35s No Lift (Part II) with AEV Jeep Gladiator Wheels | Inside Line
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- One of the best features of the 2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon is that it comes from the factory with highline fenders. These extra-large wheelwell openings create plenty of room for a 35-inch-tall tire direct from the factory. The main issue you’ll run into when upgrading to a 35 on the Rubicon Gladiator is that the 17-inch stock wheel is only 7.5 inches wide. This makes it a touch too narrow for the more common 35x12.50R17 tire.
On this episode of Inside Line, our Senior Off-Road Editor Ali Mansour will dive into what you need to know before purchasing aftermarket wheels for your Jeep Gladiator. He’ll walk you through offset, backspacing, and width requirements. Along with the wheel tech guide, he'll breakdown why he ultimately paired his 35x12.50R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers with the Pintler wheel from American Expedition Vehicles.
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Most knowledgeable video on RUclips!!! Definitely subscribed. What offset would you recommend for the sport/overlanders with out the max tow for 35x12.5. I know a lift would be needed
I think these AEV wheels would work. I’ve seen a few non-Rubicon Gladiators with -6 and -12 offset 17x9 wheels and 35s as well.
@@Ali_Mansour_Editor so o would be good with a -10
@@Aceinfinity-le8zc on a 9-inch wide wheel that would be around 4.5 inches of backspacing. I prefer to stay closer to 5 (or more).
@@Ali_Mansour_Editor I have an 8.5 -10. It’s about 4.35 backspacing.
I’ve run 35s on my last three Jeeps & never felt the need to go bigger. Running moderate trails (fire paths) & daily driving puts 35s in the sweet spot for stock gearing, power delivery, & sustainability.
I hear it doesn’t hit mpg that much either !
I know this is old, but what gear ratio do you usually run the 35s with?
@@andrewiglinski148
I run these tires 35’s Jeep Gladiator with 3.73 gears. Excellent
You Only feel the need to go bigger when you park next to a Jeep with bigger tires 🫠
I’m running 17” Mopar beadlock capable wheels and 35 x 12.5 Toyo open country MT’s on my JTR and have zero issues. I couldn’t be happier with this set up. I do need the tazer mini though.
I want to thank you for this video. I went with the AEV BORAH DUALSPORT WHEEL and I put Micky Thompson Baja Boss AT 35x12.50x17 tires on. Needed more of an AT since I’m located in the KC area. Absolutely love this set up. Sits great on my 2024 Mojave X. I like the way they are tucked into my Jeep.
Thank you for this video and for focusing on information. I'm stepping up to 35's on my Gladiator and you answered all my questions (and saved me headaches). This video was well done and I'm subscribing for future JT content. Thanks!
I'm doing research for wheels and tires for my Jeep, and this was educational.
Thats such a clean look especially with the reminessince of the original look and total spectrum of all the factors involved, for longevity without having to upgrade a chain of events...super clean look with just a hint of aggressive 😉thank you for doing the video and taking the time on it for everyone to view I appreciate you
I have a Gladiator Sport with no lift running 35x12.50 on Rubi takeoff wheels. Mild rubbing on my aftermarket steel skid plate at full lock only. Trimmed the skidplate down and no issues at all. Run 28-30psi on the street for even wear. Looks great and keeps the wheels mostly tucked. Installing a 2" spacer lift later in the week should help a lot.
The Toyo OPEN COUNTRY A/T III - SIZE: 35X11.5R17LT will fit a stock Rubicon or Mojave wheel and no changes to the suspension and no rubbing.
You've really got a great channel. Great editing, narration and tempo: it truly helps us buyers and owners. Thank you! (Also got to give you credit for your T-shirts.)
Thank you!
You're not helping me decide between 35's or 37's. Great video plus love seeing your gladiator especially when it's exactly like mine.
Thank you!
37’s are the new 35’s 👍
I remember putting 35s on my 03 TJ and i thought it looked huge! Now i have 37s on my gladiator and it looks like they belong like that
37s on my sport with 4.88 gears, flat fenders and awesome off road and in the snow with BFG ATs
Negative offset and less backspacing also puts a lot of stress on the hub bearings as well causing premature wear
Awesome video...I’m looking at putting 35’s on my a Rubicon JL and this info is extremely helpful...thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Thank you.
Very informative and clear! Perfect content for me as we align on several things. I put the 315/70/17 BFG KO2 on my Sport Max Tow stock wheels along with a Terraflex 1.5inch level kit upfront. The stance is damn perfect and not too high for daily chores.
I had it flexed it out yesterday checking over clearance and its tight. I think it would hit the fenders if you were being careless on an extreme trail. I don't plan on doing anything too extreme yet so I am not worried for now.
FWIW, I am running 30psi cold to keep the contact patch at a maximum. (315/70 on 17x7.5)
I am also amazed at how there are hardly any wheels with the backspacing like the AEV offerings! Come on! I can't stand it how everyone has so much tire sticking out past the fenders on their rigs.
I really want to get some AEV wheels soon, and while I don't dislike the Pintlers, I really really would prefer the looks of the Salta. Let's see if I can hold out until they release them for the JT.
Nice explanation of wheel sizes and numbers.
Thanks a lot for this. It was very helpful, and well articulated (so to speak). On my JTR I went with Kanati Trail Hog 315/70-17s (65.4lbs) and Ion 7X9 (29 lbs) wheels with 0 offset and 5" backspacing all based on your advice. I did get the Mopar 2" lift kit if I decide to go to 37s, and I'll likely put it on anyway, and doubt I'll go to a larger tire.
Purchased a 21 Rubicon Gladiator this past Saturday
Literally have the exact way I want my (future) gladiator to look, from color to wheels and tires
I just did this on a 2021 ecodiesel gladiator rubicon with the AEV borah wheels and the same tires and it works perfectly.
Very helpful video, looking for my Gladiator
Very informative! I am considering a Gladiator and have been looking at tires and wheels. Thx
Solid video! I've been torn on which set up to go with and think you've just pointed me in the right direction!
I had similar AEV wheels on my JK, great looks, great wheel, nice fit! Congrets with the combination. Greetings from the Netherlands 👍✌️
That s10 is wild lookin.
Thank you.
Great video, thank you for such detailed and knowledgeable information
Sanks for video, and respect from Sakhalin island. Next my car will be Gladiator)!!!
I put the Nitto Trailgrappler 35/11.5/17 on my OE rims on my JT Rubicon.
I love that tire for the stock wheel. It’s the best fit.
This would have been my suggestion too. For an A/T or R/T option Kenda makes the Kleaver R/T in 35x10.5R-17 which would also work awesome with stock wheels.
If you measure bead to bead when the tire isn't mounted, it will tell you what width wheel would work best for your tire. 35" is usually 9.5" bead to bead, so a 17x9.5 would be a perfect size wheel for that tire.
I must have watched this video 50 times, great education. I bought the entire setup. Somewhere in here you mention a "weird wobble" that got taken care of? Can you elaborate? I am getting a wobble between 70 and 80 MPH, had the tires rebalanced but that didnt entirely resolve the issue. Wondering if you had something similar?
I actually found a handful of bolts that needed tightening in my front end. I don't know if they simply were not torqued enough from the factory or a few heat cycles made them loosen. After that bolt check, it's been perfectly fine. The main ones that were out of spec were the tie rods and steering gear box bolts.
@@DrivingLine thanks for the reply. And you should get a commission from AEV and Nitto!
Good info.... I am running 37’s on my JLUR with 2 1/2 lift. Slight rubbing at full flex. Not sure of exact offset/backspacing on my wheels but more than yours.
Great video ....I learn a lot .... you got me as subscriber ! ....keep them coming !👍
Thank you!
Very informative! Thanks
Another great video!!! 👍👍👍👍 thanks for sharing
Well done thorough video
I like your explanation regarding the backspace / offset and how this can have significant impact on your ball joints. I have a stock JLU Sport S. I have swapped to the factory Rubicon steel front bumper and Rubicon fenders to give me more wheel well clearance. What would your opinion be of Nitto Ridge Grapples 315 x 70 x 17 on the AVE Pintler wheel ?
You’ll be in spec for the tire and given you already have the Rubicon flares, you should be good on clearance in the wheelwells. The only thing I don’t know for certain is how much room you’ll have at full steering lock between the tire and a few components, namely the frame, sway bar, and lower front control arms. If you had the slightly wider Rubicon axles, I know without a doubt you would be fine. Unfortunately, the only JLU Sport I have personally modified had a 2 inch lift with 35s mounted on wheels with 4.75 inches of backspacing. My gut opinion is that you’ll be fine. However, I think it’s worth double checking with AEV. Given they now sell full turnkey JL’s, I bet they know the exact answer.
Great advice. Thanks for your hard work!
Good info, Appreciated!
Excellent video
Thank you.
This is a helpful video! Couple of questions though: 1) is backspacing and offset just different ways of saying the same thing, or are they different things? 2) if different, what’s the offset of your wheel? You said the backspacing is 5.77”, but I didn’t hear an offset. Thanks.
Thank you. Backspacing and offset are two separate measurements. However, knowing one, you can generally determine the other. The offset for these wheels is +25mm.
They look so good with 1" fron spacers for leveling, unless you have it loaded up with weight more than not
Awesome Video exactly what I was looking for, very good information and layout of the video.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent video. Thanks. The Pintler wheel has a recessed Valve stem housing. Will tire deflators (like the ARB EZ Deflate) work with the Pintler wheel. I called AEV ... They were not sure.
I don't have the ARB kit. I typically use a basic core remover. The head on my ViAir compressor is pretty bulky and fits on there fine. If you keep your TMPS sensors, the valve stem is actually pretty tall. I don't think you would have a problem. Unfortunately, I don't have that ARB kit to tell you without a doubt.
Love this look. Simple and clean.
This is a GREAT video! 👍👍 Thank you
Glad you liked it! Thank you.
I like tucked look but not wed to it can push the tires out a bit & use after market aluminum wider slide on slide off fenders Platinum truck jeep.
This is amzing. Love it. Kind of how I want to make mine.
Love the informative content. It seems like you use backspacing and offset almost interchangeably. What's the difference between the two? Thanks!
The simplest way to look at it is that offset is measured from the front side of the wheel and backspacing from the inside (mounting flange) of the wheel. In the truck world, I’ve always used backspacing to determine the right wheel set. It seems like in the car world, they use offset. Knowing one, you can typically figure out the other.
@@DrivingLine Such a good answer. Appreciate it.
@@DrivingLine Apologies if this has been covered. I had a look through the comments and couldn’t find anything. What was the offset on these wheels?
Cheers
Just sold me…thanks!
I see some people also do a 9" wide wheel for 35's, which is still 3.5" less than a 12.5" wide tire.
Most tire manufacturers recommend an 8.5 to 11 inch wide wheel for a 35 and 17-inch wheel. Going with a 9-inch-wide wheel is perfectly in spec.
Perfect! great insights.
AEV’s are sweet
You do have a build video on the that S10? I would like to see more of it
I have some build videos of it on my personal channel: ruclips.net/channel/UCs39On224p_B7wejymcSizw
So the Centerline Pattons you put on the white Gladiator are okay?? They looked great.
We didn’t have any issues for the light wheeling we did with it. Unfortunately, the owner of that Gladiator moved to Texas, so we haven’t been able to do much follow up with that build.
Awesome build …… what is the color of your Gladiator
Thank you. The color is called Gator.
I'm going to get a Tacoma TRD Pro and plan to put 33's on it. This is the best video I've seen that actually explains sizes and widths in depth. I'm not going to put a lift on the tacoma and plan to get wrangler duratracs. Will I need new wheels for that? I don't think I'll need to trim anything since the trd pro has an extra inch of clearance up front.
I'm honestly not sure. I would think much of it will have to do with how wide of a 33-inch tire you are going with. I know clearance can get tight with the upper control arm on a wider tire.
Thanks Ali- really informative and most helpful! 👍
Thank you!
Great video! I didn't go through all the comments, so maybe already answered ... but I do wonder if you have regeared or are you still on the stock 410,s and if so how was it riding/shifting?
I'm still running the stock 4.10 gears. Could it benefit from being re-geared? Sure, but it's not a must with 35s. It holds overdrive without issue the majority of the time, even on the highway. If I lived in the mountains, I would probably re-gear, but in the coastal plains of North Carolina, it's fine.
Another awesome video! Did you consider the AEV Savegre 2s in addition to the Pintlers?
Thank you. They other wheel I was eyeing was the AEV Borah Dualsport.
@@Ali_Mansour_Editor They look pretty good too..! I have the Savegre 2s on my JL, but haven't seem them in the flesh on a Gladiator yet.
Outstanding video! I’m seriously considering ordering a 2023 Jeep Gladiator and feel the stock 33” tires and 7.5” wide rims are a bit small. I am going to copy your AEV rim and Nitto Ridge Grappler setup EXACTLY since it looks absolutely perfect with just a tad of tire poke. Thanks again!!!
Thank you!
Jeep jeep gladiator 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
35 lb is kind of heavy weight wheel. gladiator rubicon stock wheel only 24.4 lb. it's way heavier than stock. 10lb each per wheel
You are correct. At the time I was filming this, I had it I’m my mind that the stock wheels were 32 pounds. I made mention of this in the written article on drivingline.com
Great job! How is the ride ?
Rides great. I found around 30 psi is the sweet spot for tire pressure on the road.
Excellent content. Obviously 12.5 inch wide is too wide for the factory rim but the average journalist is apparently clueless or can’t read.
Thanks for the video! Did you mount the 35 on the stock spare? I think that's what I heard... I mean the crowning that you mention would only happen until you get the damaged tire repaired/replaced.
Yes. The 35 fit perfectly in the stock spare location.
@@DrivingLine On the stock spare? Or did he get a 11.5" spare?
Stock spare wheel with a 12.50
As cool as a Gladiator is nothing beats the S10
I love my S-10. That’s for sure!
Great video that's how a gladiator should look 👌
Thank you!
Would this setup work with a 2020 Gladiator sport 35” wheels 11.5” wide and still keep them tucked within the wheel wells ? AEV wheels are nice but at $260 ea. ? I am retired and could still do that but it falls under that, “just because you can, should you” category. Do you know of any other wheels out there with the same geometry, yet less costly ?
Your videos are very educational and well done, thank you.
You can run a 11.50-inch-wide tire on this wheel. That's not an issue. If you have a Sport, you'll likely need a small lift to keep the tires from rubbing. Another thing to consider is if your Jeep has the Max Tow package. If it does, your axles will be the same width as a Rubicon, which will help prevent rubbing on the frame and suspension components as easily. AEV is one of the few wheels that have that type of off-set and backspacing that's designed for the Gladiator/Wrangler platform. You could always grab a set of stock Rubicon wheels since you are just using a 11.50-inch-wide tire. You can grab these used cheap. I see sets listed for $250 to $350 in my area. If you don't have Max Tow and find that you are rubbing on the frame and/or control arms up front, you could always install a set of wheel spacers. That would be your cheapest option if you didn't want to invest in the AEV wheels.
I had this all typed out, tried to add a photo and when I tried everything vanished so I will try again without the photo. I do appreciate your response. My Gladiator is one year old with 9,500 miles. It is the standard Sport, no tow package. When I purchased the vehicle I had the dealer install new wheels, KMC 54178550700 , 17x8.5 oomm 5x127 ($195 ea.). I kept the original wheels and also had the dealer take the tires the Sport came with and put them on the new wheels. Those tires are Bridgestone Dueler A/T 245/75R17/112 MS.
I also added air bags to the back (probably a mistake). Before changing to the 35” tires I was thinking about adding the Teraflex 3.5” suspension lift kit for the Gladiator which includes Falcon shocks. I am just not sure if I want to lift that high.
It sure seems like the AEV rims are the way to go. I will not be doing any rock climbing. I live in the Dakota’s with lots of gravel and section line roads. I will be spending a lot of time in the West/SW driving Forrest Service/BLM/Fire Trail roads.
Thank you again for your knowledgeable and informative videos.
Good video what’s the tire size and brand?
Thank you. It's a 35x12.50R17 Nitto Ridge Grappler.
Awesome video about fitment!
Thank you!
I have a Gladiator Mojave. I understand the spacing is a little different than the Rubicon. If I wanted 35s with no lift; would these tires/wheels work, or would I need something different?
Thanks, great video
Both the Rubicon and Mojave have the same width axles I do believe. Combine that with the fact that they both have the stock highline flares from the factory and you should be able to run this tire and wheel combo without issue.
@@DrivingLine thanks for the quick response
Best info video ever
Thank you!
Great video
Thank you.
Just got a gladiator rubicon. Will my steel bumper be a problem and rub on 35in?
Should not be a problem. If you want a little more clearance, just unbolt the endcaps on the bumper.
Great! Subscribed! One of the best channels for Jeep information! Thank you!
Very informative! 👍
What about factory wheels with slightly narrower tires? I'm thinking of doing this with my 23 Gladiator Rubicon and keeping the factory tire width but 35 tall, I'd also probably stick with the Wild Peak AT3's
A 35x11.50 works fine on the stock wheel.
Would these wheels be good on the Mojave as well? By the way,, GREAT video man. Thanks.
Yes. They would work fine on the Mojave.
@@DrivingLine Just ordered! Can't wait! thanks again for the great video.
I upgraded my factory sport wheels to a set of Quadratic CJ Retro wheels, specs are 5.2” of backspacing, +11mm offset,
8.5” wide with the same Nitto 35x12.50’s. Think I’m within the specs or should I consider upgrading before I start blowing out ball joints?
Those sound fine. Anything over 5 inches is good in my opinion.
@@DrivingLine thanks! Still considering changing out to the AEVs. I have a sport gladiator, do you think I’d still be ok with the Pintler wheel and the Nitto 35x12.5 with the standard sport axles? As far as a rub free scrub radius goes.
Can you please share the info in a chart or something like that
Thanks
Are you in North Carolina? if so where? I'm getting my Gladiator Rubicon soon and will want to get some work done. Raleigh areal here
Yes. I live in Wilmington. There is a good assortment of off-road shops in/around Raleigh. ReJeep Automotive, East Coast Gear Supply, and 4Wheel Parts are all places I've worked with in the past.
Great video as usual. If I recall, earlier on you had 35x12.5s with a negative offset wheel. Did you notice any rub on those?
Thank you. I’ve only had stock wheels on this Gladiator previous to these. If you are referencing the white one I did a review on a while back, it had wheels with a -12 offset and 4.53 inches of backspacing with 35x12.50R17 Ridge Grapplers. That Jeep belonged to a friend of mine that now lives in Texas. For the light wheeling it was doing, he didn’t have any issue with rubbing. However, I never got a chance to put it on an RTI ramp and really inspect where it might contact at full bump.
@@Ali_Mansour_Editor thanks that was the one. Appreciate the feedback - I actually went with a similar build as your friend through the help of your video.
Garo Nalabandian Awesome! That’s great to hear.
@@Ali_Mansour_Editor diff topic but curious on your opinion of the gladiator steering given the recent tsb.
Garo Nalabandian every one I have driven has been fine, but it does seem like there are some Gladiators with legitimate steering gearbox play. I like that you get a cast iron box instead of aluminum with the TSB. If mine was having an issue, I would definitely get it done. If I wanted a more robust steering upgrade, I would swap the OE stuff out for something from PSC Motorsports.
Any idea where you found that t-shirt? haha
My wife said she bought it for me at a store called 5 Below 😺
Given current AEV lineup, is there any advantage of the Pintler over the Salta XR for Gladiator or Borah Dualsport Wheel for Gladiator with hardware kit (not run as a beadlock)...given same backspacing on all? (i.e. any differences on tire compatibility, balancing, room for stick on weights, etc.)
I can’t speak for the Salta, but I know the Borah has more room for wheel weights and basically the same backspacing. I liked the classic design of this wheel, but the other ones would work fine.
35’s tucked in that far hit frame on tight turns
I’ve been running 35s on this for two years and I’ve never hit the frame. Not once.
We got a Gladiator Rubicon specifically because we wanted more towing capacity; not so much for off roading, but we would still like to have bigger tires for the appearance. If you weighted this set up with maximum weight on the tow bar, would there be an issue with rubbing?
You should be fine. I could fully cycle the tire without rubbing in the rear.
Would that 35x12.50 work on a 20x 8 inch stock high altitude trim wheel? Wonder if the tire would stick out of the wheel well much. Don’t know about the offset
It depends on the off-set/backspacing. The wheelwell on the Rubicon is fairly large, so you can get away with a lot. Even with a wheel with 4.75 inches of backspacing, it should work.
Guess this combo wouldn't work with max tow bc of front fender
Max tow has the same axle width as the Rubicon, but you don’t have the extra fender clearance. It would probably worked on the street, but you definitely wouldn’t have the fender clearance to fully cycle it off-road and not rub.
Is the AEV wheel in this video good in the Mojave? I’m looking at keeping with the Falken AT line 35’s.
Yes. Those would work fine with that trim.
The real question is, what if there are 5 people sitting inside the Jeep and a loaded cargo bed, it would definitely be lowered, right? And if so, then the tires would then rub against the fenders flares.
It wouldn’t really matter. The axle is still going to bump in the same location. I have tested essentially the same set up with a 37 and it works fine out back. You have plenty of room with a 35 and this wheel offset.
@@Ali_Mansour_Editor so you mean with the Jeep like really fully loaded inside and outside, and then fully flexed and turned with 35's on stock, its still wouldn't matter?
@@dramzzzcookzzz4403 The axle is still going to stop at the same point no matter what since the bump stops are in a fixed location. A 35 or a 37 will clear without issue out back so long as you are running a similar backspacing/offset as I am. Up front, the big rubbing point is the front bumper. If you have an aftermarket or stock one that is a stubby, you are in the clear. The stock plastic one will hit with a 35, but not so much that it’s not a usable setup. I’ll link two of my videos where I test this with my Granite Gladiator.
It wouldn't let me send the links from my personal account, but here they are: ruclips.net/video/w0mXb8Ke8VU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/qAswhxDdxfM/видео.html
You understand this more than I have seen on here. Question - I like these rims... would these rims fit on my gladiator sport s with 35s and a 2.5 lift?
Thanks.
These should work fine like that . If you have the max tow package, I know you’ll be in the clear for sure as those axles are the same width as the ones on my Rubicon. If it does not have the max tow package, the tires might rub the control arms when the steering wheel is fully locked one way or the other.
@@DrivingLine do you have any non max tow package wheel recommendations that are similar style, or would you have some wheel specs for me to look for. I'd imagine I'd only need a few extra mm of offset right?
I’m not saying that these wheels will rub for sure, because I honestly don’t know. I suspect it’ll be very close. A 5 inch backspacing should work for you with a 35x12.50.
looks like a negative 18 offset thats what mine are they look the same offset
Can I do this on a stock 21 jeep gladiator Willy’s?
I saw the part where you said you didn't put the AEV wheel in the spare location under the bed. However, did you at least test to see if it would work. I have read some people had some issues fitting the Jeep spare tire carrier into the center hole of the AEV wheels. Any thoughts or experience with this?
I have tested with the AEV Borah Gladiator wheel, which I believe has the same center opening. It does work, but it's harder to pull the mounting foot through since it is a very tight fit. The factory steel spare wheel has a larger opening in the center making it easier for the foot of the spare tire carrier to move in and out. Though the AEV opening is smaller, you can still pass it through.
@@DrivingLine Awesome! Thank you so much for the reply and the incredibly insightful video! Well done!
What are the lightest wheels for the Gladiator to run 35s? Do you think anyone really needs to run more than 35s and a 2inch lift?
I’m not sure on the lightest wheel. There are just so many options. If you truly want to take your Gladiator off-road, the a taller 3 to 4 lift and at least 37s will help tremendously. A two inch with 35s is still an improvement over stock for sure.
Can you please tell me... is the gladiator in the video lifted or has the front been leveled out?
It's completely stock in the this video. No level or lift.
How much taller did the Jeep get? Did any one catch that? Just curious…
About 2 inches over stock if I remember correctly.
Have you done the TSB steering gear box change?
No. I don't have a crazy amount of play in my steering. I've seen others that are much worse. If it becomes a problem, I will take it in for sure.
- Ali Mansour
17" by 8.5" & 35" rim & tire I like chrome or billet aluminum old school look but #s seems sound.
I am going to use lightest Dana 60s front & rear so not going to use 5 lug, want truck max tow & hauling & bead lock capable fine too.
Did you have to upgrade to different gear ratio?
No. The stock 4.10 gears work great with 35s.
The 2 battery AGM set up from Genesis could give Me my hybrid tech on the cheap Gold package & Platinum would come w/dual lithium batteries & 240 volt alternator, instead of tow rated alternator. It's plug in option on 240 volt system. It is there as aid free launch no gas below 25mph, then switches back to gas w/29/30 mph being bit of both range. It's only $520 full retail & in truck/jeep it will b cheaper bc u won't hve bs jeep system.