Links to the products featured in this video: Mastercoat: nomorerust.com/store/ Raptor Liner: amzn.to/41XpWRH POR15: amzn.to/41Ihi9p POR15 Topcoat: amzn.to/3RZu5kA KBS: amzn.to/47l5IST Eastwood Rust Encapsualtor Platinum: amzn.to/47eFRM9 Miracle Paint: www.hirschauto.com/Paint/departments/1/ Rustoleum: amzn.to/4aCDaXM Salt Cabinet Parts: Tote: amzn.to/3NT5lYM Mist Maker: amzn.to/3S9QVpN Aquarium Heater: amzn.to/3vv03wo My Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/shop/repairgeek Help support the channel, buy using my Amazon links As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases and your cost is exactly the same.
Each time you put out a Video concerning metal protection, I get way more excited than a person should. I’m not sure anyone else is as committed as you are on doing these long term tests. I very much appreciate the amount of Time, Money, Energy and Thought you put into these tests. Great thorough job!!
Project Farm on RUclips. ❤🛢🕰⚡️🔥🪐🌡🌞🌙🌨🌧⛱️❄️🏗🧨🔎🎥💰⚖️🧯🩺🔬🗜🧲🪛🔨🪚🔧⚗️🧪🧫☢️☣️⚠️🤔🔋🪫🔌,in other words, he is an unbiased,unpaid, dedicated tech-geek. Finding out the truth in brands. Always saving us time and money. 💰 🤑
Because in the year 2023, we still aren't allowed to have a cheap alternative to steel. It must be planned obsolescence that everything is still being made from rusty steel that contains no nickel or chromium in it. Cars are still made from rusty plain steel that has a finite life span? Imagine if the trucks from the 1960's had been made with proper stainless steel cabs, with stainless steel floor pans that didn't dissolve in a few years. We wouldn't have had to crush millions of vehicles, they could be kept on the road with a new modern drive-train.
@@Ritalie Stainless steel is not a cost-effective car material. It also suffers from being poorly magnetic or non-magnetic due to passivation. It also isn't a panacea, the USPS new STD-4C cluster mailboxes (front-loading, wide boxes) still have corrosion issues due to environmental conditions. You are committing to making your car heavy, or making such a thin skin it'd be irreparable if farted on hard enough. It sounds cool, but John DeLorean could have explained why stainless steel cars are problematic better than me.
@@Ritalie Also, while I'm revisiting this, there are other options. The biggest problem is that at the heart of it all, you have to have a frame that protects the people inside from severe blunt-force trauma. Aluminum body panels and some truck beds are/were made of aluminum, but it is less reparable, more expensive per pound, and lacks the inherent strength to survive a serious accident. A stainless steel frame would potentially work, but the cost of, say, one of the 30x series of nonmagetic, fully passivated stainless steels would be about 2-3x the price. Then, all your welds have to be done with TIG which means certified welders or industrial robots, and TIG welding is a slower, more precise process. Volkswagen put a thick layer of tar painted the body color in all its 1st generation watercooled cars (I owned multiple Mk1 Rabbits) and I never saw a single one where said tar was intact with significant rust in the body, although the A pillar and hatch were rust magnets due to the design. We've already accepted owning insanely heavy vehicles (my regular cab pickup with a camper toolbox is close to its max gross of 5400 lbs). What's a little painted tar between friends?
As someone who has fought rust, living in Connecticut for far too long. I am grateful that you put this video together. Ive experimented and wasted a lot of hard work. This is gonna save me so much money in the long run.
As a CT born (Now live in RI) fella, Rustoleum Rust Reformer is the best imo as it’s cheap, sprays on well (as long as your nozzle is clean), dries very, very fast, prevents rust well, and does not care about prep past removing heavy scale so it’s just light, tight rust. Do a few coats and don’t even need to top coat.
This is the first time I have ever been to this channel, and the fact that anyone mentions this being comparable to Project Farm is great news. Havent watched the video yet but I bet I will sub at the end.
Interesting video. I have tried all those products. Been restoring cars for 46 years and find overall Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer" top-coated with Rustoleum paint, which is the longest lasting and is the cheapest product out there to use, for what I use it for. I used Por15 once and never again, as the car I used it on, I had to re-restore all the components the Por15 was used on within five years. Por15 is the perfect name as the product is very poor and 15 times the cost of other products.
Did he use harder in his rustoleum? I think he did it by the instructions and that isn't with adding hardner so it might do much better than it appears in his test with the 4:1:1 mix I have grown to love so much.
Used POR15 heavily in the early 2000’s. Prepped exactly like they wanted. Used their metal prep and everything. Removed all scale and dirt. Only surface rust. In less than a year, it was peeling off in sheets. Rust had traveled under the coating, kind of like powder coating once it’s scratched. Now I clean and prep down to only surface rust, spray with Duplicolor Rust Fix rust converter and top with either Eastwood Rust Encapsulator or Zero Rust. Sometimes I will top coat that with Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black. If I can sandblast down to bare metal, I will prime with Duplicolor self etching primer and paint with Seymour MRO high solids enamel. Sandblasted engine parts get Duplicolor high temp engine primer and engine enamel. Have been pleased with their performance. All of them.
What about a frame that have only minimal rust, just a few chips here and there and plenty of paint, is a Chevy Colorado 2006 is not a lot of rust I just want to stop the few spots and have the frame painted
If you get this, I want to paint a diesel boat engine. It's not in terrible rusty condition and I'll be doing in place (brush not spray). What would you recommend?
I performed chemical comparability and environmental testing for the auto industy for years, and i am very impressed with your methodology and analysis. You are worlds ahead in actual test methods and data collections than almost all the big youtube "test" channels. There are some parts of your test methods you could improve, but you definitely got the core data and you did it without an industry testing sized budget. I am very impressed and just shot you a sub. Cant wait to scroll through your back catalog snd see what you have coming out next.
They use it on bridges as well! Thats a job where quality material is needed, since theres a ton of time involved, which means costs a are high, and need the best product for durability. I used it on restorations and had zero issues. Goes a long way as welL!
DUDE!!!! Great video! Being a DIY'er, the thing that sucks the most is spending time, money, and stress in a project and watching it fail. You have giving us a view into a controlled failure so us DIY'ers can make intelligent informed decisions as to what products actually hold up in certain situations! Thank you as a fellow Northeast Ohioian! Now I know what I'm going to use on my 72 Monte!
I have used POR15 and I agree with the test results for POR15. I found that POR15 worked better as a rubber/fabric cement than a paint. The first time I washed the dirt from the under side of the car, It came off in notebook size sheets. I tried every kind of prep to get it to stay and it failed every time. Sticks to your skin real good though.
I use moisture cure PU mastic as sold for car panel joint sealing as a glue. It’s amazing stuff. It even repairs kids shoes with soles coming off. However it will eventually peel from metals do d would be used over a really good primer. Personally I believe POR-15 is a very similar product. I would consider it as a fuel tank liner but little else.
I agree. POR15 was supposed to do that and that is why I tried it. Used it in many different ways with the same results. followed all recommendations. very good glue though and it works better than epoxy on the garage floor, some of that stuff will be there until the end of time..@@clarkgriswald1768
The first time I used Por15 was 2008 and I was amazed at the results. Fast forward to 2023 and I found myself buying and using it again. I noticed the consistency and finish have changed. The changed has curbed my enthusiasm for the product
I agree, somethings changed. I used it previous and it went on well, flowed out to a great finish and stuck ! Recently used it again and it wasn't the same, prep was same but it just didn't seem to adhere well, certainly not like previous
It used to be really great stuff but something is definitely off, BTW por stands for "paint over rust" it's designed to be used on rusted metal, obviously you want to prep it but it's not supposed to be used over brand new, perfect metal.
I was told that the guy that invented it sold it and the new owners cheaped out on ingredients and essentially watered it down. He then started KBS and improved the old formula. Might be BS but that’s what a supply store told me
I had similar results. Back in the ‘90’s I painted an engine block with the standard black POR15. About 4 years later I took the engine to a machine shop for a rebuild. The machinist called me and said he had put in the acid tank and none of the paint will come of. He said it doesn’t even dull it. He said he could sand blast it off, but I told him, just leave it on. In another example I spilled some on my garage floor and nothing would remove it. I also painted the inside of an old Land Rover hood to see how it would perform with no prep or aluminum etching. I did sand with 80 grit sand paper. It has been on there for almost 30 years and I can’t even sand it off. I honestly believe there is nothing out there paint wise that is better. Fast forward to the 2000’s and I buy a can and the prep and not long after all the paint peeled off. What a disappointment. The old manifold paint would never come off either.
I am so happy to have seen this video before tackling my 2000 Tundra (The RUST King!!). I've been holding on to Por15 while I gathered remaining parts and supplies. I IMMEDIATELY went to Master Coat site and they are sold out die to the high demand from YOUR VIDEO!! That's awesome and a bummer at the same time. Keep up the good work and thank you!!
Almost 30 odd years ago when I was restoring cars Por15 was the stuff to use and other than wire brushing loose material off there was no surface prep needed and it worked great. From my understanding they were bought as a company from the original owner and now the quality is what you have today.
I've heard that same story as well. The story I got was POR15 was a 2 step coating (silver with a black topcoat) back in the day 30+ years ago. Ownership changed, guy running the place wanted a 1 step black paint. The new owner with no technical background, didn't realize the aluminum pigment in the silver coat is what made the paint work at stopping rust. Once this ownership change occurred they were spending 10K a month in Hemmings advertising. Now we have this crap paint with a cult following because ads have been every where for 30 years... In my opinion.
Agreed and that would make sense. Many good company buy outs lead to cost savings for the stock holders and quality suffers. Learned alot on this and will consider the winner Mastercoat for future frame paints.
@@57Dalvthe EPA is to blame Many chemicals have bin banned. bottom paint for boats they banned elemental tin. dupont emron paint was banned. California solvent based auto paints banned.......
A huge amount of work has been done. For which I am very grateful. I was recommended POR-15 and I already wanted to buy it. Thanks to your experts, my opinion has changed, as they say, it is better to see something once than to hear something once.
Paint surface preparations is the most important .. Acetone Clean and the specified roughness of the sub straight must be present in the moment of application and conditions that the paint was intended for to cure .. Paint is tested in a 100% controlled environment. Stable .. Humidity ... Stable Temp... I have been testing paints in the field my whole life.. What ever the pockets of the project can handle .. The Paint can out cost the item being coated fast becoming the most expensive phase of construction.. Keep fixing stuff .. read the manual of the products cost and application parameters to match the job the closest matching product always .. good job keep testing Yong man putting metal rims on your cars to do tests on them is a vary good way to test exterior products in a real time full exposure level. Try the same test with a high quality epoxy two part primer white ... then sand parts then spray all products at same viscosity build up the same dried thickness and retest .. in this case the spray paint can may be the lowest viscosity.. Find the Thinners .. in them all .. do the research.. Paint is a vary complex world of coating options ... I work in the marine ocean environment vessels all systems and shore line building construction and upkeep in the tropics.. Its all about the paint ..... Keeps us busy 24-7-365... good luck too you and have the best year.
@@caclark7600Ya I scraped the metal and used por15 metal prep then applied por15 to my frame last October and it already has rust everywhere. Along with massive amounts of peeling lol never again. Garbage. Looking like Rust-Oleum is next up!
When I used I used por15 on my truck frame, I whined it and spray it with a hvlp. Some of the frame was Don with rustoleum spray and brush, and some with the por 15 so it will be a live test. I think the por15 is only going to work in a very thin layer, but it's very expensive
I've honestly always used por15, just wire wheeled the parts(usually suspension items, drums, backing plates, trunk floors ect) cleaned them with brake clean and brushed it on. But seeing how well Mastercraft worked for the same price I think I'm going to have to change my product. Thanks for your hard work on this video I appreciate it.
@V8N8T. Could not have said it better. After using POR for I'm guessing about 40 years professionally, I would not have guessed there were better products. I too will have to change now that I am retired, but still do DIY projects.
Absolutely, this dude is a FN clown that has NO idea how to prep metal for each product. Next he us going to use a bend test to tell us base coat clear coat paints are inferior.
I had to comment on this video because I just got in a argument with my dad about what we were going to prep the rusted area's on his house boat around the engine compartment and he said he just saw a video that showed how por 15 is garbage. And boom this video pops up on my phone the next day 😅. So anyway it looked like the samples were clean metal with zero rust. The por 15 soap and metal ready are literally designed to prep rusted metal. I've been using por 15 over 20 years and I have tried using por 15 over rust that has clean metal around it and it literally looks like it fish eyes on the clean metal and bonds perfectly to the rust. It is the best system I've seen for rust. You can stop rust permanently with it if you do all the steps correctly. It will permanently bond the lid to the can that it comes in so that is why they sell very small cans because trying to reseal it might be the last time because you will need to destroy the can trying to open it again. I've put a sheet of plastic in between the lid, but if the plastic fails, it's not ever coming back off. Por 15 actually makes a normal paint that I've used on an engine that held up okay. I'm not sure what else I would use on an engine but it is still holding up over five years later. The exhaust manifold didn't last long though because it gets over 1300 degrees. I just cleaned the engine the best I could and finished sanded with maybe 600 grit and sprayed directly to the metal and whatever paint was left on the engine after sanding. I would definitely recommend spraying a sealer or epoxy before the finish coat though. I'm just saying that he should do a test on a good rusted piece of metal and then leave it outside for a couple years and then see which products hold up to the duct tape test. I would put good money on the por 15 beats all of those products. Ok, I just finished watching the video and he called me out perfectly 👌. I've used epoxy over rust on a boat trailer and it held up for years. That test panel that he used wasn't that rusted and I would like to see this test again on a heavier rust. I'm talking about the kind of rust that he's got on the panel at the end of the test. If I can clean the rust off then I would use epoxy every time but if you can't clean the rust because it is too deep then I'm using por 15. That is why por 15 is great because it bonds better the less you do to the rust. It is the quickest fix for heavy rust. You need to just make sure the scales are gone so there's no air pockets. The por 15 soap and metal ready are very powerful and very quick and easy to use.
Yes well said, his test was on clean metal and as everyone knows POR15 does not stick to clean metal, this is my first and last video from this guy I will be watching . @@lacquerhead6938
My go-to for quick and dirty rust protection is Rustoleum Hammered. This type of paint doesn't need primer, just wire brush the loose stuff. It's tough too.
I have used Rust-Oleum for decades and did so because of price, availability and ease of use, but I always wondered how it stacked up against other more expensive coatings. Now I know. Many thanks!
Rustoleum with some friend’s attempts doesn’t last well. But I’ve had great performance with rustoleum on prepped and primed steel including a 1999-ish rebuild and refinish on a heavily used boat trailer I still own. It’s still mostly clean almost 25 years later. At the end of the day this vid is a test but 27:24 it is NOT indicative of the performance potential of the products tested- it’s actually a test of his application methods. 29:56 this statement right there clearly demonstrates that the tester has no knowledge of how to achieve protection of a substrate with coatings. It was so silly when he suggested that one coating or another “stopped” rust from corroding under his scratch-test samples. The surface coating mil thickness may influence apparent rust-creep, but rust creep happens when the coating is compromised (his scratch test) and other than electrolytic agents (galvanizing for example) the base metal’s rust potential is going to be essentially the same apples to apples. 39:12 “corrosion fighters” is another example of how little chemistry he understands. 40:41-40:52 it’s amazing he can say that with a straight face - anyone that’s been skiing at Stowe has likely seen some of what i painted with rustoleum in the 1990’s. Probably been recoated at least once since but that isn’t the point. He’s just retail-vulnerable and uninformed.
Interesting. I have not used POR15 in years. Apparently there has been a change. My results in the 2000s was very positive. Stuck hard with a very hard finish. In fact, it was used to repair chipped finishes on black powdercoating. They must have cheaped out. A plug for Zero Rust. Pretty good stuff..
Metal prep isn't just phosphoric acid. It has extra stuff that does a light zinc phosphate conversion coat on the steel. Conversion coats passivate the metal. The conversion coat is corrosion resistant, especially with additional cathodic-like protection such as a zinc phosphate or chromated primer. If your steel parts are small enough, you can take an even bigger step and Parkerize the part. The metal prep applied at room temperature only provides a thin layer of protection. Parkerizing, done at 180F on your stove in a big pot, results in a much heavier and better conversion coat. It also results in pores that provide an excellent bonding surface for primer coats. You can also oil them with your favorite oil film product, and the oil will get into the pores. I've Parkerized many steel parts then shot them with zinc phosphate epoxy primer and then an enamel top coat. And those parts are bullet proof. Now a safety note. Hydrofluoric (HF) acid is not Muriatic acid. Muriatic is hydrochloric acid. HF acid is NASTY stuff. You won't even realize you're burned right away. It gets absorbed into your skin and then your body and bloodstream. It then attacks the calcium in your bones. By the time you are feeling bad, the damage is done. Immediate medical attention is required if you get HF on your skin. Some wheel cleaner and metal brightening products contain HF acid. It's a relatively low concentration, but you must wear gloves! I don't use these products, at least not right now, but I did buy the POR 15 metal prep for things I don't want to take the time to Parkerize. They were selling it cheaper than anyone else at the time of purchase. It's all basically the same stuff, so brand name isn't important here. Maybe they were selling it cheap to entice me to buy their paint :-) Finally, there's a difference between barrier protection, passivation, and cathodic protection. Most of these products only provide barrier protection. Think of barrier protection like a condom with all of the associated risks of tearing and leakage. Passivation -- metal prep and Parkerizing -- and cathodic protection prevent the corrosion from happening at a chemical level. If you really want to save your steel, use cathodic protection. But the zinc bars need replacing every so often. The happy spot is passivation with a good conversion coat like Parkerizing or metal prep followed by a corrosion-inhibiting primer such as zinc phosphate followed by good barrier protection. To be honest, though, if it's your car's frame that you're protecting, just Fluid Film it. It's cheaper and faster than paint. But Fluid Film is just barrier protection at the end of the day. Didn't you do a video recently where Fluid Film was holding up after several years of abuse?
I dont disagree with anything you said. I've done tons of videos on FF but there are situations where you can't just spray FF on the surface. A utility trailer for example can't be all oily and slippery. Paint is the only option. Hense, this video.
SOLID GOLD: "The happy spot is passivation with a good conversion coat like Parkerizing or metal prep followed by a corrosion-inhibiting primer such as zinc phosphate followed by good barrier protection."
Regarding your last point, I have come to that conclusion a while back. For vehicle underbody protection, paints just don't get the job done. Any thoughts on fluid film vs cosmoline vs some of the other products like that?
Why use Fluid Film when Surface Shield is soooo much better? He's proven that with previous videos many times. Have you seen any of the other videos where he's tested Surface Shield?
I've used POR 15 for many years with zero failures.. I've also used other rust encapsulators that also work quite well... surface prep and just making sure everything is as clean as possible will help tremendously .. great video
That last panel with the three coats, one Mastercoat, one raptor liner, and one master coat clear is crazy! You have the most definitive testing on corrosion-resistant coatings and paints on RUclips.
Dude, 74 yrs old here, mechanic, and engineer - - and have tried just about everything. You have done an outstanding, fantastic, job of comparing the products. Most I don't know but POR15 I do. You are exactly correct - it is crap. A '77 C10 all over rework in '96 and the frame has just kept pealing. Worse, is that the sheeting you mentioned makes rust much worse. This is a million dollar test series, literally! One thing - - primers. It would be fantastic to see a zinc chromate and/or strontium chromate primer tested with some of the other topcoats. They are hard to get now, but DoD scratch testing shows outstanding results, although the reports are not as complete as yours. The USArmy has some good specs for equipment that gets shipped (literally) and then sits a long time in various climates. WELL DONE!!
You did a very good job, if I may, could I add 4 decades of experience in the coatings business ... -Mill thickness is a very critical measurement to give a accurate representation of comparisons -The manufactures recommend proper mill thickness is critical to the end result ! -ANY primer product that contains CHROMATES (spell?) will have the best results by a VERY ENORMOUS difference...that’s why most companies and governments removed them from their product line up...also the “Environmental” issues. -All primers are porous and require a topcoat to seal the substrate! -And finally, like most things from paint to house foundations...GOOD PREP WILL GIVE YOU THE BEST RESULTS! -mechanical adhesion (sanding, grinding sandblasting) on any of these products will give you better results! It gives more surface contact. -duct tape for adhesion results😳 industry standard is 3m 233+ automotive masking tape... good for you, you did a tuffer test than industry standards! My hats off to you for putting the time into this tedious task! A tip for DIYers it’s usually the sharp radiuses that will give you product performance let down... your corners and edges is where it requires special attention as surface tension tends to peel products away from corners/ edges upon application weather spraying/ brushing/ dunking... inside AND outside radius’s & corners!
My only experience in coatings is a bike restoration, but everything you have said seems spot on. What about zinc coatings and zinc rich primers? Unless you literally stand there sanding or welding them with no personal protection they can hardly hurt you. And a lot of people and soils are zinc deficient anyway ;) And for the adhesion test it would be interesting to prepare a slightly larger part with varying surface finishes. Sandblasting, wire wheel, different grits of sandpaper. As for the environmental issues what makes really annoys me is fake "eco solutions". In my opinion one of the worst examples is safe plastic in products that should last! (and cheap long lasting in disposables or disposables in general) Philips LED desk lamp that started to deteriorate and turned into a sticky mess after two years. New 3D printed case, tiny heatsink and it's going strong for 5 years now. Whenever I see things like "saved x grams of CO2 using degradable plastic on a phone back cover" I only think how a tiny 1$ part will make something that costs hundreds if not thousands and used up a ton of rare materials break down and become e-waste right when warranty expires. P.S Before going fully ceramic almost all dental parts were Ni-Cr-Fe
I can't thank you enough for doing the work we can't (we'll only paint the frame of 1 or 2 vehicles). Years ago I sandblasted & refinished the frame of my F150 with POR15...it was supposed to be the best. My frame is pretty rusty now. Thorough and well thought out process....Thanks again.
When painting over rust, I found that the rust has to be as dry/moisture free as much as possible, rust is a moisture sponge, rust needs moisture to grow. If you coat moisture free rust with a good rust convertor and then a topcoat, you will have a long lasting coating. A warm, dry shop or a hot summer day with low humidity works for a frame coating, for small rust coating repairs I warm up the rusted area with a paint strip gun before applying the rust convertor.
I've had a lot of luck using a propane torch as part of paint prep on any sort of "porous" metal (rusty, cast iron, aluminum). Not trying to cook it, you just want to "sweat" moisture or oil out of the pores, so that the paint/primer has a solid surface to adhere to.
I've always prepped the metal and never had a single issue using POR15. It's been on my jeep rockers for years in the Northeast US salt, it's still hard as a rock. I did topcoat it as directed.
Having read so much about this paint, I thought I would try it. My test is challenging for any paint - rust-proofing the underside of a lawn mower deck. What I did: after removing any loose rust, I applied the recommended two stage preparation process then two coats of this paint and allowed several days to dry before running the mower. I ran the mower for one grass cutting session - about an hour of continuous use cutting two acres of grass, then inspected the painted surface. My conclusion: if the preparation steps are carefully followed the paint does seem to adhere well to rusty areas. However, it appeared to have a tendency to peel off as a sheet in areas that were not rusty. I know this paint is described as POR (paint over rust), but clearly in reality a useful paint needs to cover a range of surfaces, not just rusty ones. I’m afraid for this reason, combined with the ridiculously high price, especially if the preparation stages are used (and it seem to work much less well if they are not - I tried this also), I can’t give a more favourable assessment. One thing I do know though is that this stuff is very expensive - at now £55 for a US pint(!) of just the paint (not including the preparation). And for those in the UK, please note, this is not a British ("imperial") pint of 20 imperial fluid ounces (568 ml) but a significantly smaller American pint of only 16 US fluid ounces (473 ml).
Hey Repair Geek, thanks in part to your previous videos I used the Mastercoat silver primer on my snowblower last summer, after stripping most of the rust with a grinder and wire wheel/flap disc. I followed the directions, waited for a low humidity day, it was really think going on and coated well. I then used the rust oleum John Deere yellow for a top coat. I also tried adding a top coat of rust oleum bed liner to the circular snow chute area that had been totally rusted and gets the most abuse from the impeller scraping against the metal. I am pleased to report that so far this winter the paint is holding up well and looks great, however the bed liner did not adhere well enough to the chute and is now totally stripped off after just a few snow storms. I also started using fluid film on the entire machine, as well as coating the snow chute before each storm. The fluid film makes a big difference in the performance of the machine. I'm not worried about rust now since I used the master coat, just have to keep the chute from being ground down to bare metal. Big thanks to you for your videos, I really appreciate it. Glad to know spending the time and money on Mastercoat is worth every penny! Happy New Year.
My first impulse was "this is way too long"....but now, after watching, I realize why. You take a very deep dive into testing these products....even mixing a few together to see if it can enhance the performance. Wow. I'm edified, and impressed. And, now subscribed!
you could painta frame with crayons down there and it would last , Anyone from AZ has no skin in this game and should be disallowed from even watching these videos LOL JK
I was really rooting for rustoleim. I swathed everything on my 67 olds with zinc oxide primer followed by rustoleim black. 30 yrs ago. Still Perfect, economical coating. However, driven only on sunny dry days.
Good to know, I just did videos of coating the bottom and engine bay of my Camaro restoration project with Mastercoat & AG111 because of the video you did with your mustang. Thank you for the hard work! I’ll add this video to my description so people have more information to make a decision with!
Well done, none of us want to paint twice because we believed the product info. Very clear testing and frank opinions. Quote "Farankly it's crap" love it. Thank you for investing time and money in this and hope it pays off for you.
Absolutely brilliant and professional testing! As the owner of a 43 year old jeep that lives outside near the ocean in Fl., this info is incredibly valuable. Por15 constantly dissapointed me no matter how I prepped, sooner or later would just flake off in sheets leaving bare metal which would rust heavily right away. I went to rustoleum which initially I was very happy with until I noticed corrosion "bleed thru" after only a year or so requiring constant re-coating. Sooo, I got the exact same results as your test on rustoleum and por15 and will be using raptor/ag111 from now on. THANK YOU!
Great detailed testing. On hobby sites, people constantly swear by POR 15 and other "encapsulators". But, as you imply, "friends don't let friends use POR 15". I focus on de-rusting. Small parts I submerse in EvapORust for a week, especially with a jar of fasteners. After cleaning thoroughly - shake parts together in water many times until the water comes out clear, I soak in phosphoric acid (Buy as concrete etch at Home Depot) which converts any remaining rust in pits to hard black (iron phosphate?). Large parts I wrap in rags soaked in the above, covered with plastic. With very rusty parts like exhaust manifolds, the rags get bonded to the surface after phosphoric acid by black stuff which must be wire-brushed off. Small fasteners I then paint with rattle-can lacquer or sometimes soak in thick gear oil which gets drawn into surface pits.
I just got done watching this video and wanted to add my experience with a few of these. POR15 was always marketed as a rust cover-up, sort of a last ditch effort to save a rusty frame or chassis. Back in the late 80's I had a very rusty 1972 F150, the frame was rusted to the point where if something wasn't done it would surely fail or rust through. It was a scaly mess. SInce I had to replace some body mounts, and the fuel tank, I removed the bed and cab. The frame was a disaster, rusted far worse than I thought and my goal went from fixing it to getting a few more years out of it. A buddy had bought a bunch of POR15 but not used it the year before and gave it to me to use on the frame. I pressure washed the frame, knocked off as much loose rust as I could with an 8" wire wheel on a grinder, then sprayed the whole frame down with their prep, followed the directions, then finally gave it two heavy coats of the POR15 black. It sat a week before I put it back together. I drove that truck for two more years, traded it to a buddy who drove it for 9 more before falling asleep one night and totaling it. 11 years after coating the frame, no new rust came through, and there was no peeling or chipping, other than where the rusty frame collapsed and bent when it came to rest at the base of a rather large oak tree I feel it did what it was advertised to do, but again, it was free to me. Knowing now what I didn't know then, there are better fixes for rust, several companies make tannin based 'rust converter' coatings which convert the rust from iron oxide to iron phosphate. Basically these are just a solution of phosphoric acid. This creates a black protective barrier from the elements and stops further rust. Paint isn't even needed once this is achieved. Following this up with any paint with good adhesion will give the finished result a much better visual appeal. Any one of the spray in bed liner coatings would work well for this since the texture hides the pitting and rough surfaces. None however 'fix' any strength loss due to severe corrosion and I would never substitute this for a fix for minor surface rust that could be removed with more conventional methods. Rustoleum has been notoriously bad for UV resistance, a good example is a trailer which I painted a year ago with gloss black, and now, 13 months later its turned nearly completely to a flat black finish with bits of paint loss here and there. Another painted with some old, left over MAB alkyd enamel that was over 20 years old in the can, has lasted now for four years with no fading. Too bad its no longer made. With any coating, prep is everything and I find a final wipe with either a final wash product or rubbing alcohol works best to ensure a clean surface. This means both on the bare surface, and the primer itself once its dried, before the finish coat. I replaced the bed on my 02 F250 four years ago, it had rusted away from the inside out. The frame was ugly but mostly just rust stained from the metal that disintegrated above it. I cleaned the frame down to bare metal in most places, primed it with etching primer, then coated it with a two heavy coats of Rustoleum spray in bed liner. I had to remove the bed to do a fuel pump last fall, the bed liner was well adhered to the frame and anything else it touched, so much so that it was nearly impossible to remove from several bolts and screws without a grinder and wire brush. Chipping at it with a screwdriver wasn't working. One older coating that I had good luck with in the past was a product called Corroless, a red primer colored coating with a phosphoric acid content to convert the rust it was sued to paint over. It was sold both on the industrial market and even Eastwood had it in small cans. I believe it was originally engineered for use on offshore oil rigs and its the toughest stuff I ever found. Its still made but I've not found a local source for it where I'm at these days. I used that on a painted boat trailer that had seen saltwater use. I patched the rusted out sections and coated the frame with it, then followed it up with two coats of tractor paint from Central tractor back in 1997. It looks no different now then it did the day after I painted it 28 years ago.
This comment needs more recognition, although maybe advertised as being able to be used on fresh smooth metal or sandblasted metal, I feel the test repair geek did didn’t portray where por15 actually shines. In scaly last ditch effort metal and frames por 15 has saved many frames for me. It never has stuck good to freshly prepped or sandblasted metal or even slightly rusted metal. But real aggressive scaly rust it’s done great and never have any issues with it flaking
That said I generally don’t like por 15 and hate working with frames in that condition so overall the product is pretty pointless but over scaly I have had success
I've always sort of thought that all of the rust converter type products seem to adhere best to 'converted rust'. Even Corroless doesn't adhere well to bare, clean steel, but on anything with a rust coating its fine. In reality, there's no reason to use a 'Rust converter' type coating over bare steel. The trick is not to treat those coatings as paint but as a rust encapsulator to be painted over POR 15 just happens to do both. @@lukegoodwin2160
I did the nottom of a mower deck that had been left sitting over water snd it was drrply rusted underneath. Rural king was selling a product called AgriGuard that is made for high corrosion places like fertilizer plants and battery trays I had to chip thick scale away but if the rust wS well adhered it stayed on. AgriGuard stayed on and was extremely easy to get coverage. If you put a second coat on, it has to be done within right hours or so. Mowing in juicy pasture dies not affect the stuff and battery acid beads right up . Black color is not for UV applications, but they make a grey version that is resistant for more money.I run Wheel Horse tractors abd decks made from high quality cold rolled steel. Great product
This test series was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Excellent approach to all points of failure and using different methods to test was most impressive. I have a 1966 El Camino that I have restored and I would have loved to have watched this before I started on the body work. I used POR 15 and Eastwood products but would have went a different route had I seen this video. My car does not see rain and is never exposed to salt but I still would have taken a different tack.
Thanks a million. I thought the world of por 15 and found out after having brake fluid leak on to my frame(painted in por 15) it peeled right off like your demonstration. I was very disappointed after so much time I spent preparing and painting my frame with this stuff. Appreciate what you did for us.
I've known about the Matstercoat products for awhile. I'm very happy I coated the bottom of my car with the mastercoat silver and their AG111 topcoat. (mad at myself I didn't raptor coat it after that for looks mainly) Then in my wheel wells, I used the mastercoat silver again with the ag111 but topped it with the raptor liner 2k but in a spray can. Since my car won't be seeing any salt or rain this will last for generations.
Loved the video and the scientific method being applied here. Tremendous amount of useful comparison data. I was hoping to see more testing of products on top of existing rust but the one test panel you did for that was still very helpful. About 20 years ago I put the Rustoleum over top of some rust floor panels and my results mimic yours - rust did not take long to come back through or spread. POR15 has great marketing and probably works well enough for the average time someone hangs onto a car, but I am looking for a long lasting finish that my kids can appreciate on the car years after I am dead and gone. Thank you for taking a tremendous amount of time to explore this. I recently visited Ohio and the amount of salt on the roads and all over my rental car made me thankful my car isn't subjected to that regularly
I repainted a frame on a pickup , cab/bed-off restoration, and I had originally wanted to use POR15 but I never got around to ordering it and since I couldn't purchase it local to me, I bought something I could get local... That turned out to be Rustoleum in the silver can (Professional High Performance Protective Enamel) Oil-Based paint in 1-gallon cans. 243995 Semi-Gloss Black. 8 Years later and the frame still looks amazing... I have no regrets especially considering the affordable price and local availability. I used no primer or base coat. I cleaned the frame with degreaser, wire brushes and a power washer and applied the paint directly to the bare metal frame.
@@dostuffchannel I'm in South Texas... Basically, the perfect environment for a rust-free vehicle so I can't say how it would hold up in a harsh environment. With that said, the paint still looks great and there are no signs of peeling or any issues to speak of. I make the occasional trip to the TX coast for some beach fun, and I get it very muddy on occasion, and the paint has held up well to a lot of power washing.
Nice work. As stated by a few others, I too, used to work in R&D for a 1st/2nd tier automotive supplier. We performed the same tests you did and more. The main difference is we would test multiple samples/lots of the same product, not just one. This gives a view of the consistency and reliability of the product. I know its hard for a youtuber to do the same as it is cost prohibitive. However, your tests were impressive nevertheless. After looking at the MasterCoat SDS, it appears its not much more than a modified two part polyurethane mixture (isocyanate catalyst). Standard industry stuff with adhesion and UV blocking mods, they've just adopted it for rust encapsulation/coating instead of paint for a car or concrete floor.
Rust Bullet is the best. Was disappointed to see it not in this test. I used it for 20 years and great results. Still have a car with my 1st ever use, 1 coat, sat outside and rust never broke through. It’s been over 20 years and I can show the proof.
Great video and matches my experience. I bought a 1969 GTO to restore in 2004 and sand blasted the frame and painted it with por15. After 5-6 years por15 was peeling off in sheets as described here. I took the body back off the frame and wire wheeled the por15 off and painted the frame with eastwood primer and chassis paint. Been that was for 10 years now and still looks great. Por15 will never touch my garage again, and i advise others to not use it.
Very informative video, thank you so much for all of your hard work and time. I’m sure this was not an easy video to make, considering all of the information that you provided, not to mention how much time out of your life, it took to conduct all of these experiments.
Great comparison video. I used KBS paint brushed directly on a freshly blasted Silverado truck frame a couple of years ago. There is no peeling that coating off, and it does not scratch as easy as regular paint. Pricey, but works great. For some projects I also use rustoleum with a hardener added. Is a very economical and functional coating that is easier to cleanup than epoxy paint coatings.
Really great and thorough reviews my dude. Especially loved the parts where you stacked different products on top of one another for maximum effect. That's some next level stuff right there.
I really appreciate the scientific method and your application of it is quite approchable to non-scientists. The mastercoat and raptor results were very pleasant surprises. An extra lesson for me - here in super-dry Arizona, using Rustoleum on clean metal is probably better than good-enough, but for any harsher climate (wetter, saltier), there are several better choices. Thanks for the comprehensive analysis!
I'm an Arizonian who has to paint two vehicles on a budget and you are 100% correct. Rustoleum will probably be fine. But after seeing these tests, I am now considering a topcoat for UV protection. That's our big weather issue and it appears that Rustoleum isn't so great there. At the moment, I've lost two small decks to the Arizona sun in less than seven years (with annual maintenance) and we're rebuilding with concrete. UV destruction is no joke.
Amen - hence why you see everyone that has a utility trailer putting plywood covers over the tires when at rest, among other things :)@@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284
Do some more research and you'll find that the UNPAID testers out there have complete and opposite results. This test was a complete hack job with forced failures and shoddy prep.
I'm in Texas and we use POR15 topcoat on tons of our equipment. When prepped properly, it will outperform everything out there. Do some more research and don't believe this dude.@@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284
Thanks for taking the time to do this research - it’s tremendously helpful. Anyone who’s used any of these products, done a thorough job of the prep work and dealt with avoiding breathing the debilitating VOCs knows that it’s a job you don’t want to have to re-do. One item I’d be interested in learning more about is material buildup thickness and how best to mitigate unwanted build-up in bolt holes, etc. that then require some filing….which seems to defeat the protection around those penetration points. I used foam plugs and other approaches on an old riding mower deck recently but was surprised to learn how tight the clearance tolerances were on those holes and mounting points when I went to reassemble. Removing the protective coating in those areas was unwelcome and counterproductive work. Thanks again for all the work on this topic!
Good to know, next spring I was planning on buying another set of POR15 and apply it to my car. But Mastercoat seems like a great alternative, I will give it a shot, thank you so much!
I did a very large project about 15 years ago that involved the chemical engineers at POR 15. Turns out that they have cheapened the chemical formulation of the paint. So if you get commenters that say "I did a project years ago and it still looks great", they might be right, the paint from years ago is different than the paint you can get now. I can tell you that the project still looks great, although the red has mellowed into more of a brown, but the egdes of the panels have not rusted, and there is no bubbling of the paint.
I've been restoring old rusty classic cars for 25 years and I've been using POR15 the whole time. I love it, it does what it's supposed to do. I've never had any problem with it other than getting it off my hands after it dries. I love this stuff. I have also used it to repair old gas tanks. Works great.
Same. Haven’t used it on old gas tanks,but maybe in the future. I like replacing the tanks when possible. The used tanks, if still good or salvage able sell quick at swap meets. Unfortunately a lot of what I do are 67 - 72 C10, K10, K20 pickups and move the tank out of the cab. Those tanks are scrap metal! 😂😂. I haven’t had issues even using the K20 all winter each year & I live in a rust belt. I take the box, cab & fenders off so I have 100% access to the frame. Most of the time I want near new quality so the motor, transmission, differential, transfer case and most of the suspension gets removed. They all get the brakes fully replaced and lots of them get 4 wheel discs. The frames often get soda blasted so they are bare metal and free of rust. It’s worth it, if the truck can be worth it when done.
a good and informative test and Im suprised at how poorly POR15 performed. That said, in the UK, POR15 is marketed as a motorcycle fuel tank sealer. I used it on a tank that was heavily corroded internally and it been fine for the last 6 years, it also seals small leaks
I've used POR-15 tank sealer, bed liner and undercoating with excellent results. I did the entire inside of my Jeep CJ with their bedliner. This was at least 20years ago, they may have changed.
Starting to restore the engine bay of my 68 Mustang. Glad I came across this video as i was suggested POR15 from my local paint shop. Unfortunately I've already spent the money on all the degreasers, prep, and rust preventative. Might switch gears to the other products and use POR15 on some smaller projects or parts that are easier to touch up and get to. Appreciate the time and commitment you took for this video. Could save people lots of time and headache on future projects. People say prep work is everything when it comes to painting, but its useless if the product itself can't hold up either.
Firsr off, I give you credit for taking the time and spending the money to do all these tests. I have noticed that you seem a bit slanted against POR15, and thats fine. I have used POR15 for many years, and had great luck with it. Im sure thwere are other products that work as well. Lets face it, no matter how much of what ever you can come up with and apply to metal, sooner or later if exposed to salt it will rust. It seems that the natural occurrence of rust seems to always have more patience than we do and will always win in the end. I grew up in the mid west, and saw many cars and trucks get eaten by salt. I found the one and only true way to prevent this, is I moved to Arizona and problem solved. Thanks for the video, well done.
I sandblasted the frame of my crew cab and coated with POR15, but did not top coat, as directed, as it was not available to me at the time. The frame was stored outside my buddies shop for a month and a half due to other commitments. When I got back to it, it went from BLACK to GRAY. I was not happy about that. I sandblasted the frame again, and found the coating was coming off in sheets. NOT impressed. People tried telling me that I HAD to have rust to make it work its best, which made NO sense to me whatsoever. I have gone to epoxy primer and paint (ENDURA) with satisfying results in colour retention, gloss and durability. Glad to see some REAL testing in a controlled manner. Thank you!
Loved the video. As a guy who has used POR15 for over 20 years, I was intrigued by MasterCoat, but as a Canadian looking at their website I discovered “ WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY AND DO NOT HAVE DISTRIBUTORS OUTSIDE OF THE USA AT THIS TIME.” Bummer.
I used POR15 about 7 years ago on my. Truck frame and it held up pretty well. None of it came off. I scrubbed the frame with scotch bright pads and degreaser, then acid cleaned, then applied POR15. I've seen it fail on a buddy's truck though. I think it's a combination of prep, and ambient temperature when applied, along with the environment the vehicle is used or stored in. I used Eastwood this year to completely restore my frame and top coated it with enamel. Seems like no matter what product you use some people have good results and some people don't.
This is by far the most valuable video I have watched while working on my project car. I am very close to painting the bare frame of my 57 Chevy and everyone around me beats the POR 15 drum. You are a life saver.
i put por- 15 on a 08 chevy silverado, that had just started rusting on wheel wells, and a few years later wheel wells rusted out...And i put several coats on.
I have had por results with por 15. Sand blasted and prepped a set of truck axles, had peeling and faded paint after one year, no top coat. In the instructions it states topcoat was optional. My mistake.
I guess another possibility with the adhesion testing is that the duct tape bonded better to the POR-15 than it did other products. That might explain why it didn't peel off with the POR-15 that was top coated. Because, maybe, the duct tape didn't bond as strongly to the top coat.
Should try chassis saver. Similar to por15 and kbs. I believe it is superior to both when applied with minimal prep. I like the kbs products but the required prep is very time consuming.
I used a different Rustolium in-between my floor pans and seat perchs. It was a rust conversion formula. No complaints. Obviously this is a protected area. The only moisture is from condensation. 8 years later it looks brand new.
Ive used coal tar epoxy for barges and dredges used in salt water and brackish water from houma,LA to brownsville, TX. Its impressive for what is asked of it.
This was a great video. Really great effort. I am curious if at some point you get a chance to do a similar aval in your salt setup on powder coated metal as a comparison. I know it;t not a practical comparison for auto body purposes but on frame and chassis items it certainly could be. Thanks for your efforts on the matter of rust prevention and protection.
Yea ditto. Did my YJ frame 6 years ago with metal prep, por 15 then fluid film. Only thing I do is hit it with another can of fluid film before each winter. Live in Canada and frame is still the same condition as it was 6 years ago.
I've been telling my customers for years that POR-15 was the biggest scam in the restoration industry. I always had a suspicion that it was just Rustoleum in a re-labled package.....but apparently it's not even as good as Rustoleum. 😂
Where people have problems is not removing all corrosion. It's impossible to halt corrosion by painting over it. When I was an aircraft structural maintainer in the Air Force we spent months of our school just learning about corrosion and all paint does is keep water (the electrolyte) from contacting the metal. You have to remove all corrosion as well as a few thousandths more metal as well or it will continue corroding. If you do that any good primer and paint will keep it from corroding. The rust reforming ingredients in things like Rustolium and POR15 are better than nothing but won't help you if you paint over rust. If you make a metal patch it has to be the same metal as well to avoid galvanic corrosion.
FYI - POR-15 is a moisture cure product, nothing like Rustoleum chemically. So not only does it not work any better, it also starts to hardens in the can once you open it in a humid environment!
Links to the products featured in this video:
Mastercoat: nomorerust.com/store/
Raptor Liner: amzn.to/41XpWRH
POR15: amzn.to/41Ihi9p
POR15 Topcoat: amzn.to/3RZu5kA
KBS: amzn.to/47l5IST
Eastwood Rust Encapsualtor Platinum: amzn.to/47eFRM9
Miracle Paint: www.hirschauto.com/Paint/departments/1/
Rustoleum: amzn.to/4aCDaXM
Salt Cabinet Parts:
Tote: amzn.to/3NT5lYM
Mist Maker: amzn.to/3S9QVpN
Aquarium Heater: amzn.to/3vv03wo
My Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/shop/repairgeek
Help support the channel, buy using my Amazon links
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases and your cost is exactly the same.
The Miracle Paint link is broken. It's HTML source is the literal of what you can see.
Salt cabinet parts?
Messaged nomorerust/mastercoat. Too bad they don't ship or have distributers in Canada. Will have to stick to POR. :(
Have you ever tried ZRC Cold Galvanizing Compound?
@@dropdestroy Parts added. "Miracle" paint link fixed.
Each time you put out a Video concerning metal protection, I get way more excited than a person should. I’m not sure anyone else is as committed as you are on doing these long term tests. I very much appreciate the amount of Time, Money, Energy and Thought you put into these tests. Great thorough job!!
Project Farm on RUclips.
❤🛢🕰⚡️🔥🪐🌡🌞🌙🌨🌧⛱️❄️🏗🧨🔎🎥💰⚖️🧯🩺🔬🗜🧲🪛🔨🪚🔧⚗️🧪🧫☢️☣️⚠️🤔🔋🪫🔌,in other words, he is an unbiased,unpaid, dedicated tech-geek. Finding out the truth in brands. Always saving us time and money. 💰 🤑
Because in the year 2023, we still aren't allowed to have a cheap alternative to steel. It must be planned obsolescence that everything is still being made from rusty steel that contains no nickel or chromium in it. Cars are still made from rusty plain steel that has a finite life span? Imagine if the trucks from the 1960's had been made with proper stainless steel cabs, with stainless steel floor pans that didn't dissolve in a few years. We wouldn't have had to crush millions of vehicles, they could be kept on the road with a new modern drive-train.
@@Ritalie Stainless steel is not a cost-effective car material. It also suffers from being poorly magnetic or non-magnetic due to passivation. It also isn't a panacea, the USPS new STD-4C cluster mailboxes (front-loading, wide boxes) still have corrosion issues due to environmental conditions. You are committing to making your car heavy, or making such a thin skin it'd be irreparable if farted on hard enough. It sounds cool, but John DeLorean could have explained why stainless steel cars are problematic better than me.
@@Ritalie Also, while I'm revisiting this, there are other options. The biggest problem is that at the heart of it all, you have to have a frame that protects the people inside from severe blunt-force trauma. Aluminum body panels and some truck beds are/were made of aluminum, but it is less reparable, more expensive per pound, and lacks the inherent strength to survive a serious accident. A stainless steel frame would potentially work, but the cost of, say, one of the 30x series of nonmagetic, fully passivated stainless steels would be about 2-3x the price. Then, all your welds have to be done with TIG which means certified welders or industrial robots, and TIG welding is a slower, more precise process.
Volkswagen put a thick layer of tar painted the body color in all its 1st generation watercooled cars (I owned multiple Mk1 Rabbits) and I never saw a single one where said tar was intact with significant rust in the body, although the A pillar and hatch were rust magnets due to the design. We've already accepted owning insanely heavy vehicles (my regular cab pickup with a camper toolbox is close to its max gross of 5400 lbs). What's a little painted tar between friends?
I’m glad you said it and not me because I didn’t want to sound like a weirdo. But thank you..
As someone who has fought rust, living in Connecticut for far too long. I am grateful that you put this video together. Ive experimented and wasted a lot of hard work. This is gonna save me so much money in the long run.
As a CT born (Now live in RI) fella, Rustoleum Rust Reformer is the best imo as it’s cheap, sprays on well (as long as your nozzle is clean), dries very, very fast, prevents rust well, and does not care about prep past removing heavy scale so it’s just light, tight rust. Do a few coats and don’t even need to top coat.
You and Project Farm are my go-to’s for thorough product testing. Thank you for what you do.
This is the first time I have ever been to this channel, and the fact that anyone mentions this being comparable to Project Farm is great news. Havent watched the video yet but I bet I will sub at the end.
Repair Geek and Project Farm collab would be 👌🏽
Just discovered your channel this evening… thanks for the thorough testing. This will help with my Model T restoration.
@@jaredspink6250let Todd know! I'd do it in a second.
Project Farm is biased af. Just look at his LTT screwdriver videos
Interesting video. I have tried all those products. Been restoring cars for 46 years and find overall Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer" top-coated with Rustoleum paint, which is the longest lasting and is the cheapest product out there to use, for what I use it for. I used Por15 once and never again, as the car I used it on, I had to re-restore all the components the Por15 was used on within five years. Por15 is the perfect name as the product is very poor and 15 times the cost of other products.
Same. Been using Rustoleum rusty metal primer and top coat since late 70's.
Did he use harder in his rustoleum? I think he did it by the instructions and that isn't with adding hardner so it might do much better than it appears in his test with the 4:1:1 mix I have grown to love so much.
That I don't know, but I have found even without hardener it still works better than anything else. @@Papas220Garage
Por 15 sucks, used it on frame and other parts, started peeling with time being left outside
Used POR15 heavily in the early 2000’s. Prepped exactly like they wanted. Used their metal prep and everything. Removed all scale and dirt. Only surface rust. In less than a year, it was peeling off in sheets. Rust had traveled under the coating, kind of like powder coating once it’s scratched. Now I clean and prep down to only surface rust, spray with Duplicolor Rust Fix rust converter and top with either Eastwood Rust Encapsulator or Zero Rust. Sometimes I will top coat that with Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black. If I can sandblast down to bare metal, I will prime with Duplicolor self etching primer and paint with Seymour MRO high solids enamel. Sandblasted engine parts get Duplicolor high temp engine primer and engine enamel. Have been pleased with their performance. All of them.
What about a frame that have only minimal rust, just a few chips here and there and plenty of paint, is a Chevy Colorado 2006 is not a lot of rust I just want to stop the few spots and have the frame painted
same thing with POR 15 in my experience and funny enuf the same time frame too
If you get this, I want to paint a diesel boat engine. It's not in terrible rusty condition and I'll be doing in place (brush not spray). What would you recommend?
I performed chemical comparability and environmental testing for the auto industy for years, and i am very impressed with your methodology and analysis. You are worlds ahead in actual test methods and data collections than almost all the big youtube "test" channels.
There are some parts of your test methods you could improve, but you definitely got the core data and you did it without an industry testing sized budget. I am very impressed and just shot you a sub. Cant wait to scroll through your back catalog snd see what you have coming out next.
I've been preaching this for well over 20 years. Master Series is a great material and I use in in Restorations and have for a long long time.
They use it on bridges as well! Thats a job where quality material is needed, since theres a ton of time involved, which means costs a are high, and need the best product for durability. I used it on restorations and had zero issues. Goes a long way as welL!
DUDE!!!! Great video! Being a DIY'er, the thing that sucks the most is spending time, money, and stress in a project and watching it fail. You have giving us a view into a controlled failure so us DIY'ers can make intelligent informed decisions as to what products actually hold up in certain situations! Thank you as a fellow Northeast Ohioian! Now I know what I'm going to use on my 72 Monte!
I have used POR15 and I agree with the test results for POR15.
I found that POR15 worked better as a rubber/fabric cement than a paint.
The first time I washed the dirt from the under side of the car, It came off in notebook size sheets.
I tried every kind of prep to get it to stay and it failed every time.
Sticks to your skin real good though.
😂
I use moisture cure PU mastic as sold for car panel joint sealing as a glue. It’s amazing stuff. It even repairs kids shoes with soles coming off. However it will eventually peel from metals do d would be used over a really good primer. Personally I believe POR-15 is a very similar product. I would consider it as a fuel tank liner but little else.
You know the only way to STOP rust is to seal it off completely. You know. With like a coating of some sort that keep air out.
@@clarkgriswald1768penetrol?
I agree. POR15 was supposed to do that and that is why I tried it.
Used it in many different ways with the same results. followed all recommendations. very good glue though and it works better than epoxy on the garage floor, some of that stuff will be there until the end of time..@@clarkgriswald1768
I appreciate your service and your straight up blunt comments on bad products. Thank you
The first time I used Por15 was 2008 and I was amazed at the results. Fast forward to 2023 and I found myself buying and using it again. I noticed the consistency and finish have changed. The changed has curbed my enthusiasm for the product
I agree, somethings changed. I used it previous and it went on well, flowed out to a great finish and stuck !
Recently used it again and it wasn't the same, prep was same but it just didn't seem to adhere well, certainly not like previous
It used to be really great stuff but something is definitely off, BTW por stands for "paint over rust" it's designed to be used on rusted metal, obviously you want to prep it but it's not supposed to be used over brand new, perfect metal.
You must live in CA and only have access to the no cancer formulation.
I was told that the guy that invented it sold it and the new owners cheaped out on ingredients and essentially watered it down. He then started KBS and improved the old formula. Might be BS but that’s what a supply store told me
I had similar results. Back in the ‘90’s I painted an engine block with the standard black POR15. About 4 years later I took the engine to a machine shop for a rebuild. The machinist called me and said he had put in the acid tank and none of the paint will come of. He said it doesn’t even dull it. He said he could sand blast it off, but I told him, just leave it on. In another example I spilled some on my garage floor and nothing would remove it. I also painted the inside of an old Land Rover hood to see how it would perform with no prep or aluminum etching. I did sand with 80 grit sand paper. It has been on there for almost 30 years and I can’t even sand it off. I honestly believe there is nothing out there paint wise that is better. Fast forward to the 2000’s and I buy a can and the prep and not long after all the paint peeled off. What a disappointment. The old manifold paint would never come off either.
I am so happy to have seen this video before tackling my 2000 Tundra (The RUST King!!). I've been holding on to Por15 while I gathered remaining parts and supplies. I IMMEDIATELY went to Master Coat site and they are sold out die to the high demand from YOUR VIDEO!! That's awesome and a bummer at the same time. Keep up the good work and thank you!!
Almost 30 odd years ago when I was restoring cars Por15 was the stuff to use and other than wire brushing loose material off there was no surface prep needed and it worked great. From my understanding they were bought as a company from the original owner and now the quality is what you have today.
I've heard that same story as well. The story I got was POR15 was a 2 step coating (silver with a black topcoat) back in the day 30+ years ago. Ownership changed, guy running the place wanted a 1 step black paint. The new owner with no technical background, didn't realize the aluminum pigment in the silver coat is what made the paint work at stopping rust. Once this ownership change occurred they were spending 10K a month in Hemmings advertising. Now we have this crap paint with a cult following because ads have been every where for 30 years... In my opinion.
Would love to see a "historic" POR15 can tested VS modern in the salt fog tank!@@RepairGeek
Agreed and that would make sense. Many good company buy outs lead to cost savings for the stock holders and quality suffers. Learned alot on this and will consider the winner Mastercoat for future frame paints.
@kenziebean1798 just send me the can and give me 6 months for testing 😁.
@@57Dalvthe EPA is to blame
Many chemicals have bin banned.
bottom paint for boats they banned elemental tin.
dupont emron paint was banned.
California solvent based auto paints banned.......
A huge amount of work has been done. For which I am very grateful. I was recommended POR-15 and I already wanted to buy it. Thanks to your experts, my opinion has changed, as they say, it is better to see something once than to hear something once.
Paint surface preparations is the most important .. Acetone Clean and the specified roughness of the sub straight must be present in the moment of application and conditions that the paint was intended for to cure .. Paint is tested in a 100% controlled environment. Stable .. Humidity ... Stable Temp... I have been testing paints in the field my whole life.. What ever the pockets of the project can handle .. The Paint can out cost the item being coated fast becoming the most expensive phase of construction.. Keep fixing stuff .. read the manual of the products cost and application parameters to match the job the closest matching product always .. good job keep testing Yong man putting metal rims on your cars to do tests on them is a vary good way to test exterior products in a real time full exposure level. Try the same test with a high quality epoxy two part primer white ... then sand parts then spray all products at same viscosity build up the same dried thickness and retest .. in this case the spray paint can may be the lowest viscosity.. Find the Thinners .. in them all .. do the research.. Paint is a vary complex world of coating options ... I work in the marine ocean environment vessels all systems and shore line building construction and upkeep in the tropics.. Its all about the paint ..... Keeps us busy 24-7-365... good luck too you and have the best year.
I used por 15 on my car trailer and did zero prep, just brushed it on the whole rusty frame, still looks good after 15 years outside.
You must sell that crap ,
@@caclark7600Ya I scraped the metal and used por15 metal prep then applied por15 to my frame last October and it already has rust everywhere. Along with massive amounts of peeling lol never again. Garbage. Looking like Rust-Oleum is next up!
@@dylant3717 Projeck farms did a comparison and apparently rust o leum was the best
@@matton36I saw it and rustoleum came in second but for the price it’s better
When I used I used por15 on my truck frame, I whined it and spray it with a hvlp. Some of the frame was Don with rustoleum spray and brush, and some with the por 15 so it will be a live test. I think the por15 is only going to work in a very thin layer, but it's very expensive
I've honestly always used por15, just wire wheeled the parts(usually suspension items, drums, backing plates, trunk floors ect) cleaned them with brake clean and brushed it on. But seeing how well Mastercraft worked for the same price I think I'm going to have to change my product. Thanks for your hard work on this video I appreciate it.
@V8N8T. Could not have said it better. After using POR for I'm guessing about 40 years professionally, I would not have guessed there were better products. I too will have to change now that I am retired, but still do DIY projects.
A wire wheel will leave the surface to smooth for paint adhesion you need to sand it after.
Absolutely, this dude is a FN clown that has NO idea how to prep metal for each product. Next he us going to use a bend test to tell us base coat clear coat paints are inferior.
I had to comment on this video because I just got in a argument with my dad about what we were going to prep the rusted area's on his house boat around the engine compartment and he said he just saw a video that showed how por 15 is garbage. And boom this video pops up on my phone the next day 😅. So anyway it looked like the samples were clean metal with zero rust. The por 15 soap and metal ready are literally designed to prep rusted metal. I've been using por 15 over 20 years and I have tried using por 15 over rust that has clean metal around it and it literally looks like it fish eyes on the clean metal and bonds perfectly to the rust. It is the best system I've seen for rust. You can stop rust permanently with it if you do all the steps correctly.
It will permanently bond the lid to the can that it comes in so that is why they sell very small cans because trying to reseal it might be the last time because you will need to destroy the can trying to open it again. I've put a sheet of plastic in between the lid, but if the plastic fails, it's not ever coming back off.
Por 15 actually makes a normal paint that I've used on an engine that held up okay. I'm not sure what else I would use on an engine but it is still holding up over five years later. The exhaust manifold didn't last long though because it gets over 1300 degrees. I just cleaned the engine the best I could and finished sanded with maybe 600 grit and sprayed directly to the metal and whatever paint was left on the engine after sanding. I would definitely recommend spraying a sealer or epoxy before the finish coat though.
I'm just saying that he should do a test on a good rusted piece of metal and then leave it outside for a couple years and then see which products hold up to the duct tape test. I would put good money on the por 15 beats all of those products.
Ok, I just finished watching the video and he called me out perfectly 👌. I've used epoxy over rust on a boat trailer and it held up for years.
That test panel that he used wasn't that rusted and I would like to see this test again on a heavier rust. I'm talking about the kind of rust that he's got on the panel at the end of the test. If I can clean the rust off then I would use epoxy every time but if you can't clean the rust because it is too deep then I'm using por 15. That is why por 15 is great because it bonds better the less you do to the rust. It is the quickest fix for heavy rust. You need to just make sure the scales are gone so there's no air pockets. The por 15 soap and metal ready are very powerful and very quick and easy to use.
Yes well said, his test was on clean metal and as everyone knows POR15 does not stick to clean metal, this is my first and last video from this guy I will be watching . @@lacquerhead6938
My go-to for quick and dirty rust protection is Rustoleum Hammered. This type of paint doesn't need primer, just wire brush the loose stuff. It's tough too.
I have used Rust-Oleum for decades and did so because of price, availability and ease of use, but I always wondered how it stacked up against other more expensive coatings. Now I know. Many thanks!
Do you normally use primer under rustoleum or just the paint itself?
@@lukem7203Yes, rustoleum rusty metal primer. For about $20 total rustoleum is absolutely fine for my garage kept mower. LOL
Prime gives it a much better finish and longer lasting protection
@@lukem7203 Always primer, as a former pro painter....didn't watch the video yet.
Rustoleum with some friend’s attempts doesn’t last well. But I’ve had great performance with rustoleum on prepped and primed steel including a 1999-ish rebuild and refinish on a heavily used boat trailer I still own. It’s still mostly clean almost 25 years later.
At the end of the day this vid is a test but 27:24 it is NOT indicative of the performance potential of the products tested- it’s actually a test of his application methods.
29:56 this statement right there clearly demonstrates that the tester has no knowledge of how to achieve protection of a substrate with coatings.
It was so silly when he suggested that one coating or another “stopped” rust from corroding under his scratch-test samples. The surface coating mil thickness may influence apparent rust-creep, but rust creep happens when the coating is compromised (his scratch test) and other than electrolytic agents (galvanizing for example) the base metal’s rust potential is going to be essentially the same apples to apples.
39:12 “corrosion fighters” is another example of how little chemistry he understands.
40:41-40:52 it’s amazing he can say that with a straight face - anyone that’s been skiing at Stowe has likely seen some of what i painted with rustoleum in the 1990’s. Probably been recoated at least once since but that isn’t the point.
He’s just retail-vulnerable and uninformed.
Interesting. I have not used POR15 in years. Apparently there has been a change. My results in the 2000s was very positive. Stuck hard with a very hard finish. In fact, it was used to repair chipped finishes on black powdercoating. They must have cheaped out. A plug for Zero Rust. Pretty good stuff..
Metal prep isn't just phosphoric acid. It has extra stuff that does a light zinc phosphate conversion coat on the steel. Conversion coats passivate the metal. The conversion coat is corrosion resistant, especially with additional cathodic-like protection such as a zinc phosphate or chromated primer. If your steel parts are small enough, you can take an even bigger step and Parkerize the part. The metal prep applied at room temperature only provides a thin layer of protection. Parkerizing, done at 180F on your stove in a big pot, results in a much heavier and better conversion coat. It also results in pores that provide an excellent bonding surface for primer coats. You can also oil them with your favorite oil film product, and the oil will get into the pores. I've Parkerized many steel parts then shot them with zinc phosphate epoxy primer and then an enamel top coat. And those parts are bullet proof.
Now a safety note. Hydrofluoric (HF) acid is not Muriatic acid. Muriatic is hydrochloric acid. HF acid is NASTY stuff. You won't even realize you're burned right away. It gets absorbed into your skin and then your body and bloodstream. It then attacks the calcium in your bones. By the time you are feeling bad, the damage is done. Immediate medical attention is required if you get HF on your skin. Some wheel cleaner and metal brightening products contain HF acid. It's a relatively low concentration, but you must wear gloves!
I don't use these products, at least not right now, but I did buy the POR 15 metal prep for things I don't want to take the time to Parkerize. They were selling it cheaper than anyone else at the time of purchase. It's all basically the same stuff, so brand name isn't important here. Maybe they were selling it cheap to entice me to buy their paint :-)
Finally, there's a difference between barrier protection, passivation, and cathodic protection. Most of these products only provide barrier protection. Think of barrier protection like a condom with all of the associated risks of tearing and leakage. Passivation -- metal prep and Parkerizing -- and cathodic protection prevent the corrosion from happening at a chemical level. If you really want to save your steel, use cathodic protection. But the zinc bars need replacing every so often. The happy spot is passivation with a good conversion coat like Parkerizing or metal prep followed by a corrosion-inhibiting primer such as zinc phosphate followed by good barrier protection.
To be honest, though, if it's your car's frame that you're protecting, just Fluid Film it. It's cheaper and faster than paint. But Fluid Film is just barrier protection at the end of the day. Didn't you do a video recently where Fluid Film was holding up after several years of abuse?
I dont disagree with anything you said. I've done tons of videos on FF but there are situations where you can't just spray FF on the surface.
A utility trailer for example can't be all oily and slippery. Paint is the only option. Hense, this video.
SOLID GOLD: "The happy spot is passivation with a good conversion coat like Parkerizing or metal prep followed by a corrosion-inhibiting primer such as zinc phosphate followed by good barrier protection."
Regarding your last point, I have come to that conclusion a while back. For vehicle underbody protection, paints just don't get the job done. Any thoughts on fluid film vs cosmoline vs some of the other products like that?
Why use Fluid Film when Surface Shield is soooo much better?
He's proven that with previous videos many times.
Have you seen any of the other videos where he's tested Surface Shield?
@@El_Diablo_LI I have not. How does Surface Shield compare to cosmoline (CRC corrosion inhibitor)?
I've used POR 15 for many years with zero failures.. I've also used other rust encapsulators that also work quite well... surface prep and just making sure everything is as clean as possible will help tremendously .. great video
That last panel with the three coats, one Mastercoat, one raptor liner, and one master coat clear is crazy! You have the most definitive testing on corrosion-resistant coatings and paints on RUclips.
Dude, 74 yrs old here, mechanic, and engineer - - and have tried just about everything. You have done an outstanding, fantastic, job of comparing the products. Most I don't know but POR15 I do. You are exactly correct - it is crap. A '77 C10 all over rework in '96 and the frame has just kept pealing. Worse, is that the sheeting you mentioned makes rust much worse. This is a million dollar test series, literally! One thing - - primers. It would be fantastic to see a zinc chromate and/or strontium chromate primer tested with some of the other topcoats. They are hard to get now, but DoD scratch testing shows outstanding results, although the reports are not as complete as yours. The USArmy has some good specs for equipment that gets shipped (literally) and then sits a long time in various climates.
WELL DONE!!
You did a very good job, if I may, could I add 4 decades of experience in the coatings business ...
-Mill thickness is a very critical measurement to give a accurate representation of comparisons
-The manufactures recommend proper mill thickness is critical to the end result !
-ANY primer product that contains CHROMATES (spell?) will have the best results by a VERY ENORMOUS difference...that’s why most companies and governments removed them from their product line up...also the “Environmental” issues.
-All primers are porous and require a topcoat to seal the substrate!
-And finally, like most things from paint to house foundations...GOOD PREP WILL GIVE YOU THE BEST RESULTS!
-mechanical adhesion (sanding, grinding sandblasting) on any of these products will give you better results! It gives more surface contact.
-duct tape for adhesion results😳 industry standard is 3m 233+ automotive masking tape... good for you, you did a tuffer test than industry standards!
My hats off to you for putting the time into this tedious task!
A tip for DIYers it’s usually the sharp radiuses that will give you product performance let down...
your corners and edges is where it requires special attention as surface tension tends to peel products away from corners/ edges upon application weather spraying/ brushing/ dunking... inside AND outside radius’s & corners!
My only experience in coatings is a bike restoration, but everything you have said seems spot on.
What about zinc coatings and zinc rich primers? Unless you literally stand there sanding or welding them with no personal protection they can hardly hurt you. And a lot of people and soils are zinc deficient anyway ;)
And for the adhesion test it would be interesting to prepare a slightly larger part with varying surface finishes. Sandblasting, wire wheel, different grits of sandpaper.
As for the environmental issues what makes really annoys me is fake "eco solutions".
In my opinion one of the worst examples is safe plastic in products that should last! (and cheap long lasting in disposables or disposables in general)
Philips LED desk lamp that started to deteriorate and turned into a sticky mess after two years. New 3D printed case, tiny heatsink and it's going strong for 5 years now. Whenever I see things like "saved x grams of CO2 using degradable plastic on a phone back cover" I only think how a tiny 1$ part will make something that costs hundreds if not thousands and used up a ton of rare materials break down and become e-waste right when warranty expires.
P.S Before going fully ceramic almost all dental parts were Ni-Cr-Fe
I can't thank you enough for doing the work we can't (we'll only paint the frame of 1 or 2 vehicles). Years ago I sandblasted & refinished the frame of my F150 with POR15...it was supposed to be the best. My frame is pretty rusty now. Thorough and well thought out process....Thanks again.
When painting over rust, I found that the rust has to be as dry/moisture free as much as possible, rust is a moisture sponge, rust needs moisture to grow. If you coat moisture free rust with a good rust convertor and then a topcoat, you will have a long lasting coating. A warm, dry shop or a hot summer day with low humidity works for a frame coating, for small rust coating repairs I warm up the rusted area with a paint strip gun before applying the rust convertor.
I've had a lot of luck using a propane torch as part of paint prep on any sort of "porous" metal (rusty, cast iron, aluminum).
Not trying to cook it, you just want to "sweat" moisture or oil out of the pores, so that the paint/primer has a solid surface to adhere to.
I've always prepped the metal and never had a single issue using POR15. It's been on my jeep rockers for years in the Northeast US salt, it's still hard as a rock. I did topcoat it as directed.
@@Ry_Guy how rusty was the metal?
Having read so much about this paint, I thought I would try it. My test is challenging for any paint - rust-proofing the underside of a lawn mower deck.
What I did: after removing any loose rust, I applied the recommended two stage preparation process then two coats of this paint and allowed several days to dry before running the mower. I ran the mower for one grass cutting session - about an hour of continuous use cutting two acres of grass, then inspected the painted surface.
My conclusion: if the preparation steps are carefully followed the paint does seem to adhere well to rusty areas. However, it appeared to have a tendency to peel off as a sheet in areas that were not rusty. I know this paint is described as POR (paint over rust), but clearly in reality a useful paint needs to cover a range of surfaces, not just rusty ones. I’m afraid for this reason, combined with the ridiculously high price, especially if the preparation stages are used (and it seem to work much less well if they are not - I tried this also), I can’t give a more favourable assessment.
One thing I do know though is that this stuff is very expensive - at now £55 for a US pint(!) of just the paint (not including the preparation). And for those in the UK, please note, this is not a British ("imperial") pint of 20 imperial fluid ounces (568 ml) but a significantly smaller American pint of only 16 US fluid ounces (473 ml).
Hey Repair Geek, thanks in part to your previous videos I used the Mastercoat silver primer on my snowblower last summer, after stripping most of the rust with a grinder and wire wheel/flap disc. I followed the directions, waited for a low humidity day, it was really think going on and coated well. I then used the rust oleum John Deere yellow for a top coat. I also tried adding a top coat of rust oleum bed liner to the circular snow chute area that had been totally rusted and gets the most abuse from the impeller scraping against the metal. I am pleased to report that so far this winter the paint is holding up well and looks great, however the bed liner did not adhere well enough to the chute and is now totally stripped off after just a few snow storms. I also started using fluid film on the entire machine, as well as coating the snow chute before each storm. The fluid film makes a big difference in the performance of the machine. I'm not worried about rust now since I used the master coat, just have to keep the chute from being ground down to bare metal. Big thanks to you for your videos, I really appreciate it. Glad to know spending the time and money on Mastercoat is worth every penny! Happy New Year.
My first impulse was "this is way too long"....but now, after watching, I realize why. You take a very deep dive into testing these products....even mixing a few together to see if it can enhance the performance. Wow. I'm edified, and impressed. And, now subscribed!
Here in AZ, we don’t have as much need for corrosion resistance, so many of us use Rustoleum Hammered paint on metal we want to last.
you could painta frame with crayons down there and it would last , Anyone from AZ has no skin in this game and should be disallowed from even watching these videos LOL JK
Lucky buggers. Lol
I was really rooting for rustoleim. I swathed everything on my 67 olds with zinc oxide primer followed by rustoleim black. 30 yrs ago. Still Perfect, economical coating. However, driven only on sunny dry days.
Good to know, I just did videos of coating the bottom and engine bay of my Camaro restoration project with Mastercoat & AG111 because of the video you did with your mustang. Thank you for the hard work! I’ll add this video to my description so people have more information to make a decision with!
Well done, none of us want to paint twice because we believed the product info. Very clear testing and frank opinions. Quote "Farankly it's crap" love it. Thank you for investing time and money in this and hope it pays off for you.
You honestly have some of the most useful content on RUclips!
15 years in on a por15 frame, it.still looks as good as the day it was painted
Por15 is for already rusted metals this is what it sticks to.
Absolutely brilliant and professional testing! As the owner of a 43 year old jeep that lives outside near the ocean in Fl., this info is incredibly valuable. Por15 constantly dissapointed me no matter how I prepped, sooner or later would just flake off in sheets leaving bare metal which would rust heavily right away. I went to rustoleum which initially I was very happy with until I noticed corrosion "bleed thru" after only a year or so requiring constant re-coating. Sooo, I got the exact same results as your test on rustoleum and por15 and will be using raptor/ag111 from now on. THANK YOU!
Great detailed testing. On hobby sites, people constantly swear by POR 15 and other "encapsulators". But, as you imply, "friends don't let friends use POR 15". I focus on de-rusting. Small parts I submerse in EvapORust for a week, especially with a jar of fasteners. After cleaning thoroughly - shake parts together in water many times until the water comes out clear, I soak in phosphoric acid (Buy as concrete etch at Home Depot) which converts any remaining rust in pits to hard black (iron phosphate?). Large parts I wrap in rags soaked in the above, covered with plastic. With very rusty parts like exhaust manifolds, the rags get bonded to the surface after phosphoric acid by black stuff which must be wire-brushed off. Small fasteners I then paint with rattle-can lacquer or sometimes soak in thick gear oil which gets drawn into surface pits.
I just got done watching this video and wanted to add my experience with a few of these.
POR15 was always marketed as a rust cover-up, sort of a last ditch effort to save a rusty frame or chassis. Back in the late 80's I had a very rusty 1972 F150, the frame was rusted to the point where if something wasn't done it would surely fail or rust through. It was a scaly mess. SInce I had to replace some body mounts, and the fuel tank, I removed the bed and cab. The frame was a disaster, rusted far worse than I thought and my goal went from fixing it to getting a few more years out of it. A buddy had bought a bunch of POR15 but not used it the year before and gave it to me to use on the frame. I pressure washed the frame, knocked off as much loose rust as I could with an 8" wire wheel on a grinder, then sprayed the whole frame down with their prep, followed the directions, then finally gave it two heavy coats of the POR15 black. It sat a week before I put it back together. I drove that truck for two more years, traded it to a buddy who drove it for 9 more before falling asleep one night and totaling it. 11 years after coating the frame, no new rust came through, and there was no peeling or chipping, other than where the rusty frame collapsed and bent when it came to rest at the base of a rather large oak tree
I feel it did what it was advertised to do, but again, it was free to me.
Knowing now what I didn't know then, there are better fixes for rust, several companies make tannin based 'rust converter' coatings which convert the rust from iron oxide to iron phosphate. Basically these are just a solution of phosphoric acid. This creates a black protective barrier from the elements and stops further rust. Paint isn't even needed once this is achieved.
Following this up with any paint with good adhesion will give the finished result a much better visual appeal. Any one of the spray in bed liner coatings would work well for this since the texture hides the pitting and rough surfaces. None however 'fix' any strength loss due to severe corrosion and I would never substitute this for a fix for minor surface rust that could be removed with more conventional methods.
Rustoleum has been notoriously bad for UV resistance, a good example is a trailer which I painted a year ago with gloss black, and now, 13 months later its turned nearly completely to a flat black finish with bits of paint loss here and there.
Another painted with some old, left over MAB alkyd enamel that was over 20 years old in the can, has lasted now for four years with no fading. Too bad its no longer made.
With any coating, prep is everything and I find a final wipe with either a final wash product or rubbing alcohol works best to ensure a clean surface. This means both on the bare surface, and the primer itself once its dried, before the finish coat.
I replaced the bed on my 02 F250 four years ago, it had rusted away from the inside out. The frame was ugly but mostly just rust stained from the metal that disintegrated above it.
I cleaned the frame down to bare metal in most places, primed it with etching primer, then coated it with a two heavy coats of Rustoleum spray in bed liner. I had to remove the bed to do a fuel pump last fall, the bed liner was well adhered to the frame and anything else it touched, so much so that it was nearly impossible to remove from several bolts and screws without a grinder and wire brush. Chipping at it with a screwdriver wasn't working.
One older coating that I had good luck with in the past was a product called Corroless, a red primer colored coating with a phosphoric acid content to convert the rust it was sued to paint over. It was sold both on the industrial market and even Eastwood had it in small cans. I believe it was originally engineered for use on offshore oil rigs and its the toughest stuff I ever found. Its still made but I've not found a local source for it where I'm at these days.
I used that on a painted boat trailer that had seen saltwater use. I patched the rusted out sections and coated the frame with it, then followed it up with two coats of tractor paint from Central tractor back in 1997. It looks no different now then it did the day after I painted it 28 years ago.
This comment needs more recognition, although maybe advertised as being able to be used on fresh smooth metal or sandblasted metal, I feel the test repair geek did didn’t portray where por15 actually shines.
In scaly last ditch effort metal and frames por 15 has saved many frames for me. It never has stuck good to freshly prepped or sandblasted metal or even slightly rusted metal.
But real aggressive scaly rust it’s done great and never have any issues with it flaking
That said I generally don’t like por 15 and hate working with frames in that condition so overall the product is pretty pointless but over scaly I have had success
I've always sort of thought that all of the rust converter type products seem to adhere best to 'converted rust'. Even Corroless doesn't adhere well to bare, clean steel, but on anything with a rust coating its fine. In reality, there's no reason to use a 'Rust converter' type coating over bare steel. The trick is not to treat those coatings as paint but as a rust encapsulator to be painted over POR 15 just happens to do both. @@lukegoodwin2160
I did the nottom of a mower deck that had been left sitting over water snd it was drrply rusted underneath. Rural king was selling a product called AgriGuard that is made for high corrosion places like fertilizer plants and battery trays I had to chip thick scale away but if the rust wS well adhered it stayed on.
AgriGuard stayed on and was extremely easy to get coverage. If you put a second coat on, it has to be done within right hours or so.
Mowing in juicy pasture dies not affect the stuff and battery acid beads right up .
Black color is not for UV applications, but they make a grey version that is resistant for more money.I run Wheel Horse tractors abd decks made from high quality cold rolled steel. Great product
This test series was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Excellent approach to all points of failure and using different methods to test was most impressive. I have a 1966 El Camino that I have restored and I would have loved to have watched this before I started on the body work. I used POR 15 and Eastwood products but would have went a different route had I seen this video. My car does not see rain and is never exposed to salt but I still would have taken a different tack.
Thanks a million. I thought the world of por 15 and found out after having brake fluid leak on to my frame(painted in por 15) it peeled right off like your demonstration. I was very disappointed after so much time I spent preparing and painting my frame with this stuff. Appreciate what you did for us.
I've known about the Matstercoat products for awhile. I'm very happy I coated the bottom of my car with the mastercoat silver and their AG111 topcoat. (mad at myself I didn't raptor coat it after that for looks mainly) Then in my wheel wells, I used the mastercoat silver again with the ag111 but topped it with the raptor liner 2k but in a spray can. Since my car won't be seeing any salt or rain this will last for generations.
Loved the video and the scientific method being applied here. Tremendous amount of useful comparison data. I was hoping to see more testing of products on top of existing rust but the one test panel you did for that was still very helpful. About 20 years ago I put the Rustoleum over top of some rust floor panels and my results mimic yours - rust did not take long to come back through or spread. POR15 has great marketing and probably works well enough for the average time someone hangs onto a car, but I am looking for a long lasting finish that my kids can appreciate on the car years after I am dead and gone. Thank you for taking a tremendous amount of time to explore this. I recently visited Ohio and the amount of salt on the roads and all over my rental car made me thankful my car isn't subjected to that regularly
I was about to coat my frame in por 15, you just saved me (and my friends who recommended it to me) a lot of money! Rustoleum for the win!
Tall silver can. Works great
Most comprehensive corrosion vid I've ever seen. I would like to the results on a spreadsheet but overall it is excellent. VERY well done!
I repainted a frame on a pickup , cab/bed-off restoration, and I had originally wanted to use POR15 but I never got around to ordering it and since I couldn't purchase it local to me, I bought something I could get local...
That turned out to be Rustoleum in the silver can (Professional High Performance Protective Enamel) Oil-Based paint in 1-gallon cans. 243995 Semi-Gloss Black.
8 Years later and the frame still looks amazing... I have no regrets especially considering the affordable price and local availability.
I used no primer or base coat. I cleaned the frame with degreaser, wire brushes and a power washer and applied the paint directly to the bare metal frame.
Wow, that sounds like great results. Do you deal with salt and other harsh environments?
@@dostuffchannel
I'm in South Texas... Basically, the perfect environment for a rust-free vehicle so I can't say how it would hold up in a harsh environment. With that said, the paint still looks great and there are no signs of peeling or any issues to speak of.
I make the occasional trip to the TX coast for some beach fun, and I get it very muddy on occasion, and the paint has held up well to a lot of power washing.
@@-joe-davidson you're lucky, in rust belt there would probably be rust in 4-6 years
@@kikonoss123
Maybe but I doubt it.
The paint is holding up very well.
It's definitely better than not doing anything at all.
@@-joe-davidson They put so much liquid salt on the roads where I live in the winter that a muffler lasts 3-5 years if you are lucky.
Nice work. As stated by a few others, I too, used to work in R&D for a 1st/2nd tier automotive supplier. We performed the same tests you did and more. The main difference is we would test multiple samples/lots of the same product, not just one. This gives a view of the consistency and reliability of the product. I know its hard for a youtuber to do the same as it is cost prohibitive. However, your tests were impressive nevertheless.
After looking at the MasterCoat SDS, it appears its not much more than a modified two part polyurethane mixture (isocyanate catalyst). Standard industry stuff with adhesion and UV blocking mods, they've just adopted it for rust encapsulation/coating instead of paint for a car or concrete floor.
You covered all the bases here 👍 Awesome video . Surface shield for the WIN .
Rust Bullet is the best. Was disappointed to see it not in this test. I used it for 20 years and great results. Still have a car with my 1st ever use, 1 coat, sat outside and rust never broke through. It’s been over 20 years and I can show the proof.
Yeah, I was hoping for Rust Bullet here too. Maybe next test?
Great video and matches my experience. I bought a 1969 GTO to restore in 2004 and sand blasted the frame and painted it with por15. After 5-6 years por15 was peeling off in sheets as described here. I took the body back off the frame and wire wheeled the por15 off and painted the frame with eastwood primer and chassis paint. Been that was for 10 years now and still looks great. Por15 will never touch my garage again, and i advise others to not use it.
WOW !!! VERY COMPREHENSIVE TESTING!!!
Thanks for putting forth this great effort and expense! 👍👍👍
I am a big POR-15 user and advocat and this is very instersting and makes me sad that it performed so badly. Thank you for all the time and testing.
Very informative video, thank you so much for all of your hard work and time. I’m sure this was not an easy video to make, considering all of the information that you provided, not to mention how much time out of your life, it took to conduct all of these experiments.
Great comparison video. I used KBS paint brushed directly on a freshly blasted Silverado truck frame a couple of years ago. There is no peeling that coating off, and it does not scratch as easy as regular paint. Pricey, but works great. For some projects I also use rustoleum with a hardener added. Is a very economical and functional coating that is easier to cleanup than epoxy paint coatings.
Really great and thorough reviews my dude. Especially loved the parts where you stacked different products on top of one another for maximum effect. That's some next level stuff right there.
I really appreciate the scientific method and your application of it is quite approchable to non-scientists. The mastercoat and raptor results were very pleasant surprises. An extra lesson for me - here in super-dry Arizona, using Rustoleum on clean metal is probably better than good-enough, but for any harsher climate (wetter, saltier), there are several better choices. Thanks for the comprehensive analysis!
I'm an Arizonian who has to paint two vehicles on a budget and you are 100% correct. Rustoleum will probably be fine. But after seeing these tests, I am now considering a topcoat for UV protection. That's our big weather issue and it appears that Rustoleum isn't so great there.
At the moment, I've lost two small decks to the Arizona sun in less than seven years (with annual maintenance) and we're rebuilding with concrete. UV destruction is no joke.
Amen - hence why you see everyone that has a utility trailer putting plywood covers over the tires when at rest, among other things :)@@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284
Do some more research and you'll find that the UNPAID testers out there have complete and opposite results. This test was a complete hack job with forced failures and shoddy prep.
I'm in Texas and we use POR15 topcoat on tons of our equipment. When prepped properly, it will outperform everything out there. Do some more research and don't believe this dude.@@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284
Thanks for taking the time to do this research - it’s tremendously helpful. Anyone who’s used any of these products, done a thorough job of the prep work and dealt with avoiding breathing the debilitating VOCs knows that it’s a job you don’t want to have to re-do.
One item I’d be interested in learning more about is material buildup thickness and how best to mitigate unwanted build-up in bolt holes, etc. that then require some filing….which seems to defeat the protection around those penetration points. I used foam plugs and other approaches on an old riding mower deck recently but was surprised to learn how tight the clearance tolerances were on those holes and mounting points when I went to reassemble. Removing the protective coating in those areas was unwelcome and counterproductive work.
Thanks again for all the work on this topic!
Love that I just watched Jay Leno have the owner of POR15 on his channel promoting the product, and this was the immediate next recommended video
Thank you for taking your time and money with this test we sure appreciate it and Happy New Year
Good to know, next spring I was planning on buying another set of POR15 and apply it to my car. But Mastercoat seems like a great alternative, I will give it a shot, thank you so much!
I appreciate all of the tests that you have done 👍 very detailed process and no shortcuts. Im saving this video for future projects. Thanks!
I did a very large project about 15 years ago that involved the chemical engineers at POR 15. Turns out that they have cheapened the chemical formulation of the paint. So if you get commenters that say "I did a project years ago and it still looks great", they might be right, the paint from years ago is different than the paint you can get now. I can tell you that the project still looks great, although the red has mellowed into more of a brown, but the egdes of the panels have not rusted, and there is no bubbling of the paint.
I've been restoring old rusty classic cars for 25 years and I've been using POR15 the whole time. I love it, it does what it's supposed to do. I've never had any problem with it other than getting it off my hands after it dries. I love this stuff. I have also used it to repair old gas tanks. Works great.
Same. Haven’t used it on old gas tanks,but maybe in the future. I like replacing the tanks when possible. The used tanks, if still good or salvage able sell quick at swap meets. Unfortunately a lot of what I do are 67 - 72 C10, K10, K20 pickups and move the tank out of the cab. Those tanks are scrap metal! 😂😂. I haven’t had issues even using the K20 all winter each year & I live in a rust belt. I take the box, cab & fenders off so I have 100% access to the frame. Most of the time I want near new quality so the motor, transmission, differential, transfer case and most of the suspension gets removed. They all get the brakes fully replaced and lots of them get 4 wheel discs. The frames often get soda blasted so they are bare metal and free of rust. It’s worth it, if the truck can be worth it when done.
Thanks I am restoring a 1967 Mustang and I will use the Raptor Liner on the underhood panels and maybe under the body.
a good and informative test and Im suprised at how poorly POR15 performed. That said, in the UK, POR15 is marketed as a motorcycle fuel tank sealer. I used it on a tank that was heavily corroded internally and it been fine for the last 6 years, it also seals small leaks
I've used POR-15 tank sealer, bed liner and undercoating with excellent results. I did the entire inside of my
Jeep CJ with their bedliner. This was at least 20years ago, they may have changed.
I've used it in my motorcycle gas tank with great results. That was about 5 years ago.
My saltwater trailer is painted with it. Ten years, its not rusting.
Starting to restore the engine bay of my 68 Mustang. Glad I came across this video as i was suggested POR15 from my local paint shop. Unfortunately I've already spent the money on all the degreasers, prep, and rust preventative. Might switch gears to the other products and use POR15 on some smaller projects or parts that are easier to touch up and get to. Appreciate the time and commitment you took for this video. Could save people lots of time and headache on future projects. People say prep work is everything when it comes to painting, but its useless if the product itself can't hold up either.
Great job with this. Thanks for the huge effort putting this together.
Firsr off, I give you credit for taking the time and spending the money to do all these tests. I have noticed that you seem a bit slanted against POR15, and thats fine. I have used POR15 for many years, and had great luck with it. Im sure thwere are other products that work as well. Lets face it, no matter how much of what ever you can come up with and apply to metal, sooner or later if exposed to salt it will rust. It seems that the natural occurrence of rust seems to always have more patience than we do and will always win in the end. I grew up in the mid west, and saw many cars and trucks get eaten by salt. I found the one and only true way to prevent this, is I moved to Arizona and problem solved. Thanks for the video, well done.
I sandblasted the frame of my crew cab and coated with POR15, but did not top coat, as directed, as it was not available to me at the time. The frame was stored outside my buddies shop for a month and a half due to other commitments. When I got back to it, it went from BLACK to GRAY. I was not happy about that. I sandblasted the frame again, and found the coating was coming off in sheets. NOT impressed. People tried telling me that I HAD to have rust to make it work its best, which made NO sense to me whatsoever. I have gone to epoxy primer and paint (ENDURA) with satisfying results in colour retention, gloss and durability. Glad to see some REAL testing in a controlled manner. Thank you!
POR15 is intended to be applied straight over rusted metal. I believe the abbreviation POR actually stands for Paint Over Rust haha
I've had great experience with POR-15 applied 15-20 years ago. No rust, no flaking, no chipping.
Loved the video. As a guy who has used POR15 for over 20 years, I was intrigued by MasterCoat, but as a Canadian looking at their website I discovered “ WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY AND DO NOT HAVE DISTRIBUTORS OUTSIDE OF THE USA AT THIS TIME.” Bummer.
Yep agree - I'm in Australia and went straight to google to see where I could buy it here, sadly not within a bull's roar of my domain.
@@chrismorgan8641 was thinking the same Raptor coat with the primer first looks to be the best here in OZ
And that's another reason why Por15 is much more popular. I'm also Canadian. Ease of purchasing is a large factor if you're not in the great USA.
Same issue here in the uk
@@Sugarkryptonite Eastwood will ship and given the results I think its probably a good alternative. Besides, these tests are EXTREME.
I used POR15 about 7 years ago on my. Truck frame and it held up pretty well. None of it came off. I scrubbed the frame with scotch bright pads and degreaser, then acid cleaned, then applied POR15. I've seen it fail on a buddy's truck though. I think it's a combination of prep, and ambient temperature when applied, along with the environment the vehicle is used or stored in. I used Eastwood this year to completely restore my frame and top coated it with enamel.
Seems like no matter what product you use some people have good results and some people don't.
You are a beyond next level rust treatment scientist - thanks for a great video
This is by far the most valuable video I have watched while working on my project car. I am very close to painting the bare frame of my 57 Chevy and everyone around me beats the POR 15 drum. You are a life saver.
Take a look at their results before you decide.
At least we know this video was not sponsored by POR-15. lol
so glad i watched this. literally returning the por15 i just bought
You earned a like and a subscriber. Damn good work. Excellent testing and video.
i put por- 15 on a 08 chevy silverado, that had just started rusting on wheel wells, and a few years later wheel wells rusted out...And i put several coats on.
The amount of dedication you put into testing of these products is amazing. Kodoos to you for doing this. Great job. 👍👍👍🙏
I have had por results with por 15. Sand blasted and prepped a set of truck axles, had peeling and faded paint after one year, no top coat. In the instructions it states topcoat was optional. My mistake.
I guess another possibility with the adhesion testing is that the duct tape bonded better to the POR-15 than it did other products. That might explain why it didn't peel off with the POR-15 that was top coated. Because, maybe, the duct tape didn't bond as strongly to the top coat.
@Glock21guy. Exactly! There is no way a top coat can change adhesion of a bottom coat!! Just reduces the adhesion of the test tape. 👏👏👏
Raptor liner, just keeps on impressing me, more and more.
Love your research.. love your content and channel.. great work..
Should try chassis saver. Similar to por15 and kbs. I believe it is superior to both when applied with minimal prep. I like the kbs products but the required prep is very time consuming.
God damn I love these videos. Now I can argue with my friends and tell them I’m right they’re wrong
Why do you think I made this video? I want to do the same thing haha.
I used a different Rustolium in-between my floor pans and seat perchs. It was a rust conversion formula. No complaints. Obviously this is a protected area. The only moisture is from condensation. 8 years later it looks brand new.
weird I use a lot of POR15, but im a stickler for the process and I live in NYS, worst salt yull deal with and POR holds up quite nicely.
Ive used coal tar epoxy for barges and dredges used in salt water and brackish water from houma,LA to brownsville, TX. Its impressive for what is asked of it.
I used POR 15 about 25 years ago on my Camaro restoration and it looks as good today as ever and would use it again
yes i agree with you por15 keeps the rust out almost forever and with a perfect shiny black...por 15 is the best no doubt
I used high heat POR-15 on my old headers and it worked really well
This was a great video. Really great effort. I am curious if at some point you get a chance to do a similar aval in your salt setup on powder coated metal as a comparison. I know it;t not a practical comparison for auto body purposes but on frame and chassis items it certainly could be. Thanks for your efforts on the matter of rust prevention and protection.
Great testing. It confirms for me that using Rustoleum all these years was not only economically the best choice, but mechanically as well.
So I take you really hate Por-15. Well its worked well enough for me for so far but your testing speaks for it self... Thanks
Maybe not hate for the product itself, so much as the overzealous support it gets when alternatives are mentioned.
Yea ditto. Did my YJ frame 6 years ago with metal prep, por 15 then fluid film. Only thing I do is hit it with another can of fluid film before each winter. Live in Canada and frame is still the same condition as it was 6 years ago.
I really appreciate all the time and effort that you put in this video. Change the way I am paining.
I've been telling my customers for years that POR-15 was the biggest scam in the restoration industry. I always had a suspicion that it was just Rustoleum in a re-labled package.....but apparently it's not even as good as Rustoleum. 😂
My experience exactly, and people continue to argue with me, boy are they going to be sorry...
Where people have problems is not removing all corrosion. It's impossible to halt corrosion by painting over it. When I was an aircraft structural maintainer in the Air Force we spent months of our school just learning about corrosion and all paint does is keep water (the electrolyte) from contacting the metal. You have to remove all corrosion as well as a few thousandths more metal as well or it will continue corroding. If you do that any good primer and paint will keep it from corroding. The rust reforming ingredients in things like Rustolium and POR15 are better than nothing but won't help you if you paint over rust. If you make a metal patch it has to be the same metal as well to avoid galvanic corrosion.
FYI - POR-15 is a moisture cure product, nothing like Rustoleum chemically. So not only does it not work any better, it also starts to hardens in the can once you open it in a humid environment!
Great Advice. @user-mf5pv8jo4v
The one thing about POR-15 is how great it sticks to your skin. Takes forever to get it off your hands if you get some of it on you.
OUTSTANDING VIDEO...........PROFESSIONALLY DONE ALL THE WAY DOWN THE LINE.
Great video. I think the rustoleum would have performed better if a good primer was applied first.
@3gcraftsman.......use the Rustoleum Self Etching Primer under the topcoat....stuff is great 👍