he previously said was not viable/realistic.
The only *moral* solution is a *free* historic Palestine -- 1 free state -- with absolutely equal rights for ALL people regardless of race, ethnicity or religion, the same thing Jews demand wherever *else* they live in, not only but especially, the political West.
And that was the 1-state moral solution to end apartheid South Africa -- & that's what Nelson Mandela & the ANC demanded there, not a bantustans solution.
With humanity ever evolving, it is destined to destroy itself.
'the Netanyahu government ... who trace their roots back to Rabbi Kahane, who were really Nazis ....' Wait, stop, what? Now that has to be explained, discussed, explored and understood, I would think. Any links out there to help with that detail that flew by?
I too would be grateful for the links you request.
Well I looked up Rabbi Kahane on Wikipedia, who I had never heard of before today, and found this bit of information: “He supported the restriction of Israel's democracy to its Jewish citizens, and endorsed the annexation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[5]”
The citation points to page 270 of his own book “Uncomfortable Questions for Comfortable Jews”. It’s available for digital loan on the Internet Archive. I read a few pages before and after. I’m not sure I’d say he was “really a nazi”, but if most of his rhetoric was anything like what I read on those few pages, I could understand why someone might call him that.
I know that Kahane was a truly horrible, evil person. But where is the evidence of his nazism? Bartov is a historian. He should provide the evidence.
The dude is a political pundit using bad rhetorical points for shock value. Democracy now usually resorts to these people when their position is too unpopular
If thats how zionist interpret the slogan then its only been commited against palestinian whom the majority have been driven out from the coast all the way to the river for the last 75 years
From the Rivier to the Sea! Palestine will be free!! 🇵🇸
They have no rights to steal lands that belong to the Palestinians.
From every river and every sea may all beings be free.
How about the clear genocide of the 1,400+ Israeli’s perpetrated by 2,000-3,000 Palestinian’s trained and sanctioned by Hamas. It isn’t just ignorance from those who chant “from the river to the sea” … it is the intractable view Palestinian’s have held for 70+ years and before that by centuries that Jew’s should be removed from “their” land and if they die that is fine. They do not recognize that Jews are as indigenous to that area as they are.
European Jews are not.
@@valerieconnell2962 It is like saying arab living in London is not indigenous to arabia.
@@natalies4849 European Jews are not indigenous to the Middle East. Neither are American Jews. I am a Canadian Jew. I am not indigenous to the Middle East.
@@valerieconnell2962 But your ancestors were indigenous to Israel. I am israeli jew born in Belarus and never felt that Belarus is my homeland because it really isn't. Have a nice day.
He's telling you his ancestors weren't indigenous to Israel over and over and you're too arrogant and dense to listen , White people aren't from there period .
From the River to the Sea, Judea will be free!!!
A population that has quadrupled in number is not experiencing a genocide.
Losing all their land, is genocide. Living in terror and an open air prison is genocide. Not being allowed on Jewish only land is apartheid.
This guy never truly recognizes the fact that Palestinians were intentionall;y removed from their homes and land in Israel....and were denied citizenship. even though that right was stipulated in the UN resolution that created israel. He just greys the issue very much. | can't respect him a whole hell of a lot. His idea is incredibly ridiculous. Creating states based solely on ethnicity is the worst solution possible, if one wants peace. The only real solution is to give proper rights to all Palestinians, which should have happened in 1948. Israelis have had those rights long ago. Israelis are simply afraid of Palestinian democratic dominance. Tough shit, in my opinion.
I agree with what the professor said regarding the mutual statehood.
It’s no contest. The original intent is the overriding meaning.
I have literally never heard an Israeli use the phrase "from the river to the sea".
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Don,t tell me. Tell your local Mla or representative.
"From the River to the Sea" means Peace from the River to the Sea.
Yes like it was before it got colonized.
@@SalahAlDin1187
True. There hasn't been any peace since fake Jevvs invaded and colonized Palestine.
Many Jews in Israel have duel citizenship. Why? The nerve of some people!
Divide the river to the sea horizontally between the two
Abby you are the Patron Saint of Journalism.
Who???
Any else notice all of the mainstream news at once stopped reporting the daily Gazan deathtoll?
Because everything originating from the Gaza ministry of health must be taken with a grain of salt .
@@davidreidenberg9941when the IDF drops tons of bombs on a densely populated city for a month, don't you think 10000 dead is a reasonable estimate? I bet you take IDF statements as gospel though. Typical.
@@davidreidenberg9941or must bé for us citizen to not knowing for whats hapenning there
The real saying is...from the river to the sea, Palestine will be Jew free.
Imagine 14 million people living between the Jordan River and the sea. There isn't enough water and resources in the region, yet they insist on killing each other. Two of the most tribal societies on the planet behaving worse than wild animals. They need to grow up!
Based on environmental conditions alone they must get along and make it work.
Thank you professor ❤
Interesting, I do think a 2 state solution is fantasy, you'd have to redraw the map with both sides getting an equal split of the land and resources, with equal access to borders. Jerusalem should become a city state, independent from Israelis and Palestinians, with UN protections. Other than that, you just have one unified territory with everyone guaranteed citizenship and the same rights, and then we just brace ourselves for a lot of civil unrest for the next few decades, but either could work, if the US and South Africa could do it, Israelis and Palestinians can too.
Given the history of the last 2000 years, Jews will never give up an Israel whereby they don’t have total sovereignty. Why should they?
If Britain gave your territory (where ever you are from) to someone else, do you think that the just settlement should be to offer you the return of HALF of your land? Personally I would not accept that as justice!
They both had equal amounts of land, the Palestinian people rejected the deal and choose war. They never recognized Israel and never will.
“Unrest for decades”. Lol, They have already had 2 major wars. This is the 3rd
No. It is a Palestinian land. Why even give some land to people from Europe religion doesn’t not give anyone anywhere justification to someone else’s land.
@@90swerethebest10no they don’t have equal land. The British gave 56% of the land to the Jews refugees and now they occupy the land given to Palestinians (44%) and that land is not yours and no religion should justify that.
I love how they act like there can be a political solution to the religious war Hamas is fighting. They clearly do not understand Hamas.
The primary reason for Israel is to create a sanctuary nation for Jews. The one-state solution concept is antisemitic and disrespectful, a complete denial of the holocaust and the Eoropean genocide of Jews. Stop proposing an idea that will never under any circumstances be accepted. That concept is a waste of intellect and is heard with revulsion and nausea by most Jews. The professor's two state confederacy concept is wonderful, but how does he think Israel should handle terrorism by Palestinians (and rewards to their families, if given by the Palestinian government) in that scenario?
I hope the information about this solution is getting into the hands of those International Interventors and Mediators who can bring this about.
Thr US needs to be taken out as being a "broker" for this Solution to become a reality. Indeed there needs to be equal representation at this riund table - somewhat like the group that Hanan Ashrawi was a part of before the secret Olso Accord stopped this groups negotiations.
100% agree. The US needs to stay out of it.
Getting to Yes, by William S Ury of the Harvard Negotiating Project.
Trump did get out of it. We are better off without the UN and Paris Accords but Marxist Obama put us right back in as soon as the election was done being stolen.😂😂😂 You get what you cheated for!
The only solution is for Palestinians to leave they had their chance to live in peace they chose to be terrorists for 70 years
Prof Bartov's modified 2-state solution does not seem tenable. Putting two people with strong animosity to each other, in close proximity with opposing governments sounds like a lose-lose proposition. Human nature and generations of built-up hatred between them requires that they be kept separate, and helped over time to learn to live in peace. This "inter-mixed 2-states" would be a disaster, since violence would flare-up, continuing today's fury.
too complex it needs a single democratic state forced on them by a serious BDS
"From the river to the sea, with a 'ho-ho-ho' and a 'hee-hee-hee'."
Thanks for this, sister.
I would have more sympathy for the Palestinians if they didn't think that the holocaust didn't happen or that it wasn't that big of a deal or something like that. What about all the hostages being held in Gaza right now.
So because some Palestinians deny the holocaust, they deserve to have no rights essentially? They deserve to be bombed relentlessly? What kind of augment is that?? Also, why haven’t you mentioned the THOUSANDS of Palestinian hostages that have been rotting inside Israeli jails for YEARS without due process? Many of them are CHILDREN who haven’t been convicted of any crimes.
This guy speaks all facts. Thank you
Finally 6:46 , I’ve been Waiting for you to talk about that slogan.
River to sea. Long leave Gaza
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Whole world united to save Palestine. Yes we can, all united we can do it!!!
Not ME!!
What for they are Evil 👿
@@holeshothunter5544 You must be for the synagogue of satan where the antichrist will reveal himself when the third temple is built.
@@chipcook6646 The Israeli terrorists are the evil ones.
When the state of Israel was founded, someone proposed a bilateral trade plan to show "reasonableness and fairness." When after the establishment of the state of Israel, the Palestinian people were unable to establish a state for them and the land was continuously eroded by Israel, it is not feasible for someone to replace Israel and wash the negotiation plan now !
Israelis using the "Final Solution" rather than the two-state solution in the Gaza Strip, lessons learned.
I think both nations can make from this place an Oasis of love an forgiveness that is going to teach the world that we are one and must be United.
We are not one, we are many and we differ.
Some religions like to teach us that we all should be united UNDER the rules of that religion, I know. These religions tend to fight each other.
Please forgive all the people that differ from you for wanting different things and doing different things.
@@worfoz If doing different things means genocide, then you answer the world’s question about who must leave the ambition of conquering more land, and they must move where they can live in peace with their neighbors.
I mean:
If Israel feel their people are superior to Arabs, then they must move to a land where the rest can feel superior to Arabs in peace, they should move back to Europe or United State.
I’m sure Israel is loved over these lands.
@@ximenaclaure2524That's the ancestral lands of the Jews, the modern Palestinians are Arabs refugees and immigrants who arrived during the British mandate Palestine.
yes perhaps in several hundred years, but not any time soon.
@@worfoz Your religion is not better than the one of Palestinians religions, I think most Zionists don’t even believe in their religion, they just want more land. Because in the future land is better than gold.
It is greediness!
Some Jews are famous on that.
Before Muslin, Cristians and Jews lived in peace and harmony on that land, until the Greedy EU USA, and England Colonialist feel they can do give away someone’s land as it doesn’t
They want control of the oil of Palestine.🇵🇸